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01:46:07 <by> hi
01:46:50 <Twinge> Hail.
02:04:07 <ixtli> hey by
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02:25:30 <ixtli> yay ssbb
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02:54:36 <doy> Keskitalo: hrm, is the magic mapping loot issue critical for 0.6?
02:55:09 <Keskitalo> doy: If you want to drop it, it's probably ok.
02:55:23 <Keskitalo> Easy to fix in 0.6.1, for instance.
02:55:36 <doy> just trying to avoid putting things off even longer
02:55:42 <Keskitalo> *nod* Okay, let's delay it.
02:55:52 <doy> 0.6.1 would probably be fine
02:56:18 <doy> just waiting to talk to due about if he has anything done for the wizlab loot stuff, and then probably getting a prerelease out
02:56:22 <Ashenzari> Inaccessible loot in vaults (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1035) by evktalo
02:56:46 <Keskitalo> doy: Sounds excellent.
02:58:09 <Keskitalo> Edited #1035 and the wiki page.
03:02:01 <CIA-40> 03j-p-e-g * re2cf5e1147e9 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Add new website to the changelog because why not?
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03:38:46 -!- MaryPoppins is now known as Adepn
03:39:07 -!- Adepn is now known as Adeon
03:40:05 <ixtli> doy: woo congrats
03:40:06 <ixtli> :D
03:40:44 <by> doy: any bugs you'd like to see fixed for 0.6 at the moment?
03:41:54 <ixtli> doy: Yeah, I can try and work on some as well if you need anything cleaned up quick.
03:42:03 <doy> nothing that i can think of
03:44:48 <ixtli> sweet.  It's ramen time then.
04:23:34 <by> the jiyva brainstorm wiki feel very read-only
04:27:21 <by> I like dpeg's idea re stashing: praying on a stack marks those items uneatable but costs piety
04:30:52 <MarvinPA> in combination with letting jellies eat stuff while you're off the level, too?
04:31:16 <MarvinPA> (so you can't just stash on the temple/hive:2/wherever stairs like now)
04:31:24 <by> yes, that should not be allowed
04:31:45 <Ashenzari> unactive throwing skill use exp pool (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1036) by Jinhlk
04:32:10 <MarvinPA> hm, how would you decide how much piety it costs? base it on the total value of the items in the stack?
04:32:43 <Twinge> Marvin: There should be something like that, otherwise it just encourages a tedious collection of everything remotely valuable into a single spot
04:32:59 <MarvinPA> yeah, exactly
04:33:44 <by> I'd base it on the piety gain formula; for a start, just negative the amount you'd have gained by sacrificing
04:34:33 <MarvinPA> yeah, then protecting your entire stash should be reasonably costly i imagine
04:35:00 <MarvinPA> which would be a good thing to some extent
04:35:47 <by> though I'd really prefer stashing to be completely impossible
04:36:34 <MarvinPA> that could get really nasty on any character that doesn't have str as their primary attribute though
04:36:51 <MarvinPA> you'll get reduced down to 8 str and be barely able to carry anything
04:39:13 <by> maybe something could be done by having Jiyva transfer effects of eaten things to the player
04:39:25 <by> jelly eats ration, player gets nourished a bit
04:40:04 <by> applying that to potion effects and the like might be too unpredictable and Xomish however
04:40:24 <MarvinPA> jelly eats potion of decay :D
04:40:26 <MarvinPA> yeah
04:40:37 <by> well, it could apply only to beneficial things
04:41:54 <MarvinPA> true, although that wouldn't entirely fit the flavour, seeing as the mutations you get aren't necessarily 100% good
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04:46:13 <Napkin> Finally found a git project with more objects than crawl!
04:46:21 <Napkin> xorg-server from debian :-P
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05:08:16 <CIA-40> 03by * r9e506bd21f4c 10/crawl-ref/settings/init.txt: Add commented force_more for zapping empty wands.
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06:54:36 <ixtli> Napkin: lol!
06:55:01 <Napkin> ;)
07:10:58 <due> I'm debating closing cmomenting on the Div post.
07:10:59 <Henzell> due: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
07:11:12 <due> !messages
07:11:12 <Henzell> (1/2) dpeg said (13h 9m 49s ago): Khufu uses his Tomb too rarely. Is there anything we can do about this? (Not for 0.6.)
07:11:15 <due> !messages
07:11:16 <Henzell> (1/1) doy said (7h 40m 27s ago): so... is the loot balancing coming, or should we move forward with the release?
07:11:38 <due> !tell doy I'm sorry, I dropped the ball. Move forward with the release, if it can get squeezed in later, that is fine; the game iwll not be broken without it.
07:11:38 <Henzell> due: OK, I'll let doy know.
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07:14:04 <Ashenzari> Skill training speed, 'm' screen ideas (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1037) by Porkchop
07:15:29 <kilobyte> yeah, the loot is nowhere like brokenly good
07:16:09 <kilobyte> the Khufu's tomb issue is mostly my fault since it was me who coded it... the problem is, Khufu is a summon-stormer in a land of summon-stormers
07:16:24 <kilobyte> there's always 4693496749369 monsters around
07:18:46 <greensnark> What's wrong with the Tomb?
07:18:56 <due> Tomb spell.
07:19:07 <greensnark> He seemed to use it ok when I saw him in action on FightClub
07:19:28 <greensnark> If he spammed ToD at the slightest provocation, he'd just be obnoxious and unfun
07:20:21 <Keskitalo> due: Gotta love the "hard game is hard!" commentary. :)
07:20:32 <due> Keskitalo: :)
07:20:46 <greensnark> Hey, the game is hard!
07:20:52 <greensnark> I want my detect foot spell
07:21:36 <Keskitalo> Ooh, I needed to comment on the Desktop Dungeons blog post. That thing about survey, how some players told they enjoy the game despite doing poorly. (And that used to be me.)
07:22:33 <kilobyte> since usually the player will be adjacent, Khufu has to blink and he won't use Tomb until he next chooses to cast that spell
07:22:45 <bhaak> greensnark: detect foot is nethackish!
07:22:45 <Henzell> bhaak: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
07:22:51 <greensnark> bhaak: You mean Sporkish
07:22:53 <bhaak> !messages
07:22:53 <Henzell> (1/1) dpeg said (17h 30m 43s ago): Heizölrückstoßabdämpfung
07:22:59 <greensnark> Encoding fail
07:23:16 <bhaak> !tell dpeg Heiz�¶lr�¼cksto��abd�¤mpfung
07:23:16 <Henzell> bhaak: OK, I'll let dpeg know.
07:23:30 <Keskitalo> due: Besides, you just need to read them right. "My casters don't survive without Detect Creatures!" -> casters are going to pick up Ashenzari :>
07:23:38 <due> :)
07:24:07 <bhaak> greensnark: I wouldn't be suprised if the devteam would endorse such a bad joke :)
07:27:13 <kilobyte> it looks like Henzell runs some broken encoding...  if he either used Unicode or just passed strongs unmolested this wouldn't happen
07:27:24 <kilobyte> since dpeg's tell was correct
07:32:26 <bhaak> it's just double encoded
07:33:40 <bhaak> Ã ? Â ¶ -> Â ¶ -> ö
07:34:53 <bhaak> the second byte showed here as ? although it is 0x83=131 and in the unprintable range
07:35:09 <bhaak> *for latin1
07:38:35 <kilobyte> yeah, but since both the server and my client do Unicode correctly, and I've seen dpeg's original tell, the breakage must have occured in Henzell
07:38:49 <greensnark> Breakage is definitely in Henzell
07:39:02 <greensnark> dpeg's tell was correct
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07:43:49 <CIA-40> 03by * r2aa5da87db9f 10/crawl-ref/source/macro.cc: macro.cc: Correct some commands; formatting.
07:43:50 <CIA-40> 03by * r01ee71d19f94 10/crawl-ref/source/macro.cc: Apply macros to input buffer consistently.
07:44:29 <due> sleep
07:44:39 <kilobyte> bie
07:44:49 <due> goodnight :)
07:44:51 <greensnark> bai
07:45:07 <due> beye?
07:45:16 <due> baye? whatever :)
07:45:23 <greensnark> Hasta la vista
07:48:44 <kilobyte> I'm trying to track poison source.  What fields should be output?  Is {killer,kaux} enough?  Note that sources include miscasts and such.
07:54:16 <greensnark> killer+kaux sounds fine
07:54:50 <greensnark> I suppose additional poisoning when already poisoned will reset the source to the new poisoner?
08:00:44 <kilobyte> yeah, there's no need to be more exact since normal hp damage, hundreds of times more important, tracks only the last attacker too
08:03:37 <greensnark> Yep, sounds ok
08:03:48 <greensnark> You going to attach the entire blame chain?
08:04:00 <greensnark> (summoned by (summoned by (... )))
08:04:12 <kilobyte> not sure
08:04:23 <kilobyte> do they go to different fields?
08:04:53 <greensnark> Don't recall
08:04:56 <greensnark> !lg * ikiller=Ilsuiw
08:04:56 <Henzell> 8. crepe the Eclecticist (L14 HECj), worshipper of Vehumet, hit from afar by a merfolk javelineer (runed javelin of penetration) (led by Ilsuiw) on Shoals:5 on 2010-02-16, with 54327 points after 38980 turns and 2:53:21.
08:05:02 <greensnark> !lg * ikiller=Ilsuiw x=killer,ikiller
08:05:02 <Henzell> 8. [killer=a merfolk javelineer;ikiller=Ilsuiw] crepe the Eclecticist (L14 HECj), worshipper of Vehumet, hit from afar by a merfolk javelineer (runed javelin of penetration) (led by Ilsuiw) on Shoals:5 on 2010-02-16, with 54327 points after 38980 turns and 2:53:21.
08:05:51 <greensnark> Looks like 'killer' is the simple monster name without the blame chain
08:06:25 <greensnark> But apparently the full chain is stuffed into the verbose death message, shrug
08:06:52 <greensnark> I think there's a field for the blame chain, let me check
08:06:53 <kilobyte> the question is, which fields do you think should I fill out?
08:07:17 <greensnark> Ideally we'd have the killer and its blame chain
08:07:38 <greensnark> !lg * ikiller=Ilsuiw x=killer,ikiller,kpath
08:07:38 <Henzell> 8. [killer=a merfolk javelineer;ikiller=Ilsuiw;kpath=led by Ilsuiw] crepe the Eclecticist (L14 HECj), worshipper of Vehumet, hit from afar by a merfolk javelineer (runed javelin of penetration) (led by Ilsuiw) on Shoals:5 on 2010-02-16, with 54327 points after 38980 turns and 2:53:21.
08:07:52 <greensnark> killer,kpath,kaux should cover it
08:08:44 <kilobyte> right
08:09:03 <greensnark> Well, also ikiller :)
08:28:27 <Keskitalo> 62 problems in the UP report at the moment!
08:31:24 <greensnark> We want 3 digits
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08:40:34 <kilobyte> well, I think I'll skill all those extra fields.  Clouds/etc don't store that data, and even for direct poison there'll be huge code duplication or hackery since we'd need to store every single field when poisoning happens.
08:40:41 <kilobyte> s/skill/skip/
08:45:10 <dpeg> kilobyte: on unannounced, timed portal vaults, let's go with the two timers?
08:45:10 <Henzell> dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
08:45:13 <dpeg> !messages
08:45:13 <Henzell> (1/2) due said (1d 15h 47m 41s ago): I know :/
08:45:18 <dpeg> !messages
08:45:25 <Henzell> (1/1) bhaak said (1h 22m 6s ago): Heiz�¶lr�¼cksto��abd�¤mpfung
08:45:51 <bhaak> cool
08:46:04 <dpeg> bhaak: Kannst du meine Umlaute lesen? äöüß
08:46:21 <kilobyte> dpeg: that's the best idea IMO
08:46:36 <dpeg> kilobyte: yes, it seems to be very robust. I am fine with it.
08:46:37 <bhaak> dpeg: du hast keinen Fehler gemacht, von deiner seite ist es in ordnung, aber henzell faellt voll auf die fresse. Er enkodiert utf-8 eingaben NOCHMALS
08:46:52 <dpeg> ah, das wusste ich nicht - Entschuldigung
08:47:56 * Madtrixr understands half of the conversation going on.
08:50:12 <bhaak> I could start writing in dialect then you wouldn't understand anything, but dpeg probably wouldn't either :)
08:51:45 <Madtrixr> Yeah, don't.
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08:58:11 <Keskitalo> dpeg: 62 problems in the UP-team report right now!
08:59:25 <Madtrixr> O_O Did you guys throw an ADOM homage in Crawl? Cause I started a Mummy Wizard, and all of a sudden, I'm SURROUNDED by trees.
09:00:08 <Keskitalo> Trees are new in 0.6.
09:00:13 <ais523> Madtrixr: it's just an entry vault
09:00:52 <bhaak> why would trees be an ADOM homage?
09:01:26 -!- dpeg has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
09:02:01 <Madtrixr> I don't know.
09:02:03 -!- kilobyte has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
09:02:19 <Madtrixr> It's freaking cool is what it is.
09:02:35 <Madtrixr> I thought in ADOM ou started in a forest...
09:02:41 <Madtrixr> *you
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09:23:49 <Textmode> morning all
09:24:11 <nrook> good morning
09:25:29 <dpeg> Hi
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09:40:23 <kilobyte> Succumbed to poison (a naga mage) (poison arrow) -- looks ugly
09:40:34 <kilobyte> suggestions?
09:41:34 <dpeg> Succumbed to poison from a naga mage's poison arrow?
09:42:04 <Keskitalo> (a naga mage, poison arrow)
09:42:29 <CIA-40> 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r267dc185c114 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Don't place clouds when moving monsters away.
09:42:30 <CIA-40> 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * re18993eaa379 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Set spellcasting flags for polymorphed monsters.
09:42:33 <CIA-40> 03pointless_ 07stone_soup-0.6 * r8d46eec8a015 10/crawl-ref/settings/init.txt: Add a commented out line autoinscribing !e on fruit
09:42:34 <CIA-40> 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * rb14b32bdee1e 10/crawl-ref/source/l_food.cc: Add lua wrapper for is_fruit.
09:42:34 <dpeg> The full sentence probably needs many special cases.
09:42:35 <CIA-40> 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * rc2ecd349177b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/lua/stash.lua: Add ability to ^f and set annotations for fruit via Lua.
09:42:37 <CIA-40> 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r405c6c3bed81 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Fix Jiyva prayed_for check in do_god_gift.
09:42:38 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.6 * rcdf7a90597ba 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-project.cc: Fix IOODs disappearing above submerged monsters.
09:42:40 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.6 * r375267610cda 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/spells.txt: Mention that Poison Weapon doesn't work on blunt stuff.
09:42:42 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.6 * re967390e6834 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/spells.txt: Don't lie that Ozocubu's Armour "protects from cold".
09:42:45 <CIA-40> 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r7452b34d2b23 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Simplify tiles code in forget_map.
09:42:46 <CIA-40> 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r055a9da3c7d9 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Restore forget_map minimap update.
09:42:48 <CIA-40> 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * ra3876508297c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (show.cc showsymb.cc showsymb.h): Make get_mons_glyph return real colour by default.
09:42:50 <CIA-40> 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r6330f5431728 10/crawl-ref/source/message.cc: Only join short messages if both or neither ends in punctuation.
09:42:51 <CIA-40> 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r5bb9ed22dc61 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Shorten "no damage" messages a bit (doy, greensnark).
09:42:52 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.6 * rf80ebec09675 10/crawl-ref/source/colour.cc: Change earth elementals from brown/light red to brown/green.
09:42:53 <CIA-40> 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r8f96df4ff0c9 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Add new website to the changelog because why not?
09:42:54 <CIA-40> 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r77b6525cd9f9 10/crawl-ref/settings/init.txt: Add commented force_more for zapping empty wands.
09:43:33 <Keskitalo> Here I'm thinking, didn't we tweak CIA settings to not announce merges?
09:43:44 <dpeg> obviously not! :)
09:43:47 <kilobyte> these are cherry-picks not merges
09:44:12 <Keskitalo> Ah, that would explain it.
09:44:14 <doy> alright, tagged this as the first release candidate
09:44:14 <Henzell> doy: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
09:44:23 <Keskitalo> doy: \o/
09:44:56 <ais523> oh, that reminds me; is there any way to turn off elemental colours, and similar colour-variance?
09:45:09 <dpeg> The Divinations blog entry draws so much criticism.
09:45:12 <ais523> it's really hard to keep track of for bots
09:45:27 <ais523> also, from my attempt to develop a Crawl bot, I found a really weird interface inconsistency
09:45:28 <kilobyte> ais523: for monsters, just redefine them
09:45:35 <kilobyte> ais523: same for features
09:45:45 <ais523> kilobyte: OK, I thought of that; if that's the easiest way, I'll use it
09:45:57 <doy> Master branch on CDO updated to: 0.6.0-rc1 (16.6)
09:46:16 <Keskitalo> dpeg: Yeah, but as I said to due earlier, it needs to be read like this: "My casters don't survive without detect creatures!" -> casters will find Ashenzari useful. :)
09:46:42 <kilobyte> doy: what about taking the 2-handed acquirement fix?  79cfc3cb
09:46:45 <doy> !tell napkin can you mark this latest update as being the first release candidate?
09:46:45 <Henzell> doy: OK, I'll let napkin know.
09:47:06 <Napkin> where, doy?
09:47:08 <Henzell> Napkin: You have 5 messages. Use !messages to read them.
09:47:16 <Keskitalo> Hi Napkin!
09:47:17 <doy> kilobyte: just wasn't sure how comfortable we were with that fix overall
09:47:21 <Napkin> Eino :)
09:47:27 <doy> can pull it in if people think it's important
09:47:33 <doy> Napkin: the one i'm building now
09:47:33 <doy> (:
09:47:36 <dpeg> Keskitalo: I don't think that's true... Playing DC-less is not a challenge.
09:47:48 <doy> (but also in the dgl screen)
09:48:03 <Napkin> nice :) you mean the trunk website?
09:48:12 <doy> "my casters don't survive without detect creatures!" -> "you're doing it wrong"
09:48:15 <doy> Napkin: yes
09:48:22 <ais523> the issue is: suppose you kill two monsters at once, and they both drop items and corpses. Then, you have two piles of objects showing the top object inverse-video (a multiple-items brand). So far, so good. Now, you can use control-X to determine all items onscreen (including the ones lower down in the piles), and x to determine the top item of each pile; but you can't determine which item is in which pile, if it isn't on top of the pile
09:48:25 <kilobyte> doy: it's untested so it's indeed a bit unsure, but it's certainly better than the bug
09:49:05 <greensnark> Why is Ctrl-X revealing non-top-items?
09:49:10 <greensnark> I thought we discussed that before
09:49:12 <ais523> I'm not sure, but it is
09:49:15 <Keskitalo> greensnark: !!!
09:49:20 <doy> it shouldn't be
09:49:20 <greensnark> Hey Eino :)
09:49:24 <ais523> I noticed the inconsistency, I'm not sure which way to resolve it
09:49:35 <Keskitalo> I want my non-top items. :|
09:49:39 <doy> ^X shouldn't reveal non-top items
09:49:44 <doy> unless you've stepped on the pile
09:50:02 <ais523> it would be more consistent for it to show piles of items, rather than items
09:50:05 <dpeg> greensnark: yes, I thought we agree that Ctrl-X (or Ctrl-F) should not do that. :(
09:50:16 <greensnark> ^F? :P
09:50:19 <dpeg> ah, Keskitalo is to blame!
09:50:41 <Keskitalo> Explain the fun in hiding items in piles from Ctrl-F and Ctrl-X?
09:50:41 <greensnark> ^F respects item visibility correctly
09:50:48 <dpeg> greensnark: ok
09:50:53 <greensnark> You know only the top item until you step on the pile
09:51:14 <dpeg> Keskitalo: is it better to have players check piles from afar with Ctrl-X or to have them walk there?
09:51:20 <greensnark> I don't care which direction we choose to go, but we should be consistent
09:51:21 <dpeg> I believe walking is less trouble.
09:51:25 <syllogism> how does item visibility work anyway
09:51:30 <syllogism> does it use weight
09:51:51 <Keskitalo> I use Ctrl-X for that exact purpose, so I don't have to tediously check every pile.
09:52:01 <greensnark> Top item on the stack is the visible item, no weights involved
09:52:10 <dpeg> Keskitalo: and ideal play will demand in battle that you check Ctrl-X every time to see if the recently killed orc dropped some relevant potion.
09:52:40 <greensnark> If we adopt the new behaviour, we should also fix 'x' and the stash tracker
09:52:43 <Napkin> doy - you changed the naming scheme?
09:52:46 <greensnark> And probably greedy explore
09:52:46 <ais523> dpeg: put it this way, I had my bot control-Xing every turn for a while
09:52:51 <ais523> until I discovered the inconsistency
09:52:56 <doy> Napkin: yes, tagged this as a release candidate
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09:52:58 <dpeg> If you believe in autoexplore, then top item is better, imo.
09:52:59 <Keskitalo> Ah, I see.. I wouldn't do that so I didn't think of that. :)
09:53:06 <syllogism> so a titan corpse may be hiding under a strawberry? :P
09:53:08 <Napkin> but why rename the zip?
09:53:10 <greensnark> syllogism: Aye
09:53:11 <dpeg> Keskitalo: yes, but it *would* be optimal.
09:53:13 <Keskitalo> syllogism: <3
09:53:19 <Keskitalo> dpeg: Yes.
09:53:27 <Napkin> i mean.. why not keep git describe's notation?
09:53:35 <dpeg> syllogism: classical roguelike rules. Like the bat blocking the titan.
09:53:36 <doy> Napkin: that is git describe's notation
09:53:47 <doy> Napkin: it's just the first commit with a new tag name
09:53:50 <dpeg> Keskitalo: does that mean you're convinved now? :)
09:53:54 <Keskitalo> Okay, I'm ok with not showing the whole pile. :)
09:53:54 <Napkin> oh.. that's sucky
09:53:56 <doy> so it doesn't include anything but the tag
09:53:59 <dpeg> ha!
09:54:01 <Keskitalo> dpeg: Yeah.
09:54:20 * dpeg praises the sanity and congeniality of the Finns!
09:54:31 <ais523> IIRC, NetHack has explicit rules for which item in a pile is on top
09:54:37 <Keskitalo> Or maybe I'm just gullible!
09:54:45 <dpeg> ais523: how?
09:54:50 <ais523> by symbol, I think
09:54:55 <ais523> as in, % appears on top of !
09:54:59 <ais523> but my mind may be making that up
09:55:08 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev
09:55:17 <dpeg> hm, that's not a bad idea, and I am open for that, but it's an FR
09:55:21 <ais523> agreed
09:55:48 <dpeg> greensnark: is it hard to fix the Ctrl-X bug? (I.e. 0.6 or 0.7?)
09:55:50 <greensnark> Napkin: Use git describe --long to get the full version always?
09:56:16 <greensnark> dpeg: Should be pretty easy
09:56:27 <greensnark> So final call is to show only top item?
09:56:36 <dpeg> yes
09:56:37 <doy> ais523: no, nethack does it by stacking order
09:56:41 <greensnark> If we want to show stuff under the top item from the stash tracker it'll be a little more work
09:56:48 <doy> it's just that nethack generates corpses last
09:56:49 <ais523> doy: OK, I thought it was something weird
09:56:56 <doy> and crawl generates corpses first
09:57:18 <ais523> does that mean that things like sortloot can mess with the display in NetHack?
09:57:20 <dpeg> greensnark: don't understand...
09:57:36 <ais523> it would be ridiculous if you could see what was in a pile by saving, changing options, then loading again
09:57:37 <doy> ais523: don't think so
09:57:56 <doy> i think sortloot just rearranges the menu
09:58:04 <doy> not nethack's internal idea of stacking
09:58:15 <kilobyte> note that some builds disable stash tracking, and then we use that data for troves
09:58:47 <syllogism> it's kind of weird you don't see the corpse or what it's wearing
09:58:47 <greensnark> kilobyte: Stash tracker is no longer #ifdefed
09:59:15 <dpeg> syllogism: realism always takes a backseat in these considerations
09:59:16 <greensnark> And there's no way to change the stash_tracking level in config
09:59:28 <syllogism> yes, but is there a good reason not to show them
09:59:31 <greensnark> The option exists, but initfile.cc no longer sets it per user settings
09:59:32 <kilobyte> well, the guy who does an iPhone port said he had to disable it
09:59:46 <greensnark> iPad port?
09:59:52 <greensnark> Or is someone doing an iPhone port as well?
09:59:55 <dpeg> syllogism: yes, as I explained above
09:59:59 <syllogism> will read
10:00:19 <greensnark> I think troves fall back on generic extortion if they can't find anything pricey in stashes, so that's ok
10:00:26 <dpeg> yes
10:00:50 -!- marcmagus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
10:00:58 <dpeg> also, even a reduced build (without full stash tracking) could probably still track shop items
10:01:04 <greensnark> We need a trove that demands a ... shrubbery
10:01:07 <syllogism> oh I see, well I definitely wouldn't look at stacks anyway :P
10:01:13 <greensnark> "We are the troves that say 'Ni'!"
10:01:15 <syllogism> so anything works for me
10:01:19 <dpeg> syllogism: :)
10:01:44 <greensnark> Yeah, stash_tracking set to STM_NONE will still track shops
10:01:47 <ais523> greensnark: if so, it should fail to open on the shrubbery, and start making increasingly implausible demands instead
10:02:10 <dpeg> "The trove asks for the Holy Grail. You give it a rotten apple. The trove looks skeptical. 'Hey, that's the real deal', you insist. The trove opens."
10:02:18 <greensnark> One of these days we should sneak the legendary black beast of Aaaaargh in
10:03:00 <greensnark> Monty Python fork of DCSS
10:03:17 <ais523> put it in bad_ideas, so it's there for reference but nobody's tempted to actually use it
10:03:20 <greensnark> Paladins will start with a pair of coconut shells
10:03:37 <dpeg> There should be a day when Paladins are no more.
10:04:08 <syllogism> now that testudines are in we need to decide our next target
10:04:33 <greensnark> testudine martial artists?
10:04:44 <dpeg> What did I actually get for the testudines? Damn, I forgot.
10:04:53 <greensnark> dpeg: We removed Divinations
10:05:00 -!- karmatic has joined ##crawl-dev
10:05:00 <greensnark> Quid pro quo
10:05:09 <dpeg> greensnark: no, I got something else.
10:05:24 <greensnark> "oRS? :P
10:05:28 <syllogism> oh so we didn't get anything for the divinations removal
10:05:30 <dpeg> ah, yes!
10:05:31 <dpeg> thanks
10:05:45 <dpeg> syllogism: no, the Div removal is a free gift for everyone.
10:05:45 <greensnark> Ok, so we need something to compensate for Div removal
10:05:49 <greensnark> I propose Lobster god
10:05:56 <dpeg> There will be a spider god.
10:06:48 <greensnark> Crawl doesn't have enough cool spiders
10:06:50 <syllogism> ducks,rabbits,alpaca?
10:06:56 <greensnark> And trapdoor spiders are not very cool :P
10:07:01 <syllogism> caerbannog the rabbit unique
10:07:05 <greensnark> Alpaca!
10:07:05 -!- marcmagus has joined ##crawl-dev
10:07:06 <dpeg> greensnark: no, unfortunately not
10:07:17 <greensnark> Alpaca and llama
10:07:20 <dpeg> greensnark: but if we get Keskitalo's spider branch, there will be webs.
10:07:25 <dpeg> okapi
10:07:26 <greensnark> Also someone proposed dire penguins, can we add those
10:07:32 <syllogism> yess
10:07:48 <doy> hmmm, i should write up a news post about the release candidate
10:07:51 <doy> maybe this evening
10:07:53 <dpeg> warthog and thwarthog
10:08:01 <dpeg> doy: thank you!
10:08:02 <doy> have to actually get to work now
10:08:03 <doy> (:
10:08:31 <Napkin> ok, thanks, greensnark :)
10:08:33 <Napkin> done, doy
10:08:39 <doy> Napkin: awesome(:
10:08:58 <dpeg> trapdoor spiders have submerging aches
10:09:02 <greensnark> Yaaay, RC
10:09:10 <greensnark> Soon we will have 0.6!
10:09:20 <greensnark> And CDO will run master, more importantly :)
10:09:25 <dpeg> I like it that 0.7 already has some content.
10:09:35 <greensnark> I have experiments I wish to conduct on master ttyrecs
10:09:52 <dpeg> greensnark: please remove the blood afterwards. THank you!
10:10:02 <doy> Napkin: the trunk page doesn't show the rc?
10:10:05 <greensnark> "You see a ttyrec spattered with blood here"
10:10:12 <Napkin> it does ;)
10:10:19 <ortoslon> i skimmed through 0.7 roadmap, combat maneuvers seem so exciting
10:10:25 <Napkin> ahh, the download doesn't
10:10:29 <Napkin> of course not...
10:10:31 <dpeg> ortoslon: that's nowhere a roadmap :)
10:10:32 <greensnark> Is there a 0.7 roadmap?
10:10:34 <dpeg> That's a wishlist.
10:10:39 <dpeg> greensnark: NO!
10:10:40 <ortoslon> :)
10:10:40 <ais523> ortoslon: gah, you're stealing a name with negative connotations from Slash'EM
10:10:54 <greensnark> Yeah, there's way too much in that list for 0.7 :)
10:10:57 <ortoslon> stealing?
10:11:06 <greensnark> Unless 0.7 is going to run for 1+ years, which is way too long :P
10:11:12 <dpeg> greensnark: I'll sort that out, once the 0.6 dust has settled.
10:11:14 <ais523> actually, in Slash'EM they're called "techniques", so I'm even wrong about that
10:11:31 <greensnark> Slash'EM techniques are hilarious
10:11:31 <ais523> greensnark: you just have to manage less than 7 :)
10:11:36 <dpeg> Crucial -- Cool to have (Patches, chop chop!) -- Rest
10:11:47 <greensnark> There's a monk technique called "chained blitz" that allows you to instakill Master Kaen
10:11:53 <ortoslon> my name has nothing to do with slash'em, it was born in a scrabble-like word game
10:11:58 <greensnark> The balancing factor is that you have to read the spoiler to know how to use it
10:12:13 <dpeg> greensnark: and you have to press all those keys?
10:12:17 <greensnark> It involves entering a series of cryptic codes in a specific order
10:12:30 <dpeg> Such a criminally stupid idea :)
10:12:39 <ais523> greensnark: the other balancing factor is it takes several thousand turns to charge up
10:12:43 <ais523> but yes, it is a criminally stupid idea
10:12:47 <ais523> even by NetHack standards
10:12:50 <ais523> we laugh at it in #nethack too
10:13:31 <doy> ais523: see also: all of slashem
10:13:34 <dpeg> ais523: someone was in "c00l, gotta code that" mode, without thinking before, during or after the implementation
10:13:50 <ais523> doy: I imagine some of Slash'EM's ideas are good purely by chance; they added in more or less everything anyone thought of
10:14:01 <ais523> and it would be an incredible coincidence if /all/ of them were bad
10:14:29 <ais523> dpeg: definitely; you say in your paper about roguelikes that Slash'EM possibly deliberately has a silly power spiral, and I'm pretty sure it's deliberate
10:14:39 <Madtrixr> Chianed blitz? for some reason, reminds me of what I played of FF4...if my memory serves me.
10:15:01 <ais523> Madtrixr: it's taken from fighting games, rather than roguelikes
10:15:06 <Madtrixr> Right.
10:15:12 <ais523> the only thing that doesn't surprise me about it is that you don't have a limited amount of time to type in the key sequence
10:15:30 <doy> Napkin: if you want to always get the full name, use "git describe --long"
10:15:39 <doy> but it may be a bit late for that now
10:15:40 <doy> (:
10:15:48 <doy> for future reference though
10:16:02 <Napkin> 16:55 <+ greensnark> Napkin: Use git describe --long to get the full version always?
10:16:11 <Napkin> yes, i added that to the update script
10:16:29 <doy> ah, wasn't paying that close attention
10:16:29 <doy> (:
10:16:42 <Napkin> :)
10:18:33 <greensnark> !coffee
10:18:34 * Henzell hands greensnark a mug of café au lait, brewed by Nikola.
10:20:02 <Napkin> ok, python script updated too, doy
10:20:06 <Napkin> !coffee
10:20:06 * Henzell hands Napkin a barrel of black coffee, brewed by the Serpent of Hell.
10:20:09 <Napkin> \o/
10:22:07 <doy> Napkin++
10:22:09 <doy> (:
10:24:26 <greensnark> Napkin: Are the blog links on the front page autogenerated?
10:24:38 <greensnark> Because the divinations post isn't linked on the front page
10:24:47 <doy> greensnark: those are news post links
10:24:59 <doy> the divinations post isn't a news post
10:25:24 <greensnark> Hmm, what's the difference?
10:25:34 <dpeg> Despite this, it attracted ten bullets :)
10:25:37 -!- by has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
10:26:39 <greensnark> dpeg: The removal of Detect Creatures will spark a new French Revolution! P
10:26:41 <dpeg> The last guy threatened to use the dig spell and perforate all levels, in the search for hidden rooms :)
10:26:53 <dpeg> greensnark: cannot have enough French revolutions.
10:27:13 <dpeg> If you will now excuse me, I'd rather watch the revolutionary spectacle from Switzerland.
10:28:22 <dpeg> Of course, him saying that immediately caused me to ask: do we really need the spell of digging? For what reason do we provide a billion wands of digging every year?
10:28:51 <ais523> people use them when stuck in dead-ends, to give time for teleport to kick in
10:29:06 <nrook> To save everyone entombed by the monthly "somebody's trapped in Orc" bug?
10:29:29 <dpeg> You cannot get trapped in Orc anymore!?
10:29:42 <nrook> Or so we think. :p
10:30:17 <dpeg> Seriously, how often is the Dig spell used?
10:30:39 <greensnark> I've used it once
10:30:47 <nrook> pretty much never, from what I can tell
10:30:48 <greensnark> When I got stuck in Orc and fortunately had a book with the spell in my bubble
10:30:56 <greensnark> Back in b26 :P
10:31:12 <MarvinPA> i learnt it on my earth elementalists for a while
10:31:17 <MarvinPA> then realised there was no point
10:31:31 <dpeg> So we need a replacement for the digging spell.
10:31:56 <ortoslon> rock worm form? :)
10:32:16 <MarvinPA> yeah, living off sandblast and stoneskin until you get LRD castable is kinda boring
10:32:33 <dpeg> okay, ideas welcome :)
10:32:39 <dpeg> SF probably has some...
10:33:06 <syllogism> i use it all the time if I get it early on and I've slots free
10:33:55 <ais523> dpeg: what about in labyrinths?
10:34:20 <ais523> there are a few vaults designed to be dug into, too
10:34:34 <dpeg> I am just saying that the spell is less attractive because of the wand.
10:34:35 <greensnark> ais523: I presume wands of digging will remain
10:34:41 <dpeg> of course
10:34:51 <greensnark> Or eliminate wands of digging :P
10:34:59 <greensnark> And leave the spell :P
10:35:05 <nrook> unfortunately all of the fun rune vaults seem to be undiggable
10:35:06 <dpeg> generally, consumables > spells
10:35:06 <syllogism> plus you can always accomplish the same with LRD or summon elemental, it's just more tedious
10:35:35 <greensnark> dpeg: But every character will find the same consumables :P
10:35:40 <greensnark> Not everyone will memorise the same spells
10:36:16 <ais523> it's the tradeoff between letting people make choices, and making choices for them at random
10:36:33 <dpeg> come on
10:36:41 <greensnark> Give the player the orb on D:1 and let them make the choice of going to Zot:5 anyway
10:36:48 <greensnark> So that we don't take away their choices :P
10:37:00 <ais523> I'm not sure where on that scale Crawl should be
10:37:06 <greensnark> I mean right now, everyone *has* to go to Zot:5
10:37:12 <greensnark> Where's the choice
10:37:20 <dpeg> That's oppression, yes.
10:37:25 <greensnark> This is a tyrannical design decision that ignores player freedom of choice
10:37:28 <ais523> they can choose sooner or later
10:37:29 <Napkin> is someone motivated to do a blog entry about 0.6 release candidate?
10:37:35 <greensnark> Napkin: doy's doing it!
10:37:39 <greensnark> First doy post!
10:37:44 <greensnark> We should break out the champagne
10:37:45 <Napkin> last time I added a play-testing posting to the news because..
10:37:48 <Napkin> ahh, great :D
10:37:54 <Napkin> go, doy, go! :D
10:37:55 <dpeg> doy's been a really good release manager
10:38:03 <dpeg> he deserves a blog entry
10:39:02 <ais523> I know, let's go the other way
10:39:07 <ais523> the only thing you do all game is press o
10:39:12 <ais523> and if you're lucky, you get the Orb
10:39:21 <greensnark> I already proposed this!
10:39:23 <Napkin> and yes - blog & news entries got separated.. idea is to have blog posts not hide the important news posts.
10:39:24 <greensnark> DWIM key <3
10:39:27 <ais523> hmm... it doesn't really work at either extreme
10:39:36 <greensnark> I think Jeff Lait did a game based on this :)
10:39:56 <ais523> greensnark: I'm busy trying to implement that atm, by the way
10:39:58 <dpeg> Napkin: but in the long run, the blog entries are more interesting
10:40:02 <Napkin> but the front page needs to be modified again. It needs an About page.. then I will add blog section too
10:40:14 <ais523> but Crawl's interface is actually really hostile to a bot, it's really hard to tell even something as simple as where corpses are
10:40:24 <ais523> I found the control-X bug while trying to deal with that problem
10:41:07 <dpeg> ais523: that is because we design for human players.
10:41:16 <greensnark> !tell greensnark Heizölrückstoßabdämpfung
10:41:16 <Henzell> greensnark: OK, I'll let greensnark know.
10:41:17 <ais523> I know
10:41:36 <dpeg> greensnark: hey, you got it!
10:41:41 <ais523> it's amazing how inconsistent Crawl's interface actually is, it's much worse than NetHack's
10:41:48 <syllogism> are you serious
10:41:57 <ais523> syllogism: in terms of inconsistency, yes
10:42:01 <ais523> it terms of playability, no
10:42:03 -!- ais523 was kicked from ##crawl-dev by dpeg [Shut up please.]
10:42:18 <greensnark> dpeg: Cool it, let's see if he has valid points?
10:42:18 <Henzell> greensnark: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
10:42:34 <greensnark> We can always improve :)
10:42:38 <dpeg> greensnark: sure, but you ask him.
10:42:53 <dpeg> I think he's an annoying little NH fanboy :)
10:42:54 <greensnark> He does tend to be more provocative than necessary, admittedly :P
10:43:09 <greensnark> Yeah, he's stated he likes Crawl less, but nevertheless
10:43:10 <dpeg> I am happy he pointed out the Ctrl-X bug, though.
10:43:55 <Napkin> which one of those? :>
10:44:14 <dpeg> Napkin: Ctrl-X shows full stacks.
10:45:01 <nrook> ha, I saw that and thought it was intentional =/
10:46:26 <greensnark> Well "intentional" in Crawl is tricky, because there are lots of devs :)
10:46:36 <greensnark> It may well have been intentional when written
10:47:00 <greensnark> dpeg: Shall I fix ^X then?
10:47:14 <dpeg> yes please
10:48:25 <greensnark> !tell greensnark Heizölrückstoßabdämpfung
10:48:25 <Henzell> greensnark: OK, I'll let greensnark know.
10:48:36 <greensnark> Merde
10:48:36 <Henzell> greensnark: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them.
10:51:32 <dpeg> greensnark: Erik is playing on the server.
10:51:48 <greensnark> !cdo
10:51:48 <Gretell> moq (L27 @ Lair:1, T:175649), slickrick (L27 @ Geh:7, T:147028), MarvinPA (L15 @ Swamp:5, T:37632), noom (L14 @ Swamp:3, T:37359), splat (L14 @ D:12, T:34738), Chigusa (L13 @ Orc:3, T:29693), Zicher (L10 @ D:9, T:10152), polystyrus (L9 @ D:8, T:10777), Arcturus (L7 @ D:6, T:4808), Madtrixr (L7 @ D:6, T:4530), Turgor (L5 @ D:3, T:3414), unreal (L5 @ D:3, T:4761), casmith789 (L4 @ D:4, T:2775), murphyslaw (L4 @ D:3, T:17
10:52:28 <greensnark> Aha
10:53:36 <dpeg> HE doesn't like the _ at the start of messages :)
10:54:09 <greensnark> Hey, I have company in the Luddite League :P
10:55:29 <Cryp71c> dpeg, alrighty, now that I've won a game, I'll get back to contributing :P
10:55:47 <doy> 16:23 <@scarf> I also play Crawl sometimes, but normally not to win (which is incredibly boring), instead I generally do Abyss runs or pacifist games
10:55:48 <dpeg> Cryp71c: yay!
10:55:59 <doy> this is why i don't particularly care about his opinions
10:55:59 <doy> (:
10:56:17 <dpeg> not playing to win is okay, but "incredibly boring" <3
10:56:38 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * rb2597cb50476 10/crawl-ref/source/ (14 files): Track the source of poison, for death messages.
10:56:48 <doy> i mean, that quote is straight out of kpd's mouth
10:58:46 <dpeg> doy: only a matter of time until Crawl has similarly devoted lunatics as players(?), followers(?), bystanders.
10:59:50 <greensnark> doy: Wow :)
11:00:18 <greensnark> He does have really weird thought processes
11:00:59 <greensnark> But damn, I'm curious about the inconsistent user interface :)
11:01:18 <dpeg> ais=scarf?
11:01:40 <greensnark> Yes
11:02:04 <doy> 16:27 <@scarf> hmm, where /is/ dpeg's article about philosophy?
11:02:04 <doy> 16:28 <@scarf> I need to download that and save a copy
11:02:05 <doy> 16:28 <@scarf> and then show that NetHack fits his design goals better than Crawl does
11:02:07 <doy> (:
11:02:25 <greensnark> What what
11:02:29 <greensnark> !
11:03:18 <eith> lol
11:03:37 <dpeg> The man's got a mission.
11:04:26 <Madtrixr> Oh my god.
11:04:27 <doy> 16:27 <@scarf> it's just every time I see a change which is obviously necessary for balance, a bit of me dies inside
11:04:31 <nrook> I would be very curious to see an attempt at showing that :)
11:04:43 <doy> anyway
11:04:44 <doy> (:
11:04:52 <greensnark> doy: That's an awesome list of quotes :)
11:04:58 <dpeg> nrook: it would be a waste of time. Time much better spent crawling. Or drinking.
11:05:21 <Madtrixr> Is he trying to kill crawl by taking away you guys to work on a project that is at this point DNF'ed?
11:05:46 <dpeg> Madtrixr: as if that would happen.
11:05:51 <doy> oh, one more
11:05:52 <Madtrixr> I hope not.
11:05:52 <doy> 16:39 <@scarf> now, in NetHack, the monsters are not the major problem you face, so it doesn't matter that you can melee most of them to death so much
11:05:55 <doy> 16:39 <@scarf> in Crawl, they are, so if you have a reliable way of clearing them out, the game just becomes za.za.za.za.za.za.ooooooooooza.za.za.za.za.oooooooo
11:06:06 <dpeg> Don't know what his agena is, but he has to stop telling us how make our game.
11:06:10 <dpeg> +to
11:06:25 <nrook> wait, does he do this all the time?
11:06:27 * Madtrixr likes DNF'ed.
11:06:28 <dpeg> Techno!
11:06:40 <Cryp71c> has he ever won a game of crawl?
11:06:46 <doy> Cryp71c: no
11:06:48 <dpeg> of course not
11:06:48 <Cryp71c> lol
11:06:54 <doy> i don't think he's gotten past xl10 or so
11:07:05 <Cryp71c> I was wondering that, since he's talking about 'o' ing to the orb
11:07:12 <Madtrixr> Cryp71c: Why would he?
11:07:18 <dpeg> He is clearly not our target audience. Which is absolutely okay, only he doesn't shut up.
11:07:56 <Cryp71c> Madtrixr, well the presumption is that either a) He's an idiot, making broad, sweeping negative comments about a game he doesn't play and hasn't even come close to winning or b) he's won and actually has some perspective on improvements to the game.
11:08:02 <greensnark> doy: Wait, so what does he think the major problem in NH is?
11:08:04 <Cryp71c> I thought he might be B, but apparently he's A
11:08:13 <greensnark> dpeg: I still want to know what is inconsistent!
11:08:25 <dpeg> greensnark: --> #nethack :)
11:08:39 <greensnark> Eeek, don't make me go there :P
11:08:44 <Madtrixr> lol
11:08:48 <Madtrixr> DO EET.
11:08:50 <greensnark> All right, I just have to know
11:08:55 <dpeg> You can find him there, in his den, among his friends.
11:08:57 <Madtrixr> lol
11:09:08 * Madtrixr is going if greens going
11:09:09 -!- dpeg is now known as okapi
11:09:34 <Cryp71c> okapi, I vote we rename Yiuf to be Scarf...so we'd have Crazy Scarf
11:09:44 <okapi> no, won't happen :)
11:09:46 <Cryp71c> lol
11:09:56 <Madtrixr> Great idea, but no.
11:10:01 <okapi> #nethack is full, holy Jesus
11:10:08 <Cryp71c> I know, was only a joke :P
11:10:14 <Madtrixr> it's FULL?
11:10:17 <Madtrixr> !?!?
11:10:34 <okapi> 258 guys
11:10:42 <Madtrixr> Youch.
11:11:01 <doy> in other news, http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/closer-and-closer-to-0-6
11:11:48 <Madtrixr> Yay.
11:12:24 <syllogism> how do they still attract that many
11:12:37 <Madtrixr> I want to know too.
11:12:37 <syllogism> variants?
11:12:39 <nrook> because nethack is a fun game until your first win
11:12:49 <syllogism> yes but I bet most of those are regulars
11:12:56 <doy> syllogism: historical reasons is my guess
11:13:13 <doy> playing nethack is just one of those things that's generally accepted as "part of nerd culture"
11:13:41 <greensnark> Ok, so ais does have a point with regard to inconsistency :)
11:13:52 <doy> greensnark: what point is that?
11:13:55 <Madtrixr> I guess.
11:14:02 <greensnark> He correctly points out that monster names are handled differently in the monster list and other places like ^X
11:14:02 <ortoslon> amount of *bands is more frightening
11:14:13 <Madtrixr> ortoslon: Oh god.,,
11:14:16 <Madtrixr> *...
11:14:24 <doy> greensnark: how so?
11:14:28 <bhaak> ortoslon: there are no *bands player, only *bands variant developer :)
11:14:35 <ortoslon> exactly
11:14:46 <Madtrixr> Lessee...X,Z,M, Steam, O...
11:14:51 <ortoslon> Un
11:14:55 <ortoslon> Cth
11:15:07 <Madtrixr> Cthangband?
11:15:07 <ortoslon> Iron, Quick, S...
11:15:09 <greensnark> doy: Statuses etc are handled differently in the two places, I think
11:15:10 <Madtrixr> lolwut?
11:15:13 <nrook> there are a bunch of tomes, no?
11:15:16 <doy> ah, right
11:15:16 <bhaak> doy: that one? http://people.msoe.edu/~brayshaj/files/irdc/irdc.2008.David.Ploog.v2.pdf
11:15:18 <greensnark> I know that mlist had its own code path for monster names entirely
11:15:51 <doy> bhaak: yes, you linked it to him at the time
11:15:52 <doy> (:
11:16:21 <ortoslon> link to this from the homepage
11:16:29 <greensnark> doy: Nice post, but too short :)
11:16:35 <bhaak> doy: yes. I just can't read, that's all :-)
11:16:51 <doy> greensnark: pshh, i do have to actually get to work at some point(:
11:18:25 <paxed> syllogism: and most of ##crawl aren't regulars? ;)
11:18:28 <greensnark> I searched the post twice, but saw no mention of Heizölrückstoßabdämpfung
11:18:58 <okapi> doy: First post, yay! :)
11:19:26 <syllogism> paxed: yes, but crawl gets frequent updates
11:19:35 <paxed> syllogism: also, NAO is huge.
11:19:35 <Cryp71c> okapi, need to establish 'tiers' for scale mutations, I don't think its appropriate for some tiers to be t3 (as they are currently implemented, though IDK if tier is used at all)
11:19:40 <Cryp71c> all Scales are T2?
11:19:47 <Cryp71c> or even T1
11:20:01 <Cryp71c> they're not character-defining, and most of the time they won't even influence your character's build.
11:20:30 <okapi> Cryp71c: yes, scales should be Tier 1 or 2
11:20:52 <okapi> paxed: we will get you some day :)
11:21:14 <greensnark> paxed sticks with NH because NH doesn't give him the slightest inclination to actually play the game
11:21:21 <okapi> hehe
11:21:28 <paxed> damn, greensnark found me out.
11:21:28 <okapi> so paxed can focus on dgl?
11:21:31 <doy> (:
11:21:57 <paxed> (actually, nethack because i once looked at crawl's source...)
11:22:31 <nrook> the only place more dangerous than the Tomb of the Ancients: mon-act.cc
11:22:34 <Madtrixr> lol
11:22:34 <paxed> and i suck at crawl
11:23:07 <Twinge> paxed: So clearly you should change Crawl so that you're better at it right? ;)
11:23:11 <okapi> paxed: lorimer didn't, though :)
11:23:33 <nrook> (I've been here for like 90 minutes and I still haven't figured out why arrows don't magically fly to their targets, skipping everything in their path)
11:23:53 <greensnark> nrook: You're looking at hte portal projective code? :P
11:24:22 <nrook> greensnark: trying to implement it, actually! Which is unfortunate, as the code makes it look like it's already implemented for everybody :p
11:24:59 <paxed> i kinda like crawl, really, and it's one of the reasons why i _don't_ want to get myself involved. i've got too little free time as it is.
11:25:01 <ortoslon> i'll try to win 0.6 before moving to testing 0.7. last time i played carelessly with a spriggan with a +9,+9 lajatang of speed, i was killed by a yaktaur pack
11:25:13 <Madtrixr> paxed: Heh.
11:25:26 <okapi> paxed: that's a good reason
11:25:41 <okapi> I never try new games for the same reason.
11:25:56 <paxed> maybe when i win in the national lottery and dodn't have to work for money ;)
11:26:19 <Madtrixr> lol
11:28:29 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
11:29:15 <bhaak> greensnark: next time, you can also go to #unnethack, ais is usually there, too
11:29:28 <nrook> there's an #unnethack? I suppose I'm not surprised
11:29:28 <ortoslon> okapi: there're many new simple games that don't require much investment. but it seems you're not interested in simpler games
11:29:51 <okapi> ortoslon: that's not true. I played Amorphous like a madmen when I heard of it.
11:30:02 <okapi> The problem is they're timesinks, too.
11:30:14 <Madtrixr> "one more game" syndrome
11:30:34 <Cryp71c> okapi, hrm, AC is (in the code) 100x larger than it is displayed on screen?
11:30:43 <Cryp71c> eg, 10 AC is actually10000 in player.cc?
11:30:44 <bhaak> nrook: it's like ##crawl-dev, only smaller
11:30:51 <okapi> Cryp71c: I am not a coder :/
11:30:55 <Cryp71c> ohyeah
11:31:02 <Cryp71c> change your named back, you're confusing me! :P
11:31:04 <Cryp71c> doy, ?
11:31:08 <Cryp71c> do you have any idea
11:31:14 <okapi> gotta part out of #nethack first
11:31:20 <Cryp71c> sneaky sneaky
11:31:29 -!- okapi is now known as dpeg
11:31:40 * doy points at greensnark
11:31:59 <bhaak> I'd say "sneaky" is something different: *** okapi (~dpeg@dis.angband.pl) has left channel #nethack: #nethack
11:32:08 <dpeg> bhaak: :)
11:32:16 <dpeg> I was too lazy to log in from somewhere else.
11:32:18 <bhaak> although the angband part might fool some people
11:32:59 <bhaak> freenode has a okay IRC web client for such things :-)
11:34:08 <jarpiain> Cryp71c: without the factor there was a sudden in AC when you got armour skill 15
11:34:37 <Cryp71c> jarpiain, sudden what? increase?
11:34:55 <dpeg> Cryp71c: ah, AC is internally amplified to smoothen numbers.
11:35:12 <jarpiain> boots, gloves, helmet have 1 base AC
11:35:26 <jarpiain> 15 skill gives exactly 100% more
11:35:54 <jarpiain> so if you do truncate it down for each item you get nothing for < 15 skill
11:36:02 <Cryp71c> gotcha
11:36:08 <Cryp71c> instead of the fractional gain you would've otherwise had.
11:36:11 <jarpiain> *sudden jump in AC
11:36:13 <Cryp71c> yeah
11:36:38 <greensnark> Should just use floating point there
11:38:21 <kilobyte> floating point = random increases at either .0 or .5
11:38:38 <kilobyte> fixed point calculations have no such surprises
11:39:31 <greensnark> Random increases?
11:40:10 <greensnark> Specifically, what's random?
11:40:18 <dpeg> the rounding
11:40:40 <kilobyte> Sometimes you'll get AC of 0.999999 due to round-off errors.
11:40:59 <greensnark> It would finally be rounded to an integer
11:41:03 <kilobyte> and changing that to rounding at 0.5 will just shift the point where errors happen
11:41:29 <greensnark> Hm, I'm not entirely convinced
11:42:44 <greensnark> Should at least use a fixed-point class to wrap the math
11:43:07 <greensnark> I wrote the fixed-point math for AC, but it's a maintenance problem waiting to happen
11:43:17 <kilobyte> you could round at an irrational number or a rational one which is guaranteed to never happen with all possible denominators, but that'd be ugly
11:44:50 <kilobyte> with a wrapper class, we'll have casts in every expressions
11:45:09 <greensnark> Why so?
11:45:36 <greensnark> You can use std::complex fine without casts in most expressions
11:45:51 <greensnark> To convert the final number back, sure, but that's a one-off
11:46:22 <kilobyte> AC += (300 + 100 * skills[SK_NECROMANCY] / 6); would be AC += (3 + ((my_fixed_point_number)skills[SK_NECROMANCY]) / 6);
11:47:19 <greensnark> 3 + fixed_point(skills[SK_NECROMANCY], 100) / 6, sure
11:47:30 <greensnark> I think that's clearer than the current magic factor of 100 * though :)
11:48:38 <kilobyte> that's possible
11:49:21 <kilobyte> anyway, no matter how you do fixed point calculations, they have none of the pitfalls of floating point
11:49:56 <greensnark> I agree when dealing with tricky math for currency and stuff
11:50:15 <greensnark> I'm not convinced that floating point is disastrous for one-off AC calc
11:51:30 <greensnark> It is unnecessarily slow on embedded devices, though
11:51:49 <greensnark> I'd be interested to see how fast Crawl runs on the iPad :P
11:52:05 <greensnark> Crawl needs some axe work with profiler
11:52:12 <kilobyte> two day long compilations :p
11:52:18 <Cryp71c> greensnark, someone has a branch to make it for the iPad
11:52:18 <doy> by did a bit a few weeks ago
11:52:21 <Keskitalo> Enchanted rods recharge at a really fast pace..
11:52:33 <Cryp71c> Keskitalo, how fast?
11:52:39 <greensnark> Enchant ur r0dz
11:52:44 <Cryp71c> lol snark
11:53:06 <greensnark> !learn add Keskitalo <+Keskitalo> Enchanted rods recharge at a really fast pace..
11:53:06 <Henzell> keskitalo[2/2]: <+Keskitalo> Enchanted rods recharge at a really fast pace..
11:53:23 <greensnark> Rods are just made for double entendres
11:53:25 <Keskitalo> It wasn't that funny. :P
11:53:28 <greensnark> Practically everything about them is hilarious
11:53:28 <Cryp71c> ??kekitalo
11:53:28 <Henzell> I don't have a page labeled kekitalo in my learndb.
11:53:45 <Cryp71c> ??keskitalo
11:53:45 <Henzell> eino[1/2]: Crawler with a rather long history, made many vaults and maintains trunk binaries.  Also known as evktalo and Keskitalo.  Web site at http://crawl.develz.org/trunk
11:54:04 <kilobyte> yeah... and when Haran said that re-calculating stats at every use would be the best idea, I don't agree.  That would require ~10 scans through the inventory, looking at every facet of worn items and artefacts -- including checking for melding, and that checks airborne() which, guess what, scans the inventory again.
11:54:04 <Keskitalo> "web site" :)
11:54:44 <Cryp71c> kilobyte, every use of what?
11:54:44 <Keskitalo> Cryp71c: I evoked for DMsl, fought the battle, not that many turns after I get the "recharged" message.
11:54:49 <Keskitalo> +5.
11:54:59 <doy> kilobyte: well, there's a middle ground there
11:55:21 <doy> being able to say "recalculate stats" rather than "increase str by 5" and then having to remember to decrease it properly later would be a win
11:55:29 <kilobyte> current code breaks a lot, so indeed a middle ground would be nice
11:55:48 <kilobyte> exactly, that's what I have on mind
11:56:56 <Cryp71c> Keskitalo, that doesn't sound inappropriate, its a heavily enchanted rod. If they didn't recharge at least somewhat quickly, they'd be useless.
11:57:07 <ortoslon> hmm i'll probably get indiegames.com/blog to post about 0.6 when it's release
11:57:12 <kilobyte> I implemented this: "This FR applies to untimely deaths only, not wins. I think in highscores there should be number of runes found during the game instead of number of runes carried in the moment of death. No player drags them all with him unless he's on the way out."
11:57:18 <kilobyte> yet now I have doubts
11:57:27 <ortoslon> Keskitalo: will results of usability project go in 0.7?
11:57:43 <Keskitalo> Cryp71c: Yeah. Finding one on the floor (okay, it's V:8 loot) is a bit xmasy. :)
11:57:44 <kilobyte> it could confuse players into thinking they don't need to take the runes with them
11:58:30 <kilobyte> (mantis 962, I quoted it in entirety)
11:59:17 <Cryp71c> kilobyte, sounds like a goood implementation, I don't see a very big probabilty for the player confusion you're referring ot.
11:59:28 <Cryp71c> s/ot/to
11:59:32 <doy> i do
11:59:53 <kilobyte> and it can result in nrune=0 urune=15
12:00:10 <doy> if runes are reported for non-wins, even if you're not carrying them, people will assume that carrying the runes out of the dungeon isn't necessary
12:00:19 <doy> when that is an important aspect of score
12:00:59 <doy> the runes you've found are noted in your morgues anyway, if you're interested in that
12:01:10 <kilobyte> they don't get reported on the death screen, but get put into Henzell's database
12:01:26 <doy> and in tournaments or whatever, can track things by milestones anyway
12:01:34 <kilobyte> !lg * ktyp!=winning s=urune
12:01:51 <Henzell> 554931 games for * (ktyp!=winning): 552916x 0, 791x 1, 582x 3, 398x 2, 173x 4, 44x 5, 10x 6, 5x 7, 3x 15, 3x 8, 2x 9, 2x 11, 1x 12, 1x 13
12:02:08 <Keskitalo> ortoslon: I hope so. :>
12:03:29 <greensnark> !lm * type=rune lg:urune=0
12:03:43 <kilobyte> so, should I push it for Henzell's sake?
12:05:18 <Henzell> 7059. [2010-03-08] polystyrus the Covert (L17 VpSt) found a decaying rune of Zot on turn 54419. (Swamp:5)
12:06:13 <greensnark> So the change would be to report number of runes found in urune but number of runes carried in nrune?
12:06:46 <greensnark> Also, I do carry my runes at all times :P
12:06:49 <greensnark> My preciouss
12:06:51 <kilobyte> either that or changing both to runes found
12:07:12 <kilobyte> playing trolls/centaurs exclusively? :p
12:07:26 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:07:49 <greensnark> I haven't found many runes since the CC changes, true :P
12:08:11 * Madtrixr has never found a rune...
12:08:17 <Madtrixr> I'll get there eventually.
12:08:49 <bhaak> don't be sad, me neither
12:09:02 <Madtrixr> Lets see...
12:09:09 <Madtrixr> !highscore
12:09:13 * greensnark hands bhaak the runesword Stormbringer.
12:09:16 <ortoslon> i won three times but that was in a version where some vaults were missing (bug)
12:09:25 <ortoslon> so those aren't real wins
12:09:47 <bhaak> The fiery blade attacks greensnark!
12:10:43 <Cryp71c> Muwahaha! I've found 4 of them :P
12:10:54 <Madtrixr> Yeah, looks like the deepest I've gotten is Lair:3
12:10:58 <Cryp71c> Madtrixr, don't worry, a month? after I found my first rune, I won :)
12:11:10 <Cryp71c> Just keep playing, learning, and asking eith for advice
12:11:10 <Cryp71c> lol
12:11:21 <Cryp71c> You can bug me as well (but not here, ##Crawl)
12:12:00 <Madtrixr> I don't usually bug eith for advice, I usually end up with Zicher, as part of Team SpVM.
12:12:18 <Cryp71c> dpeg, on an alternative note, if we implement talons, stinger, and tail as possible DS mutations, they need to be changed to a level system, right now all three are "you have em, or you don't"
12:12:43 <Cryp71c> yeah, eith has proven knowledgable regarding my stealthy / fighty playstyle
12:13:41 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev
12:14:22 <greensnark> !tell dpeg Heizölrückstoßabdämpfung
12:14:22 <Henzell> greensnark: OK, I'll let dpeg know.
12:14:30 <Cryp71c> greensnark, lol what is that?
12:14:37 -!- greensnark is now known as cowcowsnark
12:14:56 -!- cowcowsnark is now known as greensnark
12:15:09 <greensnark> Cryp71c: dpeg's favourite word
12:15:11 <Madtrixr> My irc client apparently doesn't support umlauts.
12:15:17 <greensnark> I'm just testing the encoding fix to Henzell
12:15:21 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev
12:15:23 <Cryp71c> greensnark, ah, nice.
12:18:31 <greensnark> Apparently the only problem was locale being set to something weird
12:19:38 <Madtrixr> Question that I may already know the answer to, but I'm just checking: Do the CAO and the CDO ghosts cross over?
12:19:44 <greensnark> No
12:20:44 <Madtrixr> Okay.
12:21:14 <Madtrixr> So, if I want a kill to my name, I got to beef up in CAO, then starve to death on an early level to ambush someone.
12:21:41 <greensnark> If you want to be killed IRL that is
12:21:46 <Madtrixr> lol
12:22:00 <Madtrixr> I guess that's true.
12:25:36 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev
12:27:09 -!- kilobyte has quit [Quit: Sanity is for the weak]
12:27:54 <Textmode> whats the trick to using the makefile for crosscompilation?
12:28:01 <nrook> Madtrixr: if you want a kill t oyour name, just start playing DrFEs
12:28:20 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:28:37 * greensnark slaps nrook with a trout.
12:28:48 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev
12:28:56 <Madtrixr> lol
12:29:25 * Madtrixr takes a note
12:30:05 <greensnark> CeFE ghosts have the advantage of being faster than the average player
12:30:27 <greensnark> Admittedly DrFE ghosts of decent level have that lovable draining breath that makes parties go
12:31:47 <greensnark> But it's not just about raw threat potential
12:31:51 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Client Quit]
12:31:52 <greensnark> It's about player perception
12:32:06 <greensnark> If I see a xxFE ghost, I don't wait and fight
12:32:20 <greensnark> So I'm far more likely to splat to a DEFi or similar :P
12:32:52 <syllogism> DrTh
12:33:25 <doy> well, on the other hand
12:33:32 <doy> !tv dpeg killer=~doy
12:33:35 <Henzell> 1. dpeg, XL12 SpVM, T:25156 requested for FooTV.
12:33:37 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev
12:34:27 <Textmode> so...I want to run "make CROSSHOST=mipsel-linux"?
12:34:44 <Cryp71c> Muwahaha, my scale additions are coming along nicely.
12:34:48 <Cryp71c> DS will be MINE!
12:34:51 <Cryp71c> (notrly)
12:34:52 <greensnark> !tv dpeg killer=~doy
12:34:53 <Henzell> 1. dpeg, XL12 SpVM, T:25156 requested for FooTV.
12:35:42 <greensnark> doy: Nice ghost :P
12:35:45 <doy> (:
12:38:08 <doy> !lg dpeg killer=~doy x=game_id
12:38:35 <Cryp71c> ..uh oh? Henzell crash inc?
12:38:39 <Cryp71c> or just a big query..
12:38:44 <Henzell> Unknown selector game_id in game_id
12:38:55 <doy> !lg dpeg killer=~doy x=enddate
12:39:03 <Henzell> Unknown selector enddate in enddate
12:39:06 <Cryp71c> lol
12:39:06 <doy> !lg dpeg killer=~doy x=end
12:39:06 <Henzell> 1. [end=2007-03-24] dpeg the Conjurer (L12 SpVM), worshipper of Sif Muna, blasted by doy's ghost (bolt of fire) on Lair:4 on 2007-03-24, with 18461 points after 25156 turns and 2:22:58.
12:39:31 <doy> !lg place=lair:4 end<=20070324
12:39:31 <Henzell> No games for doy (place=lair:4 end<=20070324).
12:39:32 <Madtrixr> !wtf DrTh
12:39:32 <Henzell> Red Draconian Thief
12:39:44 <jarpiain> !lg doy place=Lair end<=20070324
12:39:45 <Henzell> 3. doy the Destroyer (L13 DEFE), worshipper of Sif Muna, blasted by a firedrake (blast of fiery breath) on Lair:6 on 2007-03-22, with 34417 points after 29604 turns and 4:52:25.
12:39:57 <syllogism> !lg * ckiller=player ghost xl>20 s=killer
12:39:58 <Henzell> 23 games for * (ckiller=player ghost xl>20): 2x zenzei's ghost, 2x 78291's ghost, 2x maniac's ghost, 1x jericho89's ghost, 1x pointless' ghost, 1x SilVaris' ghost, 1x DiamondRob's ghost, 1x randart's ghost, 1x Ping's ghost, 1x chilliwack's ghost, 1x ihlosi's ghost, 1x ZaurenTour's ghost, 1x ruthinator's ghost, 1x Jovan's ghost, 1x doomgaze's ghost, 1x ekaterin's ghost, 1x stabworth's ghost, 1x by'...
12:40:10 <greensnark> !lg doy place=Lair end<=20070324 x=v
12:40:11 <Henzell> 3. [v=0.1.7] doy the Destroyer (L13 DEFE), worshipper of Sif Muna, blasted by a firedrake (blast of fiery breath) on Lair:6 on 2007-03-22, with 34417 points after 29604 turns and 4:52:25.
12:40:25 <doy> !lg place=Lair end<=20070324 s=place
12:40:25 <Henzell> 3 games for doy (place=Lair end<=20070324): 1x Lair:1, 1x Lair:7, 1x Lair:6
12:40:33 <doy> huh
12:40:34 <greensnark> I think 0.2 was where ghosts were forced to stay in the same depth in branches
12:40:38 <doy> ah
12:40:43 <kilobyte> !tell greensnark 𐌁𐌄𐌳𐌱𐌘𐌕 𐎁𐎅𐎌𐎴𐏈   𝕄 𝕖 𝕠 𝕨
12:40:43 <Henzell> kilobyte: OK, I'll let greensnark know.
12:40:44 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:40:56 <greensnark> !messages
12:40:57 <Henzell> (1/1) kilobyte said (13s ago): ?????? ?????   ? ? ? ?
12:40:59 <greensnark> :P
12:41:05 <syllogism> my thought exactly :P
12:41:07 <syllogism> s
12:41:10 <kilobyte> hah, broken
12:41:38 -!- Eronarn has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:41:42 <greensnark> I couldn't convince BasicBot to do utf-8
12:41:46 <greensnark> I should look at it again sometime
12:41:52 <greensnark> I think it uses 8859-1
12:42:15 <kilobyte> and what about just passing codes >127 as-is?
12:42:31 <Textmode> surely making it 8-bit clean would do the trick?
12:42:45 <Textmode> seems to work for Juiz...
12:43:19 <greensnark> !tell greensnark ウェブ全体から検索
12:43:19 <Henzell> greensnark: OK, I'll let greensnark know.
12:43:23 <greensnark> !messages
12:43:23 <Henzell> (1/1) greensnark said (4s ago): ?????????
12:43:25 <greensnark> Hehe
12:44:05 <greensnark> Was there a reason to disallow !tell on PM
12:44:08 <kilobyte> actually, we could use actual letters of the Runic alphabet to depict, you know, runes
12:44:11 <greensnark> I can't recall
12:44:24 <greensnark> kilobyte: Most players have dud Unicode fonts :/
12:44:36 <kilobyte> yeah, I know :p
12:44:59 <kilobyte> and some popular clients like PuTTY are limited to 16-bit subset of Unicode
12:44:59 <bhaak> more incentive for them to get decent fonts :)
12:45:17 <bhaak> what? O_o
12:47:14 <Textmode> individual fonts only ever seem to have subsets of characters in them, I've installed pretty much every font I could find in the repos to fill the holes...still holes left...
12:56:35 <Cryp71c> sorear, there by chance?
12:57:11 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:57:56 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev
12:57:57 <greensnark> !tell greensnark ウェブ全体から検索
12:58:00 <Henzell> greensnark: OK, I'll let greensnark know.
12:58:02 <greensnark> !messages
12:58:02 <Henzell> (1/1) greensnark said (4s ago): ウェブ全体から検索
12:58:05 <greensnark> Bleh
12:58:44 <greensnark> Oh, tell.pl isn't setting STDOUT right
12:58:50 <greensnark> Naughty
12:59:06 <greensnark> What was the magic flag, -COA?
12:59:12 <Cryp71c> !tell dpeg ran across code that indicates that Yellow scales (presently) provide acid resistance, at level 3, it gives as much resistance as if you had rCorr
12:59:12 <Henzell> Cryp71c: OK, I'll let dpeg know.
12:59:28 <greensnark> Let me just binmode it
13:00:05 <doy> binmode(':utf8') probably
13:00:22 <greensnark> !tell greensnark ウェブ全体から検索
13:00:22 <Henzell> greensnark: OK, I'll let greensnark know.
13:00:24 <greensnark> !messages
13:00:24 <Henzell> (1/1) greensnark said (2s ago): ウェブ全体から検索
13:00:28 <greensnark> What :P
13:01:00 <greensnark> Ok, I shall enable !tell on PM
13:01:08 <greensnark> Why did we disallow !tell on PM anyway
13:01:21 <greensnark> Were there problems with naughty !tell users?
13:03:59 <Textmode> <Textmode> so...I want to run "make CROSSHOST=mipsel-linux"?
13:04:32 -!- ortoslon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:04:51 <kilobyte> Textmode: if your compiler is mipsel-linux-gcc, yeah
13:04:51 <greensnark> Textmode: doy and Napkin do cross-compiles often :)
13:05:20 <greensnark> Textmode: What device is this? Some kind of router? :P
13:05:31 <Textmode> dingoo
13:05:39 <doy> i type 'update-mingw-0.6-tiles.sh'
13:05:48 <doy> i don't know that that's considered "doing cross-compiles"
13:05:49 <doy> (:
13:05:59 <greensnark> Dingoo? Doesn't that have tiny RAM? :P
13:06:17 <doy> it does
13:06:20 <Textmode> yes, 32mb. but one step at a time :P
13:06:28 <greensnark> I suppose you could run Crawl in it if you threw out the stash tracker and deleted all the .des files :P
13:07:14 <Textmode> "make: util/gcc-gte.pl: command not found" :/
13:07:15 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:07:33 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev
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13:13:27 <ais523> kilobyte: your message to greensnark triggered a known bug in dbus and crashed my IRC client
13:14:02 <greensnark> :P
13:14:07 <greensnark> kilobyte: Nice work <3
13:14:39 <ais523> at least it meant I got to submit another backtrace to help them out
13:15:18 <doy> why is your irc client using dbus
13:15:30 <ais523> doy: I'm not entirely sure
13:15:38 <ais523> my guess is overengineering
13:16:02 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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13:16:47 <Textmode> <Textmode> "make: util/gcc-gte.pl: command not found" :/
13:19:16 <greensnark> Textmode: Do you have util/gcc-gte.pl and is it executable?
13:19:16 <Henzell> greensnark: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
13:19:39 -!- ais523 has left ##crawl-dev
13:19:49 <greensnark> It wasn't that message :P
13:19:52 <doy> haha
13:20:11 * Twinge snerks
13:20:40 <Textmode> greensnark: no, apprently the only thing in utils is "FAQ2html.pl"
13:21:14 <Textmode> that doesn't seem right...
13:21:48 <doy> Textmode: you have a broken checkout then
13:22:21 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev
13:22:21 <Textmode> how do I fix it?
13:22:35 <Textmode> ais523: just intime to see the message! :D
13:22:43 <ais523> haha
13:22:57 <doy> Textmode: git checkout util
13:23:03 <Textmode> whats the bug in dbus, anyway?
13:24:52 -!- felirx has joined ##crawl-dev
13:25:48 <kilobyte> ais523: so to crash it, one has simply to write some runes?  And they say magic doesn't work...
13:25:55 -!- greensnark is now known as foosnark
13:26:10 -!- foosnark is now known as greensnark
13:26:14 <ais523> Textmode: basically, if you send it a certain sort of malformed UTF-8, it arbitrarily closes the socket
13:26:22 <Textmode> :/
13:26:26 <Textmode> kilobyte: :D
13:26:42 <ais523> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=219985
13:26:44 <greensnark> Those must be the legendary Explosive RUnes
13:26:44 <Henzell> greensnark: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
13:27:36 <Textmode> doy: and how do I fix the entire bleeping checkout?
13:28:03 <kilobyte> it wasn't malformed, these were correct Unicode plane 1 characters (with codes above U+FFFF, some programs can't handle those)
13:28:18 <kilobyte> Textmode: git reset --hard
13:28:38 <ais523> kilobyte: there are two bugs involved; it somehow gets mangled into malformed characters by libkio
13:32:18 <doy> it turns out that D-Bus
13:32:18 <doy> currently doesn't allow a range of Utf-8 characters that are reserved by the
13:32:18 <doy> Unicode specification and not permitted for interchange. This range is U+FDD0
13:32:21 <doy> through U+FDEF
13:33:24 <Textmode> still though, it should handle it a tad more gracefully :P
13:33:47 <ais523> yep
13:34:09 <ais523> the bug report mentions there are about 4 different places, in 4 different programs/libraries, it could be fixed, but it's buggy in all of them
13:34:28 <dpeg> back
13:34:28 <Henzell> dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
13:35:32 <Napkin> Good job on the post, doy :))
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13:39:30 <Cryp71c> back here too
13:39:45 <dpeg> Cryp71c: technically, one or two levels could be mute (nothing happens).
13:40:09 <Cryp71c> dpeg, no, that wasn't a proposal, that's how its working..right now. in the .6 line
13:40:22 <Cryp71c> But yeah, that could be another 'Colorless' possibility.
13:40:25 <Cryp71c> In the new DS revisions.
13:41:04 <Cryp71c> dpeg, I was only mentioning it because its not documented anywhere, its not in the tooltip of the mutation, but the code which provides the resistance is there nonetheless.
13:44:02 <dpeg> Cryp71c: I guess if you're starting to code, we should take it to email. Please include sorear!
13:44:43 -!- SiberVsConiousne is now known as Siber
13:45:14 <Cryp71c> dpeg, CRD?
13:46:32 <due> hm
13:52:31 <dpeg> Cryp71c: no, private mails
13:52:42 <dpeg> due: yes?
13:53:17 <Cryp71c> dpeg, where can I snag email addresses for you and Sorear?
13:54:19 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:54:31 <dpeg> Cryp71c: seen?
13:54:38 <Cryp71c> dpeg, yep, got them. thanks.
13:54:39 <dpeg> Who killed the Henzells?
13:54:44 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev
13:54:51 <due> The Henzell will return.
13:55:09 <Cryp71c> dpeg, She keeps leaving and coming back, greensnark is working on encoding so !tells with unicode chars are presented properly.
13:55:19 <Cryp71c> or at least, it appeared as if greensnark was the one doing it.
13:55:30 <greensnark> I shot the Henzell, but I did not shoot the Gretell
13:58:55 <Cryp71c> ah, that's interesting, rElec and rP can be multi-equipped and still be useful.
13:59:35 <Cryp71c> ohwait, no they can't.
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14:01:01 <kilobyte> "she"?  Wasn't Hänsel the guy, and Gretel the girl?
14:01:07 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
14:01:10 <kilobyte> and Linley Henzell is definitely male too :p
14:03:17 <bhaak> with boths, it's like with dwarfs, hard to find the gender differences
14:03:24 <bhaak> *bots
14:04:03 <dpeg> kilobyte: but yes
14:04:19 <elly> it's also difficult with humans sometimes, bhaak :P
14:05:05 <bhaak> elly: I didn't want to start the jokes on germans :)
14:05:19 <elly> that wasn't about germans :P
14:05:20 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:05:36 <Madtrixr> lol
14:05:40 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev
14:06:05 <greensnark> Victory is mine
14:06:20 <greensnark> !tell dpeg 多言語対応サーチエンジンの日
14:06:20 <Henzell> greensnark: OK, I'll let dpeg know.
14:06:32 <greensnark> !tell dpeg Heizölrückstoßabdämpfung
14:06:32 <Henzell> greensnark: OK, I'll let dpeg know.
14:06:46 <elly> '!tell dpeg BOXES'
14:06:46 <greensnark> !tell greensnark 多言語対応サーチエンジンの日
14:06:46 <Henzell> greensnark: OK, I'll let greensnark know.
14:06:49 <greensnark> !messages
14:06:49 <Henzell> (1/2) greensnark said (41m 3s ago): ????????
14:06:52 <greensnark> WTF :P
14:06:58 <greensnark> Apparently I spoke too soon :P
14:06:58 <elly> henzell ate them!
14:07:03 <greensnark> !messages
14:07:04 <Henzell> (1/1) greensnark said (18s ago): 多言語対応サーチエンジンの日
14:07:05 <elly> I bet it's not doing 'use utf8'
14:07:07 <greensnark> Oh, that was the old one :P
14:07:10 <elly> oh!
14:07:10 <syllogism> :P
14:07:13 <elly> yeah, thus 41m ago
14:07:33 <greensnark> So using charset => 'utf-8' with BasicBot is a baaad idea
14:07:33 <Henzell> greensnark: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
14:07:38 <greensnark> Although I don't know why it's a bad idea
14:08:00 <greensnark> Not specifying a charset option fixed the mayhem
14:08:01 <kilobyte> greensnark: in PM to not crash ais523
14:08:10 -!- ais523 has left ##crawl-dev
14:08:14 <greensnark> Hehe
14:08:16 <greensnark> !messages
14:08:16 <Henzell> (1/1) kilobyte said (56s ago): 𐌁𐌄𐌳𐌱𐌘𐌕 𐎁𐎅𐎌𐎴𐏈   𝕄 𝕖 𝕠 𝕨
14:08:42 <elly> AdvancedBot! :D
14:08:57 <elly> ais523's client crashes on unicode? oO
14:09:14 <doy> it crashes on invalid unicode
14:09:15 <kilobyte> yay, now raise hand whoever could read that (not knowing runes or cuneiform not withstanding)
14:09:18 <doy> for some value of "invalid"
14:09:25 <elly> interesting
14:09:26 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev
14:09:38 <elly> that was a set of "this font doesn't have that" boxes for me, kilobyte
14:10:09 <bhaak> kilobyte: i don't know what's so hard about reading some question marks  ;-)
14:10:33 <kilobyte> well, it's not like the Runic alphabet is in such a wide use today for most fonts to carry the glyphs...
14:11:41 <ais523> "Analogously, my own best ideas, far surpassing anything in my ‘serious’ papers, are contained in my annual April Fool’s jokes, sent to my E-correspondents and posted on my website. This way I can express my ‘off the wall’ ideas without being considered a crackpot."
14:11:52 <ais523> err, sorry, wrong channel
14:12:04 <Madtrixr> ...
14:12:21 <ais523> I haven't done /that/ in a while...
14:12:33 <Cryp71c> meh, was about time I spose.
14:12:57 <due> I just got a bunch of \u values.
14:14:55 <greensnark> due: You're up?!
14:15:08 <greensnark> Isn't it 4 am or such or are you traveling
14:16:38 <elly> it is 1500 on the east coast :P
14:16:53 <greensnark> I thought due is in Australia :P
14:16:55 <dpeg> I guess we've covered the globe pretty well right now.
14:16:55 <Henzell> dpeg: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them.
14:17:12 <dpeg> All hail the Heizölrückstoßabdämpfung!
14:17:18 <dpeg> !messages
14:17:18 <Henzell> (1/4) greensnark said (2h 2m 56s ago): Heiz�lr�cksto�abd�mpfung
14:17:20 <dpeg> !messages
14:17:20 <Henzell> (1/3) Cryp71c said (1h 18m 8s ago): ran across code that indicates that Yellow scales (presently) provide acid resistance, at level 3, it gives as much resistance as if you had rCorr
14:17:38 <dpeg> Cryp71c: yes, yellow without any effect made me wonder :)
14:17:39 <dpeg> !messages
14:17:39 <Henzell> (1/2) greensnark said (11m 19s ago): 多言語対応サーチエンジンの日
14:17:41 <dpeg> !messages
14:17:42 <Henzell> (1/1) greensnark said (11m 10s ago): Heizölrückstoßabdämpfung
14:18:06 <dpeg> greensnark: I hope the Japanese thing is just a translation of Heizölrückstoßabdämpfung?
14:18:16 <greensnark> dpeg: I'm not that good at Japanese :P
14:18:50 <Cryp71c> dpeg, in the new AC revisions, +3 +6 +9 is "Iridescent" and "Yellow" is one of the possibilities from "Colorless"
14:18:51 <Madtrixr> Alright, I'll bite, what is that word that Greensnark likes so much? I can't even read it...
14:19:15 <greensnark> Madtrixr: You mean the Japanese or the German word?
14:19:30 <dpeg> Cryp71c: yes, already saw it, that's good!
14:19:33 <Madtrixr> German.
14:19:35 <doy> that looks like a lot more than one japanese word
14:20:22 <dpeg> Madtrixr: it has a lots of unlauts! <3 And an ß <4 <5
14:20:29 <greensnark> The Japanese is just copy-pasted from google.co.jp
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14:22:48 <dpeg> Hi by!
14:22:54 <by> hello
14:23:14 <dpeg> !seen sorear
14:23:14 <Henzell> I last saw sorear at Tue Mar  9 09:55:14 2010 UTC (10h 28m ago) saying blade hands damage is so much higher than other forms as to make the slight healing irrelevant on ##crawl.
14:25:11 <dpeg> Cryp71c: okay if I reply with a list of mutations to your mail?
14:26:21 -!- karmatic has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
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14:27:35 <Cryp71c> dpeg, absolutely, feel free to send whatever to me (except viagra ads :P) I'm on crd, its not like I don't want crawl spam
14:29:04 <dpeg> Cryp71c: I would never send Viagra mails.
14:29:12 <dpeg> But did you know that I have this uncle in Nigeria, who passed away last year? I need to get his 1,000,000US$ out of that country as soon as possible. Do you want to help? You would get 25% of it.
14:31:08 <bhaak> if you sent me a ticket, I'll go
14:31:49 <dpeg> bhaak: the bank is not Credit Suisse :)
14:31:57 <greensnark> Cryp71c: Did you know that enchanted rods recharge really fast? Would you like some reading material elaborating on this?
14:32:07 <bhaak> dpeg: that's fine, I don't have an account with them :-)
14:32:30 <Cryp71c> greensnark, yes I'm aware.... ?
14:32:33 <greensnark> bhaak's German, why would he use Credit Suisse
14:32:35 <Cryp71c> someone was in here earlier regarding it.
14:32:41 <dpeg> greensnark: I would like some enchanting material exemplifying this.
14:32:56 <greensnark> Cryp71c: Nevermind :P
14:33:01 <dpeg> There is a very simple test about that.
14:33:14 <dpeg> bhaak, please say and write "Straße".
14:34:57 <Cryp71c> greensnark, lol, I guess I'm missing your point
14:35:17 <greensnark> Cryp71c: You did express an interest in viagra ads :P
14:35:20 <bhaak> Straße
14:35:27 <dpeg> Hey! The Swiss have sold their ß on the altar of globalism, many years ago.
14:37:15 <dpeg> bhaak: stimmt doch, oder?
14:38:23 <bhaak> dpeg: more on the altar of multilinguism and modern technology. There was no space for it and those strange french letters on those new-fangled typewriters in the 1910s and 1920s
14:38:45 <dpeg> bhaak: you also got rid of codille etc?
14:38:57 <Cryp71c> greensnark, lol, gotcha :P
14:39:16 <Cryp71c> thought you were talking about enchanted rods as in what was discussed earlier :P
14:39:30 <dpeg> Cryp71c: greensnark just love to talk about enchanted rods.
14:39:35 <kilobyte> heck, in the first few decades after Gutenberg, the English dropped þ just because it wasn't present on German-imported fonts
14:39:45 <dpeg> wow, interesting
14:39:55 <dpeg> Those funny Englishmen :)
14:40:54 <dpeg> There have been attempt a decade or two ago in Germany to get rid of capitalising nouns (German is the last European language to do that), umlauts and the ß. One reason was that it's awkward to use umlauts on keyboards and software and we should go with the time.
14:41:11 <dpeg> It didn't happen, thank god, but I would have defended the ß until the bitter end.
14:41:46 <bhaak> there is just no convienent place for the esszett on here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_Swiss.svg (and you don't need it anyways ;-)
14:42:29 <dpeg> bhaak: Don't know about you, but I find Swiß much more sexy than Swiss :)
14:43:02 <dpeg> also, AltGr-s would be a natural candidate.
14:45:31 <bhaak> I have the umlauts on meta-a|o|u|s. That's one good use for the windows key :)
14:45:55 <kilobyte> or use that useless Menu key.  If you set that as Compose, you get ß as Compose-s-s in all keymaps no matter what your language is.
14:45:56 <Madtrixr> Ah...I know about the esszett.
14:45:58 <bhaak> dpeg: you know there was no AltGr-key before computers ;-)
14:46:14 <Madtrixr> it looks like a weird b to a lot of people.
14:46:19 <kilobyte> (not that I ever need to type it, being a Polack and all that...)
14:47:08 <dpeg> Madtrixr: it originated as a combination of two s letters from the older German letter system (Fraktur).
14:47:53 <dpeg> The proliferation of useless keys is a sad fact of modern times. I recall the days when a space bar was a bar, now it's sometimes just a keylet.
14:49:53 <kilobyte> my keyboard has a gaping hole where Power/Sleep/Wake Up keys used to be.  Duct tape seems to fall off, and those keys were too easy to accidentally press if you booted to Windows (which can't remap them), and turning the machine off is not a nice thing.
14:51:31 <dpeg> I distinctly recall having written long mails about scales mutations to c-r-d. Only now I cannot find them :/
14:52:38 <Cryp71c> :(
14:52:41 <Cryp71c> that makes me sad
14:53:59 <dpeg> Cryp71c: it was just a list of current scales mutations, with a proposal of how to shrink that.
14:54:13 <dpeg> Nothing that can be redone... but it must be somewhere.
14:56:07 <Cryp71c> dpeg, so did you intend to combine the list I've assembled with part of the scales that already exist?
14:56:34 <dpeg> found it!
14:56:40 <dpeg> Cryp71c: just a moment
15:00:26 -!- timecircuits has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
15:00:35 <Cryp71c> take your time.
15:01:02 -!- timecircuits has joined ##crawl-dev
15:04:27 -!- syllogism has quit []
15:07:50 <Cryp71c> dpeg, how far would I need to get these scale changes before they're commit-able? All the way complete?
15:10:13 <dpeg> Cryp71c: wait a moment
15:10:16 <doy> Cryp71c: talk to sorear
15:11:28 <Cryp71c> doy, sorear is away, or at least has been most of today
15:11:48 <doy> Cryp71c: patience is good!
15:11:49 <doy> (:
15:12:01 <doy> there's no particular rush for this stuff
15:12:13 <doy> and better to do it right, and with a minimum of wasted effort
15:12:17 <Cryp71c> doy, I know, which is why I'm bugging dpeg instead of !tell 'ing sorear 8 times
15:12:23 <Cryp71c> ;)
15:14:58 <greensnark> Okay, ^X already does the right thing
15:15:31 <greensnark> It reports items in a stack using the stash tracker, not by peeking at the actual items on the grid
15:16:23 <greensnark> So all we need to do is decide whether 'x' should be more forthcoming if the stash-tracker knows whats in a stack
15:18:00 <dpeg> Cryp71c: back
15:18:10 <doy> greensnark: eh, i think the current behavior is fine
15:18:17 <greensnark> Yeah, likewise
15:18:21 <ais523> greensnark: hmm, I've been testing that right now
15:18:25 <dpeg> greensnark: is there a bug or not?
15:18:28 <ais523> I've been killing monsters and immediately control-Xing
15:18:34 <greensnark> dpeg: No bug
15:18:39 <greensnark> ais523: And?
15:18:43 <ais523> and sometimes it reports an item in the deathdrop; presumably, that's an item I saw the monster wield
15:18:51 <ais523> also, it reports monster corpses
15:18:52 <greensnark> It'll report the top item
15:18:59 <ais523> ah, I see what's happened here
15:19:00 <greensnark> Or any item if you've stepped on the heap
15:19:06 <doy> greensnark: sometimes it doesn't report the top item, for some reason
15:19:17 <doy> but i can't get it to report any items below the top item
15:19:22 <doy> unless i step on the pile
15:19:28 <ais523> not sure how to confirm this, but: it seems that if you kill a monster, it drops an item, and another monster moves onto that square in the same turn, the item's added to stash tracker
15:19:36 <greensnark> doy: That sounds like a bug
15:19:49 <greensnark> Next time that happens, should file it :)
15:19:53 <greensnark> Unless you can see it now?
15:19:54 <dpeg> I don't mind Ctrl-X or x or Ctrl-F telling about items the player saw (a monster's weapon, for example). I just don't want to inform the player about unseen items.
15:20:24 <greensnark> ais523: another monster stepping on the square doesn't hide the top item on the square
15:20:50 <ais523> ah, ok
15:20:54 <ais523> that's what mislead my bug report
15:21:04 <ais523> because there's no sign it's actually there, unless you think of farlooking the square
15:21:09 <ais523> because there's no item glyph on the map
15:21:38 <doy> heh, trying to wizmode-give a scroll to a monster, if the monster doesn't want that scroll, leads to unlinked temporary item spam
15:22:08 <dpeg> Cryp71c: does my mail make sense?
15:22:55 <greensnark> doy: Sounds Mantisworthy :)
15:23:03 <doy> i really should be working d:
15:23:27 <greensnark> So we all say :)
15:23:37 <greensnark> Although happily I'm done with work for today
15:23:46 <greensnark> But I have this lovely set of 1080p BBC earth videos
15:23:51 <greensnark> With narration by David Attenborough
15:24:02 * greensnark goes off to watch.
15:25:52 <Cryp71c> dpeg, yep, makes sense. I Like the B option, keeps draconian scales draconian, DS scales DS, and creates random scales for random mutation-sources.
15:27:55 <dpeg> Cryp71c: and your question was whether the scales patch has to be one large block or many chunks?
15:31:46 <Cryp71c> dpeg, well, if we go with b) then we'll remove all the pre-existing scales, add in the new DS scales, and implement the "subpar random scale generation", do we have to wait for all of that to be completed before its committed together, or would I be able to have my patch (which would cover the first 2 points) committed whenever they're finished and approved?
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15:33:52 <dpeg> Cryp71c: I think it can go in piece by piece.
15:34:44 <Madtrixr> Wow, Green just totally buggered off.
15:37:59 <Cryp71c> dpeg, well, hopefully we go with b :P in my local copy I went ahead and stripped out all the old mutations, and I've already implemented all the new scales except the colorless ones.
15:39:24 <dpeg> cool
15:39:47 <dpeg> Cryp71c: a) and b) are not meant to be complementary :)
15:41:05 <Cryp71c> dpeg, ah, yeah...I guess I read a) and then b and defaulted to them being distinct proposals :P
15:41:36 <dpeg> not meant like that, sorry for confusion
15:44:49 <Textmode> hmm...no "make package"?
15:46:13 <Ashenzari> Some text issues (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1038) by Cab
15:50:32 <Cryp71c> dpeg, for Thin Skele, which provides stealth, how should I display that in the A screen? should it say +15 stealth? or wha?
15:50:39 <Cryp71c> (since we don't normallly use numbers0
15:50:40 <Cryp71c> )
15:52:06 <dpeg> "somewhat more stealthy", "more stealthy", "a lot more stealthy"?
15:53:01 <Cryp71c> (+1 Dex, -1 Str, Somewhat more stealthy) etc. etc.
15:53:10 <dpeg> yes
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16:21:22 <Ashenzari> Worthless, shiny silver coins (Item suggestion) (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1039) by noxn
16:22:13 <Cryp71c> dpeg, its too wide for a normal-format screen, I get runoff :(
16:23:12 <MarvinPA> you could use Stlth+ or whatever it is that randart inscriptions do?
16:23:52 <Cryp71c> MarvinPA, yeah, but IDK how much Stlth+ implies.
16:24:10 <MarvinPA> ah yeah, no idea
16:25:11 <dpeg> Cryp71c: don't worry too much
16:25:34 <dpeg> just print "more stealth"
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16:31:11 <Cryp71c> MarvinPA, yeah it looksl ike Stealth can range between 10 and 80
16:31:27 <MarvinPA> stealth from randarts?
16:33:11 <Cryp71c> MarvinPA, yes
16:33:21 <Cryp71c> and if it has Stealth+ it could be between 20 and 80
16:33:27 <Cryp71c> Stealth is 10-20
16:33:39 <MarvinPA> ahh
16:33:55 <TGW> 10-20 is like nothing :|
16:34:53 <Cryp71c> yeah
16:35:01 <Cryp71c> Stealth, Stealth+ and Stealth++ look better than "More Stealth" :(
16:41:27 <dpeg> Cryp71c: then do it
16:41:44 <dpeg> I find that the A screen shouldn't have cryptic symbols, but hey :)
16:41:49 <greensnark> Mrrowl
16:41:55 <greensnark> The "Fresh Water" episode <3
16:41:59 <dpeg> greensnark: movie break?
16:42:41 <greensnark> BBC Planet Earth series :)
16:42:45 <greensnark> It
16:42:51 <greensnark> It's pretty neat
16:43:42 <Cryp71c> dpeg, yeah I've already stuck it in, if people think its too cryptic, we'll swap it out.
16:45:55 <by> I have a cyan teleportation trap here...
16:46:31 <dpeg> by: 0.6?
16:46:42 <by> master; haven't checked 0.6
16:47:59 <greensnark> Maybe an item on the trap?
16:48:10 <by> shaft is cyan too
16:48:17 <greensnark> Someone changed the colours?
16:48:27 <dpeg> looks like a systematic error
16:48:53 <greensnark> !lg erisdiscordia
16:48:54 <Henzell> 646. erisdiscordia the Chopper (L7 DDFi), worshipper of Trog, blasted by Dowan (shard of ice) on D:6 on 2010-03-09, with 965 points after 5439 turns and 0:39:32.
16:48:59 <greensnark> due will rejoice
16:49:09 <dpeg> I hope Erik liked it :)
16:49:43 <greensnark> D&D are awesome :)
16:49:52 <greensnark> It helps that I have a perfect record against them, of course
16:50:11 <dpeg> I am in contact with the Keith, the man behind 100 Rogues. He's a composer, perhaps we can get music for Crawl <3
16:50:24 <dpeg> Donald and Daisy Duck?
16:50:52 <greensnark> We have Daisy Duck in Crawl?
16:50:56 <dpeg> D&D :)
16:51:16 <greensnark> Dowan & Duvessa, the touchingly close elf twins :P
16:51:23 <dpeg> !tell due !lg erisdiscordia
16:51:23 <Henzell> dpeg: OK, I'll let due know.
16:51:26 <greensnark> Who really ought to get out more and meet new people
16:51:49 <dpeg> They got out pretty far for deep elves :)
16:51:56 <dpeg> D:6!
16:52:05 <greensnark> D:6 is deep :P
16:52:13 <Cryp71c> dpeg, is it just me, or should Sp not be allowed to worship Chei?
16:52:22 <dpeg> Cryp71c: just you
16:52:26 <Cryp71c> lol
16:52:38 <dpeg> Cryp71c: we thought about it, and it's okay to let Sp in.
16:52:45 <dpeg> They're handicapped anyway.
16:52:53 <Madtrixr> dpeg: do it, RL's are mostly better with music.
16:52:54 <greensnark> Cryp71c: Speciesist!
16:52:57 <dpeg> But we also allow DEBe.
16:53:08 <dpeg> Madtrixr: I want randomly generated music :)
16:53:15 <greensnark> DEBe is a good combo
16:53:17 <Madtrixr> Even better
16:53:31 <greensnark> xxBe is a good combo
16:53:39 <dpeg> MuBe :)
16:53:44 <greensnark> BiA :P
16:53:49 <dpeg> yes
16:53:51 <greensnark> You do have to survive a bit though :P
16:53:58 <dpeg> also, burning books never gets ols
16:53:59 <dpeg> old
16:56:34 <dpeg> bye
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16:58:23 <Textmode> night all
16:58:25 <Cryp71c> Night.
16:58:35 <Cryp71c> greensnark, I feel Sp are too limited in equipment slots.
16:58:37 <greensnark> Gute Nacht
16:58:41 <Cryp71c> think I'm off base?
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16:59:02 <Cryp71c> no gloves, no boots, robes and skins only, caps and hats only
16:59:02 <kilobyte> let's give them baby slippers!
16:59:08 <greensnark> Cryp71c: Oh, no real idea on that, I'm not familiar with Che
16:59:19 <greensnark> I just took the opportunity to call someone speciesist
16:59:33 <kilobyte> if my cat race gets through, and you add tiny shoes, we'd have Puss in Boots :p
16:59:34 <Cryp71c> well, I was thinking with the upcoming changes to gloves vs gauntlets they'd be able to wield gloves, but not gaunts.
16:59:40 <Cryp71c> lol kilobyte
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17:00:14 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * r5d9cae2769c4 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files in 4 dirs): Use singular "tree" instead of "trees", some messages don't work well with plurals.
17:00:20 <greensnark> Was the cat race explicitly a domestic cat?
17:00:26 <greensnark> I thought of it more as RAWR, TIGER
17:00:28 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * r573b2d8979ba 10/crawl-ref/source/ (15 files): Make the enums for trees use singular form, just like all other features.
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17:04:22 <kilobyte> the proposed name is "Witch's Cat", as in, a familiar who was given sentience
17:04:46 <kilobyte> although Troggie cats will definitely go rawr :p
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17:26:00 <CIA-40> 03dolorous * r0751d5383172 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/features.txt: Fix apparent cut-and-paste error.
17:28:14 <TGW> it seems like non-weapons should attack at speed 10
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17:56:33 <due> !messages
17:56:33 <Henzell> (1/1) dpeg said (1h 5m 10s ago): !lg erisdiscordia
17:56:35 <due> hi Enne.
17:56:43 <due> !lg erisdiscordia
17:56:44 <Henzell> 646. erisdiscordia the Chopper (L7 DDFi), worshipper of Trog, blasted by Dowan (shard of ice) on D:6 on 2010-03-09, with 965 points after 5439 turns and 0:39:32.
17:56:45 <Enne> Heya, due.  :)
17:56:50 * due cracks up.
17:59:07 <Madtrixr> due: I don't get it.
17:59:57 <due> Dowan and Duvessa are my children.
18:00:18 <due> Erisdiscordia = Erik Piper, who, with greensnark, started Stone Soup.
18:00:39 <due> I'm not sure how long he hasn't been involved in development, but I just find it amusing that he's still playing and he dies to one of my uniques :)
18:02:38 <Madtrixr> lol
18:03:00 <Madtrixr> I see...so you made Dowan and Duvessa.
18:03:09 <Madtrixr> any other uniques?
18:03:29 * Enne snickers.
18:03:32 <elly> I wish I were a unique
18:03:41 <Madtrixr> Don't we all.
18:03:55 <elly> due! I should be a unique :D
18:04:08 <Madtrixr> :D
18:05:13 * Madtrixr wants to be a unique too, but has not been around long enough.
18:05:19 <elly> I have ops!
18:05:35 <elly> that is a lot like having been around :P
18:06:15 <due> Madtrixr: Er... most of the new 0.6 uniques are by me.
18:06:32 <Madtrixr> Hmm...
18:06:47 <Siber> We have due to blame
18:06:49 <Madtrixr> well, I haven't kept up on Crawl dev, so...
18:06:56 <due> 8 in total!
18:07:11 * elly blames due.
18:07:18 <due> 8 of 14 new uniques.
18:07:21 * Madtrixr blames due
18:07:25 <due> I've also overhauled three or four.
18:07:58 <due> Menkaure, Dowan, Duvessa, Gastronok, Aizul, Pikel, Crazy Yiuf (well, not really, Adam's original idea) and Mara.
18:08:18 <due> Gastronok, Aizul and Pikel are from the collect uniques FR, too.
18:10:21 <MarvinPA> i think i have been killed by all of those
18:10:29 <MarvinPA> do i get a prize?
18:10:34 <elly> yes
18:11:57 <MarvinPA> aw, all except mara actually
18:12:07 <MarvinPA> and i already killed him this game :P
18:12:09 <elly> NO PRIZE
18:12:12 <MarvinPA> :(
18:12:34 <st_> !lg * ikiller=~mara
18:12:35 <Henzell> 10. clouded the Necromancer (L16 DGNe), blasted by clouded's illusion (nerve-wracking pain) (woven by Mara) on Vault:3 on 2010-03-09, with 127865 points after 45568 turns and 3:36:40.
18:12:56 <st_> I have at least 2 splats to all of them
18:15:59 <due> Mara's pretty buff and great flavour-wise.
18:16:48 <due> But not much of a killer, too many people run away.
18:29:51 <Napkin> Hmm... ctrl+f ".*" finds shafts, but not traps or stairs
18:32:58 <felirx> <3 crazy yuif and his random cloaks
18:38:16 <Madtrixr> <3 wand of enslavement against Yiuf.
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19:18:28 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * rc57a8331e543 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Don't haste, slow, paralyze or petrify unmoving plants.
19:18:30 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * r76e26689bafd 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-util.cc mon-util.h spl-mis.cc): Fix some inappropiate monster miscast messages -- usually used by chaos.
19:18:32 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * r4c4b9d7e8c39 10/crawl-ref/source/ (8 files): Fix misbehaviours and crashes caused by redefining monster glyphs.
19:21:26 <sorear> ok, does somebody have a spare volunteer-bat, I need to whack Cryp71c with it
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20:04:36 <karmatic> Sweet! Release Candidate! :)
20:05:33 <karmatic> Congrats on getting the RC out guys
20:07:47 <Madtrixr> I noticed that too. *clap* *clap*
20:13:55 <sorear> *clap*
20:14:40 <sorear> and I missed it... I need to finish that news consolidation system
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21:30:31 -!- due changed the topic of ##crawl-dev to: DCSS development channel! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Ashenzari source: http://github.com/doy/crawlbot
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