00:22:56 change it to tail slap the hobgoblin! 00:23:01 submit a feature request! 00:25:52 Spell description of Ozocub's Armour needs adjustment (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=917) by Vandal 00:28:11 -!- permagreen has joined ##crawl-dev 00:41:19 Good morning 00:41:19 Napkin: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 00:43:43 -!- elly has quit [Quit: switching irssi over] 00:46:09 -!- elly has joined ##crawl-dev 00:46:37 -!- Spads has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:46:51 -!- elly has quit [Client Quit] 00:48:28 -!- elly has joined ##crawl-dev 00:53:22 sorear? are you in? 00:54:37 yes 00:56:16 Hi 00:56:34 trying to figure out why you blank version when you modified the issue 00:57:11 I believe it's some auto-form-fill-in-feature of your browser, but I'm checking the code nevertheless 00:57:44 How did you close that bug? Did you use the "Change Status To"-button or did you click "Update Issue"? 00:59:28 Update Issue 00:59:34 ok 00:59:51 out of curiousity - why not the "Change Status To"-button? 01:01:40 because if I do that, I have to add a note as a separate transaction iirc 01:01:46 and I don't like spamming the list 01:01:53 with split transactions 01:02:16 no, wrongly informed 01:02:54 the window following that button always presents you with a field to give a bug-note 01:03:18 I must have mistaken that for it sending me back to the main ticket screen 01:03:41 it usually doesn't do that either 01:03:53 but i've seen it happen too, yes 01:04:40 might depend on the status you switched to 01:05:01 anyways, could I be right about this auto-form feature? 01:05:36 unlikely but possible 01:05:54 anyways, now that my mismemory has been corrected, I'll be using update issue a lot less 01:06:01 Some dead can't walk... (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=918) by nubinia 01:06:07 -!- permagreen has quit [Quit: Welcome to the real world] 01:06:51 I'm still checking the code nevertheless - this I've never seen that happening before, I didn't see that it shows "version" in the history instead of "Product Branch" 01:07:00 *since I've never seen 01:10:12 does is show "(select)" for "Product Branch" when you are in the update screen? 01:14:45 there is no "version" field in the update screen 01:15:02 Product Branch is (select) for issue 918 01:15:12 i know, that's a bug of the history showing "version" instead of "Product Branch" 01:15:37 it should not show "(select)"... that's weird 01:15:56 what does the source code say? what browser are you using? 01:16:26 -code 01:17:08 01:17:21 after Product Branch 01:17:40 ELinks 0.12pre5 01:18:04 ok, I get it.. elinks is not handling the fact well, that 2 values are selected 01:18:10 oh, wait 01:18:17 it should show more options? 01:18:21 in the source 01:18:54 why are 2 values selected? 01:19:11 yes, 0.6 is also selected 01:19:26 because the php dealing with is piece of beautiful code sucks, sorear :) 01:20:19 elinks doesn't behave like every other browser then - but I guess it's a matter of taste how to deal with this.. 01:20:36 -!- ahyangyi has joined ##crawl-dev 01:20:38 i'll try to get that fixed 01:20:40 what do other browsers do? use the last selected field? 01:20:43 thanks for checking 01:20:44 yes 01:20:59 Wow! hello everyone this is my first time to use IRC :) 01:21:06 nice to see so many people here 01:21:19 hello ahyangyi 01:21:27 Hello and welcome. 01:21:38 may I ask a small question, anyway? 01:21:42 of course 01:22:03 i can't find "create this page" button on the dokuwiki 01:22:14 what's wrong? 01:22:15 there isn't one 01:22:22 ouch 01:22:29 which page would you like to create? 01:22:34 so what shall i do if i'm to create one? 01:22:48 well, i just want to know in case of i need one :) 01:22:50 ask someone with a higher security clearance 01:23:04 page creation rights are limited on the wiki - it made sense at the time 01:23:12 i agree 01:23:21 thanks!! 01:27:49 ahyangyi: what did you want to add? 01:28:52 well, it's stupid - i was trying to make a user page 01:29:18 and one or two brainstorms that may never look good quality 01:29:52 so i'd better think clearer before asking one of you for creating a page :) 01:31:07 user pages.. that's a good point 01:31:45 I wonder if non-priveledged users should be allowed to make brainstorms 01:32:19 it makes sense that feedback and content pages should be restricted 01:32:24 does it? 01:33:18 feedback pages are created for a new feature by the devs adding the features 01:33:28 it doesn't really make sense for a non-committer to make one? 01:34:25 content pages exist for everything in Crawl, and don't exist for everything not in Crawl, their creation and deletion is entirely under Ero's purvue 01:34:33 the wiki seems to be relatively self-policing enough at this point that allowing general access wouldn't be an issue 01:34:45 though i will admit that i have totally fallen off the face of ##crawl-dev 01:34:55 so i might've missed any incidents 01:35:09 purview seems to be the word I want 01:35:37 sorear: Whatt does that mean? 01:35:52 2. Limit or sphere of authority; scope; extent. 01:35:52 [1913 Webster] 01:36:21 Well, I meant what do you mean it's the word you want? 01:36:24 well, you can create a user page now, ahyangyi. you do it this way: use the top-right to search for "user:ahyangyi" (or whatever username you registered with on the Mantis), then click "Create this page" at the top-left. 01:37:01 Madtrixr: I typed purvue and it looked wrong, so I went looking for the correct word 01:37:10 Ah. 01:37:23 Yeah, Purview is correct. 01:47:05 Yo...I got a noob-ass question. 01:47:40 what's that? 01:48:10 Um...How do I play on CDO? Do I have to be a dev or something? 01:48:26 check the ##crawl topic 01:48:36 or read here: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/?page_id=8 01:48:37 there are two ways 01:48:39 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/?page_id=8 01:48:50 oh, i'm too slow :( 01:49:13 ahyangyi, did you get my private message here in irc? 01:49:40 yes 01:49:50 good :) 01:50:20 btw 01:50:38 how long is your latency when playing on CDO? 01:50:56 Napkin's is probably like 0.002s 01:51:06 considering that he lives in Germany and all that 01:51:14 mine is ~150ms 01:51:15 lol 01:51:38 hmm, it's 218 today 01:51:42 unusually bad 01:52:18 Mine would probably be close to yours. 01:52:25 hmm, me too 01:52:47 Madtrixr: you would think so, but it doesn't always work that way 01:53:01 True...What's your conn? 01:53:07 sorear: dlb is Don Brodale. 01:53:30 the Internet isn't wired straight, it's more of a tree thing 01:53:46 well, you have a pretty awesome ping with 300ms, ahyangyi - considering you are in China 01:53:50 from one major city to another, latency is great (194ms from San Diego to Helsinki at this moment) 01:53:56 most from china have >=700 01:54:04 well 01:54:08 so i'm mistiming 01:54:13 move a few hundred miles away to Arizona and you've got 3000+ms to the same server 01:54:18 instead of having a fast connection 01:54:26 despite being physically closer 01:54:57 I'm guessing Fresno is worse than SD, but not nearly as bad as the desert 01:55:04 it depends on what companies your ISP relies on. 01:55:08 That's my guess. 01:55:34 Also good morning all. :) 01:55:50 good afternoon!! 01:56:10 perhaps i should be more patient when playing on CDO 01:56:11 Hi ahyangyi, welcome. :) 01:56:32 i've got ~90ms to CDO 01:56:47 I play so slowly that the usual lag is not an issue to me. :) 01:56:48 Eronarn lives in Boston 01:56:53 aka MIT 01:57:03 Moin Eino :) 01:57:18 Okay, I seem to have 46ms ping to CDO right now, maybe I should shut up about it. 01:57:28 i live a state over, actually 01:57:46 but the states in NE are small, anyways 01:57:52 (also, i have 20ms to CAO) 02:00:12 * sorear has 20ms to NAO 02:00:17 or used to anyway 02:00:55 wow, it only went up to 32 after the hosting move 02:01:17 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 02:09:17 sorear? when "Change Status To" "resolved" - the field "Fixed in Branch" is "(select)" too - right? 02:12:33 let me try it 02:13:08 what innocent ticket shall I use for my experiments? 02:18:46 looks like #76 is closable 02:19:04 03by * rdbe6f3423d44 10/crawl-ref/source/skills2.cc: Round last remaining aptitude to 10. 02:19:05 03by * rf1296fcc7ac8 10/crawl-ref/source/skills2.cc: Divide aptitudes by 10. 02:19:06 03by * rc51bf27d80d1 10/crawl-ref/source/skills2.cc: Show positive aptitudes with '+' in skill screen. 02:19:08 oh 02:19:09 03by * r3f2df81a22d4 10/crawl-ref/source/util/gen-apt.pl: Show positive aptitudes with '+' in aptitudes.txt (except Exp). 02:19:12 you wanted Resolved 02:23:28 arg 02:23:32 you are too fast 02:24:03 ah, you didn't change yet, good 02:24:09 there is no need to "submit" 02:24:30 just click "Change Status To" and look at the upcoming page 02:24:40 no need to submit the changed then 02:25:29 ah 02:25:38 I wondered if the whole thing was atomic 02:25:47 no, it's not 02:25:50 :) 02:25:53 anyways - Fixed in Branch is (select) for #333 02:26:05 ok, as I guessed 02:26:11 same problem in that form 02:26:40 thank you 02:26:45 will try to fix that 02:27:25 even though.. I didn't change anything about "(select)" in the update-issue page 02:27:36 so it's mantis design to have it like that 02:27:52 we'll probably stumble over a few more of these issues, sorear 02:29:15 ick. Well, I'll just stay on the lookout for (select) in mantis forms I'm about to submit 02:29:21 and thanks for the ones you've fixed 02:31:35 sadly, nothing to thank for yet - as I'm still debating how to fix it ;) 02:34:53 Ero: re.incidents - were you here for KingSlime? 02:35:13 no 02:35:22 good 02:40:09 'well, that was easy' 02:42:38 sorear, could you check those 2 we just checked again? might be fixed now 02:42:42 please :) 02:43:21 and just clicking Update / Change Status does nothing if I don't submit the followup form? 02:43:52 exactly 02:45:08 i think.. only the "Assign to"-Button does an immediate action 02:45:27 oh, and "Monitor Issue" 02:47:49 -!- Ero has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:49:18 Fixed in Branch [(select)_________] 02:49:33 where is that from? 02:49:33 oh wait 02:49:37 Update Issue 02:49:43 yes, no default there 02:50:04 only in the "change status to" the default is set - otherwise too dangerous 02:51:02 Product Branch is set correctly. 02:51:05 Thank you! 02:51:09 hooray :)) 02:51:45 Please let me know if more wrongly "selected" show up :) 03:00:02 If I want the OP to close something, I do 'feedback'? 03:02:31 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:10:58 OP? 03:11:07 issue reporter? 03:11:33 original poster 03:11:35 I suggest "resolve" - he can close or reopen then 03:11:53 ok 03:11:55 I usually add that as hint though "please close this issue if your happy with the solution" 03:12:20 resolved issue will show up in the "Awaiting Confirmation of Resolution from Me" of the OP 03:13:04 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 03:13:23 resolved also prevents other non-devs, non-related persons to add their wise comments ;> 03:13:27 Moin dpeg! 03:13:32 Hallo! 03:13:44 Wie schaut's? :) 03:13:50 Arbeit! :) 03:13:56 Urlaub! :D 03:14:02 win \o/ 03:14:06 :-P 03:16:32 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:48 good morning 03:17:24 Moin Rob! 03:17:42 Hallo! 03:17:46 dpeg! 03:17:49 Just the man I wanted to see 03:17:59 sorear ressurected the very first ticket I ever submitted on Mantis 03:18:07 It got me looking at the Halfling revision wiki page 03:18:12 I had a thought 03:18:16 Halflings are really good now 03:18:26 So good they don't need Giantslaying trait that I described 03:18:57 but what if you gave it to Dwarves (more fitting anyway) and made them a Small race? Kind of making up for their now restricted weapon usage 03:19:08 it would soften the blow 03:19:14 and be a cool racial 03:19:44 I only thought of this after being reminded you wanted to make Dwarves small 03:19:49 which makes sense and would be cool 03:19:58 they would be the small armour specialist race 03:20:00 which doens't exist yet 03:20:36 by: aptitudes are so much better now, many thanks! 03:20:37 dpeg: would you reply re sorear's Inv/Evo/Spc mail? 03:20:55 by made a new aptitudes table? 03:21:03 no problem, I agree it's an improvement 03:21:07 by: once I get there, yes. Slowly digging through the heap of mails. 03:21:13 ok, good 03:21:20 oh, sorry dpeg, didn't realize you were busy 03:21:39 Vandal: too many words for right now. Why not add your ideas to the wiki (either for dwarf or halfling)? 03:23:16 Well the idea is yours and mine 03:23:21 and they're both already on the Halfling page 03:23:26 I just wanted your thoughts 03:23:39 but that is fine, we can talk later 03:23:40 I'm going to bed 03:24:24 dpeg: Hey, you've already added a "Bugs are no longer submitted here, please go to mantis" -messages? Awesome! 03:27:15 Keskitalo: yes, I did! In an attempt to cover up my inability to close the tracker properly :) 03:27:30 Vandal: ask me next time, sorry for no time 03:27:35 I think I'll disable posting new items now, but leave them generally visible for a few days. 03:27:49 Then, make them only visible for project members. 03:27:53 ok 03:28:14 I'll try to figure out places where to post big flashing GO TO CDO/MANTIS signs. 03:30:30 Hey, Matthew is back. 03:30:56 Yeah, yay! 03:33:04 -!- ahyangyi has quit [] 03:34:06 Hmmh, not sure if I can disable posting new items.. need to dive into the documentation-. 03:35:02 Looks like it's not possible. Well, I'll look for the places to post signs now. 03:36:32 <3 the apts.. I don't really have an opinion as a player, but simply the sight of going forward with the change warms my heart. :) 03:37:25 I echo this sentiment. 03:37:59 I, of course, disagree with the details, but that doesn't preclude <3 progress 03:44:26 Hmph, there's not too many places to post the signs on SF. I've added a news item, but that's not on the top of any page and will get drowned out by commits unless the page viewer digs for news items specifically. 03:45:14 sorear: is it just the Spc/Inv/Evo thing (don't have a strong opinion there), or do you see other problems? 03:45:24 Project Description and Project Homepage on the summary page are the most editable things in there. 03:45:43 It's too bad I can't put anything to point to mantis on the "Develop" page.. 03:46:41 by: really it's just my numberphilia 03:46:48 ok :) 03:47:12 Heh, I can add "Go to http://crawl.develz.org !" to the project description without exceeding the character limit. :) 03:47:36 Keskitalo: let's get git hosting on another site and delete the project 03:47:59 Probably the best thing is to overhaul http://crawl-ref.sourceforge.net 03:48:03 sorear: Yeah (plus mailing list) 03:48:24 (and not delete, but archive) 03:49:42 I actually did simply insert "See http://crawl.develz.org !" in the summary page description :) 03:51:19 -!- Eifeltrampel has joined ##crawl-dev 03:51:35 Heya Eifeltrampel! 03:51:50 Hey Keskitalo! 03:51:54 Hello. 03:53:09 sorear: <3 deleting the SF project 03:53:22 burning our bridges, hiding our traces :) 03:53:50 sorear: If you are unhappy with particular aptitudes (or my roundind), just say so. These can be tweaked. 03:54:02 sorear: also, many thanks for the replies on Mantis. 03:54:23 dpeg: it's a nice theory but we'd need someplace to move to first - the public githosts I know have terrible uptime 03:54:27 dpeg: sure 03:55:54 cdo might be able to handle it - but I have no permissions concept yet 03:57:11 also - you might want to spread out services instead of focussing everything in one place - even if it's convenient (shared login data, etc) 03:58:33 Napkin: why? 03:58:38 Too much burden for you? 03:59:12 i don't think the burden is too much - but.. even if CDO uptime is good.. it's still the internet ;) 03:59:18 Can I remove "fun" from all the descriptions of Crawl I see? It's very redundant for games, it's absolutely feeble to advertise a game as "fun" :) 03:59:32 Keskitalo: Darshan is very fond of the "fun", I think :) 03:59:38 He's been adding it all over the place. 03:59:43 hehe 03:59:53 Bad greensnark! 04:00:08 I think he is implicitly comparing Crawl with games like ADOM and Nethack, which are clearly not fun. 04:01:18 * Napkin should add the word fun to the wordpress title! 04:01:43 Keskitalo: you see? "A _fun_ game in the tradition of Hack, Moria..." as opposed to "An _unfun_ game in the tradition..." 04:02:07 "Crawl is a fundamentalist game in the tradition of..." 04:02:15 getting some secret service coverage :) 04:02:16 * bhaak goes google-fighting "nethack fun" vs "crawl fun" 04:02:30 hehe 04:03:16 7260 vs 614000 win crawl fun 04:03:21 win \o/ 04:03:24 bam! 04:03:26 ;-) 04:03:56 i'm having 56.100 versus 5.270.000 :D 04:04:05 cheater!!!! 04:04:11 or 86.600 (dungeon crawl fun) 04:04:24 but also: "nethack unfun" 49 vs "crawl unfun" 858 04:04:46 conclusion: Crawl is 20 times more popular 04:04:58 remember: it's the haters who count 04:05:25 "dungeon crawl unfun" -> 402; "nethack unfun" -> 1270 04:05:45 shit, sorry, sorear ;) 04:06:05 we all know Google uses a RNG to generate result counts 04:06:08 Napkin: eh? 04:06:23 google-fight seems to be on a different internet than we are :) 04:06:37 not wise to post that result after you profound statement :D 04:07:11 *your profound conclusion 04:08:04 so.. dpeg.. >= [mantis rank dev] should have write access to the git repository? 04:08:12 dungeon crawl stone soup sucks -> 4,260; dungeon crawl sucks -> 23,900; nethack sucks -> 71,300 :) 04:08:23 lol, bhaak 04:08:38 bhaak: you win!!! :D 04:08:44 Napkin: yes. 04:09:18 unnethack sucks -> 161; "nethack-de" sucks -> 99 04:11:04 dpeg: yes, because the following is still true: 04:11:07 ??bhaak 04:11:07 bhaak[1/3]: Still believes that Nethack is the most popular roguelike. 04:11:37 http://crawl-ref.sourceforge.net/ 04:11:52 ??bhaak[2] 04:11:52 bhaak[2/3]: Also believes that the earth is flat. 04:11:57 rofl 04:12:08 bhaak: the unwashed masses play tiles, and they assume that the larger pair of words on the splash screen is the name of the game 04:12:16 bhaak: try searching for "stone soup sucks" 04:12:17 ??bhaak[3] 04:12:17 bhaak[3/3]: Happens to maintain a Nethack fork, UnNethack. If you're curious how a Nethack with some thoughts spent on balance could look like, give it a try: http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/ 04:14:09 "stone soup sucks" -> 3; "stone soup" sucks -> 16,900; stone soup sucks -> 33,400; still no luck :-P 04:15:14 how does sourceforge git access work? username and password? does it use ssh-keys? anybody heard of an alternative to http://wiki.dreamhost.com/Gitosis ? 04:16:06 bhaak: do you believe that Nethack's top spot can ever be shaken? :) 04:17:01 Napkin: sourceforge git access is piggybacked on the shell service 04:17:20 I don't know anything about sourceforge - explain about shell service? 04:17:59 to every sourceforge account, there exists a UNIX account 04:18:06 you can ssh into their machine farm 04:18:34 oh, they give accounts with real shell access? 04:18:39 yes 04:18:56 insofar as you can call a shell on a sandboxed VM a real shell 04:19:25 heh 04:19:37 it actually works something like this - they have a pool of VMs running on their machine farm, when you ssh in you're assigned a VM and then you can access project data over NFS 04:19:38 what OS/distribution are they running? 04:19:54 Linux/something 04:20:02 yes, I thought it would be something like that 04:20:10 they're owned by a commercial Linux distributor, so I bet VA Linux 04:20:11 wouldn't be reasonable otherwise 04:20:31 so.. and they allow login via password? 04:20:39 dpeg: I am not sure. but not necessarily because it is the embodiement of "THE RL" but because the current version will probably be playable in 10-20 years without changes to the source. And because of that it will be dragged on to linux 3.4 and windows 9 and os xx. So there will always be new players and old veterans that recount their stories when they first fell victim to a poisonous pit while wielding a cockatrice 04:21:11 Napkin: via password by default, with an awkward and confusing interface to add public keys to your account 04:21:19 bhaak: so you say that non-development actually cements the pole position? Interesting... 04:21:40 merely editing ~/.ssh/authorized_keys doesn't work - $HOME is on tmpfs and gets cleared out every login 04:21:45 dpeg: I don't think crawl will be a threat to that top position (because it is more-or-less just a normal RL), but DF or something that shakes the concept of RL even further might take that position 04:21:55 well.. even is awkward and confusing - it is an interface at least :) 04:22:10 *even if 04:22:29 I wouldn't be able to provide that out of the box 04:22:41 bhaak: of course, I disagree. I am convinced that Crawl will slowly nibble away from Nethack's popularity. I hope that the next few tournaments will already show this. 04:23:20 anyone expecting big whining, when being forced to use git-ssh via key? 04:23:28 dpeg: within the RL community, that's probable. But maybe not in the computer community as a whole. 04:23:58 playing tiles online is a huge step 04:24:07 bhaak: I don't think that NH is an asset of computer gaming as such. Hack, Moria and Rogue all became obscure, too. 04:24:14 Napkin: yes, that will come. 04:24:25 * Napkin points at Eifeltrampel again * 04:24:32 Napkin: don't expect big whining. 04:24:39 Napkin: I use git-ssh via key already, I was whining back when I thought SF was password-only 04:24:53 hehe, sorear :) 04:25:04 Napkin: I would appreciate it if I could use my existing private key, though - reconfiguring .sshrc is a pain 04:25:22 for IdentityFile lines 04:25:23 btw, http://crawl.develz.org has 286k hits this month already - and still 4 days left :D 04:25:53 ("hits" according to awstats, which filters spiders/bots) 04:26:34 dpeg: those became obscure (well, hack was more obsoleted) way faster. nethack is strangely still going strong 04:26:35 Who's pointing at me??? And why??? ;-) 04:26:49 let's play tiles online, Eifel :> 04:27:24 for which version are online tiles planned? 04:27:52 Ok! rdy when you are!! *g* 04:27:56 bhaak: 0.4 04:28:24 sorear: okay, and when will it be implemented? 04:28:38 hehe.. still haven't checked the code you sent me, Eifeltrampel :-$ 04:28:52 hehe 04:29:16 sorear: didn't know .sshrc existed.. is that like .ssh/config ? 04:30:08 bhaak: I am not so sure about "strong". 04:30:11 Napkin: I'm talking about the file described in ssh_config(5), whatever its name 04:30:13 "host ; identify " - that usually all you need to configure for ssh to force the proper key (without trying all by default) 04:31:04 *identity 04:31:17 ok, then we're talking about the same thing, sorear 04:32:17 dpeg: have you compared the download numbers? alone on sf.net, nethack still has 2-3 times the downloads of DCSS! (I have no clue why, though) 04:32:42 git checkouts are logged? 04:33:59 bhaak: the download numbers on SF cannot be real 04:34:09 Napkin: https://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php?group_id=143991&ugn=crawl-ref&type=git&mode=12months 04:34:57 bhaak: I checked this once with my sister... it would be mean that an insane number of humans play Nethack, there must be bot-work going in. 04:35:00 *on 04:35:08 I don't really want to see Crawl become a *popular* game 04:35:29 Ok...need a cron job for git checkouts every 5mins!!! 04:35:30 ;-) 04:35:48 * Napkin whispers: CDO is doing that already :-P 04:36:11 -!- Vandal has quit [] 04:37:14 ok.. SF is just so sucky now.. *sigh* how do I get to the statistics when looking at a project? 04:37:37 dpeg: do you really think sf wouldn't detect bots? the numbers look rather natural. it's quite possible that those include default installations by linux distribution (but IIRC ~50% of the downloads are win32). but those numbers should be equally skewed for crawl, slashem, etc. 04:38:00 Napkin: first press Develop, from there you'll find it easily 04:38:21 sorear: there is so much truth in that. But what I hate even more (than Crawl becoming more popular) is seeing an ill-designed game like NH considered to be the pinnacle of rogueliking. 04:39:10 tried that, bhaak - but I failed 04:39:16 I think the tournament turnouts are the best numbers for comparison purposes. 04:39:29 but that is the case in a lot of areas. Often "most popular" != "best" 04:40:02 ok, fuck SF - giving up 04:40:06 hi 04:40:11 Napkin: oh, I thought "Statistics" was in the tabs. After pressing Develop, hover over Develop :-) 04:40:29 jesus christ! thanks, bhaak 04:40:59 due: Hi there! 04:41:10 Napkin: "fuck" is okay. But now also JC? 04:41:24 I haven't finished the ply-testing post. 04:41:49 I'm oging to finish up 'til Monday and leaveit at that, unless there aren't too many changes. 04:42:07 sorry :-S 04:42:23 JC = Jerry Cornelius. 04:42:49 Napkin: "himmel, arsch und zwirn" haetten weniger verstanden :-D 04:43:11 oder wie ich immer sage, "eine gottverdammte Scheiße", aber da kommt ja auch Gott drin vor 04:43:27 hehe, hätte auch gepasst ;) 04:43:27 due: I am doing 0.6 testing! (random good combos to XL 9) 04:43:53 excellent 04:44:00 well, statistics for NH are difficult to analyze - since they have too much files there 04:44:02 At least it's not Spanish swearing. 04:44:06 bhaak: I fully agree with best != popular, which is also what sorear was saying. It is just that NH being most popular hurts. DF being on top doesn't move me at all. 04:44:11 It's like "I shit on the cross, Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary." 04:44:21 sorear: I have accidentally deleted your Evo email. Could you send again to me? 04:44:59 dpeg: yeah, I think we all know about your special relationship with NH :) 04:46:13 Hi due! 04:46:58 Hi Keskitalo! 04:47:05 Loved the Che Nagavara post! 04:47:10 due: SF trackers nearly closed, will put a proper cork on them on March 1st. 04:47:13 due: Thanks. :) 04:47:41 dpeg: done 04:47:49 Awesome! 04:47:55 I need to fix troves. 04:47:56 I just had to start another, now that I know to wear more ponde and spam Slouch :) 04:51:53 oh, a new 3d version of nethack? http://sourceforge.net/projects/nethack3d/ 04:52:00 looks like real 3d 04:52:56 not really new, but not a lot work happens there 04:52:57 how can you spam slouch? 04:53:12 i'm down to ** because of spamming "bend time" 04:53:25 there's also that dungeon master like nethack, but it crashes on my intel mac 04:53:43 could you link me, please? 04:55:01 Napkin: http://www.sbrain.org/nethack3d/index.html 04:55:19 thanks :) 04:55:34 Napkin: Well, I mean to just "use it more" - you did watch my Swamp rune chamber, right? :) 04:56:26 uuh.. how haxy.. and maxosc only? pfui 04:56:53 ohooh, what did I miss, Eino? :D 04:57:19 bhaak: stop distracting napkin please :p 04:58:09 sorear: crawl's got more than enough developer :-) 04:58:37 bhaak: napkin is doing something I've been pleading for for months, something only he can do 04:59:10 omg - awesome, Eino :D 04:59:43 hehe, a single point of failure :-) 05:01:32 oohh, nonono, those were just very innocent questions about how SF's git access works, sorear :-P 05:02:10 bhaak: resume distraction. 05:02:29 Napkin: you know noegnud? 05:02:44 and.. omg nooo, i'm not a developer, bhaak :D 05:03:09 yeah, that and falcon's made me stop to try playing nethack ;) 05:03:19 how's that? 05:03:30 s/developer/contributor :) 05:04:34 old, not being developed, a million options needed to be edited in the interface itself without descriptions of what they do, complining problem.. gtk1, if I remember correctly? (at that time at least) 05:04:39 !lm Eronarn noun~=bailey 05:04:39 Malformed argument: noun~=bailey 05:04:54 !lm Eronarn noun=~bailey 05:04:55 that's when I started playing dungeon crawl with those tiles from the japanese guy 05:04:57 4. [2010-01-04] Eronarn the Prestidigitator (L8 DDAr) entered a Bailey on turn 7531. (Bailey) 05:05:08 !lm Eronarn noun=~bailey -tv 05:05:09 4. Eronarn, XL8 DDAr, T:7531 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 05:05:29 falcon/vulture eyes looks nice, but *I* can't play more than a few turns with it 05:06:06 bhaak: right now, we have two single points of failure. 05:06:19 and one of them is teetering 05:06:35 ah, no i remember noegnud - for some reason i found it's way of display more cumbersome than useful.. don't remember why 05:06:40 noegnud OTOH is rather playable, if you like the 3d/raytracing look: http://images.google.com/images?q=noegnud 05:07:11 !lm Eronarn noun=~bailey -2 -tv 05:07:12 3. Eronarn, XL8 DDAr, T:7083 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 05:07:17 sorear: is teetering a word or a person? 05:07:27 I don't.. it just wasn't my thing 05:10:23 but of course i'd like to play a bit of nethack and see what it's about 05:10:41 but.. i'm afraid i will have to read a million pages of spoilers first :-/ 05:11:12 !lm Eronarn noun=~bailey -tv 05:11:12 4. Eronarn, XL8 DDAr, T:7531 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 05:12:01 in the poll, there were people who enjoyed it that way O_o but most just read spoilers when they feel like they need it 05:12:06 wow! the test char i created to show my dad how I have setup tiles my laptop (1024x600) found an amulet of faith in D1 - MDBe! 05:12:08 but there's a tutorial on un.nethack.nu 05:12:17 can't just quit him now :D 05:12:36 !lm Eronarn noun=~bailey x=gameid 05:12:36 Unknown selector gameid in gameid 05:12:39 !lm Eronarn noun=~bailey x=game_id 05:12:40 4. [2010-01-04] [game_id=586090] Eronarn the Prestidigitator (L8 DDAr) entered a Bailey on turn 7531. (Bailey) 05:12:54 !log Eronarn id=586090 05:12:55 1. Eronarn, XL14 DDAr, T:36594: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Eronarn/morgue-Eronarn-20100107-033857.txt 05:12:55 bhaak: teetering is an adjective, used to describe sourceforge's instabilities of late 05:13:16 should I try your unnethack instead of the original nethack? 05:13:22 sorear: instabilities? I didn't notice any instabilities 05:13:58 am i seeing a highscore list when going to http://un.nethack.nu/, bhaak? 05:14:18 Napkin: yes, definitely 05:14:20 Napkin: in the early game it's almost like vanilla nethack. The last large review said it is vanilla nethack evolved. 05:14:28 Napkin: if you play NH at all, use Un or Spork. 05:14:32 so where's that tutorial? 05:14:43 Napkin: in-game :) 05:14:59 Napkin: it's not a highscore list, but a list of the last played games 05:15:44 i tried in-game tutorial on un.nethack.nu - it's quite a bit to read 05:15:56 some other time - but not forgotten :) 05:16:21 yeah, I know. there is no markup in the text yet. Vanilla doesn't support it and my local modifications for it aren't yet finalized 05:16:24 well, I expected to read a little bit about unnethack on that website ;) 05:16:50 that's what the wiki is for: http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Unnethack 05:18:03 hm, I should link the 'Let's Play' thread into that page 05:18:31 oh pity - you have such a nice hostname - why not gather your stuff on it (wordpress, trac, description)? 05:18:51 it's not my server :) 05:19:29 pity indeed :) 05:20:37 dpeg - I'd like again to point at the resting-takes-very-long-bug for tiles 05:20:41 I'm programmer, I like to outsource as much as possible. Then I don't have to worry about running a server, updating blog or trac software 05:21:18 well - at least decide to have your main welcoming page somewhere 05:21:22 the only thing I disklike about sf trac is that there is no git plugin 05:21:31 it's confusing seeing so many links when googling for unnethack 05:21:53 first google hit :-) 05:22:07 brought me to trac 05:22:20 that's the central point 05:22:31 where the first link is design guidelines instead of description :) 05:22:49 oh, wait - there is one more link on top 05:22:51 the first link there IS the description 05:22:54 newbie me? :> 05:23:06 s/first/second 05:23:20 i imagined the "It features more..."-link to take me to the description 05:23:53 Nah, I'll stop poking.. just saying 05:23:54 what do you want more than "is a variant of nethack"? 05:23:56 a bit confusing 05:24:15 I want to read a short summary of the reasons why 05:24:30 I want to read a short summary of the reasons why I should start with unnethack instead of vanilla 05:24:58 "It features more randomness, more levels, more challenges and more fun than vanilla NetHack." 05:25:01 because "everybody says" (TM) "more a, more b, more c" 05:25:50 I'd say that is already the short description. The long description is the wiki on the trac page itself 05:25:53 but design guidelines show a bit 05:27:17 the blog is meant for non-technical descriptions of certain parts, but it isn't integrated into the trac page (and I wouldn't know how to do that best) 05:31:23 Napkin: is it still slow? You have to tell Enne and Johanna. 05:31:40 03by * rafb1d461cf07 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-dgn.cc: Fix wizard mode portal descriptions (&P). 05:31:42 03by * rba3fd8d3154a 10/crawl-ref/source/misc.cc: Add XXX comment: labyrinth entrances are also converted by Lua. 05:32:21 arg.. i knew that woudl happen... http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=897 05:32:29 dpeg: troves not giving gold is difficult. 05:33:37 someone fix google, please? 05:33:38 Napkin: :( 05:34:59 Napkin: in Usenet curly braces are sued as a workaround for googles brokenness 05:36:10 s/sued/used :-) 05:36:13 oh really? 05:36:13 -!- Xardas-3 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:36:14 I tried this: [DCSS 0000908]: [NEW] Mummy self-restoration ability seems to require lost stats 05:36:14 but that didn't help - no threading 05:36:14 due: oh, why? 05:36:14 cannot simply rule out any gold items? 05:36:15 how exactly do they do it in usenet, bhaak? 05:36:15 03j-p-e-g * r233146c88ed2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (directn.cc directn.h mon-stuff.cc): Fix clouds not being described when examining surroundings. 05:36:15 03j-p-e-g * rbf22b3c32dfd 10/crawl-ref/source/ (47 files in 3 dirs): Add LoginError's tiles for various runed/steel/silver ammunition. 05:36:15 03j-p-e-g * rb73ddf30d92f 10/crawl-ref/CREDITS.txt: Add LoginError to the credits. 05:36:15 later 05:36:15 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:39:08 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:39:08 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS development channel! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Ashenzari source: http://github.com/doy/crawlbot | due is semihere for the next few days. 05:43:27 rofl.. and when you google for what exactly they are basing their threading (or "conversations") on, you just find noobs praising their marvellous client.. mostly because of this broken implementation of threading and because of the 2gb 05:44:19 hooray - a million flies can't be wrong, huh? 05:45:13 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:49:37 napkin, I got a KoAs to temple and picked up chebradpit 05:49:54 napkin, how many armour should get ponderized? ;) 05:50:13 one per piery asterisk :) 05:50:35 _You drop a +0,+1 orcish falchion {zol-sword}. 05:50:41 _l - an uncursed glowing quarterstaff of chaos (weapon) 05:50:48 !apt Ko SK_STAVES 05:50:48 Ko (SK_STAVES)=110 05:51:16 no more than 3 in the beginning, because you'll need a lot of bend time (costs piety) and have not much bonus from the 4th ponderous piece of armour 05:51:26 *per piety asterisk 05:51:41 at one asterisk now 05:51:49 make a second piece? 05:51:50 only one then 05:52:03 I started by making one instantly :) 05:52:08 no, that will only slow you down and not give any bonus until you have the second asterisk 05:52:39 I meant that I made one instantly when I joined him 05:52:53 ok 05:53:01 that wasn't necessary 05:53:06 I think 05:53:30 took the piece off 05:53:34 too much stuff here, need to survive first 05:54:23 gl! 05:55:21 more ponderous armour also means faster piety gain I think 05:56:39 hmm, ok, too bad it doesn't mention anything in the ^-menu 05:56:44 cause I'm confused about how this work 05:57:07 me too, cbus - very much so 05:59:43 made piece #2 ponderous 05:59:52 I got another +0 cloak I can switch too if needed 05:59:59 always keep spare pieces :) 06:00:09 hehe, did the same :) 06:00:31 robe of MR 06:00:34 might aswell ponderize 06:00:41 does that work? 06:00:45 yeah 06:00:47 its just an ego 06:00:50 cool :) 06:01:00 i wasn't sure whether it works on ego or not 06:03:55 http://marc.info/?l=ant-dev&m=117760338012108&w=2 (04/2007) <- a different dev group, a different bug tracker - the same google problem 06:05:58 is there any use of leather armour anymore? 06:06:17 not really 06:09:33 _You finish putting on the +5 cloak "Gealemp" {+Blink +Rage rC++}. 06:10:21 woah, DCSS tracker spam FTW :) 06:11:18 hehe - payback time ;) 06:12:55 too bad that theres no good cloaks in DCSS almost 06:13:00 and you cant ponderize randarts 06:18:32 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:19:29 back 06:19:38 yes, being slower ==> more C piety gain 06:20:26 03j-p-e-g * r9e0ca811eba9 10/crawl-ref/source/tilereg.cc: Fix the Tiles tooltip giving away the presence of invisible monsters. 06:21:55 Here: Josephine the sea snake 06:22:02 cbus: <3 06:22:17 dpeg, should mention in the ^ menu or something, cause its not that easy to figure out without asking any of the devs here or source diving :D 06:22:48 dpeg, she can still spellcast in the snake form? 06:23:56 cbus: yes on the former, not sure on the latter 06:24:11 she can 06:24:19 thats weird 06:24:23 is it a bug? 06:26:43 cbus: it is about to be changed 06:26:44 not a bug 06:26:53 everything seems to be resisting my thingie thingie slow thingie 06:27:11 yeah.. I had the same problem, cbus 06:27:15 needs a LOT of training.. 06:27:27 I was slowing liches at 10ish invo 06:27:39 its at 1 almost 2 invo 06:27:49 yeah that's really low :P 06:27:53 but I fail the ability too often to be useful (and when it doesn't fail it gets resisted) 06:27:53 death yaks and hydras resisted like 4 or 5 times in a row with inv 5 06:28:18 S _ Josephine the sea snake (wandering) 06:28:23 @?? sea snake 06:28:23 sea snake (11S) | Speed: 12 (swim: 40%) | HD: 10 | Health: 40-90 | AC/EV: 2/15 | Damage: 2405(strong poison) | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40) | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 755. 06:28:34 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 06:33:27 You finish putting on the +0 cap of the Dungeon {Spirit, Str+3 Dex-5}. 06:33:33 ugh, Dex-5 on a dodging char :D 06:33:43 dpeg, nice change btw, dodging getting so affected by dex, its nice 06:33:51 dpeg, makes you think more about stat modifiers 06:34:41 cbus: yes, but EV now needs a stepdown :) 06:35:09 dpeg, yeah maybe, but now theres a reason not to spend any points in int and just go dex 06:35:21 dpeg, earlier you had to go int to get casting now you can skip casting instead 06:35:24 its a nice choice imo 06:35:41 -!- timecircuits has joined ##crawl-dev 06:37:37 cbus: yes, we know :) 06:37:56 I am in contact with Eino for making stats work even better. 06:44:33 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 06:44:36 agreed! very nice change! 06:44:46 Hallo Greensnarking! 06:44:46 Napkin: <3 06:44:50 :D 06:44:51 My ping to cdo is only 250ms now :D 06:44:58 omg! what happened? 06:45:09 :) 06:45:21 I guess my ISP improved their backbone :P 06:45:30 \o/ 06:45:32 Congrats! 06:46:02 Okay, gooodnight 06:46:06 I have a better ping to cdo than cao now :) 06:46:11 Night due 06:46:28 due: Aizul killed me :P 06:46:33 yaaay 06:46:36 Granted I was playing badly :P 06:46:40 But it counts! 06:46:57 He chased me down through Haste and fog :P 06:47:07 due: sleep well 06:47:27 I fucked up round 2 in my XL 9 run :/ 06:47:41 I am just not good enough. 06:49:07 One of these days I'm going to win that MuPr 06:49:14 Apparently not today though 06:49:17 :)) 06:49:24 Also MuPr of Yred in heavy armour is haaard :P 06:49:33 I'm going to cheap out and start learning spells :P 07:00:17 Ok, I saw no other choice than to add X-headers to mark an email about new issues without breaking Johanna's reading habbits and googlemail users: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=897#c2943 07:03:38 or as bhaak put it... Himmel, Arsch und Zwirn! ;) 07:04:08 greensnark: any idea where/how markers should be activated when returning from a level excursion? 07:04:09 * Napkin whispers to greensnark: that's a nice quote for your german list btw :D 07:05:27 I'm sure there's a page 'List of German obscenities' on the English wikipedia :-) 07:05:53 Heizölrückstoß shouldn't be listed on it ;) 07:05:59 bhaak: I am not sure it will feature Himmel, Arsch & Zwirn. 07:06:17 dpeg: no obscene enough? 07:06:24 perhaps 07:06:29 03j-p-e-g * r1af13672780b 10/crawl-ref/ (docs/options_guide.txt settings/init.txt source/initfile.cc): Default small_more to false. 07:06:49 it's perfect, bhaak :) Haven't heard that one in a long time - will start using it more often from now on :D 07:09:57 nice to see one's suggestions be taken to good use :D 07:10:04 hehe 07:11:57 btw, it would be nice if the distance/name sorting feature could be added to the ctrl+x screen 07:13:45 Napkin: Mantis! :P 07:13:58 nooooo! I don't wanna see it anymore today :D 07:15:05 Johanna has just crossed out "missing tiles" on http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:testing_and_polish_needed_for_0.6_release 07:15:07 oh.. and show_more = false is not working tiles, it seems. maybe because I have forced overlay? Keskitalo? 07:15:26 Did anyone of you use IOOD after the nerf? 07:15:27 *in tiles 07:15:40 !seen kilobyte 07:15:40 I last saw kilobyte at Fri Feb 19 15:06:51 2010 UTC (4d 22h 8m 49s ago) saying !log on Henzell. 07:15:50 five days without Meow :( 07:16:10 03j-p-e-g * r7042ba6798c1 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ (items.txt spells.txt): Update silence descriptions to include the shrinking radius. 07:16:14 ah, he told me -- holidays ;( 07:16:17 erm, :) 07:20:24 Napkin: show_more=false only works with clear_messages=false; not sure why 07:20:47 it's a mistake to grant your developers free days when a release is upcoming shortly 07:23:34 -!- Xardas-3 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.0.17/2010021501]] 07:24:24 bhaak: it is a mistake to grant your devteam a free decade 07:24:57 3drealms is the best softhouse aronud 07:25:13 but we're all into hardhouse! 07:27:07 spending a decade sitting on your ass cruising around in cool cars is a lot more productive than actually finishing games 07:27:18 dpeg: that's only because we can't put a gun at their heads 07:27:51 felirx: fun, perhaps. But "productive"? :P 07:27:53 ah, I understand - thanks, by :) 07:28:54 dpeg: driving over innocent people in GTA FEELS productive 07:28:54 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 07:29:11 No video games for me. 07:30:34 03by * rccd5f1f8556a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (files.cc files.h): Restore more state when returning from level excursion. 07:33:14 eww, touching initfile.cc 07:36:00 by: Sorry, was out 07:36:15 Were markers not being reactivated? 07:41:52 yes, fixed now 07:44:10 Oh, was that was causing bazaar portals to not disappear? 07:44:16 *what was 07:45:05 sorear: So it appears that I'm reimplementing SDL on top of itself. 07:45:48 sorear: Once this is done, the drawing code should be well enough modularized so that a native port can be written easily. 07:45:50 greensnark: don't think so 07:46:15 ixtli: I am impressed. 07:46:29 dpeg: it's really just a matter of reading through all the code. 07:46:49 the bug I fixed was picking up Jiyva not lowering the slime vaults when you had a different god, because excommunication did an apply_all_dungeons 07:47:14 dpeg: Basically I'm taking all the SDL functions that tiles calls and making generic wrapper functions in a class called UIWrapper 07:47:35 dpeg: Then i'm copying and pasting all the SDL specific code into them, and having tilesdl.cc call the wrapper function. 07:47:37 by: Sounds like it would also cause bazaar issues 07:47:53 For instance someone abandoning TSO would also invoke the dungeon visitor, right 07:48:00 That would totally trash a bazaar portal on the level 07:48:04 ixtli: sounds awesome. Handhelds in sight? :) 07:48:07 If markers weren't reactivated 07:48:07 yes, possibly 07:48:14 dpeg: My objective is an iPad port. 07:48:19 ah! 07:48:39 dpeg: The reason I didn't do this earlier is because I can't fathom a way to make it work on an iphone sized screen 07:48:40 :( 07:48:50 -!- jld has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:49:00 what's the ipod resolution 07:49:01 dpeg: I have an app in the simulator running, i just need to feed a game into it :D 07:49:07 Jeff showed me POWDER on the iphone 07:49:25 it works on iphone?? 07:49:30 but of course, POWDER is much more low end 07:49:31 felirx: 480x320 or 320x480 07:49:48 * dpeg also hates Apple :) 07:49:53 Napkin: Actually crawl itself builds with little to no coercion in the simulator 07:49:56 ... 07:49:58 * Napkin too * 07:50:06 dpeg: I want portable crawl. 07:50:08 The stash tracker is not tracking scrolls of curse weapon 07:50:11 dpeg: That's all I care about ;-) 07:50:17 ixtli: yes, and that's a really worthwhile goal 07:50:37 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:50:38 I am afraid I should add google the list of Microsoft and Apple these days? 07:50:39 dpeg: Are there plans to make multiplayer tiles? Or was that someone just saying that in general up there? 07:50:45 * ixtli points up 07:50:57 multiplayer??? 07:51:00 03by * r54e0ebaa00ca 10/crawl-ref/source/it_use2.cc: Don't do distortion unwield effect for temporary brand. 07:51:11 by: that is good, thanks 07:51:17 is that the reason you can't inspect it with "x" when it's out of LOS, greensnark? 07:51:23 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev 07:51:31 Ok, whoever added the option to filter junk scrolls from ^F was wrong wrong wrng :P 07:51:45 Apparently the default config is a thing of badness 07:52:06 ahh 07:52:14 Napkin: Yeah, that would also block 'x' out of LOS 07:52:19 The stash tracker should track everything 07:52:27 Apart from corpses 07:52:38 dpeg: i mean online 07:52:39 Well, including corpses, actually :P 07:52:58 HAH, if we scaled the inventory tiles, 480x320 would be about playable 07:53:08 there is no macroing way to have "tab, tab" gd "ctrl+g, enter", right? 07:53:15 Who wrote the default stash_filter options? 07:53:24 felirx: lol display isn't the problem 07:53:25 I use ctrl-f corpse semi frequently 07:53:32 inventory tiles could be on the swipable next screen 07:53:33 Yeah, it should track corpses 07:53:37 felirx: UIKit has great support for animating view changes 07:53:39 It does track corpses, anyway 07:53:45 But it filters junk scrolls 07:53:48 felirx: it's the control scheme, have you ever tried playing nethack on the iphone? 07:53:52 * ixtli kills himself 07:53:53 ;) 07:54:03 git show 9ac7d2a9 07:54:31 They're so not useless when you don't have Spellcasting 1 :P 07:55:00 is 1 good or not :P 07:55:09 Better than 0 :P 07:55:09 * ixtli goes back to copy-paste sdl 07:55:09 oh nm 07:55:16 was thinking the new apts 07:55:46 You know one cool thing about Adom? Live sacrifice! 07:55:57 I remember the first time I stepped on a chaotic altar accidentally :P 07:55:59 dpeg - is it public? powder for iphone? 07:56:20 greensnark: this marker bug could also explain unactived teleport control in zot:5 etc 07:56:37 we should just close all strange open bugs 07:56:48 Napkin: I thought so. Hope I don't say anything wrong. Just ask Jeff :) 07:57:03 by: yes! 07:57:17 Napkin: Hmm, need to test show_more in tiles ... I know nothing of the message window handling of course.. 07:57:39 greensnark: we will make Crawl altars much cooler 07:57:41 does gaining a piety * cause apply_all_dungeons? 07:57:43 Ah, by replied already to it.. 07:57:47 sacrificint items!??! 07:57:48 g 07:57:55 Keskitalo: i setup tiles on my 1024x600 display, forced overlay @ min_msg_height 7 with clear_messages 07:57:55 by: it shouldn't 07:58:05 syllogism: that's not cool 07:58:08 it's very nice :) 07:58:19 by: Agreed 07:58:31 because eronarn's double bailey game had him gain a second ely level shortly before 07:58:34 apply_all_dungeons is also far too expensive to use on piety breakpoints 07:58:42 yes 07:58:56 it's far too expensive always 07:58:59 Okay, we have rewritten do_layout ... the question is if to just commit it, or submit it as a patch :] 07:59:43 humans are such Zeros now :P 07:59:58 syllogism: as it should be 08:00:22 Arf, I guess we can revert if it breaks anything. 08:00:29 I find the new apts confusing but doesn't matter much 08:00:33 // When you gain a piety level, you get another chance to 08:00:33 // make hostile holy beings good neutral. 08:00:33 if (is_good_god(you.religion)) 08:00:33 holy_beings_attitude_change(); 08:00:44 Bleh, slooow 08:01:25 03Keskitalo * rfdd1f71e756e 10/crawl-ref/source/tilesdl.cc: Rewrite of TilesFramework::do_layout(). 08:01:26 03Keskitalo * rca26007aa445 10/crawl-ref/docs/options_guide.txt: Clarify how tiles_map_pixels now works. 08:01:28 03Keskitalo * raf0715d6af0e 10/crawl-ref/ (settings/tiles_options.txt source/tilesdl.cc): Reduce default tile_map_pixels by one pixel. 08:01:40 Keskitalo rocking the tiles, I see :) 08:01:55 dpeg: We're losing too many of the devteam to tiles :P 08:02:00 We need a tiles detox program 08:02:14 greensnark: it's pandemic 08:02:35 Will I be left standing alone in a sea of tiles, weaving the ragged ASCII flag? 08:02:40 my girlfriend is not playing it all day 08:02:45 behind me. as a result of me deving 08:03:00 hehe 08:03:03 It's communicable through the air. 08:03:09 BEWARE 08:03:15 Haha, failure. 08:03:20 Committed testing options. 08:03:29 &r crashed the game 08:03:35 What is &r :P 08:03:38 probably due to the new apts? 08:03:40 change race :P 08:03:52 Oh that :P 08:04:35 03Keskitalo * r19d9e5e17a04 10/crawl-ref/settings/tiles_options.txt: Fix accidentally committed testing settings. 08:04:37 fork it! dungeon crawl stone soup tiles vs. dungeon crawl stone soup the way $diety meant it to be! 08:05:04 dpeg: We'll get you the changeable tilesets with letters as one option; then you'll succumb too! 08:05:17 Keskitalo: I always asked for that. 08:05:20 hmm as a naga, a manual of stealth + 20k xp increased my stealth from 0 to 21 :P 08:05:39 syllogism: Too little? :P 08:06:06 only 25 after two reads :( 08:06:50 wizard_change_species doesn't like 0 apts :P 08:16:21 the new aptitudes shouldn't really be escaping from skills2.cc... 08:19:20 by: I think it may be the filler values in the SK_ enum 08:19:28 Which are probably zero or negative 08:19:42 or maybe the skill array isn't being initialized properly 08:19:58 I changed the skill array to not set meaningful values for things that are not real skills 08:20:59 Ah, I see it's now 999 08:21:31 That's probably driving apt_to_cost to return 0 08:21:39 ok, yes 08:21:53 Sentinel should probably be negative now 08:21:56 6e-74 08:22:09 When you can play tiles online, do you think that will cut the amount of people who play it in term by a lot? 08:22:25 Or is the ability to screen 10 games at once still very important ;) 08:22:33 -20 will give 3200 which sounds fine 08:25:18 syllogism: do you think the naga stealth thing is a bug? 08:25:32 03by * r8934b45567d3 10/crawl-ref/source/skills2.cc: Adapt sentinel aptitudes. 08:25:41 by: it's not 08:26:15 was like that in 0.5 as well and it doesn't really work like that in practice 08:26:40 unless you find an early manual and draw Experience 08:30:11 I do find the new apts easier to browse and compare! :) 08:30:42 ixtli: I'm expecting new people playing online, rather than console players going over to tiles. 08:30:47 ixtli: I think it will mostly draw many new people to the server, not so much make current players move to tiles. 08:30:52 Keskitalo: :) 08:30:59 :D 08:31:13 Simultaneous 7 minute lag. =) 08:31:20 i used to play nh in console, but i really enjoy tiles versions more 08:31:24 I love pixel art 08:31:26 always have. 08:31:29 it's not evident how they affect xp investments in practice but it's not that important 08:31:34 So, the aesthetic appeals to me. 08:35:09 Yeah, pixelsss <3 And Crawl has a very playable graphical/mouse interface. 08:35:33 (well - the mouse part needs a quite a bit of work :)) 08:36:44 * bhaak is rather spoiled. Simple tiles graphics just doesn't cut it for him 08:37:26 greensnark: in your recent Yred games, did you encounter issue #567? (premature gift messages) 08:37:26 ASCII (of course DEC or IBM :) or super-soft-scrolling 2d/3d graphics. Nothing in between 08:37:48 -!- bhaak was kicked from ##crawl-dev by dpeg [Störenfried!] 08:38:05 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 08:38:12 hahahah 08:38:23 * ixtli bows to dpeg 08:38:50 hey, that was serious! 08:38:54 last time I tried DCSS in tiles mode, I actually got a head-ache. It felt like a shaky cam. 08:39:12 bhaak: Are we complaining that much about your game? Na also. 08:39:22 Zaba: care to comment on #668? due seemed to think you might 08:41:48 dpeg: I didn't say that *hacks tiles mode was better or something like that. Just that I have a problem with simples tiles as such. I wouldn't play a tiles RL online. OTOH a ASCII-like tiles graphics are great :) 08:42:30 so that wasn't my opinion as a competing rl developer, but as a rl-player 08:43:08 bhaak: hey, I wouldn't play tiles either. I just don't see enough. But it sounded as if you wanted to snicker at our hardworking tiles crew 08:43:20 by, I'll look at it 08:44:08 dpeg: not at all! 08:47:45 by, ok, I did. 08:48:22 Zaba: thanks! 08:48:40 it's just that I am one of those who would rather fight realtime-raytraced ASCII monsters. The graphics in almost all RL are cute but they just don't work for me. To have them good enough to work for me, nowadays they had to be of WoW-quality and that you just can't with a non-commercial team that can't work fulltime on it 08:49:23 spoiled kids 08:49:28 I played on a Commodore +4. 08:49:39 yeah, I had an Amiga, that's the reason 08:49:53 misleading guidelines for portal vault description (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=919) by rob 08:50:13 hehe :) 08:50:39 by: Thanks for filing that. 08:50:42 i'll give the DCSS tiles a try again when there's a build with the animated tiles (or I can get the local build to run :) 08:50:52 bhaak: would have been a better world if Motorala had won with their processors 08:51:17 Keskitalo: can you repair that? (As in: are you able to?) 08:51:21 hmm. 08:51:39 also, later 08:51:41 dpeg: but they even screwed up twice! otherwise Apple didn't have to leave PowerPC for intel 08:52:55 yes :( 08:53:21 their 068 processors had a much better assembler code than Intel's x86 08:53:45 conditional jumps only +-128 bytes, grrr 08:53:46 almost any architecture is better than x86. Being a mess is something that comes with being mainstream. 08:53:54 luckily you don't have to do asm anymore. But you can do java bytecode. That's almost like SPARC asm :) 08:53:55 and being old, of course 08:54:03 and being the first 08:54:39 03by * rb945aa19e279 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/ossuary.des: Make ossuary portals brown. 08:55:05 dpeg: Yeah, I can do that. 09:01:08 03j-p-e-g * r2c3121f26823 10/crawl-ref/source/ (food.cc food.h mon-stuff.cc): Implement #913: Mark bad type disintegrated monsters' chunks "dropped". 09:05:36 -!- DrPraetorious has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:06:14 03henry * r53b13b267388 10/crawl-ref/source/dgn-overview.cc: Unseen altars are not displayed in morgue 09:15:21 Oh, hah, dpeg beat me to rounding the new log aptitudes to 10 before I had a chance to! 09:18:54 by: Re 567, yes, I see it all the time 09:19:07 i.e. Yred's servants show up one turn after the message announcing them 09:19:53 Possibly they're just not being displayed when they're created 09:24:30 03by * r741c2fc983f3 10/crawl-ref/source/ (chardump.cc dgn-overview.cc dgn-overview.h): Pass a flag instead of checking global state in dgn-overview. 09:30:03 Warning when mob is holding wand (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=920) by drakale 09:40:01 I thought the monster using the wand was the warning :P 09:40:05 Player lichform dynamic weapon tile (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=921) by Porkchop 09:41:04 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:41:44 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:42:11 I'll support that change only if the player has to wield the wand before zapping :P 09:42:19 it's not possible to include another file in the macros file.. is it? 09:43:28 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 09:44:47 "henry"? someone new i need to rank in mantis? 09:45:20 Napkin: that was a patch submitted on the tracker 09:45:48 ah, roger :) 09:46:22 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:47:21 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:49:11 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:51:10 -!- scarf has joined ##crawl-dev 09:56:29 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:04 Yeah, showing that a monster has a wand/potion/scroll would be like showing that the kobold carries exploding darts.. (not that I'm not saying I'd be against this ;)) 09:59:34 Neither that I'd be for it! 09:59:39 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:00:32 Keskitalo? 10:00:47 did you see any weird behaviour when looking at the (i)nventory? 10:02:06 No, but I can't say we looked at the inventory (or z* etc) a lot! 10:05:36 it's this 2 columns display 10:06:20 and for some reason or another, i'm having 1.5 column and the rest of items on the next "page" (pressed space) 10:08:25 Inventory is something very strange...everytime I open it...it's crowded ;-) 10:08:28 I'll check.. 10:09:57 On my screen, it could fit about two more items to the space it has before --more-- 10:10:31 oh, ic 10:10:51 well, i'm playing with this almost tiny laptop at the moment 10:10:56 600 in height 10:11:22 but also, playing the last build from... 2 days ago? 10:11:59 didn't fully understand your do_layout() change :-$ maybe I should wait with reporting until that's "in" for testing? 10:12:00 It seems to vary a bit.. but yeah, yesterdays build has the same behaviour. :) 10:12:24 So it's independent. We didn't really touch inventory etc screens. 10:12:33 ah, ok 10:13:02 and if I may load one more thing off to you ;) 10:13:09 It also can print the headline of the next section of the inventory as the last thing on the column, and then start listing the actual items on the next column. 10:13:17 Yeah, shoot. :) 10:14:11 the overlay is very cool with clear_messages (can't do without, otherwise too much of the view_port would be.. uhm... "overlain") - but i'm having trouble seeing the dark grey messages 10:14:37 Yeah, that's true, they're hard to see.. 10:14:42 could dark grey font maybe be outlined/shadows differently (white)? 10:14:53 *shadowed 10:15:12 I think the overlay backkground might have been chosen badly in the context of font contrast 10:15:40 you think there is an alternative color for the overlay background, felirx? 10:15:43 I imagine the channel where the "unimportant" messages (misses etc) are could be recoloured when overlay is true. 10:16:29 hmm.. could be an option - but one color would be lost 10:16:52 Tweaking the overlay colour might well be the least intrusive change.. 10:17:09 Hey cute, a centaur I can't see is shooting at me :P 10:17:15 white/lightgrey outline or shadow (instead of always back like now) would not be an option? 10:17:22 And hitting me quite accurately, may I add :P 10:17:25 Hmm, actually, the channel colouring should be doable in init.txt 10:17:43 oh, true 10:17:47 hide, greensnark! 10:18:20 it is probably already done in one of the extra configs.. isn't it? 10:18:55 Not sure - I've never messed with them :) 10:19:01 greensnark - or start using bigger terminal than 80x24 for playing! ;-P 10:19:13 Napkin: How would that help? :P 10:19:14 let me check 10:19:31 all your terminal's vault I bet ;)) 10:19:37 *fault! 10:20:11 # Messages are colour coded in standard_colours.txt as follows: 10:20:59 $boring and $inedible are darkgrey 10:21:31 It's either a flying invisible monster shooting from the NW corner over deep water, or a centaur just outside LOS :P 10:21:53 submerged? :D 10:22:15 Could be :P 10:23:14 maybe shooting through a shaft right above you ;) 10:23:39 Oh blah, I edited the wrong issue :P 10:25:16 Centaur shoots at PC from outside LOS (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=922) by greensnark 10:25:16 why is that centaur excluded :P 10:25:25 is it a different one 10:25:46 I excluded a centaur when approaching the vault from the north end 10:25:52 back 10:26:04 and what did I get? 38 emails 10:27:05 38 is not a Crawly number, you should wait until you get one more 10:27:44 could it see your zombie 10:27:57 No, my zombie was south of me, even further out of its LOS 10:28:09 I had to move two squares left of where I was in the screenshot to bring the centaur into view 10:28:17 Actually two squares left and one up 10:28:59 I think it's a case of the monster's LOS being cached 10:29:05 In some unfortunate way :) 10:29:29 Now that I've deleted them all, I got three more. 10:29:35 This feels like hydra fighting. 10:29:38 I am Hercules!!! 10:29:41 Hmm, apparently Ely protection from harm costs piety when you have over 120 piety, but not below, and the chances are the same above and below. 10:29:45 Napkin: Copy save feature is <3 <3 <3 10:30:18 :)) 10:30:19 I'm tempted to open the save and uncurse this wretched -4 cloak though :P 10:30:21 Keskitalo: evil bug 10:30:27 Napkin: yes, that's a great improvement 10:30:28 lol 10:30:31 Oh, I was carrying a scroll of RC :P 10:30:42 Napkin: ^ see about scumming 10:30:43 dpeg: Found it from the DF forums Crawl thread, which seems to have moderately exploded since last checking. 10:30:44 glad you guys like it :) 10:31:00 dpeg: Can you remember the intended design from the top of your head? 10:31:01 hehe, dpeg 10:31:07 Keskitalo: so many information, cannot keep up with it 10:31:14 dpeg: Yeah, no worries. :) 10:31:16 Keskitalo: for Ely protection? 10:31:20 Yeah. 10:31:21 we have the logs, david ;> 10:31:29 we have the logs 10:31:32 WE HAVE THE LOGS 10:31:39 TEH LOGSE 10:31:54 recoloring $boring and $inedible works, Keskitalo :) but white is not the default :D 10:32:00 should I use... grey? 10:32:06 Keskitalo: does 120 piety provide full protection? 10:32:12 rofl@LOGSE 10:32:58 dpeg: No - I just got killed in wizmode with piety 200 and praying 10:33:28 41 piety for one protection.. 10:33:34 (I like the new &^) 10:33:54 This one cost 23.. 10:34:15 21 cost, down to 125.. 10:34:17 when was that nerfed 10:34:30 Hit got through and killed. 10:34:34 Keskitalo: the intention was that PfHarm is safe, at least at full piety. 10:34:38 I remember being protected like 10+ times in a row 10:34:39 PfH costing piety is okay. 10:34:55 syllogism: no idea, would be interesting to know when/why it was changed 10:35:42 At piety 100, it no longer costs piety, and I got saved 6 times out of 7. 10:35:48 heh 10:35:53 Keskitalo: that's insanely broken 10:35:56 Can't say I feel the difference, except for the piety dropping :) 10:36:16 Keskitalo: it might be okay that piety costs are so that you'll converge towards 100 10:36:32 but it's not okay that really high piety does not provide reliable protection 10:36:56 hitting 200 piety is really difficult too 10:37:05 works almost, Keskitalo: the "Items here: ((( %"-line still has darkgre 10:37:43 syllogism: yes, the safety level should be reached a bit earlier, 180 perhaps 10:38:02 Keskitalo: I can provide a formula -- do you want one? 10:38:16 !source god_protects_from_harm 10:38:24 Lines pasted to http://paste.scsys.co.uk/39776 10:38:27 "Implement reliable protection from harm for Elyvilon (available under prayer at high enough piety, but with a significant piety cost)." 10:38:33 Date: 1 year, 2 months ago 10:40:15 Let me ask again: did anyone here use IOOD with a recent build (post nerf)? 10:41:11 no but it may have nerfed monster IOOD a bit too much point blank, though I guess the fact it (probably?) always hits might still make up for the poor damage 10:41:38 syllogism: protection against IOOD by running into it :) 10:41:39 liches do 8d8, which is of course laughable if the target isn't a splatty ev type 10:42:40 dpeg: My brain is feeling like mush.. that function looks simple, but I need to check out how it's used.. 10:43:30 chance for protection = piety / 180 10:43:33 piety cost = max(piety-100,0) / 3 10:43:52 oops, first formula is wrong 10:43:57 chance for protection = max(piety-20,0) / 160 10:45:35 Napkin: I agree with Johanna that the Re's are bad. 10:46:03 so always 50% chance of protection, for no piety cost? 10:46:13 I agreed when implementing it, dpeg ;) 10:47:42 50% isn't that great, I'll take Death's door thanks :P 10:47:43 But changing anything in the subject of an email seems to be a no-go for gmail's oh-so-awesome-but-wtf-broken-conversations-feature... 10:48:19 doy: I don't see that. Until piety 20 there's a 0 chance in my book. 10:48:45 Napkin: yes, but why do we have to adhere to google? Fuck google. Sane men use alpine. 10:48:57 rofl 10:49:03 piety cost is 0 at piety 100, and chance to protect at 100 piety is 50% 10:49:10 doy: yes 10:49:19 that's intended 10:49:21 I like due and enne - even though they are mislead ;) 10:49:24 and you lose 100-100/3 :P 10:49:36 that's what he said yes 10:49:57 doy: 50% is weak, and it comes with the conduct 10:50:12 ah, true 10:50:23 yes 10:50:33 and it comes with ely too :P 10:50:37 doy: but 50% is good enough to use it while waiting for teleporation to kick in :) 10:50:42 syllogism: hey! :) 10:51:00 syllogism: Do you think E is such a bad god? 10:51:04 no 10:51:07 okay 10:52:36 make it 72%! 10:57:06 First piety breakpoint would be at 30.. 10:58:44 what is trained when hitting a monster with a bone lantern? 10:58:46 Keskitalo: but 180 is another one? 10:59:01 Napkin: is that a Zen question? 10:59:03 !tell by I don't see the Yred minion bug in latest version on CDO; either it's sporadic, or it's fixed 10:59:03 greensnark: OK, I'll let by know. 10:59:28 okok, I withdraw :-P 10:59:35 but what's a Zen question? :-O 10:59:55 dpeg: Looks like the last one is 120. We can use any number, but of course it's much neater to use the same points for all gods.. 11:00:13 Keskitalo: 120=****** ? 11:00:22 Ehrm.. what's the difference of piety_rank and piety_breakpoint anyway? :) 11:00:47 Napkin: What is the sound of one hand clapping? 11:01:01 i'd like to bump the "ctrl+key combinations can't be macroed anymore" *me whistles innocently* 11:01:03 dpeg: Ulgh, looks like [******] is 161. 11:01:12 This is all new to me. :) 11:01:35 let's make a bone lantern amulet? 11:01:55 No, I guess I saw some of this with the Vehumet/Kiku patches. 11:02:19 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:19 Should fix bug for 0.6, do new formula for 0.7. 11:03:37 ok 11:03:44 I don't see any effect in the code from getting the reliable protetcion (you.piety > 130) except the piety hit. :) 11:04:02 Keskitalo: which seems like intentional 11:05:04 But it's not actually realiable, it still has the 30 in 200 chance to fail if I read correctly. :) 11:05:27 No warning prompt when targeting yourself with evaporate (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=923) by syllogism 11:05:54 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:06:08 there's a chance no prompt is intentional 11:06:30 it shouldn't prompt if you're immune to whatever cloud you'd create 11:06:35 I've self-targeted with poison clouds before 11:06:45 i do it all the time even when not immune 11:06:50 confusion wears off very quick 11:07:26 I suppose the if (!actual || praying || anytime) is simply missing " || reliable" 11:07:52 Nnnope, that would make it always save life, regardless of praying. 11:08:58 one war two ear ewe` 11:09:10 gah, that's my root pasword, typed it in the wrong window 11:09:12 time to change 11:09:31 /that/ was impressive 11:09:50 Next guess is.. bool praying = (you.duration[DUR_PRAYER] && random2(piety_scale(you.piety)) >= min_piety); ..that needs to stop getting false once piety is over 130? 11:14:42 That's what the ^ screen seems to be implying. 11:16:17 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:35 Okay - that's guaranteed protetction from Ely when piety > 130, but it costs 21-41 piety to do so. 11:17:04 dpeg: Does that sound sensible? 11:17:04 03dpeg * ra26a39b26eb6 10/crawl-ref/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Update quickstart.txt and friends. 11:17:15 dpeg: Yay for the update! 11:17:27 Woo 11:17:29 :) 11:17:59 Keskitalo: sounds sensible, but I am not sure. 11:18:11 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:18:14 Those programmers have the ability to mutilate every beautiful formula :) 11:18:21 scarf: we won't tell anybody! 11:18:39 I didn't change any formula, I'm just fixing what's there. (<-- by changing the formula ;)) 11:19:01 Hrmh. Now I broke it. 11:19:13 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:19:22 Keskitalo: I know, I am just saying that the bool praying monstrosity makes every formula weep in the corner. 11:21:10 This is making me weep in the corner. I can either get it to say that Ely always protects during prayer, but not get Ely to do so; or the other way around. :D 11:22:37 * dpeg gives Keskitalo a big stick to perform severe, stern beating of Elyvilon. 11:23:08 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:46 I think I just put in a terrible haxxxx. Of course, I'm only used to doing neat little programming excercises, not actual working code. 11:24:01 the README still says that The official webpage is at http://crawl-ref.sourceforge.net/ 11:24:05 do we want that? 11:24:07 no 11:24:21 Should it be http://crawl.develz.org ? 11:24:34 fine with me 11:24:36 what do you think? 11:24:39 greensnark? 11:25:02 Hm? 11:25:14 official homepage = crawl.develz.org? 11:25:20 Oh homepage, yeah, why not 11:25:26 But we'll have to add more info on a landing page 11:25:36 The existing Wordpress page might not be right 11:25:58 Napkin? 11:26:13 like the SF landing page? 11:26:30 I don't like the look of the SF landing page, but yeah, background info on the game, download links 11:26:46 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:27:28 !tell Napkin We would like to make CDO the official homepage. Do you agree? If so, we should have the landing page to be somewhat similar to what you get on SF: background, "game is fun" blurb etc. And download link! What do you think? 11:27:28 dpeg: OK, I'll let Napkin know. 11:27:45 I think that fixed it. 11:27:59 -!- eith_ is now known as eith 11:29:29 what about a nicer domain name for the main website? 11:29:29 Napkin: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:30:08 dungeoncrawl.org would be nice :P 11:30:09 apart from that - we can choose a "page" to show as default on visit and add the blog as link. 11:30:26 All we need to do is kick Don Brodale and pry it from his cold dead hands! 11:30:30 Should be straightforward 11:30:38 Do we have any developers on the same landmass as Don Brodale? :p 11:31:04 dungeoncrawl.org would indeed be nice. I mention crawl to quite a lot of people, and most of them land there when searching for what I said... 11:31:13 is it not Linley's domain? 11:31:20 I don't think it's Linley's 11:31:26 Don Brodale runs the site as far as I know 11:31:27 bits like 'stone soup' tend to get forgotten quickly. Let alone -ref. 11:31:59 there's a phone-number in whois 11:32:05 someone should just try to call him 11:32:17 or try to reach Linley 11:32:20 haha http://dungeoncrawl.org/?c.w 11:32:29 Don't abandon a site that fails or proves a challenge to manage. Stale content pollutes the Web space. Clearly state how to locate up-to-date information elsewhere. Invite volunteers to salvage stalled work. Transition documents of historical interest to accepting projects. Pull content that no longer receives attention or support. 11:32:34 11:32:36 11:32:47 Registrant ID:DB64455 11:32:48 Registrant Name:D. Brodale 11:32:54 Apparently D Brodale is in NJ :P 11:33:07 Anybody near NJ for a quick visit with dental forceps? :P 11:33:13 Don knows of Stone Soup, he's been active on the wikipedia page. 11:33:22 oh 11:33:24 Last Updated On:08-Jan-2009 18:04:57 UTC 11:33:29 Yeah, but apparently he doesn't think enough of it to link to it :P 11:33:46 greensnark: he might think his old page is long forgotten 11:34:25 It used to be really annoying the early days :P 11:34:32 Players would report b26 bugs on SF 11:34:33 greensnark: can you send him an email? 11:34:54 03Keskitalo * r724d761ddba6 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Fix Elyvilon's guaranteed protection from harm not being guaranteed. 11:34:54 dpeg: You should :) 11:35:03 greensnark: what's the address? 11:35:05 I don't know him anyway :) 11:35:20 I don't have his email address, but sorear might know 11:35:34 Uniques with "personalized" equipment should avoid switching items (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=924) by OG17 11:35:41 "Either join us and leave in peace, or pursue your present course and face obliteration." 11:35:53 Would that do? 11:36:06 sorear: you around? 11:36:13 "Give us the domain." 11:36:27 :P 11:36:43 "Arrr me hearty, give us the domain or walk the plank!" 11:36:48 "Domain of death. I was confused: Domain OR Death." 11:37:16 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:37:39 "You can do it the easy way or the hard way: Either you give it to us, or we take it from you." 11:38:19 I could brainwash him to play nethack, then he'll give it up the domain more easily 11:39:13 one should unleash sigmund upon him 11:39:20 Don't we know a Steven Noonan? 11:39:33 we do 11:39:34 Napkin: Who, neunon? Never heard of them! 11:40:00 Distortion is ridiculous :P 11:40:03 there's a Steven Noonan on the Friends list of this http://www.facebook.com/people/Linley-Henzell/561452405 11:40:18 coincidence? 11:40:30 unlikely :P 11:40:35 Napkin: Probably neunon 11:40:46 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:40:56 :) 11:41:01 Old apt equivs compared to the new ones, if anyone cares: http://pastebin.com/6EuVbSTH 11:41:19 i do 11:41:38 !apt dg 11:41:39 DG: Air=110, Armour=110, Axes=110, Bows=110, Conj=110, Xbows=110, Darts=110, Div=110, Dodge=110, Earth=110, Ench=110, Evo=82, Exp=160*, Fighting=110, Fire=110, Ice=110, Inv=82, Long=110, Maces=110, Nec=110, Poison=110, Polearms=110, Shields=110, Short=110, Slings=110, Splcast=143, Stab=110, Staves=110, Stealth=110, Summ=110, Throw=110, Tloc=110, Tmut=110, Traps=110, Unarmed=110 11:41:54 (Most notably, this means e.g. Demigod is 119 equiv. instead of 110, which is moderately significant - though they do have plans to be made more interesting already which would probably buff 'em a bit) 11:42:29 Twinge_: yes, I opted for harder on purpose 11:43:18 as Keskitalo noted, a D.Brondale is somewhat active on wikipedia on rl themes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/D.brodale 11:45:34 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:51 which is Don Brondale from dungeoncrawl.org as can be seen in this version history: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Linley%27s_Dungeon_Crawl_Logo.png&action=history 11:47:26 I can invite him to the team. We've got girls, guns and liquor! 11:47:34 rofl 11:47:42 We have liquor? 11:47:45 more than one girl? 11:47:45 yes 11:47:50 tons of them 11:47:52 unfortunately you are a mummy :P 11:48:05 syllogism: I'll die soon :P 11:48:08 mummies do not count as girls 11:49:03 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:49:41 what about Heizölrückstoß's? 11:50:01 Heizölrückstöße 11:50:24 That's what is left after a hard day of partying at Crawl HQ. 11:50:51 you can't party all day, there are too many commits 11:51:35 not by me! 11:52:04 little house elves write the code 11:52:08 they just commit in the dev teams name 11:52:11 felirx: and it shows :) 11:52:24 okay, but it seems that we cannot use dungeoncrawl.org in the README for 0.6 11:52:28 what else to take? 11:52:36 crawl-ref.org? 11:52:56 what's up with the "ref"? 11:53:19 crawl-ss.org or something.. 11:53:57 crawl-ref was a separate project that merged with stone soup before its first release 11:54:03 but they set up the sourceforge page 11:54:04 (: 11:54:34 hm 11:54:36 you know, sf lets one rename its project :) 11:54:51 i mean.. yes, it's long... 11:54:59 shrug, talk to greensnark, he was actually around back then 11:54:59 (: 11:55:12 but wouldn't dungeoncrawl-stonesoup.org ok too? 11:55:22 *be ok 11:56:02 I should know, unnethack was first registered as unethack-12312 :-D1 11:56:46 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:57:04 no ref please 11:57:17 my question was more whether I should leave the SF page or take the CDO one instead 11:57:51 you choose 11:58:09 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:10 I'd be honored 11:58:11 will leave the SF page 11:58:19 for the starting page 11:58:37 wouldn't be that hard to make a main page for develz 11:58:41 Napkin: if you would copy the SF starging page (only text and download links), I'd take CDO instead :) 11:59:08 sure, not problem either 11:59:10 would be sweet to leave sf behind entirely by 0.7 11:59:11 (: 11:59:12 *no 11:59:24 wordpress is in a separate directory 11:59:44 i'd just remove the / -> /wordpress/ forwarding 11:59:46 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:00:34 Napkin: oh, I love it that the wordpress is on the first page... it should just not be right on top perhaps? 12:00:52 or better, only show the beginning of the most recent article 12:00:55 on the top page 12:01:13 hehe 12:01:25 well, dpeg, I have root access - we can do whatever we want :) 12:01:30 please :) 12:02:42 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:29 well, have the main page just include the titles of the most recent wordpress posts, with links and such 12:03:47 and stick a couple links to /wordpress/ in various places too 12:06:07 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:09:46 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:11:30 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:01 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:10 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:24:53 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:45 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:28:29 Keskitalo: are my Ely formulas of any use? 12:28:34 or is the old one working well again= 12:31:47 -!- murphy_slaw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:34 Check it, David: http://crawl.develz.org 12:34:44 *dpeg 12:34:58 it should no longer forward you to the wordpress 12:35:11 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:35:14 -!- murphy_slaw_ is now known as murphy_slaw 12:35:45 worksforme 12:36:15 Napkin: is there a "patches welcome" flag on Mantis? 12:36:36 dpeg: The new one looks nice and simple. The old one is probably now working as once designed. :) 12:36:50 Hopefully people play lots of Ely in 0.6! ^__^ 12:37:05 ah, okay -- should we keep the new formula somhere, Keskitalo? 12:37:14 I can pull something similar out off my hat next time, too 12:37:20 should move the screenshots over too 12:38:11 considering there's no direct link from the sf screenshots page back to develz 12:38:26 animated screenshots please! 12:38:27 and those are something that people will want to just glance at and then go back 12:38:36 bhaak: make some! 12:38:43 Napkin: the line about the Mac build is dated. 12:39:11 dpeg: Added to the feedback page. :) 12:39:34 could probably stand to make a whole set of new screenshots, actually 12:39:39 the ones on that page are pretty old 12:39:49 Is it intentional that the "File a bug" link appears twice? 12:39:53 looks like 0.3-0.4 or so 12:39:57 doy: I can't get it to run locally! 12:41:20 also, probably make the sf website a redirect to develz 12:41:28 -!- bhaak is now known as frech 12:42:09 -!- frech is now known as bhaak 12:44:31 hmmm 12:44:34 dpeg: What line about mac builds? 12:44:44 I'm updating the page on crawl-ref.sourceforge.net myself :) 12:45:14 i wonder how much work it would be to make mantis/wiki/wordpress/main site all use similar layouts/color schemes 12:45:28 the line about mac builds is part of an old news post, it's fine 12:46:40 ah, ok 12:46:54 I think I can remove the pointers to 0.3.4 key changes from the README? 12:47:05 yes 12:47:55 sorear: how's that demonspawn stuff coming? 12:48:01 I like this page better than crawl-ref: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/?page_id=2 :) 12:48:02 dpeg> Napkin: the line about the Mac build is dated. - I don't understand? 12:48:04 hmmm 12:48:12 !tell sorear how's that demonspawn stuff coming? 12:48:13 doy: OK, I'll let sorear know. 12:48:21 Napkin: Probably meant the old news. :) 12:48:37 doy, Johanna uploaded a whole bunch of screenshots to the wordpress 12:48:50 Napkin: Ooh, excellent! 12:48:52 ah, the old news I dumped from sourceforge? ;) 12:48:59 Napkin: Hehe, yeah! 12:49:10 Wait, did she do more than the tides article ones? (which are good) 12:49:13 david is sooooo slwo sometimes :> 12:49:27 yes - she uploaded a lot more 12:49:56 Night all, have fun with the site :) 12:49:59 -!- greensnark has quit [Quit: Nights] 12:50:09 Woot! All SDL functions out of tilesdl 12:50:26 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:36 btw, I agree with doy that the latest blog entries should be listed on the main-page 12:51:59 blogs are very often ignored 12:52:25 sup Napkin 12:52:37 Hey Vandal :) 12:52:53 someone beat your idle record on CDO! :-P 12:53:04 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/?page_id=2 12:53:21 Napkin: what did I not do? 12:53:51 ixtli: Nice! 12:53:58 hiyo dpeg, any less swamped now? 12:53:59 ixtli: Did you check the do_layout rewrite yet? :) 12:54:06 :O 12:54:09 When did this happen? 12:54:22 dpeg: your forgot to reload the website, 5 seconds after you mentioned that dead link (with Eino in range) ;) 12:54:27 Keskitalo: No problem! 12:54:43 Keskitalo: do_layout() did not call SDL or OpenGL functions when I last pull'd 12:55:01 nice, Eino :) we could make that the start page and remove the old page :> 12:55:07 Napkin: Let's! 12:55:14 That is, I removed sdl/ogl includes from tilesdl and it didn't generate errors in that function. 12:55:16 errrmm.. I mean *archive* the old page, of course! 12:55:24 ixtli: Excellent! :) 12:55:27 ixtli: it doesn't 12:55:32 Keskitalo: I have to say. 12:55:41 okay, the README now exclusively mentions crawl.develz.org, okay? 12:55:45 ok, let me see how to do that again... 12:55:53 Despite what people are saying, the code was rather modular. 12:56:01 It doesn't rely on the existance of SDL types. 12:56:11 It even has its own mouse event classes. 12:56:23 Basically, i've seen worse ;-) 12:57:06 ixtli: Tiles part should be pretty good, it's new, not very entangled with the old, and already once rewritten from scratch by Enne. :) 12:57:18 :D 12:57:20 She's good. 12:57:22 also 12:57:24 Good to hear! :) 12:57:39 in tilesdl.h there is an enum key_mod at the top 12:57:53 it doesn't include MOD_NONE = 0x0 12:57:55 at the top 12:57:56 It should 12:57:57 Napkin: Is it possible to edit upper right corner links (Home, About, Howto, ...) from wordpress admin? 12:58:02 Someone might as well commit that. 12:58:17 partly 12:58:18 why? 12:58:24 what would you like to change? 12:59:15 Napkin: We'll need "Download", and I was thinking if "Home" should be "Blog" and "About" possibly "Home". What do you think? 12:59:16 03dpeg * ra328813ed594 10/crawl-ref/ (README.pdf README.txt source/util/docs/README.tex): Update README.txt and friends. 12:59:57 again, why appears the link File a bug report/Propose a new feature twice? 13:00:10 ixtli: I can do that, what should I put in the commit message? :D <-- clueless 13:01:12 Keskitalo: "fixed key_mod enumeration" ? it's pretty much just for readability's sake 13:01:16 I was about to remove the "Home" Link - then have "About" as top-link with the landing page and then "Blog" with the blog posts. Do you mean that, Keskitalo? 13:01:17 Ok! 13:01:29 Napkin: Yes, I was thinking the same. :) 13:01:48 the problem is, that the "Page" link and header are the same 13:02:02 well.. or rather a not-so-nice detail 13:02:10 anyways, 1s, let's do that first 13:02:15 Yay! No build errors with the removal of SDL from that file 13:02:27 ixtli: I'll compile for sanity's sake (which'll take a while), and then commit. Thanks! What is your name, so we can add you to the credits? 13:02:40 shoot 13:02:43 Chris Galardi, if you want. 13:02:57 the auto-template isn't showing up when I went to create a new wiki page about Dwarves 13:03:07 and are you ok to release this change under GPL one day, ixtli? 13:03:15 dpeg: How do I update credits again? :) 13:03:17 of course :D 13:03:31 someone mark his name in the list ;) 13:03:33 Napkin: Oh, nice catch! :) 13:03:35 ixtli :) 13:03:43 Napkin: What license is it under now? 13:03:45 Do we have the list already somewhere? 13:03:55 * Napkin ducks away to the wordpress * 13:03:55 I assumed GPL. 13:03:57 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 13:03:59 ixtli: Crawl's very own borked one. Derived from the Nethack licence. 13:04:03 I see. 13:04:11 Keskitalo: 1920x1080 res, otherwise default settings = 21 lines of message region. 78 total inventory/groun tiles :D 13:04:15 If you guys need license help I know the guy who does IP law at google. 13:04:23 He donates his time to OSS projects. 13:04:24 felirx: Nice! 13:04:24 So. 13:04:26 the hookup 13:04:27 ixtli: Oh. 13:04:35 ixtli: That. Could be very. Handy. For us. 13:04:50 I have a feeling I'll jank up Option.max_view_height :) 13:05:01 Keskitalo: If you're serious about it someone who has time and an interest in sorting out licensing should PM me. 13:05:14 Or talk here, whatever. It's just that the person has to know lots about the project. 13:05:16 I'll PM him. 13:06:17 ixtli: We'll keep in mind, for sure. We've been talking a bit about (needing to) relicence and catch all the previous contributors. 13:06:53 Keskitalo: enter CREDITS.txt with an editor which does not mutilate UTF8 and then call perl source/utils/columnise-columns.pl 13:07:43 Napkin: in the blogroll "Main Project Site" still points sf. And maybe the blog title should point to the main CDO page? 13:07:56 ixtli: yes, that could help. I think that sorear and greensnark are our license hamsters? 13:07:57 thanks, bhaak 13:08:47 Keskitalo, dpeg - remove the original landing page from SF and go with the current wordpress landing page instead? 13:09:01 dpeg: When my friend gets back to me I'll let them know. 13:09:18 ixtli: thank you 13:09:29 Napkin: don't know! 13:09:40 Is the question what the SF main page should show? 13:09:50 dpeg: When I was with the iPhoneDevTeam back when the first phone came out I pestered him for LOADS of free legal advice. 13:09:51 SO. 13:09:51 no 13:09:52 :D 13:10:39 Keskitalo, dpeg: the question is, do we want this (http://crawl.develz.org/) as start page or this (http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/ (not finished yet, Eino is still working on it))? 13:10:56 (also, please reload - a different site may be cached) 13:11:39 03dpeg * r80e94bc6df9e 10/crawl-ref/docs/crawl_manual.txt: CDO rather than SF in the manual. 13:12:35 I like the wordpress one better. 13:12:48 But I am not an expert on web design :) 13:12:57 I am not even an expert on roguelike design, so what the heck. 13:13:09 the wordpress one has a few disadvantages (fixed width) 13:13:20 haha, stop kidding us, mister dpeg ;) 13:14:13 Keskitalo: I made a mantis account. 13:14:51 I have some commetns on the pages, but perhaps I should wait until matters stabilise? 13:15:12 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:15:32 ok, I just decided for the wordpress website :-P 13:16:41 Keskitalo: Why did you guys move away from SF? 13:17:01 where is the freaking FAQ? 13:17:08 sf is horrible 13:17:11 SF is slow, cumbersome 13:17:13 lol 13:17:17 ixtli: the tracker, the interface, the pain 13:17:49 The interface /has/ gone downhill quite a bit as of late. 13:17:55 It starting to look like an ISP landing page :( 13:18:57 appearance went downhill, features went uphill. Standard coder problem :) 13:19:05 :D 13:19:06 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:19:43 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:11 This is how it pretty much looks, dunno how it differs from the old code : http://www.student.oulu.fi/~jannelah/crawl/crawl19201080.png 13:20:37 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:21:18 Napkin: are the screenshots accessible? 13:24:12 erm, yes, of course, doy 13:24:45 but it would be best, if I register you to the wordpress? 13:24:49 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:25:01 ? 13:25:25 the screenshots are uploaded as media to the wordpress 13:25:36 -!- MarvinPA has quit [] 13:25:42 and since they are not used anywhere yet I would have to link you directly 13:25:48 ah, okay 13:26:23 should I register you? (I disabled register functionality, since too many registered there while they actually wanted to register to the mantis) 13:26:28 sure 13:27:00 bhaak: features didn't go uphill 13:27:16 also, contact with users degraded 13:27:42 My first complaints (civil, technical, to the point, trust me) got in very quick. For laters, I didn't even get a reply. 13:27:44 dpeg: trac, git, mercurial, wordpress, mediawiki, ... all that didn't exist as an option 1 or 2 years ago 13:28:04 bhaak: no git? 13:28:17 dpeg: no. They were the last one to add it 13:28:24 ah, on SF you mean 13:29:35 heh... 13:29:36 421 4.4.5 Server busy, try again later. (mx.google.com) 2si10403294yxe.18 13:30:27 where did I see FAQ.html? 13:30:31 does this exist? 13:31:02 ah, in the docs 13:32:40 the only difference in my sqlite is this: 13:32:42 -Subproject commit e1ac90ec8ed12afc76e97c4eba2fdeb4db92c7d1 13:32:42 +Subproject commit e1ac90ec8ed12afc76e97c4eba2fdeb4db92c7d1-dirty 13:32:53 ok, we need a few changes to the wordpress: 13:33:07 - howto needs to mention both servers equally 13:33:30 - server files (morgue, configs, ttyrecs) of CDO need to be put elsewhere 13:33:36 - downloads link is missing 13:33:49 (or rather not prominent enough) 13:34:19 03dpeg * r144e72823680 10/crawl-ref/ (docs/FAQ.html source/dat/database/FAQ.txt): Minor change to FAQ.txt and friend. 13:35:31 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:31 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:38:05 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:39:15 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:39:28 doy: did anything come out of the regen/hunger discussion? Should we do something? 13:40:52 dpeg: i never pulled that revert into 0.6 13:41:04 so the current state of 0.6 is absolute/absolute 13:41:23 which isn't great, but it's acceptable for 0.6 i think 13:41:29 we should look into it more for 0.7 though 13:41:51 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:42:16 doy: can I leave you with having an eye on that? 13:42:32 doy: just bringing up the issue at a proper opportunity. 13:42:37 sure 13:42:41 hmmm 13:42:52 actually, probably make a note of it on the 0.7 wiki page 13:43:06 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 13:43:29 yes, that's good 13:46:46 It's fun to see progress on the 0.7 page already :) 13:47:04 Although on the 0.6 one, I am not sure about the state of IOOD. 13:52:18 If an altar is missing from temple, shouldn't it be somewhere in the same level as temple? 13:52:35 no 13:52:45 it should be somewhere in between d:2 and d:9 13:53:17 !tell dpeg all I know about contacting D.brodale is that he's active on Wikipedia. Could leave a comment on his Talk: page 13:53:18 sorear: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:53:18 sorear: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 13:53:52 sorear: you can email people via Wikipedia, if both you and them have set an email address 13:54:09 it doesn't tell you their email address, but it does send them a message, and tell them yours 13:54:12 so they can reply 13:55:09 !tell ixtli AFAIK neunon and kilobyte are the license hamsters, not I 13:55:09 sorear: OK, I'll let ixtli know. 13:55:56 !tell ixtli Why use a UIManager class at all? Why not just use global functions? 13:55:56 sorear: OK, I'll let ixtli know. 13:56:36 don't really see how that's an improvement over anything 13:58:15 Heh 13:58:15 ixtli: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 13:58:46 why use global functions istead of oop? 13:59:00 sorear: Take it up with the people who write the books. 13:59:14 That tell me they'll shoot my dog if I don't follow oo paradigms. 13:59:39 i'm fine with not following oo paradigms when they're not appropriate 13:59:43 people like that are idiots and should be shot themselves... oo is not a silver bullet 13:59:52 Of course not. 13:59:56 but using global functions rather than a class just seems to lose functionality for no reason 14:00:08 sorear: there is a legitimate reason to use UIManager classes here, which is if you ever want to have multiple UIs running simultaneously 14:00:25 not even simultaneously 14:00:25 It's also far more convenient! 14:00:28 kind-of unlikely, but you can sort-of imagine a mode where one player plays and other players watch 14:00:30 just the option to switch between them 14:00:35 The class can maintain state. 14:00:42 In a way that is much cleaner than globals. 14:00:47 ixtli: get_ui_manager.draw() is more convenient than draw()? 14:00:52 IMO, TAEB is restricted by having a global singleton for everything; it would be a shame if Crawl made the same mistake 14:00:52 There is a readability gain the way i'm doing it. 14:01:12 scarf: yes, i agree... i tried to fix that a few months back, but it was too much work 14:01:15 scarf: crawl made that mistake aaages ago 14:01:46 most of the games should follow a MVC-like pattern anyway 14:02:09 sorear: yep, it's a mistake I'm trying hard not to make in any of my future programs, as it's so hard to fix after the fact 14:02:26 felirx: most do, to some extent or other 14:02:31 and so I tend to overcompensate 14:03:00 sorear: it's more descriptive. 14:03:01 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:03 sorear: what do you expect this draw() function to do? 14:03:07 We're not in the 80s anymore. 14:03:21 ixtli: that's not really a reasonable argument 14:03:22 d: 14:03:28 No, it is. 14:03:36 Self documentation is very important. 14:03:40 Seeing draw() is terrible. 14:03:47 Seeing UIManager.draw() is quite a bit better. 14:03:53 ixtli: i agree with what you're saying, but "everyone says to do it this way" and "we're not in the 80s anymore" are really really bad arguments for your case 14:03:56 d: 14:03:57 Code /should/ be reasonable. 14:03:58 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:03:59 is there a limit on number of uniques in one level? 14:04:11 doy: I'm being sarcastic. 14:04:14 sorear: I don't think I will try to hunt down Brodale on the wiki. No time. 14:04:14 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 14:04:50 sorear: people just mused that you might know his address (in which case I'd be writing an email to him.) 14:04:59 didn't post this 14:05:01 http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:species:dwarves 14:05:09 doy: However, not in the 80s is a meaningful argument. 14:05:09 dpeg it has what I was talking about summarized 14:05:17 Vandal: but I read it! It's good. 14:05:21 oh 14:05:22 ok :D 14:05:43 Vandal: have to leave, so I only replied to borsuk, who's proposal is a bit more urgent (good ideas on rods). 14:05:50 Vandal: I like support for small dwarves :) 14:06:05 borsuk is great, where did he post? 14:06:15 Did your discussion move to the higher topos of semantics? 14:06:25 Vandal: just check global recent changes 14:06:32 oh? how do you do that? 14:06:36 doy: The reason why people got used to the crypticism of old languages and the coding styles that they used is, in part, because of term width and such. 14:06:36 I found his page 14:06:40 manually 14:07:09 Vandal: there is Recent Changes, and there is a link to "all changes" or somethign. You have to look hard, but it's there :) 14:07:10 one thing I fear with a name like draw() as a global is that it'll clash with a library function 14:07:41 you could get around that with namespaces, but by then you may as well just use a class 14:07:43 sorear: in all seriousness, though I just followed the coding style applied in TilesFramework class. 14:08:04 if you're following mvc in a game, it makes very much sense to have View represented by a class responsible for rendering the model 14:08:15 I'm most concerned with readability, because a good compiler will make them all equally as fast. 14:08:22 in tiles case, TilesFramework handless that role 14:08:40 ixtli: short lines help readability too 14:08:44 it's not just about terminal width 14:09:02 sensibly named variables help readability more than shortened cryptic ones though 14:09:05 doy: I don't know if I agree ... sure, one should work to not make his code overly verbose ... 14:09:40 i'm not suggesting using cryptic variable names 14:09:46 where do you see a global changes listing? I am blind or something 14:09:53 just saying, 200-character lines are not helpful for readability 14:09:56 doy: Oh, you just mean breaking lines at 80 chars 14:09:57 sure :) 14:10:20 not sure what else you could have been talking about with "term width" 14:10:59 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: zzz] 14:11:39 doy: So, historically, the 80 char limit was due to display size. 14:12:03 well, sure 14:12:23 even nowadays, it's often still due to display size 14:12:23 (for what it's worth, plenty of people (including me) still use 80-char terms, so not *entirely* historically) 14:12:25 doy: What I said was in reaction to code that I've seen that seemed like it was written on one of those terminals. 14:12:30 oooooh 14:12:31 I found it 14:12:33 I really am blind 14:12:36 80 width is fine 14:12:51 I usually code with two sources side by side, having space for about 90 on both 14:12:52 I like to open two files side-by-side in emacs, you can't really fit that onto the screen if they're much wider than 80 14:12:53 doy: I still try and break my lines at 80 as well. 14:13:07 Same here. I use 2 or 4 windows in vim 14:14:05 Basically, there's a happy medium to be reached here. Same with functional vs. oo 14:14:36 sorear: oo gets abused everywhere, I agree. But keeping state in a class is an elegant solution in this case, I think. 14:14:48 if it makes sense to have your code be a concrete object, make it a class 14:14:57 that's pretty much all you need to think about 14:15:33 if it's nothing other than raw wrappers to from api to another, maybe just stuck them all to a namespace 14:16:00 it's one of the best things about perl - doesn't care if you want to write things procedurally, object orientedly, functionally, etc 14:16:00 felirx: I dunno, classes provide a clean way to keep track of state. 14:16:04 can just use whatever makes sense 14:16:05 (: 14:16:07 :D 14:16:16 if you need to track state of an object, your thing is an object 14:16:17 doy: That's why I <3 python/lisp 14:16:30 * ixtli nods 14:16:32 people these days look at any subunit of a program and go "oh, that looks like a class" 14:16:35 I blame Java 14:16:41 I'll murder you in your sleep if you try to track state in some global variables 14:16:41 Oh god, me too. 14:17:00 I will help 14:17:04 me too! 14:17:16 sorear: Actually, to be fair, we should blame people being taught programming concepts in java 14:17:19 if you're going to make a "class" with nothing but static members, why not just store the functions in a... FILE! 14:17:41 yeah, not sure who decided that java was a good teaching language 14:17:51 what a horrible idea 14:17:54 apparently it's easier than C++, the industry standard 14:18:19 the paradigms and general approaches of programming are the same irregardles of language used 14:18:26 felirx: doy: it is NO coincidence that my very, very large university has a tons of sun appliances in their server rooms .... 14:18:47 s/a// 14:19:58 Uh. 5am. Sleep. 14:20:48 Keskitalo, I think I finished moving the page for now 14:21:01 Howto updated and categories created for CAO & CDO 14:27:50 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 14:29:30 -!- eith_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:30:14 Java deserves hate 14:30:36 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 14:30:57 I must express my distaste with the SF tracker being hidden 14:31:09 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:27 is it being denied to non-devs, or merely its presence being hidden? 14:32:36 TGW: the issue is, there's not really any alternative 14:33:15 sourceforge doesn't let you disable posting to it without hiding it entirely 14:35:00 oh man I love sourceforge 14:35:19 TGW: I've briefly talked with Napkin about it and it sounded like make a copy of it to host on CDO for browsing would be a good idea, so that might be the route we end up heading eventually. They'll probably want the SF part closed at least for 0.6 release though 14:35:40 yeah, I can see the motivation 14:36:20 but it's a massive number of ideas and some of them are even good, it would be a shame to hide them 14:37:25 03j-p-e-g * rfc194cb67777 10/crawl-ref/source/ (rltiles/player/transform/lich_form.png tilereg.cc): New Necromutation tile, based on Porkchop's idea. 14:37:25 03j-p-e-g * r497584e782b0 10/crawl-ref/source/misc.cc: Fix double-prompt when leaving the dungeon during the tutorial. 14:37:25 03j-p-e-g * rf1e0de3db38c 10/crawl-ref/source/tutorial.cc: Various tutorial tweaks, making the introduction work with ASCII again. 14:43:04 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: ixtli] 14:44:01 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 14:49:16 Napkin: Looking good! 14:49:53 TGW: Ah, I didn't even consider people outside of the team would have interest in the old FRs, which is pretty silly of me. :) 14:50:03 Keskitalo: the solution is to make me a dev 14:50:12 Indeed! 14:50:50 Hmmh. Could cross fingers and hope the "DON'T POST HERE" sign actually stops people posting there. 14:51:00 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:51:08 I thought someone managed to post there anyway 14:51:18 I haven't checked. :P 14:51:49 03Keskitalo * r44d9bb63a9a9 10/crawl-ref/source/tilesdl.h: Add MOD_NONE to key_mod enums (ixtli) 14:51:49 I could do with a private tracker, with a promise to put the FRs somewhere in the future 14:52:28 Moving them by hand is ;_; 14:52:47 Don't know if there's export options. 14:53:01 how about if we "accidentally" delete them 14:53:08 Keskitalo: moving them automatically (into our actual new tracker anyway) would be even more ;_; 14:53:20 because like 80-90% of them are so worthless 14:53:43 May I close the old worthless FRs on mantis? 14:53:52 Yeah, but could move them into read-only place. 14:54:02 sorear: like? 14:54:13 sorear: SF would have backups ;-) 14:54:16 are there old worthless FRs on mantis? 14:54:21 SF.net used to have export options, there's some very interesting speculation on the Internet about VA Linux's vendor lockin programme if you know where to look 14:54:37 most of them seem relatively current and of moderate worth 14:54:40 -!- tinyrodent has joined ##crawl-dev 14:54:50 post-052 at the least 14:54:55 can anyone tell me about 27-headed Lernaean hydra skeleton 14:55:00 henzell doesn't know it 14:55:09 tinyrodent: it's the lernaean hydra but a skeleton 14:55:16 @??the lernaean hydra skeleton 14:55:16 large skeleton (15Z) | Speed: 8 | HD: 30 | Health: 191-233 | AC/EV: 0/0 | Damage: 14 per head | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(0), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 3266. 14:55:16 and it has 27 heads 14:55:20 I believe this is a known bug 14:55:28 beh, why consider it a bug 14:55:33 the only thing wrong there is the xp potential 14:55:38 scarf: shows up randomly is all 14:55:41 hmm, and at speed:8, it should be kitable 14:55:43 @??lernaean hydra 14:55:43 the Lernaean hydra (08D) | Speed: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 30 | Health: 150 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Damage: 18 per head | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(120), 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 7599. 14:55:58 ah, it's showing up randomly because i need to do some cherry-picking 14:55:59 does it leave the lernaean hydra corpse? 14:56:03 that was fixed in master, i believe 14:56:10 or the hydra corpse of the lernaean hydra? 14:56:10 boring 14:56:22 Documentation in keybind.txt inaccurate for level map far movement commands (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=925) by marcmagus 14:56:49 -!- TGW has left ##crawl-dev 14:56:49 damage potential of 486?!?! 14:56:54 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 14:56:54 that's insane. 14:57:15 are you trying to tell me the "x" doesn't mean "focus on this window" 14:57:20 doy: first one I find is http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=293 14:57:27 27 separate hits almost guarantees that you aren't going to get anywhere near that amount of damage 14:57:36 (although it is possible) 14:57:51 im thinkin ranged attack :) 14:57:55 sorear: the best part is how I thought that was a good idea 14:57:59 sorear: yeah, that one's probably fine to close 14:58:02 although isky's orb is still a better name 14:58:17 TGW: with 0 EV and 10 light AC, 99th percentile damage for TLH is only 150 14:58:22 tinyrodent: with 0 EV and 10 light AC, 99th percentile damage for TLH is only 150 14:58:46 03Keskitalo * rd48dcf7ac16c 10/crawl-ref/docs/keybind.txt: Fix incorrect listing of CMD_MAP_JUMP commands. Fixes Mantis [925]. 14:59:07 statistics are confusing 14:59:17 That was fun. :) 14:59:23 lernaean hydra should get reaching! 14:59:23 (: 14:59:50 doy: only if it's special 8-space reaching 15:00:07 fr: a swamp end with a lernaean hydra simulacrum 15:00:14 though no one even melees the live one :( 15:00:28 I'm still partial to the oklobra. 15:01:09 KMONS: L = the lernaean hydra simulacrum spells:blink_close 15:01:42 ;paralyze;haste 15:02:11 hp:1000000 15:02:19 4000+ damage potential if the target has -rc 15:02:26 lol 15:03:16 did summon greater servant get tweaked? i seem to get a lot more hostile ones. 15:03:25 no 15:03:34 the spell has always been pretty bad 15:03:38 or is this makhleb 15:03:40 oh greater servant 15:03:41 it's the makhleb ability 15:03:42 obviously 15:03:45 ahh 15:03:49 you just know that, when you publish 0.6, loads of people will complain about things you never changes 15:03:51 *never changed 15:04:03 I don't think devs are allowed to change makhleb 15:04:03 mahkleb definitely hasn't been touched 15:04:09 ok.. so what will be the new header of the wordpress? 15:04:27 TGW: who is, then? 15:04:32 aw, sorear and dpeg bumped my old FR and +1'd it 15:04:35 or is he just set in stone forever? 15:05:02 scarf: Makhleb is currently considered the gold standard of god design. 15:05:04 Keskitalo, still around? 15:05:13 Makhleb will be changable once the other gods have caught up 15:05:19 sorear: ah, makes sense 15:05:31 so I guess as a necromancer, a stack of TLH chunks + Simulacrum is the ultimate nuke? 15:05:34 so you might tweak him to get rid of an awful exploit, if one is noticed, but not for rebalancing or flavour change or anything like that 15:05:42 yes 15:05:47 sorear: yes, too bad you can't get very far with the chunks 15:05:52 how long has makhleb been exactly the same? 15:06:03 TGW: since 0.4 15:06:09 oh hurr 15:06:11 how was he changed in 0.4? 15:06:23 syllogism: killing summons no longer returns health / gives piety 15:06:59 that's not reaaaally a mahkleb change though 15:07:05 was that when summons stopped giving exp? 15:07:09 we need a slogan 15:07:15 Napkin: Partially! :) 15:07:21 hey :) 15:07:26 I like "Development live!" actually.. 15:07:33 oh, ok :) 15:07:33 tgw: yes, I was going to farm xp in temple with summon greater demons 15:07:48 :P 15:07:48 But could we use the rotating god welcoming messages? :D 15:07:55 but I mistakenly mentioned this to greensnark :P 15:07:57 hehehe 15:08:10 would be tricky for such a hardcoded thingy :D 15:08:23 but maybe instead of the "About" on the landing page? :D 15:09:07 also thinking about centering page-headers.. 15:10:41 who is denzi? 15:12:13 Tiles and splash screen -drawing person form Japan afaik. 15:13:08 Napkin: "Spread chaos and carnage!" Hi and welcome to Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup! :) 15:13:11 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:27:40 "On that matter: I think Kobolds should become Mace specialists, Pikel sets the example with his runed whips." 15:27:42 good idea vandal 15:27:57 :) 15:28:11 Yeah there really aren't a lot of races with better Mace apt than others 15:28:54 as for sneakyness 15:28:57 Kobolds could be the bashers 15:29:03 I'm kidding because kobold already has 100 mnf 15:29:20 !apt ko long blade 15:29:21 Ko (SK_LONG_BLADES)=140 15:29:24 huh 15:29:53 !apt mace 15:29:53 Maces: Dr=100, Dr[black]=100, Ce=110, DD=100, DE=165*, DG=110, DS=110, Gh=110, Dr[green]=100, Dr[grey]=100, Ha=150, HE=150, HO=80, Hu=100, Ke=75, Ko=100, Mf=150, Mi=70!, Dr[mottled]=100, MD=70!, Mu=140, Na=100, Og=90, Dr[pale]=100, Dr[purple]=100, Dr[red]=100, SE=140, Sp=160, Tr=130, Vp=140, Dr[white]=100, Dr[yellow]=100 15:30:00 compare to ha's 100 lbl 15:30:16 Well, good point 15:30:18 !apt ke 15:30:18 Ke: Air=90, Armour=90, Axes=75, Bows=80, Conj=60!, Xbows=80, Darts=90, Div=180, Dodge=90, Earth=120, Ench=160, Evo=75, Exp=130, Fighting=100, Fire=90, Ice=120, Inv=120*, Long=75, Maces=75, Nec=80, Poison=100, Polearms=75, Shields=100, Short=75, Slings=100, Splcast=130, Stab=80, Staves=75, Stealth=100, Summ=70!, Throw=90, Tloc=150, Tmut=150, Traps=100, Unarmed=80! 15:30:35 ko with mnf is already plenty viable 15:30:40 yeah 15:30:41 I choose it with my warpers 15:30:42 it would seem so 15:31:01 on a related note, someone should make maces lightgrey 15:31:53 they already are 15:32:00 :P 15:32:05 in the selection screen for kobolds I mean 15:32:32 I mean, if 100 is good enough for humans it's good enough for kobolds 15:32:45 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 15:32:52 aren't kobolds small 15:33:06 small maces are suddenly good 15:33:12 have you seen eveningstars and demon whips 15:33:16 and maces are heavy str if that means anything 15:33:31 oh haven't really looked into mace overhaul 15:33:53 all of the weapons have patently ridiculous stats 15:34:09 eveningstars and demon whips aren't exactly leaping out of the walls though 15:34:24 well, neither are good long blades 15:34:58 I'm not sure how that's relevant since long blades aren't a choice anywhere but I thought you might want to know 15:35:41 TGW you were recently commenting on how a lot of monsters have see invis 15:35:45 Right? 15:35:55 moaning and complaining, yes 15:36:03 you are too conservative in verb usage 15:36:06 You also told me Invis is great for stabbers 15:36:14 it is 15:36:14 (I'm not trying to pick a fight, TGW :D ) 15:36:28 Is that because it gives you opportunity stabs? 15:36:31 as long as you're not trying to stab uniques 15:36:40 well gee, it makes your stealth roughly infinity 15:36:54 and vs. awake things that can't see invis, you get opportunity stabs? 15:37:06 ??stealth 15:37:07 stealth[1/4]: Your character's ability to sneak around undetected. Base stealth is 3*dex + spf*SK_STEALTH, then modified as in {modified_stealth}. spf is based on the species, ranging from 9 to 21. 15:37:08 yes 15:37:13 ??stealth[2] 15:37:13 stealth[2/4]: Base stealth is 3*dex + stealth*character value. Character values are: Troll, Ogre, Ogre Mage, Centaur: 9; Minotaur: 12; Gnome, Halfling, Kobold, Spriggan, Naga, Vampire: 18; Vampire when hungry/bat: 19; All others: 15. 15:37:16 see that seems even more valuable 15:37:17 ??stealth[3] 15:37:17 also, guys, about sense invis 15:37:18 stealth[3/4]: @ values are: Extremely unstealthy <10, Very unstealthy <30, unstealthy <60, fairly <90, normal <120, quite <160, very <220, extremely <300, extraordinarily <400, incredibly <520, uncannily >=520 15:37:21 ??stealth[4] 15:37:22 stealth[4/4]: Expectation of available time (in your actions, so no penalty for naganess) is stealth / perc, where perc = 22 + HD ... +4 for smart, -4/-8/-12 for animal/insect/plant, +5 for sense invis, +50 for Glow, +10 for unnatural sleeping, -75 for invisible (wowza that's a big bonus!) 15:37:23 what effect does spell power have on tukima's dance? 15:37:30 p'raps you could make it use a different perception modifier 15:37:37 instead of a range constraint 15:37:53 anyways I was just thinking 15:38:01 invis + stabbing does seem like a great combo 15:38:06 but what do you do about bosses? 15:38:18 stab normally 15:38:28 and when that doesn't work? 15:39:06 enchant if MR allows, else beat them up 15:39:10 seems like a heavy investment of xp to be a competent invis using stabber 15:39:10 hopefully you have trained another weapon skill or conjurations or something by that point 15:39:15 ??modified stealth 15:39:16 modified stealth[1/1]: /2 when encumbered, /5 when burdened, /3 when confused; +20 elven cloak, +20 elven boots, +50 boots of stealth, +80 shadow card effect, +-artifact modifiers, -armour mass in aum for heavy armour, +10 when in air, +50 if you swim, /2 if you can't, -10 hooves, -50 silence. 15:39:31 are you trying to tell me that casting level 6 enchantment spells is very far out of your way 15:39:47 only until you've cleared Lair, but yes 15:40:33 I'd like to have a good stabber some time, just trying to think of how I would deal with ghosts / bosses I can't 1 hit KO in the early game 15:40:33 eh will serve fine until well past lair 15:41:05 doy: I know it will, I'm saying until that point you wouldn't really have the xp to do much else besides stab and cast Invis 15:41:29 exactly what else would you need to do 15:41:43 kill ghosts and uniques that don't die in 1 hit 15:41:49 I mean I guess you can get lucky with wands 15:41:52 but I don't see how else 15:41:59 patch_guide is .. ungitty.. 15:42:04 just run away I suppose 15:42:11 Which is ok, should just change it. 15:42:15 Keskitalo: yes, i mentioned that earlier 15:42:24 Yeah, I recall it was talked about a bit. 15:42:45 Vandal: confusion works well too 15:44:06 apply.. appliable? applicable? 15:44:10 easily appliable patches? 15:46:08 appliable and applicable are both words 15:46:24 they mean exactly the same thing 15:46:29 ok, thanks :) 15:46:35 what effect does spell power have on tukima's dance? it's kind of annoying that my dancing weapon can't keep up with regular speed movement. 15:47:22 tinyrodent: just duration, i believe 15:47:39 in the hall of blades dancing weapons are much faster moving than regular speed 15:47:45 tinyrodent: dancing weapon speed is based on the actual weapon speed now, i think? 15:47:58 i dont mean attack speed but movement speed 15:48:09 i have to keep waiting for the weapon to catch up 15:48:14 i know, i think it was changed so they both are 15:48:17 or something 15:48:22 much much slower than weapons in hall of blades 15:48:25 sorear would know 15:50:37 see ghost.cc:init_dancing_weapon() 15:50:48 !source init_dancing_weapon 15:51:02 Couldn't find init_dancing_weapon in the Crawl source tree 15:51:10 is there an easy way to download all the source? or do i have to install git 15:51:14 hihi, works, Keskitalo :D 15:51:36 But seriously, we need better welcoming message for Kiku! 15:51:53 Hilarious! 15:52:08 "Kill them all!" is such a nice warm welcome to the project. :D 15:52:20 quite a difference :D "Go forth and aid the weak!" or "Blood and souls for Makhleb!" :D 15:52:35 * Napkin giggles * 15:52:36 tinyrodent: Installing git is the best option. 15:52:52 tinyrodent: msysgit for windows is a fairly self-contained package. 15:52:59 ok thanks 15:53:02 ah, apparently spell power for tukima affects all kinds of things now 15:53:59 tinyrodent: http://msysgit.googlecode.com/files/msysGit-netinstall-1.6.4-preview20090730.exe 15:54:06 Recommended installation package :) 15:54:23 Read the git-quickstart, I'll link in a sec.. 15:55:16 @?? dancing weapon 15:55:16 dancing weapon (10() | Speed: 12-19 | HD: 15 | Health: 16-54 | AC/EV: 12/17 | Damage: 12 | Flags: 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 11elec+++, 03poison++ | XP: 1119. 15:55:16 http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl-ref.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/docs/develop/git/quickstart.txt;h=f4b3988e590b6b0f357fa7b0eb58e4b3043317a5;hb=HEAD 15:55:45 You think the link categories and their contents are ok (at least for today), Eino? 15:56:22 I linked Documentation, Screenshots, Downloads, create categories for CAO & CDO, updated the Howto-page 15:56:38 Napkin: "Project" should be "The Game"? 15:56:47 good point 15:57:20 done 15:57:23 The chaosforge wiki link should be "Game Wiki". 15:57:38 That's about it, looks excellent otherwise! 15:57:39 ja? ok, changing it back 15:58:01 Done :) 15:58:04 Thanks! 15:58:19 It's like to add a link "Source" - but where to point to? 15:58:29 Keskitalo: thanks installing msysgit and reading the quickstart. will the git email address be published? 15:58:29 Yeah. :) 15:59:04 yes, tinyrodent 15:59:21 tinyrodent: Yeah, if you submit patches. 15:59:24 or maybe even a page (a.k.a. big button link :D) 15:59:38 tinyrodent: No need to set it otherwise I think. 15:59:49 (The quickstart is primarily aimed at developers) 16:00:05 ok i'll try without. prefer not to publish email address and become a spam target 16:00:54 I think I'll nuke references to anything except git when it comes to source in patch guide.. 16:01:18 good idea, Keskitalo 16:02:38 03j-p-e-g * rb5c4c8c9870a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (misc.cc tilereg.cc): Change the message upon entering a labyrinth. 16:04:33 Is the person registered as "vitara" (in Mantis) in here? 16:05:35 If I get one more "verification email" from spamarrest.com, I will disable that account. 16:08:23 -!- GrimmSweeper has joined ##crawl-dev 16:11:29 03Keskitalo * r0e8db4e15aeb 10/crawl-ref/docs/develop/process.txt: Update process.txt to reflect the move to CDO Mantis/Wiki. 16:11:32 03Keskitalo * r3424dfefd13a 10/crawl-ref/docs/develop/patch_guide.txt: Update patch_guide.txt to reflect the use of git. 16:11:33 doy: Can you double-check the patch_guide ? 16:11:43 Keskitalo: i'll look it over this evening 16:11:50 Thanks! 16:17:17 Cleaned up the 0.6 page a little.. 16:23:45 well i'm not sure when it changed but tukima's dance is currently quite nerfed compared with 5.1 16:23:58 it doesn't seem very useful anymore 16:25:26 it's useful with higher spell power 16:25:49 it's not useful if you just pick up just enough enchantments to make it castable 16:25:53 which was intentional 16:26:24 somewhat more useful at higher spell power. but playing right now i have half power and it's quite useless 16:26:35 can't even deliver a killing blow to mummies 16:26:42 dies in one hit 16:26:57 and can't keep up with regular movement speed. even a fast weapon like long sword 16:27:24 i compared a bunch of blades, only dagger could keep up 16:28:48 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 16:29:14 morning all 16:29:34 tinyrodent: these are max power stats: There is no form numbered 2 at /usr/share/perl5/site_perl/5.10.1/App/Nopaste/Service/Pastie.pm line 13 16:29:37 oops 16:29:54 i've got the source code in front of me 16:30:13 ah 16:30:16 movement speed is unaffected by spell power 16:30:27 yes it is 16:30:43 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 16:30:56 int delay = property(weapon, PWPN_SPEED); speed = 30 - delay; 16:31:01 keep reading 16:31:06 speed = std::max(3, speed - (10 - power / 15)); 16:31:08 ah 16:32:25 so basically, 20 - delay + 16:32:31 ok but still in a real game with Power #####..... (half?) only a dagger is fast enough to keep up with regular movement speed? 16:33:49 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:33:58 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:34:47 at half power, any weapon with speed less than 150% should be able to keep up with you 16:35:01 i don't know what exactly the power display on the spell menu corresponds to 16:35:14 a tukima's demon blade of flaming can't even kill a giant toad. it dies in a single hit 16:35:19 at half power. 16:35:22 well 16:35:24 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:35:37 hp is based on weapon mass 16:35:42 as is ac 16:35:50 so bigger weapons have more hp 16:39:02 03j-p-e-g * r709ebbd3855b 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Mantis #924: Prevent some uniques from ditching their weapon. 16:41:28 ok but even small weapons are too slow. big weapons will suffer more of a speed penalty. i think from play testing that the spell is no longer particularly useful. it's also not very similar to the dancing weapons in hall of blades, which it used to be 16:41:37 at half power, that demon blade should be getting speed 10, damage 13+13(flame), ac 7, ev 13, hp 20 16:42:06 well maybe the spell power display is misleading. 16:43:07 alright, website moved, I think :) 16:43:30 FYI: Permalinks enabled too... like: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/blog & http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/the-amazing-adventures-of-che-nagavara 16:43:56 nice 16:44:18 TODO: "Source" & "Screenshots" 16:50:03 The god welcome messages are so good. "Welcome, disciple." "A new plaything!" 16:51:32 -!- TGW has quit [*.net *.split] 16:51:32 -!- MarvinPA has quit [*.net *.split] 16:51:33 -!- scarf has quit [*.net *.split] 16:51:33 -!- Eifeltrampel has quit [*.net *.split] 16:51:57 nice site :) i subscribed to the rss feed 16:52:53 Thanks! :) 16:53:17 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 16:53:17 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 16:53:17 -!- scarf has joined ##crawl-dev 16:53:17 -!- Eifeltrampel has joined ##crawl-dev 16:59:58 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:00:17 Hi pointless! 17:01:57 Hi 17:02:20 -!- Eifeltrampel has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:02:36 I will try and finish the play-testing post tonight. 17:02:47 Morning due :) 17:02:54 This is unlikely :) 17:03:26 check the restructured wordpress when you have some time :) 17:05:31 is there an official pluralisation for naga? 17:06:39 german wikipedia says nagas 17:07:01 nagas 17:07:13 A female nāga is a nāgīn or nāginī. 17:07:14 :D 17:08:28 03j-p-e-g * r679adf07b98c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc directn.cc): Fix #757: Duplicate punctuation in feature descriptions. 17:14:01 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper has joined ##crawl-dev 17:14:57 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:14:57 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper is now known as GrimmSweeper 17:16:14 -!- tinyrodent has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:24:20 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper has joined ##crawl-dev 17:24:58 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:24:58 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper is now known as GrimmSweeper 17:39:10 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:02 Checking for gcc fails (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=926) by JoachimSchipper 17:42:18 openbsd 'which' sends error messages to stdout? 17:42:35 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:42:36 unices... 17:42:42 that sounds... pretty broken 17:43:08 same on aix 17:43:22 if you don't gamble you can't wn 17:43:23 win 17:43:33 I started out with 3 pieces of ponderous armour on a KoAs 17:43:33 :D 17:45:05 -!- by has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:45:06 -!- by_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:45:41 12 potions of heal wounds? Right... 17:45:51 (: 17:46:20 probably should have tried to find another 500 to pay the fee outright 17:47:04 Compiling with gcc-3.3.5 fails (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=927) by JoachimSchipper 17:47:20 "who cares" 17:48:29 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:44 !tell kilobyte thanks for writing termcat, by the way, it's come in useful at least twice for me over the last couple of weeks 17:48:46 scarf: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 17:50:03 chei should hate kobolds (they recover from sickness quickly) 17:50:04 :D 17:52:06 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:53:06 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:55:35 wow, found an eveningstar on a Ko 17:56:28 nice 17:57:55 ?? joseph 17:57:55 joseph[1/1]: Looks like a mercenary. Has been hired to slay Jozef. Amusing when found with {Josephine}. 17:58:13 Cheibriados rebukes Joseph. 17:58:13 _Joseph seems to slow down. You feel slightly less full. 17:58:15 still asleep 17:58:16 score 17:59:24 -1,+0 evening star 17:59:29 must've been like -1-2 17:59:29 wait, we have Jozef, Joseph, and Josephine? 17:59:31 before enchanting 18:00:36 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 18:02:06 -!- yobbo has joined ##crawl-dev 18:02:46 ####.... is not half power, not even close 18:02:53 ####.... is sqrt(power) 18:03:06 the display is logarithmic 18:03:49 doy: do you know how unix 'which' is canonically implemented? 18:03:53 -!- timecircuits has left ##crawl-dev 18:03:54 csh script :D 18:04:22 sorear: yes, i did know that 18:04:23 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 18:04:28 (unfortunately) 18:04:43 why - csh can output to stderr too 18:05:18 had to trace down some annoying bugs with that on some solaris machines at school 18:05:37 when trying to change my shell to bash 18:05:46 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:08:41 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:22:12 Trove is asking for "9 potions of brillance" (spelling mistake) (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=928) by yobbo 18:26:58 brillant! 18:28:32 twas brillg 18:38:17 [19:02] ####.... is not half power, not even close 18:38:23 really? this explains a lot 18:39:01 03j-p-e-g * r3454072fb257 10/crawl-ref/source/ (12 files in 4 dirs): Add new design for Cheibriados' altar, now complete with clock. 18:39:02 that display needs to be reworked to be more intuitive 18:39:05 whats even more fun is you dont have max power even when you have max hashes =p 18:39:12 ... seriously/ 18:39:13 ? 18:39:23 sometimes you do, but its hard to tell 18:39:24 wow that really needs reworked 18:40:10 ?? spell power[4] 18:40:10 spell power[4/5]: Got bars? You have at least 0, 6, 11, 16, 26, 36, 51, 76, 101, 151 power. 18:41:51 I guess they avoided linear because some spells cap at 50 power and some cap at 150 power, etc. But the current setup is clearly flawed 18:44:15 Is there any problem with simply having the same number of bars for all spells, and just have them each display linearly between 0 and their caps? 18:49:54 Twinge_: I'm going to experimentally try that 18:49:59 after I finish DS 18:54:37 Good deal. Only thing I can think of is if anyone was using it to gague spell power compared to each other, but generally speaking it isn't very good for that anyway and spell level is a good rough estimate too 18:55:12 what would that help? 18:55:44 Twinge_: spell power is incomparable between spells anyway 18:55:46 sorear awesome 18:56:06 yes that would be far less misleading than the current system 18:56:17 sorear: Then I can't think of any other reason why it might be a bad change 19:02:07 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:37 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:04:37 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper is now known as GrimmSweeper 19:24:54 representing the actual power cap is a useful feature 19:25:46 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper has joined ##crawl-dev 19:25:46 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:25:48 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper is now known as GrimmSweeper 19:26:48 particularly for maledictions, for which spell power has a uniform meaning 19:27:22 and for which non-relative power is a very, very good indicator of "is this spell going to do anything" 19:36:23 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 19:36:30 Napkin, Yo nap, you there by chance? 19:37:00 -!- TGW has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:38:00 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 19:41:19 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:50:17 -!- Iainuki_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:42:59 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper has joined ##crawl-dev 20:42:59 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:43:01 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper is now known as GrimmSweeper 20:50:29 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 20:54:56 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 20:56:09 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 21:13:27 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 21:32:03 ??maledictions 21:32:03 I don't have a page labeled maledictions in my learndb. 21:34:49 maledictions are hostile enchantments, the kind that have to pass a MR roll 21:35:15 also: one of the fragments in the 0.8 SK_ENCHANTMENTS breakup 21:38:01 Ah, right. Don't really see that being relevant enough to keep the awkward log scale though 21:38:21 log scale, no 21:38:26 scale in general, yes 21:38:32 absolute power is imperative 21:38:50 no, in general it isn't 21:39:09 just for the specific case of hostile enchantments it is 21:43:13 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:43:39 03neunon * r1551cca81ec6 10/crawl-ref/source/AppHdr.h: AppHdr.h: use 'ifdef __MWERKS__' instead of 'if __MWERKS__' 21:43:41 03neunon * rd36f928201a6 10/crawl-ref/source/contrib/sqlite: sqlite: fix Intel compiler breakage 21:43:42 03neunon * r6dc061e3735e 10/crawl-ref/source/contrib/sqlite: sqlite: fix gitignore rules 21:43:43 03neunon * r96ea06c7ad98 10/crawl-ref/source/contrib/sdl: sdl: fix gitignore rules 21:43:45 03neunon * rebded3208a52 10/crawl-ref/source/losparam.h: losparam.h: add missing access specifiers for inherited structs 21:43:46 And I still don't know how it's relevant there either :P 21:43:47 03neunon * r38f519b830d3 10/crawl-ref/source/ (stash.cc stash.h): stash.{cc,h}: remove meaningless qualifier on return type 21:43:48 03neunon * rfbc04a5da3a6 10/crawl-ref/source/exclude.cc: exclude.cc: add missing access specifier for inherited struct 21:43:50 03neunon * rd6b26f63739d 10/crawl-ref/source/makefile: makefile: fix build on the Intel compiler 21:43:53 03neunon * redc19f900d90 10/crawl-ref/source/ (12 files in 4 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://crawl-ref.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/crawl-ref/crawl-ref 21:44:37 spell power works the same for all maledictions 21:45:23 the absolute power, not the power relative to the cap, is important to know when evaluating against MR 21:45:44 i don't know that it's incredibly important, really 21:45:56 i mean... you figure it out 21:59:34 Rather, if that's the case, there should be a better way to convey that importation anyway, I think 22:02:06 Morning. 22:02:17 Well. 'afternoon, I guess. 22:02:57 Evening. 22:03:26 ixtli: this channel covers all time zones, anything you could say is equally wrong and equally right 22:16:50 Evening, here. :3 22:24:05 hello neunon 22:24:51 neunon: Hey. 22:25:09 neunon: I'm close to modularizing all the SDL code. 22:25:36 neunon: I'm pretty sure I didn't increase too much overhead, just a few switch() statements here and there. 22:26:20 you don't measure overhead in statements of any kind 22:26:33 there is only one valid way to measure overhead, and that's a clock 22:26:45 (whether you use 'time' or a profiler) 22:27:07 if you're counting statements, you are a filthy premature optimizer 22:27:34 Come on now, not all the time. Sometimes you really do need to be wary of creating too many stack frames. 22:27:49 (Not saying I am, at the moment.) 22:28:14 you do realize g++ is an optimizing compiler? 22:28:44 or just look at the size of the Crawl bianry 22:28:46 Of course, but I've run into stack overflows before using it on embedded systems. 22:28:56 Palm devices, specifically :'( 22:29:04 it wouldn't be 30+ MB without some serious excessive inlining :p 22:29:04 They make me cry in general, so. 22:29:19 doesn't the palm have like an 8kb stack? 22:29:31 we can safely use about 10,000 times that 22:31:30 -!- Iainuki_ has quit [Quit: Iainuki_] 23:08:25 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920]] 23:21:05 -!- TGW has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:22 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 23:39:52 Hmm. So inside 'static bool _raise_remains()' I can check info on the type of corpse being animated. What is the best way to transfer the result of these checks outside of this function? (Obviously right now it only returns true/false; I dunno if I should try to fiddle with the return result and make it an int isntead of a bool, or figure out how to do a global variable, or what.) 23:42:52 please god no managing state with globals :'( 23:43:34 Twinge_: I need a hair cut badly, but if you've not figured something out by the time I get back I'll be sure to help :D I've been source diving quite a bit recently, my self. 23:44:41 03neunon * r290637fc2afa 10/crawl-ref/source/contrib/sqlite: sqlite: fix inconsistent use of SQLITE_HAS_CODEC macro 23:44:51 Twinge_: add an int *motions out-parameter 23:45:13 #define DEAD_ARE_WALKING 1 23:45:18 #define DEAD_ARE_SWIMMING 2 23:45:24 #define DEAD_ARE_SLITHERING 3 23:45:27 actually 23:45:28 no 23:45:41 look at the Olgreb's Toxic Radiance code 23:45:52 there's a great example of AoE message compression there 23:47:34 Ok I'll take a look. 23:48:34 ixtli: I assumed a global was the wrong choice, but I am rather unfamiliar with not only the Crawl source but with C in general, so I was just tossing out possible methods I could think of. 23:50:37 And slithering would be a great addition too, I'll have to add that :) (Though it might get weird if it ends up with like 'The dead are flying, swimming, slithering, crawling, dancing, and walking!' or something ;) 23:51:36 Though I guess in practice that'd be really rare - you usually won't be surrounded by that many different types of monsters