00:00:05 Ah, right. 00:00:40 -!- Twinge_ is now known as Twinge 00:02:27 Looks like Evaporated Decay is a little too powerful, at any rate. Because of: A) tons of water/poison potions available from fulsome, which can then be easily converted into decay by killing a couple mummies, then B) I think they work on basically all non-undead non-demons, or pretty close to it. 00:03:02 it used to be a lot too powerful 00:03:08 so we nerfed the mummy curse 00:03:18 to reduce the supply of decay 00:03:37 Probably post 0.6, but something to note anyway. I'd also like to see slowing and paralysis potions actually do what they should instead of merely strong meph. 00:04:24 Well in this game, I simply dropped my potions, walked into Tomb with a stack of 25 poison, killed 4 mummies, got 22 converted to decay, read remove curse, and went about my business :) (Dunno how recently that was switched though - again, old trunkj copy) 00:05:05 it was changed quite a while ago 00:05:08 pre-0.4 I think 00:05:24 used to be you would have all 25 turned into decay after the very first mummy 00:05:53 Ah. 00:06:42 Maybe don't reduce the frequency any more, but reduce the amount converted? say, cap at 50% rounded up or something at least? Maybe I'll take a look at it 00:06:42 which was a little ludicrous for low-level transmuters meeting the first mummy of the game around D:6 00:06:48 Yep 00:06:52 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev 00:06:57 yeah. that's how the original nerf worked 00:07:04 it used to affect entire stacks, all the time 00:07:23 maybe we should cap the amount affected at, say, 4 00:10:44 Yeah, that's better than a percentage - more effective for anti-hoarding-decay and more logical 00:10:55 maybe the whole mechanic should be changed 00:12:02 i mean, there aren't any other mechanics in the game that can change items into other items, other than the blessed blade thing which is only vaguely like that 00:12:55 what if the death curse had a possibility of putting a curse on you, which turned any potion that you drank for the next couple hundred turns into decay at some chance (1 in 5 or so) 00:13:28 oh, thats evil. 00:14:59 Hmm. Mostly encourages boringly running away and waiting it out though, which is bad 00:15:18 Twinge: the current state encourages dropping all your potions, killing the mummy, then picking them all back up again 00:15:23 which is worse, in my opinion 00:15:34 True 00:17:17 any obvious flaws with this idea? 00:18:22 Just what I mentioned is all the comes to mind - the flaw being that it's only a less bad implementation instead of a good one :) Nothing better immediately ocmes to mind though 00:18:48 Also - You saw my message with the mini patch, correct? 00:19:26 yeah 00:20:35 I proposed a totally scum-free implementation - the 5 nearest potions in the dungeon of a given randomly chosen type are destroyed 00:20:40 everyone hates it though 00:21:34 sorear: probably because it isn't clear what, or if, happened. 00:21:56 and newbs will probably never figure that out, unless told. 00:22:38 yes 00:22:45 Textmode: this is Crawl, the player character is assumed to be a leading expert in dungeon ecology 00:22:59 we have nothing against actually saying what happened 00:23:30 "you feel like the potions three dlvls down in a nearby branch have changed into decay" 00:23:39 Hahaha 00:23:40 d: 00:23:54 "also, apprently you are an oracle" 00:24:00 -!- Yavar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:16 You have a sudden vision: That stack of 2 potions of healing you left on Lair:1 have gone bad. 00:25:32 Perhaps curses should be a bit more like divine wrath (though less extreme, obviously)? 00:26:38 Twinge: this isn't divination, this is simply being an expert 00:27:09 You realize that, having killed a mummy, the nearest 2 potions of healing have gone bad. You erase them from your stash-book. 00:27:27 sorear: the problem is that, unless you specifically flag those potions, its not clear what changed. 00:27:44 As the mummy dies, it curses some potions of yours - probably the 2 on Lair:2. 00:28:02 for what it's worth, i'm not a big fan of the current mapping implementation either, for similar reasons 00:28:02 And it also doesn't really make much sense if they're further away than the mummy can see imo 00:28:11 it's anti-scumming taken too far 00:28:19 sorear: then we are verging on oracality again. 00:28:23 mapping mutation, that is 00:28:31 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:28:57 Textmode: the mummies are oracles, they know where the potions are and say it in the curses 00:29:34 doy: how is it possible to take anti-scumming too far? 00:30:01 so the mummy randomly sputter "may your healing potions on lair 2, hive 1, and temple be fouled!" before colapsing to the floor? 00:30:32 sorear: by implementing things like the current mapping mutation, or this mummy death curse idea 00:30:55 how wonderfully curtious of him, now we know we don't have to go back for them. we could of wasted a lot of time backtracking for those. 00:31:17 current mapping seemed okay to me, though I haven't used it much 00:31:36 Text: The curse doesn't work unless he's specific, obviously 00:32:27 Twinge: personally, I'd spend my death curse on something more productive... 00:33:10 Twinge: to be fair though, thats a common requirement. 00:33:37 theres a nasty risk of breaking the 4th wall, though 00:33:46 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 00:42:10 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:43:03 Text: Don't get me wrong, I don't like the idea, I'm jsut running with the psuedo logic :) 00:44:30 the 4th wall can be moved, we've done it in the past 00:45:06 -!- Ero has joined ##crawl-dev 00:45:15 we don't butcher gameplay to fit it inside an arbitrary preconcieved notion of the player's responsibilities, like many others have 00:50:26 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:52:45 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 01:14:27 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 01:15:08 sorear: of course we don't butcher gameplay, Xom doesn't accept sacrifices. 01:30:11 -!- syllogism has quit [] 01:43:39 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:44:21 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 01:55:56 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:57:03 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 02:00:39 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 02:05:44 -!- permagreen has quit [Quit: For the shire!] 02:27:44 the new bad guy I just introduced in my D&D game is named Cheibriados :P 02:27:50 :] 02:37:21 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:37:59 elly, not cheibradpit? 02:42:13 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 02:42:44 that would be silly 02:43:04 chebradpit 02:43:12 a mix of 2 famous ppl :) 03:46:07 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 03:46:31 good morning 03:48:25 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 03:48:33 03neunon * r2a48b99d5587 10/crawl-ref/source/Crawl.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj: Xcode project: fix build failures due to source references and contrib breakage 03:49:17 03neunon * rb0dd87584f83 10/crawl-ref/source/contrib/ (freetype sdl sdl-image): contrib: fix build on Mac 03:53:49 -!- Ero has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:16:23 Cheibriados all seem so expensive to me.. 04:16:35 do they cost a lot of food and piety? 04:18:36 night all 04:18:42 g'night, Textmode :) 04:19:17 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:27:25 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:29:46 -!- murphy_slaw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:41:31 -!- murphy_slaw_ has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 04:43:20 -!- murphy_slaw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:44:52 mfrff, tilegen.elf error when building locally with msysgit.. 04:45:34 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:46:06 Cross-compile on CDO worked earlier today! 04:47:38 c:/msysgit/mingw/bin/../lib/gcc/mingw32/4.4.0/../../../../mingw32/bin/ld.exe: ca 04:47:41 nnot find -lSDL_image 04:47:55 I did make distclean and updated submodules. 04:50:02 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 04:50:53 neunon: ideas? 04:51:41 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:51:53 Morning dpeg! 04:51:58 Hi! 04:51:58 dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 04:52:02 !messages 04:52:02 (1/2) due said (11h 15m 48s ago): Agree, but again, I think we should leave nerfs for when we get feedback about slings in 0.6. 04:52:23 due: of course, I never talked about 0.6. 04:52:25 !messages 04:52:25 (1/1) due said (11h 15m 46s ago): Skill training definitely needs to be on the same level as crossbows, bows, etc. 04:52:52 Keskitalo: we need a new approach for SF->CDO migration. I cannot do it. 04:53:16 hi dpeg 04:53:23 Hallo Robert! 04:59:39 dpeg: Just leaving it is fine for FRs. 05:00:31 Keskitalo: yes, I suspect we should just move over content we're currently interested in. 05:00:41 instead of trying to get it all 05:01:03 then again, there's a bunch of obsolete or questionable stuff... perhaps we should close those 05:02:03 dpeg: But closedown should be done before 0.6, I can (and am interested) do that, but lack the admins. :) 05:02:36 dpeg: there's an option to disable the access to non-project-members for specific trackers 05:03:10 bhaak: We should do that, just need messages to point to cdo. 05:03:55 "Best Way To Get Help: Dungeon Crawl Reference says the best way to get help with its software is by creating a new item in the Bugs Tracker. " <- :-D 05:07:09 ouch :) 05:07:21 bhaak, make sure its on SF 05:08:14 cbus: what? you want me to open a bug report on it? :) http://sourceforge.net/projects/crawl-ref/support 05:10:28 Keskitalo: I will give you admin rights later today. I tried to close SF and failed. 05:13:14 Keskitalo: neunon was helping me fix the xcodeproj which required some messing with contribs so something could have happened 05:13:21 Keskitalo: I think he's asleep at the moment, though. 05:18:58 bhaak, nah, but tell ppl to go to SF and post a BR 05:18:58 ;D 05:19:01 and then just laugh at them 05:19:07 since nobody watches SF 05:20:35 bhaak: we need to fix all the references for release 05:20:45 so at least one week left =) 05:21:25 then don't forget to remove the links to the SF bug and feature tracker on http://crawl-ref.sourceforge.net/ :-) 05:21:33 dpeg: Ok, thanks! 05:22:02 bhaak: if we forget something (there's an insane number of references and links), please tell us! 05:22:18 ixtli: Yeah, he wrote to the mailing list and told to report problems about non-unix platforms. Cross-compiling on linux+mingw worked on cdo. :) Native msysgit windows building seems broken now! 05:22:20 There are still people going to dungeoncrawl.org (com?) for Crawl :( 05:22:34 dpeg: Ok, thanks! 05:22:49 hehe 05:23:02 dpeg: Heh. :) 05:23:04 angband is worse. They have three or four official homepage by now :) 05:23:19 bhaak: because there are so many variants? 05:24:07 dpeg: no, I mean vanilla angband. I don't know the real cause but it looks like every new maintainer of vanilla got a new homepage up 05:25:02 oh, bad idea 05:26:05 bhaak! welcome to the tracker :) 05:27:12 Napkin: be prepared to be swamped by feature request like 'crawl needs a ring of conflict' ;-) 05:27:34 "Need more instadeathse!" 05:27:53 03Keskitalo * rb9cdbf11ae81 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-mon/animals/giant_newt.png: Adjust brightness and contrast of the giant newt tile. It is now a lighter shade of gray, to make it stand out better from the regular dungeon floor. 05:27:57 dpeg, WHERE IS MY COCKATRICE!? 05:27:58 I still die quick enough, I need not more instadeaths :) 05:28:01 "Interface progression = regression!" 05:28:04 03Keskitalo * r9dcc67edbd3d 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-mon/animals/crocodile.png: Fix the crocodile shadow a little. 05:28:52 oh, you're really on the tracker 05:28:58 * dpeg gets cold shivers 05:30:27 hooray, Keskitalo :) 05:31:04 Napkin: Noticed problems with giant newts, I presume? :) 05:31:19 of course :) Glad you fixed that :) 05:31:23 killed by an unnoticed giant newt? 05:31:29 there is no category in the bug tracker "Crawl Variant" for not a code bug :) 05:32:19 "Other Both" 05:33:01 I would select that if I'd wanted to report a bug about the DS port :) 05:33:53 bhaak: you'll get Störenfried status like this :) 05:33:54 by: More like autoexplore stopped by where the hell is it. :) 05:33:55 also, lunch 05:35:28 dpeg: the germans already don't love us anymore (because of the tax issues), also the austrians (because we win gold medals and they don't), so I don't have to care :-D 05:35:34 bhaak, you are reading too much Bildzeitung :) 05:40:30 DCSS homepage links to obsolete SF trackers (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=910) by bhaak 05:40:33 Sourceforge support points to wrong support mechanism (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=909) by bhaak 05:40:39 :) 05:40:39 Nice report, bhaak :) 05:40:39 do I get some in-game achievements if I open enoug bug reports? 05:40:39 second report is.. well, known, as there are both links available 05:40:39 that's why "Mantis Bugtracker" is bold 05:40:40 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:41:15 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:41:15 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS development channel! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Ashenzari source: http://github.com/doy/crawlbot | due is semihere for the next few days. 05:41:34 but the big explanation in the text states the right trackers for BR/FR 05:42:05 "Error 05:42:08 Artifact: This ArtifactType Does Not Allow Anonymous Submissions. Please Login." 05:42:19 lol, nice sourceforge error message :D 05:43:09 BIG? explanation - one line of text with a non-clickable link :-) 05:43:32 "Submitting Bugs and Feature Requests" in at least h2 05:44:03 with 9 sentences and 2 links - that's not so bad :-P 05:44:08 oh, you mean on the hp, not on the sf tracker "Add new" page 05:44:32 but i heard SF is a beast... you can't disable new reports without closing down the tracker completely 05:44:37 and we still need read access to it 05:45:15 for you or for the users? you can hide it for non-project-members (that's what the option says, I haven't tested it :) 05:45:38 not sure that's desired - could be an option 05:46:52 omg.. my XL12 Kobold of Cheibradpit has 27str, 25int & 40dex :-O 05:47:03 napkin, haha 05:47:06 napkin, I gotta try it later :) 05:47:17 good news: 05:47:19 napkin, skip the i in chei and youll get che and brad pit in the same char ;) 05:47:28 you can slow the monster (aa) without waking them :D 05:47:30 !whereis napkin 05:47:31 428. Napkin the Covered (L1 MDFi), quit the game on D:1 on 2010-02-21, with 9 points after 7 turns and 0:00:11. 05:47:37 @whereis napkin 05:47:37 No where information for napkin. 05:47:41 @whereis Napkin 05:47:41 Napkin the Destroyer (L13 DEWz), a worshipper of Vehumet, saved on Lair:1 on 2010-02-22 after 42367 turns. 05:47:42 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:47:48 @whereis Fleurka 05:47:49 Fleurka the Thrower (L12 KoAs), a worshipper of Cheibriados, is currently on D:10 after 23442 turns. 05:47:50 ssshh! 05:48:00 napkin, hows needle usage going? 05:48:08 Napkin: Dunno if there's any built in way to automatically extract the SF data to a csv file or something, but if so you could simply move it to a controlled read-only database... 05:48:28 could use more curare, but fine otherwise - especially helpful against killer bees :D 05:48:39 no branded needles found yet though 05:49:16 I think there is, Twinge - greensnark wrote a script once to part everything to Mantis 05:49:22 SF also provides mantis themselves. Maybe also a migrating path? 05:49:47 but it would have created the user accounts too - without passwords. and the decision was made to do a fresh start. 05:50:06 It might not even be worth migrating the whole thing to mantis - but it would be good to have all the sF data read-accessible 05:50:11 anyways, I guess you can export, yes - I don't believe greensnark included a http grabber 05:51:33 sure, I think someone could easily write a parser and have it displayed on CDO or whereever 05:51:46 dpeg, could you have a look next time you log in to SF? 05:57:41 !coffee 05:57:42 * Henzell hands cbus a cup of café au lait, brewed by Ijyb. 06:04:56 glorious idea! 06:04:57 !coffee 06:04:57 * Henzell hands Napkin a mug of café au lait, brewed by Cerebov. 06:06:08 !tea 06:06:28 hey, I want some tea brewed by crazy yuif 06:06:34 !booze 06:06:58 hmm, another feature request 06:08:13 How about removing the piety the cost from Chebratpit's "Bend Time"? 06:10:20 smells like instawin if you can just spam it every time it looks semi dangerous 06:10:27 err nevermind 06:10:31 boggy mind mmkay 06:11:10 I always thought it was just a passive aura btw 06:15:04 well, i don't know the details 06:15:11 how much do you slow down a monster? 06:15:43 and.. aren't the monsters are still dangerous enough at same speed as your own? 06:16:12 I find it very difficult.. using bend time 3 times -> lost an asterisk again 06:17:17 the success rate of the abilities are quite bad.. how to train it? 06:17:24 train invocations, i mean 06:22:38 more Bend Time! :) 06:23:09 * due hugs dpeg. 06:23:29 it seems so expensive in piety to me :-O 06:23:32 * dpeg falls down 06:23:33 50 items to summarise and that's me up to date with early yesterday 06:23:44 \o/ 06:24:09 due: didn't featuritis slow down a bit? 06:25:46 dpeg: Mostly bug fixes, to be honest. 06:26:15 due: yes, as it should be 06:27:02 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:31:18 Okay, sleep 06:31:30 Keskitalo: You now have SF admin rights. 06:31:36 due: good night 06:33:56 oohh.. Chei didn't support that I drank a potion of slowing :D 06:34:37 please make him see the light :) 06:35:23 dpeg: Thanks! 06:35:47 Fixed the -lSDL_image problem locally.. 06:36:26 I think we'll commit and ask Noonan to review. 06:37:34 Want to try if CDO can still build cross-compiles first? 06:38:42 Yeah, could do that.. how should we proceed? 06:38:51 Good luck! 06:39:09 you commit and I try immediately? 06:39:39 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 06:40:32 Napkin: I have the rltiles makefile open on CDO now - I could make a local commit there? :) 06:40:55 uhm, ja, sure, why not 06:41:19 we can reset to the previous commit if it works and you can commit to the public repository 06:41:34 current aptitudes in log scale: http://sprunge.us/NKMj 06:41:34 deal? :) 06:42:12 Napkin: Sounds good! 06:42:52 uuh - that looks complicated.. at least at first, by 06:43:36 by: looks very, very good 06:44:03 by: could you paste that as-is into the aptitudes wiki? 06:44:05 showing a "-" when a some value is supposed to be good could be intuitive 06:44:19 *un-intuitive 06:44:21 Napkin: this is a separate concern 06:44:31 * Napkin shuts up * 06:44:35 :P 06:44:55 Napkin: ideally, the final system will have something like +++ and -- etc., so that good/bad is clear 06:44:56 :-P 06:45:21 gee.. you and your allergy against numbers! 06:45:23 :-P 06:45:49 Napkin: yes, signs would be switched 06:46:27 Napkin: Okay, the local commit is in. Do I now just run one of the tiles build scripts as usual? 06:47:03 yes, the one whose branch you commited to 06:48:19 meh, errored.. 06:49:37 should I? 06:49:47 maybe I see something? 06:51:05 erm.. that was put badly - sorry 06:51:09 I mean, can I help? 06:52:02 no worries - still trying :) 06:52:15 signs switched: http://sprunge.us/JeBf 06:52:37 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:56:34 Napkin: Yeah, please check it out :) CDO now has the same rltiles makefile than we have locally. We just built ok here, but on CDO, it errors.. 06:57:21 roger 06:57:25 what branch? 06:58:05 got it 06:58:07 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 07:01:21 whats the difference between 29 and 6? 07:01:25 is that good or bad? 07:01:25 you added -lSDL, Keskitalo? 07:01:30 how many percent? 07:01:40 removed -lSDL_image, added it directly to SDLFlags as a path 07:01:50 SDL_LDFlags even 07:01:58 this is what it results to: 07:01:59 x86_64-linux-gnu-g++ tool/tile_colour.o tool/tile.o tool/tile_page.o tool/tile_list_processor.o tool/main.o -o tool/tilegen.elf -lSDL -lpng12 -ldl -lpthread 07:02:09 which ends with: tile.cc:(.text+0x830): undefined reference to `IMG_Load' 07:02:45 try adding the -lSDL_image back 07:02:51 no, wait 07:04:22 -lSDL_image doesn't work here.. 07:04:48 your goal is to have -lSDL_image added? 07:04:58 the goal is for the thingy to work ;D 07:05:12 or have ../contrib/install/lib/libSDL_image.a added? 07:05:28 The commit removed -lSDL_image and added ../contrib/install/lib/libSDL_image.a 07:05:38 Which makes it work here locally (Windows & msysgit) :) 07:06:54 ok, I see 07:08:34 the problem is on a cross-compile you can't use the libraries created in contrib 07:08:50 since they are windows - and you are creating a native binary here 07:10:44 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:11:10 will fix, just give me a second 07:12:48 Napkin: Great! :) 07:16:38 ok, have a look (git log -p -1) at the commit - i "amend"ed the change 07:17:03 probably not too nice - but since SDL_image comes without pkg-config - not sure what else to do 07:17:51 03Enne * r01979264084e 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/Makefile: Revert removal of PNG target dependencies. 07:18:02 03Enne * ra9568c035823 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/Makefile: Use correct targets in rltiles/tool/*.d files. 07:18:06 Keskitalo 07:23:53 felirx - poke Eino from me, will you? ;> 07:24:02 here :) 07:24:04 he's busy compiling! 07:24:11 :) 07:25:39 I didn't look at all at the ||s before. :) That looks reasonable to me - did it compile ok on CDO? I assume so :) 07:25:55 yes, it did 07:26:08 I'll try it on the other local clone I have.. still working on the do_layout 07:26:10 so.. if pkg-config reports that SDL is installed, it'll add -lSDL_image 07:26:20 otherwise it'll take the libraries from contrib 07:26:48 <3 unix/windows library depedency mess 07:27:38 for cross-compiling? great pleasure, indeed :) 07:27:56 even just a multiplat project is annoying :) 07:28:15 you can imagine how I chewed on my table getting it to work for the first time :D 07:28:49 you compile everything to run in windows.. and.. wtf? one of the million makefiles needs to create a native/linux binary and run it? :D 07:29:46 I cheated on my personal project though. Just made the project file for msvc to work and dumped the unix maxefile mess to the other developer :D 07:34:44 Napkin: Local compile is fine! :) 07:35:13 Oh wait.. 07:36:00 Well, it hadn't compiled the full compile yet (I looked at the wrong window), but it did get through the tilegen part :) 07:42:03 We're looking at scaling down the graphics when you play in low resolutions. 07:44:35 Currently, it scales down tile size dynamically, and chooses between 4 different font size sets.. 07:45:26 I wonder if we should decide on a minimum supported resolution, make sure it works, and make sure everything above it works. 07:46:17 Napkin: (the local compile works fine!) 07:47:43 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:49:12 oh, that sounds nice :) 07:50:04 should we define some sort of absolute minimum resolution it should work on or try to make it work on any resolution imaginable? 07:51:50 static int _screen_sizes has 800*480 as the lowest mentioned resolution. Enne and/or jpeg would probably know if that's meant to be the lowest supported one. :) 08:15:46 -!- scarf has joined ##crawl-dev 08:19:25 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:30:06 Napkin: Are you using sdl-config to detect what libs are needed? 08:31:27 Or is it only with SDL_image? 08:32:04 the makefile is using pkg-config 08:38:14 but.. that neither will help 08:38:30 as it only reports the main library.. not the addon libs 08:45:48 yeah 08:45:59 the addon libs should only require one .a to be linked... 08:46:14 I've always had a hard time with SDL addons though. 08:47:42 03by * r5732cbd121d1 10/crawl-ref/source/skills2.cc: Convert skill aptitudes to logarithmic scale. 08:47:45 03by * rf6506bc9f69b 10/crawl-ref/source/skills2.cc: Convert to old-style aptitude in species_skills(). 08:47:51 03by * rd7eac97dbd48 10/crawl-ref/source/util/gen-apt.pl: Adapt gen-apt.pl to new aptitudes. 08:47:55 by: wow. 08:48:59 it's a pretty small change, unlikely to conflict with 0.6 work 08:49:13 but a big step for the world 08:49:22 now the aptitudes need to be rounded to multiples of 10 08:49:39 by: it's the table from sprunge? 08:49:48 ixtli: depends if you want them to be dynamically linked or not 08:49:50 skills2.cc 08:50:10 it now has values in the range -50..50, which should become -5..5 08:50:33 by: yes, exactly 08:50:49 by: should I simply do it? 08:50:56 that'd be great 08:50:57 or will there be discussion etc.? 08:51:17 okay, I'll err in favour of the unloved species and against the strong ones 08:51:20 I think if you just do it it's fine 08:51:40 will do later 08:51:48 got to modify an article first 08:51:51 sure 08:52:18 once they're all multiples of 10, I'll do the move to -5..5 08:53:46 by: ah, one more thing: did you already revert the sign? 08:54:56 yes, -5 is bad now 08:55:14 by: and the Exp modifier is not included? 08:55:24 yes, not so far 08:55:40 should do that one separately, later 08:56:06 yes; currently it's at 100,110,120,...,160 08:56:25 yes, 6 values would suffice, but here we will want a linear scale 08:56:44 I think 09:01:13 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:05:24 -!- mr0t has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:31 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:59 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 09:18:39 uh so my girlfriend has played 12 total games and just ran a 13409 point halfling assassin 09:18:48 sigh 09:18:49 http://pastebin.com/xCRPj8Fm 09:20:34 nerf! 09:20:38 lol 09:20:41 must be 09:20:43 this is .5.2 09:25:18 how can a mummy lose maxhp? 09:25:44 ixtli: whe must be pretty good :) 09:26:14 I dunno if it was a fluke. I was advising her, but I didn't play the game. I was editing tilesdl.cc the whole time 09:35:20 by: being mutated 09:35:51 ah, thanks 09:37:19 Fishy, unavoidable D:1 death (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=911) by Core Xii 09:38:34 eh. 09:38:57 it's like an unavoidable death on D:1 is anything.. well... special. 09:40:23 hmm, in NetHack you can avoid the gnomes with the wands of death quite easily if you know what you're doing 09:40:33 it's the poisoned spiked pit traps that are the /unfair/ deaths, and you don't get them on D:1 09:40:40 well 09:40:54 in nethack you can do that mostly because of the limited targeting abilities 09:41:35 I don't mind making D:1 a safer place... but I am not sure players have the same notion of "safe". 09:41:47 but in any case, yeah, i really don't think we need yet more special cases for d:1 09:41:51 there are plenty as it is 09:42:06 crawl needs a black hole, so explosive darts fly along the bent spacetime 09:42:16 ok, a rare unavoidable death occurs on D:1. I don't think it's a bug or anything. 09:42:23 right 09:42:24 crawl's all about being random, anyway 09:42:33 My hope is that if the death is *not* rare enough, we'll notice. 09:43:03 what about special treatment for a poor sucker who dies on D:1? you know, counseling or at least a YAFM :) 09:43:34 anyone who dies a stupid death on D:1 should have their dump file posted on usenet, automatically 09:43:49 doy: but what about the bug? Just close? 09:43:53 yeah 09:43:55 *bug report 09:44:28 I could imagine making D:1 completely ego and randart free, but you didn't hear that from me. 09:44:37 "Severity: major" is also nice :) 09:44:40 if we're going to do that 09:44:45 why not just cut out d:1 entirely 09:44:49 I could imagine making d:1 exploding dart free but egos should stay 09:45:04 i mean... there's a point where it just becomes wandering around picking up items 09:45:13 well, this would also remove the possibility to find good stuff on D:1 :) 09:45:13 and that's not really useful or entertaining 09:45:14 if you see a kobold with a runed short sword you should run unless you want to gamble 09:45:14 I don't see why make d:1 special for anything but bones, but I don't mind an occasional unavoidable death, either 09:45:26 syllogism: that is true 09:45:30 bhaak: I take it that there's no way to get a "do not pass go" situation in Crawl? 09:45:42 (in NetHack, it's the message you get for dying on turn 1, which is possible) 09:45:56 nope 09:46:09 you could kill yourself 09:46:15 dpeg: that's turn 2, in NetHack 09:46:17 well, you can start a berkserker and abandon trog 09:46:21 you need to be quite creative to die the turn before 09:46:25 an artificer might be able 09:46:28 odds are that will instakill you 09:46:33 in crawl you can dying on turn 0 09:46:41 heh 09:46:47 you could add a random message for turn 2: "In NetHack, you could have died by now!" 09:47:00 in nethack, you have to spawn on top of an intelligent artifact, with autopickup turned on 09:47:02 syllogism: how? 09:47:07 !lg * turn=0 ktyp!=leaving 09:47:18 86115. alex404 the Chucker (L1 SEHu), quit the game on D:1 on 2010-02-23, with 20 points after 0 turns and 0:00:17. 09:47:18 the typical nethack turn-0 death, apart from falling off a horse which is completely the player's fault, is having autopickup for weapons on by default in your RC and spawn right on top of an artefact 09:47:20 you abandon a god 09:47:24 !lg * turn=0 ktyp!=leaving ktyp!=quitting 09:47:26 191. Moose the Skirmisher (L1 DSCK), the fury of Makhleb on D:1 on 2010-01-13, with 34 points after 0 turns and 0:00:14. 09:47:48 nice 09:48:06 die* 09:49:33 03by * r458b65ca06bc 10/crawl-ref/source/abl-show.cc: Fix mummy self-restoration being disabled when just rotted. 09:52:47 thanks for the replies to the BR 09:55:33 oops, resolved the wrong bug 09:55:54 was wondering about that 09:55:54 (: 09:56:04 just change that one to 'no change required' 09:57:30 what's the story behind http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=901 (taking the upstairs on D:1 with Death's Door active takes you to D:0)? 09:59:01 ktyp_winning ktyp_leaving 09:59:15 as in kill type 09:59:22 oh, and they count as kills, so death's door blocked them? 09:59:27 yes 09:59:30 somehow I assumed it only blocked hp damage 09:59:54 ktyp_water was specifically excluded so you could still drown 09:59:58 but those were overlooked 10:01:41 -!- by has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:05:08 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:13 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:22:16 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 10:25:48 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:26:10 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:16 haha core xii 10:28:30 yup 10:28:37 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:29:10 -!- rax has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:29:58 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:20 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:22 and not being on ##crawl means i don't have to hear the whines about my abuse of authority 10:39:25 (: 10:39:38 your abuse of authority? 10:39:52 http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=911 10:39:57 ah 10:40:04 Is authority an abusable substance 10:40:18 We need a War on Authority 10:41:18 Core Xii got exploded, heh 10:41:46 -!- murphy_slaw__ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:55 I've run into a few exploding darts kobolds, but I survived :P 10:42:21 The explosion is far more impressive than the actual damage it does 10:42:27 yeah 10:42:45 well it does something like 2d5 extra 10:42:59 which is quite a lot 10:43:09 only really dangerous to xl1 characters 10:43:11 Is this about your Death's Dooring DE on D:1 :P 10:43:21 considering kobolds don't spawn with more than like 1 or 2 of them 10:43:41 And it's pretty rare 10:44:11 D:1 is already the most boring place :) 10:44:26 I don't really mind but you can reasonably argue for not generating them on d1 10:44:29 Nothing in starting LOS, no moderate OOD 10:44:31 doy: excellent reply! 10:44:35 2d5 + dart hit damage 10:44:40 well, you can reasonably argue for not generating much of anything on d:1 10:44:45 no 10:44:47 you can't :P 10:44:52 -!- murphy_slaw_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:44:59 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:09 i really don't see why people get so worked up about d:1 deaths 10:45:11 Hey, I once ran into a giant gecko that killed me, let's fix that too :P 10:45:23 Can't outrun geckos, they're unfair :P 10:45:25 giant geckos dont instakill :P 10:45:39 syllogism: worms do d: 10:45:40 Oh, is this about instakills? :P 10:45:54 We will do something about it if those deaths come up in frightening proportions. 10:45:59 A single instance is not enough. 10:46:15 Yeah, someone hits a 1 in 10000 case and immediately wails on the tracker :P 10:46:20 exactly 10:46:25 i've survived D:1 explosive darts 10:46:30 that means there should be more of them! 10:46:40 I've survived them too :P 10:46:49 Granted, I was playing ogres 10:46:52 However! 10:47:02 That was incidental to my superior playing skill! 10:47:09 :P 10:47:10 And the fact that usually the kobold had like 2 darts :P 10:47:24 well the average hit damage is 8, doesn't take much variance to kill some character at max hp :P 10:47:30 and if they get two... :P 10:47:51 I remember the first time I met one I was leaning on keys and was next to the kobold with 3 hp :P 10:48:00 And I had to hit ^P to see that oh, he was using exploding darts :P 10:48:00 However, I simultaneously found two kobolds with them and survived 10:48:15 whenever I die I'm leaning on keys :P 10:48:26 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:49:28 I think it's good we get those reports. As long as we close them quickly. 10:50:39 woah.. lindworm in L7 :-O 10:50:45 hey greensnark :) 10:50:46 Ooh! 10:50:50 !coffee 10:50:50 * Henzell hands greensnark a cup of black coffee, brewed by Sigmund. 10:50:55 lol 10:51:50 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:53:46 I lost a 16some DsWZ by accidentally hammering left and try to melee a hydra ~6 turns in row or somesuch :* 10:54:25 surviving exp dart in d1 is all about class :( 10:54:30 or race 10:54:37 Or XL :P 10:55:14 Level up quick by diving to D:2 for the better quality monsters! 10:55:24 And then you can come back up safely for the D:1 kobolds with their exploding darts :P 10:55:31 This is a good sound system 10:55:36 That I can see no problems with! 10:55:48 I just spammal all the d1 kobolds down ;) 10:55:56 I believe dpeg does this 10:56:07 greensnark: startsum for an entry vault with an escape hatch in 10:56:17 Hehe 10:56:32 silliest entry vault I've seen is one 2 tiles wide, with nothig but stairs up and a hatch down 10:57:38 is that one actually in trunk? 10:57:46 it sounds mean forcing people to start on D:2 10:58:07 ooh, we should so have a small chance for Xom players to start in an entry vault which is just stairs up, hatch down 10:58:13 felirx: there's a hidden door on that one 10:58:16 go down, land in a vault which is just stairs up, stairs down 10:58:19 go down, etc... 10:58:41 doy: ugh, spoiler info! 10:58:57 not really 10:59:01 Hidden doors are spoilers now? :P 10:59:06 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 10:59:08 "this level is disconnected, maybe i should search the walls!" 10:59:13 that's not spoiler info d: 10:59:20 recognisable vaults which always have them are 10:59:30 vaults are spoilers now? 10:59:31 d: 10:59:35 doy: the number of people who can't get through that secret-door temple vault implies otherwise 10:59:42 Any gameplay pattern that can be remembered to improve your play is a spoiler :P 10:59:58 doy: well, you could imagine a vault spoiler; but it wouldn't be problematic unless it actually gave some advantage 11:00:00 If you keep whining, I'll add an oklob to that entry vault. 11:00:05 Behind glass. 11:00:09 :) oklobs 11:00:12 Which breaks after ten turns. 11:00:15 have mercy! 11:00:17 :P 11:00:24 dpeg: nah, just put the secret door going into the oklob chamber 11:00:49 Have to be careful with D:1 oklobs. syllogism would just use it to level up :) 11:01:12 All those cutesy vaults with demons on lava islands have been used to do just that :P 11:01:27 yeah(: 11:01:59 yep, mostly people just cast Mephitic at them 11:02:13 I was actually thinking about why Mephitic is so good and Sigmund has so many kills 11:02:18 and concluded that it was because confusion was overpowered 11:02:28 both for player use, and for monster use 11:02:34 These are different issues. 11:02:57 hmm, really? 11:03:00 yes 11:03:08 what confusion effectively does is that it more or less prevents you acting coherently 11:03:15 MC being too strong does not mean that Sigmund is too strong. 11:03:16 Sigmund has so many kills because players go "LOL, kill everything!!11!" 11:03:28 dpeg: no, agreed 11:03:39 we should nerf player haste and player MC 11:03:42 I think he's about right, but he's strong just because of the one ability 11:03:53 scarf: no, that is not true 11:03:56 player ghosts with mephitic are much more dangerous than ones without, for instance 11:04:16 I got an old ghost of mine that did nothing but spam mephit every 2 turns 11:04:20 @?? Sigmund 11:04:20 Sigmund (08@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 3 | Health: 30 | AC/EV: 0/11 | Damage: 5 | Flags: spellcaster | Res: 06magic(12) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 104 | Sp: throw flame, confuse, invisibility, magic dart. 11:04:40 he has so many kills because of invisibilty and confuse! 11:04:47 an English question: would you say something is/looks/behaves "cyclically" or "cyclicly"? 11:04:52 all invis does is gives him the free turn 11:04:53 dpeg: the first 11:05:00 thanks 11:05:02 i think invis is far more dangerous than confuse 11:05:08 you can cure confusion 11:05:11 because he isn't bat-like, or anything like that, so once he hits you you know where he is 11:05:12 can't make him visible again 11:05:13 (: 11:05:17 corona! 11:05:20 You are forgetting the scythe, my friend. 11:05:28 * dpeg unwraps his new scythe. 11:05:33 scarf: invis is still a pretty decent boost to his to-hit, and penalty to yours 11:05:35 and no, you can't cure confusion because he normally turns up so early that you haven't got a healing potion yet, or used your only one IDing it 11:05:36 Sigmund is a delicious little package of awesomeness 11:05:41 :) 11:05:42 scarf: that's just not true 11:05:44 doy: oh, it has gameplay effects beyond hiding? 11:05:45 hehe 11:05:48 scarf: yes 11:06:01 gah, this is worse than NetHack 11:06:08 ??invisibility 11:06:08 invisibility[1/6]: If you are invisible, monsters won't shoot ranged attacks at you unless they can see you, or can guess where you are. Monsters with {sense invisible} still have to guess your location, but will only fire if they guess right; others get a random fuzz to their aiming point, which might be inaccurate in the first place. 11:06:13 bhaak: I've got a player for you! 11:06:15 ??invisibility[2] 11:06:15 invisibility[2/6]: Monsters can guess your position when you are invisible if they knew your position before and you are still within two spaces, if you are in water, or if they are adjacent to you and make a roll based on their intelligence (usually 1 chance in 3; slightly higher if they are smarter.) 11:06:18 ??invisibility[3] 11:06:18 invisibility[3/6]: Beams shot at you by monsters who can't see you (even if they can sense you) have their hit chance cut in half. Monsters trying to melee you without see invisible and who have correctly guessed your location have their hit chance reduced by 35%. 11:06:21 ??invisibility[4] 11:06:22 invisibility[4/6]: If you are invisible, and don't have see invisible, you receive -5 to hit (same as amulet of inaccuracy). If you are attacking a monster you cannot see, you receive -6 to hit. (These stack, of course.) 11:06:26 there we go 11:06:42 ??invisibility[5] 11:06:42 invisibility[5/6]: Fleeing monsters always know which way is away from you whether they can sense you or not. 11:06:45 bhaak, this is scarf, ardent new player of NH variants. 11:06:45 ??invisibility[6] 11:06:45 invisibility[6/6]: While invisible, you can always stab a monster who cannot see you at least as well as a confused or fleeing monster-- your stab chance is slightly better if the monster cannot sense invisible. 11:06:46 scarf, this is bhaak, developer of the main NH variant. 11:06:56 it feels so un-Crawl-like, it's almost spoiler info that you shouldn't become invisible while you don't have see invis 11:06:59 dpeg: I know bhaak already 11:07:10 But have you ever been formally introduced? 11:07:12 although lorimer may get annoyed at your assessment of NH variant authorship there 11:07:14 dpeg: I don't think so 11:07:27 to be fair, to-hit isn't very relevant 11:07:34 agreed 11:07:34 and you generally use it to escape 11:07:43 Or stabbing 11:07:59 yes, fleeing or stealth boost for attack 11:08:13 oh, hmm, one of the more consistent bits of feedback I'm getting from people I introduce to Crawl is that they're confused about which + for the weapon is attack, and which is damage 11:08:30 also, they seem to be consistently incapable of finding a list of controls despite it being ridiculously obvious, although I'm not sure that's your fault at all 11:08:39 that information is on the screen when you examine the weapon 11:08:45 hey, I watched WoW players -- they can tell a gazillion numbers apart! 11:09:04 doy: I don't think I've seen them do that either, probably due to not having read the controls list 11:09:21 hmmm, or maybe it isn't 11:09:37 doy: don't think so 11:09:39 heh, I know someone who's won despite not knowing many of the commands 11:09:48 :) 11:09:50 the inventory screen does say "Press item letter to examine" right at the top 11:09:57 not sure how much more clear we can get 11:09:58 scarf: this is not exactly like Nethack :) 11:10:08 doy: I'm one of the people who keeps missing all the "press ? for help" messages 11:10:24 I didn't find out about X? for ages despite the message; I think my eyes just never focused on it 11:10:41 we should make it red and flashing 11:10:43 dpeg: most NetHack players have probably not used #turn once ever 11:10:58 admittedly, there's no reason to, it's a stupid ability 11:11:18 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:11:57 hmm, I suppose the difference between Crawl and NetHack is that when Crawl's unclear about something, it's generally a bug 11:12:03 whereas with NetHack it's generally deliberate 11:12:07 and merely a misfeature 11:13:14 btw, I used restore ability this game! *woot* best potion ever 11:13:27 gah, stop ruining our examples! 11:13:50 * lorimer whops dpeg in the shins 11:13:52 Bad dog 11:14:33 Hey, it's a remirol 11:14:38 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 11:14:47 hmm, some time I should write an article about NetHack's philosophy, along much the same lines as the one about Crawl 11:14:54 bhaak talks in ##crawl-dev, lorimer doesn't, therefore bhaak is more active! 11:14:54 quelqu'un m'a beepé! 11:15:00 I don't agree with much or all of it, but I'm beginning to get a pretty good idea of what it is 11:15:03 NH philosophy: "LOL Elbereth" 11:15:11 well, bhaak _is_ more active than me right now. but. :) 11:15:20 greensnark: I'd argue that much of NetHack is a mistake, rather than deliberate 11:15:33 there have clearly been attempts to balance Elbereth, they're just utterly ineffectual 11:15:55 much of NetHack makes more sense when viewed with the assumptions that the devteam have no idea how to balance anything 11:16:14 scarf: you don't say? :P 11:16:25 lorimer: I know it's obvious to you; it might be less obvious to people who don't play it 11:16:30 :) 11:16:35 i know, i'm just amused 11:16:50 IMO, Elbereth and SDSM are signs of incompetence rather than malice 11:17:02 I think the team's too large and their decision making revolves around consensus :P 11:17:05 It's a common trap 11:17:18 Have a large team and do nothing if anyone disagrees loudly 11:17:20 too secretive, too 11:17:24 And you can't get jack done :P 11:17:58 also, even after seven years people are finding new bugs, we found one earlier today (although we don't know what caused it) 11:18:14 it was a good one too; Eladar suddenly died for no reason at all, luckily he had a "oLS on 11:18:56 scarf: I don't think there's much philosophy to speak of, for NH. 11:19:22 apart from the obvious "never let gameplay balance get in the way of a bad pun", the biggest one seems to be "the player should have some way to do anything" 11:19:32 completly counter to Crawl's philosophy, but interesting in its own right 11:19:51 scarf: if there was something like a NH philosophy, I'd say it's "every game is winnable". 11:20:07 hmm, yes, that too; the game goes a long way towards making every death feel like it's your fault 11:20:08 which closes the circle to "LOL Elbereth" 11:20:13 apart from the stupid GWTWOD thing 11:20:13 "Every game is winnable, because, lol, Elbereth" 11:20:25 greensnark: try it some time, it doesn't work by itself 11:20:29 despite being so overpowered 11:20:38 scarf: I've played NH, thanks :P 11:20:47 yep, I know 11:21:07 And I'm not claiming it gives 100% winnability :P 11:21:21 greensnark: but that's only because the devteam sucks 11:21:23 But it is mega lame :) 11:21:41 I'm pretty sure I know what the devteam's reasoning was there, although I might be wrong 11:21:45 I know Spork tackles Elbereth, does UnNetHack do something there? 11:21:53 it's "a 72% chance of saving yourself in an emergency is not unbalanced" 11:22:05 lorimer will burst out laughing at this point 11:22:05 scarf: the point is that someone who willingly adds Elbereth without understanding the repercussions, and then wondering when players explain them to him, loses all credentials. 11:22:49 well, for years it was treated as a sacred spoiler thing that must never be mentioned anywhere, and then all of a sudden it was added to the Guidebook 11:23:24 I think probably that the typical use, of writing it 10 times in a row at the first sign of trouble, was something that the devteam never even considered 11:23:25 03j-p-e-g * r8220285b6461 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Add Porkchop's alligator tiles, slightly tweaked. 11:23:26 03j-p-e-g * ra23b086b049b 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Move special minivault dungeon features into subfolder dngn/vaults. 11:23:29 03j-p-e-g * r32f9d486798e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (11 files in 4 dirs): Add tile for the Tukima's wizlab's other "strange machine". 11:23:31 03j-p-e-g * r6c017082c63f 10/crawl-ref/source/tilepick.cc: Tiles: Extend plant stash brand to stationary monsters in general. 11:23:34 03j-p-e-g * rea4b50b300a3 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (11 files in 2 dirs): Add more variant tiles for Makhleb's blazing altar. 11:23:46 ooh, more commits 11:23:55 Alligator tiles 11:24:03 Can I have an alligator sandwich? 11:24:04 yay, the Shoals are complete 11:24:06 And make it snappy 11:24:34 !send greensnark alligator sandwich 11:24:34 Sending alligator sandwich to greensnark. 11:24:45 !coffee 11:24:45 * Henzell hands cbus a cup of black coffee, brewed by Ijyb. 11:25:10 hmm, I'm not sure if I want uniques brewing my drinks 11:25:16 given what they're likely to put in them 11:25:47 Drink up!! 11:25:48 what's the file with welcoming messages of the gods again? 11:27:14 main.cc - nevermind :) 11:27:35 clearly the correct place for that :D 11:28:15 The guiding principle of Crawl programming was: "When in doubt, add it to acr.cc" 11:28:35 and when in doubt, name your variable as mystically as possible 11:28:38 They actually had to rename the file to get everyone to break the habit :P 11:28:39 I can never find the messages :P 11:28:47 Kiku needs a cooler message! 11:29:30 Some variable names were just awesome 11:29:32 Napkin: patch! 11:29:57 oh.. from someone creative, exactly ;) 11:30:00 The old dungeon builder used a variable called "gluggy" to store map orientation 11:30:09 I love the tile variable names 11:30:11 I still do not understand how "gluggy" is relevant to map orientation 11:30:24 ox sx ex mx dx at least 11:30:28 http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=112 11:30:28 scarf: but isn't there some odd way to engrave 10xElbereth in the optimal fashion? That's NH at its best, to me :) 11:30:29 !!! 11:30:40 (re: welcome messages) 11:30:41 dpeg: ooh, yes 11:30:45 you engrave it 9 letters at a time 11:30:46 felirx: ox is obviously a hooved ungulate 11:30:54 so ElberethE, lbrethEl, brethElb, and so on 11:31:04 dx implicates we're derivating something somewhere I think 11:31:04 I think, at least 11:31:13 scarf: this is so incredibly fucked up :) 11:31:21 also, there are some arguments for inscribing the L in uppercase, but that's still an unclear issue 11:31:37 And "ex" is for "This is my 'ex'-coordinate, the one I broke up with when she starting meeting up with that tangent." 11:31:48 "Research about ideal elberething is still ongoing, please hold your breath." 11:32:08 dpeg: the community at large still can't agree on +2 vs. +3 for wishes 11:32:16 * scarf sourcedives that engrave thing 11:32:27 Can the community at large agree that pudding farming is bad :P 11:32:32 NEVER! 11:32:44 It is a feature! 11:33:00 greensnark: I think we treat it like some crawl devs used to treat mummies 11:33:02 The community at large apparently thinks Elbereth is balanced too, according to someone who hangs out on #nethack 11:33:11 good link, MarvinPA :) 11:33:32 i'm not certain if they're much good, i think the kiku one is decent at least though 11:33:38 better than "Welcome..." :P 11:33:53 Those messages are shown on the knowledge bot website - and I just added Jiyva 11:33:57 agreed 11:34:14 and i prefer my jiyva one :P 11:34:22 "slime for the slime god" is... weird 11:34:25 "Jelly Power?!" 11:35:58 greensnark: you hang out in #nethack? No fun, no life, no family? 11:36:07 No I don't 11:36:11 Well, not usually 11:36:29 I'm just reporting what someone on ##crawl-offtopic reported as general #nethack wisdom :P 11:36:51 scarf: I think I just agree more with dpeg's opinions about nh and that makes the plaything of dpeg :-) 11:37:00 Hey bhaak is back 11:37:25 With extra Heizölrückstoß 11:37:27 greensnark: Elbereth is only slightly nerfed ATM, I think only that all the uniques don't respect it is changed 11:37:31 haha, they actually had to put in a special case for a player naming themselves "Elbereth", or naming an item "Elbereth" and dying by kicking it, so that the resulting gravestone wouldn't scare the player's ghost 11:37:39 but yes, 9 at a time is optimal, just checked the source 11:38:05 Engraving Elbereth could produce a Heizölrückstoß 11:38:19 I give this suggestion free of charge for the benefit of humanity 11:38:35 greensnark, I am afraid you have no clue what a Heizölrückstoß is and why it is so sexy. 11:38:51 non german players are usually allergic to umlauts and esszetts 11:38:54 You need to be German to grok its true meaning, I suspect :P 11:38:55 bhaak probably knows, being German himself 11:39:01 he's not! 11:39:05 also, is that really how you spell "esszett"? 11:39:06 scarf: close, but no cigar 11:39:08 Don't call him German 11:39:13 bhaak: austrian? 11:39:19 scarf: close, but no cigar 11:39:21 ok 11:39:25 As he will proudly point out, he steals taxes from Germans, and medals from Austrians. 11:39:27 ah 11:39:32 Also, bhaak has no ß. 11:39:35 These not-Germans are crazy 11:40:05 interesting, =oPR is normal coloured for ghouls 11:41:19 speaking of awesome variable naming, one codebase i worked on at one point used 'larry' as the name for the angle unit 11:41:30 and so the codebase was sprinkled with defines for things like HALF_LARRY 11:41:32 dpeg's lying of courße 11:41:47 how do you translate larrys to quaternions? 11:42:03 that's easy: larry, lorry, lurry 11:42:21 bhaak: do snakes hißßß in German? 11:42:27 (256 larrys in a circle) 11:42:50 -!- Spads has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:43:25 scarf: no, they do *zisch* (sch being the other genuine german phonem, but the one that didn't get its own character) 11:43:50 German onomatopoeia > British onomatopoeia 11:45:10 bhaak: what about sp, st, äu, ei, ä, ö, ü -- these are not genuine? 11:45:36 Of course Russian has four or so zischlaute. 11:46:08 sh, ch, tch are their lackluster transcriptions 11:46:16 bhaak: oh, and "ch", of course, twice 11:46:27 yeah, \o/ my first bug got assigned. More work for dpeg 11:46:38 Ohdear, we have competitors filing bugs 11:46:45 the umlauts got their own characters (well, half characters) 11:47:07 Last time I tried to get a bug to the NH devteam, they didn't even understand what I was talking about. 11:47:30 dpeg: what were you talking about? many of us care about NH bugs, even if the devteam doesn't 11:47:32 sp like in sp_lendid? st like in fir_st? (st as sch-t is a different issue and just sch + something else :) 11:47:50 * bhaak AFK 11:48:59 bhaak: Stuhl, stinken 11:49:04 ah, Isee 11:49:22 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:50:02 scarf: I asked (innocently and honestly) if it wasn't a bug that you could alchemise n potions and 1 potion to get n potions. For years, I thought that alchemy should be 1 and 1, and always did it like this. When I found out, I was shocked. The lady who got my mail did not see any concerns. "Works as intended!" :) 11:50:28 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:31 Hey, that's perfectly fine 11:50:34 So I meant design bug rather than code bug. But they wouldn't understand the former. 11:50:43 dpeg: oh, I see what you mean; the current behaviour is obviously deliberate (healing + sickness = sickness has no reason for existing otherwise) 11:50:52 the nethack developers think in terms of stacks rather than of items, I think 11:50:59 to the extent that the user has control over whether items stack or not 11:51:04 scarf: yes. But it makes alchemy more overpowered than need be. 11:51:06 Slash'EM was even more hilarious 11:51:22 I remember accumulating upwards of 50 potions of full healing without even trying 11:51:53 There's a little level called the guild of disgruntled adventurers, each of whom is overloaded with disgusting amounts of loot 11:51:55 dpeg: I imagine nobody would use it if not for the powering, there; it seems to be designed as a way for people to stock up on full healing / sickness 11:52:04 And the major challenge of the level is to retrieve the loot without them wasting too much of it :P 11:52:05 greensnark: like I always say, the biggest chunk about design I learned from NH. Simple way to get a good roguelike: avoid all their mistakes. 11:52:17 the overwhelmingly common use for potions is blanking for holy water; all potions but acid can do that 11:52:37 so, you have to be able to do something good and impressive with a potion to make it more useful to blank than use 11:52:44 scarf: the whole game is so freaking broken :) 11:52:48 yep 11:53:01 a better question is why you can dip a stack of ordinary water into holy water to bless it 11:53:12 that is symmetrical with everything else, but the implications are rather obvious 11:53:51 a lot of nethack's issues stem from people being too familiar/close to the implementation details 11:54:12 dpeg: anyway, I can sort-of see why a NetHack developer would get confused at a request to make something slightly broken less broken, when it would make other strategies more broken by removing their competitors 11:54:18 things aren't designed and then coded, people just start coding things, and just leave things in the most direct coding path, regardless of the implications 11:54:35 doy: the fix they claimed they used for my leash bug is pretty good evidence of that 11:55:09 it leads to whether cursed-leashed pets follow you on level teleport being sensitive to the details of the surrounding terrain for no apparent reason 11:55:19 and the reason is heavily tied in with the way it's coded 11:55:37 umm, I mean uncursed-leashed 11:56:45 okay, time to round aptitudes 11:56:51 MD will only go down, of course 11:57:07 is down good or bad with the new system? 11:57:16 here, down = bad 12:00:15 poor mountain dwarves :( 12:03:53 st_: do you also have pity with Americans? 12:06:07 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:06:42 dpeg: Stll strongly in favor of mroe than 7 tiers! 11 tiers can very easily be displayed in 3 characters like so (or similar examples): --- _-- -- _- - ___ + +_ ++ ++_ +++ =) 12:07:09 ouch 12:08:47 I was thinking of . - -- --- !-- !!- 12:09:02 but perhaps we will be content with -5...+5 :) 12:09:19 i think -5...+5 is fine 12:09:23 yes 12:09:26 + +½ ++ ++½ +++ 12:09:57 i think i was even fine with -4...+4 12:10:04 Hehe, ½, didn't even think about non-standard characters. There's a couple options, but the concept is the same 12:10:21 just -3...+3 was a bit limiting 12:10:56 well, if you want a data point, NetHack has just 4 levels (restricted, basic, skilled, expert), except for martial arts where it has 6 for some unknown reason 12:11:15 I'm not sure which direction this is an argument in, though 12:12:46 Those are skill levels 12:12:50 As opposed to aptitudes 12:13:04 greensnark: they're sort-of apts too, because different classes get capped at different levels 12:13:18 the levels themselves are unskilled, basic, skilled, expert, which is almost but not quite the same 12:13:20 Yes, but the coupling makes it a confusing example 12:13:31 greensnark: when are NetHack examples ever /not/ confusing? 12:13:34 Crawl skills are presumably staying 27-leveled 12:13:35 scarf: that's not the same thing at all though 12:13:47 because you can't gain skills slower or faster in nethack 12:14:05 doy: it has almost the same effect on your character, though 12:14:10 nope 12:14:17 because it affects how high you can train the skills and whether you'll want to go into them 12:14:18 not even close 12:15:06 scarf: I bet you can win a NH character easily without skilling. 12:15:30 scarf: if you do your article on NH philosophy (which some believe doesn't exist), are you gonna mentioning conducts? 12:15:44 dpeg: not easiliy, but yes, pacifist 12:15:46 dpeg: good point, although you'd have to rely on broken strategies more 12:15:50 conducts are a pretty essential aspect of nethack philosophy 12:15:53 bhaak: yes 12:16:07 I think they're a natural consequence of the philosophy 12:16:11 "it's not unbalanced, if you don't like it then don't use it!" 12:16:18 bhaak, scarf: simply bashing monsters with a good weapon in a restricted skill won't do? 12:16:25 if a game's designed such that you can do more or less anything, people will try 12:16:31 doy: yes, I hate that so much :) 12:16:45 doy: Hah. While it is true that single-player balance is a lot more flexible than multiplayer balance, that's still an awful way to look at it! 12:16:54 dpeg: it will do, but only because the correlation between luck and hit chance is stupidly broken 12:16:56 doy: and the worst part of it that sometimes I bit my lips saying the same. For example if someone complains about labyrinths. 12:17:07 in Spork, I'd be very leery of trying that trick, because lorimer fixed that particular issue 12:17:30 Well, that is because lorimer develops the leading NH fork. 12:17:54 dpeg: the other leading NH fork has that patch, too :) 12:17:57 the difference from having a skill restricted is definitely noticeable, though 12:18:09 but be weary of being crowned 12:18:34 ok, the difference between skilled/expert is irrelevant for anything but daggers, but basic/restricted is a big difference 12:18:48 and basic/skilled is /sometimes/ a difference, especially for casters 12:19:00 dpeg: covering your tracks, i see ;) 12:19:25 in fact, with skilled vs. expert not mattering, NetHack effectively only has three apt levels 12:19:30 i wonder how feasible it would be to implement achievements for crawl for 0.7 12:19:45 doy: a lot of work. Should be left to outside patchers :) 12:19:46 doy: #nethack were talking about that earlier today 12:19:50 it may be a bad idea in either 12:20:01 scarf: it can be done very well 12:20:05 bad idea why? 12:20:11 providing both long term and short term stimulus 12:20:16 dpeg: yes 12:20:20 It doesn't have to be left to an outside patcher if someone in the team wants to drive it :) 12:20:35 doy: hmm, in Crawl, because providing that sort of optional secondary objective feels like something that should be more part of the gameplay 12:20:38 think troves, for instance 12:20:39 greensnark: I'd hate to lose doy in the depths of an achievement patch :) 12:20:47 Collect 14 potions of healing! Achievement unlocked! 12:20:50 Achievement Unlocked! 12:20:52 heh 12:20:55 gmta 12:21:12 scarf: i don't really see why 12:21:15 see, if those 14 potions of healing unlock a portal vault, it suddenly a) makes more sense, and b) gives more strategic depth 12:21:19 than if you just got a message 12:21:27 dpeg: Better than losing doy to tiles! :P 12:21:30 haha 12:21:32 sure! 12:21:50 oh, I am thinking of achievements as stuff outside an actual game, a la "Win a game with [foo]" etc. 12:22:01 dpeg: I thought this was the badges FR? 12:22:05 yeah 12:22:05 or early on, "get the slimy rune" 12:22:11 like medals and such in doomrl 12:22:14 dpeg: hmm, along much the same line as NetHack unofficial conducts? 12:22:20 scarf: yes 12:22:25 greensnark: yes, exactly. Zooko, jpeg and I spend quite some time discussing details of that. 12:22:28 there's the famous "extinctionist" conduct, which requires you to kill all the monsters that ever generate in the game 12:22:34 this would be inter-game stuff, not achievements within a single game 12:22:35 scarf: no, much better. 12:22:37 to the extent that you need to make sure no monsters are randomly generated 12:22:39 Most conducts suck. 12:22:40 so, 120 of each 12:22:50 dpeg: well, agreed 12:22:54 the zen conduct is awesome 12:23:03 bhaak: in tiles, or ASCII 12:23:12 (for zen, this actually matters) 12:23:20 But badges could provide additional iniative to look into hells, or pan, or some weird combo etc. 12:23:39 scarf: then in ASCII because I never play tiles long enough to be blinded 12:23:41 doy: you want me to put our stuff on the wiki? 12:23:52 actually, something I was wondering about was the whole rune-branch-difficulty thing 12:23:58 I get blind whenever I see a tile. Safety mechanism. 12:24:03 I was trying to work out if it was intended or not that some runes were much easier than others 12:24:08 and wasn't sure 12:24:19 scarf: sure is! 12:24:29 Would be very bad design is all runes were equally easy/hard. 12:24:42 dpeg: yeah, wiki is good 12:24:47 somehow, the most crawl-like way would seem to be to have some easy, some hard, but which were easy and hard couldn't be determined at the start of the game and would depend on things that happened during the game 12:24:55 doy: okay, poke me about this from time to time. 12:24:58 we have that a bit already, e.g. Snake is much harder if you don't have poison res 12:26:14 difficulty of Slime depends a lot on build 12:27:03 hmm, yes, that's probably optimal 12:27:41 this is actually one of the things NetHack does /right/ (try asking a bunch of experienced players about Sokoban first vs. Mines first and run from the flamewar), but it only does it once; Crawl has the possibility to do it at least 10 times 12:27:42 i think the main thing that would help would be to make pan/hells/abyss differentiated a lot more than they currently are 12:28:49 sokoban first obviously, doing the mines before that is a waste if you have to quit once you get the amulet of reflection 12:28:52 d: 12:29:12 doy: ? 12:29:30 (also, I know experienced players who will say the exact same thing but reversed and with magic lamps) 12:29:31 scarf: doy's a hoarder. He needs the BoH, otherwise he can;t win 12:29:45 stash management in nethack is so ridiculously painful in nethack 12:29:52 s/in nethack// 12:29:53 bhaak: my last game as a Valk (where I died on Astral), I reached level 48 without a BoH 12:30:11 and could probably have gone the rest of the game without one, but as I found it I picked it up 12:30:28 doy: agree on pan/hells/abyss. But! There are proposals. 12:30:31 yes 12:30:53 Given the speed with which we changed Swamp etc., I see no reason not to change pan for 0.7. 12:30:54 the abyss probably needs some fast and hard-to-kill, but weak-hitting, monster 12:31:00 key word: growing pan lords =) 12:31:11 to stop spriggans just running from everything and getting the rune that way 12:31:14 dpeg: nah, key word: monster demonspawn 12:31:16 (: 12:31:20 doy: use both 12:31:22 and holy levels 12:31:23 sure 12:31:24 it takes me about 2 hours to get the abyssal rune, if I decide to go around startscumming a lot 12:31:24 (: 12:31:30 I really want a holy pan lord 12:31:36 not that there's any reason to, ofc 12:31:41 stash management is also a pain because player think they need all that crap, LATER. 12:31:48 they don't 12:31:48 scarf: You don't have to do it :P 12:31:55 dpeg: oh, I find it relaxing and enjoyable 12:32:01 I've done it at least four times now 12:32:06 bhaak: well, the BoH is a pretty bad idea. 12:32:15 the Abyss is beautiful, although the recent changes to autopickup made it worse 12:32:17 Heck, containers are a bad idea. Also, D&D has them. 12:32:37 scarf: that was fixed 12:32:40 dpeg: I'm told D&D has glass :P 12:32:54 dpeg: this is another NetHack concept that's rather alien to Crawl; oddly, the existence of an ascension kit gives you something to do in the early midgame 12:32:57 as you go around picking up the pieces 12:32:59 greensnark: not true! That's a false rumour. 12:33:00 it's rather like collecting runes 12:33:12 dpeg: I have played and DMd D&D, and it does indeed have glass, also glassteel 12:33:23 scarf: no, not at all. Runes don't do anything for you, the AK wins the game. 12:33:31 greensnark: ^ proof! 12:33:38 dpeg: you still need three runes to get into Zot 12:33:53 greensnark: I've been reading the core books (all editions!) day and night. 12:33:56 (and three pieces of the AK are probably enough to go for the castle wand) 12:33:58 scarf: the ascension kit makes the part of the game before actually #offering easier though 12:33:58 :P 12:34:01 runes don't 12:34:05 axing the BoH isn't something that crossed my mind 12:34:08 scarf: the runes are like bell, book, candle 12:34:15 dpeg: slashem also has an artifact boh with even larger weight reductions 12:34:16 (: 12:34:17 I want to at least have somebody who plays the game :) 12:34:24 Wallet of Perseus 12:34:28 dpeg: http://www.google.com/cse?cx=015155386140379294602%3Ak9hv7ukafn4&cof=FORID%3A1&q=glass&sa=GO 12:34:30 * bhaak AFK eating 12:34:37 dpeg: except bell, book, and candle are also quite useful in certain circumstances 12:34:39 dpeg: no, because those are in a fixed location every game 12:34:40 (: 12:34:47 scarf: and runes aren't? 12:34:49 bhaak: I knew a Swiss couldn't be radical :P 12:34:50 whereas with runes and AK, you /choose/ which way to go 12:34:58 doy: nope, more than 3 of them, so you can skip any of the ones you want 12:35:09 unless you want to skip 13 different types for some reason 12:35:25 In practise the standard 3 runes cover 90% of wins though :) 12:35:41 greensnark: SDSM, cloak of MR, bag of holding :) 12:35:52 oh, unihorn too I suppose, plus a few intrinsics 12:35:55 BoH is superflous 12:35:56 but OK 12:35:59 dpeg: I know 12:36:02 still standard, though 12:36:23 (I think I proved it was superflous by doing nearly all the game without one) 12:37:10 most things in nethack are superfluous 12:37:25 but if the game becomes incredibly painful to play without them 12:37:26 greensnark: isn't it common to do more runes while trying to get ready for Zot? 12:37:27 then... 12:37:47 doy: 7 candles, candelabrum, silver bell, papyrus book, amulet 12:37:53 i mean, i could win a game without a boh too 12:37:53 everything else is individually superflous 12:37:57 but why would i want to 12:38:09 doy: well, that game I was playing wishless, and just hadn't found one 12:38:57 !lm * urune=3 s=rune 12:39:00 753 milestones for * (urune=3): 133x demonic, 130x slimy, 69x dark, 68x silver, 63x fiery, 61x magical, 56x glowing, 46x iron, 39x abyssal, 23x golden, 22x obsidian, 21x icy, 16x bone, 5x decaying, 1x serpentine 12:39:11 does that do what i want? 12:39:18 i don't think it does 12:39:21 you're asking for the third rune found, aren't you? 12:39:31 no, the fourth 12:39:35 !lm * lg:urune=3 s=rune 12:39:38 After my first win I always played without wishes, genocide, elbereth. (Only won thrice, couldn't be arsed to finish another game.) 12:39:42 i'm asking for the runes found in games where three runes were found 12:39:49 4631 milestones for * (lg:urune=3): 1381x serpentine, 1294x silver, 1264x decaying, 299x slimy, 59x iron, 49x barnacled, 40x abyssal, 40x bone, 40x demonic, 37x golden, 35x icy, 27x obsidian, 19x glowing, 16x dark, 16x magical, 15x fiery 12:39:54 aha 12:40:15 dpeg: heh, I'm not sure NetHack's actually meant to be replayed 12:40:28 It used to be the case that *every* winning game had the serpentine rune. 12:40:37 so yeah, snake/swamp/vaults is overwhelmingly the most common combination 12:40:43 dpeg: surely someone did it without Snake as a stunt run? 12:40:47 scarf: well, a game of that size, you'd think so. 12 classes etc. 12:41:11 scarf: CAO has rune stats.... was very, very late when the first non-Snake game came up. 12:41:12 dpeg: I have the feeling that that's meant to give people more options to find a playstyle they like 12:41:37 !lm * lg:urune=3 rune=demonic 12:41:44 40. [2010-02-08] soldroz the Farming Archmage (L27 HEFE) found a demonic rune of Zot on turn 248711. (Pan) 12:41:53 ... 12:41:55 He, I wonder when some youngsters will dissect Crawl just like we dissect Nethack :) 12:41:57 !lm * lg:urune=1 s=rune 12:42:07 1684 milestones for * (lg:urune=1): 443x decaying, 437x serpentine, 196x silver, 101x slimy, 87x demonic, 76x abyssal, 65x iron, 48x bone, 44x obsidian, 43x icy, 35x golden, 24x barnacled, 24x magical, 23x dark, 21x fiery, 17x glowing 12:42:18 dpeg: much harder to dissect a game that's not dead 12:42:24 doy: sure 12:42:25 moving target 12:42:36 NetHack isn't dead either, just its devteam 12:42:41 Is Angband officially alive these days? 12:43:06 scarf: development is dead, apart from one glorious variant and one gorgeous fork. 12:43:10 right now, there's a game where someone noticed a pudding farmer dying on level 22, so he started an archaeologist and dug straight down to level 22 as fast as possible, without even a single kill 12:43:17 and got to the bones pile 12:43:32 Twisted joys :) 12:43:33 and he's spent 2 days agonising over how to use it to set a new gametime record 12:43:44 you'd sort-of think someone would have tried that before 12:43:51 scarf: they have 12:43:54 did it work? 12:43:56 yes 12:44:00 12-conduct too 12:44:04 oh, you mean conducty1 12:44:07 yes 12:44:07 (: 12:44:14 that's different, a) it was bones-stuffing, and b) it was aiming for conducts, not gametime 12:44:26 still held the gametime record for quite some time though 12:44:30 conducty1 was over 5000 turns, Maud's beaten that without stuffing 12:44:49 and bones stuffing vs random pudding farmer bones isn't really a very meaningful distinction 12:44:51 and this game isn't technically stuffing either; a pudding-farmer screwed up, and didn't deliberately try to leave bones for a speedrun 12:45:04 doy: bones-stuffing, you wouldn't put it on dlvl 22 12:45:28 and? 12:45:47 doy: you compare trying to get to dlvl 5 pacifist to dlvl 22 pacifist some game :) 12:46:08 hmm, that test would work just as well in Crawl 12:46:36 hey, I always have 12:46:37 # modified: crawl-ref/source/contrib/sqlite 12:46:40 why? 12:47:07 on the basis that getting to level 22 is a lot harder than getting to level 5 12:47:12 hmm, I'll try it now, could be a good test 12:47:27 dpeg: git submodule update 12:47:37 doesn't help! 12:47:44 can I just check out that file? 12:48:35 gah, why does shift-moving not work with a monster in view? 12:48:38 git submodule update should totally fix it 12:48:57 but it totally doesn't 12:49:06 scarf: because that's not safe 12:49:10 03dpeg * r64fd835170a5 10/crawl-ref/source/skills2.cc: Round aptitudes towards multiples of 10. 12:49:10 doesn't matter, I simply don't use commit -a anymore 12:49:18 dpeg: good! 12:49:19 (: 12:49:39 doy: it's safer than holding down keys, which is what I'd be doing otherwise 12:49:44 and what I am doing 12:50:02 scarf: What would shift-move do with a monster in view? 12:50:03 dpeg: git config --global alias.record '!git add -p && git commit' 12:50:15 The whole point of shift-move is to do nothing with a monster in view 12:50:16 greensnark: continue moving until it got into melee range, fired at you, or you reached a wall 12:50:17 doy: so we will have aptitudes -5...+5 today or tomorrow <3 12:50:21 dpeg: nice 12:50:35 when you're running not fighting, what are you supposed to do? keep bashing keys? 12:50:43 how are you going to know if a monster that's actually dangerous turns up 12:50:56 doy: now I can use commit -a again? 12:51:04 dpeg: no, now you do 'git record' 12:51:08 and then? 12:51:22 and then it'll prompt you for each piece to commit, and then commit those 12:51:48 scarf: how do you know that the monster you're running from isn't actually dangerous? 12:51:58 scarf: That sounds like shift-move would have to become dangerously intelligent to do what you mean :) 12:52:00 doy: because I saw it before I started running 12:52:00 scarf: what should shift+dir do if you're running from a killer bee, for instance? 12:52:21 doy: if you outspeed it, it should work unless you're running towards it 12:52:37 "dangerously intelligent" 12:52:40 hmm, yes 12:52:45 But you just said you wanted to run towards it until you hit melee range :) 12:52:52 greensnark: no 12:52:58 I meant, stop if it outruns you and catches you up 12:53:06 <+greensnark> The whole point of shift-move is to do nothing with a monster in view 12:53:07 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 12:53:07 11:50 < scarf> greensnark: continue moving until it got into melee range, fired at you, or you reached a wall 12:53:22 greensnark: yes, as in, you're running from it but it gets into melee range nayway 12:53:37 or I'd have said "you got into melee range" 12:53:50 a simple test would be, stop if a monster's nearer to you this turn than it was last turn 12:54:00 Then you'd have to worry about not noticing a fast monster and leaning on shift+move, etc :) 12:54:03 that would be quite non-obvious 12:54:08 from an interface point of view 12:54:11 meh, don't worry, this is specialised enough that I may as well just write intercrawl 12:54:27 scarf: pretty sure that would be scriptable with lua, in any case 12:54:39 even better 12:54:49 maybe I can script the whole Abyss 12:54:58 anyway, died on D:8 that game 12:55:02 so 5 seems a lot easier than 22 12:55:41 and on D:1 that game because I got stuck between a bat and a goblin 12:55:49 see dat/lua/autofight.lua for an example 12:56:19 I've been requesting a dwim.lua since before Mantis :) 12:56:50 heh, maybe I should write it 12:56:55 In fact ever since players complained that autoexplore is like the Angband borg 12:56:59 only then, it would do what /I/ meant, which might be something else from what you mean 12:57:29 autofight.lua was apparently written by someone who doesn't actually know lua d: 12:57:43 why are they reimplementing standard library functions 12:57:45 I suppose as a bot writer myself, autoexplore seems really unintelligent, but it's a lot better than nothing, and a lot better than what most people would need 12:57:52 or imagine 12:58:06 what's unintelligent about it? 12:58:23 we're more than willing to take patches for the algorithm, if they actually improve things 12:58:25 doy: things like routing around slow monsters if they can't do anything for oyu 12:58:37 but that would be massively controversial 12:58:43 hmmm, yeah 12:59:03 I'm still pissed that jpeg changed autoexplore just because zaimoni raved about how unsafe it is and how using it was begging to die :P 12:59:13 what? 12:59:15 I mean, that's like a complaint by a Martian who has never played the game 12:59:33 doy: autofight was written by by :) Improve it, it will be very useful on handhelds. 12:59:37 what changed about it? 12:59:56 or you could program all the known vaults into it so it drew out the layout when you came across it, and explored them as efficiently as possible 12:59:57 dpeg: eh, it looks fine for the most part(: 13:00:02 and map the Abyss 13:00:05 dpeg: gorgeous and glorious fork? are you covering all your bases? 13:00:08 just noticed that as the first thing when i opened the file 13:00:09 (: 13:00:12 bhaak: yes! 13:00:21 dpeg: I can be radical, just my players can't ;-} 13:00:37 doy: It tries to avoid moving diagonally into unexplored territory if it can move to an adjacent known square instead 13:00:45 what? 13:00:56 doy: because otherwise you move adjacent to a square that isn't in LOS 13:00:58 Because zaimoni complained that every time he played he moved next to an ogre around corner because of autoexplore :P 13:01:05 if a monster's standing there, it can hit you before you get a chance to do anything 13:01:19 bhaak: yes, I believe you. Sort of indicates you are coding the wrong game, though. There is this nice little roguelike with active and friendly development, perhaps you want to have a look. Submitting bugs is dead easy, too! 13:01:40 greensnark: Johanna does not play. 13:01:48 there we go, reached Temple with not a single attack on anything 13:01:49 greensnark: so she listens to players :) 13:01:49 dpeg: I believe he already knows about how easy it is to submit bugs :P 13:02:00 greensnark: I know :) 13:02:37 I won't succumb to the dark side of the force :) 13:02:53 03greensnark * raa93ce2314ca 10/crawl-ref/source/ (AppHdr.h chardump.cc chardump.h main.cc): For dgl builds, record timestamps every 100 turns to a .ts file in the morgue directory to allow external tools to seek by turn. 13:02:55 03greensnark * r5c29a376833a 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Fix signed-unsigned comparison warning. 13:03:08 D:8 again 13:03:13 doy: Dont take aa93ce2314ca for 0.6 13:03:18 went downstairs with a monster next to me, ended up in a dead end 13:03:23 k 13:03:42 why not? 13:03:48 -!- raydarken has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:57 I'd like to experiment with it on CDO first 13:04:00 okay 13:04:02 greensnark: seek by turn? for ttyrecs or what? 13:04:06 Oh, but CDO is not running master, right 13:04:10 paxed: Yes 13:04:23 Oops, I should hav ementioned ttyrec in the subject line 13:04:45 This is for FooTV to be able to go to requested turns 13:05:03 Well, requested turns +/- 50 13:05:09 ah. i hope you're also outputting clearscreen escapes ;) 13:05:22 Since 0.1.5 or so :P 13:05:54 dgl crawls spit out \033[2J after calling curses clrscr() :P 13:06:24 afaik, only ipbt can go to a specific frame in the ttyrec, others will have to seek to the closest clrscr. 13:06:32 jettyplay can too 13:06:41 also, it has regex search 13:06:50 FooTV uses Term::VT100 to assemble ttyrec frames 13:07:00 perl++ 13:07:00 scarf: yeah, and java. ew. :P 13:07:01 not Term::VT102? 13:07:06 Er, VT102, yes 13:07:10 paxed: it's Perl-style regexen 13:07:18 -!- murphy_slaw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:07:20 the intersection of Perl and PCRE, it seems 13:07:30 except that it handles invalid input slightly differently 13:07:34 doy: did you use greensnark'S OOD fuzz commit? 13:07:43 dpeg: yes, should i have? 13:08:08 I think dpeg's already missing his D:2 trolls for breakfast 13:08:41 hmm, now I'm getting annoyed that Crawl doesn't give XP for running away from out-of-depth monsters. (D&D does.) 13:09:02 "when in doubt, do it unlike d&d" 13:09:04 heh 13:09:17 see, this is why thief is a bad class 13:09:20 We should add that to the philosophy section 13:09:21 -!- murphy_slaw__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09:23 because the game has it out for running-awayers 13:09:26 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:32 scarf: yes, there are plans to do things about that 13:09:41 I like running away, I thought Crawl would be the perfect game for me 13:09:44 but apparently not 13:09:57 but yeah, as of right now, thief is basically just "assassin, but worse" 13:10:10 ??nethack[4] 13:10:11 nethack[4/4]: Design principle 1: If in doubt, do it unlike Nethack and D&D. 13:10:26 now I have to see the rest of that entry 13:10:30 * scarf goes off to PM Henzell 13:10:38 hmm, i just got a non-amphibious unique generated in deep water, in shoals 13:10:59 scarf: also ask Henzell about your favorite nh variant developers :) 13:11:33 !log . char=SpWr ktyp=winning 13:11:34 1. wasp, XL20 SpWr, T:82362: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/wasp/morgue-wasp-20080404-043144.txt 13:11:50 ^that char spent most of the game running away in places like Pan :) 13:12:01 but still killed things? 13:12:07 -!- eith has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:12:14 my record with a 0-exp character is three levels of Pan 13:12:14 not really, with that saber 13:12:16 MarvinPA: What unique? 13:12:23 I'm sure I could do better if I put in enough effort 13:12:24 erica 13:12:40 MarvinPA: Was she standing in shallow water or deep? 13:12:45 (in case you're wondering /how/: abandon Lugonu, find a portal to Pan in the Abyss) 13:12:46 deep 13:12:56 Can you file a bug? 13:12:59 yep, am doing 13:13:05 I should write a test for that 13:13:11 she just stood there, cast some spells, then drowned instantly when i meph'd her 13:13:37 scarf: the point is that getting xp for thief-like play upsets all balance. So we will add a god that gives xp for spotting monsters. 13:13:37 !lm MarvinPA uniq=Erica -tv 13:13:39 15. MarvinPA, XL13 SpCK, T:32726 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 13:13:58 dpeg: makes sense 13:14:13 I'll be happy if you can start with that god, and you start in the abyss 13:14:23 come to think of it, as these games aren't serious, I can just do wizmode anyway 13:14:58 MarvinPA: She was standing in shallow water :P 13:15:02 whatt 13:15:06 She was sleeping and got caught out by the tide 13:15:09 really? 13:15:15 Yeah, just saw it on FooTV 13:15:20 oh, does that count? 13:15:22 Assuming this is your XL13 SpCK of Lugonu 13:15:23 hm 13:15:24 yep 13:15:30 portals to pan in the abyss were removed, by the way 13:15:57 beh 13:15:59 why? 13:16:00 doy / depg: The D:2 fuzz fix still allows a good amount of D:2 OOD spawns - it just reduces them a bit. So instead of 2% of initial spawns being orcs/ogres/centaurs/etc. it'll be more like 1.5%. 13:16:04 because they were dumb 13:16:04 it doesn't look like the tide goes back to shallow water here, though 13:16:15 doy: but how do I get there at 0 exp now? 13:16:17 oh ok, it does 13:16:20 scarf: you don't d: 13:16:21 Oh, it looks like greensnark further changed my D:2 fix; but it looks like it's the same basic idea anyway. 13:16:22 nevermind then! 13:16:24 Twinge: The fix was not aiming to reduce the % of spawns 13:16:27 I was sort-of hoping to find an exit portal in Pan that took me to Slime or somewher 13:16:37 and do a huge grand tour of all the branches just by running away 13:16:40 and you shattered my dreams 13:16:52 It was primarily directed at how many levels OOD a moderte OOD could be 13:18:10 Non-swimming uniques can be placed on deep water (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=912) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 13:18:10 Similar effect I'd imagine? Guess I can run a place-pop on it real quick 13:19:22 No more D:2 trolls for one thing :P 13:19:30 Although I rather liked D:2 trolls :'( 13:19:42 Right, later. 13:19:44 -!- greensnark has quit [Quit: Night] 13:19:50 balance issues with someone just getting troll armour, I assume? 13:19:55 D:2 trolls were 0.005% before we made any changes :P 13:20:52 troll armour could hardly be considered a balance issue 13:20:57 it's pretty bad, overall 13:21:20 doy: it makes you pretty much immune to poison 13:21:26 by regenerating you faster than even strong poison hurts you 13:21:33 it's been really useful when I've got it early-game 13:22:24 ??troll leather armour 13:22:24 troll leather armour[1/1]: Speeds your regeneration, but also makes you hungry. All races can wear this. 4AC, -1EV. Light. Does not work on trolls. 13:22:46 you just swap it in in order to wait off poison, then swap it back out 13:22:48 you don't wear it all the time 13:23:02 bit of an interface mess, really, it should be more like chopping weapons 13:23:21 no, it really shouldn't 13:23:22 Is the bug where monsters 13:23:30 chopping weapons are a serious interface mess on their own 13:23:31 's ego weapons are ego-ided, filed? 13:23:36 erm, that's broken 13:23:49 dpeg: ? 13:23:53 see, that's another thing I'd put in a "better autoexplore", that would also go into heretic territory 13:24:04 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:19 I just killed a goblin with spells and found "a sling; an uncursed runed elven dagger of venom; 22 stones; a goblin corpse" -- the goblin never attacked me. Why do I know the ego of the sword? 13:24:45 you saw when he wielded it? 13:24:52 dpeg: the goblin switched from the sling to the dagger in your los? 13:24:52 you saw him holding it with poison dripping 13:25:13 given the flavour of the venom ego, it should really ID if anything's wielded it in sight, even if you didn't see it wield 13:25:24 incidentally, why can't you pick up a levitating spellbook when levitating 13:25:24 it should id when you see it 13:25:26 scarf: there's already an fr for that 13:25:32 but not sure if i like it or not 13:25:34 I mean if you see a dagger with poison dripping on the floor well the poison is dripping 13:25:37 so it should be venom :D 13:25:46 scarf: it's not levitating as high as you are 13:25:46 cbus: it only drips while you hold it 13:25:47 (: 13:25:49 or is it magical (so that poison only drips when you wield)? 13:25:55 doy: I thought of that, but then it should be fixed in the message 13:26:17 probably easier to just use a different word than 'levitating' 13:26:44 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:26:53 doy, cbus: thanks 13:27:10 if you want to see soemthing funny, check my game, where teleport landed 13:27:19 checking 13:27:23 haha, nice 13:27:31 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:42 dpeg, not playing go lately? :D 13:32:51 cbus: no, not enough time :( 13:32:54 two weeks without go 13:33:00 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:33:06 is there any point in enchanting damage on blowguns? 13:33:15 dpeg, ahh, too bad, been starting to become a regular at the goclub 13:34:37 cbus yes 13:34:44 makes the new needles harder to resist 13:34:49 ahh ok 13:35:53 I'm pretty happy how the blowgun formula came out :) (though in theory it should be somewhat more consistent with e.g. curare, but oh well) 13:37:06 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 13:39:26 -!- bhaak_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:16 -!- bhaak_ has quit [Client Quit] 13:40:33 -!- eith_ is now known as eith 13:41:56 orc wizard with a wand of lightning -- what was he thinking? Electricity is dangerous! 13:41:57 So much Nethack talk I had to skip backlog. :] 13:42:07 Keskitalo: welcome back! 13:42:10 thx! 13:42:30 Napkin: I forgot you can't push! Can I forge your signature for Signed-off-by? 13:43:25 no need to mention me, Keskitalo 13:43:32 Humbug! 13:43:54 pah, just push :) 13:46:56 Fine, I'll write an ode on the commit message then. 13:47:04 fine :) 13:47:44 03Keskitalo * r3a3eecdf264c 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/Makefile: Fix rltiles Makefile not working on Windows. 13:48:03 Not much of an ode, I'm not much of a poet. :] 13:48:15 sounds perfect to me ;) 13:49:31 -!- bhaak_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:50:11 -!- bhaak has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 13:51:12 -!- scarf has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:51 # 13:52:51 * 13:52:51 o 13:52:51 + 13:52:51 # 13:52:57 oops 13:53:41 -!- bhaak_ is now known as bhaak 13:54:08 Quick, grab the + before the * gets you 13:54:50 with that nice picture, I am off 13:55:47 goodnight. Don't let the *s bite. 13:58:18 gn8, don't dream of nethack instadeaths 13:58:20 Exploded hydra drops chunks with broken autopickup. (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=913) by LoginError 13:59:09 doy: green's OOD adjustment seems like an improvement on mine and should be in for 0.6 IMO, for whatever that's worth :) (spawns are still pretty similar overall really) 13:59:20 Twinge: it is in 0.6. 13:59:30 did ood get decreased a bit? 13:59:43 yes 13:59:53 ahh ok 14:00:03 dpeg: Cheers. 14:01:20 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: zzz] 14:01:28 I'm stuck on my GhMo :( 14:01:34 it gets so boring when you almost die on every enemy 14:02:11 that's not the experience i had with my recent ghmo 14:02:35 doy, hmm? 14:02:41 cbus: which god? 14:02:45 makhleb 14:02:48 ah 14:02:58 i played a ghmo of chei recently, was quite powerful 14:03:06 just died to a stupid mistake 14:03:12 just died 14:03:17 kinda relieved 14:03:19 was bored of the char 14:03:37 thats the best thing when not playing to win 14:03:42 you can kill off the char once you get bored of it 14:03:43 :D 14:08:44 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:09 someone on SA died due to a crystal ball of fixation :P 14:12:13 a level 26 character 14:13:00 nice 14:15:27 ?? crystal ball[5] 14:15:28 crystal ball[5/5]: For an object lesson on why not to use unidentified crystal balls: !tv shovelmint d:26 decj 14:15:59 !tv shovelmint d:26 decj 14:16:00 1. Shovelmint, XL25 DECj, T:138790 requested for FooTV. 14:17:03 hahaha, this is hilarious 14:17:10 ??fixation 14:17:10 I don't have a page labeled fixation in my learndb. 14:17:12 ahahaha 14:17:17 ??crystal ball of fixation 14:17:17 I don't have a page labeled crystal_ball_of_fixation in my learndb. 14:17:21 ??crystal ball 14:17:21 crystal ball[1/5]: Crystal balls come in three varieties: fixation (30 to 80 turns paralysis), seeing (magic mapping), and {crystal ball of energy} (restores magic). Obviously, energy is useful for casters and seeing is useful for tanks. An Evoc skill of ~7 is required to use the last two somewhat reliably. Apparently they can cause int drain. 14:17:24 if you missed it check it :D 14:17:25 how long is that paralysis? 14:17:25 wow 14:17:32 too long 14:17:32 haha 14:17:44 could be a tad more generous with that 14:17:44 how is that too long? 14:17:51 since you pretty much need spoilers to know about it 14:17:54 yeah, i'd say 20-30 would be plenty 14:18:05 otherwise it's just a random death, however hilarious :P 14:18:07 right 14:18:16 what does fixation do? 14:18:22 only paralysis? 14:18:23 ??crystal ball 14:18:23 crystal ball[1/5]: Crystal balls come in three varieties: fixation (30 to 80 turns paralysis), seeing (magic mapping), and {crystal ball of energy} (restores magic). Obviously, energy is useful for casters and seeing is useful for tanks. An Evoc skill of ~7 is required to use the last two somewhat reliably. Apparently they can cause int drain. 14:18:27 yes "only" 14:18:28 cbus: paralyzes you for 30-80 turns 14:18:30 that's it 14:18:38 it also trains evoc :) 14:18:38 so they are completely useless items only made to kill players that don't id? 14:18:41 :D 14:18:51 I like it! 14:18:52 jarpiain: not very efficient turnwise :P 14:19:00 syllogism, nutritionwise? :D 14:19:03 I guess you could wear an amulet of stasis 14:19:13 I shall attempt this 14:19:47 hmm stasis doesn't prevent the paralysis :P 14:20:14 oh it also slows you 14:20:19 like that matters 14:20:22 i think making it something more like 4d8 turns or something along those lines would be more reasonable 14:20:32 80 turns is just ludicrous 14:20:43 paralysis duration is random_range(15,40) 14:20:50 oh, hmmm 14:21:00 the change to absolute time halved fixation duration! 14:21:01 that's not horrible i suppose 14:21:02 does it do that twice 14:21:04 seems like clarity should be more likely to block fixation. either that or boost it :p 14:21:07 because that's exactly half 14:21:09 of 30-80 14:21:19 oh 14:21:21 Ooh right 14:21:23 sorear nerfed it I think 14:21:24 probably because it also slows you 14:21:28 or that 14:21:34 so it's 15-40 turns of absolute time 14:21:40 but sorear tweaked the crystal balls a bit 14:21:45 shrug 14:21:46 a day or two ago 14:21:56 hmmm, really? 14:22:02 i don't remember seeing that 14:22:34 "Make killing yourself with crystal balls a bit harder." 14:23:05 doesn't look like he touched fixation 14:23:10 heh, b26 fixation was 100 turns of paralysis and slow 14:23:52 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:57 -!- neunon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:10 -!- neunon_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:25:25 -!- neunon_ is now known as neunon 14:32:14 it's 15-40 turns with the new delay system, so apparently slow doesn't affect paralysis duration? 14:32:19 -!- TGW has left ##crawl-dev 14:32:37 hmm actually I think it was only 11 turns this time 14:32:44 I suppose slow wears off quick 14:33:00 so it's less than 15-40 14:34:27 -!- neunon has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:41:54 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:48:32 Cigotuvi's monster placeholder tile (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=914) by Porkchop 15:00:37 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 15:02:14 morning all 15:05:49 Morning Textmode :) 15:07:23 morning Keskitalo 15:08:04 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:30:07 -!- Siber has quit [Quit: Whoa! Partial hit!] 15:31:43 -!- murphy_slaw_ has quit [*.net *.split] 15:31:43 -!- stabwound has quit [*.net *.split] 15:32:02 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 15:48:01 -!- Textmode has quit [*.net *.split] 15:48:01 -!- sorear has quit [*.net *.split] 15:48:18 -!- sorear has joined ##crawl-dev 15:48:33 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 15:50:58 03j-p-e-g * rdc996c5a4dff 10/crawl-ref/ (docs/options_guide.txt settings/init.txt): Add another autoinscribe suggestion, though commented out. 15:50:58 03j-p-e-g * rbf871946a142 10/crawl-ref/docs/tiles_help.txt: Update tiles_help.txt to the Alt -> Ctrl-Shift change. 15:50:58 03j-p-e-g * r3ee8628f6c11 10/crawl-ref/source/ (13 files in 3 dirs): Add inky wave overlays for the kraken's ink clouds. 15:50:59 03j-p-e-g * r72439d9ce101 10/crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: Fix double-bracketed terrain descriptions on examining surroundings. 16:00:58 hmm, if you have added travel exclusions for monsters and remove them, leave the level and get back you tsill get the message about them being there 16:03:50 munged MiBe tutorial mesage (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=915) by Chigusa 16:06:08 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 16:13:29 03j-p-e-g * rd05e88a1d8e8 10/crawl-ref/source/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Add Porkchop's tile (slightly tweaked) for Cigotuvi's Monster. 16:27:07 -!- Spads has joined ##crawl-dev 16:27:48 Yay matthew is back! 16:32:46 yes! :) 16:41:45 hmm.. can I change the background color of the message overlay in tiles? 16:50:08 -!- permagreen has joined ##crawl-dev 16:52:04 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 16:52:07 -!- TGW has left ##crawl-dev 17:00:15 there's no option for that (at least yet) 17:02:42 How difficult would it be, though? 17:02:57 to just change it? 17:03:08 all you need to do is change the rgb values 17:03:13 ahh 17:03:17 to add an option would be a degree more complex 17:03:21 Yeah. 17:03:26 mainly you would have to read the option and then construct the color based on it 17:03:27 str to rgb values 17:03:36 which I think has already been done with the rltiles stuff 17:03:47 so in theory, not too difficult to duplicate 17:04:24 Hm, maybe not. 17:06:39 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 17:06:41 E - the +0 robe of Death Resistance {Dex+3} 17:06:48 that seems like something that shouldn't happen 17:07:09 why? 17:07:32 misleading-ish name 17:07:48 not particularly 17:08:26 Hm. 17:08:44 ho due 17:08:49 Ho TGW. 17:09:01 hi due 17:19:34 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:24:14 :) 17:36:09 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:39:03 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:35 -!- TGW has left ##crawl-dev 17:46:08 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 17:46:21 03j-p-e-g * r1a3efe164531 10/crawl-ref/source/tutorial.cc: Fix #915: Corpse glyph and corresponding message wrong in tutorial. 17:46:25 03j-p-e-g * r310886515ab3 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (17 files in 3 dirs): Make Jiyva's altar jiggle quite a bit. 17:46:28 our blinks are jaundiced... is there any logic there, or is it just yellow? 17:58:06 -!- TGW has left ##crawl-dev 18:10:55 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:11:53 03dolorous * r00e34295885d 10/crawl-ref/source/skills2.cc: Fix a few instances of the new aptitudes' not being multiples of 10. 18:13:37 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:26:36 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 18:29:44 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:36:26 -!- due has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:38:08 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 18:39:38 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 18:44:25 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:48:15 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:03:28 Textmode: TGW is confused why blink is yellow 19:03:49 !tell Napkin <3 <3 <3 My Mantis updates are threaded! 19:03:49 sorear: OK, I'll let Napkin know. 19:05:57 <3 threaded Mantis updates. 19:05:57 Enne: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 19:06:00 !messages 19:06:01 (1/2) neunon said (21h 39m 16s ago): I think this whole 19:06:18 !messages 19:06:18 (1/1) neunon said (21h 38m 27s ago): Whoops, enter key. I think this whole second target thing is a bogus hack. Why only rewrite those files conditionally? Because they might not have changed? Why would they be rebuilt in the first place? What forced them to rebuild? I think that's what needs to change. 19:16:49 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 19:18:25 -!- permagreen has quit [Quit: Welcome to the real world] 19:33:23 -!- TGW has left ##crawl-dev 19:41:39 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44:00 03Enne * rb2e0d9c5140b 10/crawl-ref/source/tilepick.cc: [835] Don't display OOS blood/mold for tiles. 19:47:11 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 19:47:26 -!- Enne has quit [Quit: Enne] 19:50:07 sorear: Isn't blink considered an escape spell? 19:56:20 Textmode: don't tell me 19:56:29 it's everyone else who'se confused 20:03:23 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 20:04:27 Hello! 20:06:39 Howdy! 20:31:01 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:32:15 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:32:35 !messages 20:32:35 No messages for bmh. 20:42:12 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 20:55:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:D.brodale 20:55:43 this guy has last edited .. 2 weeks ago 20:56:05 he has commented autoritatively on Talk:Linley's_Dungeon_Crawl 20:56:20 he has the same initials as our friend // {dlb} 21:03:03 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 21:15:04 Crash in snake:5 (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=916) by caotto 21:39:10 03Enne * r985f4d906106 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files): Make tiles use viewwindow for 'X' map display. 21:39:14 -!- TGW has left ##crawl-dev 21:41:26 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 21:48:23 03Enne * rf0ba43beab64 10/crawl-ref/source/view.cc: [885] Fix draconian tile issues in the Abyss. 22:19:10 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 22:19:23 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:24 "_Your legs become a tail as you enter the water. 22:19:24 You hit the hobgoblin, but do no damage. 22:19:24 You kick the hobgoblin. 22:19:24 _You kill the hobgoblin! 22:19:25 " 22:19:28 Bug or feature :)? 22:19:32 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 22:50:01 -!- raydarken has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:36 -!- Enne has quit [Quit: zzz] 23:05:23 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920]] 23:06:39 -!- DrPraetorious has joined ##crawl-dev 23:07:41 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:20:11 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:27:45 -!- Napkin has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:32:21 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 23:47:51 -!- Ero has joined ##crawl-dev