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01:41:27 <Ashenzari> Shapeshifters appear absurdly weak (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=995) by greensnark
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02:00:14 <due> Did we sort out the Pikel thing/
02:00:15 <due> Napkin:?
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02:50:25 <Napkin> Moin due
02:50:30 <Napkin> are you asking me?
02:50:41 <Napkin> I don't sort too much of code ;)
02:50:47 <due> No, apparnelt yit locked CDO up.
02:50:57 <Napkin> oh?
02:51:05 <Napkin> as in?
02:51:16 <due> http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=993
02:51:23 <due> It's Kyrris, though, and it seems a wee bit exaggerated.
02:53:51 <Napkin> lol
02:54:08 <Napkin> yes, he triggered the automated iptables rule
02:54:14 <Napkin> nothing I can do about that ;>
02:54:30 <due> ahahaha nice
02:54:47 <due> when CPU usage peaks you reject new connections?
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03:00:12 <Napkin> nah, I'm saying those are coincidences, due ;)
03:01:33 <due> :)
03:01:36 <due> yeah
03:02:53 <due> erm, bug in sprint
03:02:56 <due> ghouls start with nothing
03:03:16 <Napkin> nothing at all?
03:03:21 <due> leather armour
03:03:30 <Napkin> can they drink potions?
03:03:36 <due> yes
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03:04:06 <Napkin> not sure.. he didn't change anything directly to ghouls, as far as I know
03:04:11 <Napkin> maybe a trunk bug?
03:04:31 <Napkin> dungeon sprint running on CDO is based on master, not pre-0.6
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03:07:47 <due> ah
03:11:28 <Napkin> Data retention laws in Germany just got declared as illegal :D
03:11:30 <Napkin> \o/
03:11:40 <scarf> Germany's normally pretty good about that sort of thing
03:11:41 <Napkin> Every piece of data saved needs to be deleted :D
03:12:06 <Napkin> !coffee
03:12:06 * Henzell hands Napkin a barrel of café au lait, brewed by Ijyb.
03:18:24 <bhaak> wtf? completely canned?
03:18:50 <due> Ooh, really?
03:18:55 <due> Germany's priacy laws fascinate me.
03:19:47 <due> *privacy
03:26:28 <ixtli> Yeah. As far as governance is concerned it appears to me that Germany is most efficient of nearly any country on earth.
03:26:59 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: and with that I disconnect ;-)]
03:29:19 <Napkin> omg, that's a rumor!
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03:34:28 <Textmode> night all
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04:00:54 <ixtli> !tell Enne When you get a chance, have a look at http://github.com/ixtli/crawl/tree/ipad I'm currently working on moving OpenGL calls to a wrapper, but I think you'll be able to use uiwrapper-sdl.cc/h and cgcontext-sdl.cc/h in their current state.  Lemme know what you think :D
04:00:54 <Henzell> ixtli: OK, I'll let Enne know.
04:01:18 <ixtli> by: Napkin: you guys too :D
04:01:26 <ixtli> !seen sorear
04:01:26 <Henzell> I last saw sorear at Tue Mar  2 05:13:12 2010 UTC (4h 48m 14s ago) saying pointless_: that wouldnt be any better - either way you fix old saves but cut off medium new ones, which are currently more common AFAIK on ##crawl-dev.
04:02:27 <Napkin> Oh, I am clueless about code, ixtli :)
04:02:33 <ixtli> XD
04:02:40 <ixtli> 'sok :D
04:03:12 <ixtli> So, someone asked me for my name to put in the credits.  How long do I have to decide if I want it in there? XD
04:03:43 <Madtrixr> til right....NOW! lol j/k
04:03:51 <ixtli> ... *sob*
04:03:59 <ixtli> I'm considering using this handle, so that its harder to link it to my real name, but I dunno.  It seems overly paranoid, and it's not like i've done a good job hiding my real name up until now.
04:04:35 <Madtrixr> I'm completely open about my name.
04:04:45 <Madtrixr> It's somewhat common, I guess that's why.
04:05:59 <scarf> ixtli: you can feel free to be credited under your real name in the credits, because tracing it back to the nick would be tricky anyway
04:06:19 <ixtli> actually that's a good way to think about it.
04:06:30 <ixtli> Yeah, I guess I'm just being silly.  Nm.
04:07:09 <ixtli> The last OSS project I worked on involved reverse engineering, so we were very paranoid, but I guess this doesn't call for such extremes.
04:18:24 <Napkin> far from it, ixtli
04:18:31 <sorear> I don't mind being associated with Crawl
04:18:47 <Napkin> would you mind your future employer to see your involvement with stone soup?
04:18:55 <ixtli> It's not that.
04:19:02 <ixtli> I was involved with the original iphone dev team.
04:19:06 <ixtli> Under this nick.
04:19:09 <ixtli> But that was a long time ago.
04:19:20 <ixtli> Guess it doesn't matter at this point.  If they cared they would have found me.
04:19:36 <sorear> Stone soup is sufficiently *bad* that it might actually look good on a resume
04:19:47 <ixtli> XD
04:19:54 <sorear> anyone who can hack DCSS is a top-tier maintaince programmer
04:20:14 <sorear> able to handle everything your last set of programmers made with ease
04:28:03 <Madtrixr> What's that supposed to mean, sorear?
04:30:16 <sorear> Madtrixr: Being a dev is hard, you could easily spin it as a demonstration of skill
04:30:29 <Madtrixr> I guess.
04:30:30 <sorear> much harder than normal for OSS programs
04:30:59 <Madtrixr> I think coding looks hard as it is, I can't imagine coding that does stuff.
04:31:14 <sorear> even for some non-OSS stuff... don't listen to Kornel, DoomRL is *beautiful* compared to this
04:32:30 <Madtrixr> :D
04:34:55 <Madtrixr> I wouldn't know, code is a giant mess to me.
04:37:17 <Ashenzari> submerge and clouds (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=996) by rob
04:38:02 <ixtli> sorear: I agree.
04:38:19 <ixtli> I think this is under-appreciated by american employers.
04:38:35 <ixtli> Honestly, though.
04:38:50 <ixtli> Crawl isn't bad.
04:38:57 <ixtli> Comparatively.
04:39:03 <Twinge> A lot better than ADOM's code, surely :)
04:39:48 <sorear> I'd put ADOM at around the level of beta26's code quality
04:40:49 * Madtrixr doesn't know how bad that is, but it being a beta, It must be terrible.
04:43:49 <ixtli> I think you can tell a lot about a source base from the quality of it's website.
04:43:52 <ixtli> its*
04:43:59 <ixtli> So.
04:44:00 <ixtli> Agree.
04:44:01 <ixtli> :)
04:45:54 <scarf> what, sourceforge or cdo?
04:46:09 <scarf> also, is it a negative or positive correlation?
04:46:27 <ixtli> Well, that depends on the quality of the site.
04:47:03 <ixtli> Look at the nethack page, our page, the ADOM page.
04:47:10 <Madtrixr> Well, isn't ADOM dormant? as in, no new development?
04:47:21 <scarf> what I mean, is, that Crawl changed website very recently
04:47:25 <scarf> from a rather bad one to a rather good one
04:47:33 <scarf> presumably the code quality didn't change overnight at the same time
04:47:39 <ixtli> scarf: yeah sorry, it's a direct correlation.
04:47:48 <ixtli> scarf: wasn't familiar with negative/positive.
04:47:57 <ixtli> syntactic sugar :D
04:48:18 <Twinge> Madtrixr: Yes; for like a decade now
04:48:19 <ixtli> scarf: It doesn't necessarily mean that the code is /bad/ or /good/.
04:48:35 <scarf> hmm
04:48:39 <Madtrixr> Twinge: Ouch. That is so rough.
04:49:04 <scarf> wow, that's even longer than NetHack
04:49:19 <ixtli> I thought nethack was still in dev.
04:49:21 * ixtli shrug
04:49:34 <scarf> ixtli: in theory
04:49:38 <Madtrixr> It actually is.
04:49:43 <Madtrixr> Apparently.
04:49:48 <scarf> at least, the devteam are apparently still working on it, but they haven't released in so long that they may as well not be
04:49:55 <scarf> you can send bug reports and get replies, but that's about it
04:50:13 <scarf> (and the reply normally is along the lines of "we fixed that but didn't tell anyone")
04:50:18 <Madtrixr> I think now would be a good time to break their policy of secrecy and do SOMETHING.
04:54:05 <Madtrixr> release a beta, make a statement, scratch their ass, SOMETHING.
04:54:39 <Madtrixr> (and when I say make a statement, I mean a progress report, not "we are working on it")
04:56:20 <scarf> even patches would be nice, or bug descriptions more than a sentence long
04:56:32 <Madtrixr> Exactly.
04:57:06 <ixtli> When was .5.2 released?
04:57:36 <jarpiain> !lg * v=0.5.2 1
04:57:41 <Henzell> 1. rob the Digger (L6 OgEE), slain by a gnoll (a +0,+2 spear of reaching) on D:3 on 2009-10-09, with 363 points after 6206 turns and 0:18:03.
04:59:57 <ixtli> Hmm?
05:00:13 <ixtli> 2009-10-09 was the first game on .5.2
05:00:13 <ixtli> ?
05:00:58 <jarpiain> !lg * v=0.5.2 1 x=start,src
05:01:01 <Henzell> 1. [start=2009-10-09;src=cdo] rob the Digger (L6 OgEE), slain by a gnoll (a +0,+2 spear of reaching) on D:3 on 2009-10-09, with 363 points after 6206 turns and 0:18:03.
05:01:36 <Madtrixr> ?
05:06:18 <greensnark> !lg * 0.5.2 !alpha 1
05:06:23 <Henzell> 1. rob the Digger (L6 OgEE), slain by a gnoll (a +0,+2 spear of reaching) on D:3 on 2009-10-09, with 363 points after 6206 turns and 0:18:03.
05:06:52 <Madtrixr> ...
05:11:12 <greensnark> I expect the next NetHack release around the same time as GRRM completes a Song of Ice and Fire :P
05:11:18 <ixtli> lulz
05:13:20 <Madtrixr> Umm...let me guess...<or=infinity?
05:13:50 <kilobyte> and it is named "NetHack Forever"
05:13:56 <Madtrixr> lol
05:14:12 <Madtrixr> It's actuallly being built by 3D realms.
05:15:14 <Spads> greensnark: or when Robert Jordan finally finishes the Wheel of Thyme
05:15:22 <Madtrixr> 3.4.4 will have cutting edge 3D and hot chicks.
05:15:28 <greensnark> Spads: Now there's a metaphor
05:15:37 <Spads> I'm told they just republished book 5 as book 17 and nobody noticed
05:15:40 <greensnark> So you're saying a new team will do the next release?
05:15:55 <greensnark> I heard they were geting someone else to complete the series
05:16:08 <syllogism> the new guy already released a book
05:16:15 <Spads> greensnark: maybe that someone will be able to actually inject some plot
05:16:30 <syllogism> apparently people liked it
05:16:43 * greensnark growls and crosses his arms and tosses his axe away and picks up his hammer.
05:16:57 <greensnark> Brandon Sanderson, right?
05:17:07 <bhaak> I didn't have time to read the whole series, so I just read the zipped version
05:17:19 <greensnark> The 5 line or the 10 line version?
05:17:19 <syllogism> yes
05:17:25 <Spads> it was a good first book is the problem
05:17:33 <greensnark> Yeah, I rather liked the first book
05:18:29 <Twinge> Not an especially uncommon problem with authors.  Piers Anthony comes to mind...
05:19:35 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * rb52192dfd5ee 10/crawl-ref/ (settings/init.txt source/initfile.cc): Set default hp_warning to 30% (dpeg, usability).
05:19:38 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte * rf8970960b15c 10/crawl-ref/source/mutation.cc: Un-unroll a loop.
05:19:41 <Twinge> He's had a couple of series that ended, and were fine, and then suddenly years later added some more books to those series and they're awful
05:20:18 <Spads> rather like how Farscape had a great ending in the penultimate episode of the third season, but then they did one more episode and then one more seasona nd then one more special and *ugh* it was all hideous
05:21:19 <Twinge> I wonder if I should rewatch that sometime; I never watched it religiously so I only got episodes here and there.  I do fondly remember 'Crackers Don't Matter' though :)
05:21:32 <Spads> haha
05:21:55 <Spads> it was good from about mid-season 1 through the next-to-last episode of S3
05:22:01 <Spads> everything else was pretty bad
05:22:57 <Twinge> That's really par for the course though, isn't it?  There's a lot of series I'm told are well worth watching but have awful 1st or last seasons (e.g. Buffy, Battlestar, etc.)
05:24:50 <bhaak> hmm, which season would that be for buffy? I thought most people hated season 6
05:26:29 <Twinge> And 1, IIRC.  (i haven't seen it)
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05:30:27 <ortoslon> please update tiles builds
05:33:50 <Spads> bhaak: the movie.
05:33:58 <kilobyte> ortoslon: what OS do you use?  If Debian/Ubuntu, you could test my packaging.
05:34:28 <ortoslon> winxp, why else would i need builds ;)
05:34:55 <Twinge> pretty easy to make your own build on XP too
05:36:02 <Twinge> install git, pull the current version, 'make tiles', and one other thing mentioned in the install.txt.  It'll take forever to comple though :P
05:36:51 <ortoslon> does git contain all compilers needed
05:37:05 <Twinge> Yes.  Get msysgit
05:37:16 <syllogism> read install.txt
05:37:28 <syllogism> oh :P
05:38:25 <bhaak> Spads: oh, right, the movie :)
05:39:21 <Spads> bhaak: I'm told that whedon refused to hire on anyone who had ever seen it
05:39:23 <bhaak> lol
05:39:23 <Madtrixr> I could see that.
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05:46:03 <Spads> http://www.summerglauonastick.co.uk
05:46:58 <Madtrixr> lolwut?
05:47:09 <Spads> it's a UK corporation
05:47:12 <Spads> largely concerned with
05:47:17 <Spads> Summer Glau
05:47:19 <Spads> on a stick.
05:47:29 <Madtrixr> Noted...
05:47:38 <Spads> be sure to listen to the song.
05:47:49 <Madtrixr> Why would would I want Summer Glau on a stick?
05:47:50 <Madtrixr> wait.
05:47:56 <Madtrixr> don't awnswer tha
05:48:01 <Spads> I believe that's covered on the web page.
05:48:01 <Madtrixr> *that
05:49:01 <Madtrixr> Oh man.
05:51:49 <ortoslon> syllogism: where's install.txt?
05:53:19 <ixtli> lol
05:53:33 <ixtli> grep
05:54:32 <syllogism> http://crawl-ref.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=crawl-ref/crawl-ref;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/INSTALL.txt
05:54:55 <ortoslon> thx
05:56:29 <Madtrixr> Spads: I haven't checked out the song, but that is hilarious.
05:57:39 <Spads> :D
05:57:42 <Spads> \〠/
05:58:35 <ortoslon> doesn't work, i'll wait for napkin to update instead
06:00:24 <Madtrixr> I added something to the bad ideas database that I didn't see when I checked, so...
06:00:41 <Madtrixr> ??bad ideas[1487]
06:00:42 <Henzell> bad ideas[1487/1487]: Chokoban!
06:03:01 <scarf> ok, that one's brilliant
06:04:09 <Napkin> what's up, ortoslon?
06:04:57 <ortoslon> too lazy to build tiles myself
06:07:05 <by> does anyone know if it's important that SPELL_ALTER_SELF return SPRET_FAIL instead of SPRET_ABORT when aborting due to low health?
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06:17:05 <ortoslon> Napkin: damn, i thought the last version was old because i forgot that february has only 28 days. dling and playing now
06:19:51 <due> Why would -dev care about summerglau on a stick?
06:19:56 <due> -offtopic is thataway ;)
06:19:58 <Napkin> hehhe
06:20:31 <due> Not that summer glau is not hot.
06:21:36 <bhaak> you made a mistake: "NotE that summer glau is not hot."
06:22:35 <due> No, I made no mistake. I said exactly what I meant to say. ;)
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06:34:54 <bhaak> due: okay, have her. As long as I can keep jessica alba and lexa doig, I'm fine :-)
06:36:58 <due> bhaak: I don't want her, not my type :0
07:12:26 <CIA-40> 03due * r59714144a090 10/crawl-ref/source/l_item.cc: Improvement on the identified wrapper. (greensnark)
07:12:28 <CIA-40> 03due * r4e2006d869f8 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/clua/lm_trove.lua: Use new item identified wrapper for troves.
07:12:31 <CIA-40> 03due * rd45872be0b7f 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/clua/lm_trove.lua: Further debug functionality for troves.
07:13:12 <due> !tell doy Can you cherry-pick 59714144a0 and 4e2006d869f8a? It would be nice if the debug stuff could go in as well, in case we need to debug 0.6 saves at a later date, but it is utterly not essential (and would require cherry-picking some previous commits where I added the cMD_WIZARD_DEBUG_PORTAL code).
07:13:12 <Henzell> due: OK, I'll let doy know.
07:13:17 <due> !tell doy Thank you very much!
07:13:17 <Henzell> due: OK, I'll let doy know.
07:13:34 <Keskitalo> Afternoons!
07:13:34 <due> !tell doy (PS: Not quite done on troves, but sleep and work call. Very close, though.)
07:13:34 <Henzell> due: OK, I'll let doy know.
07:13:38 <due> Hi Keskitalo!
07:13:46 <Keskitalo> Heyaa due!
07:14:01 <due> I should be sleeping!
07:14:45 * Keskitalo casts ensorcelled hibernation at due
07:19:04 * due splat.
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07:54:33 <ortoslon> clearing the map leaves black dots on minimap in place of monsters in tiles
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08:08:30 <ixtli> ??bad ideas
08:08:30 <Henzell> bad ideas[1/1487]: A tree race, that moves super slowly but can spread roots to scout ahead.  Gains different fruits it can drop from its branches as it goes up in level.  Note: to read this whole list, visit http://crawl.akrasiac.org/learndb.html#bad_ideas
08:10:13 <CIA-40> 03by * r250a3672212c 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-cast.cc: Make Alter Self abort instead of fail at low HP.
08:10:22 <CIA-40> 03by * r5ca4edf9cb1a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (spells3.cc spells3.h spl-cast.cc spl-cast.h): Split big spell cast switch out of your_spells to _do_cast.
08:10:24 <CIA-40> 03by * ra3453bdfe1c8 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-cast.cc: Rename normal_cast to want_repeat and move into _do_cast.
08:10:29 <CIA-40> 03by * r3dc39b42dc04 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-cast.cc: Split spell repeat cancel out into _maybe_cancel_repeat.
08:10:31 <CIA-40> 03by * r16abcfaea6be 10/crawl-ref/source/ (makefile.obj spl-cast.cc spl-zap.cc spl-zap.h): Move spell-to-zap mapping out from _do_cast into spl-zap.cc.
08:10:32 <CIA-40> 03by * r1ccd207fa1e2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (beam.cc zap-data.h): Move zap_data definition into zap-data.h.
08:10:35 <CIA-40> 03by * r48e279ddb587 10/crawl-ref/source/ (beam.cc beam.h main.cc): Spell-data like array index for zap_data.
08:10:38 <CIA-40> 03by * r76809b1cc0fc 10/crawl-ref/source/ (spl-zap.cc spl-zap.h): spell_zap_power_cap: Translates zap power cap to spell power.
08:10:38 <CIA-40> 03by * ree5e51cb93c3 10/crawl-ref/source/ (beam.cc beam.h): Add zap_power_cap.
08:10:39 <CIA-40> 03by * r472a009b4b1d 10/crawl-ref/source/zap-data.h: Comment on ZAP_HIBERNATION power cap.
08:10:41 <CIA-40> 03by * r6329d2645238 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-util.cc: Bring zap power cap into spell_power_cap.
08:10:44 <CIA-40> 03by * rcb9423810340 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-util.cc: Comment on spell_desc::power_cap.
08:10:59 <ixtli> ??bad ideas[23]
08:10:59 <Henzell> bad ideas[23/1487]: You should get a combo multiplier for subsequent kills.
08:11:03 <ixtli> ??bad ideas[24]
08:11:03 <Henzell> bad ideas[24/1487]: And it should say "M-M-M-MULTI KILL"
08:11:12 <ixtli> These are NOT bad ideas!!
08:19:18 <greensnark> I suspect the dark hand of Eino in the M-M-M-MULTI KILL thing
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08:43:27 <dpeg> !seen due
08:43:27 <Henzell> I last saw due at Tue Mar  2 13:19:04 2010 UTC (1h 24m 23s ago) acting out due splat. on ##crawl-dev.
08:43:45 <dpeg> !seen greensnark
08:43:46 <Henzell> I last saw greensnark at Tue Mar  2 14:22:42 2010 UTC (21m 3s ago) saying Yeah :P on ##crawl.
08:44:00 <greensnark> Guten Tag
08:44:06 <greensnark> Nabend
08:44:22 <greensnark> @generic_locale_specific_greeting@
08:45:00 <bhaak> greensnark: "moin" works at every time, night and day
08:45:11 <greensnark> @moin@
08:45:34 <greensnark> The orc says to @player@, @moin@
08:45:36 <dpeg> "moin" only works in some regions. Not in my one, for example.
08:45:53 <dpeg> greensnark: what do you think about making Sprint a part of DCSS, similar to the arena?
08:46:06 <greensnark> dpeg: Sure, why not
08:46:20 <greensnark> But Chapayev is maintainer, so you'll have to give him commit privs as well
08:46:34 <dpeg> greensnark: if we do this, we'll want as few as possible rule changes for Sprint, I think.
08:46:39 <greensnark> Otherwise there'll be unnecessary overhead when he wants to make changes
08:46:46 <dpeg> yes
08:46:47 <Napkin> greensnark - your changes about DGL are live on CDO :D
08:46:54 <Napkin> idle-time set to 60m
08:46:55 <greensnark> Napkin: Nice, anything fall over yet? :)
08:47:06 <greensnark> Has anybody been cruelly killed when not idling? :)
08:47:08 <Napkin> no, works like a charm - as always :-P
08:47:10 <Napkin> :))
08:47:20 <dpeg> Napkin: what happens after an hour?
08:47:38 <greensnark> dpeg: Cerebov arrives to hurry the player up a bit
08:48:02 <greensnark> Cerebov gets rid of idlers by the power of FIRE STORM
08:48:58 <greensnark> Napkin: How do you upgrade dgl? Do you killall -HUP crawl? :)
08:53:59 <dpeg> is there also killall -HUPE ?
08:54:06 <dpeg> (Hupe = horn)
08:54:26 <greensnark> killall -HOPE
08:54:41 <dpeg> of course!
08:57:44 <Keskitalo> ...seriously?
08:58:29 <dpeg> Keskitalo: Hi!
08:58:43 <Keskitalo> Btw, we discussed within the UP team today, how the level-based tutorial would (probably) be very similar to Sprint.
08:58:54 <dpeg> could be, yes
08:59:28 <dpeg> I thought some more about a series of puzzles, indexed by runes. For puzzle N, the player should start at XL N.
08:59:37 <dpeg> I guess we need a Sprint wiki.
08:59:40 <Napkin> hehehe
08:59:41 <dpeg> !seen Chapayev
08:59:41 <Henzell> I last saw Chapayev at Mon Mar  1 22:36:32 2010 UTC (16h 23m 9s ago) quitting with message Quit: leaving.
08:59:43 <greensnark> Keskitalo: You were the person who added "M-M-M-MULTI KILL" to bad_ideas, right? :)
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09:00:15 <dpeg> greensnark: you are reading bad ideas in your free time? :P
09:00:21 <ixtli> Wow.  #include'ing a .cc file causes a lot more obscure problems then I would think it would.
09:00:30 <Keskitalo> greensnark: You seem to have better memory than me! That brings a game (Soldat) to my mind, it has a similar message.
09:00:32 <ixtli> As opposed to just saying "#include directive used with a .cc file"
09:00:41 <Napkin> Due to bandwidth problems greensnark and me decided to limit play-time on CDO to 60 minutes in a row..
09:00:47 <ixtli> Keskitalo: Woah.  Soldat.
09:00:47 <Keskitalo> DrPraetor: Hi! Thanks for championing the Transmuters in the wiki. :)
09:00:54 <Keskitalo> ixtli: Rox.
09:00:56 <ixtli> Oldschool.
09:00:57 <kilobyte> well, we should nuke all but perhaps ten of bad_ideas to restore some sanity to learndb
09:01:01 <ixtli> \m/
09:01:06 <greensnark> Yeah, after 60 minutes of continuous play OOD spawn rate increases
09:01:17 * Napkin giggles *
09:01:22 <ixtli> kilobyte: They're hilarious, though.
09:01:23 <scarf> kilobyte: no, we should implement them in a fork, in the hope they'll go away
09:01:26 <scarf> actually, some of them are in trunk
09:01:28 <ixtli> And some of them are certainly not bad ideas :P
09:02:07 <Napkin> greensnark: I made ssh & telnet & "crawl" run a shell-script now - and I switch between the binaries dgl and dgl-new in them
09:02:08 <Keskitalo> dpeg: Badges would be awesome to have with Sprint in the game.
09:02:27 <dpeg> Keskitalo: yes
09:02:38 <kilobyte> some ideas are really, really bad.  Like 13.
09:02:41 <greensnark> Napkin: Ah!
09:02:57 <dpeg> Keskitalo: although sprint would come with badges already, if you can tackle level X+1 only after having cleared level X.
09:03:03 <greensnark> kilobyte: That one was mine, actually :P
09:03:14 <kilobyte> most are mere spam, though
09:03:15 <doy> ??bad ideas[13]
09:03:15 <Henzell> doy: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them.
09:03:15 <Henzell> bad ideas[13/1487]: A graphical tile interface, so players don't need to read to play Crawl!
09:03:35 <dpeg> I have to admit that I am responsible for some of the bad ideas.
09:03:37 <doy> !messages
09:03:38 <Henzell> (1/3) due said (1h 50m 26s ago): Can you cherry-pick 59714144a0 and 4e2006d869f8a? It would be nice if the debug stuff could go in as well, in case we need to debug 0.6 saves at a later date, but it is utterly not essential (and would require cherry-picking some previous commits where I added the cMD_WIZARD_DEBUG_PORTAL code).
09:03:41 <doy> !messages
09:03:41 <Henzell> (1/2) due said (1h 50m 24s ago): Thank you very much!
09:03:44 <doy> !messages
09:03:44 <Henzell> (1/1) due said (1h 50m 10s ago): (PS: Not quite done on troves, but sleep and work call. Very close, though.)
09:05:03 <kilobyte> !learn edit bad_ideas[108] s/$/  This includes players.  Especially players!/
09:05:03 <Henzell> bad ideas[108/1487]: Vampires instantly die in the presence of a Sun Demon - even a friendly one.  This includes players.  Especially players!
09:05:33 <bhaak> clearing the bad ideas won't help a lot. only about 1/4th or 1/5th in learndb are bad ideas
09:06:04 <ixtli> What is Sprint?
09:06:09 <dpeg> ??sprint
09:06:10 <Henzell> dungeon sprint[1/2]: New fast Crawl variant, coded by Chapayev, source code at http://sites.google.com/site/crawlvariations/dungeon-sprint
09:06:19 <ixtli> :o
09:07:59 <kilobyte> doy: speaking about cherry-picks, 2e7cf33f and 0533438f would be nice for packaging
09:10:42 <Keskitalo> dpeg: True.
09:10:45 <ortoslon> maybe someone writes a blog post about crawl variants
09:11:20 <dpeg> ortoslon: I asked Chapayev to write something, and he said yes :)
09:11:26 <ortoslon> great
09:11:37 <dpeg> After that, it occurred to me that I could write about gods and their genesis. Would that be interesting?
09:11:44 <ortoslon> yes
09:11:47 <Keskitalo> dpeg: Yes! Of course. :)
09:11:56 <Keskitalo> dpeg: Did you read my Spider ideas yet btw?
09:12:00 <dpeg> sure
09:12:05 <ortoslon> blog is almost better than the game now :P
09:12:10 <dpeg> Keskitalo: okay, will do. I think writing blog entries helps due.
09:12:16 -!- ortoslon was kicked from ##crawl-dev by dpeg [Blasphemy!]
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09:12:34 <Keskitalo> ortoslon: Kind of like the DF devlog, huh? :)
09:12:43 <dpeg> Keskitalo: my idea was specifically to have a god which is very hard to worship.
09:12:57 <ortoslon> i don't play/read DF
09:12:59 <dpeg> The "one species only" niche is already covered by Beogh.
09:13:04 <dpeg> ortoslon: reading DF is cool
09:13:13 <Keskitalo> dpeg: Yes, that is excellent, and it think it fits with my separate idea quite nicely!
09:13:24 <scarf> dpeg: a "you have to turn your entire gameplan to this god or get kicked out with loads of penance" god?
09:13:38 <dpeg> scarf: yes
09:13:50 <dpeg> It's not a mainline god.
09:14:40 <Keskitalo> DrPraetor: Duh, I completely forgot about Necromutation.
09:15:26 <by> hrm, 289d3046 is bound to cause trouble
09:16:59 <Keskitalo> by: <3 the cleanup work
09:17:29 <greensnark> by: Yes, looks awesome
09:20:08 <by> net loss of LOC, so I'm happy with it :)
09:20:40 <greensnark> ??bad_ideas[327]
09:20:41 <Henzell> bad ideas[327/1488]: Twitter feed for Henzell's milestone and death announcements
09:20:45 <greensnark> nao actually does this :P
09:21:00 <greensnark> They're stealing our bad ideas :P
09:23:21 <kilobyte> Well, the idea can be shortened to its first word, and it stays as bad.
09:25:20 <bhaak> why does s/Twitter feed/IRC messages/ make it a good idea?
09:25:33 <bhaak> twitter's been designed for spamming
09:26:49 <greensnark> Yeah, the bot announcements tend to be pretty spammy
09:27:46 <scarf> ??bad ideas[71]
09:27:47 <Henzell> bad ideas[71/1488]: DWIM (Do What I Mean) key that takes the most appropriate action for your character automatically.
09:27:56 <scarf> I'm actually vaguely working on this one
09:28:01 <ortoslon> save-and-quit
09:28:40 <bhaak> greensnark: are the dgl changes regarding idle-time online somewhere or will the flow back into paxed's repo?
09:30:35 <greensnark> bhaak: http://git.develz.org/?p=dgamelaunch.git;a=summary
09:31:06 <greensnark> paxed also pulls some changes into the main dgl repo
09:31:32 <bhaak> greensnark: thanks, I know someone who might be interested. we have strange idlers on un.nethack.nu
09:31:49 <paxed> and i'll apply those changes to svn today.
09:31:49 <greensnark> "strange"? :)
09:32:22 <bhaak> greensnark: idle since 21982 minutes, or starting to idle on turn 2
09:32:57 <bhaak> paxed: ah, great
09:33:38 <paxed> didn't want to mess with it yesterday, what with 2 hour sleep the previous night :P
09:33:44 <scarf> bad idea 147 always bothered me; it /is/ a weird interface annoyance (especially in the Abyss), although their proposed solution is clearly stupid
09:35:10 <CIA-40> 03by * r5bfe9fe0308d 10/crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: Use env.map_knowledge instead of env.grid in describe_floor.
09:35:18 <CIA-40> 03by * r56dd07f6faa8 10/crawl-ref/source/view.cc: Fix env.map_knowledge being filled inappropriately in the abyss.
09:35:52 <doy> ??bad ideas[147]
09:35:52 <Henzell> bad ideas[147/1488]: Since you can't see into clouds of smoke, you can't see if lava is there. You know where this is going.
09:36:32 <scarf> it's really annoying wanting to run "approximately left" and not knowing which squares under the smoke are lava, and which are
09:36:49 <scarf> so you either have to do a bunch of farlooking, or guess and rely on the "do you really want to do that", which is only useful for one square
09:37:06 <scarf> *and which aren't
09:37:47 <by> doy: I think 56dd07f6 should probably go in 0.6, though it doesn't fix any actual known bugs and is the kind of change that might have unintended side-effects
09:37:50 <dpeg> Solution: (1) X should suppress clouds (or there's a toggle in X); (2) X works in the Abyss, but only for your vicinity
09:37:58 <ixtli> scarf: An interesting solution might be to have a state where you can tell that there is 'something there'
09:38:00 <by> but less so than 289d3046 which is already in :)
09:38:12 <ixtli> scarf: And the tiles rep. of this could be a form in fog.
09:38:24 <scarf> hmm, yes, maybe
09:38:48 <scarf> would walking into a lava tile still give the "why would you do that?" message, or would it swing at the square, or what?
09:39:19 <ixtli> Dunno.  There are other indications of lava being right in front of you besides sight :)
09:39:24 <doy> X should suppress clouds, because it's impossible to tell which are clouds and which are walls
09:39:27 <doy> d:
09:39:29 <dpeg> doy: yes
09:39:35 <doy> makes it annoying to tell which way you need to go
09:39:46 <doy> (really, remapping the cloud glyph would be a better option, but...
09:39:47 <doy> )
09:40:24 <dpeg> doy: there hasn't been a good proposal yet
09:40:27 <ixtli> scarf: If the fog means that you literally can not see any lava, then maybe you should get a generic error, like "something doesn't seem right."
09:40:38 <scarf> hmm, maybe
09:40:42 <ixtli> scarf: However, this does bring up the interesting question of smoke over deep water.
09:40:47 <scarf> so the idea's to make it possible to detect lava more than one square away?
09:40:53 <scarf> *impossible
09:41:11 <scarf> if it's under a cloud?
09:41:21 <ixtli> I mean, it really depends on if the in-game smoke is supposed to completely cover the lava.
09:41:59 <scarf> also, isn't it always optimal to move towards lava just in case there's a flying invisible monster hovering over it?
09:42:05 <scarf> that's a bit of a pathological case too
09:42:11 <ixtli> Yeah ... hmm.
09:42:32 <ixtli> But then that would cover the case where the player might be notified that there is "something" in the cloud.
09:42:36 <scarf> yes
09:42:38 <kilobyte> you can always see anything in the first square that blocks LOS
09:42:40 <ixtli> I dunno if that is getting too complicated then.
09:42:54 <kilobyte> even inside a wall
09:42:56 <scarf> then you get a different pathological case, where you can see flying invisible monsters next to you only if they're in a cloud at the time
09:43:06 <scarf> (are there any flying invisible monsters in Crawl?)
09:43:10 <doy> this is a pointless argument anyway
09:43:18 <doy> you can see floor features under clouds
09:43:23 <doy> so it doesn't matter
09:43:36 <scarf> yep, the original argument is the interface issue, of having to repeatedly farlook to see floor features under clouds
09:43:45 <kilobyte> scarf: they can drink a potion or have a wand zapped at them
09:44:07 <scarf> hmm, yes
09:44:15 <ixtli> is there a way I can get git to show me all the changes to a specific file?  all-of-a-sudden i'm getting "tiles.h:52: error: ‘you’ was not declared in this scope" but I've never touched it.
09:44:16 <scarf> looks like another job for intercrawl
09:44:27 <ixtli> I think I may have merged something that broke it
09:44:48 <doy> i've suggested a "hide all non-floor things" toggle for a while now
09:45:06 <doy> seems like a better solution
09:45:07 <dpeg> doy: yes, I support that
09:45:13 <scarf> agreed, that would solve my problem
09:45:26 <scarf> (did you steal that feature from TAEB, or vice versa?)
09:45:51 <doy> vice versa doesn't make sense, since it doesn't exist in crawl yet d:
09:46:41 <scarf> doy: I meant, were you planning it for Crawl, then added it to TAEB because it was three lines of code there and much harder to code in Crawl?
09:47:18 <doy> pretty sure it was added to taeb first, but i don't really remember
09:47:20 <greensnark> It's not "much harder to code" :P
09:47:36 <greensnark> With the view cleanup by by it should be trivial
09:47:55 <ixtli> found it
09:48:00 <greensnark> Also "by" is a damn inconvenient nick :P
09:48:00 <ixtli> where is 'you' first defined?
09:48:01 <ixtli> XD
09:48:10 <dpeg> doy: I am not sure there is a comment on the interface wiki page
09:48:34 <greensnark> ixtli: player.h
09:48:44 <greensnark> Well, declared, not defined
09:48:45 <ixtli> greensnark: Thanks :D  I seem to have broken something strange.
09:48:53 <ixtli> yeah.
09:54:03 <by> not copying clouds to map_knowledge seems like a good idea regardless, or am I missing something?
09:54:28 <dpeg> by: no, not that I am aware of.
09:57:49 <CIA-40> 03by * ra4f4847921cc 10/crawl-ref/source/show.cc: Don't copy clouds to map_knowledge.
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10:13:57 <by> uh, why does tiles draw unknown mimics with tile_place_monster?
10:17:30 <by> greensnark: it turns out your clear_map changes obsoleted env.show.backup; that's nice :)
10:18:26 <CIA-40> 03by * r61a89c81ef8d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (show.cc show.h): Remove obsolete env.show.backup.
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10:42:39 <Chapayev> Napkin: you there?
10:42:39 <Henzell> Chapayev: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
10:42:44 <Chapayev> !messages
10:42:44 <Henzell> (1/2) marcmagus said (16h 26m 28s ago): Sprint sometimes crashes when you open the door south of Sonja. Possibly a gas spore explosion thing? Possibly not your bug.
10:42:49 <Chapayev> !messages
10:42:49 <Henzell> (1/1) dpeg said (2h 17m 6s ago): Thought some more... and I feel you shouldn't do anything (complicated) to cap the piety gain with the good gods. We will go from piety for waiting to piety for exploration, which will en passent solve the Sprint issue.
10:43:20 <Chapayev> !tell dpeg i'm glad to hear it about piety gain for exploration for good gods!
10:43:21 <Henzell> Chapayev: OK, I'll let dpeg know.
10:45:16 <cbus> whats up with hte chaos g guy having a hammer weapon next to his spawn?
10:47:30 <Chapayev> !tell napkin when you get a chance, let me know how we should handle sprint 2 in the git repository--should sprint 2 be a separate branch from sprint 1?
10:47:30 <Henzell> Chapayev: OK, I'll let napkin know.
10:49:53 <dpeg> Chapayev: got another level already? :O
10:49:53 <Henzell> dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
10:50:00 <dpeg> Chapayev: also, did you get my mail?
10:50:28 <Chapayev> dpeg: the thing about good god piety? yeah, i just messaged you back about that, it's good news to me
10:50:42 <Chapayev> dpeg: i don't have another level already but i was thinking of beginning work on one
10:50:44 <dpeg> Chapayev: no, the one about integrating Sprint into DCSS :)
10:50:53 <dpeg> Chapayev: using subvaults?
10:50:59 <Chapayev> dpeg: oh, gotcha, yeah you just sent it, let me read it
10:51:40 <Chapayev> dpeg: heh, about learning to use commit rights: i read napkin's git tutorial and it was very helpful, i'm getting the hang of git now :)
10:54:06 <dpeg> Chapayev: it is easier than svn, I find
10:54:11 <Chapayev> dpeg: yes, definitely using subvaults, i looked at the vaults:8 code in master and it's great
10:54:24 <dpeg> Enne's code, Mu's vaults
10:54:28 <Chapayev> dpeg: subvaults are perfect for sprint
10:55:28 <ixtli> Chapayev: neunon linked me to http://progit.org/book/ when I started hacking on crawl
10:55:43 <ixtli> Chapayev: After reading it I'm versioning my documents directory with git XD
10:56:30 <doy> Chapayev: how many actual code changes does sprint require?
10:56:36 <Chapayev> ixtli: i wrote a bash script to handle version control, building a document directory tree in html, and other stuff for my tex files before i know about software like git :P
10:56:55 <Chapayev> doy: about 14, plus replacing entry.des
10:57:05 <Chapayev> doy: not much at all
10:57:18 <dpeg> doy: this is why I proposed it :)
10:57:32 <doy> maybe i'll just go ahead and integrate it in this afternoon
10:57:33 <doy> (:
10:57:45 <dpeg> doy: without formal consent?
10:57:50 * dpeg makes a stern face
10:57:51 <dpeg> :)
10:57:52 <ixtli> I've been using SVN for a while, but yeah, git is just more featureful and doesn't seem to get in your way as much as the former.
10:57:59 <doy> dpeg: i thought people had already agreed d:
10:58:16 <dpeg> doy: yeah, they had 20 minutes to say No, so what the heck :)
10:58:27 <doy> dpeg: i was talking about yesterday on the ml d:
10:58:35 <dpeg> ah, true
10:58:48 <Chapayev> doy: okay, the one thing i wasn't very happy about was that the variable that says whether the player is playing a game of sprint or ordinary crawl, that needs to be saved with savegames, and i never read the part of the crawl code that does saves, so i wasn't looking forward to figuring that out :P if you want to handle that stuff, that would be awesome
10:58:55 <dpeg> Will be so cool to have a new Sprint challenge for the tournament.
10:59:08 <doy> Chapayev: yeah, that should be pretty easy
10:59:21 <dpeg> Chapayev: also, a special help screen may be useful.
10:59:23 <doy> have some errands to take care of at the moment
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10:59:24 <Chapayev> doy: also, i just committed a minor patch to sprint about ten minutes ago, and emailed the patch to napkin--it should probably be included in whatever you do
10:59:53 <Chapayev> doy: awesome, thanks!
11:00:05 <eric_c_c> I really wish that there were piety and hunger status bars just like health and MP
11:00:18 <Chapayev> dpeg: help screen shouldn't be bad, i can look into that later
11:00:19 <dpeg> eric_c_c: but they're much less important
11:00:24 <dpeg> eric_c_c: for piety, press %
11:00:30 <dpeg> hunger is announced
11:00:48 <doy> piety and hunger are also not given to the player exactly
11:00:56 <dpeg> doy: which is good
11:00:58 <doy> right
11:01:03 <Chapayev> doy: oh actually a number of changes to sprint are just to disable tutorial mode--obviously you don't want to disable tutorials in all of crawl. maybe it would be best for the player to choose between ordinary crawl, tutorial mode, and sprint
11:01:14 <doy> Chapayev: yes, sounds reasonable
11:01:15 <dpeg> Chapayev: a paragraph explaining the basic idea and goal, and perhaps another paragraph with rule changes would suffice.
11:01:27 <doy> i think Keskitalo and jpeg are working towards a better solution for that anyway, for 0.7
11:01:28 <eric_c_c> it would be nice to not have to press % constantly
11:01:31 <dpeg> doy: yes
11:01:39 <dpeg> eric_c_c: you don'T have to
11:01:42 <Chapayev> dpeg: yeah i think so, i'll just have to look at how the help system works in the crawl source
11:01:49 <doy> would be nice to have arena mode as an option there too(:
11:01:55 <dpeg> doy: oh yes
11:02:13 <doy> eric_c_c: piety breakpoint and hunger level changes are announced in the message area
11:02:18 <ixtli> eric_c_c: Screen real estate is valuable.
11:02:20 <dpeg> doy: I mean once we succumb to the tilists and have a starting menu, we can as well put the arena there.
11:02:51 <doy> i don't think a startng menu by default would be a bad idea, personally
11:03:02 <doy> can always have ./crawl -start or whatever
11:03:05 <dpeg> I am the last one :)
11:03:10 <doy> for people who are bothered by it
11:03:13 <doy> (and for dgl and such)
11:03:17 <dpeg> yes
11:03:29 <eric_c_c> ixtli, it looks like there is room for two more status bar
11:03:38 <doy> eric_c_c: not in console
11:03:42 <dpeg> eric_c_c: no, the status area is full
11:03:54 <ixtli> eric_c_c: play it in the terminal
11:03:56 <ixtli> yea
11:04:01 <eric_c_c> i do play it in terminal
11:04:04 <dpeg> and even if it weren't, hunger bar and piety bar won't be good
11:04:11 <doy> eric_c_c: there's the monster list and player status effects
11:04:16 <doy> which aren't always shown
11:04:19 <doy> but need space there
11:04:22 <eric_c_c> well PuTTY
11:04:27 <dpeg> but which are much more imrtpoant than hunger/piety
11:04:35 <doy> right
11:04:51 <dpeg> that's an interesting permutation
11:04:59 <doy> heh
11:05:22 <dpeg> probably because rt and po are next to each other, so almost count as one keypress
11:05:53 <dpeg> eric_c_c: for example, I have removed showing Gold
11:06:03 <dpeg> hunger and piety is about as important as gold
11:06:12 <eric_c_c> more so that gold
11:06:16 <doy> anyway, back in a bit
11:06:18 <eric_c_c> you only need to know gold once in a while
11:06:42 <dpeg> yes, similar with piety and hunger; unlike MP and HP
11:07:43 <st_> okay I had another crash in tomb, I think it was the death curse killing ally thing again
11:08:38 <eric_c_c> oh well fair enough
11:09:00 <eric_c_c> btw - love .6, love the plant god, my favorite game even better
11:12:05 <dpeg> eric_c_c: thank you!
11:12:26 <dpeg> st_: can you upload the save to the bug report, please?
11:12:37 <st_> yes I am now
11:12:48 <dpeg> thank you
11:12:49 <st_> but how do I upload the save myself?
11:14:26 <st_> okay I've got it
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11:18:31 <ixtli> Woah "{standard input}:32:FATAL:.abort  detected.  Assembly stopping."
11:18:44 <ixtli> This I've never seen.  I must have really mucked something up.
11:19:39 <Ashenzari> Mummy death curse related crash (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=997) by st
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11:24:00 <Keskitalo> Oooh, Sprint for tournament! *swoons*
11:24:29 <Chapayev> yeah i would love to make or see someone else make a special sprint map just for a tournament
11:24:38 <Chapayev> that person would have to sit the sprint part of the tournament out, however
11:25:15 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
11:25:17 <Chapayev> or maybe not? i suppose if you take crawl's license seriously maybe you aren't allowed to even keep the .des file for a tournament sprint map temporarily secret?
11:26:03 <Keskitalo> Heh, good question. But if it's a special version of Crawl only hosted on a server.. is that technically redistribution?
11:26:05 <doy> sure you are
11:26:08 <doy> no
11:26:23 <doy> hence why google can use their own custom linux modifications without having to distribute them
11:26:28 <doy> etc
11:26:32 <Chapayev> hm, i see
11:26:37 <Chapayev> good!
11:27:33 <Keskitalo> Chapayev: Btw, there's a map-based tutorial in plans, and I suspect it would be much like Sprint in execution. I haven't looked at Sprint code, though.
11:28:33 <Chapayev> Keskitalo: sprint code is basically just crawl code but with some stuff to force the dungeon the generate just the one fixed level, a multiplier on XP and piety gain and skill training, and problematic stuff like scrolls of teleportation disabled
11:28:48 <Chapayev> Keskitalo: probably very similar to a map-based tutorial
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11:57:27 <ixtli> woah
11:57:40 <ixtli> the current build displays shields for walls when you use magic mapping?
11:57:42 <ixtli> is this known?
11:57:47 <syllogism> yes
11:59:04 <ortoslon> and books for doors
11:59:24 <ortoslon> same glyph, i guess
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12:01:10 <ixtli> kk
12:01:10 <ixtli> :)
12:02:27 <ortoslon> woah, i just drew an orb of electricity and shot it at Roxanne but Nemelex "is disappointed in me". bug?
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12:17:34 <dpeg> Chapayev: many thanks!
12:18:00 <Napkin> Hey guys
12:18:00 <Henzell> Napkin: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
12:18:41 <Napkin> Chapayev, you removed all traps but alarm & disabled portal spell. was that you intention?
12:19:40 <Chapayev> Napkin: yeah, portal spell should be disabled, and shaft and teleport traps should be removed
12:20:16 <Chapayev> Napkin: damage traps can still generate
12:20:24 <Chapayev> Napkin: dart, arrow, etc
12:21:12 <Napkin> alright, then you did everything right with git :))
12:21:21 <Chapayev> Napkin: awesome :)
12:21:29 <Napkin> agreed :)
12:22:00 <Chapayev> dpeg: yeah thanks for having me write the thing for the crawl blog! I wanted to explain about "tomb of horrors" but didn't know where to do it, and that's probably the perfect opportunity
12:23:21 <Chapayev> Napkin: syllogism used the portal spell to leave d:1 and wander around the lower dungeon, gaining xp, before coming back up to d:1 at xl 15
12:23:30 <Napkin> rofl
12:23:30 <Chapayev> Napkin: so the portal spell needed to be disabled in sprint
12:23:45 <dpeg> Chapayev: yes, it is
12:26:26 <Napkin> Chapayev, do you have a minute?
12:26:35 <Chapayev> Napkin: sure
12:29:50 <doy> Chapayev: yeah, i was wondering if ck[lugonu] should also be disabled
12:30:11 <Chapayev> doy: is it really possible to abuse the starting abyss?
12:30:22 <doy> ask scarf
12:30:23 <doy> (:
12:31:15 <syllogism> it's not that useful in sprint, you can't really survive very long. It's much easier to abuse it once you return later with TSO
12:31:49 <syllogism> that lvl 15 sppa actually got most of the xp in abyss
12:32:24 <Chapayev> syllogism: so you convert to TSO, lugonu banishes you, then you run around and kill a lot of demons for TSO piety?
12:32:41 <doy> and xp
12:32:48 <syllogism> yes, though this time I just killed Sonja and used his weapon to banish myself
12:32:55 <doy> demons in the abyss probably give crazy xp with the modifiers
12:33:00 <dpeg> I would like to solve this by making Abyss much more dangerous
12:33:09 <syllogism> in sprint?
12:33:16 <Chapayev> yeah hm, it sounds like the problem is actually banishment, not ck of lugonu
12:33:28 <doy> Chapayev: yeah, possibly
12:33:49 <paxed> Napkin: greensnark's dgl changes are now in svn.
12:33:56 <Napkin> great
12:34:00 <doy> it probably would be cleaner just to not allow people to do anything at all to leave d:1
12:34:03 <doy> in sprint
12:34:11 <Napkin> did you change much or take them like they were?
12:35:02 <Ashenzari> Optional alternate species/job selection screens with menu and descriptions (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=998) by marcmagus
12:36:07 <paxed> Napkin: didn't change much; i just combined the changes into 3 commits, instead of those 8 different ones.
12:36:26 <Napkin> ok, cool :)
12:36:27 <Chapayev> any comments on the idea of disabling banishment in sprint?
12:36:37 <Napkin> git can understand that - luckily :)
12:36:45 <doy> Chapayev: the distortion effect should probably be replaced by something equally harsh
12:36:46 <dpeg> Chapayev: this disables distortion, I am not happy with that :)
12:36:49 <doy> yeah
12:37:11 <dpeg> doy: I won using distortion
12:37:46 <Chapayev> hm, if we just try to elimininate abyss-scumming by making the abyss much harder, i wonder how hard it should be
12:37:54 <dpeg> I think the proper solution is to increase Abyss monster generation (both number and toughness).
12:38:03 <syllogism> it won't work
12:38:07 <dpeg> syllogism: why?
12:38:12 <Chapayev> dpeg: maybe abyss monster toughness should also scale with player level
12:38:16 <syllogism> because once you've your tso servants up nothing can stop you
12:38:31 <syllogism> unless you go really crazy with the generation
12:38:31 <dpeg> syllogism: that's a bug with TSO piety
12:38:35 <doy> Chapayev: no
12:38:39 <dpeg> which will be fixed but only in 0.7
12:39:07 <syllogism> dpeg: well it would be harder to get that started but in abyss you get piety every kill
12:39:38 <Chapayev> doy: why no?
12:39:38 <dpeg> syllogism: no waiting piety for TSO plus harder Abyss should solve the issue
12:40:11 <doy> Chapayev: dungeon generation should not be based on any properties of the player
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12:40:52 <syllogism> if you make sprint abyss a death sentence, might as well disable it
12:41:26 <dpeg> syllogism: no, I want to keep it for Lugonites and for distortion.
12:41:43 <dpeg> actually, we don't need many more Abyss monsters, only tougher ones
12:41:49 <syllogism> good point about lugonites, distortion isn't a big deal though
12:41:51 <dpeg> so you could still hope to find that Lugonu altar
12:41:59 <dpeg> syllogism: I won on distortion
12:42:01 <dpeg> =)
12:42:09 <syllogism> you can allow banishing monsters :P
12:42:41 <Chapayev> okay, how about banishing monsters but the player can't be banished?
12:42:42 <syllogism> I guess disabling item gen in abyss would help
12:43:49 <dpeg> I think it's best if the Sprint code changes are of a simple, global nature.
12:43:56 <syllogism> in my DEEE game tiamat was swimming between those glass walls north of orb
12:43:58 <dpeg> (Better than many, complicated modifications.)
12:44:28 <Chapayev> syllogism: that's where tiamat is always generated
12:44:35 <syllogism> oh I see
12:44:35 <dpeg> Chapayev: yes, that would fit the bill
12:44:41 <syllogism> I'd never seen her before
12:45:02 <Chapayev> syllogism: she's supposed to hang out there, if you want to dig through the glass walls, swim or fly over the water, and grab the orb without facing lom lobon, you can do it you have to handle tiamat
12:45:05 <syllogism> that fire giant arena is a death sentence
12:45:08 <syllogism> area
12:45:19 <dpeg> syllogism: depends on the context :)
12:45:36 <Chapayev> syllogism: she starts asleep and on a space at the far east end of that little river of deep water, so it's possible to not wake her up and never see her--maybe you didn't wake her up before
12:45:40 <syllogism> if you find rf it's doable, and I suppose you usually do
12:45:52 <syllogism> everything wakes up for some reason
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12:46:41 <doy> yeah, this really points out some of the flaws in the noise system
12:46:49 <dpeg> doy: yes
12:47:15 <Chapayev> syllogism: i think the fire giants aren't too dangerous, certainly facing them is less dangerous than lom in a big cloud of miasma
12:52:00 <Chapayev> syllogism: i mean fire giants at xl 12 is unreasonable but so is every other monster you face in sprint
12:53:20 <dpeg> A centaur warrior is shooting me but I cannot see him :(
12:53:22 <dpeg> LOS bug?
12:53:28 <syllogism> greensnark reported one
12:54:03 <doy> dpeg: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=922
12:54:11 <Adeon> should make another crawl variant where everything is stretched from 27 to 81
12:55:39 <dpeg> Adeon: no, thanks
12:55:48 <Adeon> :-(
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12:56:12 <ortoslon> that'd be angbandish
13:00:10 <Ashenzari> Yet another LOS bug (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=999) by dpeg
13:00:51 <syllogism> that's the same bug dpeg? :P
13:01:06 <dpeg> syllogism: nope :)
13:01:06 <syllogism> oh and you closed it already :P
13:01:17 <dpeg> didn't know that centaur warriors would drink Invis
13:02:30 <doy> don't see why they couldn't
13:06:49 <Chapayev> Adeon: i actually thought about that, since i'd like players to be able to reach xl 27 in sprint, but an 81x multiplier is way too much in the early game
13:07:08 <Chapayev> Adeon: i do like kicking the powers of 3 in crawl up to the higher powers, like 81, though :)
13:07:18 <Chapayev> Adeon: one crawl variant i worked on but never finished had an 81-level branch
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13:09:47 <dpeg> If you make Crawl - the Economy Simulation, you can use 81 :P
13:10:31 <Chapayev> dpeg: or arithmetic crawl, where every game a random diophantine curve is generated and instead of powers of 3 all the game parameters are the integers points on the diophantine curve
13:10:53 <dpeg> pfff
13:11:06 <dpeg> boaster :P
13:11:23 <Chapayev> dpeg: oh sorry, you would only accept crawl over the complex number, not over a number ring :)
13:11:31 <Chapayev> *complex numbers
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13:13:20 <dpeg> Chapayev: algebraically closed of characteristic 0 is enough :P
13:13:46 <Chapayev> dpeg: wow, you'd accept working over the algebraic closure of Q_p? amazing :)
13:15:00 <Chapayev> so we never came to a decision about how to handle abyss-scumming in sprint. disable banishment of the player, but allow monsters to still get banished?
13:15:21 <dpeg> yes, that would work
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13:23:14 <marcmagus> Does that mean you can abandon Lugonu with much less of an impact? [although *not* getting banished might be harsher in sprint; not sure]
13:23:33 <Napkin> hey greensnark?
13:23:39 <dpeg> Yes, would mean that. But why would you abandon?
13:23:42 <Chapayev> marcmagus: i guess so
13:23:49 <Napkin> you were interested in those core dumps - weren't you?
13:23:52 <doy> dpeg: for a better god(:
13:24:00 <doy> i don't think it's that big of an issue though
13:24:16 <marcmagus> For a different god after getting an XP boost by starting in the Abyss.
13:24:29 <doy> well, ck[lugonu] shouldn't start in the abyss
13:25:24 <marcmagus> Why not?
13:25:32 <doy> for that reason
13:25:33 <doy> (:
13:25:58 <marcmagus> Because they get the boost, or because they can safely abandon Lugonu so there isn't a drawback to having gotten it?
13:26:11 <doy> the player shouldn't be able to access any part of the dungeon outside of D:1
13:26:15 <doy> marcmagus: both
13:26:42 <Napkin> !tell greensnark Lots of fresh, new core-dumps await you :D
13:26:42 <Henzell> Napkin: OK, I'll let greensnark know.
13:28:05 <marcmagus> Having completely failed to surpass my TrBe [post-fix] with any of my CK[lugonu]s, I'm not convinced it's broken power-wise. Design-wise, I could go either way with whether there should be a player-reachable Abyss in sprint.
13:28:34 <marcmagus> There seem to be issues with both choices. [Abyss scummable vs. what happens when a nasty monster tries to banish you]
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13:29:02 <doy> well
13:29:30 <doy> i managed to avoid dying in one of my games by blinking toward sonja, letting her hit me, getting banished, and escaping from the abyss
13:30:10 <doy> hmmm
13:30:27 <doy> maybe just making the abyss no-xp and no-items (and maybe no-piety) would work
13:31:16 <Chapayev> doy: hm, interesting
13:31:31 <Chapayev> doy: that sounds like the best solution so far
13:32:11 <dpeg> I agree.
13:32:20 <dpeg> Chapayev: this should be mentioned in the Sprint ? screen.
13:32:40 <Chapayev> !learn add sprint_ideas Make the abyss no-xp and no-items, and mention this in the Sprint help screen.
13:32:40 <Henzell> sprint ideas[7/7]: Make the abyss no-xp and no-items, and mention this in the Sprint help screen.
13:35:57 <marcmagus> A related thought: How long (in minutes) is the average escaped Abyss trip? I'd gotten the impression it was long enough not to be terribly sprint-like.
13:37:19 <dpeg> still another alternative, to make it more sprint-like: more (or better, tougher) monsters, no items, no xp, no piety, more exits
13:37:38 <doy> that'd work
13:38:17 <marcmagus> I like that if it's not too much tweaking to maintain.
13:38:19 <dpeg> I hope these are all single numbers, so that the DCSS->Sprint modification is still small.
14:04:34 <doy> hrm
14:04:39 <dpeg> doy: yes?
14:04:44 <doy> something i didn't think of before
14:05:11 <doy> what do we want to do about save versions between branches
14:05:36 <doy> because right now master is at 16.5, and 0.6 is at 16.6
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14:06:44 <doy> having these overlap seems bad
14:06:52 <doy> but not sure what a good solution is
14:06:57 <dpeg> oh, I have no idea
14:07:01 <dpeg> by and sorear might
14:07:30 <doy> !tell sorear what do we want to do about save versions between branches? right now master is at 16.5, and 0.6 is at 16.6, and having these overlap seems bad
14:07:30 <Henzell> doy: OK, I'll let sorear know.
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14:51:51 <Napkin> how could that happen, doy?
14:52:11 <Napkin> I mean.. didn't every change cherry-picked to 0.6 come from 0.7?
14:52:20 <doy> Napkin: demonspawn revert
14:52:29 <Napkin> ohh..
14:52:36 <Napkin> I see
14:52:52 <Napkin> do a commit to raise trunk save?
14:53:09 <doy> that's probably the best option that i can think of
14:53:25 <doy> but i'll wait to see what people more familiar with the save file system have to say
14:53:28 <doy> (:
14:53:33 <Napkin> :)
14:53:38 <Napkin> don't you dare listen to me
14:54:06 <Napkin> yay, I got kicked from CDO :D
14:54:10 <Napkin> Received HUP signal, saved game.
14:54:15 <Napkin> <3 idle time
14:55:21 <Napkin> Did Vandal or Stathol complain about it yet? ;>
14:55:36 <MarvinPA> ooh, i just submitted issue #1000
14:55:43 <Ashenzari> Multiple rings of sustain ability and teleport control are picked up by default (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1000) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid
14:55:43 <Napkin> \o/
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14:57:03 <MarvinPA> what would be really nice would be a way to only autopickup two rings of protection from fire/cold etc
14:57:04 <Keskitalo> Does sustain ability stack? tcontrol seems quite redundant :)
14:57:22 <doy> yeah, each sustain ability ring cuts stat loss by half
14:57:26 <dpeg> I believe that sust stacks
14:57:29 <MarvinPA> oh?
14:57:32 <MarvinPA> damn
14:57:51 <MarvinPA> i thought they stopped stat loss completely
14:57:56 <doy> nope
14:58:14 <doy> (although the majority of stat loss is a point at a time, and sustain ability rounds down)
14:58:31 <MarvinPA> i checked to see if rings of teleportation stacked (they do), should've checked that one too i guess
15:00:47 <MarvinPA> oh right yeah, wasn't thinking about big chunks of stat loss from miscasts and stuff, i see now
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15:03:48 <doy> by: maybe you'd know
15:03:59 <doy> 14:07 <+doy> !tell sorear what do we want to do about save versions between branches? right now master is at 16.5,  and 0.6 is at 16.6, and having these overlap seems bad
15:04:30 <doy> should we bump the major version on master?
15:13:38 <by> that won't help if we need to bump major in 0.6...
15:13:51 <doy> yeah, that was the reason i didn't just do it
15:14:19 <by> right thing would be to store branch also, and not allow transferring between branch, probably
15:18:05 <by> or just leave it be and remember not to transfer saves?
15:18:29 <by> or is this about cherry-picking? in that case no idea
15:19:55 <doy> i mean, it's probably not an issue... just seems like it could cause problems in the future if people don't think about it
15:22:41 <bhaak> does the usage statistic on the CAO homepage include CDO data?
15:25:49 <Napkin> yes
15:25:55 <Napkin> but in a separate folder, bhaak
15:26:08 <Napkin> follow the link on CDO's website
15:27:06 <dpeg> bhaak: do you have figures to compare?
15:28:17 <Napkin> doy: a savegame contains a version tag too?
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15:29:22 <bhaak> Napkin: can't find it. there's a page like http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/per-day.html for CDO?
15:29:28 <dpeg> yes
15:29:49 <bhaak> dpeg: maybe :) I've got NAO in a sqlite db
15:29:51 <Napkin> cdo -> links "Online Server CDO" -> Scoring Overview -> http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring-alpha/overview.html
15:30:26 <Napkin> cdo -> links "Online Server CDO" -> Scoring Overview -> http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring-alpha/overview.html -> ToC -> "Server Activity"
15:30:50 <bhaak> ah, server activity
15:30:50 <Cryp71c> Did the aptitude changes get revertted?
15:31:01 <dpeg> http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring-alpha/per-day.html
15:31:13 <dpeg> Cryp71c: why should they?
15:31:18 <TGW> is sustab displayed with two potential dots?
15:31:18 <doy> Cryp71c: they didn't go into 0.6, if that's what you're asking
15:31:21 <dpeg> I think everybody is happy with them.
15:31:31 <Cryp71c> oh thats right, keep forgetting CDO is on the .6 line
15:31:40 <Cryp71c> any way to play trunk on CDO?
15:31:49 <Napkin> not yet, Cryp71c
15:31:54 <Cryp71c> ah ok, just curious
15:31:57 <Napkin> apart from Dungeon Sprint - it's based on master
15:32:16 <Cryp71c> Yeah, I suppose I could go ahead and start looking into helping a bit more on the DS front.
15:32:33 <dpeg> Cryp71c: would be cool!
15:32:33 <Napkin> sure :)
15:32:37 <MarvinPA> TGW: nope, seems not
15:32:53 <dpeg> TGW: good  idea
15:33:22 <Napkin> or light and bright plus, like in the past?
15:33:24 <TGW> should be
15:33:32 <MarvinPA> can randarts in any other slot have sustab on them?
15:33:38 <TGW> also, marcmagus' new FR looks great
15:33:43 <TGW> MarvinPA: don't think so
15:33:56 <Cryp71c> ??git
15:33:56 <Henzell> git[1/1]: git clone git://crawl-ref.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/crawl-ref/crawl-ref
15:34:08 <Cryp71c> so is that pulling the .6 line, or the .7 dev line?
15:34:17 <Napkin> all of them, Cryp71c
15:34:32 <Cryp71c> ohright, its not svn :P
15:34:43 <Napkin> but "HEAD" (the one creating your local "master") is pointing to master
15:35:14 <Cryp71c> Oh ok, good.
15:35:33 <Cryp71c> Someone mentioned something about someone's git tutorial, anyone know where I can find that?
15:35:48 <Napkin> check out, then go crawl-ref/docs/develop/git
15:35:56 <Napkin> *clone, then go...
15:36:47 <Napkin> or check the http-gateway to read here: http://crawl-ref.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=crawl-ref/crawl-ref;a=tree;f=crawl-ref/docs/develop/git
15:37:49 <dpeg> bhaak: CAO has about 70 players a day, CDO 40-50.
15:38:37 <TGW> dpeg: is that recent?
15:38:51 <Napkin> CDO is usually not used much - apart by a few europeans or when a release is imminent, bhaak
15:38:51 <dpeg> TGW: the link ^
15:38:58 <TGW> I've been seeing cdo pretty frequently exceed cao, though it might be fewer players playing more
15:39:30 <Napkin> CDO is usually not used much - apart by a few europeans or when a release is imminent, TGW
15:39:34 <Napkin> ;)
15:40:22 <bhaak> dpeg: NAO has ~120 per day, but I'm just looking at monthly numbers that just don't look right
15:40:38 <bhaak> in February 21070 games, by 1018 different players and 152 ascensions?
15:40:53 <dpeg> bhaak: why not?
15:41:05 <dpeg> CAO has about 500 players a month.
15:41:12 <dpeg> Peak was 700 during the tournament.
15:41:39 <Napkin> people use multiple accounts too, bhaak
15:41:58 <dpeg> not sure that makes up more than 10% or so
15:42:25 <Napkin> I wouldn't have any statistical data..
15:42:34 <Napkin> just saying
15:43:21 <bhaak> dpeg: awful lots of games for a non-developed games :)
15:45:46 <dpeg> bhaak: we will get them.
15:45:54 <dpeg> Heck, you're one of them.
15:45:56 <dpeg> We will get you.
15:46:08 <bhaak> that's the spirit!
15:46:21 <bhaak> if you say it often enough, people will believe you! :)
15:46:33 <doy> are tags freeform?
15:46:35 <doy> in map files
15:46:39 <doy> the TAGS: line
15:48:44 <bhaak> !lg bhaak
15:48:44 <Henzell> 146. bhaak the Ruffian (L5 TrBe), worshipper of Trog, slain by a giant amoeba on Sprint on 2010-03-02, with 334 points after 95 turns and 0:01:29.
15:48:54 <CIA-40> 03by * rb5d49a0c6d05 10/crawl-ref/source/ (cmd-keys.h enum.h main.cc show.cc show.h view.cc view.h): Add CMD_SHOW_TERRAIN (key '|') to show just terrain.
15:48:57 <bhaak> greensnark claimed you alread got me
15:49:22 <MarvinPA> hmm, do sustab rings really stack? player_sust_abil is a bool
15:50:02 <Napkin> if bool do check for each ring?
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15:50:25 <MarvinPA> doesn't look like it - player_res_fire etc are all ints
15:50:26 <by> MarvinPA: it's int?
15:50:42 <dpeg> MarvinPA: depends on what you count. Tournament data looks comparable.
15:50:49 <MarvinPA> wha
15:50:57 <MarvinPA> oh
15:50:59 <MarvinPA> haha yeah
15:51:00 <MarvinPA> nevermind
15:51:05 <TGW> did you just misread int as bool
15:51:12 <MarvinPA> maybe
15:51:20 <TGW> lol
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15:53:43 <dpeg> bhaak: also, don't forget that we're only online for two or three years.
16:01:17 <bhaak> dpeg: have you ever looked at the numbers how many players play what version or how fast they switch?
16:01:41 <dpeg> bhaak: no, never
16:01:48 <dpeg> but Napkin has a feeling for that
16:01:58 <dpeg> the old versions are abandoned ruckzuck
16:03:06 <Cryp71c> I have the distinct feeling that if trunk were supported in the US, a lot of CAO players would be playing that instead of the current *stable* version
16:03:22 <Cryp71c> s/supported/available
16:03:50 <dpeg> Cryp71c: cannot ask rax right now, she's busy.
16:04:01 <doy> meh... how do i make a map that's not choosable by the normal vault picker routines?
16:04:17 <dpeg> I have the feeling that Napkin's system for CDO might be automated enough for her to use it (i.e. does not require much additional labour).
16:04:33 <by> doy: you could look at how the debug maps are loaded maybe?
16:04:39 <doy> i'm looking
16:04:41 <doy> but can't find it
16:04:52 <doy> i want to add 'sprint' as a special map tag
16:05:00 <doy> that says that it's only for sprint games
16:05:15 <dpeg> doy: Wouldn't putting them into a dedicated folder suffice?
16:05:27 <doy> dpeg: i have no idea, i don't know how this works
16:05:52 <dpeg> doy: ask greensnark next time he's around
16:06:01 <dpeg> I don't think a new TAG is needed for that.
16:06:11 <dpeg> although it wouldn't hurt, probably
16:06:44 <by> doy: it does dgn.load_des_file
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16:08:22 <by> doy: and that des file shouldn't be loaded by dat/lua/loadmaps.lua
16:08:37 <doy> why not?
16:08:40 <doy> portal vault maps are
16:09:12 <by> that might work, too -- I just looked how the debug maps were treated
16:09:16 <dpeg> the sprint/ folder could be explicitly excluded from loadmaps.lua?
16:09:26 <doy> dpeg: my point is, i don't see why it should have to be
16:09:32 <dpeg> ah
16:09:40 <doy> because portal vaults are already somehow excluded from normal vault selection
16:09:51 <doy> and stuff like that
16:11:31 <doy> ah, just have to remove the PLACE line
16:11:37 <dpeg> stones dropped by Iyjb are still ided (48 +1 stones). Is this a known bug?
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16:27:17 <Cryp71c> dpeg, yeah, I've mentioned it before, ages ago...I don't think she had the time (even before she got busy with her thesis) to update and build it on a regular basis.
16:27:25 <Cryp71c> And do the save game conversions, when they didn't automatically transfer.
16:28:22 <dpeg> Cryp71c: yes, I know. But now it's all automatic, so it might be okay.
16:33:51 <CIA-40> 03doy * rd4b735c4c470 10/crawl-ref/source/defines.h: bump up some #define limits, to accomodate sprint
16:33:54 <CIA-40> 03doy * r291d2fa7b3d6 10/crawl-ref/source/ (54 files): make 'game type' an enum rather than a bool, and serialize it
16:33:56 <CIA-40> 03doy * reaa23e307d45 10/crawl-ref/source/ (17 files in 2 dirs): Add the Dungeon Sprint variant by Chapayev into the main source
16:34:06 <doy> alright, let me know if i messed anything up too badly
16:34:19 <doy> ./crawl -sprint to run it
16:34:43 <doy> i'll be back in a bit
16:35:10 <dpeg> I have to go.
16:35:13 <dpeg> Many thanks, doy!
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16:53:15 <doy> !tell Chapayev i added sprint into the main source tree... any more changes you might want to make, you should make them against master rather than your branch(:
16:53:15 <Henzell> doy: OK, I'll let Chapayev know.
16:53:32 <bmh> I swear, I'll beat sprint...
16:54:01 <bmh> as long as I can stab Iyjb, the Ogre, Sigmund and that bloody kobold I tend to last a while
16:54:08 <bmh> as long as she's carrying a weapon of distortion
16:54:21 <doy> people should theoretically be able to play sprint on tiles now too... someone should mention that on sa
16:55:17 <dpeg> bmh: yes, you can win with that dagger of distortion
16:55:41 <bmh> also, worship Fed
16:56:06 <bmh> and let the giant spores rove about :-D
16:56:29 <bmh> oh: If anyone shouts within the first five kills, quit.
16:56:43 <GrimmSweeper> For stealth, aye. It becomes a clusterfuck after that.
16:57:11 <bmh> haha, I just got abyssed
16:58:29 <dpeg> also, close them doors
16:58:52 <GrimmSweeper> Slows 'em down abit, sure, but it isn't perfect. =/
16:59:35 <bmh> hah, you can try the "get banished to the abyss to worship Lugonu" strategy
16:59:47 <bmh> I bet Jiyva would make it easier
17:02:13 <bmh> oh duh! grab the orb and unwield the weapon of distortion repeatedly
17:02:40 <GrimmSweeper> And hope you get out before you die? =S
17:02:52 <bmh> I always play as a Spriggan, it won't be a problem
17:03:01 <bmh> The Abyss is safer than Dungeon Sprint!
17:03:54 <CIA-40> 03doy * rc9851543f65f 10/crawl-ref/source/hiscores.cc: oops
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17:13:26 <CIA-40> 03doy * rdb789b9b70ca 10/crawl-ref/source/hiscores.cc: use a different hiscore file for sprint
17:26:49 <CIA-40> 03j-p-e-g * r8e8e64d1513d 10/crawl-ref/ (INSTALL.txt docs/develop/tiles_creation.txt): Update tiles creation guide.
17:26:50 <due> morning
17:26:59 <doy> morning
17:27:32 <due> doy: What do you think about merging my portal debugging commits into 0.6? I know they're not essential, but they might be useful if we get "thistrove is broken, here is my save file"--and 0.7 has already broken save compat.
17:27:50 <doy> due: probably could
17:27:55 <doy> i'll look it over
17:28:12 <due> It's in a few cmomits, I'll give you a list of IDs if you want?
17:28:23 <doy> sure
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17:34:53 <due> doy: d45872be0b7f, f6f5a2ea2, 27048d13d17, 8a4ce5da4fc4, 70f0ac54e5f8a--in reverse order.
17:35:05 <doy> k
17:40:29 <purge> distortion needs to banish less often
17:40:34 <purge> i mean attacking with it
17:40:35 <doy> why?
17:40:46 <purge> too much exp loss makes it seem not viable :/
17:40:54 <purge> and you can't wield it situationally
17:41:04 <bmh> I've also nearly starved to death while wielding a distortion weapon.
17:41:25 <doy> well, it's also quite powerful
17:41:40 <doy> xp loss from banishment is intended as a balancer to that
17:42:05 <doy> people worry too much about xp loss
17:42:07 <purge> yeah i know the intent, but I think it needs another iteration
17:42:32 <purge> w/e its a minor thing anyways
17:42:46 <due> "zomg don't use draining--zp loss zomg"
17:43:00 <due> I used draining for the entire early game once and didn't notice an issue.
17:43:01 <purge> less xp != no xp :/
17:43:07 * due shrugs.
17:43:14 <doy> but it's not no xp
17:43:34 <purge> banish is no exp afaik?
17:43:44 <doy> right, but you don't banish everything
17:43:44 <due> I think doy meant draining.
17:44:02 <doy> you still kill plenty of things
17:44:04 <purge> if its a fast weapon alot of stuff does
17:44:05 <doy> and get full xp for them
17:44:29 <doy> i don't think it's a problem that distortion is better on some weapons than others
17:44:38 <purge> the whole problem is that you can't just use it situationally
17:45:20 <purge> if i said, "oh shit its that foo!" and could use distortion and banish and get no xp thats cool
17:45:31 <purge> but once you wield it your married to it
17:45:43 <purge> unless you want to risk the high chance of getting abyssed
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17:48:31 <MarvinPA> distortion banishment is awesome
17:48:44 <MarvinPA> i think it's only really good for a stabber though
17:49:32 <due> doy: "oops" makes for excellent commit reading.
17:49:36 <doy> (:
17:58:03 <due> looks like a delightful recompile time
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18:09:27 <Textmode> morning all
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18:14:58 <doy> oh, bah
18:15:16 <doy> just went and implemented keeping the player out of the abyss before remembering that we decided on something else
18:15:27 <Textmode> :/
18:15:49 <Textmode> nothing like time well spent, eh?
18:16:09 * due runs.
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18:47:00 <Enne> Howdy!
18:48:27 <sorear> !messages
18:48:43 <sorear> Henzell?
18:48:44 <sorear> agh
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18:50:00 <sorear> doy: Ooh, good one.  I would do an immediate major bump on master, that way 0.6 (which will always be 16.x) doesn't conflict
18:53:13 <Textmode> yeah, henzell seems to be dead atm...
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19:54:31 <Cryp71c_> Hello hello
19:54:45 <Cryp71c_> Pay no attention to the Cryp71c behind the curtain, i'm afk from that system (obviously)
19:55:47 <Textmode> heh
19:59:00 <Cryp71c_> What's the symbol used on the map called? (eg for Snakes its 'S')
19:59:06 <doy> glyph
19:59:06 <Cryp71c_> Can't think of the proper name of it...
19:59:09 <Cryp71c_> Thanks doy
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20:05:45 <Cryp71c_> Eronarn, you wrote the DS Brainstorming entry with regard to scales and points and such, yeah?
20:07:21 <Cryp71c_> Nevermind, I'm confusing myself, disregard that.
20:16:54 <Cryp71c_> doy, LOS increases are difficult (if not impossible) to handle, are LOS reductions easier to manage?
20:17:13 <DrPraetor> So I'm combing the "new gods" section for cool ideas.  Is the piety-for-exploration going in for the Good gods, or is that still a proposal just being bounced around?
20:18:57 <MarvinPA> there's already an item that reduces LOS, isn't there?
20:19:05 <doy> yes
20:19:15 <Cryp71c_> Yeah the bone lantern
20:19:35 <Cryp71c_> Just didn't know if that item had to be hard coded and was problematic to implement, or what
20:22:18 <doy> bah, looks like both making abyss monsters spawn faster and making the spawns more dangerous would be a lot of work
20:23:22 <Cryp71c_> eh, Abyss can be relatively dangerous when fiends start popping up everywhere
20:24:19 <DrPraetor> Does abyss really need to be more dangerous?
20:24:32 <Cryp71c_> What's a good mutation description for the +1 +2 +3 Reflection DS mutation?
20:24:32 <DrPraetor> Banishment is annoying enough without it being lethal.
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20:25:09 <Cryp71c_> Localized distortions is meh, I was thinking something more along the lines of 'Shortened Synapses' or something which might more adeptly explain +EV
20:25:09 <doy> DrPraetor: just looking at stuff for sprint
20:25:20 <DrPraetor> @Cryp: "You are hung luck a (horse|barnyard animal|elephant)"
20:25:36 <Cryp71c_> lol
20:25:45 <Cryp71c_> You deflect missiles with your genetalia.....I like it.
20:26:32 <DrPraetor> Seriously, there's already a +dex mutation.  The +EV mutation has to be a force field, or it makes no sense that it isn't dodge-based somehow.
20:27:12 <Cryp71c_> Well, but you can't explain a 'Reflect Missiles' as an added bonus to a mutation when the base mutation is +dex
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20:28:20 <Cryp71c_> And +dex has huge balance implications late game, since EV is no longer capped by dex +3 dex could mean +10 EV (I think?)
20:28:33 <DrPraetor> Not unless you're in spider form or something.
20:28:56 <DrPraetor> I think it might get to +7 or so?
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20:29:02 <DrPraetor> At dodge 27.
20:29:11 <DrPraetor> But anyway, the RMSl mutation should be a force field.
20:29:21 <Cryp71c_> DrPraetor, no, Its much higher than that with the new AC / EV changes, that seems way too small a bonus....
20:29:23 <Cryp71c_> but IDk for certain.
20:29:35 <DrPraetor> Less than that.
20:29:47 <Cryp71c_> I havn't examined the new formulas, from what I've been told they're rather elaborate
20:29:57 <DrPraetor> @Cryp71c_ - I'm playing right now, and my dodge is 16.
20:30:09 <DrPraetor> My amulet of +5 Dex is worth 4 EV.
20:30:32 <DrPraetor> So at 27 dodge, it'd be about 27/16*4?
20:30:57 <Cryp71c_> DrPraetor, whats your race?
20:31:25 <DrPraetor> Merfolk.
20:31:44 <DrPraetor> Yeah, it'd be bigger for a Spriggan or Halfling, of course.  But aren't we talking demonspawn?
20:31:55 <DrPraetor> Anyway, don't make it +dex.  It's a *force field*, just describe it as a force field.
20:32:06 <Cryp71c_> Yeah...there must be huge implications for size factor then.
20:32:33 <Cryp71c_> I've gotten up to +35 EV with 26 ish dex and only 14-15 in dodging.
20:32:36 <Cryp71c_> as a Sp
20:32:51 <Cryp71c_> and standard equipment, to boot..maybe 1 randart iirc
20:33:36 <DrPraetor> Oh, yeah.  Spriggan are insane now.  May need capping.
20:33:48 <DrPraetor> OTOH, 45 EV and you can still die.
20:34:03 <DrPraetor> I've got 46 EV in spider form in this game and it is nothing-like invulnerability.
20:34:32 <Cryp71c_> ofc, but 40+ EV really isn't much. When the AC / EV revisions came out, we had people in ##crawl spouting 50+ EV and they weren't even capped in dodging or level
20:34:43 <Cryp71c_> so they had tons of growing room
20:35:14 <Cryp71c_> and as I understand it, the more EV you have, the more health you need, since you're being hit for near-full amounts when you are hit
20:35:58 <DrPraetor> Ah.... no.  The to-hit roll and the damage roll are independent.
20:36:02 <Eronarn> DrPraetor: Doesn't have to be a force field, by the way. Can be a probability field, missiles decay in-flight...
20:36:16 <DrPraetor> @Eronarn - yeah, that's totally different from a force field.
20:36:59 <DrPraetor> Actually, "you are so lucky that you are (less likely to|often not|very rarely) struck by missiles" would work.
20:37:45 <Eronarn> 'The air around you is distorted' / 'The missile blinks away!'
20:38:12 <Cryp71c_> Eronarn, I wasn't ever fond of 'distortion' as an explanation for +ev
20:41:10 <Cryp71c_> I suppose its better than any other option available.
20:41:35 <Cryp71c_> Eronarn, and I liked your idea for how to make scale mutations, and would produce a nice variety, but be vastly overcomplicated for implementation.
20:42:45 <Eronarn> so implement it in a different way, it's hardly the only option for ending up with a scale distribution like that
20:43:20 <DrPraetor> I wonder how many levels of confusing touch it'd take to affect Asmodeus?
20:43:22 <DrPraetor> @??asmodeus
20:43:22 <Gretell> Asmodeus (13&) | Speed: 10 | HD: 17 | Health: 450 | AC/EV: 30/7 | Damage: 50 | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(272), 05hellfire, 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 15000 | Sp: b.fire, hellfire, demon, greater demon, b.draining, teleport self.
20:43:36 <TGW> stacking it doesn't change naything
20:43:46 <DrPraetor> Except how many times you get to hit him with it :)
20:43:58 <TGW> fair enough
20:44:00 <DrPraetor> @??ice dragon
20:44:00 <Gretell> ice dragon (16D) | Speed: 10 | HD: 12 | Health: 60-120 | AC/EV: 10/8 | Damage: 17, 17, 17 | Flags: cold-blooded, fly | Res: 06magic(48), 02cold++, 03poison | Vul: 04fire | XP: 1226.
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20:47:07 <doy> @??pit fiend
20:47:07 <Gretell> Pit Fiend (071) | Speed: 8 | HD: 19 | Health: 76-171 | AC/EV: 17/5 | Damage: 28, 21, 21 | Flags: 05demonic, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(304), 05hellfire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 1874.
20:48:04 <DrPraetor> Incidentally, what is our feeling about scumming spells for practice?  b/c the inability to scum Fullsome Distil in order to boost my necro is getting annoying.
20:48:55 <murphy_slaw> Is there really a shortage of corpses?
20:49:31 <DrPraetor> Woot!
20:49:32 <DrPraetor> L - a wand of healing (5)
20:49:45 <DrPraetor> murphy_slaw - to get my necro up to the high teens?  Yes :)
20:51:45 <DrPraetor> Ooh, there should be a god of wasps and ugly things.  He lets you lay eggs in corpses, and he lets you turn into an ugly thing of various colors.
20:51:54 <DrPraetor> Random color?
20:53:05 <DrPraetor> Actually, no, ugly things are the product of the "mad wizards guild".  So ugly-thing-form should come from a chaos magic god.
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20:54:30 <DrPraetor> Oh, that's cute.  Frightened monsters kill things that get in their way while trying to run from you.  Is that new in 0.6?
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21:14:36 <DrPraetor> Vehumet!  While praying, he turns you into a color-coded ugly thing when you do corresponding elemental damage.
21:14:46 <CIA-40> 03Enne * r86be9547e90a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (tilesdl.cc travel.cc): [986] Fix tiles autotravel delay on last step.
21:14:48 <CIA-40> 03Enne * r676faac2860c 10/crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: [989] Fix beam in tiles when targeting player.
21:14:54 <DrPraetor> Regardless of source, although of course this is much easier with Cj.
21:15:32 <TGW> can we at least pretend veh cares about summoners?
21:15:57 <DrPraetor> No.
21:16:04 <GrimmSweeper> He does care. =)
21:16:22 <TGW> people seem to forget a lot
21:16:24 <DrPraetor> If Vehumet is going to be god of both, he needs two entirely different power progressions.
21:16:27 <TGW> see also: range increase
21:16:34 <TGW> DrPraetor: not really
21:16:47 <DrPraetor> Oh, did my range increase go in?
21:16:51 * DrPraetor dances.
21:17:09 <TGW> veh has increased range for a few months
21:17:17 <DrPraetor> I didn't even notice :)
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21:17:32 <TGW> and someone forgot to make it matter to summoners
21:17:38 <DrPraetor> It's nice that people are listening to what I propose.
21:17:56 <DrPraetor> Well, I suggested that he modify all your summoning spells to place the summons via smite targeting, but apparently that was... not done.
21:18:26 <DrPraetor> Months, seriously?
21:18:36 <TGW> yes
21:18:41 <TGW> also: summons have a range of 2
21:18:42 <DrPraetor> Oh, while I was writing my thesis.  Right.
21:18:51 <GrimmSweeper> DrPraetor: That would be well beyond broken. =)
21:19:05 <TGW> increasing to 3 would be useful
21:19:12 <DrPraetor> He doesn't do that?
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21:34:40 <DrPraetor> Ooh, war chants!  Just what I wanted for my birthday.
21:44:58 <CIA-40> 03pointless_ * r2b0a1bcd2fa1 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Fix [997] mummy death curse related crashes
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21:54:27 <DrPraetor> ??vehumet
21:59:17 <TGW> he does not
21:59:27 <TGW> and henzell is taking some alone time
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22:10:51 <Cryp71c_> rar
22:12:07 <Cryp71c_> Building a specific list of scale muts on the DS brainstorm page, welcoming any feedback.
22:20:17 <DrPraetor> Does Xtahua's dragon hide do anything cute (yet)?
22:20:32 <TGW> no
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22:28:54 <DrPraetor> Have I mentioned that it should turn randart when enchant-armoured?
22:35:51 <Cryp71c> Technically an unrandart would make more sense, like the sparkling dragon armour
22:36:40 <sorear> but... there is no sparkling dragon armor
22:37:17 <sorear> DrPraetor: should Saint Roka's dragon hide do anything cute?
22:37:41 <Cryp71c> sorear, sorry, shiny dragon armour
22:37:50 <Cryp71c> Roka's a dragon? :P
22:37:54 <Cryp71c> never knew that...
22:38:48 <sorear> if you polymorph a unique into a dragon or troll, they will leave unique hides
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22:40:18 <Cryp71c> ohhhh, that's interesting.
22:40:31 <Cryp71c> Is there any extra danger from a dragon-formed saint roka?
22:40:37 <Cryp71c> aside from the occasional breath of fire?
22:40:57 <sorear> the occasional breath of cold and poison gas, the resistances, the AC...
22:41:10 <sorear> the smiting... the followers...
22:41:19 <doy> roka shouldn't be able to smite as a dragon
22:41:34 <doy> i'd think beogh would take issue with a dragon follower
22:41:46 <sorear> I don't know if he actually can
22:41:51 <Cryp71c> As a side note, is Tough Skin being dropped, or revamped? I saw something on the DS Brainstorming page about its future.
22:42:06 <sorear> now that I think about it, golden dragons are M_SPELLCASTER and would overwrite roka's spells anyway
22:42:12 <sorear> unlike normal dragons
22:42:17 <CIA-40> 03doy * r62b4fad98c1a 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: debug info for random monster spawns
22:42:19 <CIA-40> 03doy * rbaa04042e1e5 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: fix arena monster vetoing for abyss monsters
22:42:21 <CIA-40> 03doy * r1aab39368fff 10/crawl-ref/source/ (8 files): abyss modifications for sprint
22:42:23 <CIA-40> 03doy * r53bd1ccafe47 10/crawl-ref/source/ (message.cc stash.cc tags.cc tags.h): bump major version, to make sure things don't conflict with 0.6 saves
22:43:16 <due> Hellooo.
22:43:16 <sorear> (why do special abilities even exist?  they're like spells, but with extra code duplication)
22:53:02 <due> And annoying too.
22:58:03 <due> Today's Wikipedia AoD was "Sholes and something", I went "They misspelt Shoals!"
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22:59:53 <doy> hey, henzell's back
22:59:57 <sorear> \o/
22:59:58 <Henzell> sorear: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
23:00:02 <sorear> !messages
23:00:02 <Henzell> (1/2) doy said (6d 10h 11m 49s ago): how's that demonspawn stuff coming?
23:00:04 <sorear> !messages
23:00:04 <Henzell> (1/1) doy said (8h 52m 34s ago): what do we want to do about save versions between branches? right now master is at 16.5, and 0.6 is at 16.6, and having these overlap seems bad
23:00:23 <doy> !tell napkin sprint should be able to be run directly from master now, just ./crawl -sprint
23:00:23 <Henzell> doy: OK, I'll let napkin know.
23:00:27 <due> Henzell yay
23:01:32 <greensnark> doy: What's the POE::IRC incantation to notice when disconnected?
23:01:32 <Henzell> greensnark: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
23:01:35 <greensnark> !message
23:01:39 <greensnark> !messages
23:01:39 <Henzell> (1/1) Napkin said (9h 34m 57s ago): Lots of fresh, new core-dumps await you :D
23:01:43 <due> greensnark! <3
23:01:56 <doy> greensnark: "use Bot::BasicBot"
23:01:57 <doy> d:
23:02:18 <greensnark> Hm, let me look at that
23:02:27 <greensnark> Was that not around when sartak wrote Henzell? :)
23:02:48 <doy> more likely, sartak wrote henzell before he really knew perl
23:02:48 <doy> (:
23:03:56 <sorear> it shouldn't be too hard to just rewrite henzell
23:04:04 -!- jld has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
23:04:07 <sorear> it's one of the smallest useful bots I know
23:04:08 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev
23:04:29 <greensnark> basicbot looks much simpler than using poco::irc directly
23:04:35 <doy> it really is
23:04:52 <sorear> does much of anyone even use POE these days?
23:04:56 <doy> yes
23:05:21 <doy> poe is still pretty useful, just fairly low-level for the kinds of things people tend to want to do
23:06:00 * sorear files this away in his "salt to use when reading mlehmann" folder
23:06:18 <doy> why would you read mlehmann
23:06:58 <sorear> because documentation
23:07:53 <due> doc...u...mentation? What is this?
23:08:39 <greensnark> Something that happens to other people
23:09:52 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
23:10:43 <sorear> due: something mlehmann can't stop himself from making political
23:20:29 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev
23:34:37 -!- TGW has left ##crawl-dev
23:35:19 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920]]
23:43:33 -!- GrimmSweeper is now known as GrimmSleeper
23:43:34 <CIA-40> 03Enne 07stone_soup-0.6 * r7d701b90c7b5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (defines.h tilesdl.cc tilesdl.h): Fix targeting mode performance issues in tiles.
23:43:35 <CIA-40> 03Enne 07stone_soup-0.6 * r1e9b3d397c64 10/crawl-ref/source/tilesdl.cc: Add a maximum FPS rate limiter for tiles.
23:43:38 <CIA-40> 03Enne 07stone_soup-0.6 * rda71d06be216 10/crawl-ref/docs/ (FAQ.html tiles_help.txt): Update tiles documentation about lag issues.
23:43:39 <CIA-40> 03Enne 07stone_soup-0.6 * re19f8e3009f6 10/crawl-ref/source/tiletex.cc: [941] Fix tiles issue with umlauts in the path.
23:43:40 <CIA-40> 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r6fe49153da7f 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/godspeak.txt: Tiny Xom speech tweak.
23:43:43 <CIA-40> 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r33934b6bcb05 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/FAQ.txt: Update FAQ.txt, explain about FAQ2html.pl in introductory comment.
23:43:45 <CIA-40> 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * rbf7be8b93d40 10/crawl-ref/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Some more FAQ tweaks, use italics for mentioned txt files in the html.
23:43:46 <CIA-40> 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r50250c745dae 10/crawl-ref/ (INSTALL.txt source/message.cc): Tweak tutorial's long -More- line.
23:43:49 <CIA-40> 03due 07stone_soup-0.6 * rd927711b640d 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Add missing Donald speech for Vehumet.
23:43:50 <CIA-40> 03Keskitalo 07stone_soup-0.6 * rc247dafcd60f 10/crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: Mention chaoticness when looking at monsters, like mindless.
23:43:51 <CIA-40> 03Keskitalo 07stone_soup-0.6 * r49bd4036905a 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Fix Killer Klown chaoticness check.
23:43:52 <CIA-40> 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r68da8375da36 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/FAQ.txt: Fix overly long FAQ entry, improve FAQ entry on labyrinths.
23:43:56 <CIA-40> 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * rb21a2a579eb3 10/crawl-ref/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Handle the FAQ's labyrinth entry's numbered list correctly in the html.
23:43:56 <CIA-40> 03due 07stone_soup-0.6 * r5dadf81abd21 10/crawl-ref/CREDITS.txt: Update credits to better reflect Napkin and rax's roles within DCSS.
23:43:58 <CIA-40> 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.6 * r3168a17dba5e 10/crawl-ref/ (settings/init.txt source/initfile.cc): Set default hp_warning to 30% (dpeg, usability).
23:44:00 <CIA-40> 03due 07stone_soup-0.6 * r3fd9338975ff 10/crawl-ref/source/l_item.cc: Improvement on the identified wrapper. (greensnark)
23:44:02 <CIA-40> 03due 07stone_soup-0.6 * r8fffac619ae5 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/clua/lm_trove.lua: Use new item identified wrapper for troves.
23:44:03 <CIA-40> 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r2e4de0bbb730 10/crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: Use env.map_knowledge instead of env.grid in describe_floor.
23:44:04 <CIA-40> 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * rd49571b342ff 10/crawl-ref/source/view.cc: Fix env.map_knowledge being filled inappropriately in the abyss.
23:44:07 <CIA-40> 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r28496b0692ed 10/crawl-ref/source/show.cc: Don't copy clouds to map_knowledge.
23:44:08 <CIA-40> 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r439cf434a359 10/crawl-ref/ (INSTALL.txt docs/develop/tiles_creation.txt): Update tiles creation guide.
23:44:10 <CIA-40> 03Enne 07stone_soup-0.6 * r8ffac1cbbd04 10/crawl-ref/source/ (tilesdl.cc travel.cc): [986] Fix tiles autotravel delay on last step.
23:44:12 <CIA-40> 03Enne 07stone_soup-0.6 * r05f7ba1e02bb 10/crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: [989] Fix beam in tiles when targeting player.
23:44:14 <CIA-40> 03pointless_ 07stone_soup-0.6 * r2c7ca13c4857 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Fix [997] mummy death curse related crashes
23:44:18 <CIA-40> 03due 07stone_soup-0.6 * r7fa43e72ce73 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Framework for debugging portal vaults using 'x-d'.
23:44:20 <CIA-40> 03due 07stone_soup-0.6 * rea6ef2b8d743 10/crawl-ref/source/ (cmd-keys.h command.cc): Change portal debug command to x-" (jpeg).
23:44:24 <CIA-40> 03due 07stone_soup-0.6 * r0bf1c7040e80 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/clua/lm_trove.lua: Further debug functionality for troves.
23:44:25 <CIA-40> 03due 07stone_soup-0.6 * r1a6ba99e9c24 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/clua/lm_trove.lua: Test suite for debugging Trove portal vaults.
23:44:26 <CIA-40> 03due 07stone_soup-0.6 * rec8394522dc3 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/ (clua/lm_trove.lua des/portals/trove.des): More test suites for sorting out issues with troves.
23:45:38 <Eronarn> whoah
23:45:46 <due> doy: Thanks.
23:45:57 <due> doy: I've worked out the issue with jewellery is the nil/0 thing, I think.
23:46:03 <doy> sweet
23:46:07 * due needs to look into it further.
23:46:21 <due> And then I'll use my test suite on every possible item it  can accept.
23:46:32 <due> I've also worked out how to see shops into the stash tracker :)
23:47:21 <due> *seed.
23:47:30 <due> (They don't in portal vaults, was my problem.)
23:49:30 <doy> Master branch on CDO updated to: 0.6.0-a2-501-g0bf1c70 (16.6)
23:49:46 <due> !tell greensnark Can you look at do_identified in l_item.cc for me now? I think it's sane.
23:49:46 <Henzell> due: OK, I'll let greensnark know.
23:55:03 <DrPraetor> ??ancient champion
23:55:04 <Henzell> I don't have a page labeled ancient_champion in my learndb.
23:55:08 <DrPraetor> @??ancient champion
23:55:08 <Gretell> unknown monster: "ancient champion"
23:55:31 <DrPraetor> Okay, anyone want to fill me in?  I'm getting a lot of grinding noises... treasure?  Where?
23:56:34 <doy> !vault mu_ancient_champion
23:56:35 <Henzell> Couldn't find mu_ancient_champion in the Crawl source tree
23:56:41 <doy> oh, right, 0.6
23:56:58 <DrPraetor> Ooooh, I wouldn't found it by climbing back upstairs.
23:57:09 <DrPraetor> s/n't/v'e/