00:00:18 I'm inclined to agree; I've not heard a convincing argument for requiring every submitter create an account. A captcha should suffice. 00:00:20 Agree 00:00:38 And image/audio capcthas tend to assume that I'm rendering images inline or support javascript. 00:01:01 twb: We fundamentally object to fire and forget RFEs; time and again on sourceforge we had to drop things on the floor just because we couldn't contact the OP 00:01:23 when we moved to the new tracker, several of us lobbied for no anonymous posting (including me) 00:01:39 sorear: I wouldn't have a problem putting my email address into a field in the form 00:01:42 because we were just tired of "Closing, no response in 7 days" 00:01:56 I grant you that I could spoof it 00:02:48 Text changes color (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1011) by Donkeyhead 00:03:05 I'm suprised we're using image/audio CAPTCHAs 00:03:19 there's a *large* disability contingent in the Crawl community 00:03:21 sorear: it didn't have an audio alternative 00:03:32 oh 00:03:45 I thought you meant it didn't have a graphic alternative 00:04:15 Usually the audio alternative doesn't work for me anyway, because my tty-based browser doesn't implement js 00:04:36 you're on a real tty and can't view images ever? 00:05:10 sorear: no, I had to open a tty that my user could render images on, since within screen, I can't. 00:05:19 I'm on an fbcon. 00:05:45 I use a tty-based browser almost exclusively but I can do captchas via /etc/mailcap and zgv/imagemagick 00:05:49 But if I copy the catcha image's URL out of the browser and wget it, the captcha program usually claims I'm an evil robot 00:06:19 sorear: zgv won't work because I'm in screen, so tty(1) returns /dev/pts/N instead of /dev/tty1 00:06:54 sorear: I have to openvt, and I haven't bothered to write a mailcap to automagically do the right thing, because the only images I normally open are bloody captchas. 00:07:01 Sorry, I'm ranting. 00:08:10 yeah the fbcon/screen work environment can get a bit frustrating 00:08:14 been there, done that 00:08:42 There are literal \n's in the mantis password reset email 00:08:59 eventually switched to X with a custom window manager and xterms 00:10:46 though, I wanted to open more than captchas... also wikipedia LaTeX renderings and the occasional pdf 00:11:21 I just do "xinit /usr/bin/epdfview foo.pdf" 00:17:19 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:19:32 drama! 01:26:27 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 01:26:31 literal linefeed removed though, thank you, twb 01:26:37 good morning 01:26:59 Whee, progress 01:30:00 heh - that word coming from you, twb ;> 01:30:02 Moin by! 01:30:26 * twb looks around nervously. 01:30:33 Napkin: how do you know who I am? 01:31:22 I don't - I just read the exciting backlog ;) 01:31:49 * twb turns twb's tinfoil hat back down to "simmer" 01:32:49 -!- MarvinPA-2 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:33:38 twb = Trent W. Buck, no? 01:33:55 yes 01:34:00 I think he's in CREDITS 01:34:03 twb did some Debian packaging work for Crawl back in yonkers 01:34:04 he's been here before 01:34:10 yes 01:34:13 And has some NetHack activity as well iirc 01:34:39 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:34:48 Lies 01:34:55 nethack.el was too lame 01:35:45 I like the way there are ~3 people who maintain Crawl Debian packages 01:38:21 !tell enne commit ids like 0.7.0-a0-559 are particularly unhelpful, you really should include the commit hash, or else it's hard for people to tell which revision you're talking about 01:38:21 doy: OK, I'll let enne know. 01:38:50 I continue to roll my own Crawl debs 01:39:07 can we please get rid of the .0-a0-559 part, it has almost no information 01:39:26 and mostly serves to lull people into chopping off the hash 01:39:35 The .0-a0 is part of the tag, it should stay 01:39:45 But the 559 is useless 01:40:17 well, the 559 part is useful to tell "this commit happened after this other commit" 01:40:29 Yes, well, useless in isolation 01:40:33 but yeah, i don't know if that's worth the confusion it seems to cause 01:40:59 how about just using rfc-2822 date of last commit 01:41:01 doy: it depends if you know which branch and clone it came from. 01:41:08 instead of all this tagging and hashing mumbo jumbo 01:41:34 sorear: IOW, go back to the old RCS approach? ;-P 01:42:09 sorear: collisions! 01:42:31 doy: what are the chances two devs will commit two patches in the same second? 01:43:02 higher than the chance that two devs will commit two patches that have the same hash d: 01:43:13 doy: depends on the length of the hash 01:43:17 twb: is RCS the one that makes version numbers like 2.42.1.1.1.3.1.6? I never could get the hang of that 01:43:32 sorear: rcs is file-based, it just has increasing integers. 01:43:49 twb: well, i think 40 hex digits are pretty sufficient 01:43:54 sorear: CVS was original a bunch of wrapper scripts to distribute RCS across multiple checkouts 01:43:58 oh, I thought rcs had (file based) branches too 01:44:09 Maybe it does and nobody told me 01:44:21 bzr has those kind of retarded revnos 01:45:06 Also, if git ever fails because of hash collison, we get a SHA-1 collission point for free 01:45:14 Isn't there a cash prise or something for those 01:45:29 Darcs uses SHA-256 hashes, FTW! 01:45:56 (don't get us started on darcs) 01:46:03 :-) 01:59:42 !tell by can you let me know which jiyva commits are important for 0.6? i know there has been some stuff happening with the piety algorithm, but there's also been a bunch of code cleanup and such too, and not sure which parts are relevant 01:59:42 doy: OK, I'll let by know. 02:01:18 doy: I'm here :) 02:01:18 by: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 02:01:24 ah(: 02:02:04 I think they should probably go in, since jiyva piety was broken 02:02:16 N78291 is the Jiyva master, no? 02:02:21 it was just impossible to do without also doing some cleanup at the same time 02:02:36 alright, i'll look back over them in a bit 02:04:18 sorear: this is issue #656; it seemed everyone agreed that jiyva should be similar to nemelex, but nobodoy was willing to do it 02:05:34 doy: ee3283ba, fc393cbc, (f2019720), 92b8fb58 02:06:17 you might leave out f2019720 (split out mutation action to a function in a new godgift file), but it should be harmless 02:06:32 similar to namelex? howso?" 02:06:43 Textmode: piety gain rate 02:06:51 they're both sac gods that take anything 02:07:08 the way item stacks are handled was the more important part 02:07:30 yes, they're now handled properly, and piety-per-item can be changed safely 02:18:06 !lg * ikiller=antique lich 02:18:06 1. Chigusa the Destroyer (L17 DrWz), worshipper of Sif Muna, blasted by a dragon (blast of flame) (summoned by a Blue Death (summoned by an antique lich)) in WizLab on 2010-03-05, with 182915 points after 98995 turns and 18:35:55. 02:18:14 !tell due !lg * ikiller=antique lich 02:18:14 greensnark: OK, I'll let due know. 02:18:22 Whose wizlab is that? 02:21:49 "Torment never killed anybody!" :D <3 02:22:03 03due 07stone_soup-0.6 * rfea23c795164 10/crawl-ref/source/l_item.cc: Commit Darshan's fix to identified/type checks for dLua items. 02:22:05 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r41c534d0579c 10/crawl-ref/ (docs/key_changes.txt source/tutorial.cc): Update tutorial introduction. 02:22:11 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r1c587744b9a5 10/crawl-ref/source/tutorial.cc: tutorial.cc: Add comment about currently unused "interesting" checks. 02:22:11 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r1c99f30abe50 10/crawl-ref/source/stuff.cc: Set MOUSE_MODE_MORE while waiting for input in yesno(). Fixes #987. 02:22:13 03Enne 07stone_soup-0.6 * r4862b1ba6e50 10/crawl-ref/source/ (terrain.cc terrain.h tilepick.cc view.cc): [975] Fix secret door issues in tiles. 02:22:16 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.6 * r80dd45f0c221 10/crawl-ref/source/ (chardump.cc crash-u.cc files.cc files.h l_file.cc): Protect against symlink attacks when writing morgues and dumps. 02:22:18 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.6 * r994572389426 10/crawl-ref/source/makefile: Touch the scores and logfile so they're owned by root:games. 02:22:21 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * rfe1d6bdd8595 10/crawl-ref/source/xom.cc: Fix broken brand check in xom.cc::_try_brand_switch. 02:22:22 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * rc497d219653f 10/crawl-ref/source/stuff.cc: Fix #1002: Print error messages passed into end() on a separate screen. 02:22:27 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r3f89ff39d9d1 10/crawl-ref/source/ (files.cc stuff.cc stuff.h): Only print error messages for save incompatibility to the screen. 02:22:28 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.6 * rfa0476c12406 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Announce monsters destroying shafts only if you can see that. 02:22:30 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * rb08a7f0fcc5b 10/crawl-ref/source/actor-los.cc: Update monster's LOS if close enough to the player. 02:22:34 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r440c9c9f73ad 10/crawl-ref/source/ (files.cc stuff.cc stuff.h): Break lines correctly when printing error messages to the screen. 02:22:35 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r02d6372b44c8 10/crawl-ref/source/stuff.cc: Reinstate cio_cleanup/databaseSystemShutdown at the beginning of end(). 02:22:40 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r4ddbf10fbef8 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Fix #964: special_damage_message not checking for los 02:22:42 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r22b59cf2d171 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-util.cc: Disable 'z' range check for fire storm. 02:22:45 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * rd0b0a51a9b99 10/crawl-ref/settings/init.txt: init.txt: Add commented force_more to prevent z/Z errors. 02:22:46 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r5a4cf0eada04 10/crawl-ref/source/food.cc: Use menu colour rather than message colour tags for the chunk prompts. 02:22:50 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * rd22b3fdbeaeb 10/crawl-ref/source/godprayer.cc: Split up godprayer.cc:offer_items a little. 02:22:51 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r4ae38b36e14e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files): Merge Jiyva item sacrifice with offer_items(). 02:22:52 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r512f1603e93f 10/crawl-ref/source/godprayer.cc: Modify Jiyva piety gain. 02:23:15 so has anyone looked into wizlab loot issues? 02:23:25 that's really the last thing we're waiting on, i think 02:23:36 I think they're rare enough that this doesn't really matter 02:24:34 that's possible 02:26:45 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * rbe1eb49a4aa1 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Reduce redundancy in bolt::nuke_wall_effect. 02:26:47 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r08b20343ce7f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (terrain.cc terrain.h): Add connected_doors, wrapper around find_connected_range. 02:26:50 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * rfbc9110a489d 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Allow doors to be disintegrated. 02:30:56 Master branch on CDO updated to: 0.6.0-a2-526-gfbc9110 (16.6) 02:34:19 by, I added another hint to the bug report page, that the version string without hash is not enough. 02:38:21 -!- MarvinPA-2 is now known as marvinpa 02:38:31 ok, thanks, though I don't remember complaining about this :) 02:38:42 -!- marvinpa is now known as MarvinPA 02:39:06 yeah, by is like the only one here at the moment who didn't have anything to say about it(: 02:42:05 wait 02:42:10 *g*fbc9110? 02:42:15 g isn't even a hex digit! 02:42:24 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Over the ages, man has been certain of a great many things. some of these things were even true.] 02:44:27 Base 17, obv. 02:45:31 Twinge: Obvious to anyone who knows Base 17. 02:45:36 sorear: standard git describe output 02:46:44 Hi. 02:46:44 due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 02:46:49 !messages 02:46:50 (1/1) greensnark said (28m 36s ago): !lg * ikiller=antique lich 02:46:54 !!! <3 02:47:06 lolwut? 02:47:28 !lg * ikiller=antique lich 02:47:28 1. Chigusa the Destroyer (L17 DrWz), worshipper of Sif Muna, blasted by a dragon (blast of flame) (summoned by a Blue Death (summoned by an antique lich)) in WizLab on 2010-03-05, with 182915 points after 98995 turns and 18:35:55. 02:47:36 Oh maaaan. 02:47:43 Shouldn't be "in WizLab" though. 02:47:49 Gretell: Is there anything we can do about "in WizLab"? 02:48:17 greensnark, sorry. 02:48:21 lol 02:48:28 I was about to say... 02:48:35 What should it be 02:50:22 in Zonguldrok 02:50:42 -!- Blitz82 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:50:43 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:50:48 That should be set up in the wizlab portal 02:51:08 * Keskitalo nods 02:53:06 oops, sorry, by & doy - half eye open when I read the email to the list this morning :D 02:53:30 -!- Madtrixr has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:53:30 -!- Blitz82 is now known as Madtrixr 02:55:37 how can one name the thrown missiles item index "hand_used"??? 02:56:19 Zonguldrok's Mausoleum. 02:56:28 I honestly thought I had it fixed, so maybe it is the bork. 02:57:14 due: I lazily repeated the wizlab name when I made the milestones, it should probably be a local variable/constant defined earlier. 02:57:45 Ahhhhhhhh 02:58:02 The variables need to be set earlier 02:58:31 Hm. 02:58:38 greensnark: dgn.set_level_type_origin("in " .. wizlab_desc) 02:58:44 seemed too work before, so I'm not sure what's changed now 03:00:02 Oh look, people dismayed by the loss of div! 03:00:14 Yeah, fun to read. 03:00:48 But something to look at, definitely: treasure encased in stone without secret doors. 03:01:04 Unfindable without spoilers now, isn't it? 03:01:05 Excellent idea, let's do it. 03:01:09 03due * r5a8760735ff5 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/clua/lm_trove.lua: Hopefully finally fix jewellery issues with Troves. 03:01:09 ahaha :D 03:01:14 Oh. 03:01:19 I don't think there are any? 03:01:23 Cerebov's? 03:01:33 Add secret doors? 03:01:38 *nod* 03:01:51 Need to review vaults and do some changes. Hmh. For 0.6? 03:02:16 Yes 03:02:21 Absolutely 03:02:29 WizLab loot and Volcano loot also need another look-over 03:02:44 I'll add it to the wiki.. don't have the time Right Now.. 03:03:10 I'm trying to fix troves while I finish dinner. 03:04:25 :) 03:05:13 weekend also bodes badly for free time 03:06:36 For what it's worth I still advocate for the eradication of secret doors 03:06:54 They are completely non-tactical and only invite grinding 03:07:08 agree 03:08:03 we need more interesting doors 03:08:08 I find those "secret doors are so precious that magic mapping somehow can't map anything behind them" ridiculous too. 03:08:37 interesting doors? what do you have on mind? 03:08:42 Revolving. 03:09:00 trapped doors, slow doors, revolving doors (auto open and close) 03:09:08 kilobyte: me too 03:09:10 Magic mapping can map behind secret doors, no/ 03:09:14 due: no 03:09:17 Oh. 03:09:27 after endless pestering by dpeg I implemented that late Dec 03:09:52 irecall. 03:10:17 seriously not?! :-O 03:11:02 It was quite nice in the Crypt ending I got I thought. :) 03:12:23 Mapped part of it, had to look for doors for the rest. 03:14:22 &~D1 03:14:30 Er 03:14:32 Not my crawl 03:15:04 03by * r019df561c5a3 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: _mons_throw cleanup. 03:15:06 03by * r03833ec638ad 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Fix thrown weapon inventory handling. 03:29:56 -!- permagreen has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:52 I think that's it for Troves... 03:30:56 03due * r7a3253365463 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/clua/lm_trove.lua: Deal properly with ego-less but ego-able items in Troves. 03:30:56 !tell doy I think that's it for troves! :D 03:30:56 due: OK, I'll let doy know. 03:31:00 03due * r290976fc87fa 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/trove.des: Reduce shop item value for Troves. 03:31:18 Or... not. 03:34:06 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 03:34:21 Iconoclasm & Heresy! 03:34:22 03due * r648f61d6cda9 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/trove.des: Fix jewellery with pluses being picker from shops (Troves). 03:34:34 Goood Morning Dpeg! 03:35:09 Hi! 03:35:18 Lots of complaints about the changes to mapping and Div :) 03:44:31 Can I have some iconoclasm with a side order of heresy 03:44:38 And some fries with that 03:44:46 Moin David :) 03:45:07 It's the peg from the gates of Angband 03:45:16 greensnark: how about some civil disorder along the side? 03:45:34 Civil disorder is less appealing than heresy 03:45:37 * greensnark likes heresy. 03:45:39 yes, that is true 03:45:49 Regicide! 03:45:55 Cannot go wrong with that. 03:46:09 One Anarchy Burger, Hold The Government, Coming up! 03:46:11 Heh, dpeg got his ass kicked by a talking dog 03:46:13 * Madtrixr rings a bell. 03:46:38 permagreen: I beg your pardon? 03:46:57 omg.. playing nethack and it's like.. omg terrible! 03:47:04 Napkin: We warned you! 03:47:16 Napkin: do you play the German version? 03:47:18 greensnark said it! 03:47:21 What's Napkin playing? 03:47:30 unnethack 03:47:32 dead games 03:47:33 non-german 03:47:37 Oh dear. 03:47:49 lala.. door.. locked? kick.. 03:47:49 lala.. door.. locked? kick.. 03:47:51 oh, sorry, live forks of dead games 03:47:59 lala.. door.. locked? kick.. shop-keeper? -> dead 03:48:16 Napkin: kicking is noisy! You are supposed to search for traps a couple of times, untrap if necessary and force open. 03:48:23 Doesn't NH have that special case to prevent cursed daggers from breaking when untrapping chests 03:48:29 Be sure to spend at least 20 keystrokes with every door and chest. 03:48:40 The first time I got a cursed dagger I thought: "I know, I'll just break it in a chest!" 03:48:43 Hilarity ensued 03:48:45 greensnark: teh suck! :) 03:48:57 greensnark: Yeah, it totally does. 03:49:18 force? tutorial only talks about kicking ;> 03:49:32 Ha, they never teach you everything. 03:49:34 Wait, there's a tutorial? 03:49:38 greensnark: UnNH 03:49:50 UnNH has a tutorial? I never knew! 03:49:51 do I really have to read a wiki page about "opening doors in nethack"? 03:50:00 greensnark: Patrick also stole our Ctrl-O and bragged about the new feature in r.g.r.n! 03:50:00 :-O 03:50:07 Napkin: This is a skilled task that requires a PhD in door opening 03:50:10 (attention: slightly misleading statement) 03:50:18 hehe, greensnark 03:50:24 It has a dungeon overview too? 03:50:30 so.. I should try vanilla nethack too? 03:50:30 yes, just now 03:50:33 Napkin: no! 03:50:40 yes! 03:50:45 Napkin: only if you want to see the Abyss. 03:51:13 ctrl+o only shows name of the current level - and the one you came from? 03:51:27 unless.. i might have to find interesting stuff first to make something show 03:51:31 Napkin: the door wasn't locked! 03:51:35 Napkin: hm, perhaps the server is not up to date? It should mention altars, fountains etc. 03:51:43 it was locked, bhaak 03:51:44 The devil is here! 03:51:46 bhaak: Nice work on Ctrl-O 03:51:51 or close.. or whatever 03:51:54 "The door resists!" 03:52:06 the door in the dungeon of doom are of inferior quality 03:52:10 bhaak: All you need now is ^F and o and G! 03:52:14 He is stealing our players!!! 03:52:50 Driven from Crawl paradise into the Nethack enslavement and obliteration. Sniff. 03:52:51 so is it true that roguelike devs get powers from worshipping users? 03:52:56 Competition is good 03:53:03 Adeon: from whipping users! 03:53:11 We need competition to drive Crawl innovation 03:53:18 And look, there's been no competition! 03:53:19 Adeon: If that was true I think the Nethack devs would rule the world by now 03:53:20 Until now 03:53:31 Or at least there would be a bloody war with the Angband devs 03:53:35 greensnark: there is DF and POWDER and many other games I don't know. 03:53:47 dpeg: Not interface-wise :P 03:53:52 greensnark: no, not there. 03:54:00 so I guess, crawl's doors always open? 03:54:05 if not locked? 03:54:05 sure 03:54:08 no locks 03:54:13 Of course, bhaak is handicapped by needing all his interface elements to be green in colour 03:54:13 greensnark: did you read the last @play column? 03:54:25 bhaak is like the Wizard of Oz 03:54:25 GreenHack? 03:54:31 Have you seen his screenshots!? 03:54:33 Green! 03:54:34 no! 03:54:38 Not that I'm not a fan of green 03:54:41 greensnark: you should like that. 03:54:42 DF interface is hilarious 03:54:44 As a colour for snarks, for instance 03:54:57 lol 03:54:57 syllogism: hilariously good? 03:55:11 hilariously complex 03:55:13 it's pretty bad but you get used to it 03:55:41 reading a tutorial for 4 hours and THEN you might be able to start the game 03:55:54 too bad the next version is apparently even more resource intensive 03:56:05 Can it use multiple cores? :P 03:56:11 no way :P 03:56:14 bhaak: I always infer from this that the DF guys have an almost orthogonal vision of what a good game is (compared with us), which is good. 03:56:38 DF is cool 03:56:44 greensnark: you play it?! 03:56:47 No :P 03:56:50 Your life is in danger. 03:56:51 Tarn Adams isn't a programmer 03:56:51 ah 03:56:51 I read the devblog now and then :P 03:56:54 sure, it is cool, but ... 03:57:05 at least he has some guys helping him now 03:57:12 And I have this friend who's an addict who tells me about his awesome fortresses 03:57:13 syllogism: so he managed to get DF to this proportions just like Linley did? 03:57:26 syllogism: source is open? 03:57:27 dpeg: well made some other games before DF 03:57:28 hmm balrug is missing an in-game description 03:57:29 DF sounds pretty neat, though perhaps only roughly fitting the definition of a roguelike 03:57:31 dpeg: no :P 03:57:33 I could keep you busy all day talking about my fortress 03:57:46 dpeg: greensnark referred to that: http://bhaak.dyndns.org/nethack/nethack_inventory.png 03:57:56 * dpeg curses blinded developers. 03:58:05 Eeeek green 03:58:20 hey, monochrome monitor flashback 03:58:24 with colours! 03:58:28 green is the color of cryptonite, so it's good! 03:58:32 he has been working on it for like 10 years :P 03:58:42 ein Amulett gegen Gift 03:58:48 Can we use that as 0.6 codename 03:58:55 No. Because of 03:58:58 Heizölrückstoß 03:59:10 Is that official? We should add it to the release notes 03:59:11 * permagreen does not know German 03:59:48 learn it! 03:59:56 how? 04:00:00 syllogism: I don't know why, but there are so many closed source roguelikes around. Granted, DF is at least making money on it, but Incursion, ADOM etc. So stupid. 04:00:22 sorear: Guten Tag! Nein, danke. Verdammte Scheiße. Auf Wiedersehen. 04:00:32 Nabend 04:00:39 You left that out 04:00:40 dpeg: those people somehow have the feeling that other people could steal their valuable source code or ideas 04:00:46 ADOM especially bugs me since the guy who wrote it isn't even working on it anymore. 04:00:53 bhaak: I know, but that's part of the stupidity. 04:01:15 bhaak: it is an extremely short-sighted and close-minded approach. 04:01:29 greensnark: the ctrl-o dungeon map overview wasn't my work, it's a patch to 3.4.3 from 2006! 04:01:55 Crawl has had it forever, in various forms :) 04:02:03 bhaak: Crawl's dungeon overview used to look like this, but then I proposed the current, much more compact version. 04:02:27 I wonder when the overview was added 04:02:39 sorear will know. 04:02:44 sorear: When was the dungeon overview added to Crawl? 04:02:51 He is an archeologist specialising in Crawl source. 04:03:01 but crawl has different needs for a dungeon overview than nethack 04:03:05 bhaak: yes 04:03:19 I don't think anybody actually *used* the dungeon overview before 0.4 04:03:25 http://202.38.126.65/mirror//math.stanford.edu/theses/tarn_thesis.pdf 04:03:28 that's when level annotations wen't in, anybody 04:03:30 anyway 04:03:32 sorear: I did. 04:03:33 he is like dpeg but can actually program a bit :P 04:03:42 syllogism: thank you :) 04:03:51 hmm, "the door resists!" was added in 3.0.0 in nethack. Like a lot of stuff. time to kick it out 04:03:56 dpeg: There's a bootstrap problem; I see lots of great material on German but it's all _in German_. So annoying :p 04:04:38 sorear: okay, here is the translation: Good day. No, thanks. Bloody shit. Good bye. These should get you through Germany easily. 04:04:39 sorear: jump into the cold water (as the german saying goes) :) 04:04:54 I used the dungeon overview back in b26 :P 04:05:02 Had to know which level the branch stairs were on :P 04:05:02 dpeg: ADOM closed source is good! It taught me about code diving and Assembly! 04:05:03 "ein doener mit scharf, bitte" 04:05:13 He has Ralph Cohen as a PhD referee. Not bad. 04:05:23 But functional analysis ==> no wonder he went coding :P 04:05:34 The UNA bomber also did functional analysis. 04:05:38 *** Math snobbery warning ** 04:05:58 greensnark: You missed a * 04:06:02 USE_SILENCE_CODE I've never been overly fond of silence. I don't like the way it cancels enemy priests and spellcasters. 04:06:05 there is no way to interact with my pet in nethack - is there? 04:06:13 from an anonymous developer in the beta26 changelog 04:06:15 sorear: but it is much better now? 04:06:18 ah 04:06:38 Napkin: you can leash it, if you have a leash, or you can throw food at him, otherwise I don't think there's direct interaction 04:06:41 Napkin: the pet is one of the genuinely cool things in Nethack, 04:06:43 oh, you can talk to it :) 04:06:44 Napkin: You can (C)hat to it 04:06:47 it can even kill you. 04:06:56 ok, from beta26 changes.340 04:06:58 12.09.1999 [Linley Henzell] 04:06:58 * "Over-map" added 04:06:58 no, that's #chat 04:07:18 Hah, our dungeon overview is much older than your dungeon overview :P 04:07:54 bhaak: Oh right... that just made me realize how long it's been since I played that game 04:08:05 (C)hat is an ADOM binding 04:08:07 I'll laugh longer, when unnethack is more popular than crawl^Wjesus! 04:08:21 which I've moved to (I)nteract to free up C for (C)lose door 04:08:50 Huh, now that's interesting. There's a whole setup to make holy word scrolls more powerful depending on your piety if you're worshipping a good god, except that it isn't actually *used*... 04:08:55 one of the few things ADOM has going for it, it makes custom keymaps really easy 04:09:06 !tell doy 03833ec6 should go in 0.6 (fixes unlinked item bug; not sure what effects that has precisely in non-debug builds) 04:09:06 by: OK, I'll let doy know. 04:09:26 omg.. the first weapon in found so far - in 4 games.. and it's cursed :-O 04:09:38 *I found so far 04:09:49 Yeah, I had a brief fling with ADOM before coming to Crawl. I very quickly got bored of rescuing that damn carpenter over, and over, and over again 04:10:02 the first time you run ADOM, it spits out a keymap documentation file 04:10:13 permagreen: Hey, I didn't know you were a fellow carpenter hater 04:10:17 you clearly see, that Napkin is no nethack-pro. He tries items :) 04:10:18 but it's not just documentation - you can edit it, and it gets parsed 04:10:26 From the acknowledgements of Tarn's thesis: "Tatiana Toro has provided me with guidance for many years. ... she invited me to a conference ... in Banff where I learned many things and met many interesting people. I was surrounded by toads in the mountains. It was fantastic." 04:10:45 yeah he always blogs about his trips :P 04:11:15 permagreen: Yeah I always save the carpenter for when I know I have a winner, I don't like excessive carpenter saving 04:11:26 and his cat 04:11:27 Really the ADOM quest system needs more variety 04:11:51 syllogism: yes, but that is the second paragraph in the acknowledgements of this thesis :) 04:11:55 Mostly I'm a more general non-random quests in a more or less random environment hater 04:12:16 sorear: that could be have long been done by now with open source 04:12:34 dpeg: yes I can read :P 04:12:35 In effect, the closed-sourceness of the others only helps the open sourced games. 04:12:56 Heh, try arguing that on the ADOM forum 04:13:26 Adom does have nice locations though :P 04:13:31 yes 04:13:32 * greensnark <3 water dragon cave 4ever. 04:13:37 I'll have to revisit that again sometime, try suggesting at least a middle ground - a partial release to a select group that can bugfix it at least. 04:13:44 dpeg: what do you think about jeff lait's approach. It's not really open sourced. 04:13:52 Yes, very beautiful and scenic ascii landscapes 04:13:55 it also has some hilarious antisavescumming code :P 04:14:00 syllogism: his whole acknowledgements are quite wacky. <3 My one has four lines. 04:14:21 bhaak: yes, but Jeff really knows what he is doing :) 04:14:33 Napkin: you have know something interesting on your dungeon map overview! 04:14:54 ah, oh right 04:14:57 Funny how many bugs we've found code-diving ADOM; there really are a ton of unseen bugs in that game. sorear just keeps finding more too. 04:15:33 dpeg: he always does. It's almost uncanny how competent he is :) 04:15:38 sorear: you still do that? 04:16:04 bhaak: yes, I talked to him a few times. Great vision, he helped push the rl genre. 04:16:11 still helps 04:16:44 Twinge: why would you do that? Last time I did reverse assembling was for games on the 7501. 04:17:41 Hey, Spork has the berserk spell :P 04:18:48 dpeg: to learn more about the internals of the game =) I don't have the skills to hop in from scratch like sorear did, but another code-divded named Vlad gave me his data to start from. I originally was interested in the effects of all the various corpses, since the known data for them was clearly inaccurate in many ways. 04:18:53 gee.. didn't i read I worship Tyr at the very beginning? can't seem to find that info to show up in game again.. and then I pray at a neutral altar and Odin is pleased :-O 04:18:59 this is sooo confusing, bhaak! 04:19:16 Napkin: Have you converted yourself before the quest?! :P 04:19:23 You do know that you can no longer win the game in that case?! 04:19:27 Napkin: ctrl-x 04:19:32 Which is one of NetHack's intuitive reasonable features 04:19:44 bhaak: Can you fix that in UnNH? :) 04:19:53 I think Spork fixed it, but I can't recall how 04:19:55 dpeg: It's fun, it's a great big puzzle 04:20:02 sorear: yes, I can see that. 04:20:23 I must watch Napking's game 04:20:23 I'm still bitter about the scroll of omnipotence never being implemented 04:20:29 But for the game itself, wouldn't it be possible after all these years to write an open source version of ADOM? Or is that verboten? 04:20:30 ermm.. it shows 3 deities now - still confused :D 04:20:34 I wasted quite a while attempting to get it :P 04:20:57 syllogism: that scrolls sounds like a powergamer's wettest dream :) 04:20:57 greensnark: kill your leader, that opens the stairs to the quest 04:21:04 Napkin: There's always three deities, one each for lawful, neutral and chaotic 04:21:07 bhaak: good one 04:21:07 bhaak: <3 04:21:22 well he is writing Jade so I doubt he would want an open source competitor 04:21:24 I have no reason why the devteam refuses to fix that :) 04:21:26 "writing" 04:21:30 there is also a very useful information on that page: (s,c) 04:21:36 greensnark: "devteam" 04:21:38 Napkin: starting, current 04:21:47 more like blogging about it every 6 months 04:21:48 obviously :D 04:21:48 dpeg: It'd be a slap in the face of Thomas Biskup though. I'm not actually sure he's familiar with DCSS< however - it'd be a good example of how open sourcing a game can remain focused and continually improving, instead of his fear of there being tons of crappy variants out there. 04:22:05 greensnark: that's the spork solution, I haven't fixed it yet, haven't come up with a better solution yet, will probably copy spork's solution :) 04:22:09 thanks! then I can still win - both at Tyr, greensnark :-P 04:22:14 Twinge: he'll hate DCSS because no quests, no plots, no storyline. 04:22:20 Napkin: Cool :) 04:22:28 I for one would welcome our new ADOM in Space! 04:22:37 bhaak: yes, it's a very natural solution. 04:22:58 now I'm imagining an ADOM/Crawl crossover game 04:23:04 save the world! with balanced rules! 04:23:22 sorear: you would have about zero developers, though :) 04:23:23 What would the offspring of balors and balrugs look like 04:23:51 dpeg: Sure, it's a different kind of rogue-like entirely, which is fine. But I'm just referring to the way it has evolved - there are some other little variants here and there (heck, like Sprint) but DCSS has remaining the core that people turn to and it keeps getting better. His main fear of open-sourcing is that ADOM will splinter into a bunch of variants he has no control over whatsoever. 04:24:31 If you want control, you need to be seen as someone with initiative 04:24:50 Brent completely lost control here after only two years of laziness 04:24:52 dpeg: Disagree. ADOM still maintains a reasonable popularity, especially considering all the bugs and no development for a decade. if it was opened up, there would be people to work on it, sorear and myself included I'm sure. 04:24:54 Twinge: I think what he fears may happen, it is a possibility. But you can control that, by assigning good players (who share your vision) as next devteam. 04:25:41 Twinge: oh, I meant zero developers for an ADOM-Crawl crossbreed. Not for ADOM OSS, of course. 04:26:01 Ah, right. 04:26:04 If Thomas opens ADOM and disappears for a few years, he's going to completely lose the helm 04:26:47 lol, the messenger is funny :) 04:26:52 sorear: Perhaps. But the ADOm community has enough respect for him that he should be able to at least regain some of that control even after being absent for a long time, if he chooses to. 04:27:00 sorear: yes, but he could assign the helm to somebody he trusts (and who he hopes will be active) 04:27:17 Twinge: I am not so sure. What would *we* do if Linley emerged? 04:27:48 We would listen to him, but would we follow? (Not that I think Linley would give orders, he is a good guy.) 04:28:05 greensnark <3 04:28:14 dpeg: I don't know. I'm only going by theory here, no experience in such situations really. And it of course depends on just how much control is desired :) 04:28:28 I had hoped the acid blob would eat away my cursed elven broadsword ;) 04:28:35 bhaak! FRFRFR! 04:28:41 Napkin: Just corrode it :P 04:29:10 oh.. right.. rusty & corrode.. that's supposed to be bad, right? :D 04:29:17 right 04:29:26 I think elf weapons can't rust because they're made of wood 04:29:39 It's been a while :) 04:29:47 unlike Crawl, NetHack treats enchantment and damage as semi-orthogonal 04:29:53 I mean, clearly if TB or Linley came back and is like 'undo everything you've done over the past 2 years, it doesn't fit my vision' that wouldn't happen. But some level less than that, even somewhat drastic, may very well be respected unless it was an awful idea :) 04:30:01 Napkin: FR? 04:30:06 rusty is almost the same as -1, except you can't fix it with ?EW 04:30:32 Napkin seems to be enjoying the throw interace 04:30:52 sorear: but confused you can? 04:30:52 well.. hoped it could be useful 04:30:56 but nooooo... 04:30:57 yeah, although quivering the stones would be cool :) 04:31:15 Twinge: well, sure, Linley FRs would have high priority, even if not on the tracker. 04:31:18 did you switch off autopickup again? 04:31:27 Should anything else affect the power level of holy word besides good god piety? 04:31:33 FR = Feature Request, bhaak ;) 04:31:39 Twinge: no, I don't think so. 04:31:47 me? auto_pickup? yeah 04:31:48 Twinge: An interesting case may be provided by Brent, who stayed active on USENET a couple years after he stopped properly maintaining Crawl... in that time, the only SS changes he really hated were statue monsters and the 0.2 chain lightning buff 04:31:56 Actually, Josh Fishman once appeared on the mailing list. Anyone noticed that? 04:31:57 dpeg: I'm asking for what it should be, not what it is, if that's not clear. 04:32:04 it's picking up stuff during combat 04:32:11 dpeg: who? 04:32:15 that's contra-productive, i think 04:32:15 Twinge: I understood. 04:32:18 Napkin: autopickup in NetHack is a free action 04:32:23 Napkin: that doesn't hurt, it doesn't take time :) 04:32:31 sorear: Josh Fishman, was in the Crawl 4 devteam, I think. 04:32:40 ah, so the orcs would have hit me anyways? 04:32:50 ok.. but.. why? 04:33:06 because it was simpler to code that way 04:33:23 picking up a tiny tin from the ground takes no turn? reminds me of Chebradpit's step out of time ;) 04:34:00 the ADOM autopickup is particularly odd, it's a free action but makes your *previous* action take double time 04:34:04 oh - and it picked up stuff, that I dropped earlier 04:34:17 yes 04:34:27 bhaak: Need pickup_dropped option defaulting to false :) 04:34:27 ISFLAG_DROPPED is a uniquely Crawl feature 04:34:31 It's pretty handy! 04:34:37 bhaak: yes, default options must be good. 04:34:45 Don't expect new players to change options. 04:34:48 I almost never use autopicup in other games because they lack ISFLAG_DROPPED 04:35:02 and pickup_thrown only works when autopickup is on.. pity 04:35:13 Are all undead and demons immune to fear anyway? holy word sets fear but tat doesn't seem to actually do anything 04:35:47 Napkin: NetHack players are expected to manually configure autopickup_exceptions for all the stuff they don't want 04:36:15 it's common practice to cargo cult entire config files from senior folk like Eidolos 04:36:35 (do you remeber the days of doy.crawlrc sharing?) 04:36:56 except it was called doy.nethackrc because of a hilarious dgamelaunch bug 04:37:01 sorear: but then I went ahead and added some of his stuff to the trunk. 04:37:20 sorear: I don't think that was a dgl bug, just "Who cares what it's called" :) 04:37:26 dpeg: exactly. The players are right when they say what option defaults should be.. 04:37:27 I care! 04:37:52 Yeah, I think rax changed it because it distressed you :) 04:37:52 bhaak: well, sometimes the players can't decide. Then it's good to have an option. But very often, there is a clear preference. 04:38:03 oh, it got changed? 04:38:19 The rc files are named correctly now 04:38:26 Unless we're talking about different things :) 04:39:09 no no 04:39:24 ok.. let me guess.. putting on this tiny armour I just found is a bad idea again, huh, bhaak? 04:39:46 First we make it an option, defaulting to the new possibility. 04:39:56 Then we wait for the court of public opinion to decide. 04:40:07 Then we change the default and optionally remove the option. 04:40:12 This is how it should work. 04:40:14 !tell doy I suggest adding 6b7ee2f4 to 0.6: "18 explode elf darts (runed)" in quiver or "20 steel runed bolts" on ground sound quite buggy 04:40:15 by: OK, I'll let doy know. 04:40:41 dpeg, greensnark: yeah, pickup_dropped is on my TODO-list since a long time, didn't come around to do it 04:41:04 sorear: yes, exactly 04:41:24 There could be one additional step where we keep the option, but remove the documentation. 04:41:31 Napkin: armor isn't usually bad :) 04:42:15 lol, but weapons are? 04:42:44 Napkin: well, armor can be cursed, too, but for that you've got an altar :) 04:42:58 pardon? 04:43:12 O_o 04:43:29 drop items on the altar to find out their BUC state 04:43:34 BUC? 04:43:36 :D 04:43:41 blessed-uncursed-cursed 04:44:01 ah, ok - does it work with weapons too? 04:44:27 bhaak: this mechanic is what makes interlevel travel desirable in NH. 04:44:55 Napkin: yes 04:45:23 What's the function for 'random of the average of 2 rolls' again? 04:45:58 random2avg? 04:46:09 Yeah, I think so, thanks. 04:46:39 random2avg is N rolls 04:47:48 2d10 is roughly the same as random2avg(20, 2) I think 04:48:02 bhaak, can i select multiple things to drop at once? 04:48:41 Napkin: D 04:49:12 oh.. pity - a menu consistent with the pickup menu would be nice 04:50:16 Napkin: it is, if you press 'D a', then you have the exact same, but in the D menu you would also have 'unpaid' or 'items of unknown BUC' categories 04:52:04 heh 04:52:07 interesting 04:52:33 wonder what people would say, if you add that additional category menu before the pickup menu too ;) 04:53:08 well, sorry for all the spam 04:53:26 hey, this is all on-topic in ##crawl-dev :P 04:53:28 this is seriously way too dependent on spoilers 04:54:02 why not at least add the wikipedia entries into the game for quick access ;) 04:54:10 *wiki entries 04:54:38 how should a player have known, that the altar figured out the BUC status for you 04:54:41 Jeff Lait? 04:55:38 due: the POWDER guy 04:56:48 Napkin: that's one of the criticisms that nethack is only theoretically winnable unspoiled 04:57:25 Ahhh 04:57:32 I've never played POWDER. 04:57:39 To be honest, I've played... crawl and nethack. 04:57:44 I disenjoyed the latter. 04:58:21 dpeg: I fixed troves! I think. Almost completely! 04:59:01 !tell doy Commits that have hopefully fixed troves: 648f61d6, 290976fc, 7a32533654, 5a8760735ff52. 04:59:01 due: OK, I'll let doy know. 04:59:24 Napkin: How do I make a DGL build again? 04:59:27 USE_DGAMELAUNCH? 05:00:34 Ah, yes. 05:00:37 uhm, 1s 05:00:39 good :) 05:00:48 why are you, due? 05:00:58 Need to fix broken WizLab milestone/death messages. 05:01:01 !lg * ikiller=~antique 05:01:02 ah :) 05:01:08 1. Chigusa the Destroyer (L17 DrWz), worshipper of Sif Muna, blasted by a dragon (blast of flame) (summoned by a Blue Death (summoned by an antique lich)) in WizLab on 2010-03-05, with 182915 points after 98995 turns and 18:35:55. 05:01:10 should be Zonguldrok's Mausoleum, not "WizLab". 05:01:18 I thought it *did* work so now I'm annoyed that it's not :/ 05:01:28 Anyway, I'll let that recompile and get some other stuff done. 05:01:34 oh you guys gonna like that. read the last paragraph of http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/786992adf7b57eb3 05:01:36 !lg * place=WizLab 05:01:36 2. Chigusa the Destroyer (L17 DrWz), worshipper of Sif Muna, blasted by a dragon (blast of flame) (summoned by a Blue Death (summoned by an antique lich)) in WizLab on 2010-03-05, with 182915 points after 98995 turns and 18:35:55. 05:01:39 !lg * place=WizLab -2 05:01:39 1. smiley the Destroyer (L19 DSWz), worshipper of Sif Muna, blasted by an ancient lich (bolt of cold) in WizLab on 2010-03-01, with 217936 points after 97050 turns and 11:02:08. 05:01:49 <3 Doroklohe. 05:02:56 by: In addition to stones identifying, ammunition should probably be identified *before* the death message is generated. "shot by a centaur warrior (runed arrow)", etc. 05:06:41 If I give random2() a negative number, it will return 0 or will it do something else? 05:07:16 it will return 0 05:07:21 Excellent 05:07:23 same as if you pass it 0 05:08:54 when was exploding ammunition added? 05:09:06 Misled-status kills not being attributed to actual monster (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1012) by bookofjude 05:11:01 by: Maybe.. a month ago or so? 05:13:26 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:16:42 Hmm, I guess I don't even need a random chance of paralysing based on HD - they already recover based on their HD, and high HD mobs recover in like 1 turn, which seems fine 05:23:00 03j-p-e-g * r4ddab215118a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc spl-book.cc spl-book.h): Autoinscribe books "beyond your understanding" with {highlevel}. 05:23:04 03j-p-e-g * r589e0335ac18 10/crawl-ref/source/tilereg.cc: For consistency, also suppress out of sight mouseover wall descriptions. 05:23:07 03j-p-e-g * rb44d8667f89e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (food.cc item_use.cc): Also use menu_colour_prefix_tags for butchery prompts. 05:23:08 03j-p-e-g * r7a2f2a4764a3 10/crawl-ref/source/cio.cc: Also set MOUSE_MORE_MODE in cancelable_get_line(). 05:23:42 \o/ @ b44d8667f89e 05:23:55 it was working at a certain time in the past 05:26:19 due: Gretell reports milestone 'place', and you probably want place to stay 'wizlab', no? 05:26:43 place is supposed to be short string, so a long descriptive name is not appropriate 05:27:57 is special_explosion only used for exploding missiles? 05:31:18 I'm tempted to make exploding missiles auto-hit 05:31:36 due: Just back, lunch in a moment. Thanks, many thanks! Long live the trove :) 05:32:14 due: also, the Div blog entry provoked many complaints :) 05:32:38 by: yes, might be a good idea 05:33:19 or just remove them... 05:37:23 greensnark: Hm. 05:37:25 greensnark: I follow you. S o there's no way to specify *which* WizLab? 05:38:57 by: why do you want to remove exploding missiles? 05:39:17 Let's see... how about ~30 average damage for holy word (similar to Throw Icicle at max power) for normal users, up to ~45 average for TSO worshippers with max piety, up to ~40 average for Zin/Elvy maxed, and it paralyzes instead of awkwardly energy-stuns? 05:39:19 because I keep fixing bugs with the implementation 05:39:22 Twinge: 30 is far too low 05:39:22 You think, even with the paralysis? 05:39:23 for a very limited commodity like the scrolls, 80-100 would be more reasonable 05:39:51 Right now it does 16 average for everyone :P 05:41:20 yes 05:41:21 I advocated quintupling it 05:41:21 It's currently useless for any purpose. 05:41:21 Power Creep machine, GO. 05:41:27 I used it on an ancient lich in Zot:5 once. 05:41:31 It... was insignificant. 05:41:43 would it paralyze liches 05:41:55 or pan lords and such 05:41:59 Yes. 05:42:02 -1 05:42:04 I think 80-100 is definitely too much with the paralysis on top, but yeah, considering it only works on a select group of mobs 30 is low 05:42:29 having it work like torment for undead/demons is too much copy-and-paste design? 05:42:43 even if you only get 1-2 on average I don't like having items that instakill hard enemies 05:43:16 it doesnt matter what damage it does if paralyze duration is long 05:43:38 or is it just a turn or two 05:43:43 syllogism: They recover based on HD; an Ancient Lich might recover in 1 turn 05:43:51 oh well that would be fine 05:44:24 60-80 sounds more reasonable for damage 05:45:02 maybe 80-100 wouldn't be bad for good god worshippers 05:45:07 testing on an AL, it was 1-3 turns before they recovered (maybe 2.5 average or so? until they fire on you, I mean) 05:45:12 @?? ancient lich 05:45:12 ancient lich (16L) | Speed: 12 | HD: 27 | Health: 54-162 | AC/EV: 20/10 | Damage: 2013(drain) | Flags: 07undead, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(504), 05fire, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 10742 | Sp: b.cold, paralyse, greater demon, animate dead, iron shot, teleport self / b.draining, animate dead, summon undead, throw frost, crystal spear / b.fire, confuse, haste, b.draining, grea 05:46:16 similar for pan lords, 2 or 3 turns and they're moving again, though I haven't tested extensively 05:46:26 that's 2-3 stabs, which is fine I suppose 05:46:35 or more if hasted 05:46:43 on use multiple scrolls to chain-paralyse 05:46:46 *or 05:47:20 why give a good god bonus? they have it easier against undead and demons anyway 05:48:04 isn't it just tso 05:48:29 by: Because the code was already there (unused) and it seemed like a good ideal thematicaly. 05:48:46 syllogism: TSO gets a better bonus, but the other good gods get a bonus as well. 05:49:04 I mean ely/zin don't help much against demons/undead 05:51:35 true; I still don't like it thematically 05:52:24 why wouldn't they prevent ?holy word for evil god worshippers then? 05:53:05 evil gods punish you for using them :P I suppose they could also deal less damage from evil sources if we want 05:53:28 (Well, any that dislike hoyl usage punish, anyway) 05:53:32 due: It's fine to use 'place' to specify which wizlab, but it should be a shortish name :) 05:56:14 58 average base, 74 TSO max piety, 69 Ely/Zin max piety is what I'm looking at right now. Even as a rare consumable I fear making it TOO good... 05:59:02 Should evil gods do less then? 06:00:54 -!- permagreen has quit [Quit: Welcome to the real world] 06:00:59 Say, 47 average at max piety instead of 58? 06:01:14 nah, evil gods should make it backfire 06:01:33 you're already considered evil by BEAM_HOLY damage modification if you worship an evil god 06:01:58 actor::is_evil, actor::res_holy_energy 06:02:42 Should they still punish you for using a holy item even when it backfires in your face? hehe 06:02:56 It could even be a chance for backfire that doesn't always happen... lots of otpions I suppose 06:06:19 I'm thinking it's still an act such gods frown on, still hurts undead/demon monsters around you, but will always also hit you, same as if you were a Mummy or whatever. 06:10:40 03by * r6d72a803f2af 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Change bolt::special_explosion tracer handling. 06:10:54 -!- Spads has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:11:38 * Twinge snickers 06:11:39 You speak a Word of immense power! The ogre zombie convulses! You have reached level 2! You have reached level 3! You feel stronger. You are blasted by holy energy! 06:11:57 Actually worked first try for a change, that's niced 06:12:05 // Order is important here. 06:12:23 (hate those comments) 06:13:41 Hmm. I guess if we're going this route, though, it should also hurt e.g. orc priests because they worship an evil god 06:13:54 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 06:13:59 -!- ortoslon has left ##crawl-dev 06:20:31 Twinge: *handwave* You are at the center of the effect so the rules are looser 06:21:30 monsters can read them too, though? 06:21:39 And it's not hard to add 06:21:45 (I think) 06:22:38 I don't think monsters can 06:25:43 by: afaiu, reading a scroll of holy word appeals to TSO 06:26:00 either way, I don't see much need to have monster/player inconsistency on this one 06:26:54 plsu the item description would be hard to be accurate and still make sense. 06:28:27 dpeg: I think my main objection that there seems to be a lot of logic with no obvious gain 06:28:33 Twinge: I'm not arguing for inconsistency 06:28:44 I just don't want you to feel that it was needed 06:28:46 by: oh, I agree. But that's how I thought ?HW was supposed to work: you appeal to TSO. 06:29:36 ok; I thought it had some kind of ancient holy words of power that damaged undead when you pronounce them in their presence 06:29:49 by: I may have mis-imagined things :) 06:29:50 sorear: Gotcha. worked on first try - though it'd probably be good to drop the odds of non-priest orcs worshipping Beough by a small amount. 06:30:01 But otherwise I don't see why the gods should play a role. 06:31:03 !seen Chapayev 06:31:03 I last saw Chapayev at Thu Mar 4 01:15:11 2010 UTC (1d 11h 15m 52s ago) quitting with message Client Quit. 06:31:05 I don't see it, either; the reason seems to be that it's possible to implement 06:31:12 ah damn, I have Henzell on ignore 06:31:32 I last saw Chapayev at Thu Mar 4 01:15:11 2010 UTC (1d 11h 15m 52s ago) quitting with message Client Quit. 06:31:32 by: yes, that's a quite Nethackish train of thought. 06:31:39 thanks 06:31:49 Need Sprint 2 now that the TrHu finall won :) 06:32:30 I am fine with removing the god bits from ?HW. 06:32:30 yay; did you rely on the rocks? 06:32:46 by: of *course*, Bought EW scrolls to get them to +3. 06:32:53 The rocks and nets are awesome. 06:33:20 I'll simply change the description to be more explicit on that - instead of 'calling on the powers of Heaven' you'll 'call on the powers of The Shining One' 06:33:48 I also had a very nice endgame: slowed from miasma, Lom Lomon on my heals (it is impossible to kill him), no speed left. So I blinked like a grasshopper and left berserk brothers in the way :) 06:34:02 heh 06:34:13 Twinge: the question is if the appearance of the god is actually a good idea 06:34:38 What does it mean: it makes clear that evil players are harmed by the spell? Do we want that? If so, the god is a good way to get it. 06:35:09 OTOH, TSO players have no need for special damage against evil. 06:35:34 So the question is if we want a scroll that's more useful for Z and E, and not useful for evil gods/species. 06:37:38 greensnark: But if I change place, that means we can't group as place-WizLab any more? 06:37:59 I'll just leave it as WizLab, I think. 06:38:16 due: Yes 06:38:44 We could maybe add iplace or something later? 06:40:53 due: yes, that will be good 06:41:07 dpeg: I think it's a good flavorful tweak; as I said earlier, the code was actually already there but unused for some reason. I somewhat agree with the general principle that simple = better, but I also think small flavor tweaks are good as long as they don't make things notably more confusing for the player or give a clear advantage for spoily info, neither of which is true here. 06:41:11 so place=wizlab iplace=Doroklohe's Tomb 06:41:17 Plus, I already have it coded that way now ;O 06:41:20 Yes, a place qualifier can be added 06:41:40 And I made the text more clear in general - 06:41:40 This scroll calls on the powers of The Shining One to cause great damage to 06:41:40 any nearby undead, demonic, or evil-worshipping creature - including you! 06:41:54 greensnark: Wish i'd noticed before 0.6 got so close, alas. 06:41:58 I guess I could say that it paralyzes in the text too; probably should. 06:42:05 -!- felirx has quit [*.net *.split] 06:42:05 -!- kilobyte has quit [*.net *.split] 06:42:16 Eh, damage is enough probably. 06:42:23 Twinge: oh, I think a god-version can work well. 06:42:36 -!- jooosa has joined ##crawl-dev 06:42:39 It's just not clear if it is worth the effort... Now, that the effort has been spent, why not? 06:42:39 Wasn't holy word an invokable Zin power? 06:43:02 It used to be, yeah. now it still happens during Sanctuary I think 06:43:03 Twinge: tell me, what does the scroll do if the reader is a DS/Vp/Gh/Mu and/or follows an evil god? 06:43:23 dpeg: Still works on surrounding monsters; torments the player. 06:43:37 This was the exsisting code for it, seemed acceptable 06:43:39 Twinge: is there a special messsage for this? 06:43:59 "You are blasted by holy energy!" 06:44:20 Twinge: I believe that the messages should be changed so that TSO figures. 06:44:36 * Twinge nods 06:44:54 "Reading this most holy pamphlet, you appeal to The Shining One." 06:45:47 Pamphlet, eh 06:45:53 Does it ask for donations to the church of TSO 06:45:56 -!- jarpiain_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:46:00 -!- aslakkar_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:46:02 Perhaps the church needs a new golf course for its pastor 06:46:23 That trype of message would probably replace this one instead -> "%s %s a Word of immense power!" 06:46:29 -!- jarpiain has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:46:35 -!- Noeda has joined ##crawl-dev 06:46:41 -!- jarpiain_ is now known as jarpiain 06:47:22 Twinge: yes, exactly. 06:47:28 -!- felirx has joined ##crawl-dev 06:47:28 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 06:47:36 I like that it's a single word, that's cool. 06:47:50 due: single word? 06:48:01 ah, one word :) 06:48:34 "Reciting the holy word, you call The Shining One."? 06:48:44 is the scroll blocked under silence? 06:49:59 All scrolls are. 06:50:15 good, I never use silence ;( 06:50:17 erm, :) 06:50:20 Napkin: how far did your NH adventure go? Got the Candelabrum already? 06:50:37 -!- joosa has quit [*.net *.split] 06:50:37 -!- aslakkar has quit [*.net *.split] 06:50:38 -!- Adeon has quit [*.net *.split] 06:50:38 -!- jooosa is now known as joosa 06:51:04 considering I have to read a wiki page for every single object or decoration - not so far yet ;) 06:51:19 Napkin: do you think you need more wiki pages than for Crawl? 06:51:31 omg, most definitely 06:51:40 i don't need a wiki for crawl at all 06:51:42 It's easy to make jokes on NH... Crawl isn't easy-going either. 06:51:49 Although we at least care =) 06:52:04 i haven't found a command to examin an object yet 06:52:17 ok.. altar - no description, no nothing 06:52:28 Napkin: oh, this exists. Nethack has this built-in help :) 06:52:43 fountain - aha.. last time I drank i was slain by snakes 06:53:06 Crawl is playable without spoilers, though. ADOM/Nethack... aren't so much ;) (though some people do manage to beat them without I guess. Patience!) 06:53:10 Napkin: yes, you simply don't do many things Nethack allows you to do. 06:54:03 i find the first weapon from the same skill i start with and.. "oh, you actually picked up the item and wielded it?!" 06:54:27 first weapon in... 5 games or so 06:54:27 You're supposed to let your cat test the item first :P 06:54:33 hehe 06:54:34 Or drop it on an altar :P 06:54:46 my stupid pets all got stoned 06:54:54 Napkin: stop giving them drugs 06:55:02 oh, yes.. the altar.. the most obvious ;) 06:55:40 so.. how do I get info about an item in my inventory? 06:56:07 drop it to the ground to see the glyph again, then press ?dn?? 06:56:26 Napkin: I have forgotten, to be honest. 06:56:55 Yeah, crawl wins least infuriating game award. 06:57:00 rofl 06:57:00 !tell doy Sorry for the long list, but I think a408941b, 77402ada should also go in (lack of colour feels like a regression); not sure if 44b9f748 is required 06:57:00 by: OK, I'll let doy know. 06:57:17 (i hope bhaak will not get to mad with me) 06:57:34 but ?dnaltar: 06:57:42 Altars are of three types: 06:57:43 Better head to bed; I'll probably make a holy word patch in the next day or two then. 06:57:46 Napkin: well, he is speaking in Crawl territory, I am sure he won't mind. 06:57:47 1. In Temples. 06:57:53 Twinge: sounds good! 06:57:55 -- end of message -- 06:58:27 2. Not in Temples, perhaps 06:58:32 Dunno about the third type 06:58:32 nope 06:58:37 well, yes 06:58:39 3. Outside of temples. 06:58:42 but.... 07:01:10 Napkin: You're still only on D:2?! 07:02:10 Napkin: You're still alive?! 07:02:36 Not just alive, he's found an altar! 07:02:46 An altar of the Second Kind 07:05:27 Secod Kind? 07:05:33 greensnark: nope, the third kind! 07:05:41 Not in Temples (TM) 07:05:57 dpeg: Your third kind is an unoriginal derivative category :P 07:05:59 lol 07:06:17 * dpeg throws a billion gauntlets at greensnark. 07:06:27 something changed with this altar, when i "offer"ed the corpse (?!) of an acid blod :D 07:06:33 * due goes to bed. 07:06:43 due: good night! 07:06:45 Odin and Tyr.. Tyr now 07:06:48 G'night Due :) 07:06:55 Napkin: You converted the altar? Congrats! 07:08:58 dpeg: But yeah, troves are mostly fixed, apart fro mthe bug I just filed about misled monsters, I've only got WizLab loot and louise speech, the latter being lowest priority. 07:09:12 due: awesome. You rock! 07:09:47 I need to go through the filed bugs and confirm they're all okay, but hopefully we're cool. 07:09:50 Anyway, sleeepses. 07:15:44 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 07:15:58 -!- Noeda is now known as Adeon 07:32:50 by: but my identified stones bug is real! 07:33:06 yes, I'm sure 07:33:22 haven't seen it myself, though; can you reproduce it in wizard mode? 07:33:41 by: not sure, I only saw it very often in Sprint and also when testing Crawl. 07:34:03 Napkin: I think you were looking for / or ; or : 07:34:59 omg, what the fuck 07:35:19 you should #pray 07:35:29 no 07:36:30 Leprechaun & mountain nymph in one level? #quit is the better choice :) 07:37:26 you might have hit the nymph level, that one will strip you naked :) 07:37:59 Napkin: this is what NH devs consider fun :P 07:40:40 Nymphs are awesome 07:40:48 * greensnark <3 nymphs. 07:41:05 Leprechauns are pretty boring though :P 07:41:15 in unnethack, there's a whole level of them! and additionaly one ueber-nymph! 07:41:24 Oh, hey, is that from Slash'EM? 07:41:29 Slash'EM had just such a level 07:41:50 yes 07:43:27 well, i think they are stupid 07:43:34 :) 07:43:40 their EV value is like rocket-high 07:43:52 No EV in NH :) 07:44:03 It's all just AC 07:44:18 last game I didn't have a cursed broadsword but a +2 long sword and slashed at it like 50 times? 07:44:31 did you hit them? 07:44:41 not a single time 07:45:44 I hate to say this, but I'm getting tempted to play UnNH 07:45:50 Damnation calls! 07:46:01 not a single potion, not a single scroll, not a single wand.. rather a paralyzing eye with Leprechaun & Nymph around me? 07:46:18 dpeg: you have to discipline your devs! 07:46:27 Elbereth :) 07:46:41 I can't believe that exists 07:47:15 bhaak: We need an autokick command :P 07:47:22 That automatically kicks locked doors :P 07:47:53 greensnark: and you can even get your patches in, probably :) 07:48:20 Only NH would default hilite_pet to false :P 07:48:36 Because somebody's steam-powered VAX would blow a gasket on seeing a highlight :P 07:49:09 bhaak: Nice touch to have editor help at the top of the default options file 07:49:20 Here and I thought it was because the diehard NH fans don't want a cheating option to be on by default 07:49:53 What key is autoexplore 07:50:03 lol 07:50:10 greensnark: don't you want DECgraphics? 07:50:38 Nah, I'm fine :P 07:51:06 I will play the next version of NH, promised. 07:51:07 How do I fix "You cannot drop something you are wearing." :) 07:51:18 boah, how old-fashioned. then you also need to set !menucolors, !newcolors and !color :) 07:51:19 So that it removes the item and then drops it? :) 07:51:26 T and d :) 07:51:37 :P 07:51:52 lua error when entering wizlab_demon (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1013) by 78291 07:52:42 greensnark: I'm currently improving the default rc file on un.nethack.nu because of Napkin's stupid newbie questions ;-) if you have any suggestions? 07:53:17 bhaak: Enable hilite_pet! :) 07:53:21 .nu? Where is that? 07:53:32 Also please allow diagonal movement through doorways :P 07:53:52 yes.. that was very disturbing! 07:53:57 that would remove a strategic element of nh 07:54:04 see, I can talk like dpeg, too! 07:54:24 bhaak: But we use different notions of "strategic" :P 07:54:37 Studden leather armour is apparently studded with 25lb lead slabs 07:55:46 NetHack's item weights >>> Crawl's 07:55:51 For a moment I thought this crude bow was a randart :P 07:55:58 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 07:56:36 in Crawl, you can carry 15+ plate mails but a bunch of wands or decks can easily encumber you 07:57:06 randarts would be cool. but (only a small but) Frostbrand and Firebrand would fall victim to that 07:57:22 Frost brand and Fire brand are incredibly boring anyway :) 07:57:25 and SpWz is unwinnable 07:57:32 sorear: huh? 07:57:37 bhaak: what's the problem with having both fixedarts and randarts? 07:57:46 dpeg: teasing kilobyte 07:57:51 ah :) 07:58:30 Bloody shopkeepers and their pickaxe phobias :P 07:59:03 but really, I've seen _one_ game with realistic inventory (The Two Towers), and nothing else makes even a slight attempt at realism 07:59:27 Hey, wasn't this mimic supposed to grab me before I got away :P 07:59:29 kilobyte: nothing really (only some traditional fixedarts would have to go) and I had to code it up first. I think nethack brass has randarts, but I haven't come around to take a look at it 07:59:44 greensnark: small mimics -> small mimics hands 08:01:14 kilobyte: do you have a plan? I reckon that a realistic approach would be much more harsh than the current situation? 08:03:49 of course 08:04:11 I mean, of course it would be harsher. 08:04:18 and probably bad for playability 08:04:43 kilobyte: if we think that CC for large species is over the top, we can react 08:04:52 It is quite realistic for Sp perhaps :) 08:06:56 bhaak: Can you also track boxes and chests for ^O? :P 08:07:03 T2T requires containers. You have two hands, and can carry two items (if they're not too big) -- including wielded weapons. And so on. That doesn't really fit a roguelike... 08:07:39 what char is the greensnarking playing? 08:08:24 -!- twb has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:08:39 but one thing could be worth bringing here. All items have two numbers, weight and bulk. Encumbrance = max(weight encumbrance, bulk encumbrance). Worn items take 0 bulk. 08:09:25 strength helps with weight encumbrance a lot, but doesn't matter with bulk 08:09:34 kilobyte: I see.... bulk would make it harder to carry 12 plate mails. 08:09:54 Napkin: archaeologist 08:10:16 greensnark: no, that will have to wait till the dungeon-wide search is implemented (whenever that will happen :) 08:11:10 Hee 08:11:14 Slain by a giant bat :P 08:11:25 bhaak: Oh, you're going to do ^F <3 08:11:44 Little tricky given NetHack has no limits on items-per-level 08:12:02 greensnark: I can't promise that it will happen before this decade is out! 08:12:31 bhaak: you need to enlarge your team. 08:12:47 There are so many people coding at NH variants... but there is no focus. 08:12:49 enlarge ur t34m 08:13:33 there are so many? lorimer, paxed, me, some patch writer, ... ? 08:13:47 bhaak: the Netzhack guys 08:13:54 the bot writers 08:14:46 the bot writers don't want to do nethack, they want to beat it :) 08:15:03 some of them could be interesting in improving Nethack 08:15:16 of course, many patch coders have been lost over the years 08:15:23 dpeg: and the netzhack guys, I've seen their code, I don't want to have them on my team. :) 08:15:24 ...because there was no agenda and no focus 08:15:29 bhaak: ah :) 08:15:41 bhaak: please don't send them to us. 08:15:56 that janis likes their silly translations just proves your opinion about him :-) 08:16:04 hehe 08:16:21 Rune der Entrüstung! 08:20:14 bhaak: how do you call it? 08:22:31 dpeg: they also have "Entwuenschung" for uncurse. scroll of destroy armor -> schriftrolle der rüstungszerstörung 08:23:00 s/uncurse/remove curse/ 08:23:07 I have "fluchbannung" for that 08:24:17 -!- scarf has joined ##crawl-dev 08:25:19 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:01 nicht Entfluchung? :) 08:26:07 Schriftrolle der Entfleuchung 08:26:08 greensnark - another most important word: Feierabend! :D 08:26:25 o/ 08:26:32 Napkin: Prost! 08:26:45 :)) 08:26:53 oh, and depending on the region: MAHLZEIT!!!! 08:27:24 also combined into PROST MAHLZEIT 08:27:55 only problem is that you HAVE to say the exclamation marks 08:35:53 Wow, there are two competing nethack-de ports :P 08:36:02 Only two? 08:36:07 greensnark: yes, I think that's a pretty bad sign. 08:36:08 You crazy Germans :P 08:36:26 Can't even agree on how to translate scrolls of remove curse :P 08:36:56 sorear: There are more? 08:37:02 I know there was a Spanish NetHack 08:37:04 I am no German :-P 08:37:13 and a japanese nethack 08:37:14 bhaak: Yes, yes, we've heard that story :) 08:37:20 qui m'a beepé? 08:37:21 I mean about you not being German :) 08:37:26 ah, c'est dpeg. pfuh 08:37:32 and that's only the more-or-less finished ones 08:37:42 I'm afraid that really, the audience for Nethack is drifting rapidly 08:38:20 there are italians, chinese and french versions in the making 08:38:39 all roguelikes will need to compete in different arenas. my target for a roguelike if i had time available would be the iPhone 08:38:43 lorimer: no, I didn't do it! 08:39:19 15:12 <@dpeg> There are so many people coding at NH variants... but there is no focus. 08:39:19 It wasn't dpeg, it was the one-eyed man 08:39:21 as there are far more iPhones than roguelike players, and roguelikes should appeal 08:39:22 15:12 <+greensnark> enlarge ur t34m 08:39:24 15:13 < bhaak> there are so many? lorimer, paxed, me, some patch writer, ... ? 08:39:34 dpeg: yeah, but you started it. i saw you. ;) 08:39:51 lorimer: bhaak claims that NH will forever be the most popular game :) 08:39:53 03j-p-e-g * rc71c7967be0b 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Update change log once again. 08:40:01 * bhaak slaps dpeg around the solar system -- just out of spite! 08:40:07 me, arguably, but I'm trying to help out every NH writer (even the devteam) rather than my own variant 08:40:13 dpeg: ? He's already wrong. Dorf Fortress and Crawl have either already surpassed it or are headed there 08:40:13 lorimer: someone here claims to be from the iPhone team and is working on an iPad Crawl port 08:40:19 there is a version of nethack for the iphone, its horrible though, playing on the servers is better 08:40:28 sorear: "will wait until see finished product" 08:40:30 * dpeg continues to spread half truths about bhaak in distant galaxies. 08:40:32 plus, ipad -- ugh 08:40:36 i'm trying to help all roguelikes that i like 08:41:07 ortoslon: that's the spirit! I like that. 08:41:09 eith: that's what i mean, i'd start a brand new one and take all the good bits from each of them -- and make it native 08:41:15 i sent many brs to dcss, made the most popular doomrl video and recorded a series of spelunky speedruns 08:41:16 Cooperation, not competition. 08:41:24 porting nethack to the iphone would stink like week-old fart 08:41:28 i'm not even trying to write my own 08:42:43 I think iNetHack is rather good, considering that nethack is usually played with a keyboard. 08:43:07 lorimer: what do you think of POWDER? 08:43:11 of course a native one would be better and @play already had a interview with some RL developer for the ipohne 08:43:32 sorear: i like it; i've talked with Jeff a lot about doing native stuff for the DS 08:43:32 bhaak: 10000 Thieves? 08:43:41 bhaak: solar system is mainly vacuum; i'd rather hit dpeg with a neutron star... 08:43:48 but i think the iPhone is probably a better target. 08:43:49 -!- felirx_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:43:50 -!- felirx_ has quit [Client Quit] 08:44:18 stuff for the DS requires a purchase of external hardware; that's an automatic barrier to entry for Joe Gamer 08:44:56 in pre-0.6 tiles, when i level up, crawl waits for a keypress before displaying the levelup message or prompt 08:45:12 That's only a concern if you're interested in a large consumer base. I am pretty sure that Jeff doesn't care. 08:45:25 dpeg: 100 rogues 08:45:27 ortoslon: even with the most recent version? 08:45:34 bhaak: almost the same! 08:45:42 a2-526 08:46:04 lorimer: is the iPhone compatible with the NHPL? I know it's compatible with GPL version 2, but not GPL version 3 08:46:25 NHPL is based on older GPLs so it should be. 08:46:58 dpeg: I agree. Jeff is fine with his audience. But i'm thinking "what if i were to build a new one" -- hence choosing the iPhone over the DS 08:47:11 just wait till i make iUnNetHack! then I'll get rich beyond believes and buy the DCSS team to work on unnethack! muahahaha! 08:47:55 Where is the UnNH repo 08:48:31 greensnark: everything starts from here: # Skill slots 08:48:48 erm, here: http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/ 08:48:54 repository = https://unnethack.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/unnethack 08:48:59 I thought that was some kind of zen koan 08:49:07 lorimer: and make a free flash version, Canabalt style 08:49:54 (that's from my tailor script that converts unnethack to darcs) 08:51:52 re. flash games: http://vacuumflowers.com/temp/tiny_crawl_assemblee 08:52:08 Repetitive game crash on Elf:7 (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1014) by Nexos 08:53:24 urks, "100 rogues" is not in my appstore. Like Civ Revolution :( 08:54:05 Do you all support Apple? I don't. 08:54:13 Hey, we have the Lord of Light playing Crawl :) 08:54:17 !lg * 08:54:17 562561. Maitreya the Sneak (L1 SpAs), slain by a hobgoblin (a cursed -4,+1 orcish club) on D:1 on 2010-03-05, with 56 points after 92 turns and 0:01:37. 08:56:35 it's not about supporting them, it's about "what computer can I give to my dad without constantly being on support 24x7". and that rules out Win32 and - unfortunately - also Linux 08:57:55 my dad has succesfully ran ubuntu for a few years now 08:58:11 but his skills start at getting firefox open and end at browsing the net 08:58:27 bhaak: it rules out all OSes 08:58:41 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:44 and then your $gf gets an iphone and then she gets a mac mini and then her linux notebook breaks and she gets a mac book and you get the old mac mini and then she buys you an iphone touch as a gift. It's just a world-wide conspiracy and I'm at the center! 08:58:54 scarf: yes, but some are ruled out harder than others 09:00:14 All of Microsoft, Apple and Google should be crucified towards hell. 09:00:20 Does not matter which hell. 09:02:22 -!- purge has quit [*.net *.split] 09:02:23 -!- felirx has quit [*.net *.split] 09:02:23 -!- kilobyte has quit [*.net *.split] 09:07:07 why google 09:07:26 They're eating our lives. 09:07:43 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:43 -!- felirx has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:43 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:50 greensnark: are you looking into the crash bug? 09:07:52 crawl eats more of my life than google 09:08:17 ortoslon: but google will take notes about it :) 09:08:37 privacy is only good when there're governments 09:08:42 by: No, sorry, got work to finish before I can take off for the weekend :/ 09:09:00 just asking, don't want to duplicate work 09:09:07 It's all yours, thanks :) 09:11:49 seems to be dead, so: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:species:cat 09:12:04 kilobyte: your idea? :) 09:12:22 mrrraow 09:12:47 I endorse this proposal. The last bullet point alone is worth it 09:13:23 Blade Paws! 09:14:03 I am not allergic to cats. Heck, we had a cat for years :) 09:14:25 well, if greensnark says that, it must be so 09:14:26 bhaak said you were allergic to cats, and bhaak speaks only the truth 09:14:45 This rumour almost as bad as someone repeatedly claiming that bhaak claimed NH would the the roguelike pinnacle in ten years. 09:15:10 repair the mistakes in that sentence yourself, thank you :) 09:15:38 The mere mention of cats makes you fracture grammar 09:15:42 * bhaak endorses the proposal and goes feeding his two cats 09:16:29 * dpeg is angry with the world and eats a few cats to calm down. 09:16:33 this may lead to crawl-specific lolcat pictures, so YES 09:16:58 dpeg: bad luck with allergy, cats are awesome! 09:17:27 ah wait 09:17:32 03by 07stone_soup-0.5 * r6d5f7b77f3d1 10/crawl-ref/source/debug.cc: Fix OSX compile with makefile.unix. 09:17:40 ortoslon: those who are allergic, are allergic to hair, not flesh. 09:18:07 As long as you find someone non-allergic to chop up the cat, you're fine. 09:21:43 pre-0.6 tiles also waits for a keypress before entering shops with autoexplore 09:21:44 lua_marker::read error: dlua_chunk: bad header in precompiled chunk 09:21:47 bah 09:21:51 or just do it in a negative pressure chamber 09:22:09 what kind of architecture is cao? 09:22:32 Debian x86_64 09:22:44 same for CDO 09:23:02 But I'm guessing the crash is unrelated to any Lua floating around, so those errors are probably ignorable 09:23:51 Can we split Henzell into two bots 09:23:59 One that does the announcements, the other for general commands 09:24:13 So that it's easy to block the announcement spam 09:24:32 greensnark: yes, that would help. I have Henzell on ignore :O 09:24:41 Et tu dpeg? :P 09:24:48 greensnark: I'm trying to load the save; can I somehow skip the markers easily? 09:25:02 Oh, hm 09:25:30 also, can integer division by zero cause a floating point exception? 09:26:57 yes 09:27:22 by: I have a core on cao and a backtrace, I can attach the trace 09:27:55 Although the trace is odd... 09:28:31 int main() 09:28:31 { volatile int x = 0; x = x / x; return 0; 09:28:31 } 09:28:39 Floating point exception 09:28:57 greensnark: I'll just add some check against preac <= 0 and hope that fixes it 09:29:11 by: preac is zero, according to this core dump, yes 09:35:55 Integer division by -1 can also cause SIGFPE on x86 *nix 09:37:19 invisible prompts (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1015) by ortoslon 09:38:20 I wonder why the decision to map int0 to SIGFPE was made 09:42:58 greensnark: backtrace might be useful, yes 09:45:29 dpeg: Julian Mensch(incursion dev) plans to go open source once he finishes development unlike ADOM :P He just fears someone taking the reigns since he has to take long breaks in between releases 09:46:08 and he is actually working on it and not just blogging about it 09:46:36 purge: that's what they all say. It's better than nothing, but it still misses the point how open source would improve the project altogether. It is still the old "I know what's best myself" mode of thinking. 09:47:13 but I know what's best myself! I'm just not consistent all the time 09:48:33 i want linley to make that roguelike shmup already 09:48:42 I rarely know what's best and Crawl clearly profited from having lots of input (design and code).. 09:49:26 i still remember when you refused to put monster spoilers ingame :) 09:49:28 greensnark: can you see the value of final? 09:49:39 just because you are fallible doesn't mean we all are ... ;-D 09:50:02 ortoslon: that does not mean that decisions are done by voting. There is something like a vision, there are principles. 09:50:07 Otherwise ==> Nethack 09:50:16 of course :) 09:51:23 it would be much easier if those principles could be hardcoded like unit tests :) 09:51:42 bhaak: you are making jokes about it, we move on. 09:51:56 by: final == 1, apparently 09:52:06 hey, the last part was serious 09:52:28 ok, thanks 09:54:06 being able to express fuzzy concepts in code would be one giant leap for programming (domain specific languages are a step in that direction) 09:58:34 apple sucks! I know.. i have an iphone too 10:08:19 yay, got the crash here 10:08:39 I suspect it's some artefact equipment messing things up 10:12:26 maybe_random2(-3, 0) == -1 10:18:19 03by 07stone_soup-0.5 * rcdf66f0979e3 10/crawl-ref/source/stuff.cc: Make sure maybe_random2 doesn't return negative values. 10:21:05 03by * r17b474f8c590 10/crawl-ref/source/random.cc: Make sure maybe_random2 doesn't return negative values. 10:25:06 -!- karmatic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:34:18 03by * rfe1ef8c08287 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Add some assertions in beam.cc to catch #1014 earlier. 11:01:01 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:04:21 the changelog says skills no longer crosstrain with throwing, but they still do 11:05:34 do branding spells now affect ammunition at all? 11:07:38 -!- raydarken has joined ##crawl-dev 11:10:13 by: slings & throwing crosstrain? 11:10:20 -!- scarf_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:10:39 -!- scarf_ is now known as ais523 11:10:41 skills.cc:_weap_crosstrain_bonus in master 11:12:09 -!- scarf has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:14:52 -!- ortoslon has left ##crawl-dev 11:15:32 by: should ask due tomorrow. 11:19:58 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 11:21:09 re changelog, I think the AC changes are much more significant than the uncapped dex effect on EV 11:21:11 -!- raydarken has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:21:35 by: both are mentioned? 11:21:54 by: I thought that the high EV is crucial, but I may be missing a lot here. 11:22:29 I think EV has barely changed, just been slighlty improved, while AC has been nerfed heavily 11:22:44 i don't know about that 11:22:44 doy: You have 5 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:22:48 that's how I understand it at least 11:23:06 the uncapped ev means that it's a lot easier to get ev of 60+ 11:23:10 and the uncapped Dex-EV thing seems to be acknowledged as a bug to be fixed for 0.7 for some reason 11:23:11 especially with chei 11:23:26 and that's just a ridiculous amount of ev 11:23:58 maybe what I'm thinking of is what the changes were meant to achieve, and not what they did achieve? 11:24:00 by: if you want to spend more lines in the changelog for the changes, sure, go ahead 11:24:26 by: yeah, i mean, it's worth spending some time playtesting to see how big the effect actually is 11:24:39 but i think it ended up being an overall buff to ev players 11:24:57 and ev players didn't particularly need a buff in the first place 11:25:13 !messages 11:25:13 (1/5) due said (7h 54m 17s ago): I think that's it for troves! :D 11:25:16 !messages 11:25:16 (1/4) by said (7h 16m 10s ago): 03833ec6 should go in 0.6 (fixes unlinked item bug; not sure what effects that has precisely in non-debug builds) 11:25:19 !messages 11:25:19 (1/3) by said (6h 45m 5s ago): I suggest adding 6b7ee2f4 to 0.6: "18 explode elf darts (runed)" in quiver or "20 steel runed bolts" on ground sound quite buggy 11:26:07 doy: I won't be offended if you decide against, just ran into this again while playing earlier 11:26:17 !messages 11:26:17 (1/2) due said (6h 27m 16s ago): Commits that have hopefully fixed troves: 648f61d6, 290976fc, 7a32533654, 5a8760735ff52. 11:26:20 !messages 11:26:20 (1/1) by said (4h 29m 20s ago): Sorry for the long list, but I think a408941b, 77402ada should also go in (lack of colour feels like a regression); not sure if 44b9f748 is required 11:26:30 i'll look over that stuff tonight or tomorrow 11:26:31 (: 11:27:49 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: hurry!] 11:33:30 -!- ais523 is now known as scarf 11:35:31 -!- scarf is now known as ais523 11:36:58 03by * r826d9cc73289 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: changelog: Correct some inaccurate entries. 11:37:00 03by * rf048d37e9daa 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: changelog: Collect major bug fixes. 11:37:01 03by * re9e0830037eb 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: changelog: Add monsters sleeping off-level. 11:39:06 argh, once you need dpeg and he's not around :( 11:39:36 Shouldn't have mentioned cats 11:39:48 You know how cats affect him 11:40:48 I didn't connect cats with him, I really have two cats, I hav PIXS! 11:41:11 Let's see links to these pics 11:42:02 http://bhaak.dyndns.org/misc/pets.html 11:42:42 although one of that died *sniff* and another one has been adopted by us. But no pictures of the new cat are online 11:43:50 bhaak: Cute! 11:44:05 I was going to accuse you of having a dog and a cat instead of two cats for a moment though 11:44:27 That third picture is confusing 11:44:35 :) 11:44:50 that's the dog with his sisters and brothers 11:45:32 All those still around?! 11:46:30 not with us, we know the human mother of the dog, so we know him since the day he was born 11:50:01 -!- karmatic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:57:04 -!- karmatic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:08:06 trying to build 0.6 tiles under Xcode. there are missing files under rltiles, but when I git pull it says I'm up to date. halp? 12:08:22 -!- belverk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:09:16 I can't build tiles version of stone soup from git for last 2 weeks. Curses version and release sources compiles without problems. Is it normal? 12:09:17 murphy_slaw: What are the missing files? 12:09:40 belverk: What OS? 12:09:47 tiledef-dngn.cc, tiledef-gui.cc 12:10:03 tiledef-main.cc, tiledef-player.cc 12:10:08 and the corresponding header files 12:10:17 OSX 10.5 12:10:24 Linux 12:10:55 Hm, the tiledef files are supposed to be generated by the rltiles build 12:11:11 bhaak: you've been stealing Crawl interface features for Un? 12:11:14 belverk: What are the error messages you get when the build fails? 12:11:24 godabil.cc:1202: error: ‘TILE_SPORE_OVERLAY’ was not declared in this scope 12:11:35 belverk: master branch or 0.6 branch? 12:11:47 murphy_slaw too 12:12:19 0.6 branch 12:12:25 Does master build 12:12:33 yeah, lots of "not declared in scope" 12:12:35 ais523: claiming that they had them first doesn't make it stealing! 12:12:44 well, OK 12:12:55 and complaints about the missing tiledef files 12:12:57 * bhaak whistles innocently and hopes no one finds the other ones 12:13:00 (and I note that NetHack had travel first, and its interface for it is a lot less clunky than Crawl's) 12:13:13 ais523: less clunky? 12:13:14 (although Crawl's implementation works better) 12:13:25 ais523: the interface is the same 12:13:29 doy: because of the whole map not being visible in advance on Crawl 12:13:33 crawl's travel patch WAS originaly nethack's code 12:13:34 so it takes multiple screen redraws 12:13:39 well, yeah, i guess 12:13:45 that's not really something fixable though 12:13:53 agreed 12:13:55 and you can travel to things in los without going to the full level map 12:14:01 Crawl has the x/X distinction, and normally you use x 12:14:09 so X for travel feels weird 12:14:27 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:14:29 you can travel with x if you want to 12:14:33 just not very far 12:14:34 (: 12:14:55 -!- belverk has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:01 xv is another thing that always feels weird to me in Crawl, by the way 12:15:05 but I'm not sure whyt 12:15:07 *why 12:15:26 ah, i think i see the problem, i don't have the optional X11 sdk installed in my xcode 12:15:35 which is causing SDL to fail to build 12:15:49 which is causing the rltiles build fail 12:16:28 Yay? 12:17:02 I thought the Mac build didn't need X11 any more 12:17:21 But I could be Rong 12:18:12 Mac tile build works a-ok using the makefile 12:18:37 0.6 branch builds fine with mingw cross builds for tiles and non-tiles 12:18:54 -!- belverk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:46 -!- belverk has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:30:26 yeah, command line tiles build works fine, weird 12:31:46 murphy_slaw: I've never built tiles succesfully with Xcode on 10.5 12:31:59 should ask neunon about it 12:41:49 That Tiny Crawl flash game is awesome. 12:42:03 Keskitalo: link? 12:42:18 should (semi-)controlled blink and controlled teleport really all have the same contamination? 12:42:58 http://vacuumflowers.com/temp/tiny_crawl_assemblee 12:43:28 oh that 12:43:36 it was pretty fun, but also pretty easy 12:49:08 How do I exit this villanous vim without saving? 12:49:24 :q! 12:49:27 I've been going through a similar game idea in my head for some time, and now I see that and I'm like "duh, of course it should be like that" 12:49:33 oh, the ! after, not before. 12:51:03 03by * r665e988f49bf 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: changelog: Some more corrections and updates. 12:59:41 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Quit: murphy_slaw] 13:28:51 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:53 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 13:49:32 -!- murphy_slaw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:50:53 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 13:50:56 Howdie 13:52:24 -!- timecircuits has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:08 -!- timecircuits has left ##crawl-dev 13:53:29 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:53:29 -!- murphy_slaw_ is now known as murphy_slaw 14:07:29 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 14:09:29 http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3155652&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=170#post373439636 14:09:35 this seems mildly problematic 14:09:45 are the trove updates on cdo? I have a busted one 14:09:59 -!- Xardas-3 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:08 well, I think anyway 14:10:26 some of them are 14:10:29 what's the bug? 14:10:35 doy: is that comment factually correct? that's the first thing to check 14:10:56 i haven't looked into nemelex formulas since 0.3 14:11:04 someone else should check 14:11:05 (: 14:11:24 it's asking for "a +5, +3 war axe of orc slaying." the is a randart 5,3 war axe of orc slaying in a shop I've bought and it wont accept it 14:11:59 I figured it would, but maybe it just wants a plain war axe 14:14:24 it probably should accept that, and i don't see a fix for that in the recent commits 14:14:28 probably file a bug for it 14:15:43 will do 14:16:38 dpeg gone for a few days? havn't seen him in in a day or so, 's unusual 14:16:59 he was just around a few hours ago 14:17:06 ah, guess my timing is bad 14:17:17 yeah, i haven't noticed him being around less than usual 14:17:47 yar 14:18:50 -!- Xardas-3 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:18:50 -!- MarvinPA has quit [] 14:19:01 Gah, scale code is everywhere 14:19:40 welcome to the crawl codebase 14:23:30 trove will not accept the item it asks for (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1016) by st 14:27:04 -!- Nexos has joined ##crawl-dev 14:29:22 Hi. I see rob has found a fix for a reccurent crashing bug (1014), but it was done the 0.7 development branch. Is it possible to backport this fix on CAO version? 14:30:00 I wouldn't like to wait for 0.7 to be installed on 0.7 to finish my game, if possible 14:30:10 on CAO* 14:32:18 it already was backported to the 0.5 branch, but not sure how long it'll be before that gets released 14:32:59 OK. Thanks 14:33:10 Nexos: you should just not meph cloud the death mage in the big treasure room 14:33:40 well he moves 14:34:09 maybe I could try to buff my rLife and slash it to death 14:34:21 (his or mine) 14:34:35 or you can get him to put on some different armour 14:35:14 like dropping a +0 leather armour near him? won't he attack me first? 14:35:40 not a serious suggestion 14:35:53 maybe my pp warper should have carried around a bunch of leather 14:36:05 but I think you'll be able to kill on death mage without meph cloud? some wands or something? 14:36:07 well the bug fix says he has a -7 leather armour 14:36:23 yeah... I'll buy some wands 14:36:28 Nexos: well, if it's -7, it's likely cursed 14:36:44 good point 14:37:25 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:50 -!- Xardas-3 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:54 hmm, this is almost a fixedart idea; a -7 armour that makes you immune to meph 14:38:15 there's been a few bugfixes backported to 0.5 since 0.5.2 14:38:21 probably useless in the hands of a player, but could add to the survivability of a monster 14:38:29 doy: release 0.5.3 14:38:30 might want to get an 0.5.3 release out, possibly 14:38:32 just to screw with people 14:38:43 OK... it was the cursed -7 leather armour of Zin {Int+2} 14:39:09 Zin doesn't like death mages... 14:42:20 -!- Xardas-3 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:04 we have a number of bugfixes since 0.5.2, if we drop 0.5 on 0.6 release, we should at least release 0.5.3 a minute before 0.6.0 14:43:19 you could release them completely simultaneously 14:43:44 although releasing 0.5.3 beforehand would be a nice way to screw with people, if you're into that sort of thing 14:44:00 how does that screw with anything? 14:44:21 everyone waiting on the announcement of 0.6, and they get 0.5.3 instead 14:44:28 i think releasing 0.5.3 and 0.6.0 at the same time would be the easiest 14:46:13 ah wait, the 0.5 fix is needed to fix a broken game? Well, does rax pull fixes from git, or does she wait for point releases? 14:46:36 kilobyte: well, not anymore 14:46:53 because of being busy, right? 14:47:04 no, i mean the game's not broken anymore 14:47:42 but yeah, rax is kinda swamped at the moment, from what i've heard 14:48:08 but i figure doing both upgrades at once would be easier 14:49:34 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:51:22 @?iron devil 14:51:22 iron devil (103) | Speed: 8 | HD: 8 | Health: 24-64 | AC/EV: 16/8 | Damage: 14, 14 | Flags: 05demonic, evil | Res: 06magic(64), 05hellfire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 322. 14:51:28 ??iron devil 14:51:28 iron devil[1/1]: This monster is dangerous but slow. Run away (unless you're a naga). Do not panic; panicking at the sight of a slow melee monster reflects badly on your intelligence. It can't fly, so if it's across some lava or something, carry on. 14:57:45 -!- Nexos has left ##crawl-dev 14:59:22 a part of Elyvilon's wrath (blocking attacks) applies even if you worship a non-evil god. This can be avoided if you dump her by switching to Zin or TSO first. 14:59:49 should I make blocking attacks apply only against evil gods, or would you have a more elaborate fix on mind? 15:01:04 kilobyte: doing that's a bit risky in the first place, because now you have two gods angry rather than one, even if neither does anything 15:01:32 hmm, or maybe not; does Ely get angry if you switch to Zin, then abandon him? 15:02:18 Ely not only doesn't get angry, but even transfers 45 of piety to Zin 15:02:45 perhaps the good gods should have some sort of "joint wrath" 15:02:52 and Zin's wrath does nothing unless you worship evil 15:03:13 so does TSO's wrath, and most of Ely's 15:03:29 it would be flavourful if you abandoned Ely and switched to Trog, and all of a sudden you have TSO, Ely, and Zin all hating you (to a lesser extent, so as to keep things balanced) 15:03:41 Trog isn't evil 15:03:49 otherwise, if you want to abandon good for evil, you can choose which set of god wrath to take 15:03:52 kilobyte: ah; make it Lugonu then 15:05:40 right, but that still leaves open the case of Ely blocking attacks of Trog's worshippers unless you go through Zin/TSO 15:06:06 yep, and that is a bug 15:07:04 -!- Xardas-3 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:08:42 03kilobyte * r1c1496b6c03e 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Stop Evilyon from blocking attacks of neutral people, it's trivially avoidable 15:08:55 evilyon, heh 15:09:19 all Crawl's good gods are hypocrites 15:09:29 although that's a great typo 15:18:06 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:30 03kilobyte * r4f38d8b6c6b3 10/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc: No cursed randarts of holy wrath, please. [Mantis 948] 15:34:58 03kilobyte * r445cdf802963 10/crawl-ref/settings/autopickup_exceptions.txt: Don't autopickup extra rings of TC. 15:40:02 -!- murphy_slaw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:43:40 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:43:41 -!- murphy_slaw_ is now known as murphy_slaw 15:51:54 03by * rcd8cfe106d84 10/crawl-ref/source/output.cc: Move god piety *'s into separate function. 15:51:55 03by * r77e9e8b943b5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (output.cc religion.cc): In wizard mode, display actual piety in % screen. 15:51:57 03by * rd7aa9de294d1 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Formatting. 15:52:00 03by * rccd969b33364 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godabil.cc godabil.h religion.cc): Move Jiyva jelly paralysis into separate function. 15:52:00 03by * r39f01ead85e5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc godabil.cc godabil.h godprayer.cc religion.cc): Rename jiyva_grant_jelly() to jiyva_accepts_prayer(). 15:52:02 03by * r4c29ac8dbcab 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godgift.cc godgift.h makefile.obj mon-act.cc religion.cc): Make Jiyva mutations actual god gifts. 15:52:04 03by * r38466ab32e0b 10/crawl-ref/source/godprayer.cc: Increase Jiyva piety gain. 15:55:15 -!- Xardas-3 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.0.17/2010021501]] 16:00:37 ??blazing lamp 16:00:37 lamp[1/1]: Wield and evoke to summon fire elementals. Use lava (or, much more availably: conjured flame) as a source. Will be friendly fire_magic times out of 10, thus guaranteed friendly at 10. 16:00:49 that's overpowered right? 16:01:45 @??fire elemental 16:01:45 fire elemental (05E) | Speed: 13 | HD: 6 | Health: 18-48 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Damage: 504(fire) | Flags: 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 10elec++, 03poison | Vul: 12cold | XP: 195. 16:01:47 @??earth elemental 16:01:47 earth elemental (07E) | Speed: 6 | HD: 6 | Health: 30-60 | AC/EV: 14/4 | Damage: 40 | Flags: 11non-living | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++ | XP: 84. 16:01:50 oh 16:01:59 5, seriously 16:02:04 well, 5(fire) 16:02:16 is that just flaming brand? 16:02:20 ice beasts are 5(cold), so comparable damage 16:02:24 to that 16:02:24 oh ok 16:02:29 mirror to ice beasts then 16:02:32 @??ice beast 16:02:32 ice beast (16I) | Speed: 10 (swim: 110%) | HD: 5 | Health: 15-40 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Damage: 512(cold) | Flags: amphibious | Res: 06magic(20), 12cold+++, 03poison, asphyx | Vul: 04fire | XP: 129. 16:16:41 03j-p-e-g * rc04506a0fa65 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h misc.cc mon-act.cc spells4.cc tutorial.cc): Add a tutorial trigger for being silenced. 16:16:42 03j-p-e-g * r9238db5720bf 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Use minmay's tiles for viper and anaconda. 16:16:43 03j-p-e-g * rca41668fad62 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-mon/animals/black_mamba.png: Make the black mamba tile a bit lighter to make it more visible. 16:20:58 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:26 03by * r141cc14dc94d 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-movetarget.cc: Fix Jiyva slime targets. 16:24:28 03by * r8f910f25b3bd 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Jiyva gets full piety gain during gift timeout. 16:25:14 doy: done for now with jiyva piety -- I hope it's now reasonable 16:25:23 okay 16:25:46 it's hard to test without playing a real game unfortunately 16:25:51 yeah 16:34:06 -!- TGW has left ##crawl-dev 16:38:26 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 16:38:53 Murder, slaughter, execution! 16:40:32 !tell Napkin Is there a reason why the Divinations blog entry does not feature under News? 16:40:32 dpeg: OK, I'll let Napkin know. 16:40:54 okay, today I'll improve the Interface wiki page 16:41:11 ...and write a nice monologue about it 16:41:16 dpeg: because it's not news 16:41:25 huh, I am not alone 16:41:28 it's listed under the 'dev blog' section 16:41:29 Hi, doy 16:41:46 !tell Napkin Doy explained to me -- don't worry. :) 16:41:46 dpeg: OK, I'll let Napkin know. 16:42:36 !seen Keskitalo 16:42:36 I last saw Keskitalo at Fri Mar 5 18:49:27 2010 UTC (3h 53m 9s ago) saying Ive been going through a similar game idea in my head for some time, and now I see that and Im like "duh, of course it should be like that" on ##crawl-dev. 16:42:48 damn, gotta unignore Commander Henzell 16:43:02 !seen Keskitalo 16:43:02 I last saw Keskitalo at Fri Mar 5 18:49:27 2010 UTC (3h 53m 35s ago) saying Ive been going through a similar game idea in my head for some time, and now I see that and Im like "duh, of course it should be like that" on ##crawl-dev. 16:43:49 !tell Keskitalo Is anybody actually up to coding the new selection screen? This should go hand in hand with the new starting screen, which seems to be of interest to Johanna. What about the UP team? 16:43:50 dpeg: OK, I'll let Keskitalo know. 16:48:58 morn 16:49:10 due: Hallo! 16:49:32 hi! 16:49:36 it'a few minutes to midnight, to morn is not yet appropriate 16:49:51 It's always morning somewhere. 16:49:58 excuse poor typing and grammar, please 16:50:31 :) 16:51:19 doy: Are my recent changes to troves live on CDO? 16:51:32 03j-p-e-g * rbef3dcd5bcd1 10/crawl-ref/source/ (cmd-keys.h cmd-name.h enum.h main.cc): Nuke CMD_TOGGLE_SPELL_DISPLAY, made obsolete by the display tabs. 16:53:10 due: if by 'recent' you mean 'in the past 12 hours or so', then no 16:53:43 due: ah, so the latest trove BR may already be obsolete? 16:53:56 dpeg: Yes, my fingers, toes, arms, legs, eyes and heart are crossed :) 16:53:59 i didn't see anything in the recent commits that looked like it addressed that bug report 16:54:02 but shrug 16:54:12 didn't look that closely 16:54:12 (: 16:54:49 I'm actually just testing it now anyway 16:54:50 ok, onwards to interface page 16:55:05 It's possible that artefact weapons aren't functioning properly. 16:55:08 At least in shops. 17:02:07 Morning! 17:02:15 moin! 17:02:15 Napkin: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 17:02:22 ssh! 17:02:55 It's morning? 17:04:11 due: five minutes past midnight here 17:04:24 Napkin: Hi! Two of them are pointless, don't be afraid. 17:04:26 Ah :) 17:04:33 :D 17:10:48 The X map does not show clouds anymore? 17:11:15 nope 17:15:10 nope = yes? 17:16:05 Yes, it does not show clouds. 17:16:51 thanks :) 17:21:19 -!- timecircuits has joined ##crawl-dev 17:21:26 -!- timecircuits has left ##crawl-dev 17:21:59 Radical idea time: what do you think about swapping the glyphs { (water, lava) and ~ (disturbance) ? 17:22:40 -!- by has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:23:02 hmm, perhaps 17:23:05 Didn't someone want ~ for clouds? 17:23:06 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:23:15 could remove some of the confusion between { and } if { was less common 17:23:42 Would make reading Abyss a hell of a lot easier on the eyes. 17:25:01 It's designed to be easy on the eyes? ;) 17:26:25 Being the plane of chaos, probably not. Yet still! 17:32:02 03due * rf99b83d3b38b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/wizlab.des: Fix #1014: Lua error on wizlab_demon. 17:32:28 Oh bah, it was 1013, not 1014. 17:32:59 Oh well. 17:33:52 dpeg: Support. 17:35:41 Me too, also. 17:38:01 oh, I am surprised 17:38:13 I have prepared a bunch of reasons for why that'd be good :) 17:38:53 one of them is that . (floor) is a tiny, unobtrusive glyph, and so is ~ (rather than {) 17:39:08 this is important for monsters on water 17:39:13 another one is that ~ actually looks like a wave 17:39:22 But I am preaching to the converted :) 17:39:44 or preaching to the choir? (I am never sure with metaphors in English.) 17:40:01 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:15 you are only talking about ascii charset, right? 17:40:39 [I've heard both phrases.] 17:40:44 morning all 17:41:18 do unicode and ascii have to use the same glyphs? 17:41:21 g'morning 17:41:32 Converted works. 17:42:39 Napkin: yes, of course. 17:42:47 pity.. 17:42:56 double ~ looks so awesome as water 17:43:21 How can I talk about tiles? A blind man lecturing about paintings? 17:43:40 no, nono, not talking about tiles 17:43:49 rather about unicode & ascii 17:45:35 ah, I see 17:45:47 well, we have to set an ASCII default 17:45:55 everything is nicer in unicode :) 17:46:09 -!- karmatic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46:09 like - the default unicode trees.. very nice :) 17:46:33 «»¢“æßð@³¼đ¶ß½¬ħĸłþ─· 17:47:12 Did we change the low MP warning threshold recently? 17:48:04 dpeg: we changed the low hp warning threshold recently 17:48:21 Napkin: unicode shouldn't use different ascii glyphs than ascii does 17:48:28 doy: ah, thanks 17:48:34 but using different unicode glyphs is fine 17:48:43 I take it that "reduce message spam when targeting" is done with? 17:49:06 i'd say yeah 17:49:27 don't get that, doy 17:49:38 Napkin: the double ~ for water is fine 17:49:44 because the double ~ isn't an ascii glyph 17:49:50 Is [back]tick available as a glyph? Might look nicer in a sea of ~ than { for a submerged. 17:49:54 so unicode overriding that is okay 17:50:29 (And kind of like a dorsal fin sticking out of the water) 17:51:00 ~~\~~~ would look nicer, I think 17:51:02 more visible 17:51:22 \ is already 'portal' though 17:51:50 portals are almost never found in bodies of water 17:51:56 except for that one bazaar entry 17:52:34 okay, I will propose { --> ~ on Mantis 17:52:58 sorear: but there's no inherent reason for that 17:53:05 so it would still be confusing 17:57:34 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:23 -!- LoginError has joined ##crawl-dev 18:01:34 greetings crawldevs, is anyone around right now? 18:02:15 I am! 18:02:21 or did you mean a dev 18:02:41 devs, or at least someone who knows a bit about the source 18:03:22 * due puts hand up. 18:03:28 You'd have more luck if you asked your question 18:03:31 There are a lot of people available, so just ask, not ask to ask. 18:03:45 i'm wanting to mess with the scroll of random uselessness, but i can't seem to figure out which file random_uselessness() is actually defined it 18:03:50 *in 18:04:42 effects.cc 18:05:06 awesome, thanks 18:06:28 interface wiki overhauled 18:06:35 now to add all the new stuff 18:13:24 03due * racdab2900886 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/trove.des: Fix artefacts in shops using base item instead (Troves, #1016). 18:14:23 item 1000 is disappointing 18:14:45 hurry with 2500 then, TGW 18:14:51 doy: *now* fixed. 18:15:57 someone introduce 1499 bugs real quick 18:16:00 No. 18:16:00 and then a really impressive one 18:16:04 ok 18:17:02 Like being able to apport items rom shop inventories? 18:30:32 03due * r0684198817d7 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/wizlab.des: Fix typo in Zonguldrok gravestone (#1009). 18:32:10 -!- LoginError has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729225027]] 18:32:21 All D:1 stairs will lead directly to Zot 5. Even the up stairs. 18:32:31 Where? 18:32:39 impressive bugs 18:32:44 Oh. :) 18:33:57 Or better yet, only the up stairs. Discovered on the first would-be win of the version 18:35:50 @??wraith 18:35:50 wraith (16W) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 18-48 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Damage: 1313(drain) | Flags: 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(56), 02cold, 03poison | XP: 208. 18:36:03 @??insubstantial wisp 18:36:03 insubstantial wisp (15v) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 6-18 | AC/EV: 20/20 | Damage: 1206(blink) | Flags: 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++ | XP: 137. 18:39:00 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:43:51 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:47 Okay, I was right, ranged fighters are broken with mislea. 18:47:18 But only missile,s it seems, as spells are fine. 18:49:50 -!- karmatic has joined ##crawl-dev 18:57:42 -!- permagreen has joined ##crawl-dev 18:57:59 I'm sure it's a known problem but my MP bar often visually shows half full even when it's full 18:58:08 CDO .6 18:59:33 Well maybe not? what's up with the light blue / dark blue 19:01:42 karmatic: the different colors is a visual indication of how much you lost/gained the last time it changed 19:01:55 doy okay that makes sense 19:19:21 due: wizlab alert! 19:20:39 I think wizlabs should be announced in -dev 19:20:43 or, in PM to due 19:24:12 someone should add miasma cloud to the necromancer spells 19:24:50 It wouldn't be too hard to configure some irc clients [irssi] to alert you if a regexp matches. 19:31:00 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:44:39 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 19:52:57 new Holy Word patch ready, if anyone feels like checking and committing: http://www.it-is-law.com/dump/DCSS/0012-Make-Holy-Word-useful-more-damage-paralysis-hits-evil.patch 19:54:28 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:56:52 -!- syllogism has quit [] 19:57:51 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 20:03:56 I think all Gretell stuff should be announced here 20:04:02 well, all -svn 20:04:17 -!- TGW has left ##crawl-dev 20:04:22 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 20:04:27 I disagree 20:12:51 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:25:37 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Quit: murphy_slaw] 20:39:03 Suggestion: Sprint deaths should not display unless the player has been playing for at least 30 seconds. 20:46:23 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 20:50:14 there aren't any plans to change demigod, are there? 20:50:21 there are tons of them 20:50:43 I mean plans that might get implemented 20:51:16 What if you win in 30 seconds? 20:51:43 demigods are currently perfect and people should accept that a balanced, unique race is there to be balanced and unique 20:51:45 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 20:52:23 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 20:53:07 I don't think you can win sprint in 30 seconds 20:53:57 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 20:54:31 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Client Quit] 20:55:18 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 21:01:03 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:46 03due * r51b577e9f498 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Fix Mislead not reporting correct monsters on ranged deaths (#1012). 21:01:51 !tell doy 51b577e fixes the mislead "shot by a kobold" that should've been a centaur warrior. 21:01:51 due: OK, I'll let doy know. 21:02:07 if someone wins sprint in 30 seconds, gretell should throw them a party 21:05:17 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 21:11:21 !tell dpeg Email sent, included Eino and Neil also. 21:11:22 due: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 21:23:21 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:30:54 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 21:44:22 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 21:48:28 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 21:49:20 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 22:01:38 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:05:47 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 22:23:21 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 22:25:54 -!- pointless_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:33:07 -!- permagreen has quit [Quit: Welcome to the real world] 22:35:12 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:51:27 this trapdoor spider is in a rock wall 22:51:35 does someone want my save? 22:51:50 or a BR? 22:53:04 yes to both, please 22:53:07 On CDO? 22:53:10 @whereis TGW 22:53:10 TGW the Scorcher (L16 KoFE), a worshipper of Vehumet, saved on D:13 on 2010-03-06 after 48450 turns. 22:53:32 Char "TGW" in fbc9110. Backing up: successful. 22:53:32 - http://crawl.develz.org/saves/TGW-fbc9110-100306-0553.tar.bz2 22:53:35 stick that in the report 22:53:39 I nap. 22:58:36 so that's my save? 22:58:41 I could download that and have my save? 23:00:40 Trapdoor spider in rock wall (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1017) by TGW 23:09:54 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:12:52 -!- TGW has left ##crawl-dev 23:14:22 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 23:25:54 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]