00:01:12 hmm how about converging the stat up potions into one that ups them all 00:01:16 then it'd be useful for all characters 00:01:26 temporary not mutation I mean 00:01:35 You are awesome (+1 Str Int Dex). 00:01:36 oh 00:01:56 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 00:02:01 ditching might if str manages to become actually useful 00:02:05 the +1 stat mutation potions would be a lot better if they added to the stat but not as a mutation 00:02:25 they're more of a pain than anything now 00:02:29 yes they would but then there would be scumming 00:02:38 although a stat *shuffling* potion would be neat 00:02:53 no actually that'd also lead to perverse behaviour 00:03:33 just make them permanent but more rare 00:03:33 no permanent stat effects from potions, thanks 00:03:39 especially not uniformly good ones 00:03:48 then I'd rather just be rid of them 00:03:55 yeah, i'd be fine with that 00:03:57 they're rare-ish and supposed to be good but actually just suck 00:03:59 they are pretty boring at the moment 00:04:04 people would just scum pan for ziggurats and keep doing the first 10 levels for stat potions 00:04:36 worse with nemelex 00:46:38 Freed slave corpse naming off (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1239) by MrMisterMonkey 01:23:12 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:33:21 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 01:33:33 hi 01:50:12 by: hai 02:12:23 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:17:57 Morning! 02:18:31 good morning 02:21:29 http://j883376.mirror.waffleimages.com/waffleimages/files/7f/7ff5f1864f262f3c28bef49f5cc30ddcba600454.png 02:22:34 syllogism: wat 02:22:37 where is that from 02:23:05 dwarf fortress, the new combat system needs some tweaking 02:23:08 also http://i44.tinypic.com/2e4kuhz.jpg 02:26:05 I liked the crossbow bolts that cut people in half 02:26:58 That was fixed though... seems there are still some issues :P 02:28:19 I'm waiting for the merge for the interface fixes before engaging 02:30:31 now that it has pure text mode, I was contemplating putting it up on my server 02:30:41 ...if I had the resources to run it 02:30:47 haha right 02:31:04 does it really have a pure text mode, haven't been paying attention 02:31:39 dwarf fortress: where lack of text mode is actually irrelevant on the resource profile 02:32:37 40d# has textmode http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=49921.0 02:35:19 hah, also DX10 shader mode 02:41:22 I'd never really looked into dwarf fortress. 02:41:25 But Jesus H. Christ. 02:41:30 This game is complex. 02:42:48 * Madtrixr is in awe of dwarf fortress's complexity. 02:46:50 ixtli: the unofficial changelog is hilarious http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AT8EQVUjrv96ZGc5cnBwOHZfMjgyY3FzZHFtanA&hl=en 02:47:07 (this is for the version that just came out) 02:48:11 wait is this real 02:48:11 ? 02:48:21 Holy crap. 02:49:07 yes 02:49:59 yo 02:51:58 I've seen a game (Arkadia, a polish MUD) where you often have 3-4 line combat messages for a single blow. And that's definitely not a good idea. 02:52:51 and they got the grammar and capitalization right, unlike DF on this screenshot 02:53:01 Was there any reaction in ##cra3wl? 02:53:12 still, realistic combat messages are good if they're not overdone 02:53:50 it's a sandbox game, and the combat messages are pretty entertaining even in adventure mode 02:53:57 they should really weight the combat messages by severity 02:54:08 like, if it gets stuck in the wound, not print that it breaks the skin, or whatever 02:54:10 due: didn't see any 02:54:49 syllogism: SA? 02:55:14 "lion melted fat spatter" -- hah 02:55:46 due: no 02:56:54 "What the fuck? I just started a new mummy death knight of that slow god and on level 5 of the dungeon a lich and executioner just squished me" 02:57:13 "just started" 02:57:26 sounds like he started a few 100k turns ago 02:58:29 -!- by has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:58:48 syllogism: where was this lich 02:58:55 no idea 02:58:58 I mean the post 02:59:03 SA 02:59:18 aww 02:59:33 aw 02:59:40 oh well, we got some funny comments. 03:00:01 due: you didn't post enough places 03:00:05 no rgrm for a start 03:00:24 yeah 03:05:10 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 03:06:34 * Madtrixr is reading the DF unofficial changelog. 03:06:43 * Madtrixr just reads the first part. 03:06:57 * Madtrixr is speechless. 03:09:22 Pretty much. 03:09:36 Whatever I'm just gonna hack on crawl. 03:09:41 That shit looks ... scary. 03:09:45 Is it oss? 03:14:21 yes 03:14:28 wait, crawl? 03:14:30 df is not 03:15:30 Yeah df is freeware I guess. 03:15:55 Anyway their dev schedule is frightening. 03:15:57 "Underground is currently where the stone and boring stuff and occasionally something else is. There needs to be more something else and less boring and stone, though stone might be bored." 03:16:31 it's just one guy but he has been doing it fulltime for a few years 03:16:39 well he has some help now 03:16:42 How does he... you know... live? 03:16:53 donations, he gets 2k-4k a month 03:16:57 Wow. 03:16:59 Nice. 03:17:24 There is a lot scattered in here about the threat of a random poem generator. 03:18:38 O_o Damn. 03:21:33 -!- by has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:24:50 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 03:56:20 syllogism: Thanks for the changelog, I was looking around for one the other day. :) 04:05:32 as a challenge, I started a melee fighter and wore armor 04:05:41 I can now not hit kobolds 04:05:46 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 04:13:32 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 04:14:51 sorear: I think it'd be fine if you can't hit kobolds but they can't hurt you either 04:15:55 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:16:24 by: it's only +1AC relative to light armor, and it doesn't make up for the difference in offense /at all/ 04:16:40 yes 04:17:14 as it pains me to admit it, I think the "0.6 is too hard" people may be on to something 04:17:29 the armour changes are definitely badly balanced early game 04:17:54 but I'd rather there was a meaningful difference early game than making ring mail similar to leather armour 04:17:55 I'm killing nagas with 5 stones. 04:18:13 But I have braces of archery and a nice slling. 04:19:21 -!- Spads has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:21:01 sorear: I felt that even with an XL 13 or so crusader, switching from leather armour to ring mail really hurt melee performance 04:21:33 ??aevp 04:21:33 aevp[1/1]: Adjusted body armour evasion penalty. Affects spell success, melee accuracy and {attack speed}. Its value is [base_penalty + max(0, 3*base_penalty - str)] * [45 - armour_skill]/45. 04:21:52 maybe aevp just needs to be quadratic instead of linear in base_penalty 04:22:53 iterating over enums is a pain 04:30:11 -!- Giomancer has joined ##crawl-dev 04:30:43 I wonder, should we define http://sprunge.us/ARBU for each enum we want to iterate over? 04:31:26 -!- Giomancer has quit [Client Quit] 04:34:43 How's that supposed to work? 04:35:17 due: I'd like to be able to do "for (stat_type s = STAT_STR; s < NUM_STATS; ++s)" 04:35:27 by: that *would* be nice. 04:35:54 currently, we do "for (int i = 0; i < NUM_STATS; ++i)", then either cast to stat_type or lose the information that i is really of type stat_type 04:36:31 yes 04:45:45 0.6: where defeating a random kobold on D:1 necessitates emergency quaffing 04:46:05 @whereis sorear 04:46:05 sorear the Chopper (L6 KeCr) dead on D:4 on 2010-03-26 after 3958 turns. 04:46:09 !whereis sorear 04:46:10 sorear the Skirmisher (L2 DSCr) is currently on D:2 after 1612 turns. 04:46:34 sorear: your crusaders are wearing the first ring mail they find? 04:46:46 by: no, I stopped when I realized it was suicide 04:46:51 now they're going dodging 04:47:01 I'm actually trying to win now... I'm even playing a @goodchar 04:47:18 I think it's ok if wearing a ring mail without armour skill is problematic 04:47:26 I don't 04:47:34 ring mail is the beginning of the line 04:48:00 if it's never possible to wear ring mail in the real world, the only way to bootstrap Armor is to head to the temple and 010000. 04:48:05 with a full xp pool 04:48:18 (passive Armor training still exists right? if not, you need a manual) 04:48:19 I'm not saying it's ok to be impossible 04:48:37 but having a noticeable effect on melee is ok 04:48:50 agree 04:48:53 that said, what do you think about making AEVP quadratic in base penalty? 04:49:03 could work 04:49:11 maybe make AC sub-linear 04:54:22 is there any document explaining how the new apts work? 04:54:25 (in the help or something) 04:55:20 cbus: doesn't ?% say something? 04:55:25 no idea 04:55:30 don't have a session to CDO currently 04:56:51 well, ?% is the same as aptitudes.txt or whatever 05:09:21 Monsters, on the other hand, become completely unkillable in chain 05:10:55 yes there is 05:19:31 I think DSCr is beyond me. 05:20:41 today's argument for why DG sucks: "Hu can fix their stats with Chei" 05:20:51 personally I wonder why DG has 110 at everything 05:21:00 to me it seems like they should be /good/ at everything 05:21:39 I had fun with DGCr recently (note that they have ~120 aptitudes in master) 05:21:59 well since there are plans to make DG more interesting, it's pretty pointless to tweak their apts at this point 05:35:44 Tame Beasts - You cannot memorise or cast this spell because you are a mummy. 05:35:50 is there any particular reason for that I'm not seeing? 05:42:08 no scumming for permanent friendly beasts? 05:42:09 That's pointless, other people can scum for permafriendlies. 05:42:09 a regular character could amass a death yak army just in one quick trip through lair anyway 05:42:09 myuzinn: yes, but then you can haul them off to Slime and get a dragon army 05:42:09 not a quick trip, it takes forever to tame one unless your spell power is very high 05:42:09 which isn't a mummy specific thing 05:42:09 eeh 05:42:09 anyway, the restriction is ancient and fairly arbitrary 05:42:09 I doubt I'll use the spell anyway :p 05:42:09 * Madtrixr is trying to figure out some sort of reason of why this is... 05:42:11 ...and my brain is starting to hurt 05:42:55 mummies not being able to summon Horrible Things was only change 4 major versions after they became temporary 05:43:01 *changed 05:44:46 !lg Atomjack char=DESu ktyp=winning x=cv 05:44:46 1. [cv=0.1] Atomjack the Convoker (L18 DESu), worshipper of Vehumet, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2007-03-16, with 507506 points after 21070 turns and 6:17:09. 05:51:29 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:52:12 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:52:12 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS development channel! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Ashenzari source: http://github.com/doy/crawlbot 05:58:36 Sound effects do not work (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1240) by ledtim 06:00:09 03by * rad8b24f662f9 10/crawl-ref/source/output.cc: Use you.stat_loss directly in output.cc. 06:00:10 03by * ra36ee661b320 10/crawl-ref/source/player-stats.cc: Include Che boost in stat_modifier(). 06:00:12 03by * re44b5cd9f1a7 10/crawl-ref/source/player-stats.cc: Make Jiyva stat shuffling go through modify_stat. 06:00:15 03by * r56c68f9632f3 10/crawl-ref/source/player-stats.cc: Move stat death detection to _handle_stat_change. 06:00:18 03by * r50cd7c2a1083 10/crawl-ref/source/ (11 files): Replace most uses of modify_stat by notify_stat_change. 06:00:26 03by * re890227f44e7 10/crawl-ref/source/ (16 files): Store base stats instead of maximal stats. 06:00:39 yay! 06:01:16 <3333 06:03:43 ♥♡♥♡ 06:05:31 it's likely stat death prevention checks are now broken 06:05:47 stat death prevention checks never made sense 06:05:53 and have been semi-broken for ages 06:08:50 sorear: I fixed a good deal of them quite recently 06:09:33 but indeed, now looks like a good time to do that stat death removal you want so much 06:09:57 (I for one think removing it is not the best idea, but it looks like I'm in minority) 06:10:13 yes, my plan was to clean the stat code up so someone can do that without going insane / messing things up even more 06:15:00 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:57 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:18 Pan levels are supposed to have a 1 in 16 chance of an exit, each 06:21:32 would someone with more sanity reserves than me please find out why they don't 06:21:47 are you sure they don't 06:21:49 I suspect one of our fixups is killing them 06:22:06 hmm. I found an amulet of stasis, for the first time ever. 06:23:49 crash on pressing # or % while playing Vampire (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1241) by S2im 06:24:36 sixth level had a gate out 06:25:25 another within <10 tries 06:26:10 and again, seems fine 06:27:35 I just generated all four unique runes and about ~20 more levels with no gates out in my wizmode 06:28:51 my build is two days old 06:31:02 Tried to update CDO, and Updating submodules fails: 06:31:10 fatal: reference is not a tree: 46871e6ab529f7643668f22ec7e97441edd2e2f7 06:31:10 Unable to checkout '46871e6ab529f7643668f22ec7e97441edd2e2f7' in submodule path 'crawl-ref/source/contrib/sqlite' 06:33:33 Keskitalo: ah, probably pushed my fixed contrib/sqlite accidentally again 06:33:48 neunon has been sitting on that bug for two weeks 06:34:51 03by * r94a24e6fd254 10/crawl-ref/source/contrib/sqlite: Restore contribs/sqlite to its old broken state. 06:35:02 Thanks! 06:35:08 buggy! 06:37:28 3 gates out within the first 7 levels on fresh build 06:40:19 Master branch on CDO updated to: 0.7.0-a0-973-g94a24e6 (20.0) 06:40:42 Aargh, why do people with two lines of things to say write an essay on the wiki. 06:44:45 Because. 06:46:37 I did have an easy game with that HEAM. At least bows are very fast with high skill. That's good, and it makes it decidedly different from Conjurations. But I'm getting convinved it should be more expensive to train. I should try with a build that has a worse apt. :) 06:47:24 !lg Keskitalo 06:47:27 115. evktalo the Master Archer (L27 HEAM), worshipper of Fedhas, escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2010-04-02, with 1487585 points after 164649 turns and 17:04:36. 06:48:22 Keskitalo: if we just put a multiplier on ranged skills, do you think early game will be too hard? 06:48:57 No unicode glyphs? (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1242) by Kyrris 06:49:30 by: No idea.. AM is very strong with all the spells in the beginning. 06:50:12 Perhas I'll try a DSHu :) 06:50:26 Master branch on CDO updated to: 0.7.0-a0-973-g94a24e6 (20.0) 06:50:37 Looks like I forgot to paste that here. :) 06:51:27 Whee, selecting with arrow keys 06:52:18 does Cryptic really think reduced LOS balances the stealth boost from nightstalker? reduced LOS sounds like the really strong part of the mutation 06:52:55 does it also reduce monster LOS? 06:53:05 yes, as far as I know 06:53:29 hm.. it would probably make more sense if it did not. 06:53:36 from the balance point of view, that is 06:55:26 !lg * race=ds cv=0.7-a s=ktyp 06:55:28 820 games for * (race=ds cv=0.7-a): 479x mon, 209x quitting, 77x beam, 36x pois, 4x trap, 4x leaving, 3x cloud, 2x winning, 2x draining, 2x wild magic, 1x disintegration, 1x clumsiness 06:55:55 A big noooooooooo to asymmetric LOS. :) 06:59:59 line wrapping of the species description doesn't seem to work 07:01:25 * ortoslon continues Keskitalo's "oooooo" when he runs out of breath 07:05:46 by: it's not there ;) 07:05:51 aka it's not written 07:05:59 ah 07:06:15 I'm one-shotting snakes at XL:3 on D:2 with Bows 4. 07:07:13 ortoslon: Fresh trunk tiles build! http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/ 07:08:25 Okay, lets try this ring mail on then. :] 07:08:45 Spines <3 07:10:11 How about armour slowing down attacks instead of preventing them? That would work for ranged weapons too, which don't get such a penalty, right? 07:10:33 it does slow down attacks 07:10:38 melee, at least 07:10:49 Oh, okay. 07:13:28 I wonder if it's possible to use fire and icestorm with nightstalker without constantly blasting yourself 07:13:45 you can probably shift-fire it 07:14:09 you should be able to shoot outside of los, atleast accroding to Cryptic 07:14:23 but you can't target outside los 07:14:36 though I wonder if we shouldn't just allow that 07:19:44 ??nightstalker 07:19:44 I don't have a page labeled nightstalker in my learndb. 07:22:11 -!- hotsun has joined ##crawl-dev 07:24:19 sleepytime 07:28:16 is shadow creatures supposed to summon plants in hive? 07:28:24 pine 07:28:30 whoops 07:28:36 -!- hotsun has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!] 07:30:36 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:34:45 !tell cryptic nightstalker only gives -2 LOS reduction at level 3 07:34:46 by: OK, I'll let cryptic know. 07:38:58 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:47:40 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:52:14 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:22 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:54:18 night stalker is one mutation late (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1243) by rob 08:04:31 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:05:31 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:09:56 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:30 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:21:08 did Elf ever had a rune? The code contains quite a few references to it. 08:21:29 yes 08:27:00 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:18 -!- by has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:31:18 -!- by_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:38:23 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:40:49 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:41:57 -!- by_ is now known as by 09:04:41 I get an error message when starting a new game on CDO (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1244) by rkd 09:13:59 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 09:18:02 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:19:46 make install fails: strip utility on Mac OS X has different -s option (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1245) by hesselink 09:28:10 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 09:29:50 Can't inscribe rods (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1246) by OG17 09:53:19 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:53:30 does the hell effect fix in https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1238 also cover zot trap shrapnel? That does/did the same thing with making allies hostile. FR's closed 09:58:01 -!- OG17 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:58:54 -!- OG17 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:35 -!- hotsun has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:23 -!- Amonchakad has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:24 -!- hotsun has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client] 10:29:03 -!- OG17 has left ##crawl-dev 11:05:13 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:06:49 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:44 has anyone seen an interesting use of arrows of reaping, either monster or player? 11:14:58 Use them to create zombies and have them fight at your side? 11:15:18 by quivering them for the finishing shot? 11:15:25 have you actually used them for this purpose? 11:15:51 Uh....oh wait, you said arrows 11:15:55 I used darts sometimes 11:15:57 but not too ften 11:16:03 often* 11:16:10 I was thinking of missiles in general 11:16:23 I think missiles of reaping should be removed 11:16:38 Well, the fact that they only work if the monster leaves a corpse makes them a bit unreliable 11:16:42 I had an idea to use reaping while in death channel, instant two allies for one kill 11:16:51 but all zombify effects have the same condition 11:17:11 st_: if that works, it sounds like a bug 11:17:22 by: not really 11:17:43 does death channel leave corpses? 11:17:48 pretty sure yes 11:17:55 it does yeah 11:17:57 ah, then it's not a bug 11:19:15 it's not hard to learn animate dead if you're interested in zombies -- don't see why this should be duplicated as a ranged combat effect 11:19:37 because the former requires spellcasting skills and a book of necromancy? 11:19:55 while darts of reaping are often found in the very first levels 11:25:26 remove missiles of reaping (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1247) by rob 11:27:06 what if a trog user wants zombies! 11:27:21 trog users don't need zombies 11:27:33 or they can wield zonguldrok or whatever 11:29:29 -!- Butch has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:40 scythes can get the reaping brand too, right? 11:31:48 (but nobody uses scythes) 11:31:53 :( 11:35:27 how about, making scythes non-terrible! *gasp* 11:35:38 blasthemy! 11:36:45 i approve of anything that would inadvertantly buff sigmund. 11:39:03 Sigmund can banish. 11:39:53 fedhas needs another special message for when you're killed by a reaping weapon 11:43:10 03Keskitalo * rd97be7234315 10/crawl-ref/source/abl-show.cc: Increase the piety cost of Slouch. 11:44:56 hmm no snarkage today 11:48:09 There is a perceivable lack of snarkage of the green persuasion in the air indeed. 11:49:08 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:55:36 make shopping list use '$' instead of '@' in shops (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1248) by rob 12:05:07 03Keskitalo * r44811a228fc6 10/crawl-ref/source/shopping.cc: Implement 1248: make shopping list use '$' instead of '@' in shops. 12:05:29 Clearly it should use £ 12:06:46 !tell Twinge Trapdoor spiders aren't zombifiable, they probably should be right? 12:06:46 Keskitalo: OK, I'll let Twinge know. 12:23:27 Keskitalo: thanks! 12:25:55 No problem. :) 12:26:53 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:27:40 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:29:44 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 12:32:44 -!- Amonchakad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:33:16 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:33:46 03dolorous * r56764605f022 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Add minor cosmetic fix. 12:35:03 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:25 morning all 12:35:29 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:40:14 -!- Siber2 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:38 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:46 Evenings 12:43:19 -!- Siber has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:48:33 dpeg: Hello! 12:49:36 Hi! 12:49:50 Keskitalo: the Zig FR explodes, for no particular reason :) 12:50:05 xom blew it up 12:50:47 this is a stupid question, but do amphibious creatures actually increase speed in water or just movement speed? 12:51:12 hydras etc 12:51:47 stabwound: I think it's just move speed 12:51:51 @? hydra 12:51:51 hydra (09D) | Speed: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 13 | Health: 39-104 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Damage: 18 per head | Flags: amphibious | Res: 06magic(52), 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 1214. 12:52:58 Yeah, nowadays. My impression is it used to increase action speed too. 12:53:08 dpeg: Yeah, fun and easy to brainstorm. :) 12:53:10 " hydra (D) | Speed: 10 (swim: 60%)" 12:53:29 dpeg: I have a short Hells brainstorm page coming up soon. 12:55:22 Keskitalo: nice! 12:55:33 Keskitalo: but I don't really like teddybear :) 12:55:43 Teddybears should stay Xom's specialty. 12:55:59 randart fruit 12:56:08 dpeg: I know I looked at it primarily out of curiosity as to why it's so huge, and then ended up commenting :) 12:56:51 myuzinn: there is no connection whatsoever between ziggurats (in game or historical) and fruits. We can do better. 12:58:00 randart staircases! 12:58:27 say there's an altar to a random god, give the god a random name, never tell the player it's just xom 12:59:14 the player would guess anyway 12:59:48 you /could/ make randart gods by just picking a list of powers at random, but I don't see how that would be interesting or a good idea 12:59:53 dpeg: That is fine. :) I'm only really attached to the "Ziggurat souvenir" theme. 13:00:07 I'd rather like ziggurats to be infinite, in depth and difficulty 13:00:50 i think that might be a better option 13:01:20 is there a limit to level sizes in crawl? 13:01:27 pointless brought that up yesterday too 13:01:30 myuzinn: yeah 13:01:34 sounds ok, but there is already the abyss and pand for infinite levels so its repeating the same mechanic 13:01:36 you'd run into that limit eventually 13:01:51 but that'd be a fairly big limit 13:01:54 yeah 13:02:32 I think it's important to have some sort of landmark or goal; no one would go to pan if it had no runes, for example 13:02:34 purge: well, the abyss is different already, and i'd really prefer to see changes to pan as well 13:03:10 nrook: seeing how far you can get is a goal that i'm sure people will be okay with trying for 13:03:11 I regularly miss the labyrinth welcome message... 13:03:13 (: 13:05:07 doy: indeed, but that's only with extremely powerful characters; moderately powerful characters might go in out of curiosity, but it might be nice for them to have some sort of goal they could reach and then leave 13:05:39 nrook: moderately powerful characters already can't reach past the first couple zig levels anyway 13:05:50 putting a prize at zig:27 isn't going to help that 13:05:58 -!- stabwound has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:06:20 doy: that's true 13:06:21 anyone know where the labyrinth changing code sits? 13:06:27 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 13:07:14 by: that was our original plan, but it turned out we're too bad or players are too good. 13:07:34 it's definitely not that players are too good :) 13:07:38 (: 13:07:46 ais523: random gods is pure roguelike essence. Not sure you can see that if you're only used Nethack gods, though. 13:08:09 dpeg: Crawl's gods always struck me as un-Crawl-like for being too predictable 13:08:16 put a mysterious stranger in zig:27 called "Zot", who tells the player 13:08:24 "go to bed already, sheesh" 13:08:44 ais523: aha 13:08:59 ais523: Crawl is renowned for gifting gods to the RL world, but okay. 13:09:26 in particular, I'm confused about Sif Muna, whose gifts seem to be counter to Crawl's philosophy in almost every conceivable way 13:09:45 on the other hand, I'm not sure if you can go pure random/uncontrollable and have a playable game 13:09:45 ais523: Her gifts are not deterministic anymore. 13:09:55 dpeg: were they ever? I thought that was Vehumet 13:10:11 but it's deterministic that the gifts are spellbooks 13:10:19 :S 13:10:25 I've thought on occasion that randomised spells would be amusing 13:10:26 how else in Crawl can you guarantee getting items from a particular class? 13:10:32 umm... baileys, I suppose 13:10:34 and runes at branch ends 13:11:01 labyrinth change breaks LOS (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1249) by rob 13:11:06 ais523: trog only gifts weapons, is that uncrawl-like too? 13:11:35 doy: in a way; I think Sif's worse, though, in that you have a very high chance of getting particular common spells pretty quickly with her 13:11:43 Mephitic Cloud, for instance, because it's in loads of books 13:11:52 ais are you seriously complaining that there are repeating patterns 13:12:11 the books are often random, it can take ages to get meph cloud 13:12:36 ais523: have you ever played as sif long enough to get meph cloud as a book gift? 13:12:38 myuzinn: I'm not complaining 13:12:44 ais523: to be honest, I don't think you have understood what Crawl-like means (to us, that is). 13:12:48 doy: no, I've done it even without Sif though 13:13:03 dpeg: I don't either; I keep trying to observe patterns in Crawl devteam opinion and getting confused 13:13:04 I wish the books on the floor wouldn't repeat so annoyingly 13:13:17 nothing better than geting 3 book of powers when you worship vehumeth 13:13:56 and I try to go by the published essays and opinion articles, but they contradict my observations 13:21:53 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:10 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:26:57 dpeg: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:branch:hells ! 13:29:17 Keskitalo: yay 13:33:02 by: do we have an idea where all these crashes are coming fromß 13:38:42 Keskitalo: great input for the wiki! 13:38:52 -!- xardas-3 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:39:27 Thanks! :) 13:42:10 so many not-0.7 agenda mails... 13:47:18 -!- Siber2 is now known as Siber 13:48:27 dpeg: I've tracked down one or two 13:50:10 by: is there a common reason for them? 13:50:16 no 13:50:19 Also, why didn't we find them when testing? 13:50:37 what testing? 13:50:48 the entire 0.6 branch 13:50:53 We played 0.6-rc quite a lot. 13:51:06 Everyone played on a server? 13:51:14 ah, you're talking about 0.6 crashes? not aware of any 13:51:34 greensnark mentioned a couple 13:51:38 don't know what they are though 13:52:48 they're not on mantis as far as I can tell 13:53:18 yeah, i'm pretty sure greensnark has just been noticing core files building up on cao 13:53:30 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:branch:pan#evktalo_s_pandemonium_ueberhowl 13:54:00 dpeg: You'll like that one too. 13:54:28 by: does that labyrinth BR you just posted have to do with being able to see through walls? I just had that, not sure if it's the same thing 13:54:35 st_: yes 13:55:25 Keskitalo: I already like the title :) 13:55:52 Ah, so all the crashes are 0.7 bugs? What a relief, wasn't aware of that. 13:56:12 dpeg: not all 13:56:16 just all the reported ones 13:56:17 (: 13:57:00 it's not a bug if it's not reported, in some sense 13:57:30 by: yes, I agree 13:57:47 -!- myuzinn has quit [] 13:58:10 on 0.7 we might be seeing more crashes because assertions were enabled generally 13:59:12 though the two crashes I've looked at were new bugs 13:59:46 looks like xiberia didn't report his, the message was *ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 754 failed 13:59:47 by: thanks for all the care 14:00:17 ah, did he get it in console, too? only saw that on tiles so far 14:00:24 yes 14:01:00 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:00 I am not sure what to do with all those 0.7 mails. 14:01:17 tanksley, etc? I suggest to ignore 14:01:30 Samuel's is a good one... 14:01:43 @chei and slouch and piety: cap the speed of piety gain 14:01:51 (chei doesn't like your haste to gain favor) 14:01:52 by: Haran and Darshan both scolded at me when I complained about William. 14:02:16 who is William 14:02:51 oh tanksley 14:02:57 William Tanksley, I think he did IVAN? 14:03:06 or Omega 14:03:20 Haran and Darshan have a lot of respect for him. 14:04:05 dpeg: you can have respect and still not reply, no? 14:06:40 TGWi: Wiping the Vaults:8 guards in debug mode, I think the current cost is ok even while you gain piety from the kills - it's a solid net loss now. 14:06:52 oh, cool 14:08:20 probably depends somewhat on your current piety 14:08:26 as the higher it is, the less piety you gain 14:10:06 The cost of a Slouch seemed to be 8-12, while the gain per kill around 0-2. You need 4-5 Slouches to wipe of the guards (IIRC), which number 24. 14:10:38 by: yes! 14:11:10 Keskitalo: many thanks for stepping up and making that change. 14:12:57 No problem. The way you can wipe out the guards is still frightening, but at least you need to plan to build the piety up and spend it there. And the drawback in movement is awesome (to play). 14:13:19 the guards arent much of a threat anyway 14:13:32 That is true of course.. 14:13:46 (they really need to stay on V:8 :)) 14:14:23 Keskitalo: add that to the Vaults wiki. 14:14:36 Or I make an FR about "guardian" monsters? 14:15:31 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 14:15:51 The good tactic (I think) in Zot:5 is to spare Slouch for orbs of fire and electric golems. The tradeoff is that you can only Slouch so much before you lose the option to Step Out of Time.. 14:15:58 dpeg: FR sounds like a good idea! 14:16:18 zot 5 is scary with chei 14:16:24 at least if you aren't a conjurer 14:17:32 Keskitalo: do you know offhand if that "split enchantments" FR was moved to the wiki? 14:18:17 my VpAs' Zot:5 didn't seem scary, but I guess stealth does that 14:19:18 I'm having pretty bad hunger problems with chei, but I also have fast metabolism 14:19:25 well a summoning lich is all it takes 14:19:47 stabwound: yes, should have probably fixed chei hunger rates for the release 14:19:51 I slouched the liches as well as orbs and golems :) 14:20:00 !whereis stabwound 14:20:01 Stabwound the Bludgeoner (L15 DSGl), a worshipper of Cheibriados, is currently on Lair:1 after 46401 turns. 14:20:09 maybe it makes chei more interesting, but it's misleading how it says he slows your metabolism 14:20:16 but you still consume more than you would normally 14:20:22 i thought we fixed that? 14:20:29 isn't hunger per turn? 14:20:32 by: no 14:20:44 nothing really is anymore 14:20:54 is this yet another of these topics that we have huge discussions about and then forget to actually implement the results? 14:20:54 or was that reverted 14:21:00 doy: probably 14:21:10 i'm pretty sure i remember someone fixing it though 14:21:11 the hunger is definitely absurd with 5 pieces of slow equip 14:21:18 although i could be wrong 14:21:26 maybe it's not in 0.6? 14:21:27 stabwound: that's like fast metabolism 3 14:21:46 stabwound: how many levels of fast metab do you have? 14:22:01 1 14:22:08 I can't see any time dependence in the code 14:22:15 d79e69eab0f3 14:22:38 player_hunger_rate is fed directly into make_hungry world_reacts 14:22:51 yes, it was fixed 14:23:01 ah, it was never pulled into 0.6 14:23:05 that's the issue 14:23:10 i think 14:23:12 >:-| 14:23:23 yeah 14:23:38 will have to remember that one too for 0.6.1 14:23:39 (: 14:24:15 doy: why not apply to stone_soup-0.6 instead of remembering? 14:24:42 i suppose d: 14:26:05 I'm dying for a gourmand amulet at this point 14:26:05 heh 14:26:29 the nice thing about chei is you can actually afford to use your jewellery slots for stuff like c.tele 14:26:44 yeah 14:26:58 c.tele and blink has been a huge help 14:27:08 seems as if the Ench split is not on the wiki yet 14:27:18 code name immense 14:28:08 dpeg: Looks like it's not, unless you count Eronarn's https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:magic:system:immense which looks unfinished, and is Eronarn's. 14:28:16 Heh. 14:28:34 by: Yeah, stealth was very very good to have. :) 14:28:44 stabwound: Gourmand was very very good to have too. :) 14:31:50 is there still a little loot vault in the new hive end? 14:32:07 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:32:13 haven't seen one 14:32:28 -!- xardas-3 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100214235838]] 14:32:49 stabwound: they all have loot, but not in a vault 14:32:52 Is there any obstruction to changing the not-the-HUD section according to the FR I made? 14:32:58 oh, ok 14:33:55 your hive end probably has a bunch of pillars you've to dig into 14:34:23 yeah I'm downloading the source to cheat :P 14:42:07 A noble goal; randomize things like that so they can't be sourcedived :) 14:42:37 that one's randomized enough I think 14:44:10 Keskitalo: this is best done by obfuscation. I am pretty sure that some of my vaults are unreadable for most people :) 14:47:21 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:55:15 Which "guardian" monsters are? Any besides "orb g.", "vault g.", "g. serpent"? 14:56:20 g. mummy 14:56:22 I think that's it, though 14:57:03 thanks 14:59:53 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 15:01:38 Make "guardians" special (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1250) by dpeg 15:06:17 dpeg: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:effect:held_and_restrained 15:06:25 dpeg: Thanks for the FR! 15:06:39 Keskitalo: not much content in there, I am running out of time and ideas. :( 15:07:04 No problem, it's a good stub. Good that you point out the mummies and serpents! 15:07:18 dpeg: The above wiki page includes constriction! 15:08:36 <3 constriction 15:10:25 Okay, so I assume that people either like or don't care about the reshuffling of the not-the-HUD. Time to find a coder, or even do it myself :) 15:11:06 That FR needs tiles perspective. :) 15:11:38 dpeg: well, i'm obviously in favor 15:11:39 : 15:11:42 (: 15:12:20 Ok, I take a break now. 15:13:32 doy: hey, I heard you can code =) 15:13:57 Keskitalo: yes, there is no shortage of things that want attention... good to stop sometime. 15:14:26 the two paw bearhug is a blatant rip from NetHack 15:14:28 or maybe D&D 15:14:31 doy: The change wouldn't be large, but cool (less work than the Ctrl-O overhaul, I think). Do we want to finalise the design via email? 15:14:40 sorear: it is a rip from reality :) 15:16:03 sorear: the standard D&D rule is that if many sorts of animal monsters hit with both paws in a round, they get to either rip the opponent apart for massive damage ("rend", for lions, etc), or grab the opponent for free ("improved grab", for pretty much any animal that constricts and has claws) 15:16:16 Keskitalo: is this from some SF FR? 15:17:34 Keskitalo: good page, once more. 15:17:47 Keskitalo: There was some content for naga constriction somewhere, probably on SF. 15:19:46 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:20:10 -!- Fangorn has joined ##crawl-dev 15:31:48 Simulacra and Spectral tiles pack (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1251) by Porkchop 15:32:14 -!- by has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:38:24 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:46:57 Unable to post to the wiki: resource temporarily unavailable 15:49:20 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 15:49:58 details, sorear? 15:50:39 Napkin: when I select the "Save" button, I get an error "Resource temporarily unavailable" 15:50:52 I tried a few times, killed the browser, tried again a few times 15:51:04 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=playground:playground 15:51:10 which page, sorear? 15:51:17 because i can't reproduce 15:51:29 dcss:brainstorm:item:throwing_nets 15:51:45 editing the 'Basic concepts' section 15:51:54 by pushing the section bottom [ Edit ] 15:52:48 Hhhrrmmm.. 15:52:55 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:item:throwing_nets#basic_concept 15:53:02 I have no idea 15:53:23 I can edit the playground 15:54:30 did it "load" long trying to save your changes? 15:54:43 maybe really no apache process available 15:54:58 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 15:55:10 it took a few moments yes 15:55:23 I can't save the entire page either - not just a subpage thing 15:56:58 -!- Butch has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:02:01 MaxSpareServers 60 16:02:01 MaxClients 200 16:02:09 40 -> 60; 150 -> 200 16:02:16 no idea what else to do, sorear 16:02:23 keep me posted if it happens a lot? 16:04:56 ok 16:05:30 200 concurrent visitors should not happen often, though 16:12:39 dpeg: Mostly my own I think apart from the constriction stuff, which is from all over the place. I was thinking about slugs and got the goo idea and went from there. 16:13:41 I mailed it to Johanna a few weeks ago when she made the Throwing nets page. 16:13:49 Napkin: it's still reporting 'resource temporarily unavailable'. Is there anything in the logs on this? 16:13:55 * sorear tries another browser 16:15:36 dpeg: The page is lacking the ideas about player constriction at least. 16:15:44 dpeg: Feel free to add, or I can at some point. :) 16:16:50 For now I added the SF links that were in the 0.8 list to the page. 16:17:16 -!- neunon has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:17:28 no, sorear - apart from error codes 301 and 302, only 200s 16:31:13 !tell doy d79e69eab0f3 wasn't pulled into 0.6 because it damages a number of things -- like promoting abusing slow actions akin to the old weapon swap heal, breaking the food:regen consistency present in both 0.5 and 0.6 systems, and so on -- so a near-consensus at the time was it shouldn't be put in 0.6; we didn't care to revert it from 0.7 at the time. We should fix Chei hunger some other way. 16:31:14 Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 16:31:20 !tell doy d79e69eab0f3 wasn't pulled into 0.6 because it damages a number of things -- like promoting abusing slow actions akin to the old weapon swap heal, breaking the food:regen consistency present in both 0.5 and 0.6 systems, and so on -- so a near-consensus at the time was it shouldn't be put in 0.6; we didn't care to revert it from 0.7 at the time. 16:31:20 Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 16:33:08 !tell doy d79e69eab0f3 wasn't pulled into 0.6 because it damages a number of things -- like promoting abusing slow actions akin to the old weapon swap heal, breaking the food:regen consistency present in both 0.5 and 0.6, and so on. 16:33:08 kilobyte: OK, I'll let doy know. 16:33:46 !tell doy A near-consensus at the time was it shouldn't be put in 0.6; we didn't care to revert it from 0.7 at the time. We should fix Chei hunger some other way. 16:33:46 kilobyte: OK, I'll let doy know. 16:34:00 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 16:34:09 Morning everyone 16:34:24 Morning. 16:34:24 due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:34:37 * Cryp71c is just now becoming lucid from Oral Surgeon's crazy anesthesia 16:34:45 !messages 16:34:46 (1/1) Keskitalo said (6h 27m ago): http://bugi.oulu.fi/~evktalo/crawl/the_twins_with_a_twist.png 16:35:10 !tell doy One of possible solutions: decreasing metabolism further could be a yet another effect of wearing multiple ponderosity. 16:35:10 kilobyte: OK, I'll let doy know. 16:35:16 Cryp71c, sounds like a good time to start working on more demonspawn stuff! 16:35:33 -!- Twinge has quit [] 16:35:34 !tell Keskitalo And if either of them kills the other, their flavour changes. :) 16:35:34 due: OK, I'll let Keskitalo know. 16:36:01 due: yeah, it's such a sweet thing to do :p 16:36:04 due: Indeed, I had a berserk Duvessa on my side. :) 16:36:28 Hm, the enchantment should break. 16:36:38 The speech is so nice in that shot. :) 16:37:08 Heh, I need to fix the "current foe" speech, but... lazy. 16:37:12 I can imagine a horrified Dowan, "B-b-but her sword will prevail where my magic fails! AAARGH!" 16:37:41 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 16:38:16 dpeg, was thinking about your powered by death idea last night and had an idea. What if (instead of instant hp-return, which is somewhat lacking in flavour) what if when you kill a monster and a corpse is left behind (so won't work on orbs of fire, for example), for X turns after the kill, so long as you remain within a X-distance path (I as thinkng 8 ish?) your regeneration is highly boosted (stacks for each corpse within that 8- 16:38:16 path distance up to a certain level, determined by a maximum value). As the mut increases, the max regeneration limit rises, as might the turn-right of the regneration. Butchering a corpse cancels the effect from that corpse 16:39:12 Keskitalo: Well, I debated adding a hack that checked the monster's current foe and if it were either twin, adding a new prefix. 16:39:38 dpeg, so the flavour is that you kill monsters and "tap" into their life force on their death, drawing life from their bodies so long as the body is there. It wouldn't automatically make the corpse decay faster, but if tis butchered, the corpse's life "seeps out" and your regen from that corpse stops. 16:40:33 would be kinda cool to do that but instead it drains from open wounds on enemies 16:40:41 as in like, yellow health or lower 16:40:47 would make for cool battle strategies 16:41:06 -!- Smee has joined ##crawl-dev 16:41:29 -!- Moriasc has joined ##crawl-dev 16:49:20 -!- Twinge has quit [] 16:51:45 -!- lorimer has quit [*.net *.split] 16:51:45 -!- jarpiain has quit [*.net *.split] 16:52:20 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 16:52:58 -!- lorimer has joined ##crawl-dev 16:52:58 -!- jarpiain has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:50 -!- Rugxulo has joined ##crawl-dev 17:02:17 !tell Keskitalo Hm, you had a friendly berserk Duvessa? That shoudln't have happened... 17:02:18 due: OK, I'll let Keskitalo know. 17:02:27 tried latest 0.6.0 tiles on XP P4 cpu last night (one w/ Intel gfx that had previously been extremely sluggish), worked almost perfect 17:02:47 Rugxulo: That's awesome to hear! 17:03:29 although I wonder why console + tiles .EXEs aren't bundled anymore 17:05:19 Rugxulo: both builds in one executable? That's definitely not supported. 17:05:49 Rugxulo: albeit having both with different name in the same package is ok 17:06:17 for Windows builds, that would be feasible 17:06:26 for Linux builds, what if you don't have X! 17:06:57 all files with the same name except for the executable are identical 17:07:21 I mean 0.5.2 came with both .EXEs in one .ZIP 17:07:38 so somebody changed it, that's all ;-) 17:09:01 you know what should be changed for 0.7? vault: 1-7 17:09:11 definitely the most boring part of the main game 17:09:54 stabwound: worse than crypt? 17:10:07 stabwound: That was being worked on 17:10:11 stabwound: But it got pushed back 17:10:15 -!- lorimer has quit [*.net *.split] 17:10:15 -!- jarpiain has quit [*.net *.split] 17:10:17 yes, but I don't really count crypt as part of the "main game" 17:10:20 as in the 3 main runes 17:11:01 for one, the monster set is identical with the Dungeon 17:11:25 and I hate the "town" map layout, or whatever you call it 17:11:42 Vaults: 1-7 differ merely by having this layout, yeah. 17:12:59 dpeg's intent is to have all the monters generate inside the rooms. 17:13:11 hmm 17:13:18 And the loot. 17:13:31 -!- lorimer has joined ##crawl-dev 17:15:44 -!- Rugxulo has left ##crawl-dev 17:16:02 -!- jarpiain has joined ##crawl-dev 17:17:36 back 17:18:08 dpeg: Eronarn's proposal for splitting enchantments is on the wiki. 17:18:14 dpeg: and it's the best I''ve seen so far. 17:18:26 -!- ogaz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18:58 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 17:19:03 dpeg scroll up, had 3 ideas about powered by death mut 17:20:24 -!- jarpiain has quit [*.net *.split] 17:22:22 Display relevant aptitudes in item text (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1252) by eyhung 17:23:25 -!- jarpiain has joined ##crawl-dev 17:31:35 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:32:56 -!- Smee has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:16 Cryp71c: the idea for powered by death is interesting. 17:33:43 Cryp71c: I would like it if the power *used up* the corpse. 17:34:13 (And I suggested exactly the same as a replacement for 'p'rayer under blood gods, but got only negative feedback :) 17:35:36 due: thanks. 17:35:42 And hi! 17:36:31 -!- jld has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:37:52 hi! 17:37:52 dpeg: IMO it's good in two cases: 1. if it functions independently of the corpse, or 2. if it uses up the corpse. 17:38:12 And bad if it somehow draws power from the corpse but leaves it intact. 17:38:31 kilobyte: I absolutely agree. 17:38:58 For a DS power, I like 2. a lot, b/c that has an impact on gods. 17:39:33 1. is a lot like the current setting, where you get the HP gain for the plain kill. 17:40:39 dpeg, Alright,well I'll implement it with that in mind. 17:40:57 Got my teeth out today! I was unconcious until about an hour ago 17:43:11 Cryp71c: all seven of them? 17:45:56 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev 17:47:31 Thick Skin DS mutation doesn't seem to work. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1253) by turnerjer 17:48:12 Is there a 0.6 SA thread, btw? 17:49:01 dpeg, seven what? 17:49:01 yeah 17:49:08 dpeg: We got some funny comments on the April 1st joke :) 17:49:21 Cryp71c: seven teeth 17:49:31 dpeg, oh, no 5, my bottom 2 wizdom teeth are still in. 17:49:41 stabwound, due: cool. Once SA is open again, I'll read up :) 17:51:41 what does "locking" a treasure trove do? 17:51:56 makes it permanent and it will ask for some item(s) instead 17:52:20 often something you can't ever get as a 3-runer 17:53:06 stabwound: tell us what your trove asks for, please. 17:53:12 book of annihilations 17:53:16 did you id that book you couldn't read 17:53:17 :) 17:53:22 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 17:53:28 it was in a shop 17:53:32 hey 17:53:32 syllogism: You don't *have* to lock it. 17:53:40 due: yes 17:53:50 I'm still collecting scrolls of fear for my trove :) 17:54:16 Perhaps I'm in a minority, having never won crawl, but I'd appreciate it if the game weren't made harder. I wouldn't mind winning at some point 17:55:26 due: how many of how many? 17:55:46 bmh: just when you think you'd do it, we'll release a harder version :) 17:55:55 -!- eith has quit [] 17:55:56 dpeg: 9 :) 17:56:00 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 17:56:01 0.6 is definitely harder than 0.5 17:56:02 bmh, Crawl is all about experience,it has a lot less to do with luck than most peole argue. 17:56:08 dpeg: I've got... 6 or 7. 17:56:21 Cryp71c: I know, I know 17:56:38 dpeg: I'll win after I rewrite Jiyva's stat shuffling. 17:57:18 !win 17:57:44 !won 17:57:48 Cryp71c has won twice in 1348 games (0.15%): 1xHaAs 1xSpEn 17:57:51 :P 17:57:51 stabwound: it should be easier for some builds 17:58:13 Such as HaHu. 17:58:16 the new uniques make it harder regardless 17:58:25 new uniques and shallower uniques 17:58:25 doy: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 17:58:32 !messages 17:58:33 I lost my last game in YASD. I was standing next to an Executioner and was about to escape, when I walked into an adjacent monster, rather than away 17:58:38 (1/3) kilobyte said (1h 25m 30s ago): d79e69eab0f3 wasn't pulled into 0.6 because it damages a number of things -- like promoting abusing slow actions akin to the old weapon swap heal, breaking the food:regen consistency present in both 0.5 and 0.6, and so on. 17:58:39 !messages 17:58:39 (1/2) kilobyte said (1h 24m 53s ago): A near-consensus at the time was it shouldn't be put in 0.6; we didn't care to revert it from 0.7 at the time. We should fix Chei hunger some other way. 17:58:40 !messages 17:58:40 (1/1) kilobyte said (1h 23m 30s ago): One of possible solutions: decreasing metabolism further could be a yet another effect of wearing multiple ponderosity. 17:59:29 bmh: I died like this in Zot:5, 0.3 or so :) 18:00:19 It was a real drag too. I'd just found a +7,+5 dagger {holy, +rage, +inv} 18:00:45 I think hunger per turn is the right thing to do 18:02:10 if abuse is a problem, increase hunger for turns that are longer than normal 18:02:36 by: well... that would just make it hunger for absolute time then 18:02:40 which is what it isnow 18:02:40 (: 18:03:01 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:03:14 I think it's right that fast actions cost as much food as normal actions 18:03:20 i do too 18:03:37 the part that confused me before was why resting was a constant 10 aut regardless of your speed 18:04:48 -!- Moriasc has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:07:37 dpeg: What's the consensus on stat death? Instadeath is bad, but will going to 0 still kill you (eventually)? 18:07:44 bmh: yes 18:07:55 bmh: the idea is to make it something like starving 18:07:58 ah 18:08:08 Why not just make stat damage occur over a number of rounds? 18:08:18 If you get zinged for 7 points of Str, it'll accumulate over 7 rounds 18:08:56 Making it liike starving is difficult because it's not easy to recuperate lost stat points as it is to eat something. 18:09:20 due: why not? 18:09:34 just eat a royal jelly 18:09:50 by: you may not have one :) 18:09:56 due: if you're hanging around places where stat damage occurs, you'll be carrying things to restore stats anyway 18:10:08 We want stat 0 to be very painful, yes. 18:10:11 i don't think the goal here is to make stat damage not matter 18:10:11 Don't fight cockatrices unless you're carrying a lizard. 18:10:30 The goal is to avoid insta-death 18:11:19 bmh: right 18:11:43 but getting rid of instadeath by making the current instadeath threats not a threat at all isn't a very good solution 18:17:48 doy: yes. Do you think the proposal is prone to that? 18:18:27 just saying that i don't think we should remove the threat of death from 0 stats 18:18:56 OCS, potion of degeneration, randarts? 18:19:10 ? 18:19:19 I think it's more frustrating to be at 0 str and know you have a hundred or so turns left, and no way of recuperating that stat. 18:20:35 well, i mean, same thing as dying to poison 18:20:38 due: that's as frustrating as Starving and having no food. Both are better than "You die." 18:20:59 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:21:39 True. 18:23:02 due: so yes, one of the goals of the new system is to make the suffering not too long. 18:24:36 But food and poison are still easier to come by a solution to... 18:24:37 I'm unsure. 18:25:02 perhaps you could make stat death temporarily crippling, rather than slow death 18:25:09 say, you pass out for 5-10 turns, and are then fine 18:25:24 maybe stat regeneration should speed up at low stats 18:26:05 like right now, you have something like a 1/1000 chance of the entire stat going back to normal per turn 18:26:16 maybe make that 1/(1000/x) chance of regaining one stat point 18:26:21 where x is the amount you're missing 18:27:41 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:misc:stats#stat_death 18:27:52 -!- Snuis has joined ##crawl-dev 18:35:16 comments Rereading that wiki page, I believe the principles are good, while the specific proposals are way too complicated :) 18:35:21 Also, sleep. 18:36:04 I think it's not too hard to implement a prototype 18:36:09 by: yes 18:36:23 Having delayed stat death in 0.7 would be cool. 18:37:05 doy: I am not sure that players should be able to expect stats healing from themselves. 18:37:36 As I see it, if you're intentionally running around with Int 2 or so, you'll have to carry either !RA, or royal jellies, or a ring of Int+X. 18:39:44 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 18:43:57 -!- ogaz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:37 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:12 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:56:22 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 18:57:17 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 19:13:04 03by * rfc0b40fd5b43 10/crawl-ref/source/ (8 files): Remove stat insta-death. 19:14:07 -!- hsolter has joined ##crawl-dev 19:14:49 finally 19:15:10 I guess there are no more banana peels in the dungeon 19:16:33 ok any developer around? 19:16:46 see topic 19:16:56 (8 of them) 19:17:07 you mean +v stuff 19:17:15 ? 19:17:47 eh not good at this irc stuff 19:18:10 look at the topic 19:19:04 yeah , i did seems like the right place!? 19:19:07 yes 19:19:22 +v people are usually shown with a + before their name 19:19:46 well my client show none, so i cant comment on that 19:20:45 anyway, i have some patches to build DCSS with VS2005, how do i proceed? 19:22:24 post them on the issue tracker 19:22:31 crawl.develz.org/mantis 19:22:33 or send them to 19:22:40 crawl-ref-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net 19:23:11 I hope you made the contribs library locations use system variables instead of hard directory paths 19:24:02 yup they are realative to the project locations 19:24:20 no, the directx/ogl etc deps 19:24:27 the other contribs have always been relative 19:25:22 is it intentional that geryon isn't res. to poison? 19:25:25 well i assumed, the directX folders defined in VC include paths 19:26:01 currently, when you build the contribs on VC, it looks for the SDKs in c:\SDKs\* 19:26:05 which is... not good 19:26:46 stabwound: there are seven demons that aren't 19:26:53 weird 19:27:01 I don't think reducing that would improve anything 19:27:28 -!- hsolter has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]] 19:33:51 03by * rd9f1b0f35b2a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (effects.cc main.cc): Move stat loss update from handle_time to world_reacts. 19:33:53 03by * ra4036dce063b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (8 files): Remove stat death avoidance code. 19:34:47 -!- by has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:40:54 Is there a universal function called when I player casts a spell? 19:42:17 if you can't find anything, it's easy to deduct what happens 19:42:25 just look around the input code and see where 'z' is parsed 20:07:54 Cryp71c: Yes. 20:08:21 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:08:36 due, lol any idea what the name is? 20:08:47 your_spells or something like that 20:10:38 due, that is called when a player casts a spell, or when they hit z? 20:10:54 I can't really recall 20:10:58 read spl-cast.cc :) 20:10:59 np, thanks. 20:11:19 On the other side, do you know if there's a universal function that gets called when a monster dies? 20:12:11 been scouring fight.cc 20:12:14 but havn't found anything. 20:12:42 Yes 20:12:51 monster_dies or monster_die or something like tha 20:12:54 check mon-stuff.cc 20:13:13 or mon-*.h 20:13:24 or grep for MONS_BORIS, his hooks are in there 20:13:27 excellent, thanks..was in wrong file. 20:18:19 Crashes when drinking potion of mutation (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1254) by Rarus 20:19:01 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:10 -!- bmh has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:14 -!- timecircuits has joined ##crawl-dev 20:25:50 -!- timecircuits has left ##crawl-dev 21:18:15 -!- Snuis has left ##crawl-dev 21:43:35 -!- Siber has quit [Quit: Whoa! Partial hit!] 21:47:53 -!- Siber has joined ##crawl-dev 22:32:01 !tell Keskitalo Trapdoor spiders should be zombifieable, yes -- eventually. Right now they are set to NOZOMBIE because zombie monster spawns on the dungeon are based purely on this, and they are too strong to spawn as zombies at that depth. 22:32:01 Twinge: OK, I'll let Keskitalo know. 22:33:20 !tell Keskitalo Once this is fixed and zombie spawns are based on something more logical (such as the depth of their non-zombie counterparts), then they can be switched to having zombies. There's a few other cases like this, all clearly noted in mon-data. 22:33:20 Twinge: OK, I'll let Keskitalo know. 22:34:46 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 22:58:50 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:09:16 -!- Cryp71c_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:11:35 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 23:14:56 I think titans were bad enough without airstrike :O 23:22:13 -!- myuzinn has joined ##crawl-dev 23:24:38 So I'm writing some accounting functions for Tile's rendering. What's the best way to add a wizmode command? I just need it to print a string. 23:25:53 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 23:33:55 -!- Cryp71c_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:33:55 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]] 23:39:02 Idea: Monsters should not go berserk unless they can reach you 23:39:17 * sorear waits on the other side of an obstacle while Rupert rages at air 23:41:43 sorear: Couldn't you be so angering that they go berserk on sight? :3 23:41:54 this would also solve the issue brought up about people placing a rat between a beserker and having them stuck 23:42:01 well kinda 23:42:33 I never quite understood why berserk monsters only attacked the player. 23:42:44 gameplay balance 23:42:47 berserk allies destroy your enemies 23:43:09 dpeg and others generally don't like the idea of monsters killing each other as normal behaviour 23:43:23 ah 23:43:25 rather than induced via enslavement etc 23:45:46 myuzinn: There's several options for 'rat blockeades' - they aren't inherently a bad thing IMO, but can be addressed in a few ways if deemed to be, or in certain special cases. For example, berserk monsters could shove past other monsters that are the same size or smaller to get at you 23:46:03 -!- ogaz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:30 yeh I liked that suggestion someone posted 23:46:41 it's abusable by the player but in a good way :) 23:46:52 berserking other monsters becomes a viable tactical feature then 23:46:59 if extremely risky anyway 23:47:04 Someone also once mentioned an idea for yaks to be able to trampede and trample anything tiny-sized (that isn't flying) in their way - which is fun, but people would probably whine 'but why can't dragons trample tiny things too??' :P 23:47:17 let them then :p 23:47:42 make creatures that able to trample creatures that are X size categories below them 23:48:03 4 sizes below... Hmm. 23:48:48 That'd mean dragons could trample humaoids 23:50:02 let's not add in anything to do with size until we go through and make sizes make sense, thanks 23:50:12 Eronarn: That's already done =) 23:50:29 I did that a month ago. 23:50:54 Could probably use a few final tweaks here and there but it's close, at least. 23:51:35 oh, nice 23:51:43 is it on the wiki 23:52:26 It was on a seperate Google doc file since I didn't want to bother translating the spreadsheet to the wiki; 23:53:32 I am not sure this is completely accurate anymore (some final changes were probably made that I never bothered updating to the spreadsheet), but here's the old file - http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AkvD83krfS2MdHNSajZXcVA0WlBfZ0NXY0JtMmFUaVE&hl=en 23:54:12 mon-data obviously has the full list. Could probably make a scirpt to extract it in a spreadsheet form I guess 23:54:25 i hope butterflies aren't still givin' chunks :D 23:55:24 No corpse at all anymore. 23:55:31 this looks quite good, though 23:55:40 i think the most fun are the huge changes, like little => medium 23:56:56 How about tiny -> large? ;) 23:58:02 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 23:58:45 The patch also gave some eyes corpses that didn't before, fixed a few zombie sizes (a few are purposely wrong until zombie monster spawns are done properly and not based only on size), etc.