00:09:24 I guess I need to compile tiles to test this. Do I just do 'make debug tiles' or? 00:09:30 make debug TILES=y 00:09:36 k 00:09:41 BEES 00:09:44 OMFG BEES 00:09:45 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]] 00:09:45 * due runs away 00:11:09 BEES?!? 00:15:12 We'll see who brings in more honey! 00:34:35 Is the piety-for-exploration model not making it into 0.7 ? 00:36:31 is ashenzari doing a cia impression? 00:36:48 yes 00:38:05 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:40:38 03neunon * rff3a2a0f7c25 10/crawl-ref/source/contrib/lua: lua: fix submodule revision 00:40:45 Steven Noonan * rff3a2a0f7c25 ( changed): lua: fix submodule revision 00:43:40 I hate submodules. 00:48:41 How would you guys feel about Conjurer being split into 2 kits called Storm Caller and Magma Shaper? ;o 00:48:46 I love submodules. 00:49:20 Since they're really multi-element conjurers it doesn't make much sense leaving them as Cj (Fire/Ice) 00:51:46 It would also open the way to more dual-element spells which could be really cool 00:56:01 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:01:50 !!! 01:01:51 !lg * 01:01:51 538962. Yavar the Vampiric Blade (L27 VpPr), worshipper of Yredelemnul, mangled by an Executioner (led by Tuxt) on D:9 on 2010-02-16, with 539213 points after 138446 turns and 15:21:49. 01:02:24 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:02:24 !killsby -i Tuxt 01:02:25 One game for * (ikiller=Tuxt): 1x Yavar 01:02:37 That guy must not be very happy right now 01:03:55 'Tuxt'? 01:04:09 Pandemonium Lord. 01:04:12 :O 01:04:17 Twinge: MONS_PANDEMONIUM_LORD, see pick_zot_exit_defender 01:04:26 So, I'm really inclined to maake a Pan vault with Frances in it. 01:04:32 Oh, yeah, I was focused on D:9, but then I saw the L27 01:04:38 once you pick up the Orb, all monster spawns are abyssish 01:04:42 * Twinge nods 01:04:53 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 01:04:53 -!- Zaba has quit [Changing host] 01:04:53 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 01:05:12 ip102.148.adsl.wplus.ru? 01:06:16 Alrighty, got the weight/size/corpse tweaks finished up -- http://www.it-is-law.com/dump/0008-Monster-Weight-Size-Zombie-Corpse-Tweakes.patch 01:06:44 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 01:13:37 Does B0rsuk ever come in irc? 01:15:11 Don't thin kso. 01:16:09 he used to be a regular 01:16:23 back when I was starting 01:16:23 Well, I haven't seen him in a while 01:16:27 I would love to talk Stabbing with him :) he seems very knowledgable on the subject 01:16:35 indeed 01:17:25 I'm sure he'd love to tell you all about it! 01:17:29 He's a very personable person. 01:17:50 !tell Keskitalo How's the NaTM write-up going? 01:17:50 due: OK, I'll let Keskitalo know. 01:20:51 I wonder if I should go to bed tonight 01:21:07 I'm not really tired for once 01:21:35 For some reason writing about Crawl wards off the need for sleep 01:25:37 !seen pigvomit 01:25:37 I last saw PigVomit at Sun Feb 14 03:40:07 2010 UTC (2d 3h 45m 30s ago) quitting with message Quit: Java user signed off. 01:25:40 hm 01:25:56 that is a cool dude too 01:26:21 Porkchop's tiles are excellent. 01:37:10 due: You can check the draft. :) 01:38:46 Awesome :) 01:38:58 I'm putting the four wizlab tiles that I think are essential on the 0.6 tiles page. 01:39:01 Do you think that'll be okay? 01:39:42 Not only okay, but you should definitely do that. 01:39:44 :) 01:42:27 Excellent 01:42:46 Keskitalo: anyway, the reason I was asking was for this weekend's play-testing post 01:42:58 I've got a write-up from David on Divinatiions, so I can use that instead (if you still have work to do on the draft) 01:43:04 (I haven't logged in to look at it yet, been busy. :)) 01:43:23 Vandal is definitely one of us now 01:44:39 Why? 01:44:44 due: It's not missing that much. Two paragraphs and screenshots. I think I can do them tomorrow. 01:44:49 Keskitalo: Ooh, awesome. 01:44:53 Screenshots sounds *great*. 01:45:09 I'm going to start the play-testing post tonight, actually, and do it incrementally this time. 01:45:41 due: One good topic would be tiles interface changes from 0.5.2->0.6. I could do that. 01:45:49 That wuld also be great. 01:46:00 I'm looking foorward to playing the spellcasting menu. 01:46:56 So.. you need two play-testing posts? I could post the NaTm separately, and do the tiles interface thing for the later p-t. 01:47:59 lichform seems to be really popular on sa 01:48:02 Actually 01:48:03 is this true in general? 01:48:10 i've never even used it 01:48:13 This weekend, next weekend, the wweekend after, and the weekend after that. 01:48:16 So I actually need four. 01:48:22 and i didn't realize very many people did 01:48:27 I've got one for David, and I'll probably have spare time to do something on Portal Vaults 01:48:38 So if you do a tiles interface one, plus the NaTM, that's four Hooray! 01:49:47 Okay! The Che iteration in that game is getting old, but I'm not sure it matters; the things I mention should still be true for the current and coming Che. 01:50:12 doy: lichform is one of the natural directions of growth for a conj-caster in the extended endgame 01:50:30 people like us who rarely get more than 5 runes don't use it much 01:50:37 but I used it on my GnEE all-runer 01:51:05 after maxing Earth Magic, "hmm what do I do now with pan xp... I guess tmig and necro can't hurt" 01:52:39 I think my max is five runes. 01:52:55 I find the endgame hideously hard. 01:54:10 Is it possible for spells to have 2 different effects based on if they impact an enemy or end on empty space? 01:54:24 Sure. 01:54:28 So like 01:54:34 Look at Haunt 01:54:40 It requires a target, otherwise it does nothing. 01:54:48 Not exactly what you meant, but similar. 01:54:55 If I wrote up an Earth / Fire spell called Fragmentation Bomb 01:55:12 If it encountered an enemy, it would do its damage to that enemy 01:55:12 You get the joy of coding it! 01:55:16 I wonder if there's a handy way to count innate mutations of the species. 01:55:25 But if you cast it at an open tile 01:55:30 it would explode like Fireball 01:55:32 Keskitalo: Isn't there an option to those functions? 01:56:15 due: I would love to code it 01:56:27 I was just wondering if having those 2 different behaviors would be feasible 01:56:44 due: how_mutated() doesn't seem to have it. :) But, mutation removal can't be allowed to remove the innate mutations.. perhaps I should check that function, yes? ==) 01:57:37 doesn't how_mutate(false) not cont facial? 01:57:49 Hm. 01:58:05 Oh, that's only demonspawn mutations. 01:58:23 Vandal: in theory, all you really would need to do is travenrse the ray and see if the projectile hit anything, then do whatever it's supposed to do 01:58:26 I also need to count those. :) 01:58:40 cool 01:58:43 thanks 01:58:44 Keskitalo: Actually 01:59:02 Keskitalo: According to the code in newgame.cc, raciial mutations are stored in you.demon_pow[i] 01:59:14 Keskitalo: which is what passing all=false to how_mutated checks 01:59:19 ..okay, that's nice and transparent. 01:59:22 so how_mutated(false) should ignore racial as well as demonspawn mutations. 01:59:43 yeah, it's pretty icky. 01:59:55 due: Thank you! I'll just do a separate check in the silver damage function for demonspawn. 02:00:01 :) 02:00:18 * due currently looking into post-generation lua chunks. 02:00:20 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:00:26 due: !!!!!! <3 <3 <3 <3 02:00:37 Well, it shouldn't be *that* difficult 02:00:41 Adding the chunk and calling it is really easy 02:00:49 It's just a question of where to call it from 02:00:52 No, but it should be *that* awesome. :) 02:01:14 Agree 02:01:34 due: would there be balance concerns stopping players from having a conjuration spell with smite targetting? 02:01:34 vault-wise it would just be like doing "validate{{ blah blah }}" 02:01:46 Vandal: Doesn't make sense. 02:01:53 Well it could just be an Earth spell 02:01:58 Vandal: Conjurations are you conjuring something out of thin air and then throwing it at them, say. 02:02:13 but, dropping a Stalactite from the ceiling 02:02:27 Too powerful ): 02:02:32 Too powerful? 02:02:36 Yes. 02:02:37 :) 02:02:39 *;) 02:02:45 haha, I didn't even say what spell level it would be 02:02:53 need spell ilke that nao 02:02:59 butterflies + smite conjure... 02:03:18 It would replace Throw Flame in the Magma Caller book I am dreaming up 02:03:21 L2 02:03:34 so not exactly a big dmg thing 02:03:45 I'm just trying to make it more evenly Earth / Fire 02:03:49 the book overall I mean 02:04:10 er wait Magma Shaper :) 02:04:15 ok maybe 3 AM is a bit late 02:04:32 Isn't Airstrike smite targetted? 02:05:01 Earth needs some life breathed into it anyway too 02:05:14 Fire Storm 02:05:17 smite targetted 02:05:54 ;3 02:06:00 Keskitalo: airstrike isn't conj 02:06:04 Vandal: Drop Stactite is <3 <3 <3 <3. I assume it would be usable once per square, to prevent pinning abuse 02:06:14 doy: True! 02:06:15 :D 02:06:25 I like the Earthquake spell idea, where all non-flying/levitating get slow and damaged for a duration. 02:06:50 Damaged for a duration - what would be the point? 02:06:57 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:06:57 -!- Zaba has quit [Changing host] 02:06:57 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:07:07 I mean damage over time. 02:07:09 aoe snare with damage over time 02:07:17 in game terms 02:07:29 What do you mean pinning abuse? 02:07:58 Also, is there a way it could be dodged by monster EV? 02:07:59 I think making the smite-targetted earth attack spell Grow Stalagmite would be interesting counterpart for Airstrike. (GS wouldn't hit levitating/flying creatures) 02:08:12 Vandal: get the ancient lich stuck behind summons, then drop stalactites until it dies 02:08:22 oh 02:08:35 @?? ancient lich 02:08:35 ancient lich (16L) | Speed: 12 | HD: 27 | Health: 54-162 | AC/EV: 20/10 | Damage: 2013(drain) | Flags: 07undead, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(504), 05fire, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 10742 | Sp: b.cold, paralyse, greater demon, animate dead, iron shot, teleport self / b.draining, animate dead, summon undead, throw frost, crystal spear / b.fire, confuse, haste, b.draining, grea 02:08:41 would not be an issue 02:08:55 L2 spell, it would take a hundred casts to kill an Ancient Lich with it 02:09:03 w/ armor reduction 02:09:18 how about a vampire knight? 02:09:25 or a plain vampire 02:09:39 earth spells are known for being inaccurate 02:10:14 So.. abuse wouldn't be an issue, because the spell would be unusable in general? 02:10:18 seems like by the time you're fighting stuff like that you'd have better nukes capable of taking them out in 1-3 casts anyway 02:10:39 no.. abuse wouldn't be an issue because it wouldn't be very powerful, you'd be killing stuff worth less than 50xp with it 02:10:52 you'd have better spells by the time you were on Vampires 02:10:54 Thats D10~ 02:11:03 Magma Bolt pretty easy by then 02:11:15 Kill their summons too that way :) 02:11:37 I thought summons were already nerfed too 02:11:45 Well, I suppose Airstrike would have the same problem. 02:12:27 also I specified Stalactite because those come from the ceiling and drop down :) hence it could hit flying targets 02:12:35 throw flame gets you pretty farj though in the context of book spell changes 02:12:46 ? 02:13:10 I wrote up a pretty neat new Fire spell for L1 a while ago 02:13:35 actually Stalactite could be L1 even 02:13:46 that spell was more intended to replace Throw Flame in the Cj book 02:14:39 this one 02:14:40 http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:magic:spell:flame_lash 02:15:18 So yeah, L1 smite targettable spell, it cannot possibly be more powerful than stuff like Magic Dart already is 02:15:34 The only limiter on that spell is that it is L1 02:15:51 the dmg matching that 02:16:26 throw flame or throw frost needs to die 02:16:29 yes exactly 02:16:33 that is why I wrote Flame Lash 02:16:39 2 months ago.. XD 02:16:43 is that like flame tongue? 02:16:46 no 02:16:49 read the link 02:17:02 I did a very nice write up for it including the in game description 02:17:04 and dmg die 02:17:49 Keskitalo: It's *easy* 02:18:07 Keskitalo: you just have to iterate over Level_Vaults and execute the post-generated Lua prelude. 02:19:35 I think Stalactite and L1 and this at L2 would be a really good combination to get a caster off the ground 02:19:57 say Stalactite has a maximum range of 3 or something to avoid abuse 02:20:23 you want to force the caster to work on 3 and 4 range spells until later? 02:20:51 Just until L4 02:21:05 Then they get the Fragmentation Bomb I mentioned earlier 02:21:17 more range + alternate AoE mode 02:21:47 then good old Magma Bolt to finish off the book at L5 02:21:56 (L3 would be Conjure Flame) 02:23:13 Cj (Fire) doesn't even have an L4 right now.. ;o 02:25:36 Flame Lash could be extended to 5 squares with 20% dropoffs as well 02:26:18 Yeah.. that with 3 range Stalactite would be pretty sweet 02:33:31 * due borrows Vandal. 02:33:45 * due draws a chalk circle, sprinkles salt, etc. 02:33:47 * due bleeds Vandal, intones the words of the Greensnark Summoning! 02:33:53 Greensnark, greensnark, greensnark! 02:34:02 * due splashes blood hopefully. 02:34:06 Greensnark, greensnark, greensnark!! 02:34:11 how elaborate 02:34:14 I hope it works 02:34:16 Me too. 02:34:18 * Vandal bleeds out 02:34:21 I have questions. 02:34:30 (It's our take of the Rite of Ashkente). 02:34:45 g'night for now 02:38:35 !tell sorear tell me how you like Flame Lash later 02:38:35 Vandal: OK, I'll let sorear know. 02:41:29 due: but... greensnark isn't even in reception range 02:41:29 sorear: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 02:42:49 !clear-messages 02:47:37 sorear: blast. 02:47:42 Wasted a good sacrifice for nothing :/ 02:47:50 Oh well ,I'm sure I can sucker in a newbie from ##crawl later. 02:55:44 sorear: Does my changing MAP_CACHE_VERSION cause any other problems then just invalidating and requiring the recaching of maps? 03:14:40 due: potentially. You can't start multiple instances of Crawl in parallel if the map cache files are stale, so if you change the map cache format you absolutely need to tell Napkin 03:14:58 because he needs to start Crawl once before opening public access 03:15:04 Okay 03:15:11 will co-ordinate it then 03:15:25 things blow up if you try to run two copies of the level compiler at once 03:16:22 delightful 03:22:26 sorear, why do they? 03:22:38 Zaba: incorrect file locking 03:22:54 incorrect and very confusing file locking 03:23:08 interesting.. I somehow suspected absent file locking, but that would be too easy. 03:23:14 the compilers overwrite each other's files and it turns into a big mess 03:23:23 that does sound pretty nasty 03:23:48 sorear, does it involve a potential infinite loop or deadlock? 03:24:59 Zaba: it involves fread(), unchecked array indices, and partially overwritten files, I think if I tried hard enough I could get remote code execution out of it 03:25:07 nevermind deadlocks 03:26:02 ok, sounds like real fun indeed. 03:27:21 I'll just hide over here in the corner and pretend it isn't hapening. 03:27:43 Darshan wants to throw out the map cache code and start over 03:27:49 but that's not happening for 0.6 03:29:43 due, but you will miss all the fun that way! 03:30:26 Hm, messages are working, but mores are not. 03:30:34 Oh, I know why. 03:30:49 Zaba: just so you know, something in IRC failed earlier today and told the world your IP 03:31:09 sorear, yeah, I somehow identify *after* autojoin kicks in 03:31:29 sorear, it's been this way for ages, and I guess the world's got bored with knowing my IP long ago 03:32:19 presumably it can be fixed with a /wait in autosendcmd, but I never tried. 03:32:40 It woooorks. 03:33:13 Or not, bugger. 03:35:39 Zaba: how do you identify? 03:35:53 with a kind message to nickserv 03:36:45 Zaba: you can use your nickserv password as the password to the irc server 03:37:35 isn't it nick:password? 03:38:40 Zaba: just password, it identifies for whatever nick you ask for when connecting 03:41:39 hm 04:00:04 hmm, still no fix for fulsome :D 04:06:00 cbus, send patches! 04:06:06 zaba, just revert 04:06:17 it "used to work" :D 04:19:09 cbus, why exactly is it an issue that fulsome doesn't work without a corpse? 04:19:30 zaba, hard to practise transmigration 04:19:46 very hard to be able to get the forms castable 04:20:38 hm 04:21:02 especially since Tm aren't the ones with extremely high int 04:21:36 no reagent, no spell 04:21:39 makes perfect sense to me 04:21:54 then how are Tm supposed to practise transmig? :) 04:22:05 yes, it makes sense, and somehow something tells me that the lack of training problem should be solved in a different way 04:22:07 since evaporate which is the current training spell should be the same 04:22:15 (and is level 2) 04:22:23 evaporate *is* the same 04:22:24 and starting to train with spider form (to be able to use spider form) is weird 04:22:28 if it's not, it regressed 04:22:42 you train by using fulsome on actual corpses 04:22:45 and its a bad solution to add something like sandblast just to be able to use it 04:22:58 works fine for me 04:23:02 using fulsome on corpses 04:23:29 but tmig doesn't go up fast enough to get blade hands or anything castable within "reasonable time" on lets say Mf that start with 11 int 04:24:16 moin! 04:24:19 just turn off unarmed and you'll be fine 04:24:38 sorear? you think creating the db/des folders is problematic? 04:24:50 I did that, everything was delayed by 3-4 levels 04:24:59 but you were fine 04:25:02 no 04:25:15 Napkin: yes 04:25:16 didn't get to use spider form until I died because of slow training 04:25:32 I had that concern in the past too - and was told not to worry 04:25:33 tomorrow I'll prove you wrong 04:25:38 probably by greensnark 04:25:47 was a problem caused by it? 04:25:56 and I was told by greensnark that "the change should've already been fixed" 04:25:58 really I don't think adding spectifically victory dancing features to spells is a good idea at all 04:26:00 or he was surprised that it wasn't 04:26:07 do you see an option to create them before enabling access to the version to players? 04:26:10 but for now I must sleep, *poof* 04:26:33 g'night 04:27:23 night 04:28:06 maybe we can create a patch together, cbus? 04:28:18 sure 04:28:25 i'd like to start a NaTm soon too :) 04:28:29 haha, yaeh :D 04:28:42 loading up my arhclinux-vm 04:28:47 so, let's find jpeg's change and undo it first? 04:29:09 could be easier to just remove the check :) 04:29:22 check for what? 04:29:23 check for the message, grep for it and then check whats going on 04:29:31 but we need to implement the z/Z 04:29:43 ugh 04:29:49 zZ is an abomination 04:29:55 it's design 04:30:04 personally I still think Z/z is a bit of overthinking in the interface 04:30:04 abomination 04:30:06 they won't accept our patch if we don't go along with it 04:30:19 i like it very much 04:30:26 Napkin, it should be as easy as git revert to undo the fulsome patch 04:30:36 much less escape - since spell ranged got introduced 04:30:50 undo is probably not the right way 04:31:01 we need to add Z not to check for a corpse 04:31:15 in a separate commit :> 04:31:30 and while we are at it we can add so that you can remacro z to do it without checks 04:31:30 hehe 04:31:36 and still have Z do evokation 04:31:46 no, cbus 04:31:53 focus, young padavan ;> 04:32:18 I wonder why does terence rhyme with pillardance, sort of. 04:32:28 but yeah, I think you only need to revert 04:32:43 then we would have to add the corpse check manually again 04:33:21 i'd rather keep it at z - and remove it/add exception to Z 04:33:32 or am I wrong? 04:33:33 1314 in spells4.cc 04:33:46 well, that would still not help me since I have it macroed :D 04:33:55 wait - updating cdo first 04:33:59 well, adjust your macros! 04:34:10 you have an macro editor in CDO's DGL :-P 04:34:28 it doesn't work 04:34:31 you can't macro like that 04:34:35 you can 04:34:40 macro z to Z and Z to V 04:34:42 Heh, when I saw all the Z/z talk I thought you were talking about small and large zombies at first ;P 04:34:46 it bitches and moans if I remember correctly 04:34:48 not what I meant 04:34:58 Hi Twinge :) 04:35:25 twinge, <- Z 04:35:26 :D 04:35:30 Master branch on CDO updated to: 0.6.0-a2-120-ga33f998 (16.5) 04:35:41 alright, let's see 04:35:49 Hail. 04:36:16 It was on my mind since I finished up the weight/size/zombie/corpse stuff; just needs to be looked over and committed 04:36:19 napkin, you could just change the mpr and return false to break; 04:36:57 or just remove the case alltogether :) 04:40:40 ok, I see that - so how and where is the z/Z done? 04:41:23 no clue, this is the first source dive I've done in 5 months+ 04:41:36 hehe, checking spl-cast.cc 04:43:39 hmm, gotta get back to some wokr 04:43:51 run, I'll continue trying 04:44:15 hehe, its easy to fix, just change the return false to true and remove the mpr 04:44:29 that won't be accepted :) 04:44:42 but the problem is the check, not z and Z 04:44:58 yes - let's not allow the check if Z is pressed 04:55:03 can someone tell me what exactly is the deal with ballistomycetes? 04:55:09 kill them 04:55:21 that's what I did 04:55:28 got 500 exp for destroying a colony 04:55:56 but.. still 04:55:56 they can spread - connected by those cyan floor tiles 04:56:11 and they produce spores 04:56:20 and what is that red line that flashes when I kill one? 04:56:27 if you ignore them, they can easily produce more than you can handle 04:56:58 ignoring a monster in crawl sounds silly anyway 04:57:00 that's the connection to the colony 04:57:17 *if you don't search and kill them immediately 04:58:14 somewhat like jellies 05:01:28 hmm.. should I do the corpse check in cast_a_spell() (where range check is done) or rather modify your_spells() to get the force_spell flag as parameter? 05:02:12 napkin, not getting to train transmutation at all as a NaTm (hunger...) 05:30:21 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:30:25 !seen due 05:30:25 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 05:30:25 I last saw due at Tue Feb 16 09:33:13 2010 UTC (1h 57m 12s ago) saying Or not, bugger. on ##crawl-dev. 05:30:35 !messages 05:30:38 (1/1) due said (6h 16m 49s ago): This trove needs a book of Tukima to function. Give it the item? <-- SUCCESS 05:30:52 Hey, nice. 05:49:36 moin David 05:51:14 dpeg, you missed a kobold discussion last nite 05:56:16 hmm, back 05:56:18 napkin, hows it going? 05:56:36 I'm not sure yet how to add it 05:58:01 should probably create a count_corpses_in_stack() - but I believe they'll reject if I check specifically for FULSOME in cast_a_spell().. 06:06:25 ok, giving up :) 06:11:01 hi 06:11:07 wb, due 06:11:11 napkin, funky code? 06:11:48