00:06:10 hmmm, master tiles doesn't build for me 00:06:22 tilesdl.cc: In function ‘int tile_known_brand(item_def)’: 00:06:22 tilesdl.cc:1408: error: ‘SPMSL_ELECTRIC’ was not declared in this scope 00:08:09 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:20 :( 00:08:28 not again 00:10:50 oh, oops, that was me 00:10:52 never mind 00:10:52 (: 00:16:45 !tell napkin the note on http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/ about paths with umlauts being a problem is no longer true with the latest version 00:16:48 bah 00:16:56 doesn't someone here have cao shell access? 00:19:50 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:23:56 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 00:24:24 !tell napkin the note on http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/ about paths with umlauts being a problem is no longer true with the latest version 00:24:24 doy: OK, I'll let napkin know. 00:24:50 03doy * r7f5503e7579d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (itemprop-enum.h tilesdl.cc): fix tiles compile 00:24:50 03doy * r7c2cae61f9ae 10/crawl-ref/CREDITS.txt: also mention darshan and erik specially in CREDITS 00:24:58 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:14 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 00:26:42 Brrr 00:26:52 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:48 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 00:27:58 !coffee 00:27:59 * Henzell hands greensnark a barrel of black coffee, brewed by Cerebov. 00:28:45 Henzell successfully basicbotted. 00:28:49 sweet 00:29:39 03doy 07stone_soup-0.6 * r191de1a2f559 10/crawl-ref/CREDITS.txt: also mention darshan and erik specially in CREDITS 00:29:48 also, with these recent tiles optimizations, tiles is actually able to be run for me 00:29:58 not quite a playable speed, but definitely a testable speed 00:31:13 Oh hey, I got a bullet point in CREDITS :P 00:37:44 (: 00:39:26 nice day :) 00:39:26 Napkin: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 00:39:28 moin! 00:39:39 *nice, doy :) 00:41:13 Napkin: i also fixed some issues with sprint, so updating would be nice(: 00:43:42 -!- raydarken has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:43:47 the order of the -sprint parameter doesn't matter, right? 00:45:23 nope 00:45:28 great :) 00:45:42 update will take a while - need to add update scripts for it 00:46:44 "a while" ~~ later today when i'm at work 00:46:50 (: 00:48:04 :) 00:48:21 + /* XXX: hmmm, something better here? */ 00:48:21 + score_version += "-sprint.1"; 00:48:39 sure, what ever you guys see fit - just let me know, so we can adjust Gretell 00:49:45 Napkin: the other thing that i wasn't sure how it would affect you is that i made it keep separate high score files for normal and sprint 00:50:00 sprint uses -sprint 00:50:03 as the file name 00:50:25 milestone and logfile too? 00:50:30 nope 00:50:43 the logfile is searchable by lv anyway 00:50:48 so that's not an issue 00:50:55 score means that I just need to adjust the http link 00:50:55 didn't look into milestone stuff though 00:51:21 in case those are pulled already 00:51:30 http link 00:51:31 ? 00:52:07 yes, henzell/akrasiax pulls "wget -c"s every score file 00:52:17 maybe greensnark did that for sprint already too 00:52:46 irgs.. too early :-$ 00:52:46 i thought it just did that for logfiles 00:52:56 why would it need to do that for score files? 00:52:58 Henzell gets logs and milestones 00:53:11 so I should remove those http links for score? 00:53:26 Napkin: Yes, assuming nobody else uses them 00:53:44 oh.. i was wrong - there is no http link 00:53:47 :) 00:53:50 (: 00:54:13 i'll keep the names for the sprint files though - ok, greensnarking? 00:54:59 It's fine either way :) 00:55:26 hmm.. should I create an update-able environment for sprint like for master? 00:55:30 03doy * red50cd629095 10/crawl-ref/source/tutorial.cc: make tutorial games use the tutorial game type (this does nothing yet) 00:55:31 But if you're merging them into the main logfiles, do leave the old files around in case we need to rebuild the Henzell db 00:56:52 greensnark: one thing that's potentially a bug is that whenever the hiscore file is rewritten, all entries get updated with whatever the current lv value is 00:56:53 or.. it doesn't really need a separate environment... 00:57:10 but i didn't really feel like looking into it 00:58:22 but that would mean that milestones-svn.txt & milestones-spr.txt point to the same file.. 00:58:54 no, that won't work for now 00:58:57 doy: lv is supposed to mean the format of the xlogfile record more than the game version 00:59:06 v should be unchanged by rewrites 00:59:12 greensnark: ah, okay 00:59:20 I need it separate, since milestones-svn.txt actually contains pre-0.6 at the moment, not master branch 00:59:33 greensnark: so should we be using something else for the "this is a sprint game" marker? 01:00:01 doy: I was thinking of a 'game' field or similar 01:00:05 * Napkin stops thinking out loud 01:00:36 Sticking sprint into lv was a temporary thing so I didn't have to add columns to Henzell's db, but that should also be retained 01:00:48 okay 01:00:49 well 01:01:00 sprint is in the main codebase now, so you can have at it 01:01:00 (: 01:01:08 Rockin :) 01:05:00 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:38 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 01:08:53 -!- zenna has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:13:24 ok, since CDO is running 0.6 as "-svn" at the moment, I need to keep sprint in a separate environment for a while 01:13:44 so i'll keep all files in place, greensnark 01:14:55 Cool 01:16:15 well, not so very ;) 01:16:26 that's quite some work :) 01:16:35 release 0.6 already! :D 01:17:58 getting close! 01:18:15 Cool :) 01:18:48 oh, hmmm... i'm going to sleep now, but someone should update the 0.7 windows binaries, so tiles people can try out sprint 01:19:25 or maybe make a build that's sprint-only or something 01:19:51 since the only way to access sprint currently is through a command line option, and not sure how comfortable windows people are with that 01:21:40 -!- zenna has joined ##crawl-dev 01:22:33 doy: They're not comfortable at all with that :) 01:22:41 They look for something to double-click :P 01:23:18 yeah, just patch crawl_state.type to default to GAME_STATE_SPRINT, should be sufficient 01:23:32 GAME_TYPE_SPRINT, rather 02:13:37 sprint is in master now? what an odd turn of events 02:14:08 feels almost as strange as nethack 3.5 coming out with /* #define SPORKHACK */ in config.h 02:18:27 :-D 02:18:34 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:03 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 02:21:01 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21:29 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 02:21:31 looks like the crawl dev team thinks playing crawl takes too long 02:21:38 * bhaak is in a trolling mood today ;-D 02:24:39 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:25:03 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 02:26:15 Poor henzy-poo. 02:27:30 greensnark: Did you see my message? 02:27:55 I can update the cdo windows 0.7 builds in a few hours. 02:27:58 http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2010/03/column_play_crawlapalooza_part_3.php#more 02:28:00 (Morning also!) 02:28:03 New @play post 02:28:46 greensnark: Link to the blog is broken. :P 02:28:51 due: I seem to have forgotten, remind me? 02:29:04 Keskitalo: ? 02:29:16 greensnark: In the @play post. 02:29:27 Oh that 02:29:39 I thought the link I posted was :P 02:30:15 due: Found it in scrollback, let me check 02:30:33 That's an awesome column, as it neatly demonstrates the bestest and powerfullest stuff about DCSS interface. :] 02:30:40 this article is way shorter than the previous one 02:31:34 Just makes it more concise, and easier to read. :) 02:32:09 due: known_status = known_status && item_type_known(*item) 02:32:35 greensnark: duh 02:32:37 Assuming you want to return true only if the main flags check and item_type_known return true 02:32:52 greensnark: Yes, duh duh. 02:33:02 But if you do that, you should check that item_flags is nonzero 02:33:23 well, yes I don't think a lot of people read the last article completely. from the middle part on everything seemed to blur for me :) 02:33:25 Let me pastebin my suggested change 02:36:53 greensnark: I would appreciate it. 02:37:02 Full recompile in progress :P 02:37:28 delightful 02:39:47 due: http://sprunge.us/NYYA 02:41:34 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:41:44 greensnark: Much saner, thanks. Do you want to commit it? 02:43:25 All yours :) 02:43:33 Since you can actually test it :) 02:51:27 I don't really understand it, to be honest. ;) 02:52:37 Troves? :P 02:52:46 No, you (())s and ||s and stuff. 02:54:36 know_status is set if you're checking type or other ident flags, and the item matches the ident flags (or you weren't checking ident flags) and the item is of known type (or you weren't checking known type). 02:54:58 Ahh 03:19:21 Predefine dungeon (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1001) by Piu 03:25:10 I don't even understand that request. 03:25:41 "make competitions in equal conditions" 03:25:42 I think he's requesting Dungeon Sprint. 03:25:56 s/he 03:26:41 xe wants some sort of tournament mode 03:26:53 * due skedaddle. 03:27:58 Ah, like everyone using the same random seed to generate the same dungeon, then compete how far each gets? 03:28:05 That's an awesome idea. 03:28:06 yepp 03:28:13 You'd only get one shot, of course. 03:29:24 the angband people like to play such competitions (although I think it is more to make variants more known to other angband players as the dungeon is more random in bands) or the civ community is also very fond of those 03:32:32 there's a nethack patch that tries to "tame" the randomness in nethack for that purpose: http://bilious.homelinux.org/?210 03:33:15 :-o 03:51:57 -!- scarf has joined ##crawl-dev 04:07:02 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 04:08:53 hi 04:09:27 hrm, why does this firefox think the ##crawl-dev logs at tozt are "BIN file" 04:09:51 by: they're probably giving an incorrect MIME type 04:10:14 webservers are supposed to state what sort of file a file is; if they're saying something unusual, Firefox will trust them 04:10:26 and "BIN file" implies that it's application/octet-stream when it should probably be text/plain 04:10:36 but wget gets it as text/plain 04:11:24 hmm 04:12:27 elnks also says Content-Type: text/plain 04:13:03 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:25:14 by - it's webserver config 04:25:57 doy is using auto-mime - and it's not too happy checking content of those logs 04:53:27 Napkin: ah; does auto-mime do magic based on client-type? 04:53:56 03Keskitalo * r01e99eced554 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-misc/ (demon_pentagram1.png demon_pentagram2.png): Adjust placement of tier 1 and tier 2 pentagrams to match other tiers. 04:54:10 no, it tries to analyze the file served and send the mime-type to the browser 04:54:45 so wget and links override based on the "log" suffix? 04:54:59 yes, I believe so 04:55:26 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 05:02:33 Windows Tiles-0.7 build updated.. 05:02:36 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 05:03:40 Keskitalo: where is it 05:04:13 ortoslon: Hidden away here: http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/archive.html 05:04:20 scroll down for "Tiles (master/trunk/" 05:11:16 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:11:26 Armageddon! 05:11:36 ortoslon - you sure you want to play 0.7 instead of pre-0.6? 05:11:48 Spartaaadavid! 05:12:00 Napkin: the reason for hide 0.7 is that we get more 0.6 feedback :) 05:12:05 s/fot/to/ 05:12:08 grrr 05:12:10 i know that ;) 05:12:23 Hey dpeg! 05:12:33 playing pre-0.6 now 05:13:35 Keskitalo: hi! 05:13:47 ortoslon: thank you! Release will be very soon, reports of all kinds are welcome. 05:13:53 !seen due 05:13:54 I last saw due at Wed Mar 3 09:26:53 2010 UTC (1h 47m 1s ago) acting out due skedaddle. on ##crawl-dev. 05:15:19 I feel a duty on my shoulders... I really should update the Interface wiki page, and especially all the new ideas there. 05:15:31 -!- scarf has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:16:08 hmmh, crawl -sprint doesn't seem to work for me.. 05:17:22 Keskitalo: I've made my piece with a menu. 05:17:23 Sniff. 05:17:30 peace even, Jesus 05:18:21 dpeg: \o/ 05:18:27 Hugs all around! 05:19:28 -!- timecircuits has joined ##crawl-dev 05:19:38 \o/ 05:20:33 oh - -sprint not working, Keskitalo? I was about to update the CDO installation 05:20:49 could you keep me posted? I will postpone the update then 05:21:11 Keskitalo: I assume that it works like this: in the starting screen, we can still enter the name. Then a blank line, then the menu choices (Tutorial, Sprint, Arena, Help), then another blank line, then saved games. These choices are navigated with up/down keys? 05:21:51 why still keep the name there? 05:21:55 Plus a comment at the bottom: "Enter your name or use the up/down keys to choose a game." 05:22:03 there will be most likely several UI prototypes if we choose to implement that 05:22:08 which you can review and pick the best 05:22:25 Napkin: I want to enter my name and hack away. 05:22:57 doooh.. it would actually be an additional "enter" to hack on - doesn't that sound nice? ;) 05:23:17 dpeg: Yes, that is pretty much what I had in mind. 05:23:18 that will confuse people terribly 05:23:23 Keskitalo, Napkin: do we need a wiki for the menu? 05:23:35 Napkin: some people will always be confused. Those don't count! 05:23:39 * Napkin shuts up and goes back to work * 05:23:43 But what felirx says, will do several options. 05:23:47 not "some", dpeg 05:24:17 huh? should I type in my name and then select sprint? oops, now i pressed enter - i thought the game selection would come next 05:24:20 etc, etc 05:24:39 My approach assumes that DCSS is the main game. 05:24:59 Napkin: Something to consider, hadn't thought of that before (there was no Sprint before :)) 05:25:06 So you have to use the cursor keys if you want something special (Tutorial, Sprint, Arena) etc. 05:25:35 For example, the Arena needs no name. 05:25:54 Arena is an exception, I'd say 05:25:55 Neither does the tutorial, if you think about it. 05:26:06 but tutorial & sprint needs it 05:26:21 people want to give a name ;) 05:26:24 I don't think tutorial really needs it - assuming the tutorial will be the level-based one. 05:26:59 but people want to see their name on the high-score list... to see if they did better this time.. no? 05:27:11 anyways.. 05:27:17 * Napkin shuts up * Not a designer :-P 05:27:34 dpeg: Wiki page in general would probably get ideas from people; we (up-team) don't need it, but can use it once it's there. 05:28:07 Napkin: you don't have to be a designer only a user if the designer confuse up the UI :) 05:28:18 Napkin: The current "tutorial" requires the name, sure. But it can be asked as the last question, as it does now if name is empty. 05:28:34 what about sprint? 05:29:12 why not move the name question to the last position? 05:29:15 Well - you only need arrow keys and enter for the starting menu, right? So any other characters that are inputted, regardless of where the cursor is, could be considered as inputting the name. 05:29:22 Not sure if that looks good, though. 05:30:31 http://www.thenoobcomic.com/ <- ha - reminds me of crawl :D 05:30:39 remove stat death! ;) 05:30:53 Keskitalo: alternative: add a "Play Dungeon Crawl" to the list of choices (so: Crawl, Cawl Tutorial, Sprint, Arena; saved games) and then always one of them highlighted; the bar is on "Play Crawl" to start with. 05:31:03 Napkin: will do for 0.7. 05:31:27 Keskitalo: on a normal GUI application entering text even though the focus is on another GUI element usually is quite confusing. But in a game where the GUI elements are non-standard, it might work 05:32:19 and if you simply press enter (with or without moving the game selector), you will get to enter your name after all choices. 05:32:36 Does anyone know if "crawl -sprint" on the commandline is supposed to launch Sprint? 05:32:59 bhaak: do you know what "unterscheidet Spreu vom Weizen" is in English? 05:33:13 Keskitalo: ./crawl -sprint is what doy said, yes 05:33:44 dpeg: to sort the wheat from the chaff 05:33:53 thanks! 05:33:55 -!- scarf has joined ##crawl-dev 05:33:57 -!- scarf has quit [Changing host] 05:33:57 -!- scarf has joined ##crawl-dev 05:43:19 -!- hotsun has joined ##crawl-dev 05:43:24 Keskitalo - testing in windows? 05:44:04 I had a similar problem with windows crawl that it ignored -score too 05:44:06 and just started the game 05:46:40 -!- phyphor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:46:57 -!- phyphor has joined ##crawl-dev 05:49:25 Napkin: Yes. 05:49:32 -arena works. 05:49:42 does -score show anything? 05:49:58 Nope.. 05:50:58 even in Linux, you need to say where the highscore file is when using -score 05:51:00 for some reason 05:51:03 at least, last time I tried 05:57:35 crawl -score saves/scores or crawl -score saves\scores don't do anything either 05:58:35 is is normal that monsters forget about me as soon as they stop seeing me 05:58:44 -!- hotsun has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet] 06:01:03 you don't have to, scarf, if you gave the correct path during compile-time 06:01:04 Keskitalo: try crawl -scores -scorefile saves\scores 06:01:26 Napkin: hmm, yes 06:01:33 I wonder what I was doing wrong before? 06:01:44 Keskitalo: anyway, it's -scores not -score, which could explain what's going wrong 06:02:08 oops, my mistake, sorry 06:04:30 night all 06:05:06 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:06:54 Mmm, I love how the giant newts now can actually be seen. 06:08:24 scarf: No luck. 06:08:36 hmm 06:10:23 re #956 (iood should destroy closed doors): it's currently handled like disintegration; should both break doors? 06:13:01 Sounds ok to me. Eyes of devastation will probably do that then too, which again sounds ok to me. 06:14:11 definitely; doors are something that theme-wise should disintegrate much easier than rock 06:14:18 same for LRD and Shatter 06:15:03 it may be slightly tricky what to do with breaking the middle of a long gate, I guess that's why it wasn't coded this way in the first place 06:15:53 ah, yes 06:18:47 the other issue is trickier, though (orbs passing above submerged creatures) 06:19:30 it's not always possible to displace the creature, as it can be inside a 1-square pool 06:20:08 and allowing two monsters to share the same square could break a lot of things 06:28:32 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:33:31 -!- Anym has joined ##crawl-dev 06:39:44 Hi 06:40:32 hi 06:42:19 kilobyte: no idea how to do that 06:43:09 Submerging is evil. 06:43:44 due: Hi! 06:43:54 03due * r6c77c474ef7f 10/crawl-ref/source/l_item.cc: Commit Darshan's fix to identified/type checks for dLua items. 06:44:13 due: If you're choosing between Div and Sprint for the blog, I'd say that Sprint is better (new content!). 06:44:40 Hi dpeg! 06:44:44 I'm still working on the list. 06:44:52 I'll do Div first, though, and Sprint can get its own post. 06:51:00 -!- scarf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:51:12 due: Hi! 06:51:21 due: okay, your choice :) 06:51:42 I was suggesting to flip the order because Sprint is all the rage right now. 06:52:08 I meant post Sprint tomorrow, after the play-testing post :) 06:52:22 ah! :) 06:52:22 Or you could post it now? 06:52:26 no no 06:52:29 I probably won't finish the play-testing post tonight. 06:52:29 seriously, can't 06:52:32 no sweat 06:52:59 I've 124 commits still to summarise, hopefully some I can compress. 06:53:33 :) 07:08:14 Whoo, almost working window resizing! \o/ 07:08:59 yay 07:10:41 Cleaning this up might take a while though.. not sure if we want to finish this or move onto something else, like the starting menus and stuff. 07:10:50 (But maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.) 07:12:27 Keskitalo: in general, polishing is better. But everyone starts something new, because that's more fun,. 07:12:40 * due still polishing wizlabs and troves. 07:12:45 And I haven't started anything new recently! 07:12:49 * due has been good. 07:13:11 Only 66 changes to summarise. 07:14:02 !tell doy The problem with bumping major version is that I'll have to compile 0.6 to be able to load a save and check bugs, and then recompile 0.7 to fix it, and then get you to cherry-pick the fix back into 0.6. :/ 07:14:02 due: OK, I'll let doy know. 07:18:45 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 07:20:38 dpeg: That is true. :) 07:21:00 why doesn't jiyva just use the nemelex code for piety gain? 07:21:17 Doesn't he? 07:21:21 no 07:21:35 and it's in mon-act.cc::eat_items... 07:21:50 by: Yeah, that's a little nasty. :) 07:22:01 by: and there is a comment by zipcode that the Nemelex approach (to stacks) is correct. 07:22:26 so I'll try to fix it? 07:24:02 dpeg, Napkin, I forwarded chapayev's sprint post to Marc for posting tonight, I have to sleep now. 07:24:12 Will try and get the next play-testing pos tup (with the div sttuff) for Friday or the weekend. 07:24:25 roger, g'night due :) 07:24:34 Can't keep my eyes open at the minute :) 07:24:36 Keskitalo - are we sure -sprint is working now? 07:24:43 :) 07:25:49 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 07:28:02 Napkin: Seems to for me. 07:28:31 what OS, due? 07:28:40 Eino said windows has trouble 07:29:27 is this a good place to ask about Gretell? I'd love to see the source 07:29:54 I'd like the @? command on our roguelike channel 07:30:47 ??gretell[3] 07:30:47 gretell[3/3]: Code available at http://git.develz.org/?p=gretell.git or git://git.develz.org/gretell.git 07:30:58 oh, great :) 07:31:08 Thanks 07:31:16 also 07:31:17 ??henzell 07:31:18 henzell[1/1]: Linley Henzell is the original creator of Crawl. He is also the ##crawl bot. If you want the source for *this bot*, go here: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/henzell/src/ or git clone http://crawl.akrasiac.org/henzell/src/henzell/.git 07:31:30 you're welcome, have fun 07:31:36 what roguelike, btw? 07:31:43 I'm implementing a bot of my own for fun 07:31:55 Napkin: ubuntu 9.10 or so 07:31:59 okay, gone for real 07:32:18 later, due o/ 07:32:23 by: Running Crawl 0.5.2 trunk and Nethack 3.4.3 on my rl server 07:32:29 resizing crawl is looking to be ugly ;( 07:32:32 hi joosa 07:32:38 hi 07:32:46 ah, cool :) 07:32:55 the server is also a replacement for dgamelaunch I've been working on 07:33:02 what software do you use instead of dgl? 07:33:34 Ah, could it be that I tested your implementation of "rl-server" a while back? 07:33:46 yeah 07:34:02 You can check it out with ssh rl@rl.heh.fi 07:34:05 how is it coming along? 07:34:28 I haven't really touched it last months, been making the bot 07:35:00 nice :) 07:35:13 mind if I clone from you? :) 07:35:15 been learning ruby with it :P 07:35:21 And if you're interested, it's here http://github.com/joosa/ 07:35:33 got it :) 07:36:13 Ah, the server is not complete btw 07:36:28 joosa: for rl bot talk there is #interhack. most nethack bot developer hang out there 07:36:28 it needs my custon dtach to work, I made a readonly mode 07:36:58 bhaak: ok 07:37:39 The rlserver source is quite iffy at places, I have lots of ideas to improve it 07:37:57 never seem ruby code - so don't worry about me ;) 07:38:07 Heh :P 07:38:19 Maybe i'll push the modified dtach source in there as well 07:38:35 joosa: Does that server also have a webpage, so that I could add it to http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?title=Websites#Public_servers 07:38:55 Anym: not a proper page, I'll do one "later" 07:39:14 I'll make a simple info page for it 07:39:26 Since the site looks like http//rl.heh.fi now :P 07:39:41 as you also have nethack on it, you should also add it to http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Public_server 07:40:15 Good idea, the server needs more player ghosts 07:44:04 At the moment the server is running entirely in chroot (including ssh) 07:53:14 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:02:18 -!- scarf has joined ##crawl-dev 08:02:42 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:02:47 joosa, can't you do something with permissions and ownership of its sockets to avoid a need for hacking dtach itself for being readonly? 08:03:15 Zaba: yeah, I guess. It was a bad idea to begin with, but I didn't come up with permissions back then :P 08:03:35 I think that would be nicer 08:03:43 Yes, I agree. 08:03:59 like, run the watching processes as a different user or something 08:04:24 Yeah, needs some work, as it all runs on unprivileged user right now 08:06:12 I think I need to fix it to not depend on the hack before going any more public :) 08:06:38 But other than that the server has been up and running without problems for a year 08:06:52 archer statue looks like silver statue in tiles, why can't i kill it with disintegration :( 08:07:13 Haha, I always wait they run out of arrows 08:07:41 Then they can't harm you 08:09:26 Ah, maybe just a simple bit of script to launch games as a different user 08:10:13 No need to run the whole server root. 08:20:53 Still would need a way to tell the game or screen to redraw... maybe I'll use ttyrec and tail after all. 08:21:31 Ah, iirc screen has some ACL features 08:25:40 -!- scarf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:27:34 03by * r1fcb80f057f9 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Reduce redundancy in bolt::nuke_wall_effect. 08:27:35 03by * ree3283ba2ae8 10/crawl-ref/source/godprayer.cc: Split up godprayer.cc:offer_items a little. 08:27:40 03by * rf2019720b59d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godgift.cc godgift.h makefile.obj mon-act.cc): Move Jiyva mutation action out of mon-act.cc. 08:27:41 03by * rfc393cbc9d51 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files): Merge Jiyva item sacrifice with offer_items(). 08:31:44 -!- scarf has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:53 ttyrec is not such a nice option, joosa 08:32:00 -!- Zaba has quit [*.net *.split] 08:32:00 -!- DrPraetor has quit [*.net *.split] 08:32:01 Nope. 08:32:14 you are using screen - right? 08:32:30 did i understand that correct? 08:32:35 Yes, with dtach a teh readonly layer 08:32:38 as the 08:32:52 So I guess I could use screen's ACLs 08:33:01 nice idea :) 08:36:08 03j-p-e-g * r99b5f209933a 10/crawl-ref/ (docs/key_changes.txt source/tutorial.cc): Update tutorial introduction. 08:36:12 03j-p-e-g * r8c963580c556 10/crawl-ref/source/tutorial.cc: tutorial.cc: Add comment about currently unused "interesting" checks. 08:36:33 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:33 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 08:37:09 well, very nice idea to do it that way, joosa - prevents a lot of trouble you run into with ttyrec/ttyplay 08:37:32 have you planned how to do recordings? 08:37:47 I'm using termrec to record already 08:38:05 so do any command line options work under windows? 08:38:06 doy: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 08:38:10 Initially I did watching the same way dgamelaunch does 08:38:11 !messages 08:38:12 (1/1) due said (1h 24m 9s ago): The problem with bumping major version is that I'll have to compile 0.6 to be able to load a save and check bugs, and then recompile 0.7 to fix it, and then get you to cherry-pick the fix back into 0.6. :/ 08:38:44 But I ran into annoyances and problems so I tried somehting new :) 08:38:53 !tell due well, it was going to happen sooner or later anyway, this seemed like the easiest way to avoid confusion/: 08:38:53 doy: OK, I'll let due know. 08:40:31 I don't remember why I picked termrec instead of ttyrec 08:40:45 maybe some commit will tell me 08:42:27 joosa: termrec produces better recordings than ttyrec does, because it includes size information in the files 08:42:37 ah yes, that was it 08:43:25 Argh, I hate uncommented code 08:43:32 At least it's my own lol 08:45:50 I'll try it here at work, doy - 1s 08:50:07 doy, tiles version accepts -sprint 08:50:45 03by * r92b8fb58c5da 10/crawl-ref/source/godprayer.cc: Modify Jiyva piety gain. 08:51:48 correction: non-tiles works - testing tiles now 08:52:30 -!- by has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:53:20 !tell by Thanks for the Jiyva piety fix. Should I look into it? If so, what and where? 08:53:20 dpeg: OK, I'll let by know. 08:55:06 greensnark: you around? 08:55:53 doy, tiles version works too 08:56:45 Napkin: windows or linux? 08:57:24 windows 08:57:44 that's what you asked for 08:58:04 wonder what Keskitalo's problem is then/: 08:58:28 it would be nice if it would mention somewhere that you are about to start a Sprint game 08:58:47 maybe there, where usually the "ctrl+t for tutorial" shows up? 08:59:13 the hiscore listing has a weird "(D)" behind every entry 09:08:59 yeah, mentioning it being a sprint game would be a good thing 09:09:08 not sure what the (D) is about 09:09:12 hmmm 09:09:15 oh 09:09:24 that's probably supposed to be the place of death 09:09:38 but D is now only one level deep 09:09:59 and so it's triggering code that avoids things like Hell:1 09:10:39 -!- Anym has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 09:10:48 i think it's fine, it differentiates between (Abyss) anyway 09:11:23 is the Abyss in Sprint the same as in normal Crawl? if so, it would seem like an obvious place to grind for exp 09:11:35 it was earlier 09:11:40 syllogism did but said there wasn't a point to it 09:11:53 but now it's no-exp, no-piety, no-items, more exits, and harder monsters 09:12:06 fair enough, and makes sense 09:12:13 so the only reason to go there now is to convert to Lugonu 09:12:25 or to escape 09:12:35 the abyss can be safer than sprint itself, at times 09:12:36 (: 09:14:30 it can be safer than D:1, with a careful enough setup 09:14:33 I know this from experience 09:16:34 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 09:32:32 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:32:46 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:37:20 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 09:38:10 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:47:15 -!- ortoslon has left ##crawl-dev 10:01:15 by: are the FU machines working again? 10:02:17 they were before 10:02:17 by: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:02:24 !messages 10:02:24 (1/1) dpeg said (1h 9m 4s ago): Thanks for the Jiyva piety fix. Should I look into it? If so, what and where? 10:02:33 I cannot log into paste or lobster. 10:02:49 dpeg: yes, please; ideally try a jiyvaite to see how it goes 10:03:19 by: that requires wizmode! 10:03:27 hmm, I can't log into a12 either 10:04:20 the formula is in godprayer.cc:_sacrifice_one_item_noncount 10:05:06 it's a mix of the old Jiyva and Nemelex piety formulas 10:06:01 I think the formula is good, but the numbers (stepdown and div_rand_round denominator) are quite arbitrary 10:09:29 That word gets used a lot 10:10:27 And, on review, has a couple different definitions that are not mutually exclusive, but are perhaps importantly distinct. 10:11:13 "subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion" vs "capricious; unreasonable; unsupported" vs "undetermined; not assigned a specific value" 10:19:39 dpeg: I hope you have more helpful remarks? 10:23:23 hmm, is there any way to play a Jiyvaite in Sprint? 10:23:41 I haven't seen a Jiyva altar 10:23:58 not sure if they're not randomly generated, or if it just makes temple god altars 10:36:46 by: I'll try to say something more useful, yes. 10:39:59 Napkin: you around? 10:40:06 is it a bug if I have two differently coloured wands of flame? 10:40:13 yes 10:40:29 sure, what's up, dpeg? 10:40:49 Napkin: did you get due's mail? 10:40:58 i think so 10:41:02 haven't checked yet 10:41:24 Napkin: I think it's good to at it to the blog, now that Sprint is fresh in everyone's mind. 10:41:38 I cannot read or send mails right now. 10:41:40 I agree 10:41:52 Will get off work soon 10:41:59 Then I'll prepare it 10:42:06 thank you! 10:42:48 :) 10:45:32 Napkin: did you get around to updating sprint yet? 10:45:51 no, not yet 10:46:13 when I had time to, we weren't certain yet that the -sprint parameter works 10:46:20 okay 10:46:24 it will have to wait until this evening or tomorrow morning 10:46:32 no rush, was just curious 10:46:32 (: 10:46:45 will keep you posted :) 10:52:27 dpeg: wand colour is apparently not a bug: appearance was fluorescent, which gives each wand a fixed random colour 10:52:47 by: oh, that's nifty. 10:53:05 of course, there's no way to see it's fluorescent once it's identified 10:53:14 (apart from varying colour) 10:53:52 I assume there's no reason to make \ display the unidentified appearance of each item, like it does in NetHack? 10:54:10 nope 10:54:15 scarf: yes, not sure that's good for anything but idle curiosity. 10:54:21 it's only important in nethack because the appearance has gameplay effects 10:54:25 Much more important would be colouring of the \ output. 10:54:40 the \ output is colored 10:54:43 erm, sorry 10:55:05 Much more important would be shortcuts to jump to sections in \. 10:55:19 yeah, that'd be nice 10:55:24 Colours are needed for Ctrl-F :) 10:55:27 yes 10:55:28 (: 10:58:58 03j-p-e-g * r3565589be720 10/crawl-ref/source/stuff.cc: Set MOUSE_MODE_MORE while waiting for input in yesno(). Fixes #987. 11:13:57 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 11:14:31 Morning everyone 11:14:52 Hi 11:19:39 Started some specific scale facets on the DS Brainstorm, if anyone would care to evaluate them..they're at the bottom, and modled after dpeg's list of 'appropriate' stat changes for scales. 11:19:56 Cryp71c: will comment later. Thanks! 11:20:09 Np, still making additions 11:20:33 On a related note, GDR scale mutations are a no-go, right? 11:21:31 yes 11:21:48 I'd rather have shield mutations. 11:21:59 k, thought that was still the case, wanted to check...and the Tough Skin mutation should be removed altogether, correct? 11:22:08 for DS, yes 11:22:12 Right 11:22:17 not sure if altogether 11:22:36 Well, I think troll's have it innately, which...yeah.. 11:23:13 Hrm, moving to another system, bbl. 11:23:16 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:33:25 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 11:33:34 Muwahaha, I return. 11:47:04 the +2 cloak of the Glacier (worn) {rCorr, Cons, Slow} 11:47:07 yay 11:47:22 by, did it come slow? 11:47:28 erwait, ofc it did.. 11:47:32 can't ponderous randarts 11:47:37 Cryp71c: preservation 11:47:43 no, also oops wrong channel 11:50:39 can you ponderousify boots of running? 11:50:54 no, I think that's verboten 11:51:40 maybe it should just unbrand them 11:51:57 much like blessing a demon blade 11:52:04 I have some lying around that I gave up when switching to che 11:52:38 scarf: no. more flavourful to just not accept them. 11:52:40 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:52:44 I think even if you could ponderify them, you'd still get penance 11:53:02 dpeg: the flavour would be that chei was destroying the awful fastness of such items 11:53:08 it would be much like sacrificing unholy items to TSO 11:53:29 you can't ponderify items with two brands: ponderous and running 11:53:50 aren't all ponderous items randarts anyway? 11:54:01 I take it you can't ponderise randarts, because they're artefacts 11:54:16 did we remove the ponderous armour ego? 11:55:12 scarf, no, ponderous is a brand, not a property of a randart. 11:55:32 If ponderous auto-randart'd an item, it wouldn't be subject to corrosion and such. 11:55:32 Cryp71c: but there's no way to get it except by ponderising, which also randartifies at the same time 11:55:45 unless that changed while I wasn't looking 11:55:47 scarf, no, it doesn't randartify. 11:55:51 platemails (only) can get them randomly; if they do, they'll get a sizeable enchantment plus 11:55:59 It never has? at least that I can recall. 11:56:02 ah, ok, it did once 11:56:19 yeah, plate can get it and usually have between +2 and +8 11:56:24 the item became ponderous and a randart (with its current stats) if you ponderised 11:56:24 ponderousify does make it a randart 11:56:34 doy, does it really? 11:56:44 yes 11:56:49 hence by's cloak 11:57:08 I don't recall that...I guess my memory is failing me. 11:57:21 doy, thought his cloak just *happened* to have slow as a randart property 11:57:28 didn't know he pondererousify'd it 11:57:38 Cryp71c: that's what happens when you ponderousify a cloak of preservation 11:57:41 you can tell it's ponderising, because the names all have Chei flavour 11:57:47 yes 11:57:53 pretty sure rcorr and cons aren't normal randart properties 11:57:57 for armour anyway 11:58:11 doy, yeah I didn't think so, but since it was there I wasn't giong to question it :P 11:58:19 hrm, cool. 11:58:34 Can you ponderous randarts yet? 11:58:41 no 11:58:48 randarts can't be changed at all, apart from cursing and uncursing 11:58:57 and throwing them in lava! 11:59:02 Right, thought there had been some discussion on that front 11:59:07 (I take it Crawl isn't planning to go down the Angband route of artifacts that can't be uncursed ever) 12:00:05 that would be terrible 12:00:20 *yay now you're stuck with this terrible sabre...forever!* 12:00:21 (only two artifacts are permacursed in Angband) 12:00:30 yep, not all of them 12:03:39 -!- scarf has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:40 Cryp71c: you won't be able to ponderousify randarts. That's part of the decisions. 12:12:50 hrm, gotcha. 12:17:02 also because getting randart bonuses on top of the stat and resistance bonuses chei already gives you would just be ridiculous 12:19:39 yes 12:27:10 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:27:56 -!- raydarken has joined ##crawl-dev 12:32:16 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:22 !tell sorear Hey, thinking about getting started on the DS code changes, wanted to check with you to make sure it was alright and that you hadn't already gotten some of it done....or, conversely, if you wanted it done in a particular fashion. 12:36:22 Cryp71c: OK, I'll let sorear know. 12:37:05 Cryp71c: but *which* DS changes? 12:58:36 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:06 dpeg, remove tough skin, implement the mutations you flagged as 'approved', remove blink and tele 13:13:25 Small stuff, I guess, but at least its some progress. 13:14:30 03j-p-e-g * r576a475cf8a2 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (11 files in 2 dirs): Experimentally use ekolis and ahyangyi's tile design for Hive walls. 13:17:58 Cryp71c: oh, all of that is fine! 13:50:13 -!- timecircuits has left ##crawl-dev 14:05:56 Cryp71c: What do you think of "Thin Metallic Scales" [form a Faraday Cage when they fully cover your body] instead of "Insulated Flesh" [could imply rC+]? 14:06:30 marcmagus: I like it! 14:06:38 but you mean rElec? 14:06:51 he means insulated flesh implies erc+ 14:06:51 rc+ 14:07:05 but why? 14:07:17 houses are insulated 14:07:21 dpeg: Yeah, I mean insulated has multiple meanings. Cryp71c's suggestion for rElec was insulated flesh. 14:07:40 in Crawl, insulated = rElec 14:07:43 Also scales feel more ACish to me than flesh. 14:07:57 but I like the thin metallic scales better than "insulated flesh". 14:08:18 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:26 yes but insulated flesh being rc+ rather than rElec makes more sense 14:08:36 hence thin metallic scales would be better 14:08:39 dpeg here? 14:08:41 yes 14:09:08 is the startup menu also the place for comments on character selection? 14:09:15 TGW: no 14:09:24 good thing I asked 14:09:54 TGW: this is only about the very first screen should look like. 14:09:59 yes 14:10:08 comments for character selection should go somewhere else 14:10:16 not sure if there is a wiki already for that 14:11:37 TGW: if you need one, tell me. 14:12:38 it would be nice' 14:17:40 TGW: what name and where? 14:18:03 dpeg: actually hold off on that for a bit, I need to remember what my proposal was 14:18:09 :) 14:18:17 it was about character selection 14:18:22 yes, thanks 14:20:11 always at your service! 14:21:54 oh, yeah, got it 14:22:46 !tell Napkin Mantis e-mail threading no longer works :( 14:22:47 sorear: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 14:22:47 sorear: OK, I'll let Napkin know. 14:23:08 sorear: Hi!# 14:23:52 marcmagus, yeah that sounds good 14:24:11 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:39 So is the concensus something other than 'Insulated Flesh' ? 14:24:49 yes: thin metal scales are awesome 14:25:02 I suggest +1 AC, +1 AC, +1 AC & rElec 14:25:07 k 14:25:10 Sounds good to me 14:25:37 (those AC should not add up: only +1 at level 3) 14:25:44 right :P 14:25:45 I got that 14:25:45 sorear: what do you think? 14:26:00 Cryp71c is willing to code some DS mutations. More 0.7 content <3 14:28:19 TGW: need the wiki page? 14:28:44 sure 14:28:54 TGW: what name and where? :) 14:30:04 dcss:brainstorm:character selection or whatever 14:30:14 spaces make me sad 14:30:35 with that name, it's pretty puzzling you don't get rElec at level 1 14:30:49 so it would have to be renamed 14:31:34 kilobyte, thin metal scales? 14:31:49 In any case, can't give the resistance at evel 1 14:31:53 level* 14:32:24 sorear - explain? 14:32:26 Napkin: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 14:32:32 what client? which messages? 14:33:40 woo, nearly have a clang++ build of Crawl :3 14:35:54 gah, what's the format for formatting a patch? 14:36:30 Cryp71c: what do you want to get? I guess you're talking about "git format-patch HEAD^" 14:36:59 !tell sorear oh? what client do you use? which messages don't thread? 14:37:00 Napkin: OK, I'll let sorear know. 14:37:07 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:37:08 kilobyte, the format I had been using before involved a -1 14:37:17 or perhaps -l (L) 14:37:24 but I can't recall 14:37:39 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:37:40 kilobyte: thin metal scales sounds okay to me 14:37:46 insulated flesh was problematic 14:38:11 dpeg, are scales intended to be a guaranteed mut? 14:38:13 (for DS) 14:38:20 http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:combochoice 14:38:27 dpeg? please read my private messages 14:38:44 Cryp71c: no, I don't think so 14:38:47 !messages 14:38:47 (1/1) Chapayev said (1d 3h 55m 26s ago): i'm glad to hear it about piety gain for exploration for good gods! 14:38:58 Napkin: what did I miss? 14:39:08 dpeg, ok, I didn't think so (obviously because of how they're structured now, that's not the case..but..yeah) 14:40:02 :) 14:40:21 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 14:40:37 dpeg, can I stick coding notes inside the wiki? 14:41:13 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:41:31 Cryp71c: sure, why not? 14:41:51 dpeg, well, since its a branstorming area, I didn't know if that might clutter things up..the DS page is already pretty lengthy 14:42:53 Cryp71c: if you think it's too much, use a new page and link to that 14:48:30 dpeg: No time for IRC right now; leave a note on the wiki and I'll get to it ~tomorrow 14:48:30 sorear: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 14:48:53 Napkin: mutt, two updates on the same ticket 14:50:22 and it previously worked, sorear? 14:50:23 hrm, that's odd. The same scale mutation MUT_BLACK_SCALES is listed as a tier 3 and tier 2 mutation... 14:50:36 because nothing was changed recently.. 14:50:41 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 14:51:33 i think there are two types of black scales mutations, could that be why? 14:54:57 pacified monsters could wield a pick-axe and dig down, leaving a shaft behind 14:56:01 by: where would they get that pickaxe from? :) 14:56:16 neunon or anyone else: has anyone a BSD or MacOS box at hand? I'd want someone to check how tar behaves there. 14:56:29 I've got a FreeBSD machine available. 14:57:37 Specifically, if tar runs with gid games, and a tarball contains a file owned by xxx:games that's mode 2774, will the setgid bit be there upon unpacking with default options? 14:57:54 GNU tar preserves +x but not setgid. 14:58:27 tar preserves setuid and setgid when you are root 14:58:46 (or if you use -p, I think)( 14:58:48 crawl runs as you:games 14:58:50 s/($// 14:59:11 of course, you can still trample other people's saves 15:00:02 dpeg: provided by ely? 15:00:25 by: I see! 15:00:55 by: I don't think that should happen always -- levels would be flooded with shafts. But if you come up with a nice mechanic, sure. 15:01:11 you can trample compiled des and db files too, but we could move them to another dir 15:01:40 the shafts could crumble and collapse immediately 15:01:45 and compile them during build so they're owned by root not the first player to run crawl 15:02:52 being able to mess with .des = not merely messing with other's games, but if you use lua to write to the filesystem, you pwn their accounts the moment they run crawl 15:04:03 (that's just a yet another new one for the pile of not yet fixed vulnerabilities :( ) 15:04:56 seriously, sorear's suggestion to drop multiuser sharing of bones, scores and db gets more and more tempting 15:08:34 kilobyte: whoops, sorry, I was babysitting a compile and missed your messages 15:08:42 kilobyte: I'll check and see what happens with that 15:09:07 kilobyte: do you think that's a worthy 0.7 target? 15:09:29 kilobyte: it doesn't seem to preserve the setgid bit. 15:10:39 neunon: cool, at least that one is not that trivial to exploit 15:11:29 dpeg: I'm thinking 0.6 -- and 0.5. 15:11:37 kilobyte: of course, it will preserve setgid if I extract with '-p' added to the tar parameter list. 15:12:03 kilobyte: I am not familiar with the details. If you think it's important, contact the mailing list. 15:12:45 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/dungeon-sprint-fast-and-furious 15:14:49 Mu_, yeah, but they would have to have 2 different names, and they don't (they're definitely the same mutation) 15:18:34 ah ok 15:19:28 Cryp71c: I did reply. 15:19:50 !tell sorear two sets of scales (MUT_BLACK_SCALES and MUT_METALLIC_SCALES) are listed as tier 3 mutations in _demon_facets[], which seems like a huge waste, since even +10 ac still isn't akin to the other tier 3 mutations. Furthermore, MUT_BLACK_SCALES appears as a tier 2 and tier3 mutation 15:19:51 Cryp71c: OK, I'll let sorear know. 15:19:52 dpeg, reply to what? 15:20:07 ah nvm 15:20:09 I see your comment,t hx 15:20:10 thx* 15:20:26 is there a way to make the wiki use fixed space? 15:20:57 TGW: yes, indent by two spaces 15:20:59 nevermind 15:20:59 like this 15:23:45 Cryp71c: we also need to cut down on the madness of similar/identical scales 15:28:01 dpeg, yeah, that's what I've been trying to do with my new list, but I'd need more things that can be added as bonuses to keep a large pool of possible (but not overlapping) scales. 15:30:13 Cryp71c: the pool is large enough now already, imo 15:30:45 dpeg, you think the list I provided is large enough? Or are you thinking of other scales as well? 15:31:01 There are 10 there, in my list 15:32:55 dpeg, also, we're removing the blink and tele mutations, does that include the tier 3 mutation 'MUT_TELEPORT_AT_WILL' ? 15:34:01 Cryp71c: yes, I thought so. That can be sorted out later. 15:34:21 Ten scale-type mutations is quite good, yes. 15:34:23 dpeg, one last thing for the moment, Fast is also flagged for removal too? 15:34:44 Cryp71c: movement speed? 15:34:45 and if so, is it being removed as a mutation altogether, or just being removed as a DS mutation? 15:34:46 yes 15:34:56 As I said, I would tie it with hooves. 15:35:01 right 15:35:08 but that would still only be speed 1 or 2 15:35:13 right now you can get MUT_FAST and by lvl 3, its speed 3 15:35:16 so you're a DS at spriggan speed 15:35:22 yes, but why :) 15:35:31 dpeg, yes but why what? 15:35:42 Cryp71c: why do we want DS at Sp speed? :) 15:35:54 dpeg, precisely, that's why I thought it was flagged for removal 15:35:58 ??kick 15:35:58 kick[1/2]: An {auxiliary unarmed} attack you can get if you have hooves, talons, or unarmed skill. Naga cannot kick. Damage is 5. Add +3 for talons or +5 for hooves. 15:36:01 (and then hooves will give speed 1 or 2?) 15:36:04 ??headbutt 15:36:04 headbutt[1/1]: An {auxiliary unarmed} attack you can get if you have horns or unarmed skill. Damage is 5 + (horns mutation level * 3). Add +2 for a hard helmet, or +5 for a spiked or horned helmet. 15:36:09 hooves seem too powerful for DS 15:36:20 TGW: why? 15:36:23 if they give speed, that is 15:36:34 lower stealth, loss of boots, some UC damage, speed 1 or 2 15:36:42 TGW, speed 1 or 2 is no big deal 15:36:51 especially with the penalty to stealth it'll give 15:36:52 it sort of is 15:36:53 speed 2 == boots of running 15:37:03 speed 1 == boots of running 15:37:05 by: you're against it? 15:37:07 speed 2 == centaur 15:37:08 just 1 even? 15:37:13 speed 3 == spriggan 15:37:27 Speed has remained in thus far as a t3 mutation, and no one has outcried against it yet 15:37:36 And that's far worse than the proposed hooves mut 15:37:44 Cryp71c: it's very rare :) 15:37:47 hooves is a body slot 15:37:49 I thought running == swiftness == 8, spriggan == 6 15:37:55 by: yep 15:37:59 so probably centaur 7 15:38:00 ?? movement delay 15:38:00 move delay[1/2]: 10 by default. Boots of running lower this by 2. The quickness mutations lower this; level 1 by 2, level 2 by 3, and level 3 by 4. Centaurs start with the second level, Spriggans with the third. The minimum is 6. delay = 100/speed. 15:38:24 hooves should be noisy 15:38:27 I wrote that entry :) 15:38:29 dpeg, yeah I agree 15:38:30 ??move delay[2] 15:38:31 move delay[2/2]: 8 delay (such as with swiftness or boots of running) moves at 12.5 (between an ant and a snake). 7 delay (such as a player centaur) moves around 14.3 (between a jackal and an actual centaur). 6 delay (such as a spriggan or swift flight) moves at 16 and 2/3 (just less than a war dog). 15:39:04 I think speed 1 is appropriate 15:39:05 so running is 2 as I said 15:39:06 for hooves 15:39:15 by: so running is 1 15:40:36 dpeg: it might be better to give them just 1 instead of 2 (i.e., delay 9) 15:42:34 by: fine with me 15:42:43 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:53 Cryp71c: my English might be off, but "padded feet" sound like a swimmer to me. 15:43:06 webbed feet, dpeg? 15:43:10 ah! 15:43:22 that's another good idea 15:43:23 In German we have the Paddel :) 15:43:33 we have paddles 15:43:42 never assume english makes sense 15:43:50 no no, don't worry 15:44:53 morning all 15:44:58 Hi 15:45:04 why does a google search for "webbed toes" return only results for webbed toes in humans? 15:45:09 that's weird and unsettling 15:45:43 If fur is renamed to some sort of scales, the three elemental resist scales could be colorless at level 1 (where they all grant +1 AC), if preserving mystery is desirable there. 15:46:07 marcmagus: true! Add it to the wiki, please 15:46:14 Ok. 15:46:38 but, webbed feet should give varying degrees of affinity for water and disable boots at 3 15:46:40 ~~~~ to sign? 15:46:51 no, press the button 15:46:51 marcmagus: there is a button 15:46:52 rightmost 15:46:55 the right... 15:47:32 Oh, heh, my eye completely glances over editor buttons. 15:50:21 marcmagus: not surprising, 90% of the time, they are useless :P 15:51:18 joseph stalin had webbed feet 15:54:29 Time to revamp the makefile. again. :3 15:55:42 neunon: thanks for that. 15:55:46 And good night! 15:55:50 Night dpeg 15:56:02 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: zzz] 15:57:01 TGW: I like your character selection interface cleanup 15:57:11 :) 16:10:02 -!- by has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:19:36 tiles silently die on fatal errors (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1002) by KiloByte 16:31:36 -!- ortoslon has left ##crawl-dev 16:45:22 -!- Twinge has quit [] 16:46:26 marcmagus, changes made on the scales ideas, fur changed to a scale, all resist-giving scales combined to start as "colorless" and diverge as appropriate at level 2 16:48:41 also added webbed feet idea 16:53:08 :) 17:03:28 Salut 17:03:28 due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:03:33 !messages 17:03:33 (1/1) doy said (8h 24m 39s ago): well, it was going to happen sooner or later anyway, this seemed like the easiest way to avoid confusion/: 17:03:54 doy: I supppose so. 17:06:06 !tell dpeg if we (whoever developers, or just you, if that's the case) can reach a concensus on a difinitive, unopposed list of mutations that are good to be implemented, I'll be happy to build a master "approved" list and any progress currently being made by anyone interested in programming each of the mutations at the top of the DS wiki. 17:06:06 Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 17:06:14 what was the context for that? 17:06:21 !tell dpeg if we can reach a concensus on a difinitive, unopposed list of mutations that are good to be implemented, I'll be happy to build a master "approved" list and any progress currently being made by anyone interested in programming each of the mutations at the top of the DS wiki. 17:06:22 Cryp71c: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 17:08:54 TGW: my message to doy? the major version change makes debugging 0.6 saves a little harder. 17:12:15 !tell dpeg oh, and also..if any such mutations are already present on the DS wiki, feel free to mark them (somehow) and I'll begin the list later tonight or tomorrow. 17:12:15 Cryp71c: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 17:18:21 is there a sewer with alligators yet? 17:19:34 no? I'm disappointed in you 17:22:05 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 17:22:23 re: adam's e-mail about security: I'm in complete agreement 17:24:08 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:26:24 -!- raydarken1 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:28:15 -!- raydarken has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:34:04 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 17:36:12 -!- murphy_slaw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:36:42 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:40:21 -!- murphy_slaw_ has quit [Client Quit] 17:41:03 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:47 it seems like this game should have koalas 17:45:26 Drop bears. 17:46:06 use q for marsupials? 17:46:14 Kangaroos! 17:46:21 We could have a "Down under" branch. 17:46:33 D 17:49:16 Moving on from silly things, time to skedaddle. 18:01:14 TGW, should expand the sewer branch, make a 'Giant Alligator' at an end-vault 18:01:29 Cryp71c: :) 18:01:42 I would be so stoked if someone made a layout for sewer 18:01:53 TGW, ..aren't there already like 3? 18:01:59 ? 18:02:33 there are like 3 different sewer branches possible already..? 18:02:41 there are like 5 18:02:45 I said layouts, not vaults 18:02:59 TGW, I don't follow 18:03:06 layouts are the voodoo used to make levels for normal branches 18:04:01 ahhh 18:04:02 gotcha 18:04:10 I didn't know that they followed a general layout 18:04:17 well, I guess you can tell once you play long enough 18:04:31 there's the T shaped one, the big open ones, the normal ones with rooms and corridors, and such 18:04:38 right 18:05:27 sewer layout would - to me - be 3-4 tiles wide and long, then have little short 1-tile wide corridors (smaller pipes) leading to other major corridors 18:05:38 I'd make one, but IDK anything about layouts 18:11:15 levels are 80x70, right? 18:12:56 !vault river_lethe 18:13:00 Lines pasted to http://paste.scsys.co.uk/40197 18:22:27 -!- permagreen has joined ##crawl-dev 18:34:03 TGW, hrm, ok obviously at the bottom there is the 'template' and the SUBST are substitution rules, I presume? MONS are possible monsters for the level... 18:35:22 what are you looking at right now? 18:36:21 your paste 18:36:47 River_Lethe 18:36:52 yes 18:36:59 you should read leveldesign.txt 18:39:03 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 18:39:17 TGW, where's that at? 18:39:45 docs\develop\levels\syntax.txt 18:43:39 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 18:53:18 TGW, say I design a sewer layout, would there be additional changes in the code for the level builder to use that layout vs the vaults sewer is using right now? 18:53:49 I have no idea 18:54:10 I'm not positive that would work, portals are funky 18:54:22 ask someone smart 18:54:35 the layouts are being outsurced to lua 18:54:53 dat/des/builder 18:58:56 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 19:09:14 ROFL, with new...uncapped EV values, at 60 dex and 27 dodging, this spriggan has 115 EV in standard gear 19:15:41 why do you have 60 dex 19:15:42 sorear: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 19:15:53 sorear: he's doping. 19:32:13 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:32:33 http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:combochoice 19:32:38 can anyone add anything to that? 19:33:16 I feel dirty about putting space in parentheses at the bottom 19:33:20 'eh? What should we be trying to add? 19:33:32 you're just mocking this up or what? 19:35:28 yus 19:36:07 add is probably the wrong word, I'm hoping to condense it 19:37:41 improve upon 19:37:51 yeah 19:42:23 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:44:18 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:45:06 -!- bmh has left ##crawl-dev 19:46:19 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 19:47:00 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 19:49:06 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 19:50:36 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:55:09 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 20:07:00 Twinge, yo, I'm about to be afk, but if you have anything to contribute to DS, I've added new scale facets and such to the bottom of the brainstorming page, I think we're getting the ball moving fairly quickly on the matter. 20:07:11 leave me a message if you need anything 20:07:34 -!- Cryp71c is now known as Cryp71c|Away 20:07:47 Cool. I really have not been involved in the DS discussion, though, so I don't have much to contribute presently 20:07:55 ah, k 20:12:24 -!- timecircuits has joined ##crawl-dev 20:12:26 -!- timecircuits has left ##crawl-dev 20:35:09 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:52:28 I just stabbed a sphinx with a vampire... 20:52:35 You bite the sphinx, and draw her blood! 20:52:48 do sphinxes have blood? 20:53:24 yes 20:53:55 a sphinx is a lion with a human head 20:54:09 (and apparently they're magical for some reason) 20:55:28 -!- Iainuki_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:55:32 yeah spose so, I wasn't sure since they leave no corpse 21:06:49 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:07:15 why not? 21:07:18 :| 21:09:04 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:11:40 hey I was just checking okay 21:28:39 -!- johannh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:34:26 -!- johannh has left ##crawl-dev 21:40:26 Eh, supper dead tonight. 21:40:29 super* 21:41:11 -!- TGW has left ##crawl-dev 21:41:43 Yo. 21:42:04 Enne: Hi! 21:42:10 Howdy, due. 21:42:11 Enne: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 21:42:14 Enne: Apparently there are now other issues with secret doors :( 21:42:21 Yeah, I'm working on that right now. 21:42:24 <3 21:42:33 Thank you so much. My mum's still in hospital and I'm still staying with relatives. 21:42:40 !messages 21:42:40 (1/1) ixtli said (1d 17h 41m 46s ago): When you get a chance, have a look at http://github.com/ixtli/crawl/tree/ipad I'm currently working on moving OpenGL calls to a wrapper, but I think you'll be able to use uiwrapper-sdl.cc/h and cgcontext-sdl.cc/h in their current state. Lemme know what you think :D 21:43:01 No problem, due. :) 21:44:57 !tell ixtli I'll try to take a look at it, maybe this weekend. It'd be good to move that into master sooner rather than later. 21:44:57 Enne: OK, I'll let ixtli know. 21:47:17 * due relaxes. 21:52:59 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:53:37 !tell Napkin I assume either you or Eino updated the template to remove teh reference to the umlaut path issue? I can't find it any more, unless I'm lookinng in the wrong place. 21:53:37 due: OK, I'll let Napkin know. 21:54:08 I fixed the umlaut issue, if that's what you're asking. 21:54:36 Enne: Yes, I saw that! I'm just doing the play-testing post at the minute, and I thought there was a reference to it on the CDO trunk page for windows tiles builds. 21:54:47 But I can't find it in any of the page templates, so I'm guessing someone removed it already. 21:56:50 -!- Iainuki_ has quit [Quit: Iainuki_] 21:57:38 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 22:06:57 Woohoo only ten more commits to summarise. 22:19:20 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 22:29:15 :( so quiet 22:29:58 -!- permagreen has quit [Quit: Welcome to the real world] 22:30:54 due, can you give this door fix a try? 22:31:13 (Er, oops. Commit in just one sec. That was anticlimactic.) 22:31:59 03Enne * r1696ef06816e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (terrain.cc terrain.h tilepick.cc view.cc): [975] Fix secret door issues in tiles. 22:33:54 Moin guys :) 22:33:54 Napkin: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 22:34:15 Howdy, Napkin. :) 22:34:31 yeah, fixed the umlaut-thingy, when doy reminded me that Enne fixed it :) 22:34:42 Hey Enne! :) 22:42:33 -!- Enne has quit [Quit: zzz] 22:42:40 -!- Twinge_ is now known as Twinge 22:53:39 !tell due yeah, fixed the umlaut-thingy, when doy reminded me that Enne fixed it :) 22:53:39 Napkin: OK, I'll let due know. 22:58:40 kilobyte, just change MCHMOD to 6750 and SHARED_FILES_CHMOD_PUBLIC 0644? There's no need remove multi-user.. otherwise you could also just compile all database files during installation. 22:59:48 sounds like breaking a fly on the wheel to remove it. 23:03:02 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 23:07:13 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920]] 23:09:58 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:12:08 my, that is a lovely expression 23:15:45 sorear, wir können auch mit Kanonen auf Spatzen schiessen, but that would confuse people, wouldn't it? :-P 23:18:28 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 23:20:48 anyways, my dictionary supported english isn't the issue ;) Removing multi-user capability, even though there are simple solutions to the permissions problem is :) 23:55:37 !tell Enne Will check it out, thanks; looks much cleaner than my implementation. Poor Tukima's cramped apartment! 23:55:38 due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 23:55:38 due: OK, I'll let Enne know. 23:56:24 !messages 23:56:24 (1/1) Napkin said (1h 2m 45s ago): yeah, fixed the umlaut-thingy, when doy reminded me that Enne fixed it :) 23:56:34 Excellent.