00:17:21 Twinge-: How goes updating the windows build? 00:17:46 Twinge-: What sort of problems are you having, out of curiosity? 00:20:23 Not any major problems as such, but I'm getting a handufl of files eternally showing up as unstaged changes that won't go away. Again. 00:20:47 Weird. 00:21:08 Also, I'm getting errors after git pull on two symbols TILE_MI_SLING_BULLET_SILVER0 and TILE_MI_SLING_BULLET_STEEL0 00:21:21 "not declared in this scope" 00:21:29 Am i not generating something right? 00:35:09 -!- Ero has joined ##crawl-dev 00:45:23 -!- raydarken has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:47:11 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 00:47:24 good morning 00:47:30 'mornin 00:47:51 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:47:53 how's the ipad support coming along? 00:48:10 I have successfully removed SDL from tilesdl.cc 00:48:10 !seen Keskitalo 00:48:10 I last saw Keskitalo at Thu Feb 25 21:22:33 2010 UTC (9h 25m 37s ago) saying I need to get this game to V:8, so I can see the new end in action. :) on ##crawl-dev. 00:48:15 ixtli: yay 00:48:30 however, i still need to do that to two more files, then work on modularizing opengl 00:48:34 Which shouldn't be hard. 00:48:43 Then I think I'll try and have someone commit my local ipad branch 00:48:55 Because then enne and others can start working on like directx specific code, etc... 00:49:38 I'm having a little problem, atm. master is giving me build errors with the xcodeproj 00:49:47 * sorear will make someone else review the branch first 00:49:51 xcodeproj has never worked for me 00:50:00 I just use the makefile 00:50:22 yeah, it works with the makefile, but i'm gonna have to use the xcodeproj for my port, so.. 00:50:28 sorear: Would you like to look at it? :) 00:50:48 ixtli: I'm not that masochistic 00:51:17 ouch 00:51:42 well w/e i think i'll just use the makefile until i absolutely have to use the xcodeproj 00:56:57 sorear: You're the one with objections though. Sure you don't wanna look at it? 00:57:10 I'm open to alternative approaches. 01:10:58 ixtli: maybe you can make your changes public, so sorear (or someone else) can have a look without committing to it? :) 01:11:14 im sort of a git newb, but I've made a local branch 01:11:43 should i just paste a diff file somewhere? that seems a little masochistic, honestly ;-) 01:12:19 that would work; more elaborately, you could push to github or the likes 01:14:44 yeah, a public repository somewhere would be best 01:16:08 ixtli: I don't have objections per se, I just have very unique views on good style 01:16:32 "objects are evil!" 01:16:33 d: 01:16:36 which makes yours a valuable opinion :) 01:16:51 objects aren't evil, just overused 01:16:53 The thing is, that I really hate over-objectifying. 01:16:55 yeah. 01:17:07 But I think that I'm doing The Right Thing here. 01:17:13 I'll github this in a few. 01:17:14 'class actor' is the best thing to happen to Crawl since the great enumification 01:20:15 the nice thing with crawl is that even if you don't do The Right Thing, you have a good chance of making it better :) 01:20:23 :D 01:20:38 So, being a huge git noob, which github repo do I fork? 01:20:44 doy/crawl-ref ? 01:20:55 you shouldn't 01:21:01 make a brand new repo 01:21:17 kk 01:21:18 forking is for when two repos on github are supposed to be related 01:21:32 but your repo isn't related to anything on github - it's a child of the sourceforge one 01:21:59 I see. 01:25:14 -!- Ero has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:30:17 -!- permagreen has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:59 03yobbobandana * r20a5d6618fde 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/trove.des: Fix spelling of "brilliance". 01:33:00 who? 01:33:10 yobbo 01:33:17 oh, doh 01:33:39 part of ghost speech breakage has to do with all ghosts having genus MONS_PLAYER_GHOST; I'd like to make all ghosts have genus MONS_GHOST -- is there precedence for a non-actual-monster MONS_? 01:33:53 precedent? 01:33:58 yes 01:33:59 03yobbobandana 07stone_soup-0.6 * r8bebd0d93c11 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/trove.des: Fix spelling of "brilliance". 01:34:03 ancient, ancient precedence 01:34:22 MONS_HUMAN, MONS_ELF, used to be exactly that 01:34:39 sometime in late 2.x they were statted and made legal polymorph targets 01:34:49 also, MONS_MERGED_SLIME_CREATURE 01:35:04 but HUMAN is more appropriate to the genus problem 01:35:29 I was hoping to grep for places that need special treatment 01:36:07 there are large gaps in the MONS_ enum 01:36:19 a tiny hole won't hurt 01:44:26 there should be a flag M_DUMMY or something 01:45:57 Moin guys 01:47:07 good morning Napkin 01:47:20 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 01:47:21 hey rob :) 01:47:34 did you yred fix make it into 0.6 yet? 01:47:37 *your 01:48:47 yes 01:49:08 \o/ 01:49:14 Cool :) 01:49:32 re this type of question, there must be some nice git invocation that lets me review which of my commits have made it to 0.6? 01:50:08 I hope the fix actually works; I had trouble setting up the bug in wizard mode 01:50:19 there is a command to show, which commits are in the one branch and in the other - but not sure it'll show the cherry-picks 01:50:39 I already started a char to test :) 01:50:59 yay 01:51:20 i think it was git cherry? 01:51:23 yeah 01:51:40 there's the pr0 :) 01:51:46 it'll give misleading output for conflicts though 01:51:47 Hi doy :) 01:52:02 i think conflicting patches will show up as though they're in both branches 01:52:12 or rather 01:52:21 and with different commit hashes, right? 01:52:23 as though they haven't been picked into the other branch 01:52:32 well, all the commits have different hashes 01:52:46 will git cherry help at all then? 01:53:02 are any kickers handy? vandal has just gone into a "omgnoes my xp" screed 01:53:35 you kept the commit messages intact, right? maybe a compare of those with git log --pretty=oneline could help? 01:53:44 if you do "git cherry origin/stone_soup-0.6 origin/master", it'll list commits from master that have been picked with a leading -, and ones that haven't with a leading + 01:54:01 ah, nice 01:54:04 but it'll assume ones with conflicts haven't been picked 01:54:10 since it compares the actual diff 01:54:13 which will be different 01:54:32 but there's not much to do about that 01:54:46 your commit messages contain the hash of the original commit, right? 01:54:49 yes 01:55:13 i think i forgot to do that for two or three of the first ones 01:55:19 then it should be easy to script a little thingy to marke the commits in master as "ported" or something like that 01:55:21 but for almost all of them, yeah 01:55:31 and yeah, it wouldn't be too hard 01:55:39 i'm fine with git cherry though 01:55:40 (: 01:55:43 :) 01:55:55 you're doing a great job, doy :) 01:55:59 yes sorear that is a wonderful idea, kick me because I don't like a bad game mechanic 01:56:06 (mostly because i know which patches were the conflict ones, since i was the one resolving the conflict) 01:56:09 (: 01:56:10 and again, thank you very much for updating CDO as well! 01:56:38 Vandal: there are productive ways to go about this 01:56:59 It is ##crawl, I can moan about getting the worst possible brand on a Triple Sword if I want 01:57:24 yay, "&M ghost" gives me dead monster warnings 01:57:46 Vandal: keep it in ##crawl, please 01:59:36 I could use some critics for http://crawl.develz.org - especially about the upper 3 link categories on the right. Anyone? 01:59:55 *criticism 02:14:25 News being a sub-section of the blog seems a little odd with them both being main headers. Possibly Have news as a large button and 'Development Blog' as a text item under 'The Game'. It is unclear what 'Howto' is actually for until you actually click on it. Documentation would be best on-site I think; Probably an indexed html of the manual with a link to the Quickstart at the top. Ideally screenshots should be on-site too; you have 02:14:43 to navigate back to the site any time you click on one of those links, which is subpar. 02:16:24 I'm also thinking the sidebar itself should be next to the main body instead of set to the far right; it stretches things pretty awkwardly on a widescreen monitor. The floating 'powered by' thing at the bottom is kind of annoying, but I imagine that's a requirement for using the layout or whatever? (Oh, Development Blog should be under, well, 'Development', not The Game :P) 02:17:14 anyone know what's the intended difference between "default player ghost" and "player ghost" in monspeak.txt? 02:19:14 by: I've never worked out what the default prefix is. 02:21:43 it seems rewriting mon-speak.cc is more realistic than debugging it 02:22:26 thanks for your comments, Twinge :) 02:23:31 moving the blog our into a minor category (The Game) is a bad idea, because it'll get lost there and the blog is kinda like the second important feature of that page. 02:23:40 *out into a minor category 02:24:39 Good point about the "Howto" link 02:24:52 but that's always with links with that name :D 02:25:01 "Howto play Online" could be an option 02:25:37 Possibly true. I don't really like the semi-redundancy both being considered important points though; maybe News is unnecessary? And wherever the Blog is, it should be a little more specific if possible. It's good to know what you're clicking on before you click it in general. 02:26:03 03j-p-e-g * rb24a0f0801cb 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-dngn.txt: Add a couple of placeholders to dngn.png. 02:26:05 03j-p-e-g * rd4bce2e600c2 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-input.cc: Update copyright information. 02:26:32 -!- Twinge- is now known as Twinge 02:27:14 "News" has the idea of separating the stories & play-testing posts from the more important news a casual visitor would like to see (like version released, changes to the servers, etc) 02:27:40 I get you point though - and we're not sure yet whether to keep it or not 02:28:26 Napkin: there should probably be some change in the buttons when you click on them, that is, the "Blog" button should darken if you're at http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/blog 02:28:34 you think "Development Blog" would make it more obvious? 02:28:57 Napkin: Just as a small amount of feedback to the user 02:29:30 hehe 02:29:55 Same with the little rectangles that darken on mouseover in the lower sections 02:30:19 yes, that would be nice - but there are 4 shades of grey in use already - and I don't want to steal focus from the Downloads link - "must be most eye-catching" as dpeg put it 02:30:25 Vandal: I am sorry, I forgot about the effect ##crawl has on my emotional state 02:30:46 It is ok. I don't need to complain so much even in there 02:31:16 Napkin: I think the most common way of handling that is to keep the button that is clicked in its mouseover state. 02:31:33 Napkin: Though with the color scheme going on there, I can see how that might be a bit confusing. 02:31:41 yeah 02:31:54 could be worth a try though 02:32:00 you think "Development Blog" would make it more obvious, Twinge? 02:32:10 03by * r65a51000cb17 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h mon-data.h): Create dummy monster MONS_GHOST as ghost genus. 02:33:54 03neunon * r8f695f2296d0 10/crawl-ref/source/makefile: makefile: fix '-gcc-name' and '-gxx-name' passed to ICC 02:35:16 Napkin: Yes. That's pretty clear. 02:36:27 Napkin: also in #11 of the playtesting post, it seems like wordpress is eating things inside greater/lessthans 02:36:45 link me, ixtli 02:38:03 Napkin: er sorry, yeah http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/play-testing-a-great-big-list almost at the bottom under "Other Changes" #11 Use “sqldbm.h” instead of , as it’s a local header file 02:38:35 That could just be in the post semantics. I don't really know much about wordpress. 02:38:41 got it, thanks :) 02:38:44 :D 02:38:51 Alright, finnaly going to play in CDO. Wish me luck. 02:39:32 Use "sqldbm.h" instead of , as it's a local header file. <- that's correct, right, ixtli? 02:39:40 yeah 02:40:40 thanks :) 02:43:07 Madtrixr: That's where all the cool kids hang out 02:43:41 Twinge: Duly noted 02:44:55 Speaking of CDO, I was wondering if there was a way to disable the underscored, persistent messages in the development versions of the game? 02:45:06 clear_messages = true 02:45:14 Oh, thanks 02:45:35 That was simpler than I thought it would be 02:45:44 the option's been available for ages, but we only recently made persistance the default state 02:46:02 ... 02:46:24 I guess my autoidentify stopped working after ircd-seven 02:54:50 -!- sorear has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:55:16 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 02:56:11 -!- sorear has quit [Client Quit] 02:57:06 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 02:57:12 -!- Xardas-3 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:58:40 -!- sorear has quit [Client Quit] 02:58:53 -!- scarf has joined ##crawl-dev 02:58:57 -!- scarf has quit [Changing host] 02:58:57 -!- scarf has joined ##crawl-dev 02:59:42 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 02:59:56 -!- sorear has quit [Client Quit] 03:00:36 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 03:00:39 -!- tinyrodent has joined ##crawl-dev 03:00:50 anyone familiar with unnethack here? 03:01:01 alright, i sent an update to the mailing list with an actual todo list and timeline for release... people should let me know if i'm forgetting anything 03:01:03 * bhaak raises hand 03:01:08 tinyrodent: bhaak hangs out here 03:01:09 there we go. 03:01:22 cool. just wondering what's up with dragon scale mails 03:01:22 bhaak = Patric 03:01:37 i wished for blessed +2 gray dragon scale mail and it said no such thing exists 03:01:47 now I remember why I was writing an irssi replacement 03:01:55 such a user-hostile configuration system 03:02:48 tinyrodent: probably the wrong channel (try #nethack or #unnethack), but dragons are randomized in Un 03:03:07 it's more "ridiculously undocumented" than "user-hostile" 03:03:11 tinyrodent: they are renamend, colors randomized and you can only wish for a specific dsm (e.g. "stone dragon scale mail") if you identified it 03:03:21 (although it could be argued that those are equivalent) 03:03:28 I probably went a bit overboard. :) 03:03:46 bhaak: makes that first wish a bit tougher :( 03:04:54 tinyrodent: that was the intention. but everybody is afraid of the disintegrating dragon now :) 03:05:47 -!- Xardas-3 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.0.17/2010021501]] 03:05:48 bhaak: I guess not having a priori knowledge of 'D' breath weapons makes disint res that much more valuable 03:05:54 have you nerfed reflection? 03:06:03 no, not yet 03:06:29 magic resistance also isn't changed 03:06:37 bhaak: it's early game yet not sure what would make a good wish. i found a blessed lamp in mine town. already have mithril armor so maybe a cloak of magic res? 03:07:18 tinyrodent: wishes from djinnis may no longer be magical objects 03:07:38 although that only rules out DSMs, but not dragon scales 03:07:40 ?? what on earth does that leave 03:07:40 I don't have a page labeled what_on_earth_does_that_leave in my learndb. 03:07:41 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r5cf4d2d8f894 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-dngn.txt: Add a couple of placeholders to dngn.png. 03:07:46 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r273230b1cbe8 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-input.cc: Update copyright information. 03:07:48 lol 03:07:50 03neunon 07stone_soup-0.6 * r754f844809f4 10/crawl-ref/source/makefile: makefile: fix '-gcc-name' and '-gxx-name' passed to ICC 03:07:51 03by * r76b145ae113c 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-speak.cc: Allow player ghosts to speak. 03:07:52 03by * r493128680ea5 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-speak.cc: Optionally look up ghost speech by best ghost skill. 03:07:55 03N78291 * r8e0425b22924 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Skill specific speech for player ghosts 03:09:07 bhaak: it's certainly not clear from the prompt that magical items would be excluded. it simply says "For what do you wish?" 03:09:20 maybe it should say "For what non magical item do you wish?" 03:09:37 tinyrodent: the djinni will tell you about it as soon as you try :) 03:09:49 tinyrodent: what do you think this is, crawl? 03:09:49 d: 03:10:10 crawl's just a subset of nethack :-D 03:10:50 bhaak: i can't really think of anything useful that's non magical. suggestions? 03:11:41 tinyrodent: tinning kit, oilskin sack, a musical instrument, a stethoscope? 03:13:00 wtf? 03:13:17 irssi has stopped keeping separate logfiles for my channels 03:13:25 it's all going into '*.log' 03:13:30 without channel markers, mind 03:13:34 heh 03:13:42 hehe, that's why I only use irssi as IRC proxy :) 03:14:05 bhaak: what do you use normally 03:14:21 sorear: ERC, although that's not for the faint of heart 03:14:23 bhaak: already have some of those. maybe a backup lance in case mine breaks? 03:14:48 I used that for a while 03:14:57 I wish I kept notes on why I stopped 03:15:42 tinyrodent: that would be useful too. there is no change in the code that let's lances be generated more often if you're a knight. I wanted to to that some time 03:15:56 hmm, it's logging all my non-freenode chats to separate files 03:17:27 hihi, yesterday, greensnark declared me ASSIMILATED after he learnt that I played 100 crawl games. Right now, it rather feels the other way around :-D 03:17:33 i really like irssi's interface, and the fact that it's perl scriptable 03:17:33 bhaak: i guess i'll for the lance then. if i'd known how weak the wish would be i would have kept the magic lamp... 03:18:01 tinyrodent: that's nethack. you die and learn 03:18:12 but i really would like an irc client that wasn't so broken in other ways 03:18:50 bhaak: thanks for unnethack nice to see the game updated. g'night 03:19:01 ERC is emacs lisp scriptable. that's almost as scary as perl scriptable :) 03:19:05 tinyrodent: gn8 03:19:11 perl >> elisp 03:19:31 lisp >> $almost_any_language >> elisp :) 03:19:44 (: 03:22:14 -!- scarf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22:19 -!- scarf has joined ##crawl-dev 03:23:14 ixtli, better now? could you have another look and feedback on the colors? 03:23:20 -!- tinyrodent has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:23:53 Twinge, is it more obvious now what the difference between "Game News" and "Development Blog" is? 03:25:30 Napkin: you axed the index page as it was on SF and have redone it in the blog theme? 03:25:35 and now Google won't tell me why irssi is logging where it is 03:25:55 maybe the mere existance of *.log is the problem 03:25:57 -!- sorear has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:27:22 yes, bhaak 03:27:36 we switch.. 2 nights ago, i think :) 03:27:53 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 03:28:12 -!- sorear has quit [Client Quit] 03:31:20 Napkin: Colors are good :D 03:32:02 Napkin: Except when you view a post ( like http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/play-testing-a-great-big-list ) it doesn't change the color of the "development blog" button 03:33:18 that's just a css issue. The class is correct: class="page_item page-item-607 current_page_parent" 03:33:19 yes, because that no longer the link/button you clicked ;) 03:33:26 not much I can do about that 03:34:06 what about clicking a news item in the "News" section - those are in the "blog" category as well - mark both "News" and "Blog" button dark? 03:34:16 let's keep it general :) 03:34:39 Napkin: yeah, that's better. And I'd probably go from #959595 to about #818181 for the Download link, to differentiate just a hair more. 03:34:53 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 03:35:14 ok it's working now. 03:35:16 http://bugs.irssi.org/index.php?do=details&task_id=533 03:35:46 the new freenode ircd tickled a latent "too much functionality" bug in my irssi 03:37:26 hooray 03:37:28 -!- Xardas-3 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:37:29 * due tickles sorear's bugs. 03:37:48 Okay, I'm off. 03:38:11 oerks, the random sub titles ... take some getting used to 03:38:18 hmm, still nothing about transmig fix :) 03:38:32 done, Twinge - thanks :) 03:38:41 bye due! 03:41:08 due: That was way too long to be a nap! 03:44:28 thanks, sorear - fixed here too now :) 03:46:04 doy: would you prefer a proper stat change fix (quite invasive), or the usual bug-prone stuff we've been doing so far? 03:46:14 for 0.6, that is 03:49:37 * sorear tries to not let rewriting irssi distract him from DS 03:50:43 by: i'd prefer the simplest thing that would work (so nothing invasive if at all possible) 03:51:03 ok, I'll give it a try 03:51:21 danger is that some other damage slips in 03:51:26 by: but this is also a fairly serious bug, and having it crop up again after release would be annoying, and would require more point releases, etc 03:51:45 so... see what you can come up with(: 03:52:39 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:53:47 Okay. I'm watching Zicher go through a labryinth, and jeez. 03:53:54 How hard was that to code? 03:54:24 -!- permagreen has quit [Quit: Welcome to the real world] 03:58:40 * sorear pastes 0.5.2 demonspawn() and all support code into stone_soup-0.6 03:58:55 chances of actually working estimated at 10% 04:02:31 How do you get a god gift? just make them really happy? 04:02:56 whoops, worng place. 04:02:58 my bad 04:06:03 doy: I should add a save compat shim, right? 04:07:08 which bug is this? 04:07:10 sorear: yes, don't break save compat unless absolutely necessary 04:07:48 934? 04:08:37 scarf: no, this is the "we never got around to finishing the demonspawn rewrite, so we need to revert it to the 0.5 state to avoid it being broken" issue 04:08:46 ah 04:08:57 and even just reverting is proving problematic? 04:09:22 shrug, ask sorear 04:09:23 (: 04:09:30 I can see how it could be 04:09:42 it's a little bit interesting 04:09:42 especially in a codebase like Crawl's 04:09:50 not going to call it problematic yet 04:14:49 -!- scarf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:15:20 -!- scarf has joined ##crawl-dev 04:22:23 03by * ra46073e40fd9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (misc.cc misc.h player.cc transform.cc transform.h): Fix merfolk entering water twice from ice form. 04:23:44 woah, it linked 04:27:55 woah woah it works 04:28:20 doy: http://ancardia.ath.cx/~stefanor/0001-Revert-demonspawn-to-0.5-system.patch 04:38:37 lolwut? Why is that significant? 04:42:21 because I want him to apply it 04:42:43 ah 04:45:21 night all 04:45:29 nigh 04:45:46 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:46:42 Wielding weapon of evasion does not update EV displayed (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=940) by hyperb 04:52:56 03j-p-e-g * r49824d7a8712 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Fix monsters flying over unknown traps detecting them. 04:52:57 03j-p-e-g * r92eda6797549 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Smart monsters and those native to a branch can cross shafts. 04:52:58 03j-p-e-g * r85dcf9459d22 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Stupid monsters will trigger shafts even if at home in a branch. 04:53:00 03j-p-e-g * r73e9bba8959b 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Shafts again: Also add friendly monsters into the mix. 04:53:02 03j-p-e-g * r1241d88fb003 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: traps.cc: Move shaft handling into trap->is_known(). 04:58:27 -!- scarf_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:31 -!- scarf has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:07:58 -!- scarf_ is now known as scarf 05:09:27 03by * r4e5a9f9199a1 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Redraw EV after wielding weapon of evasion. 05:21:55 -!- permagreen has joined ##crawl-dev 05:22:41 -!- ixtli has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:08 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 05:24:06 by: sorear: http://github.com/ixtli/crawl/tree/ipad 05:24:23 Lemme know if my gitfoo is poor. 05:30:44 Twinge: It was a 3 hour nap. 05:33:40 doy: WizLab loot balance is an essential for 0.6, I just looked atg it earlier and it is massively skeweed. :/ 05:33:41 !tell enne http://github.com/ixtli/crawl/tree/ipad so far i've factored out SDL deps from tilesdl.cc/h Lemme know what you think :) 05:33:41 ixtli: OK, I'll let enne know. 05:33:51 doy: Just hacing a shower, then troves, then wizlab loot. 05:33:52 "Tommy"? 05:34:46 "Tommy"? 05:35:02 Pinball wizard? 05:35:22 "Fix spelling of "brilliance". -tommy 05:36:20 Ah. 05:39:41 ixtli: thanks; you'll probably want to switch to spaces for indentation 05:39:41 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:40:21 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:21 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS development channel! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Ashenzari source: http://github.com/doy/crawlbot | due is semihere for the next few days. 05:44:40 by: figured tou might say that :) 05:44:51 s/tou/you 05:45:20 been using textmate recently which seems to default to tabs 05:46:42 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:53:38 due: That is not a nap. Naps should be 20-30 minutes, generally speaking, though 1.5 hours is acceptable and can still qualify as a nap. A 1 hour nap is worse for you than a 25 minute nap, and 3 hours is on into sleep territory; 2 full cycles isn't a nap anymore :) 05:54:33 -!- scarf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:55:22 -!- scarf has joined ##crawl-dev 05:55:44 03by * r0dd5236906c0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (16 files): Replace dynamic monster casts by actor::as_monster. 05:55:47 03by * rbba09e10f997 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/lua/autofight.lua: Some autofight improvements. 05:59:21 Maybe it's not that important, but there is a little mistake in the generated aptitudes.txt - it says (the part about EXP) "(...)Here 100 is the Human standard, and all other species (apart from Halfling, Kobold, Ogre) are slower." - according to aptitude table, it should be Halfling, Kobold and Hill Orc (Ogre has 110 exp and Hill Orc 100). 06:00:37 Man I even read that and didn't catch it :P Yeah, that should be fixed for 0.6. 06:03:17 03j-p-e-g * rae088f322698 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Give low-weight critters a chance to escape a shaft. 06:09:16 -!- mumblerit has joined ##crawl-dev 06:11:03 Twinge: Shut up. ;) 06:15:09 due: Between the snark is serious commentary; naps *should* be 20-30 minutes for best results. SCIENCE! 06:16:31 (If you want to get really fancy, you can live off 6 20 minutes naps a day; very difficult to adapt though, requires a lot of willpower to get through that initial phase) 06:21:27 eah. 06:21:31 One of my friends tried to get into that. 06:22:12 Twinge: But yeah, my afternoon naps are usually an hour to an hour and a half, max. Forty-five minutes mostly. 06:24:19 * Napkin agreed with due * 06:24:32 And I know what I am talking about! Nap-kin :-P 06:25:23 :D 06:25:24 Napking! 06:25:37 Sssshh - don't tell everybody ;> 06:25:47 :D 06:25:55 Narcoleptic Napkin, the Nap king 06:26:41 it's not that extreme yet :-P 06:26:48 :D 06:27:02 I like to look at it as one of my good side ;) 06:27:09 *sides 06:29:00 03by * r2c89bfe10b53 10/crawl-ref/source/ (tilereg.cc tilereg.h): Make CRTRegion update crawl_view.termsz on resize. 06:29:01 03by * r825009ffe43c 10/crawl-ref/docs/template/apt-tmpl.txt: aptitudes.txt: correct experience explanation. (Xardas-3) 06:29:34 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:53 -!- scarf has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30:02 -!- scarf has joined ##crawl-dev 06:44:37 -!- permagreen has quit [Quit: Welcome to the real world] 06:48:16 by: around? 06:51:00 why is "of holy wrath" converted to "hlywrath" for artefacts? 06:51:17 *all weapons? 06:55:05 yes 06:55:13 no idea, where? 06:55:36 somebody trying to get it into 8 characters? 06:55:53 return replace_all_of(weapon_brand_name(item, false), " of", ""); 06:56:06 std::string ego_type_string in itemname.cc 06:56:27 I think that doens't do what I think it did. 06:56:41 How do I properly strip off the " of" star of a string? 06:58:12 some_str.substr(3)? 06:58:34 danke 07:02:00 is std::string(const char*) correct? 07:02:16 My brain, 'tis broken. 07:04:33 does it work? 07:04:56 yeah 07:05:35 then I'd say yes 07:06:39 yay 07:06:52 Gonna push this now then sleep, it's half fixed, but I'll need to do the rest tomorrow 07:06:59 make sure not to memleak the original char*, though 07:07:07 Zaba: how so? 07:07:25 return std::string(weapon_brand_name(item, false)).substr(4); 07:07:38 well, it's not a problem if you're passing it something that's on the stack, of course 07:07:49 you can initialize a string with a contst char* yes 07:07:52 Well, pushed, please feel free to fix/revert if I broke something ;) 07:08:28 sleep, night :0 07:08:44 !tell doy Not quite fixed Troves, but almost there, hooray! 07:08:44 due: OK, I'll let doy know. 07:08:55 by: Thanks for the flavour fix, it makes more sense now. 07:09:36 03due * r453b14152a4e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/portals/trove.des itemname.cc): Fix dLua item ego_type wrapper, Trove shop pluses. 07:11:50 due: good night 07:13:23 Does Animate Dead still causes crash, or was it fixed? 07:25:58 Dammit! I feel distinctly robbed. I don't like the statue-bazaar vault at all :( 07:26:38 Twinge, fixed bottom banner removed. Also caused a lot of trouble with IE (lags like hell) & smartphones (draws the banner once right on top and in the middle of the text). 07:38:50 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 07:40:28 by: Thanks for fixing the merfolk boots thing 07:41:13 no problem; I don't think it had anything to do with Che, btw 07:42:02 We should totally fix stat calc for 0.7 07:42:13 03by * rf004eb0dbfa7 10/crawl-ref/source/command.cc: Properly encode unicode book glyph in command help. 07:42:23 03by * r0fac1db9f7c3 10/crawl-ref/source/ (invent.cc showsymb.cc showsymb.h tutorial.cc): Fix Ctrl-X display of unicode items. 07:42:33 It's amusing how a small change in movement or transforms can blow up stats currently :) 07:44:15 yes; that really should be done properly 07:47:22 would it be too inefficient to record only base stats, rather than base + current? 07:47:29 *base and current 07:47:35 no 07:47:47 but it's a pretty large change 07:48:39 Yes, should go in 0.7, too much change for 0.6 07:50:06 Kraken tentacles restricted to water are so pathetic :P 07:51:48 @??kraken 07:51:48 kraken (11X) | Speed: 10 | HD: 16 | Health: 160-256 | AC/EV: 20/0 | Damage: 50 | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(64) | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 1856 | Sp: spawn tentacles, ink cloud. 07:55:17 is there a particular reason that tiles defaults to CSET_IBM? 07:55:26 The kiku altar vault with the human in the glass? +1 07:58:09 by: Does tiles care about charsets at all? 07:58:31 !tell TGW < DrPraetor> The kiku altar vault with the human in the glass? +1 07:58:31 greensnark: OK, I'll let TGW know. 08:01:03 anyone around with tiles on windows? 08:04:55 greensnark: tiles builds default to cset_ibm, which appears to be breaking some things 08:05:00 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:07:12 What does it use it for? 08:07:41 I think only for doing things like the command help, but I'm not entirely sure 08:09:32 03by * ra6f8ba18ae2f 10/crawl-ref/source/AppHdr.h: Use CSET_ASCII for tiles builds. 08:10:20 let's see if anyone complains 08:14:33 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:23:58 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 08:24:39 -!- Xiberia has quit [] 08:45:49 Rings of wizardry should autoidentify if you have spellcasting. 08:46:05 *or*, the sumarry screen should hide their effect on spell success. 09:10:46 -!- Twinge- has joined ##crawl-dev 09:13:49 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:14:38 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:25 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:05 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:16 -!- Twinge- has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:26:41 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:30:53 03j-p-e-g * r82cd71c6fd0e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc tutorial.cc): Fix tutorial message for monster descriptions without stats/resistances. 09:30:58 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 09:32:16 * greensnark complains about CSET_ASCII for tiles change :P 09:32:22 You touched AppHdr.h :P 09:33:59 -!- Twinge- has joined ##crawl-dev 09:35:52 @??tentacle 09:35:52 tentacle (08w) | Speed: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 12 | Health: 36-60 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Damage: 29 | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 13magic(immune), asphyx | XP: 0. 09:36:02 :) 09:36:06 03greensnark * r6529f3d32f7b 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: [362] Make kraken tentacles water-only and increase their base speed to 16. 09:36:26 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:37:49 Does every spell have an associated bolt? 09:37:59 I am beginning to suspect the answer is "yes", but I want to make sure. 09:38:39 not really 09:43:20 hmm, then bolts are just "remember what you are targeting" things for some spells? 09:50:26 you mean tracers? 09:51:51 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:55:12 I think I might, but I'm not sure 09:55:13 Napkin: you already running the dgl version with greensnark's fix for huge ttyrecs? 09:55:31 yes 09:56:30 this reading of the whole file was causing this problem to have to watch a game from turn 1 on 09:56:35 *nod* 09:57:08 well, we assumed 09:57:12 and it seems to be true 09:57:54 The combination of that + the setrlimit 09:58:02 yes, of course 09:58:11 hey greensnark :) 09:58:20 Nabend! 09:58:40 The Shoals have claimed another victim 09:58:49 * greensnark feels an unholy glee. 09:58:50 oh noooes! 09:59:04 ;) 10:00:14 -!- mumblerit has quit [] 10:00:21 ... 10:00:31 * Madtrixr does not get the reference. 10:01:46 This is a somewhat surprising stat: 10:01:47 !lg * start>20100201 place=Snake|Shoals|Swamp s=br src=cdo 10:01:58 57 games for * (start>20100201 place=Snake|Shoals|Swamp src=cdo): 32x Swamp, 16x Shoals, 9x Snake 10:02:01 Oh. 10:02:22 !lg * start>20100201 place=Swamp s=ckiller src=cdo 10:02:25 32 games for * (start>20100201 place=Swamp src=cdo): 8x a hydra, 4x a hydra simulacrum, 2x Saint Roka, 2x Nikola, 2x Frederick, 2x an alligator, 2x cloud, 1x a red wasp, 1x Xtahua, 1x Donald, 1x self aimed, 1x Margery, 1x a slime creature, 1x an electrical eel, 1x Aizul, 1x water, 1x a baby alligator 10:02:40 You guys will be glad to know that your design has indeed done what it's supposed to (i.e. Kill me in any way.) 10:02:40 I'm at a loss to account for the lemming rush to die in Swamp 10:02:41 people know to avoid shoals until they are xl 20+ :P 10:02:50 well now it's more like 12+ 10:02:54 since you nerfed it to oblivion 10:03:00 But Swamp is 32x! 10:03:12 Well, I had to nerf it, it's supposed to be "comparable to Swamp and Snake" :P 10:03:22 well it certainly doesnt seem to be :P 10:03:30 Specifically, The teleport trap has lived up to it's name, and directly resulted in my death, just like I assume it's supposed to. 10:03:38 I would have thought the obvious response would be to give naga mages iood and add oklobdras 10:03:40 Yeah, Swamp is deadly :) 10:03:51 !lg * start>20100201 place=Swamp s=xl src=cdo 10:03:53 32 games for * (start>20100201 place=Swamp src=cdo): 15x 15, 8x 16, 3x 14, 3x 13, 2x 17, 1x 12 10:04:02 !lg * start>20100201 place=shoals s=xl src=cdo 10:04:08 16 games for * (start>20100201 place=shoals src=cdo): 4x 17, 3x 14, 3x 16, 2x 15, 1x 10, 1x 13, 1x 9, 1x 20 10:04:30 Let's face it: Swamp is the deadliest of hte lot 10:04:37 And here people complain about Shoals being hard :P 10:04:47 Oh man, people throw themselves into the swamp for some reason. 10:05:08 "It's just the Swamp, easiest rune in the du--argharghargh" 10:05:32 Is there any nefarious tele traps in Swamp? 10:05:57 my favorite part about swamp is the huge uniques that show up there 10:06:09 I'm not sure why it's funnier in swamp than it is in snake/shoals/vaults, but there it is 10:06:24 i hate swamp D: 10:06:27 That last Shoals splat was Frederick at his classiest 10:06:32 He animated a harpy :P 10:06:36 ahaha 10:06:39 And yobbo was blundering around confused 10:06:50 While the harpy zombie was feasting on his liver 10:07:16 lol 10:07:47 See, that's one of those YAAD. 10:07:59 Nah, it was his own fault :P 10:08:03 (Yet another Awesome Death) 10:08:11 He kept meph clouding Frederick and trying to take him down :P 10:08:20 When the right thing to do was meph cloud Frederick and run :P 10:08:27 Oh man. 10:08:30 Yeah. 10:08:36 Meph, and run. 10:08:48 the correct way to deal with frederick is always "don't fight frederick" 10:08:58 harpies hurt 10:09:06 Harpies <3 10:09:16 "They're in a pack, so they must be harmless!" 10:09:18 Especially when he says one of his new witty lines of dialogue. 10:09:20 *CLAW* 10:14:45 Oh wait, my search was Rong 10:15:05 !lg * start>20100201 place=Snake|Shoal|Swamp s=br src=cdo 10:15:08 57 games for * (start>20100201 place=Snake|Shoal|Swamp src=cdo): 32x Swamp, 16x Shoals, 9x Snake 10:15:13 Beh :P 10:15:20 Welp, bout the same. 10:15:30 !lg * start>20100115 place=Snake|Shoal|Swamp s=br src=cdo 10:15:32 Don't rub it in 10:15:33 102 games for * (start>20100115 place=Snake|Shoal|Swamp src=cdo): 48x Swamp, 22x Snake, 20x Shoals, 12x Shoal 10:15:43 Damn, Swamp really does kick ass 10:15:55 green: Why? it's true, isn't? 10:16:16 Maybe first two levels of Shoals should be guarded exclusively by fluffy bunnies to lure the victims in 10:16:44 Madtrixr: Swamp used to be the easiest rune :) 10:17:03 The new endings make things a lot more interesting 10:17:11 I need to actually get a character to midgame so I can see all of these branches 10:17:20 But I think there's also a large element of plain sloppy play because the Swamp has a reputation for being easy 10:17:24 * Madtrixr wishes he could SEE a rune for once. 10:17:35 !lg * start>20100115 place=Swamp s=place src=cdo 10:17:40 48 games for * (start>20100115 place=Swamp src=cdo): 17x Swamp:5, 11x Swamp:3, 8x Swamp:2, 7x Swamp:1, 5x Swamp:4 10:18:23 !lg * start>20100115 place=Shoal s=place src=cdo 10:18:28 32 games for * (start>20100115 place=Shoal src=cdo): 8x Shoals:5, 5x Shoals:4, 4x Shoal:5, 3x Shoal:4, 3x Shoals:1, 3x Shoals:2, 3x Shoal:1, 1x Shoals:3, 1x Shoal:3, 1x Shoal:2 10:20:14 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:41 hmm 10:23:37 my swamp deaths: quit, drowned, vapour :P 10:23:44 all in 2007 10:24:19 I got killed by Aizul because I was playing carelessly 10:24:35 I should get Napkin to delete that ttyrec 10:24:36 you leaned on the keys right 10:24:41 No :P 10:24:47 hihi 10:24:54 !lg . place=Swamp s=ckiller 10:24:55 4 games for greensnark (place=Swamp): 1x a swamp worm, 1x Xtahua, 1x Aizul, 1x a hydra 10:25:02 wuuuurm 10:25:02 see - who was it again asking me, why I didn't run dgl as user crawl? :> 10:25:17 That would be a good change 10:25:27 There are some ttyrecs that really need to be deleted 10:25:30 and I only drowned due to the 7->Y feature :P 10:25:44 !lg . Snake s=ckiller 10:25:45 8 games for greensnark (Snake): 3x a greater naga, 2x a grey snake, 1x a glowing quarterstaff of crushing, 1x Snorg, 1x Donald 10:25:54 !lg syllogism killer=~greater naga 10:25:55 No games for syllogism (killer=~greater naga). 10:26:02 seriously, greensnark? O_o 10:26:02 Ok, you can stop bragging now :P 10:26:04 :P 10:26:10 Napkin: No, just kidding 10:26:15 :-P 10:26:30 !lg syllogism Snake s=ckiller 10:26:31 5 games for syllogism (Snake): 2x a naga mage, 1x Margery, 1x quitting, 1x Louise 10:26:31 !lg . place=Swamp s=ckiller 10:26:31 2 games for jarpiain (place=Swamp): 1x a giant blowfly, 1x starvation 10:26:42 Hey, you died to naga magi :P 10:26:42 pfft :P 10:29:06 03Twinge * rb84a2751f1e1 10/crawl-ref/source/ (item_use.cc spells3.cc): Mantis #855: Scrolls of Detect Curse now always ID when read. 10:29:09 03burnhamrobertp * r34bf2f71eb5a 10/crawl-ref/source/files.cc: Mantis #295: Prompts for saving macros when exiting 10:29:16 03j-p-e-g * rb7c6f6e2b8af 10/crawl-ref/source/ (files.cc macro.cc state.cc state.h): Only prompt for saving macros if you actually changed them. 10:29:21 03j-p-e-g * r636a21c761a1 10/crawl-ref/source/ (files.cc ouch.cc): Also prompt for saving macros when dying, quitting or escaping. 10:29:41 looks like those deaths were when I started playing online :P 10:30:03 You've forgotten how to play 10:30:13 Most important part of playing Crawl is dying glamorously invarious places 10:30:24 And passwall in Abyss doesn't count :P 10:30:26 I've died glamorously :P 10:30:57 !lg syllogism !win 10:30:57 2774. syllogism the Reanimator (L11 DENe), worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha, slain by a hill giant (a +0,+0 giant spiked club) on D:11 on 2010-02-21, with 12020 points after 18709 turns and 1:19:59. 10:31:02 doesn't get much more glamorous than that buggy mf of chei 10:31:07 that was a typo :P 10:31:15 !lg . 10:31:15 wanted to use corpse rot but cast levitation instead :P 10:31:15 451. greensnark the Soul Tainter (L4 MuPr), worshipper of Yredelemnul, blasted by an orc priest (divine providence) on D:4 on 2010-02-24, with 292 points after 3850 turns and 0:10:55. 10:31:42 Cannot run tiles from path with umlaut characters (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=941) by evktalo 10:31:50 I thought that was fixed? 10:32:03 Is it tiles-only? 10:36:44 Milestones for labyrinths (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=943) by evktalo 10:36:44 Handle Ziggurat milestones in epilogues (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=942) by evktalo 10:38:42 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:48:57 let me try, greensnark 10:49:06 i'll build trunk of both and let you know 10:51:30 Eino says console build has no problems 10:59:27 hey greenie 10:59:28 sup 10:59:58 Yo 11:01:54 -!- Xardas-3 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.0.17/2010021501]] 11:06:23 hehe, 69 HP kobold meleeing hydras 11:06:23 :D 11:07:25 with a cutting weapon? 11:07:31 eveningstar 11:09:48 ranged combat looks overpowered :P 11:09:55 syllogism, slings? 11:09:59 everything 11:10:19 It is 11:10:27 Damage numbers need tuning 11:10:47 It was alread quite high even in 0.1, but the ammo scene made players not bother :P 11:11:00 Now the extra brands really hit the damage out of the park 11:11:09 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:42 I like the new brands though 11:12:07 Although I can never remember what silver is supposed to affect :P 11:12:13 chaotic creatures :P 11:12:30 It's like a tax form, you have to read the fine print and the list of 300 special cases :P 11:12:46 Silver? Werewolves right? 11:12:50 if you get a +1 str mutation, it will affect you as well :P 11:14:01 Is it flat on/off, or does it affect you more depending on how mutated you are? 11:17:34 The latter. 11:17:54 Should add "monster is chaotic", like "mindless" is displayed. 11:18:35 It's quite all over the place, yeah. :P 11:19:25 Silver bullets should get some kind of comedy bonus :P 11:19:35 A portal vault with a werewolf unique in it maybe 11:19:51 Zin should so get silver bullets invocation. And Imprisonment. And be called "The Sheriff". 11:20:00 I shot the sheriff 11:20:05 But I did not shoot the deputy! 11:20:09 Sorry 11:20:20 You are firing 5 +0 needles of frenzy. You shoot a runed needle of frenzy. The runed needle of frenzy hits the death yak. The death yak is lightly wounded. The death yak resists! Cheibriados thinks you should slow down. 11:20:22 Everytime someone mentions that word the song gets stuck in my skull for hours 11:20:24 nice bug 11:21:55 needles of frenzy and chei (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=944) by cbus 11:23:54 03greensnark * r8627d4b0561e 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/ (clua/ziggurat.lua des/portals/ziggurat.des): [942] Generate ziggurat milestones in epilogue to avoid milestone spam for levelgen failure. 11:24:23 Prince Ribbit is taking Sigmund's place, huh? 11:24:38 not nice in D4! 11:25:02 Frog boy is rather hard to avoid, yes 11:25:14 Best not to stir him up, and tiptoe off downstairs :) 11:25:15 @??Prince Ribbit 11:25:15 Prince Ribbit (11F) | Speed: 14 (swim: 60%) | HD: 6 | Health: 40 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Damage: 20 | Flags: amphibious, spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 302 | Sp: teleport self. 11:25:17 @??Phantom 11:25:17 phantom (02p) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 21-56 | AC/EV: 3/13 | Damage: 1006(blink) | Flags: 07undead, evil, lev | Res: 06magic(37), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 124. 11:26:01 Oh, and his XP is off a bit too. Didn't catch him in the frog updates. 11:26:03 @??blink frog 11:26:03 blink frog (09F) | Speed: 14 (swim: 60%) | HD: 6 | Health: 18-48 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Damage: 2006(blink) | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40) | XP: 262. 11:26:29 Not terribly off I guess, but I'll make a note. 11:26:59 -!- karmatic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:07 longbows of speed are ridiculous :P 11:28:26 hasted you frequently get 3 attacks before orb of fire gets to move once 11:28:49 or 4 apparently? 11:28:49 wait, there are longbows of speed? 11:28:54 I did not know that, that is absurd 11:29:01 they are really rare 11:29:09 at least without god help 11:29:17 I wonder why :p 11:29:51 sigmund didn't wake up.. prince guy immediately, greensnark ;) 11:30:28 Your mummy is destroyed! Cheibriados appreciates the change of pace. 11:30:28 _You feel nervous for a moment... Drink which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit) 11:30:31 _Okay, then. 11:30:34 another bug 11:30:34 you get the curses if the mummy is yours 11:31:58 Mummy + enslavement (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=945) by cbus 11:32:52 greensnark: Thanks for the 942! 11:33:31 Glad to help :) 11:35:31 @?? mottled dragon 11:35:31 mottled dragon (13D) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 15-40 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Damage: 15, 6 | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(20), 05fire, 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 153 | Sp: sticky flame splash. 11:36:59 wizlab portal description doesn't mention non-permanence (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=946) by rob 11:38:22 The lag when Resting on the latest .6 tiles is quite annoying :\ 11:38:43 Is the lag only in tiles 11:39:11 greenshark, let me test 11:39:23 greensnark, wanna see something fun? 11:39:34 check my game on pingpong 11:39:34 it would be really nice if you could adjust the rate 11:39:37 slouch vs killer bee nest 11:39:38 I hope that bug isn't back again... maybe its fix didn't get set for 0.6? (*tests ascii too*) 11:39:46 ok, its over :) 11:40:01 cbus: I've seen it :P 11:40:17 syllogism tends to exploit the overpowered stuff comprehensively :P 11:40:31 ooh sonja only had a short sword of venom :) 11:40:42 In fact, as long as he plays Crawl, you know that something needs to be rebalanced :P 11:41:13 so we need to get rid of him 11:41:13 :D 11:41:37 lol 11:42:00 trove doesn't accept non-curse-ided ring of magical power (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=947) by rob 11:42:22 it's just balance testing :P 11:43:10 greenshark, non-tiles Resting seems to work as intended 11:43:21 what you do is, you rate characters on how similar they are to syllogism's 11:43:28 the more similar, the more evil you make the RNG 11:44:05 So syllogism is the gold standard of OP characters, kind of like the speed of light :) 11:44:18 yes 11:44:22 lol yeah. 11:45:10 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:45:26 Does fireball intentionally not have SPFLAG_AREA? 11:45:42 btw, for what it's worth, I am playing on today's trunk release 11:46:52 Hmm, doy never put in the wyvern/anaconda zombie size fix for 0.6 yet :/ 11:47:43 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:22 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:56:06 "trove doesn't accept non-curse-ided ring of magical power " It wanted a ring of magical power? That's worrying :P 11:56:35 to be fair it probably wanted 10 rings of magical power 11:58:25 I suppose the imp in the Trove was actually Sauron in disguise? 11:58:36 greensnark: resting does not appear to be buggedly slow in current 0.6 ascii 11:58:49 Has someone filed the tiles bug? 11:58:58 I got a stack of ~15 rings in return for that ring of magical power 11:59:04 i imagine it has been filed a dozen times 11:59:08 at least on source forge 11:59:19 Yeah, but those are the opengl drivers issues, right 11:59:26 no clue 11:59:32 Whereas this is presumably new slowness 11:59:38 how can you tell 11:59:41 SF doesn't see much activity, and I think it's set to off right now anyway 11:59:44 it's just some tiles user saying it's slow 11:59:54 I thought this was someone who previously found it fast suddenly calling it slow? 12:00:02 Who reported it 12:00:11 I saw some guy on SA at least 12:00:12 karmatic: Was 0.5 tiles similarly slow? 12:00:35 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 12:00:56 greensnark: like in previous discussions of this issue, I suggest looking at c37c870f 12:01:46 Well there was, for a good while, an issue in trunk that made resting in both ascii and tiles noticebly slower than 0.5.2, but that was fixed a few weeks ago AFAIK (it was on my end anyway) 12:02:09 by: Why do we redraw during rest? 12:03:02 !seen pointless_ 12:03:03 I last saw pointless at Wed Nov 26 04:55:29 2008 UTC (about 1y 13w 2d 13h 7m 34s ago) saying But the user was not online. 12:03:09 ? 12:03:16 Sorry, just checking the Henzell bug 12:03:23 Your nick is the handiest test :P 12:03:34 The underscore is helpful in various ways 12:04:25 hmm, how can I tell whether an arbitrary actor is a player or a monster? 12:04:38 actor->atype() 12:04:43 alright, thanks 12:05:49 greensnark: I got complaints after removing it (clouds, summons) 12:05:59 Brrh :) 12:06:19 Does it respect travel_delay = -1? 12:06:22 It's certainly supposed to 12:06:34 it just didn't make sense to me to have console and tiles behave differently, so I tried first one, then the other way 12:06:46 But that check there appears to not look at travel_delay 12:06:46 no idea re travel_delay 12:07:02 Redraw during rest is a real pain on slow connections :) 12:08:19 feel free to disable generally -- I'm not opposed 12:11:14 03pointless_ * r738da62e3ed7 10/crawl-ref/source/spells4.cc: Don't override input beam range in cast_evaporate 12:11:44 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:55 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:00 !seen pointless_ 12:13:00 I last saw pointless_ at Fri Feb 26 18:03:34 2010 UTC (9m 26s ago) saying The underscore is helpful in various ways on ##crawl-dev. 12:18:43 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:36 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:07 -!- Xardas-3 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:24 03pointless_ * re1006d962d2e 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-cast.cc: Always prompt for self targeting with non SPFLAG_HELPFUL spells 12:55:17 how odd, adding an mpr("blah") for debugging purposes is making crawl segfault 12:55:29 what is the general way to add "print" statements for debugging? 12:57:57 mpr should be fine 12:59:32 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:03:58 -!- Xardas-3 has left ##crawl-dev 13:04:35 how odd, sticking an mpr in silenced() is causing a segfault 13:04:56 like, literally, if the body of silenced is just "mpr("hey it's an mpr"); return false;" crawl still segfaults 13:09:45 -!- pointless__ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:10:54 -!- pointless_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:10:56 -!- pointless__ is now known as pointless_ 13:12:07 !tell due missed a wizlab :( 13:12:07 by: OK, I'll let due know. 13:12:42 nrook: Wonder if that's anything like how defining a variable within a switch *breaks everything* 13:13:03 Twinge-: that just causes compile errors 13:13:27 by: True. 13:19:20 debugging crawl with printf() is hilarious, incidentally 13:19:49 you can print to stderr and redirect that to a file 13:22:10 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/category/news 13:25:01 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:31:08 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 13:31:50 _c - the cursed scimitar "Coontug" (weapon) {holy, Noisy AC+2} 13:31:52 is this a bug? 13:32:52 cbus: I can't see the bug; what do you think the problem is? 13:32:58 a cursed holy item? 13:33:06 hmm, ah yes 13:33:20 posted 13:33:27 nrook: is silenced called inside mpr? 13:33:28 scarf, I think theres already code to prevent normal items, but apparently not randarts 13:33:44 I can imagine potentially it's segfaulting due to infinite recursion 13:37:32 cursed holy randarts (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=948) by cbus 13:37:46 scarf: oh, hey, that's a good idea, that might be it 13:37:54 I forgot that silenced would suppress messages =/ 13:38:45 can I create a monster with a bow and arrows of reaping in wiz mode? 13:39:56 pointless_: you can give items to monsters 13:40:07 x? 13:41:01 ah hah 13:41:36 there's also some syntax to give items on monster creation, but I keep forgetting that 13:41:51 something like centaur ; arrow . bow 13:41:56 that is probably wrong though 13:42:42 The important part is I was able to reproduce a crash due to reflected arrows of reaping killing a monster 13:48:40 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:49 Afternoon 13:49:47 Hail. 13:49:57 Evenings, Cryp71c :) 13:50:23 how goes .6 prep? 13:55:34 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/ <-- getting too long, or is ok? 13:56:22 seems the right length 13:56:27 the frontpage could do with more internal links, though 13:56:53 e.g. "play Crawl online" could be linked to the page about playing online; it's also linked from the sidebar, but people might not think to look there 13:57:32 Yes, that's a good idea. 13:58:25 I'm wondering if to keep "The origins of crawl & stone soup" part, with Darshan's blog post. But perhaps it's a good condensed version (plus the blog post doesn't cover the first few sentences). 14:00:03 the important stuff's above the fold, it doesn't matter if there's more below 14:05:36 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:41 Not quite neat: http://crawl-ref.sourceforge.net/ 14:06:08 I mean the layout - I'm pretty satisfied with the content ;) 14:07:19 Stuffed some linebreaks in there, clunky but ok.. 14:07:27 -!- tinyrodent has joined ##crawl-dev 14:07:41 don't sourceforge require keeping a link to the project page? 14:08:22 I couldn't find that in the document. I only found that they strongly recommend to display the SF logo. 14:08:50 bhaak: now i remember why i quit playing nethack. and probably won't be playing unnethack again 14:09:41 bhaak: after several hours invested in a character, played it all just right, buffed up nice, some creature with a wand of death ray kills me instantly. that's just not fun. 14:10:52 ranged combat is really, really overpowered midgame 14:12:15 "Your body is slowly deteriorating" is bad right? 14:12:32 ask ##crawl 14:12:34 oops wrong channel 14:12:44 my bad 14:12:49 but yes 14:13:21 ranged combat was fine in 0.5, from what I could tell 14:16:18 ranged combat was fine in 0.5 because nobody really used it, and because there were fewer brands 14:16:18 doy: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 14:16:21 !messages 14:16:21 (1/1) due said (7h 7m 37s ago): Not quite fixed Troves, but almost there, hooray! 14:17:42 Landmine in player_adjusted_shield_evasion_penalty (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=949) by marcmagus 14:19:50 'landmine', heh 14:20:11 That's an awesome thing to report. 14:22:36 krakens are unfortunately kind of dumb right now 14:22:44 make show_inventory_weights default to true; remove option (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=950) by TGW 14:22:48 you just whack the single tentacles until it does 14:23:03 and they can't really overwhelm you unless you are literally surrounded by shallow water 14:23:51 I love the idea of reaching + grabbing + pulling. 14:24:02 hmm, where is the stepdown function? 14:25:55 Hmm.. show_invetory_weights doesn't seem to be working in tiles. 14:27:13 oh, it's stepdown_value 14:31:37 Apparently it's set to false if tile_menu_icons is set to true.. 14:32:33 hmmm. Will making beam::agent return the last actor to reflect the beam rather than the thrower cause problems? 14:32:41 That shows item tiles in inventory, and player tile in the saved games list. 14:32:58 Plus columnises the inventory, which is nice. 14:33:04 Keskitalo: perfect example of a useless comment there in main.cc 14:33:53 That is fairly self-documenting code indeed. :) 14:34:10 a hint as to why it's disabled would also be appropriate 14:34:25 Ah. That's true. 14:34:40 -!- EroN1 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:35:25 I'll comment it out and see what happens. :> 14:35:54 what's the comment? 14:36:21 What it's not was the important thing - it didn't say why it overrides the option. 14:37:22 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:37:52 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:16 -!- raydarken has joined ##crawl-dev 14:40:34 -!- pointless_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:41:01 -!- EroN1 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:41:45 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:44:58 -!- tinyrodent has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:45:47 trog should set fire to you if you apport his book 14:45:57 haha 14:46:11 rather a nasty trap, though, unless you set some statues nearby to warn players it's a vault 14:47:50 Make Slouch not damage sleeping opponents (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=951) by evktalo 14:54:36 -!- EroN1 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:03:08 -!- pointless_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:45 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:21:29 03pointless_ * r539f9623ce81 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Make bolt::agent return the last actor to reflect a beam 15:23:12 -!- TGW has left ##crawl-dev 15:30:28 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 15:39:56 -!- murphy_slaw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:43:16 clearly I wasn't the only one who thought of apporting trogs book ;) 15:45:55 Hehe, yeah. 15:46:33 -!- pointless_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:47:43 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:48:06 Four upstairs in Lair:1 (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=952) by evktalo 15:48:12 the book should be left there for several turns, and if you pick it up trog should sticky flame the player with an appropriate message 15:48:13 :) 15:55:58 nrook: Actually, I think what's going on is that mpr() has to redraw the screen for you to see the message, and redrawing the screen calls silenced() in order to correctly generate the blue halo thingie 15:57:47 Meh, no Shoals again. 16:11:56 -!- pointless_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:34 !seen doy 16:12:34 I last saw doy at Fri Feb 26 20:19:50 2010 UTC (1h 52m 44s ago) saying landmine, heh on ##crawl-dev. 16:13:41 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:13:58 !tell tinyrodent sorry to hear about your untimely death. I haven't done anything about the proverbial "gnome with a wand of death" because I don't know what to do. 16:13:58 bhaak: OK, I'll let tinyrodent know. 16:14:08 -!- karmatic has quit [] 16:14:14 Wait, wait 16:14:25 Since when does cbus use delay_message_clear 16:14:28 this channel has somehow become #unnethack through the back door 16:14:46 resistance is futile 16:14:58 @whereis greensnark 16:14:58 greensnark the Slicer (L13 MuPr), a worshipper of Yredelemnul, saved on Shoals:2 on 2010-02-25 after 34605 turns. 16:15:10 bhaak: angband/adom-style item danger levels? No/very rare floor /death before D:15 16:15:46 floor /death aren't the issue, the issue is that humanoids can spawn with random attack wands 16:15:58 gnomes can't 16:16:05 sorear: that would make it only more unlikely, not solving the conceptual problem 16:16:08 spawning with attack wands is scaled to HD 16:16:12 really? 16:16:29 only 20+ HD mobs or so can get death 16:16:30 been a while since i've looked at the nh source i guess 16:16:51 but it can of course be generated randomly on the floor and be pickep up 16:17:05 or from bones 16:17:45 the question is: why shouldn't monsters be allowed to use /oDeath? 16:18:29 i think you're asking the wrong question 16:18:40 the right question is: why should /death even exist? 16:20:43 doy: did you see http://ancardia.ath.cx/~stefanor/0001-Revert-demonspawn-to-0.5-system.patch ? 16:21:05 sorear: yeah, haven't had time to do anything with it yet though 16:21:14 i'll get to it tonight or tomorrow 16:21:31 the idea of an highly dangerous attack wand doesn't look wrong to me 16:21:41 odd behavior in my trunk game i just started. Two times on D:1 i found 2 potions of the same type within a square of each other, and now again on D:2 16:21:42 hmm, what's the mantis status bit for "No, this isn't a bug, but I don't want to outright close it" 16:21:47 although that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be instadeath 16:21:54 like "resolved" is for "probably fixed, you close" 16:22:06 acknowledged? 16:22:52 sorear: why don't you want to close it? 16:23:10 bhaak: well, yeah, i meant "/death in its current form" 16:23:29 doy: dunno, summarily closing BRs feels like bad form 16:24:37 sorear: ah, well, in those cases i just make a comment 16:24:40 and don't change the status 16:24:55 and then close once enough people have commented that there seems to be a consensus 16:27:58 -!- eith has quit [] 16:40:56 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 16:46:06 -!- pointless_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:47:46 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:48:21 Someone got two Zin altars in the Temple (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=953) by jpeg 16:56:07 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 16:56:48 -!- murphy_slaw_ is now known as murphy_slaw 17:04:58 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 17:09:26 I wonder if the new slime creatures would make a fun player summon spell/ability. 17:19:27 -!- scarf has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:33 Missing line break in targeting help screen (x -> ?) (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=954) by Nobody 17:34:47 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 17:34:52 03j-p-e-g * r6760bafe3420 10/crawl-ref/source/ (item_use.cc spells3.cc spells3.h): Don't id ?Detect Curse if not carrying anything. 17:34:52 Cheeras 17:34:53 03j-p-e-g * rdde1465c2478 10/crawl-ref/source/command.cc: Fix #954: Bad linebreak in xe documentation. 17:35:13 !seen kilobyte 17:35:14 I last saw kilobyte at Fri Feb 19 15:06:51 2010 UTC (1w 8h 28m 22s ago) saying !log on Henzell. 17:35:42 dpeg, 10k 17:37:04 cbus: awesome :) 17:38:18 the tracker is hysteric right now 17:38:21 where will it end? 17:39:05 hysteric? 17:39:13 yes, don't you say so? 17:40:51 hmm, so getting mummy curses because "your mummies" get killed by monsters is a deliberate change 17:40:54 doh 17:41:27 heloo dpeg 17:43:02 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 17:45:01 good some-time-of-the-day everyone! 17:45:36 sorear: Hi! 17:45:42 hi dpeg. 17:45:42 due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:45:50 Hi everyone :) 17:46:22 -!- by has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:46:23 -!- by_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:46:31 !messages 17:46:31 (1/1) by said (4h 34m 24s ago): missed a wizlab :( 17:46:39 by_: :(!!!! 17:46:49 dpeg: We need to balance wizlab loot, also. 17:49:07 -!- pointless_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:50:21 due: urghs :) 17:50:30 due: did you figure out why I couldn't enter my wizlab? 17:50:42 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:18 sorear: ah, alright, that makes sense. 18:07:48 dpeg: Your trove, you mean? 18:07:55 -!- eith has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:07:59 dpeg: No, I honestly haven't had time to look. Maybe tomorrow. 18:08:21 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 18:10:27 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:10:49 -!- pointless_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:07 dpeg: I'll try and look at it tonight, actually. Will let you know. 18:11:10 * due out again. 18:15:07 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 18:15:09 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:46 need forest branch -- looks good in tiles :D 18:22:47 http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s210/purge83/Crawl/?action=view¤t=forest.png 18:29:50 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 18:30:23 -!- permagreen has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:34 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 18:32:03 ooh, due gets his own status 18:32:09 topic 18:33:12 -!- Twinge- has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:35:50 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:39:31 does johanna play on the server ever? 18:39:39 -!- pointless_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:39:39 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:40:27 I don't think so 18:40:45 she's pretty serious about tiles 18:40:45 (: 18:40:50 whoooooooo 18:40:57 finally have monster silence working reasonably :) 18:41:02 !gamesby jpeg 18:41:03 jpeg has played 2 games, between 20070126 and 20090202, won 0, high score 18, total score 20, total turns 122, total time 0:01:54. 18:41:05 lol 18:41:16 I guess I could have figured that out pretty easily 18:41:20 taken me all day, since I still don't understand how monster decay works well enough to reasonably reverse it 18:41:39 you're making monster silence? 18:41:40 :D 18:43:33 no, TGW 18:43:37 I _made_ monster silence :D 18:43:56 first step in "project implement ein" 18:44:31 I wonder if it would be taboo to generate monsters without silence if you're not a spellcaster 18:45:06 er, what? 18:45:29 nevermind 18:45:51 -!- Twinge- has joined ##crawl-dev 18:48:22 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:48:54 TGW: the monsters could just not cast it if you're not a spellcaster in _ms_waste_of_time 18:49:07 that's very true 18:49:15 how would they know though? 18:49:19 you're pretty famous, monsters should generally know your abilities to the extent of @?? 18:49:31 no equipment, but stats and spells are fair game 18:49:31 it blocks scrolls of teleport, though :) 18:49:45 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 18:49:46 mutated rN+++ should make shadow dragons flee 18:50:00 if that's true 18:50:08 I dunno how smart shadow dragons are 18:50:20 or, make necromancers screw off b.draining 18:50:23 more reasonably 18:50:51 anyway, I think having lots of monsters have silence would be a bad idea, just because it's a horrifically dangerous spell to certain characters 18:51:00 nrook: it got nerfed pretty hard 18:51:12 you can like run 18:52:39 -!- Twinge- has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:53:06 yeah, i don't think the current state of silence would be horrifically dangerous 18:53:55 unless you like, give it to Executioners 18:54:22 you know, it would be fun to hook silence durations into monster hd, although I don't think decay works in a way that would make that easy 18:54:34 I'm a fan of monsters with extremely differential difficulty 18:54:57 well, my real motivation is that I want to make the unique I'm implementing unique and cool :p 18:56:05 dpeg, front page updated :) 18:56:23 showing first bits of "Game News" now on top. 18:58:07 Napkin: just looking :) 18:58:46 I put the news at the top.. tried in the middle - looked sucky, I think 18:59:04 bottom is not an option - i mean.. news should not be at the end of something :D 18:59:12 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:59:13 yes 19:02:55 -!- eith_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:10:26 -!- TGW has left ##crawl-dev 19:11:05 -!- Twinge- has joined ##crawl-dev 19:14:24 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:15:22 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:55 -!- Twinge- has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:22:39 -!- by_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:25:57 -!- timecircuits has joined ##crawl-dev 19:29:03 Small brown rat tile to replace current rat tille (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=955) by purge 19:46:19 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:48:14 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 19:48:19 -!- Iainuki_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:48:30 dpeg: setting options ingame is distinctly not what crawl does 19:48:42 oh he's not here 19:49:05 if show inventory weights would break a line, suppress it? 19:49:47 TGW: autopickup? 19:50:02 doy: he suggested a persistent option 19:50:03 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:50:54 autopickup turns itself off when you save 19:50:58 let alone between games 19:51:13 on* 19:52:00 TGW: I am here. 19:52:09 dpeg: how did I not notice you? 19:52:14 no idea 19:52:19 weird 19:52:57 TGW: it'd be something new, but we might want an ingame options editor at some point anyway 19:53:02 hm, perhaps 19:53:09 i think making it work like autopickup for now would be fine 19:53:15 doy: yes 19:53:19 and yeah, getting an actual in-game options editor later 19:53:32 My main point was that "always show weights" is not necessarily better 19:53:40 i'm not sure i agree 19:53:54 i mean, weights remove like 5 characters 19:53:57 doy: I always play without them, I don't want to see them :) 19:54:10 dpeg: now you're being like greensnark 19:54:10 d: 19:54:27 there are rare cases where they'd be useful, and I'd appreciate a toggle for those moments 19:54:47 doy: There seems to be a widespread that "more information == better" 19:54:53 *opinion 19:54:59 dpeg: it's right aligned and lightgray 19:55:07 TGW: I know how it looks like 19:55:07 it's sort of hard to be distracted by it 19:55:19 I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just saying 19:55:40 hmmm 19:55:41 TGW: I am the one who lobbied for removal of the Gold and Turns line. 19:55:44 how about during dropping? 19:56:14 yeah, i think that's a better option 19:56:15 dpeg: that space is used to list statuses, yeah? 19:56:17 TGW: most often, you don't care about the weights. If you do, there is already information in the top line. 19:56:19 just show it on the drop menu 19:56:22 TGW: yes 19:56:42 dpeg: barring very long inscriptions, there's no reason to look to the right 19:56:55 hrm, i! is taken 19:57:02 dpeg: what do you think about that 19:57:09 I don't think you get my point. 19:57:21 I don't think I do 19:57:38 I agree with option; a toggle would be better. Showing them always is a regression which I'll oppose. 19:57:38 dpeg: i'm concerned by weights of individual items quite often when dropping things 19:58:04 doy: the top line tells you total load, now and after dropping. 19:58:22 dpeg: so that means you have to select each potential item, to see what effect it has? 19:58:25 dpeg: the top line is laid out confusingly and requires trial and error 19:58:39 doy: no, that's not true because you know what's heavy and what is not. 19:58:56 dpeg: you do? how? 19:59:11 Orbs of destructions do not destroy closed doors (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=956) by 78291 19:59:18 I don't like printing an extra 24 numbers of a screen that's used very often for some rather smallish gain. 19:59:22 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 19:59:40 is there a cost to printing those numbers? 19:59:43 that's an actual question 19:59:56 You have yourself on your minds, I have new players on my mind. 20:00:04 This is why I accept the option. 20:00:16 TGW: no cost 20:01:11 hehe 20:01:20 Napkin: laughing at whom? :) 20:01:21 those with deep knowledge of item weights are probably not new players 20:01:50 not laughing, just giggling seeing them fighting to display "numbers" 20:01:50 TGW, doy: do you agree that for new players, less information is better? 20:02:01 Napkin: yes, I am quite often alone in that. 20:02:03 and I thought of "light/heavy" adjectives :D 20:02:10 yeah :P 20:02:22 "5 of these items weighs as much as a meat ration" 20:02:23 (: 20:02:27 :P 20:02:31 perfect 20:02:44 greensnark understands me 20:03:02 you already know I'm on the other side of that opinion - having show_weights & show_turn&gold on since you changed the default ;) 20:03:10 dpeg: this is information that new players can benefit from as much as me and is expressed clearly 20:03:17 *the default got changed 20:03:57 I wouldn't even agree that new players deserve less information, but this seems more useful than most 20:04:05 well, that new players function better with less information 20:04:26 but, those are design decisions and you guys been making those for far longer.. hell - i won't argue on those, dpeg ;) 20:04:43 so.. I guess.. I am actually laughing at TGW & doy :-P 20:05:16 i'd also rather show_gold_turns was default, but really, i'd much rather that the interface be lua-scriptable, so i'm not really concerned about the current state of things 20:05:19 shrug 20:05:35 i'm not incredibly invested in either side of this argument anyway 20:06:14 really, i wouldn't care about it at all if it was easier to toggle options 20:06:44 just kinda feels like the wrong decision to assume that every single player will start editing the options file once they've been playing long enough 20:06:50 yeah.. stop pretending :-P 20:06:52 that's the position i'm coming from 20:07:18 i agree that hiding information for new players can be helpful, but it'd be nice if it was obvious what was being hidden 20:07:26 so that they could know how to adjust it 20:07:33 without having to read through a like 300kb document 20:07:36 specifically what information? 20:10:08 but i think that the better long term solution here is an in-game options editor and a scriptable main interface 20:10:19 so i'm not incredibly concerned about things at the moment 20:10:36 doy: this is why Ctrl-W is the best solution 20:11:07 ctrl+w? 20:11:18 toggle to (not) show weights 20:11:18 a toggle to show inventory weights 20:11:25 should be preserved across games 20:11:35 nice 20:11:38 or at least across saves 20:11:42 crawl doesn't currently have a way to do that 20:11:45 i don't think it needs to be preserved across games any more than any other option 20:11:51 doy: yes, perhaps 20:11:56 TGW: circles 20:12:01 ? 20:12:11 discussing is running in circles 20:12:12 i mean, we have ^A and default_autopickup now 20:12:16 therefore: sleep 20:12:21 and i think that's a reasonable thing to model it on 20:12:21 I'd love a in-game options editor too - I'd use it to toggle clean_map 20:12:43 Napkin: yes, there are some options you really want to change on short notice 20:12:49 ...will comer 20:12:52 *come 20:12:55 :) 20:13:00 I have no doubt, dpeg :) 20:13:09 just like tiles on CDO 20:13:36 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: sleep] 20:14:15 Orange and Green rat tile tweaks/cleanup (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=957) by purge 20:14:26 btw, weights are never displayed in tiles - no matter what you set that option too 20:14:42 @??menkaure 20:14:42 Menkaure (06M) | Speed: 6 | HD: 3 | Health: 24 | AC/EV: 3/6 | Damage: 25 | Flags: 07undead, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(20), 02cold, 03poison | Vul: 04fire | XP: 121 | Sp: pain, haste, torment symbol. 20:14:48 -!- syllogism has quit [] 20:14:49 121? come on 20:14:52 and gold&turns is always displayed - no matter what you set that option to 20:17:37 why should new players get less information? 20:17:45 confusion? 20:17:55 I can't think of crawl doing that anywhere 20:18:14 I would imagine that dpeg would like it to do that more often, then :) 20:18:33 more numbers are confusing too 20:18:52 anyway, night all 20:19:04 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:07 dito 20:19:07 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:19:15 inventory weight is so clear though :( 20:19:53 'clear' isn't really the point 20:20:17 it is clear in that it does not seem confusing at all 20:20:28 showing exact monster hp would be 'clear' too 20:21:19 I will posit that most new players will understand what the numbers mean, how they work and when to ignore them 20:21:38 see, now you are missing the point 20:21:46 I don't see what other point there could be 20:21:49 the point is, that it's not that important 20:22:04 the more things that new players have to take the time to understand, the harder it is 20:22:14 regardless of how possible it is to understand them 20:22:30 my dad is playing tiles and he never needed that info more than once.. and you see weight when looking at an item - granted, "looking at item" is quicker in tiles. 20:23:18 Hi Enne! 20:23:22 And g'night :) 20:23:23 It's always been enough for me to see the delta weight at the top of the multi-drop item menu. 20:23:23 Enne: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 20:23:43 Hey, Napkin. :) 20:23:45 !messages 20:23:45 (1/1) ixtli said (14h 50m 4s ago): http://github.com/ixtli/crawl/tree/ipad so far i've factored out SDL deps from tilesdl.cc/h Lemme know what you think :) 20:23:58 Ooh, <3 ixtli. 20:24:42 doy: are you suggesting we hide the weight system from new players? 20:24:50 or just make it harder to interpret? 20:25:13 TGW: i'm saying that i don't think it's a big issue at all 20:25:20 it's certainly not "hiding the weight system" 20:25:27 that's an incredible overreaction 20:25:33 doy: right, you can't hide the weight system 20:26:02 is using adjectives for spell failure "hiding the spellcasting system" from players? 20:26:11 the inventory weights are the fastest way to manage your inventory --- what 20:26:36 i just think you're overreacting here 20:26:49 you're not suggesting using adjectives for weights, you're disagreeing that the fast method of reading weights is useful 20:27:00 useful overall 20:27:33 I think I'm exasperated that this is turning into a big thing, because it's a one-line FR and now it's a philosophy discussion 20:27:44 that sentence made little if any sense 20:27:52 TGW: the point here is, every time you look at the inventory, you have extra information you have to parse 20:28:03 regardless of how easy it might be to understand it 20:28:31 the other point is, you can't save the player form having to parse weights 20:28:37 from* 20:29:32 TGW: but new players probably won't even need to manage their inventory to that extent 20:29:49 new players get encumbered too 20:29:52 it takes until at least lair before carrying capacity is even slightly an issue 20:30:19 and if it is, you can just open up your inventory and drop something 20:31:02 -!- jld has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:31:13 i agree that when you get later in the game, micromanaging inventory weights is a valuable skill 20:31:17 but that's later in the game 20:31:29 it's certainly not important for new players 20:31:34 decj has 217 aum and is a tutorial 20:32:08 my current character is carrying 274 on D:5 20:33:17 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev 20:47:56 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * rca66be5d8317 10/crawl-ref/source/ (misc.cc misc.h player.cc transform.cc transform.h): Fix merfolk entering water twice from ice form. 20:47:57 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * rbc76800cceda 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Fix monsters flying over unknown traps detecting them. 20:47:57 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r09ff3574bc91 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Smart monsters and those native to a branch can cross shafts. 20:47:58 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * rb3c201058963 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Stupid monsters will trigger shafts even if at home in a branch. 20:47:59 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * rcbe9bd31528f 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Shafts again: Also add friendly monsters into the mix. 20:48:02 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * rc6796ccdcb13 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: traps.cc: Move shaft handling into trap->is_known(). 20:48:04 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r9283aa8ce104 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Redraw EV after wielding weapon of evasion. 20:48:06 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r0a5bf9f9cd63 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/lua/autofight.lua: Some autofight improvements. 20:48:07 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * rf7fe3c93b3b2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (tilereg.cc tilereg.h): Make CRTRegion update crawl_view.termsz on resize. 20:48:09 03due 07stone_soup-0.6 * r398005e36d10 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/portals/trove.des itemname.cc): Fix dLua item ego_type wrapper, Trove shop pluses. 20:48:10 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r5890a6346a89 10/crawl-ref/source/ (invent.cc showsymb.cc showsymb.h tutorial.cc): Fix Ctrl-X display of unicode items. 20:48:13 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r056773587e9c 10/crawl-ref/source/AppHdr.h: Use CSET_ASCII for tiles builds. 20:48:13 03by 07stone_soup-0.6 * r316a33616846 10/crawl-ref/source/command.cc: Properly encode unicode book glyph in command help. 20:48:16 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * rd571f6523ba4 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc tutorial.cc): Fix tutorial message for monster descriptions without stats/resistances. 20:48:17 03greensnark 07stone_soup-0.6 * r0e0ea848a795 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: [362] Make kraken tentacles water-only and increase their base speed to 16. 20:48:19 03greensnark 07stone_soup-0.6 * r9b4ef462e41c 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/ (clua/ziggurat.lua des/portals/ziggurat.des): [942] Generate ziggurat milestones in epilogue to avoid milestone spam for levelgen failure. 20:48:21 03pointless_ 07stone_soup-0.6 * rf65b998c6f9c 10/crawl-ref/source/spells4.cc: Don't override input beam range in cast_evaporate 20:48:23 03pointless_ 07stone_soup-0.6 * ra1980cadbe91 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-cast.cc: Always prompt for self targeting with non SPFLAG_HELPFUL spells 20:48:24 03pointless_ 07stone_soup-0.6 * r2a69eb68b749 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Make bolt::agent return the last actor to reflect a beam 20:48:25 03j-p-e-g 07stone_soup-0.6 * r041ae854caf3 10/crawl-ref/source/command.cc: Fix #954: Bad linebreak in xe documentation. 20:48:27 03sorear 07stone_soup-0.6 * r0c53c257661d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (9 files): Revert demonspawn to 0.5 system 20:48:44 !tell ixtli Looking great! Are you planning to do a similar abstraction for OpenGL/OpenGL ES? 20:48:45 Enne: OK, I'll let ixtli know. 21:00:41 Random curiosity: did wanderers ever get redone? 21:02:38 Master branch on CDO updated to: 0.6.0-a2-438-g0c53c25 (16.6) 21:02:40 redone? 21:15:41 is the "prompt before walking into miasma" thing a 0.6 target? 21:15:45 it seems like it would be nice to have 21:19:48 -!- Twinge- has joined ##crawl-dev 21:23:14 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:24:55 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 21:26:13 Iainuki_: They're redone! 21:26:33 greensnark, Yay! 21:26:38 I should try a new Wn, but I hear they're ridiculously easy :P 21:27:04 Oh :P? 21:27:05 Hey, crawl-ref should actually redirect to develz 21:27:08 -!- Twinge- has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:27:14 I thought the whole point of the Wanderer was that they were ridiculously hard? 21:27:43 Well, I was kidding about "ridiculously hard", but you can tell I'm not enthusiastic about the Wn changes :P 21:27:47 No, they were supposed to be random. 21:27:53 Er I was kidding about "ridiculously easy" 21:27:57 As it was, they were just sort of lame and sucked :P. 21:28:21 greensnark, If you really want a challenge class, put one in :P. 21:28:27 -!- Twinge- has joined ##crawl-dev 21:28:39 can we remove thief until things are added to the game to make them not just "assassin, but worse"? 21:28:49 doy, It would be nice! 21:28:56 doy: There's a shortage of hard classes :P 21:29:22 We could rename Th to Ze(ro)s, start them with no equipment and no skills! 21:29:27 I would play that 21:29:39 (: 21:29:39 greensnark, :) 21:29:43 Go for it! 21:29:59 It's hardly as difficult as powergamers make it out to be :P 21:30:11 As the NaPa winners in the room will admit :P 21:30:13 -!- Enne has quit [Quit: Enne] 21:31:10 What, Th? 21:31:21 No, the hypothetical Ze :) 21:31:46 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:31:51 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 21:32:25 why is miasma not slowing things? 21:33:04 oh, only occasionally 21:33:07 is that new? 21:33:11 -!- Twinge- has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:33:48 greensnark, No equipment and no skills wouldn't be that bad, though I'm not going to call it easy. 21:33:58 TGW: I don't think it's changed 21:34:24 Iainuki_: Right, I was suggesting it as the new challenge class, since Wn are now gimped in the challenge department :) 21:34:30 -!- Twinge- has joined ##crawl-dev 21:35:03 greensnark, Go right ahead! 21:35:20 I'd probably call it something like "noble," though. 21:35:31 Hah :) 21:35:57 Is there any reason why crawl-ref.sourceforge.net doesn't actually redirect to develz? 21:36:24 Can give a nice 15s delay if we want visitors to revel in the glory of being over SF :P 21:36:27 -!- yobbo has joined ##crawl-dev 21:37:37 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:37:42 "Your heraldry and boot-licking skills are useless here!" 21:38:17 Does the class array still use a fixed size? 21:38:54 Well, adding a class will probably mean messing with a dozen unrelated source files as usual 21:39:01 greensnark: i recommended that, people didn't seem to pay attention 21:39:02 (: 21:39:14 Ok, let me go do it :) 21:39:44 As usual I will need 15 minutes to rediscover how to access the files on SF, 1 minute for the actual change :P 21:39:51 :P 21:41:04 * Iainuki_ sighs. 21:41:32 At some point I should look at actually editing the source. 21:48:27 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 21:51:33 -!- Twinge- has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:53:07 -!- Twinge- has joined ##crawl-dev 21:55:53 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:56:25 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 21:57:16 Iainuki_: Iainukian wanderers have been in for the entire 0.5.x release cycle. 21:57:33 'Iainukian' is a great word 21:58:03 :) 21:58:10 I've been out of touch, alas. 21:58:13 I need to play some, clearly. 21:58:25 I need something else to do besides job applications, anyways, right? 21:58:33 yeah, you do 21:59:21 -!- Twinge- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:01:15 -!- Twinge- has joined ##crawl-dev 22:04:45 New goblin(oid) tile (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=958) by purge 22:04:45 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:04:47 whew, finally finished! That tile took a while heh 22:06:39 -!- DrPraetorious has joined ##crawl-dev 22:07:44 a - a runed gold dragon armour 5120 gold 22:08:14 wrong channel 22:09:22 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:09:55 -!- TGW has left ##crawl-dev 22:18:08 -!- Iainuki_ has quit [Quit: Iainuki_] 22:24:03 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 22:27:09 -!- Twinge- has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:41 -!- hashc has joined ##crawl-dev 22:33:21 -!- timecircuits has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:54:17 -!- raydarken has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:55:31 03doy * rb97dc12012d0 10/crawl-ref/source/dgn-overview.cc: fix hiding nonexistent lair branch in overview 23:06:14 -!- timecircuits has joined ##crawl-dev 23:08:53 -!- timecircuits has left ##crawl-dev 23:14:15 -!- Twinge- has joined ##crawl-dev 23:17:29 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:18:58 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 23:21:52 -!- Twinge- has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:22:15 -!- Twinge- has joined ##crawl-dev 23:24:58 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:31:10 Ok, Shoals is way too easy :P 23:31:23 We'll have to fix that in 0.7 :P 23:32:40 03doy * rc6b7860ed39c 10/crawl-ref/source/travel.cc: fix travel cache not being initialized until the X map is viewed 23:32:41 greensnark: can you look at this patch ^^? 23:32:48 i'm not incredibly familiar with the travel code 23:34:33 Sure, pulling 23:35:26 mostly, i'm just wondering if there's a better place that should be happening 23:35:46 Hm, what was the bug this fixes? 23:36:10 when you looked at the ^O screen, it would show (0/27) for branch depth of the dungeon until you looked at the X map 23:36:30 because it's using the travel_cache to find the deepest explored level 23:36:34 Oh 23:36:42 So the problem would be only for D:1 23:36:47 yeah, i think 23:36:50 Travel cache updates whenever you move across stairs 23:36:59 ah, okay 23:37:18 so maybe putting that update in the initialization of d:1 would be better 23:37:31 Yes, just update travel cache on newgame init 23:38:11 Can't update LevelInfo unless you're on that level, because it looks at map knowledge 23:38:21 Should I fix this? 23:38:53 when would it matter? 23:39:19 I don't understand the question :) 23:39:31 oh 23:39:40 i didn't understand your question(: 23:39:41 sure 23:39:47 Oh what I'm saying is the ->update() call on level_id != current won't work right 23:39:53 yeah, got it 23:39:53 (: 23:40:06 And I was asking if I should do the newgame-init-travle-cache thing 23:40:29 yeah, go for it 23:45:09 The Shoals are easily doable at XL 14, don't know why players keep treating it with exaggerated respect :P 23:45:22 I think that brief period of super javelineers and impalers scared everyone :P 23:45:50 * elly is playing crawl in a very noob manner :P 23:46:05 Everybody dies early, think nothing of it :) 23:47:30 revert all the recent merfolk changes, then 23:47:42 hide it in a bugfix patch so doy will accidentally chery it 23:47:53 a large bugfix patch 23:48:03 i do read patches, you know d: 23:48:50 hm 23:49:02 I should probably start not playing random R/C combos 23:56:05 ??magical portal 23:56:06 wizlab[1/1]: Neat new portal vault in 0.6. 23:56:11 ??wizlab 23:56:12 wizlab[1/1]: Neat new portal vault in 0.6. 23:56:17 Is it timed?