00:03:34 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 00:33:12 -!- eric_c_c has joined ##crawl-dev 00:36:39 -!- karmatic has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:36:55 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:40:41 -!- sorear has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:19 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 00:54:34 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 01:01:53 -!- karmatic has joined ##crawl-dev 01:29:33 -!- eric_c_c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:30:00 -!- eric_c_c has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:08 -!- ogaz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:36:35 -!- eric_c_c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:37:00 -!- eric_c_c has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:11 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:27 hello 02:35:29 by: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 02:35:35 !messages 02:35:36 (1/1) due said (6h 46m 13s ago): I had a look at the monster silence patch, but it touches a lot on areas and I'm not too familiar with the recent changes you made to that code to prevent icky slowdown. #1121 on Mantis. 02:35:43 due: replied on tracker 03:04:33 -!- by has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:57:37 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:01:49 it'd be neat if "Electricity arcs through the water!" had some effect on the player character if standing in that body of water 04:02:01 and any monsters in that water (if it doesn't already, i dunno) 04:04:32 perhaps inflicting damage on a par with that of an electric eel blast 04:06:45 doesn't it? 04:07:22 -!- yobbo1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:07:23 i don't know about damaging monsters, but i just went unharmed in such a situation 04:11:33 -!- MarvinPA-2 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:12:34 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:13:05 hmm, it looks like there is code to handle all that, already 04:14:00 hm 04:32:09 -!- MarvinPA-2 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:39:21 Vampire corpse draining (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1128) by Cab 04:53:56 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:58:07 _Edmund shouts! 04:58:10 _You see here a runed flail. Press: ? - help, v - describe, . - travel Here: Edmund, wielding an orcish great sword, and wearing a scale mail 04:58:14 due! 05:06:24 I think post-berserk slow might last a bit too long now 05:06:34 I just went through 3 speed potions worth of time 05:52:17 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:52:49 Hi guys. Going into water while in ice form as a merfolk switches you back from iceform and changes you into a swimming merfolk. 06:01:09 this is intentional 06:01:17 merfolk shapechange overrides all other forms 06:02:05 -!- hotsun has joined ##crawl-dev 06:06:23 -!- hotsun has left ##crawl-dev 06:07:41 okay, cool 06:10:24 Morninng. 06:10:24 Keskitalo: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 06:11:12 !tell dpeg Yes, wikifying the amulets sounds good! 06:11:12 Keskitalo: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 06:19:50 are mobs supposed to be able to attack when feared? 06:19:54 or rather, evoke 06:20:08 got killed by a reaching weapon when he was running away 06:20:23 Morning Keskitalo! 06:20:49 !coffee Keskitalo 06:20:50 * Henzell hands Keskitalo a mug of irish coffee, brewed by Snorg. 06:20:51 ;) 06:21:05 I know the routine, I lurk. 06:22:13 Ohhh, thanks. 06:22:46 Xiberia: Hmm. Dragons can turn and breathe, for instance, that is intended. 06:23:24 Putting a space between your foe and evoking reaching is a huge accomplishment from the AI, that is also certain. :) 06:23:48 yeah, grum really surprised me there 06:24:21 It does sound emergent rather than planned though, this behaviour. 06:24:37 Xiberia: Did he stop running? 06:24:38 Keskitalo: I think it was implemented for snapping turtles 06:24:53 Keskitalo, he was still surrounded by yellow as i died 06:24:54 purge: Oh! 06:41:41 greensnark: Is reaching (with weapons) while fleeing a bug? 06:47:55 Well 06:47:59 That's possibly just a display bug 06:48:08 He might not've been updated before he turned to kill you 06:48:11 But it' likely a bug 06:49:07 is it intended that turtle's fleeing behavour is that they flee to one space away, and then sit there attacking you while still "fleeing" 06:49:24 st_: That's a bug, coimplain to le snark. 06:56:32 it's not really a bug 07:05:07 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 07:08:52 why not? 07:09:10 Fleeing monsters should revert to non-fleeing status when attacking. 07:10:35 well, if players love kiting, why would monsters be unable to do that too? 07:21:38 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:23:26 Hi due! 07:23:34 kilobyte: <3 07:25:25 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 07:25:29 Hi dpeg! 07:25:42 Keskitalo: Hi there! 07:25:42 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 07:25:45 !messages 07:25:45 (1/1) Keskitalo said (1h 14m 33s ago): Yes, wikifying the amulets sounds good! 07:25:54 I just did some housekeeping on the Ranged Combat page. I think the idea to have ammo pluses only affect mulching is very good. 07:26:02 Keskitalo: I've got another radical idea up my sleeve. Expect email today or tomorrow. 07:26:07 dpeg: Great! :) 07:26:15 (Been talking with Johanna for three hours yesterday. :) 07:26:22 Hohoo, excellent. :) 07:26:32 "Let's add pudding farming!" 07:26:37 * Keskitalo senses a kick coming 07:27:19 Sorry. Hangover. Worst jokes. 07:27:48 I've got a better idea: Crawlbereth! 07:27:55 Oooooh! 07:28:07 * dpeg is able to come up with incredibly bad ideas without the help of alcohol! 07:28:12 finally a sure-fire way of escape? :P 07:28:28 Zaba: yes! :) 07:30:32 Pluses affecting mulching only affects three things (at least): general RC damage nerf; choice between launcher/ammo enchantment is more meaningful; from that follows that different styles want one rather than the other (and, if you find lots or little ammo also affects the choice) 07:31:20 Keskitalo: I was aware of these -- they are positive, imo? 07:31:20 That and higher RC skill costs would accomplish a lot I think. 07:31:27 dpeg: All very positive of course! 07:31:42 In particular, since the choice of (enchanting which) launcher would actually become meaningful. 07:31:53 Keskitalo: say so on the wiki page, please =) 07:34:11 Alright, I explicitly now say so in the wiki page. (I also already formed the discussion into a summary/proposal, in case you didn't check it yet) 07:34:27 oh, didn't notice 07:34:34 only saw OG17's reply 07:35:00 Johanna and I were wondering what's holding 0.6 up -- anybody knows? 07:35:51 Need to run, cheers! 07:36:01 bye! 07:52:53 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:49 morning all 07:54:57 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:00:08 Hi! 08:05:15 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 08:07:01 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:18:02 03kilobyte * r67b0c1dc6456 10/crawl-ref/source/ (16 files in 6 dirs): s/skeletal dragon/bone dragon/ 08:24:40 -!- by has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:24:41 -!- by_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:34:06 -!- hotsun has joined ##crawl-dev 08:45:01 -!- ivan has quit [Changing host] 08:45:01 -!- ivan has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:03 -!- Eifeltrampel has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:45 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:53 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 09:44:17 03kilobyte * rf79d6b652ce2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (religion.cc spl-book.cc): Sort the book of Envenomations. 10:23:40 should having a halo really mean you're immune to corona for to-hit purposes? 10:41:11 rc3 seems to still have a small delay if you level up by magic dart 10:50:57 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:51:10 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:49 felirx: even with max_fps = 0? 10:59:46 default settings mm 11:03:59 not sure 11:12:02 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:47 greensnark: do you think dgnevent could handle invalidating cached data when monster/player moves or LOS changes? 11:21:22 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 11:21:46 LOS change should include terrain change (doors, digging) but also clouds 11:22:00 also, assuming it could, is it meant for this kind of thing? 11:22:18 -!- by_ is now known as by 11:33:28 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:42:10 -!- ogaz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:09 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:52 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:47:59 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:06:43 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:32 It's nice to have the bow-using elf back in the Halls. 12:38:48 Playing a HEAM^F against them is fun. :) 12:40:17 -!- hotsun has quit [Quit: I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 12:48:33 are there any major issues in 0.6 atm? 12:50:13 stabwound: not that I'm aware of 13:02:39 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:03:42 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 13:37:08 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:44:51 -!- sorear has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:58 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:54 !tell dpeg you might like that word: Dampfkesselrevisionsverein 13:48:55 bhaak: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 13:49:27 Curare and autopickup (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1129) by Nobody 13:57:08 -!- eric_c_c has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:58:22 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:30 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:01 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 14:06:40 pointless_: Are we getting.. wandering ballistomyceti? 14:08:05 well the idea is you turn ballistomycetes into 'hyperactive ballistomycetes' (may need a better game), that blow themselves up until they die. It may be too hard to use in the current state 14:09:17 -!- Cryp71c_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:09:27 err *name 14:09:40 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:10:06 the concept of a wandering ballistomycete is hilarious 14:13:12 -!- Cryp71c_ is now known as Cryp71c 14:15:12 03by * rb8fc5c970ab9 10/crawl-ref/source/cloud.cc: Move rain cloud watering to separate function. 14:15:14 03by * r2b188ef6f01e 10/crawl-ref/source/files.cc: files.cc: Sort includes. 14:15:21 03by * rf485650f08af 10/crawl-ref/source/cloud.cc: Relace use of haloers() by haloed(). 14:15:22 03by * r9f90b2d9a942 10/crawl-ref/source/ (act-iter.cc act-iter.h makefile.obj): actor_iterator, a variant of monster_iterator that includes the player. 14:15:23 03by * r6ee6a6e5288d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (actor.h areas.cc areas.h monster.h player.h): New halo and silence handling. 14:15:26 03by * ra9947b5320c5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc player.cc): Adapt descriptions to the pre-squared halo radius. 14:15:29 03by * rcad05f5d0c0f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (cloud.cc los.cc los.h map_knowledge.cc monster.cc player.cc): Try to track change to global LOS. 14:15:30 03by * rb1fa1bb93e8f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files): Clean up backlit/halo handling. 14:15:31 03by * rf8d9fc33f74b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (8 files): Invalidate area grid whenever relevant things change. 14:15:32 03by * r05d50f9d9069 10/crawl-ref/source/files.cc: files.cc: Update LOS and invalidate areas in load(). 14:15:34 03by * r5bbf01568400 10/crawl-ref/source/main.cc: Remove redundant monster LOS update. 14:15:37 03by * r0eb7ec537f4b 10/crawl-ref/source/areas.cc: Reenable holy monster halos. 14:15:38 03nrook * r09aac6cc392a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (areas.cc directn.cc enum.h ghost.cc mon-cast.cc monster.cc): Allow monsters to use Silence. 14:23:26 by: <3 14:23:31 pointless_: Sounds great. :) 14:23:47 I'm really enjoying my Fedhas game, I keep going on about that but it bears repeating. 14:24:53 The way you get piety from decomposition, pay piety to evolute the toadstools, and pay piety again if they die seems to work very nicely. 14:26:02 I've also had some quite neat moments with Growth. If you act in time, it's a lifesaver, but if you let the monster come next to you, you have to think of something else. 14:26:08 I've had a couple of both situations. :) 14:26:39 pointless_: The Growth interface is superb. 14:27:04 :) that's good 14:27:46 Basic mode of operations is to duck behind wandering mushroom army to shoot at the enemies, it's powerful but can cost you piety. 14:28:03 Also, wandering mushrooms make great allies because of the way they (don't) move. :) 14:28:18 It forces you to consider your positioning a bit. 14:28:46 I've never enjoyed Elf:1-6 as much, the knights shoot back and it hurts. 14:38:32 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 14:41:49 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:43:12 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:22 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:59:22 dpeg: did you see the discussion me and Enne had on Friday night? 15:00:18 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:19 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:00:20 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 15:02:14 dpeg: Evenings! 15:07:07 Hi! 15:07:09 felirx: no! 15:07:22 Keskitalo: amulets are on the wiki, stats are next. 15:07:30 felirx: tell me about it, please. 15:09:11 dpeg: Excellent! 15:09:12 03kilobyte * r358a6ca54d84 10/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc: Re-enable non-bladed vampiric weapons [in defiance of Mantis 866] 15:11:41 ^ interesting :O 15:12:19 kilobyte's reasoning is absolutely valid. 15:12:35 A blunt vampiricism weapon is nothing like a blunt weapon of distortion. 15:12:52 felirx? 15:13:42 and they being too strong is another story 15:13:50 kilobyte: yes. 15:14:10 If they need a nerf, they will get. But as you say, that's orthogonal to blunt weapons. 15:14:25 at this point they don't increase food consumption while wielding? 15:15:27 stabwound: no, I don't think so. 15:15:34 No, there's a hunger hit upon wielding, and you need to be Full to wield. 15:15:44 The whole point of the change was to stop players from trying to optimise nutrition. 15:16:04 having a +0 flail {speed}, a +11 hammer {flame} and a +3 whip {vamp} in one game, I used the whip solely even though it has terrible base stats. With the former two, I did good damage but had to rest after every fight. 15:17:09 Are {vamp} weapons special for Vp, and if so, how? 15:19:34 no hunger hit, for one. And they don't need to butcher to eat. 15:19:41 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:20:09 Does it drain blood for them? :) 15:20:41 I was afraid that Vp get some useless damage bonus (like dwarven weapons etc.) 15:21:09 And I'd propose that Vp could get healing and nutrition from {vamp} -- it would be their weapon of choice to stay Alive. 15:21:45 dpeg: I think post-berserk slowing might be a bit excessive with the recent changes to duration handling - it lasted as long as 3 potions of speed 15:22:09 sorear: what did change? 15:23:01 speed has a shorter absolute duration than slow 15:23:18 Vp go through a different code path when using a vampiric weapon -- for one, they feed on every hit, not only on the killing blow 15:25:07 kilobyte: aha, that's also an option, although it might become problematic eventually. 15:25:16 oh, and Vp also heal twice as much if the monster has clean chunks, same as non-Vp if it's contaminated, poisonous or mutagenic 15:25:23 sorear, pointless: I am absolutely fine with changing post-berserk slow. 15:25:53 The nerf was definitely not intentional but only a side effect of something else, and rage already got its own, direct nerf (removal of rSlow). 15:26:10 kilobyte: thank you. 15:26:46 hrm, so with vampiric weapons being awesome for non-Vp, they must be downright broken for Vp 15:26:55 yes 15:27:37 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:34:40 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 15:41:07 dpeg: as a side effect to the charscreen overhaul, we'll get functionality to turn all the other menus, fags etc mouse operatable 15:55:48 ...fags? 15:58:52 q 16:06:17 (it's a good thing due's autoban script is broken) 16:07:12 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:24 felirx: awe-some! 16:07:39 felirx: but where's the conflict? Didn't you mention some discussion with Eino? 16:09:37 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:46 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:53 with Enne :D 16:10:04 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Over the ages, man has been certain of a great many things. some of these things were even true.] 16:10:13 was discussing the best way to go make them work 16:10:30 felirx: sorry! So Enne helped to sort out those CRT problemsß 16:10:36 ß=? 16:10:39 yes 16:15:53 nice, that's very good news 16:16:17 Just yesterday I talked to jpeg for three hours, and I mentioned that the starting screens should be ready soon :) 16:16:51 soon is relative ;) 16:17:00 ooh! 16:17:09 technically it works right now, it just renders it all wrong 16:17:17 the menus work on console functionally 16:19:44 felirx: so there's still issues with the mouse? 16:19:56 nah 16:19:59 just rendering 16:20:24 after that's done, All I need to do is fix whatever bugs are left, convert the other screens too and it should be done 16:21:28 !seen Twinge 16:21:28 I last saw Twinge at Sun Mar 21 15:51:10 2010 UTC (5h 30m 18s ago) joining the channel. 16:21:41 and come up with a proper way to find the "entry to the left" of an item in a x,y coordinate 16:22:41 sorear: do you have a proposal for how to change post-rage slow? 16:23:00 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:02 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:04 dpeg: is it wrong again? 16:24:41 21:21 <+sorear> dpeg: I think post-berserk slowing might be a bit excessive with the recent changes to duration handling - it lasted as long as 3 potions of speed 16:24:54 oh, right 16:25:14 slowing in general, really 16:25:55 k, back. 16:26:06 Oh, if it's about slowing in general, that changes everything. 16:26:08 sorear: still here? 16:26:14 Cryp71c: hi! 16:26:25 dpeg: well, it lasts twice as many turns now 16:26:37 unless someone halved a bunch of durations 16:26:46 ??git 16:26:46 git[1/1]: git clone git://crawl-ref.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/crawl-ref/crawl-ref 16:27:18 dpeg, I'll need some new stuff to be approved to work on tomorrow :P 16:28:45 Cryp71c: okay, will do :) 16:29:00 Was alone with the kids over the weekend, so that's why nothing happened. 16:29:18 pointless_ would know -- I think he did the duration changes 16:29:31 dpeg, I only ever really work on crawl while I'm at my real job (and slacking, obviously) so I only work during the weekdays :P 16:29:47 what are we talking about? haste + slow still? 16:29:56 pointless_, zerk slow duration 16:30:06 I think 16:30:17 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:30:34 pointless_: should we reduce the duration of all slows? Or only those of post rage slowß 16:30:51 haste/slow durations should be the same as prior to changes, this does mean haste has 1/2 the absolute duration it used to and slow has twice the absolute duration it used to, so for haste+slow slow has a longer absolute duration 16:31:11 dpeg: I think slow durations are basically fine, maybe we should just make haste+slow cancel both durations 16:31:28 pointless_: I think that would be an improvement 16:31:36 no, then you can double haste always 16:32:38 well anyway the issue isn't slow durations per say, but the absolute durations of haste+slow 16:32:46 pointless_: for some reason, I have trouble coming up with stuff around this topic. Has Haste been boosted or nerfed? Has rage been nerfed? 16:33:20 haste while slowed has been cut to effectively 1/4 duration, right? 16:33:28 yes 16:33:39 ah, this is something I actually noticed (with Trog, of course) 16:33:54 well that specifically is what sorear was talking about, not slow duration in general 16:34:11 Wouldn't shortening the duration of slowness help? 16:34:23 sure, but is shortening slowness duration in general warranted? 16:34:31 Slow is bad, no matter what. Therefore, it could be shorter. 16:34:42 pointless_: I don't really know, that's why I am asking :) 16:34:46 this is too confusing to figure out so I should probably just play a berserker 16:35:22 dpeg: but that would nerf !slow in the usual case (where you don't shorten it with !speed) 16:35:32 (not potion specific, obviously) 16:35:48 we could make DUR_SLOW decay faster while DUR_HASTE is active 16:36:12 Okay, how long does !slow work' 16:36:13 ? 16:37:04 I think being hasted and slowed should show some indication, at least 16:37:15 like, print both in another colour instead of hiding both 16:37:32 need to sleep now, good night 16:37:33 -!- by has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:40:13 Anyway, I tried to cancel Slow with speed (or wand of haste) and was surprised quite often how it didn't work. 16:41:36 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 16:42:51 dpeg: I am going to e-mail you a picture 16:43:06 ROFL -_- 16:44:02 pointless_: thank you. 16:44:15 I am so dense with this topic, must be missing something very basic. 16:44:31 oh, btw -- what is still holding up 0.6? 16:44:41 mail sent 16:44:44 have we had any more serious issues? 16:45:55 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 16:49:20 dpeg, oh, there is presently a (small) issue in .6 (and trunk) where elven armour can (potentially) offset the shield spellcasting penalty. EG, wearing a large shield has a penalty of like 90, and wearing elven armour as an elf has no penalty but provides a bonus of 60, bringing the penalty down to 30. 16:49:45 dpeg, its been raised on Mantis, its small, but its a question of whether it should act like that. 16:49:45 that's not really gamebreaking though 16:50:03 it's a bug, but it can wait for 0.6.0 16:50:06 no, I rather like it, since with the .6 changes to spellcasting, armour / shield penalties are much, much heavier. 16:50:41 i'm sure you do like it, that doesn't mean it's not a bug d: 16:51:05 doy, IDK, it looks like that's just how the implementer wanted it to work, the code isn't complex in the slightest. 16:51:20 roll over the extra bonus as stealth 16:52:14 dpeg: does the picture make sense? 16:52:24 doy, its return (25*armour_penalty_function() - 25 * shield_penalty_function() - racial_armour_bonus_function() - 20) 16:53:07 Cryp71c: that's really pretty irrelevant 16:54:36 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 16:55:37 doy, the code is working as intended, it obviously has made it this far without anyone raising complaint on it, I don't see how you can find the calculation to be buggy. Its a bit counterintuitive, perhaps...or unbalanced, possibly. But not buggy. 16:57:12 pointless_: I think shortening berserk slow in general is warranted - berserk is arguably slightly too weak in the midgame now 16:59:37 ok 16:59:52 not much, maybe 30-40% 17:00:05 along with fixing haste/slow interaction 17:01:37 Hey, rather simple problem here trying to build master. It fails at stairs.cc, am I missing some define or? http://pastebay.com/90499 17:02:11 The only difference to default AppHdr.h is DGL enabled 17:02:33 I'll go dig deeper in a bit. 17:02:45 sorry, just back, son can't sleep 17:02:46 joosa, either you're missing an include, or (wherever mark_milestone) is declared, you're missing its declaration in the corresponding .h file 17:03:06 I just pulled the latest 17:03:27 Maybe it's in a flux, dunno if it's even supposed to compile. 17:03:39 Cryp71c: ah, the elven robe bug is not enough to keep up 0.6... it can be fixed for 0.6.1 or later, imo 17:04:20 dpeg, can shields be race (specifically elven) branded? 17:04:36 I've been building master once a couple days without problems though 17:05:00 Cryp71c: I think so, yes. 17:05:17 That error just came out of nowhere. 17:05:21 -!- eric_c_c has joined ##crawl-dev 17:05:46 dpeg, ok, so then that's the most straightforward solution, racial bonuses on armour can negate armour penalties and racial bonuses on shields can negate shield penalties, but can't cross. 17:07:10 pointless_: picture makes sense, thanks! This mechanism is completely okay -- but it does not answer how *long* durations should be. 17:07:57 In particular, the situation need not be symmetric: Haste could work for 4 absolute turns (giving you 8 actions); whereas slow could work for 6 (or any other number) of absolute turns. 17:08:34 Cryp71c: you should add that to the BR :) 17:08:41 dpeg, ..BR? 17:09:23 bug report, about elven robrs 17:09:46 dpeg, its already in mantis 17:10:17 Cryp71c: afaiu, you support the pov that the bug is not a bug. Did you say so on mantis? 17:10:43 dpeg, oh, yeah I'll add it, thought you had said submit a BR 17:13:33 no no 17:14:07 pointless_: what are the !speed and !slow durations (in absolute units)? 17:14:32 I don't know offhand 17:15:13 I have the feeling (nothing more) that reducing the !slow duration could solve all our problems. 17:16:24 Cryp71c: and for what it's worth, unbalanced and counterintuitive things *are* bugs 17:16:29 regardless of the intent 17:16:35 which is why i said that was irrelevant 17:16:59 then the issue seems to be a subjective difference in what defines a bug 17:17:00 so if you want !speed to cancel post berserk slow, the speed potion should give 4 times as many hasted turns as the post-berserk slow gives slow turns 17:18:50 pointless_: !speed needn't fully cancel !slow. 17:19:16 doy: if we *want* the current behaviour, we could also make it transparent. 17:19:21 But I am not sure that's a wise move. 17:19:24 dpeg: i don't think we do though 17:19:30 yes 17:19:41 well I am basically uninterested in deciding on what exact durations of things should be 17:19:50 But that's part of the larger topic of racial properties. 17:20:22 pointless_: if you tell me the current durations, I can make an FR on mantis at least. 17:20:47 And we could hope someone comes up with numbers :) 17:21:04 dpeg: you should ask sorear to look it up, I'm a little occupied right now 17:21:56 Can anybody tell me the durations? :( 17:23:08 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 17:24:41 !source potion_effect 17:24:46 Lines pasted to http://paste.scsys.co.uk/41041 17:25:20 that's not it 17:25:35 !source _decrement_durations 17:25:37 !source it_use2.cc:42-454 17:25:38 calls slow_player 17:25:42 Lines pasted to http://paste.scsys.co.uk/41042 17:25:42 Lines pasted to http://paste.scsys.co.uk/41043 17:26:30 thanks to you 17:26:40 actual potions have pow=40 17:27:20 slow_player isn't a straight increment 17:27:26 you need to see it too 17:30:13 so haste_player takes units of hasted turns 17:30:18 and slow_player takes units of slowed turns 17:30:32 i could imagine this not interacting well when haste and slow cancel each other out 17:30:36 This is too confusing for me; I cannot write that FR :( 17:36:15 !speed duration = (40 + random2(40)) * 5, slow duration = (10 + random2(40)) * 20 17:36:19 err !slow duration 17:37:07 !source go_berserk 17:37:08 Lines pasted to http://paste.scsys.co.uk/41045 17:37:22 !source ::go_berserk 17:37:22 Couldn't understand ::go_berserk 17:37:28 not that smart huh? 17:37:40 !source player::go_berserk 17:37:42 Lines pasted to http://paste.scsys.co.uk/41046 17:37:52 i think it just gets confused by leading : 17:37:52 I want the global 17:37:56 oh, no 17:37:58 not that smart 17:38:00 (: 17:38:26 !source bool go_berserk 17:38:26 Couldn't understand go_berserk 17:38:32 aw 17:39:04 but yeah, it's really just a bunch of ugly regexes 17:39:07 I am absolutely overloaded with information (doesn't help that I am trying to get a new wiki page on stats done, and have to sort out DS for Cryp71c). If I open a generic "slow/haste durations could be off" FR, could someone else provide depth? 17:39:09 there's no actual parsing going on 17:39:37 i meant to make it use ctags at some point 17:39:41 but then i stopped caring 17:41:00 -!- lorimer has quit [*.net *.split] 17:41:16 -!- lorimer has joined ##crawl-dev 17:46:16 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 17:46:27 -!- karmatic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49:31 -!- eric_c_c has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:55:08 -!- Enne has quit [Quit: Enne] 18:02:58 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:43 hm, perhaps nobody can help 18:13:05 Not-so-random weird idea of yesterday: removal of Invocations. Thoughts? 18:15:15 I'd sooner make it matter 18:15:25 hmmm 18:15:41 TGWi: it matters a lot 18:15:46 would require possibly non-trivial rebalancing 18:15:51 doy: always does :) 18:15:57 then what's the problem? 18:15:59 div removal didn't 18:16:00 (: 18:16:05 true! 18:16:26 The point is that Inv gods are less fun than others... you'll need to get Inv up, and with some gods, that's a chore (spelling?). 18:16:51 what would it be tied to then? 18:16:52 just piety? 18:17:03 In a nutshell, Inv training is a pretty bad case of victory dancing. 18:17:14 doy: yes, that's the crucial question... 18:17:34 dpeg: well, it's not really for gods like makhleb 18:17:41 where you're allowed to use the abilities on a regular basis 18:17:46 yes 18:18:05 -!- eric_c_c has joined ##crawl-dev 18:18:06 the issue is where you have to go build up piety, and then burn the piety, and then build up piety, and then burn the piety, etc 18:18:09 The less-radical approach is to provide meaningful first abilities for all Inv gods. 18:18:10 victory dancing abilities that cost piety is definitely a pain 18:18:19 -!- Cryp71c_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:18:37 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:18:59 could also tie abilities to other skills 18:19:05 even for Makhleb, while victory dancing doesn't cost piety, it's still victory dancing 18:19:16 kilobyte: but you don't have to victory dance though 18:19:21 because you use it enough 18:19:28 because you're allowed to use it enough 18:19:31 But I believe that there could be a system where you increase *god power* in a different, but as passive way, as gaining piety. 18:19:34 minor destruction? What for? 18:19:36 doy: so like, okawaru keys off fighting? 18:19:36 generally speaking, I support that the amount of training abilities give should be inversely proportional to usability 18:19:39 kilobyte: killing things 18:19:41 i use it all the time 18:19:47 kilobyte: yes, I believe that this is a weak point of Makhleb. 18:19:47 piety-as-consumable gods should train a lot 18:20:19 also, we should do something to make large training with a small pool less wasteful 18:20:24 prospective training &c 18:20:28 minor healing < throw frost/flame, for the same MP cost 18:20:37 er, minor destruction 18:20:46 kilobyte: sure, but invo is useful, and spellcasting, etc isn't 18:20:47 There is also a point which Johanna raised yesterday: "What is Invocations?" You can use Ely to get Inv up to 27, and then switch to Yrdy, using full power evil abilities. 18:20:51 yo 18:20:51 due: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 18:20:52 for makhleb characters 18:20:55 !messages 18:20:56 (1/2) Keskitalo said (4h 17m 48s ago): The ice ending for Swamp was great fun - thanks! :) 18:20:56 usually anyway 18:20:59 !messages 18:21:00 (1/1) Keskitalo said (4h 16m 45s ago): I had it easy though, I could pick off the simulacra with flame branded bow. I teleported once from the ice dragons. 18:21:28 also, minor destruction is 1mp 18:21:45 just yesterday, I went Zin for a long while to train inv hungerlessly on a spriggan 18:21:45 what does invo do for a makhlebite anyway? 18:21:46 dpeg: yes, it's "the skill of being able to make your god give you things" 18:21:51 Si now I believe that Inv is not just suffering from interface/gameplay but also from flavour. 18:21:55 which then went Makhleb 18:21:57 which is fairly odd 18:22:02 doy: "how good you can pray?" :) 18:22:05 right 18:22:05 (: 18:22:35 kilobyte: do you agree that getting rid of stunts like these is good? 18:22:42 definitely 18:22:50 okay, so I will think some more about it 18:23:00 Axing Inv is just one way to do it, there are also others. 18:23:06 dpeg: agree, lehudib needs a lot of discussion 18:23:24 due: I think I closed or resolved the item=? 18:23:28 the other issue with inv is that it's used pretty inconsistently 18:23:54 (btw in general, if you don't thikn some mantis item is implementation-worthy/ready, just resolve or simply assign to me). 18:24:01 doy: yes, that too 18:24:02 it's only used for some active abilities for some gods 18:24:13 Evocations is a fine skill, Invocations not so much. 18:24:13 which makes it make less sense 18:24:16 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:24:34 But I still need to finish that stats wiki. 18:24:47 dpeg: yes, you did 18:25:33 discussions should take it to the wiki 18:25:55 it is completely okay that people open mantis items for something, but once it gets stuck, away with the thing to a wiki space 18:30:06 -!- Eifeltrampel has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:34:47 "too hungry to rest" keeps me from waiting to get out of berserk to butcher to eat :| 18:35:32 you can butcher while berserk 18:35:53 also, if you're already at starving, leaving berserk will almost certainly kill you 18:35:56 to change weapons to butcher to eat 18:36:03 leaving berserk can not kill you 18:36:15 er 18:36:18 minimum hunger you can leave berserk is I think 400 18:36:34 hi, due 18:38:02 I have died from berserk running out while I was butchering, although that was in 0.4 I think 18:38:17 minimum hunger you can leave berserk at is 50 18:38:30 if your hunger falls below 100 for any reason, you die instantly 18:39:17 starving is at 1000, and anything below 250 has a chance of death every turn (if i remember correctly) 18:39:48 berserk has a cost of 700 to leave 18:40:36 ah, no, you just have a chance of fainting if it's under 500 18:41:28 which bypasses stasis 18:42:02 also, you get a new chance to faint every time you unfaint 18:42:03 1/40 chance of 4+d8 turns of paralysis, every turn that your hunger is below 500 18:42:10 you might never get a chance to act 18:42:15 after it crosses 500 18:42:21 *every non-paralyzed turn, that is 18:42:40 sorear: well, that's not really likely 18:43:46 hm, don't know where I read that 18:44:52 !lg * ktyp=starving place=dis:7 18:44:53 No games for * (ktyp=starving place=dis:7). 18:45:11 starvation 18:45:16 !lg * ktyp=starvation place=dis:7 18:45:17 1. Lemuel the Skullbreaker (L27 HuHe), worshipper of Elyvilon, starved to death on Dis:7 on 2008-02-27, with 1005125 points after 128615 turns and 13:40:00. 18:45:31 !lg * ktyp=starvation place=dis:7 -tv 18:45:32 1. Lemuel, XL27 HuHe, T:128615 requested for FooTV. 18:46:09 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:46:32 -!- Cryp71c_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:47:09 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:47:43 stats page updated 18:52:14 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 18:54:44 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:55:58 slow/haste durations (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1130) by dpeg 18:55:58 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 18:57:23 It's a very lackluster mantis item, but I didn't want to lose track of the issue. 18:57:42 -!- eric_c_c has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:08:25 -!- eric_c_c has joined ##crawl-dev 19:11:48 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 19:21:05 Randart Stasis amulet generated with +Rage (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1131) by rkd 19:24:00 'lol' 19:30:45 Can we get an art/randart property which is one-step less severe than -CAST? Like, -1 ring of wizardry, or something like that? 19:32:03 it should be possible, Lantern of Shadows decreases your casting power 19:32:53 Int-? 19:33:42 btw, I think there was something weird in one of my rc1 demonspawn games 19:33:55 what? 19:33:58 I got 3 levels of the evasion aura at xl3, and 2 levels of AC scales on some XL5~6 19:34:46 felirx: you can get more than one DS mut level per XL 19:35:09 then I was just really lucky 19:36:12 night all 19:37:08 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Over the ages, man has been certain of a great many things. some of these things were even true.] 19:38:48 soon hopefully demonspawn will be updated! 19:39:38 -!- casmith789 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:46 I'm just hoping DsWz will still work after the new mutations 19:40:52 since it's somewhat a fun combo to play 19:40:56 Okay, where should I go now? 19:40:58 why wouldn't it? 19:41:12 there might be some evil wizard breaking mutations! 19:41:12 http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/DrPraetor/DrPraetor.txt 19:41:19 DrPraetor: ##crawl is over there. 19:41:25 * DrPraetor oopses 19:41:45 for instance, the new +10AC ice aura is a lot better if you use nonfire spells primarily 19:41:50 Um.... change the Armour skill to EVP reduction so it is continuous rather than proportional. 19:41:51 which means you have to be flexible 19:53:24 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:11:42 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:17:00 I like the move-while-confused-near-lava warning, that's good. 20:17:07 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 20:17:17 Can we get a move-downstairs-into-floating eyeball-and-blobs stupidity warning? 20:17:49 how about putting a ring of acid floor around the Slime stairs, radius 5 20:18:00 does 3d10 corrosion damage per turn 20:18:12 and optionally splashes you with acid each time you step 20:18:31 20:19:53 I was actually thinking of ZAngband 20:20:45 zang! 20:21:23 Macros are not saved, message log reports "Could not open settings/macro.txt for writing!" (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1132) by roguelikedev 20:21:32 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:22:13 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 20:27:05 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 20:34:01 Also, I think that the variability in Crypt treasure is too great. The Crypt:5 with the secret door chamber has, what, four times as much treasure? 20:34:21 i thought we fixed that 20:34:35 dpeg nerfed one of the maps. 20:34:42 Ah, that's too bad :( 20:34:48 which "secret door chamber"? 20:34:49 I was going to suggest de-nerfing the others instead 20:35:14 The one in the middle with three secret doors? 20:35:21 I rather liked it, but it was *huge*. 20:36:53 oh, that's probably the new crypt ending 20:37:02 it might not have balanced loot 20:37:26 mu's, I think 20:38:16 yes 20:46:30 `enter` button (ascii 3) does not confirm (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1133) by roguelikedev 20:56:03 -!- eric_c_c has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:01:52 Generally I approve of more loot. More loot is fun, and we're still well short of the tipping point where more loot would be unbalancing or boring. 21:04:11 can liches_glass go away please 21:05:38 * DrPraetor likes the liches_glass too. 21:06:06 Only there should be, like, nine liches. And they should get special combo-attacks where two liches cast at once, and meteorites fall on you. 21:06:37 liches_glass is fun 21:06:43 and i disagree about loot 21:07:02 we give out way too much loot as it is 21:07:15 More liches behind glass <3 21:07:18 If you gave out twice as much, it'd be still be mostly different every game. 21:07:18 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:07:26 we should replace the row of alarm traps with zot traps 21:07:29 So I don't see the problem. 21:07:35 pointless_: OR shafts! 21:07:43 DrPraetor: what? 21:07:44 pointless_: OR better yet, a new type of trap that just abysses you every time. 21:07:45 shafts to crypt:6 21:07:54 Crypt:6 is just wall-to-wall liches. 21:07:56 you will be stuck outside the bounds of normal dungeon generation 21:07:58 Or tomb:3 shafts! 21:08:10 I'm not saying we should give out twice as much, mind you. But +50% more loot wouldn't be enough to be a problem, I think. 21:08:26 pretty sure it would be 21:08:29 And the expanded crypt:5 did not remotely +50% the total loot in the game. 21:08:40 Hmm what would be the optimal open space - lich cage ratio? Too many lich cages and they can't summon anything... 21:09:35 20-0 21:09:57 Does liches glass still work? 21:10:26 I don't know, I don't actually keep track of monsters-in-glass technology (much to my shame) 21:10:40 Hm. 21:11:05 Slime:7 needs tits-on-glass. 21:20:34 03dolorous * r0d838f97437e 10/crawl-ref/source/artefact.cc: Fix Mantis 1131. 21:55:36 -!- eric_c_c has joined ##crawl-dev 21:56:01 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 21:58:13 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 22:00:28 -!- neunon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:17 -!- Madtrixr has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:31:45 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:32:23 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 22:50:16 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:55:29 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 23:10:38 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 23:12:09 -!- eric_c_c has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:14:38 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 23:37:17 -!- eric_c_c has joined ##crawl-dev 23:51:17 -!- murphy_slaw_ has joined ##crawl-dev