00:00:18 It has no depth? 00:00:45 Whatever level you entered from + 1. 00:00:57 hmmm 00:01:09 skeletons and zombies should definitely have a xp modifier of less than 9 00:01:20 lack of regenerating is pretty big 00:02:25 All the normal ones already take a big hit from the speed reduction (<10) 00:02:46 yes, because the speed reduction is also pretty big d: 00:04:14 @??ogre zombie 00:04:14 ogre zombie (07Z) | Speed: 8 | HD: 5 | Health: 32-53 | AC/EV: 0/1 | Damage: 14 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(8), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 51. 00:05:10 I think the no regen is reasonably offset by the cold and poison resist, myself 00:08:23 do any other gods favor or forbid spells? 00:11:43 all the good gods and fedhas forbid necromancy, TSO forbids poison attack spells, Vehumet likes conj and summ, kiku likes necro, zin forbids some random spells like poly other 00:14:45 Well Fedhas doesn't just forbid necromancy anymore, though the change isn't actually in place yet ;) (psst, I was serious when I said go ahead and add in that too while you're at it Text :) 00:17:29 all good gods forbid necromancy as a whole? 00:18:02 yes 00:21:28 Hum. There seems to be several unused definitions in the main dungeon spawn tables. Stuff like Deep Elf Blademasters, Reapers, etc. have weights but not depths or vice-versa 00:21:53 hmm... 00:22:11 unless they were turned off for a reason, might be interesting to fix them up. 00:22:14 I could clean that up while I'm at it I guess 00:22:26 Or add them, depending 00:22:54 Reaper certainly shouldn't be weight 40 though even if it's like Depth 30, hehe 00:22:57 variety is always nice. 00:23:33 I'm looking at a little variety, since D:24-27 or so is really pretty chock full of yaktaurs and stone giants and not that much else 00:24:09 What are some good monsters to add that never spawn in the dungeon right now? So far I've got death drakes on the list... 00:24:59 oh man I feel cool 00:25:16 I just spent a long time doing something slightly fancier but still useless 00:27:38 I would bet that most of the ones that have no depths are to increase the uniqueness of branches 00:28:17 Yes, a lot of them are. But there can be some overlap, especially if the spawn rate is rare 00:29:42 what other spells does zin dislike? 00:29:56 poly other 00:30:06 banishment 00:30:07 I imagine he dislikes summon uglies in trunk 00:30:10 summon ugly things 00:30:34 why does he dislike banishment? 00:32:23 Twinge_: hmm? add what? 00:35:16 Text: The new Fedhas spell restrictions; much less than 'all of Necromancy' 00:35:34 Requires codiing since it's not just a blanket spell class 00:36:18 wheres the list? 00:36:47 (or the criteria?) 00:37:01 Fedhas is the god of the carbon cycle 00:37:17 necro spells which break the carbon cycle - animate dead is the prime offender - are hated 00:37:20 The criteria is mostly 'doesn't screw with decomposition' 00:37:27 I'll get a list though, 1 sec 00:39:37 Animate Dead, Animate Skeleton, Fulsome Distillation, Simulacrum, Sublimation of Blood, Twisted Ressurection, Necromutation, Cig's Degeneration. 00:40:10 your list needs death channel 00:40:16 Death Channel is fine. 00:40:24 I think the problem I'm having with conj spells not highlighting properly is a issue in the menuing function, since it seems to work on other menus...but I can't see anythign wrong... 00:40:28 We already tweaked this list a couple days ago 00:41:12 Death Channel still leaves the corpses to rot into the soil 00:41:24 So Fedhas doesn't care 00:41:30 -!- Twinge_ is now known as Twinge 00:41:35 hmm... 00:43:24 can you see anythign wrong with this? http://loveclub.pastebin.com/m3ab19ca4 00:43:37 I'll add that list of spells... 00:44:15 oh man 00:44:58 Shout by friendly merfolk missing value (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=728) by GrimmSweeper 00:46:17 I just got this to work 00:46:21 against odds 00:46:28 is Fedhas considered a neutral god? 00:46:33 yes 00:46:39 but he hates necromancy 00:46:39 okay, good :) 00:47:55 due: here? 00:47:59 we're just talking about how thats not quite the case anymore :P 00:55:38 Speaking of highlighting in menus, I could have sworn that right after it was implemented, 'a cursed runed flail' would have been red; now, it stays the same purple as the unidentified runed flail. 00:56:14 but that could be an issue with my rc 00:58:41 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]] 01:00:23 http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=729 01:00:27 so no one can see anything wrong in that paste? 01:01:52 TGW: I look forward to encountering one in the wild. 01:03:34 Text: I don't really know the code well enough to comment on its validity 01:04:12 can anyone here delete attachments on mantis? 01:04:19 I need to update that real quick 01:05:03 Unable to place Temple vault 'temple_eino_002' (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=730) by b0rsuk 01:05:03 Lugonu altar vault (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=729) by TGW 01:12:52 I'm just annoyed since that marking problem is the only real issue remaining with spell highlighting, and I'm pretty sure its in the spellcasting menu code... 01:21:19 -!- TGW has left ##crawl-dev 01:30:42 Yo. 01:37:30 * Textmode huggles due 01:38:16 hugs? do you want something? ;) 01:38:59 :P 01:39:23 can you see anythign wrong with this? http://loveclub.pastebin.com/m3ab19ca4 01:41:17 no? 01:43:40 Hmm.... 01:44:25 the only meaningful issue that seems to remain is that it doesn't seem to want to properly highlight god-favored spells in the casting menu (and it seems, only the casting menu) 01:44:35 I wouldn'tbother with that 01:44:38 We do't need it 01:46:24 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 01:46:40 !tell dpeg Giant frog on D:2 after 832 turns. :) 01:46:40 due: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 01:46:44 greensnark! Love the history post. 01:47:22 Hey due :) 01:47:37 Thanks 01:47:55 I don't like the fact that theres a random bug int there, particularly since everything is going through the same code paths... 01:48:10 I love the history 01:48:15 Giant frog on D:2 ins't really OOD 01:48:29 greensnark: I've never seen one that early before in all my playing of crawl. 01:48:36 A lot of characters can off a giant frog 01:48:42 SpBe can, sure 01:48:54 Any fighter type or a mage with a few levels 01:48:58 A lot of characters will just die :) 01:49:06 Giant frogs are quite weak 01:49:07 It was next to the down stair that I took from D:1. 01:49:37 @??giant frog 01:49:38 giant frog (03F) | Speed: 15 (swim: 60%) | HD: 4 | Health: 12-32 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Damage: 9 | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(16) | XP: 88. 01:49:48 Isn't it funny that Crawl frogs are weak to cold, but ADOM frogs are weak to fire 01:50:40 Adom drakelings were hot 01:50:48 Neat mechanic, that 01:51:48 New play-testing post is also up. 01:52:40 link? 01:52:54 http://crawl.develz.org 01:53:02 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/?p=326#more-326 01:53:05 Surprisingly, there are no comments yet. 01:53:06 Rargh. 01:53:17 I should change it to "This week in nerfs". 01:53:56 heh 01:54:30 I love the new ugly things 01:54:50 Although I guess I may change my mind once I start meeting the brown dudes more often 01:56:00 Monster spellcasting really needs to be fixed before 0.6 01:56:02 heh 01:57:32 Giant Frogs are depth 10, finding on on D:2 is pretty extreme 01:57:39 Meh 01:57:55 Depths are rarely related to real danger 01:57:58 Same as finding a centaur on D:1 in terms of depth basically 01:58:07 03greensnark * rab0c02b6abcb 10/crawl-ref/source/dgn-shoals.cc: Use better flood when deepening water in Shoals to avoid rectangular deep water outlines at low tide. 01:58:26 green: I'm working on that a bit :) 01:58:36 Oh? 01:58:48 depths being unrelated to danger is half the fun of crawl 01:58:54 Most attempts to fix the problem end up making the early game terribly bland 01:58:56 Be warned 01:59:21 I *like* encountering impossible-seeming threats 01:59:49 sorear: 80%+ of my list is lowering the monster depth numbers 01:59:55 Uh 02:00:13 Lowering as in making them appear earlier or later? 02:00:27 Earlier 02:00:46 To lower a number in US English is always to move it towards minus infinity 02:01:20 yeah, but you could be lowering the *number*, or lowering the level (making it deeper) 02:01:21 :P 02:01:25 Basically only 2 monsters get a relevant increase, of only +1, so far. 02:02:21 -!- Kil2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:18 So the temple map is picked by name at start of game now, eh 02:03:32 I guess someone renamed or removed temple_eino_002 02:04:14 If we're going to pick maps by name, might as well generate the temple level in advance 02:04:28 Otherwise it's just asking for trouble :P 02:04:35 Sounds like lots of fun. 02:04:45 Poor b0rsuk :P 02:04:49 Hehehe. 02:04:51 http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=730 02:07:04 Hey, Grimm says he met the Lernaean hydra 02:08:55 Hmm. 02:08:58 @??trapdoor spider 02:08:58 trapdoor spider (11s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 24-64 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 2004(medium poison) | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 455. 02:09:01 @??wolf spider 02:09:02 wolf spider (16s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 24-64 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 2004(medium poison) | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 454. 02:09:15 They'reboringlyalike. 02:09:16 Exactlly the same besides the trapdoor ability :/ 02:09:57 Can I tweak them a bit? 02:10:39 I think you can 02:11:00 Why do we even have trapdoor spiders :P 02:11:17 sounds like something zelgadis would have added 02:11:30 like our UI nightmare fireball traps 02:11:36 Fireball traps? 02:11:41 We have those? 02:11:42 fog generators 02:11:45 Oh 02:12:01 I know, traps and doors skill should prompt when you're about to step into range of a fog machine 02:12:04 Well, fog generator blame should be pinned on vault designers :P 02:12:17 meh, I hated the idea from the get-go 02:13:46 Ettin & Two-headed Ogre are also really similar 02:13:48 @??ettin 02:13:48 ettin (07C) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 21-56 | AC/EV: 3/4 | Damage: 18, 12 | Res: 06magic(28) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 284. 02:13:51 @??two-headed ogre 02:13:51 two-headed ogre (04O) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 18-48 | AC/EV: 1/4 | Damage: 17, 13 | Res: 06magic(32) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 282. 02:13:59 hah. 02:14:03 Yeah, I broke the Lernaean hydra 02:14:06 let me dig something for you 02:14:07 Nice of Grimm to notice 02:14:08 Ettin gets a dire flail instead of giant clubs basically 02:14:08 greensnark: how so? 02:14:22 It lost its multi head attack 02:15:32 In this case I'd kind of lean towards just killing off Ettins, but I'm not certain 02:15:51 greensnark: :o 02:17:27 greensnark: How'd you do that? 02:17:39 case 127: showed = 79; break; // two-headed Ogre (used to be Ettin, but that was boring) 02:17:39 Arena is crashing messagewindow 02:18:05 showed=79? 02:18:18 due: I changed their species and left their genus on hydra, forgot to make the multi-attack check also check genus instead of species 02:18:37 due: 79 is the ASCII code for 'O' 02:18:38 Ahhh 02:18:47 that's the part of crawl1.05 which assigns glyphs to monsters 02:19:43 Ah 02:19:50 is mon-data a soupism? 02:19:58 no 02:20:03 mon-data is a brentism 02:20:07 ah 02:20:39 sorear: Haha, funny. 02:21:30 actually, it's older than that 02:21:49 mon-data.h (then m_list.h) is present at least as far back as 2.70 02:21:52 03greensnark * r453197072ad3 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Restore the Lernaean hydra's multi-head attack (Grimm). 02:22:10 * sorear needs to actually do that contacting linley thing 02:22:41 why? 02:24:11 one would hope he's well aware of the project... 02:24:34 lolol, Ettin 02:24:38 Ettin's descrption: 02:24:43 "A two-headed giant. 02:25:01 Linley is aware of the project, he dropped by ##crawl a while ago 02:25:03 Thought that said ogre at first, which would've been funnier :P 02:25:09 03greensnark * r4b0d9dee5881 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Allow the Lernaean hydra to target multiple enemies in one attack round. 02:25:50 greensnark: But what does he think? 02:25:57 I know brent didn't like what happened with statues. 02:26:02 So uh, any reason not to just kill off ettins straight up? 02:26:25 greensnark: "a while ago"? 02:27:48 A year or so, I think :) 02:27:51 :) 02:27:53 Twinge: make them two-headed ogres, keep. :) 02:27:53 I wasn't around, but I think dpeg was 02:28:07 Linley was on as Yredelemnul 02:28:10 !seen Yredelemnul 02:28:11 I last saw Yredelemnul at Thu Apr 3 12:23:16 2008 UTC (about 1y 44w 2d 20h 4m 54s ago) saying Keskitalo: theres got to be some easy way to do it... that console window is a little annoying:). 02:28:18 :) 02:28:18 08? 02:28:30 Almost two years. 02:28:37 heh 02:28:48 Yeah, like I said, "a while" :P 02:29:08 Text: Uh? We *have* two-headed ogres. And their stats are practically identical to Ettins. That's why I said to kill them off =) 02:29:30 ah... 02:29:56 What are the two-headed ogres called? if these are ettins... 02:29:58 make them interesting otherwise! 02:30:25 Text: "Two-headed Ogres" 02:30:27 :P 02:30:46 Twinge: I'd rather kill those, than the ettins. 02:31:00 * greensnark proposes e-headed ogres. 02:31:04 Text: They have a species that is relevant, though, with packs 02:31:21 Just make ettin interesting. 02:31:30 green: The Lernaean Ogre? 02:31:31 We should also have an avogadro's-number-headed-hydra 02:31:34 yeah, probably the simplist in the end. 02:32:21 (though personally, I'd rename the 2h-ogres -> ettin, then kill the 2h-giants) 02:32:28 due: There isn't the wiggle room I'd like for making them interesting, but I can try. Really, it doesn't make much sense that they're weaker than hill giants - they have an extra head :) 02:33:29 is _get_spellbook_list as unfortunate as it looks? 02:33:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6tunn 02:33:55 We can definitely take interesting stuff from that. 02:35:39 Looks like I need rob's help 02:35:53 Messagewindow is crashing in different and exciting ways in the arena 02:36:00 Fun!!! 02:36:05 Maybe arena is missing some initialisation it needs 02:36:41 due: There's an embarrassing gap in my Crawl Archive; I haven't found any version of Crawl between 1.1 and 2.70 02:36:59 this is, like, the Cambrian Explosion of crawl development 02:37:06 things added in this interval: 02:37:08 - vaults 02:37:10 - branches 02:37:12 - uniques 02:37:14 - gods 02:37:20 :O 02:37:33 - arcane spell failure 02:38:01 I think my friend who got me nto crawl already gave you the versons he had/ 02:38:33 who? 02:38:40 Phil/Sunfall. 02:40:34 Terrible, terrible lag. 02:42:15 I don't particularly feel like doing anything crawl-wise tonight. 02:43:12 How does weapon damage work exactly for monsters? Is it basically just monster base damage + weapon's base damage? 02:43:46 it's basically random2(monster base damage) + random2(weapon base damage) + random2(weapon enchantment) + change 02:43:57 then you multiply by brand modifiers 02:44:07 change = +1 for orc with orcish weapon, etc 02:44:31 Ah, so they are seperate rolls, gotcha. Less variable 02:44:36 does wayne get that for dwarvven? 02:52:50 due: "Monster’s killed using Cheibriados’s Slouch ability" :) 02:53:53 whats the recommended way to do debug prints in crawl? 02:53:58 dprf 02:54:03 greensnark: What about it? 02:54:08 Oh 02:54:10 thanks 02:54:11 :D 02:54:13 (normally I'd just printf, but somehow I think that would just corrupt the screen...) 02:54:13 I must be tred 02:54:16 took me a minute to realise that 02:54:21 Textmode: mpr or dprf 02:54:40 message print, and debug print? 02:54:50 mpr and mprf are the standard text outputs for crawl 02:54:54 dprf is a debug-based wrapper for mprf 02:55:08 okay, cool. 02:58:31 -!- ogaz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:58:33 spell_title == spell name, right? 03:03:57 definately in the menuing code somewhere, the highlight selection code is telling it the right colors... 03:05:13 !tell by ./crawl -arena 'hydra v hydra delay:0' consistently crashes messagewindow. If you have time, could you check out why? 03:05:14 greensnark: OK, I'll let by know. 03:06:14 Argh 03:06:24 Maurice stole my wand of healing and used it up 03:06:29 :/ 03:06:34 Didn't you add Maurice? :P 03:06:48 :) 03:06:50 Hoist on your own petard? :P 03:07:18 I understand he stole 7 potions of heal wounds from syllogism, and managed to quaff them all before syllogism killed him <3 03:07:43 * greensnark <3 Maurice 4ever. 03:07:47 sounds like a unique I'll *love* to meet... 03:07:54 I had a hilarious fight with him once. 03:08:06 It involved me polymorphing him into a giant blowfly at one point. 03:08:14 And he still had invisibility 03:08:20 Invisible giant blowflies are scary :P 03:08:26 heh 03:08:47 greensnark: He used the items? Or spell? 03:08:49 Oh 03:08:53 He spawned with a wand of healing 03:08:55 Spell 03:09:11 @??Maurice 03:09:11 Maurice (03@) | Speed: 11 | HD: 5 | Health: 60 | AC/EV: 1/13 | Damage: 9 | Flags: spellcaster | Res: 06magic(26) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 463 | Sp: invisibility, blink, teleport self. 03:10:02 !lm uniq=~Maurice 03:10:06 3. [2010-01-14] greensnark the Shooter (L9 DEHu) killed Maurice on turn 12046. (D:8) 03:10:18 Was that it? Can't recall 03:10:21 !lm uniq=~Maurice -tv 03:10:21 3. greensnark, XL9 DEHu, T:12046 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 03:13:01 stranger, and stranger...Summoning spells are being consisitantly flagged, but conjurations, and the three extra spells (shatter/lrd, sandblast) are not... 03:13:08 and only in the casting menu... 03:30:37 idk, do you want me to just submit as is? I'm pretty sure that the only flaw... 03:34:23 03greensnark * re483324c177d 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Fix hydra zombies being allowed to multitarget (oops). 03:35:01 Textmode: yes, plz submit 03:35:15 on your head be it :P 03:35:44 whats the best way to go from git to patch (or...what form do you want the submission in?) 03:36:08 man git-format-patch 03:37:58 should I rebase first? 03:38:20 how many commits have you made? 03:38:29 03greensnark * r69d995e8e82e 10/crawl-ref/source/test/ (rune-gen.lua shoal-hut.lua): Fix lingering references to Shoal:X (due). 03:38:51 greensnark: Glad to know my telepathic transmissions are working. 03:39:09 due: Well, I was reading your post on cdo, and you mentioned ziggurat failure :) 03:39:19 Hehe, yeah, I thought that might've been it. 03:39:20 And I thought, "Oh, now I realise what I was forgetting then" :P 03:39:25 15 so far, and I'm adding the latest changes now 03:39:32 Textmode: Ah. 03:40:02 So we now have 38k ziggurat entry milestones, eh 03:40:12 Poor Henzell's long-suffering db must have taken a hammering 03:40:12 Rebase, then do git diff origin/master > patchfile, then git reset --hard origin/master, then apply the patchfile (git apply ), then commit it, then format the patch. 03:40:18 Because me? I am too lazy to apply 15 patches. 03:40:36 greensnark: You know Henzell loves getting hammered by Zigurate milestones. 03:40:45 -!- paxed has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:40:48 I need to take my I key off, there s a rice stuck underneath. 03:40:58 heh 03:41:34 888ookokokookm9kju89olkiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii 03:41:37 Oh, sorry. 03:41:43 Thought I was in a blank window. 03:41:43 :P 03:41:59 I was just going to congratulate you on your greatly improved writing skills 03:42:06 Ookookook? 03:42:17 You misspelled ook :/ 03:42:19 -!- paxed has joined ##crawl-dev 03:42:21 :/ 03:42:35 * due goes away in shame. 03:42:59 * greensnark tosses due a banana. 03:43:18 What, demons now get pentagrams in tiles? 03:43:20 This I have to see 03:43:37 Do they stand on pentagrams or something 03:45:43 Can I make the tiles display bigger 03:46:15 Heh, new orb guardian tile is funny 03:46:18 Geez, by the time I'm done with all of this I'll have made over 300 number changes ;O 03:46:39 -!- raydarken has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:47:29 Twinge: we don't have a lot of number fiddling experts 03:48:03 18 in all. 03:48:20 now, to re-read the chapter on rebasing... 03:48:46 sorear: Hehe, I like that. 03:48:58 !learn add twinge Number fiddling expert. 03:48:58 twinge[1/1]: Number fiddling expert. 03:49:39 due: I demand pictures of ugly things in that blog post 03:49:57 Barely legal slime creatures too 03:51:08 "$git rebase spellcolors origin/master"? 03:51:57 Yes, that'll work 03:52:13 What are these spell colours? 03:53:50 Here's what I've got so faron depths: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:feedback:monster:depth -- Untested so far and only the first major pass 03:55:27 Yay a snarkish comment! 03:57:20 You have to cater to the thuggish masses 03:57:28 Ugly things in bikinis are practically mandatory 03:57:53 I don't think gnoll depth should be increased 03:58:08 greensnark, due: I have the log of linley's visit on ##crawl, http://orthanc.fixme.fi/linley-at-%23%23crawl.log 03:58:16 Keep your shirt on. 03:58:34 And making rats appear earlier might make the D:1 crowd rather boring 03:58:42 greensnark: http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/bikinithing.png 03:58:47 *HAPPY*?! 03:58:52 Ooh, hot 03:58:55 I'm not sure how much changing rat depth would affect anything, it's kinda weird 03:59:00 Can you edit that into the post? 03:59:10 Thus my note that I'll need to test it 03:59:20 greensnark: ... no. 03:59:27 It would make them more common on D:1 03:59:43 D:1 already has the least interesting monster mix in the game, because it has no level-fuzz on generation 03:59:56 due: Noooooooooo! 03:59:57 For gnolls, I just had another thought - I could leave them at depth 5 (same as hobgoblins), but make it so they only appear in a band if it's at least D:2 (so on D:1 they'd show up but only alone) 04:00:02 greensnark: suggested that ood yaks don't generate in packs. 04:00:05 I like this idea. 04:00:09 (Pack creatures, etc.) 04:00:12 Twinge: I think gnolls are perfectly fine as is 04:00:35 due: Yeah, that's reasonable 04:00:44 No fuzz on level creation? That can't be right, gnolls can be there on level creation. 04:01:00 D:1 has no level fuzz at all 04:01:13 But monsters can be picked up to +5 out of depth even with no fuzz 04:01:16 +-5 04:01:31 greensnark: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/?p=326&cpage=1#comment-78 04:01:48 Ooh <3 04:01:57 I actually had to look up bikini on Google images because I couldn't think of what one looked like. :-? 04:02:03 Straight up? Same odds as if they were the same depth? 04:02:21 Apparently I am unlike Rincewind in that I have no lingering taste for heterosexuality. 04:02:29 No, their weight is reduced if they're not at the requested depth 04:02:51 Rincewind has a lingering taste for heterosexuality? 04:03:02 I haven't read the early Pratchetts in a looong time 04:03:08 I'm sure there's a quote in one of the early Wizard books. 04:03:17 I did read Unseen academicals recently, but it was disappointingly weak 04:03:24 Something akin to "Wizards might leave if they had a lingering taste for heterosexuality". 04:03:26 Okay. Any easy way to generate 100s of D1s and output the results? 04:03:28 I'm still avoiding reading it. 04:03:35 Twinge: Yes!!! 04:03:40 Twinge: ./crawl -script place-pop D:1 04:03:44 ---^ 04:04:33 Tends to take a while though 04:05:13 Good, though. 04:05:43 Egad. Centaur Warrior? Spiny Worm?? 04:05:51 Oodilicious. 04:05:57 Vault monsters 04:06:05 "crawl" vault. 04:06:13 ooooh. 04:06:14 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:06:15 Centaur warrior, quokka, giant ant, spiny worm, lindwurm, I think. 04:06:19 ./crawl -script place-pop -nomaps D:1 04:06:59 But that will only block random maps, not entry vaults that want to get clever 04:07:07 No lindwurm, but yeah probably it. 04:07:16 greensnark: Did you see the person who died to an orb of fire on D:1? 04:07:22 I thought the Crawl vault was an entry vault though? 04:07:23 Complained about it on SA. 04:07:43 due: Haha, how did they even get at it? Find a wand of digging and go back? 04:07:48 Twinge: Delete entry.des and rerun the test 04:07:52 due: I take it you want me to apply the patch monolithically? 04:07:53 I basically pointed and laughed and went 'lol'. 04:08:09 Textmode: No screaming apes in my crawl, please. 04:08:18 Screaming apes?! 04:08:22 (Speaking of, my memory card reader looks like TMA1.) 04:08:23 screamming apes? 04:08:27 * Twinge smirks 04:08:27 Why do you not want screaming apes 04:08:30 Apes are awesome 04:08:39 I'm assuming Twinge got my joke? 04:08:50 You'll have to explain! 04:08:52 2001? 04:08:53 Twinge: Artificer with a wand of random effect zapping it at the orb of fire in the entry vault. 04:08:53 due: True Fact! 04:08:56 2001! 04:09:06 Monolith automatically makes me think of 2001. 04:09:12 Which automatically makes me think of screaming apes. 04:09:15 green: 'A' = Angels, Daevas, and Giant Apes 04:09:34 I spent most of the other week screaming the 2001 theme. Duuuh... dduuuuh... DUH DUUUH! and wavnig my memory card reader around. 04:09:51 * greensnark does not get it. 04:10:39 Have you seen 2001? 04:10:44 It has the apes at the beginning. 04:10:49 alright, but you want me to apply it all as one change, right? 04:11:09 Yes. 04:11:15 Please. :) 04:12:00 100 seperate patches, comming right up! :P 04:12:00 Text: Did you manage to get in new Fedhas restrictions too? :D 04:12:10 Twinge: Not for 0.6 consumption! 04:12:13 Twinge: should be in there. 04:12:17 due: Why not? 04:12:24 Laziness. 04:12:28 heh 04:12:35 Could introduce bugs, not fully discussed, etc. 04:12:40 Pffft 04:13:57 seems pretty simple and Text has already done the grunt work sounds like! 04:14:37 only as far as highlighting is concerned... 04:14:40 due: No new Mara kills :/ 04:14:57 (then again, theres no reason you couldn't use the same support functions elsewhere...) 04:15:00 Text: Oh :/ 04:15:10 Can we get Mara to occasionally stand in for Sigmund 04:15:14 When Sigmund is unwell, sa 04:15:17 *say 04:15:36 Twinge: Not. 04:15:44 Twinge: It's only highlighting :) 04:16:02 I see, I see. my mistake. Well, it's part-way there, when someone else gets around to it, then! 04:16:38 greensnark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWnmCu3U09w For your viewing pleasure. 04:17:01 Disclaimer: may not involve screaming apes. 04:17:04 So uh, sorry for pushing you to do it Text, I guess ;O 04:17:24 * due pushes Twinge off a cliff. 04:17:33 Twinge: the highlighting code is mostly hinges on one function at the end of spl-util.cc, which uses several support functions (god_likes_spell, god_hates_spell, spell_is_useless, spell_is_useful) to figure out what color things should be. thus, obviously, its consistant with anything that uses those same support functions... 04:17:35 greensnark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML1OZCHixR0&feature=related Screaming apes, eventually. 04:18:08 so far, ofcause, thats "nothing", but the potential is there :) 04:18:14 Ok what the crap is this, draconian zombies on D:1. And skeletons. But no draconians can ever normally spawn in the Main Dungoen. What are the zombie functions using to determine zombie types :( 04:18:27 lol 04:18:27 Twinge: Did you delete entry.des? 04:18:59 I renamed it; is that not enough? 04:19:02 No 04:19:04 Not enough. 04:19:06 Ah. 04:19:08 It auto-scans. 04:19:11 Ahhh. 04:19:15 Yeah I see it made new files 04:19:18 You can just move it 04:19:35 You may also need to delete your db/des folder in saves. 04:19:53 You don't need to delete db/des 04:19:57 Okay. 04:19:59 It won't load the cached file if the original isn't around 04:20:04 Okay! 04:20:05 Awesome. 04:20:07 Wasn't sure. 04:20:12 Alrighty, once more unto the breach 04:21:03 This... doesn't make sense. 04:21:23 Why are gnolls 0.16% and hobgoblins 14.5%??! 04:21:57 Welcome to my life. 04:21:59 ??twinge 04:21:59 twinge[1/1]: Number fiddling expert. 04:22:05 Precisely. 04:22:10 :) 04:22:15 * due hugs Twinge. 04:22:43 "Hello, welcome to Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup 0.6.0-a1-2991-g053c886!" 04:22:45 The percentages are count percentages, not xp or other metrics 04:22:56 Yes, I want count percentages. 04:22:59 Twinge: the weight numbers aren't quite what you think; they're modified in interesting ways 04:23:00 Moin! 04:23:01 gnolls SHOULD be about 4%. 04:23:04 By the numbers. 04:23:10 Or more really, because of packs 04:23:12 Napkin, foregive me! :( 04:23:13 'lo Napkin 04:23:28 I have besmirched the good name of CDO with badly photoshopped ugly things. 04:23:31 I'm about to royally f-k up a patch submission :D 04:23:32 Twinge: at level X, if a level Y monster is rolled, it has a (W - (X - Y)^2) chance of not being thrown back 04:23:42 Textmode: You can stick it on pastebin instead if you want. 04:23:44 lol? 04:23:45 Textmode: or spruge.us. 04:23:49 sprunge.us* 04:23:51 sorear: OH. Wow, crazy 04:23:56 Napkin: due has posted pornographic images :P 04:24:01 due: thats plan b 04:24:05 Napkin: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/?p=326&cpage=1#comment-78 04:24:05 loool 04:24:07 greensnark: Shhhh. 04:24:09 That... is not even remotely how I thought the weights worked. 04:24:18 Twinge: 500 and 100 are the same, except that 500 has a wider depth range 04:24:25 sexy! 04:24:26 :D 04:24:31 plan c is that I just acchive my .git directory and put it in my share :P 04:24:37 also, depths are limited to +- 5 the base depth, regardless of weight 04:24:50 archive* 04:24:53 Textmode: git format-patch 1 isn't working? 04:24:56 Really now. But under 100 actually matters for weighting beyond just depth, right? 04:25:33 see - that would be the first a season-specific mob! 04:25:39 -a 04:25:46 "$git format patch -o ~/splcolor.patch" ? 04:25:53 Textmode: no 04:26:13 Textmode: git format-patch -1 04:26:18 Textmode: Then upload the 0001-.patch file. 04:28:33 And... are you guys sure it's +/- 5 and not +/- 4? There's no worms/snakes/quokkas spawning via script at all 04:28:50 I've had snakes on D:1 before. 04:29:33 Twinge: It's +-5, the monster level on D:1 is 0, not 1 04:29:40 Ahhh. 04:29:45 D:1 = 0 04:29:47 D:2 = 1 04:30:03 greensnark: Is the comment in l_you correct/ 04:30:04 Damn counting from 0, it makes no sense to use it here :/ 04:30:10 due: ? 04:30:16 greensnark: Pasting, uno momento. 04:30:37 without entry.des I seem to be getting no OOD spawns whatsoever though 04:30:38 LUARET1(you_absdepth, number, you.your_level + 1) 04:30:47 // Increase by 1 because check happens on old level. 04:30:48 D:1 is special cased elsewhere 04:30:52 (Sorry, irssi ate the //) 04:30:52 it gets no oods 04:30:54 Ha, an XL 11 character in shoals 04:31:18 D:2 and upwards get OOD fuzz on level generation 04:31:25 sorear: Oh, right, what green was talking about. so OOD D:1 only happens with respawns. 04:31:29 * Twinge nods 04:31:33 * due nods. 04:32:04 due: That's a weird comment and I have no idea what it means :P 04:32:20 But it does mean that Lua will see absdepth as 1-based 04:32:44 greensnark: Yes. I'm assuming it's saying that Lua is compiled and run on the "previous level", before you.your_level is updatd. 04:32:51 I'm not sure if this is still the case or not. 04:32:54 Well, that's not the case 04:32:56 And it has never been 04:33:13 Hm, that seems to be what it's implying. 04:33:17 It might be a case of copy-paste from elsewhere 04:33:27 I thought it was 1-indexed instead of 0-indexed to make more sense for Vault coders. 04:33:33 (For the record: it doesn't.) 04:33:41 (But DEPTH: etc, is also 1-indexed, so maybe it does.) 04:33:48 Oh, that part is fine 04:33:56 The comment is what I'm talking about :P 04:34:09 Here, let me remove it 04:34:11 So next question... with sorear's formula he put above, that'd mean goblins would be 99 - 1^2 = 98 effective weight, and hobgoblns and rats would have a 99 - 5^2 = 74 effective weight. Yet they spawn around 10% less, not 25% less. 04:34:25 Yeah, comment makes no sense. 04:35:40 Cement makes no sense either. 04:36:07 okay, I think I've got the file... 04:37:07 i should attach it to the original issue? 04:37:14 03greensnark * rd47e73b8aa71 10/crawl-ref/source/l_you.cc: Fix confusing comment (due). 04:37:46 <333 04:37:48 Textmode: Sure. 04:37:57 Twinge: Monster generation is like this: the game picks a monster that is eligible for generation, checks whether random2avg(100,2)<= its weight, and places the monster if it makes that check 04:38:12 So it's not really a "weight" 04:38:18 I forgot the random2avg bit 04:39:02 It would make life a lot simpler if we just changed these things to true weights 04:39:08 http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=296 04:39:18 Adjusting the numbers to match the current scene 04:39:23 But I'll pass on that for 0.6 :P 04:39:41 now tell me how badly I botched it up :P 04:39:41 let's make it: if DL < monsterDL: 0 else: weight 04:39:43 Oi, yeah. 04:39:48 with a separate check for ood 04:40:40 random2avg(100,2) means... roll 2 numbers between 2 and 100 inclsuive and average them? 04:41:16 (random2(100) + random2(101)) / 2 04:41:20 Textmode: can you use tw=72 for git commits? 04:41:37 line length limit? 04:42:00 Yeah. 04:42:03 :set tw=72 04:42:31 Oh, Fedhas currently doesn't like corpse rot. 04:42:43 Will fix. 04:42:51 fedhas shouldn't, imo 04:42:54 you want me to re-submit? 04:42:57 No. 04:43:02 Too much work :) 04:43:13 Someone suggested it, I pretty much went based on what I was told. 04:43:18 So, wow, those are some heavily, er, weighted weights. 04:43:20 and heh 04:44:19 I was wondering if they weren't linear; Some low number stuff seemed a lot rarer than 1/3rd as often as a ngoll, or whatever :P 04:45:15 RaRGH TABS >:\ 04:45:52 So what I thought was weight 2 was more like weight 0.04! 04:46:01 Textmode: Seems to make sense; check out the coding conventions file, though. 04:46:10 * greensnark gives due an unrared tab. 04:46:14 bah, i thought I killed those tabs :/ 04:46:19 apprently not... 04:46:25 this retreating crocodile keeps submerging (on land) every time it's more than 2 squares from me 04:46:27 Nobody can kill the tabs 04:46:42 I thought crocs submerging in floor was fixed 04:47:22 btw, greensnark - awsome article! <3 reading it - still at it, though :D 04:48:02 sorear: How does the avg2 combine with the depth difference then? 04:48:09 which conventions did I break? 04:48:13 :retab fixed itself 04:48:29 Twinge: see greensnark 04:48:38 ah, the break; states for one... 04:48:42 statements* 04:49:31 So rand2avg <= Weight - Difference^2. K. 04:49:38 Textmode: also if(blah -> if (blah, and the location of || and && in multiple line if statements 04:50:03 yeah, I see you prefer them to be at the start of the next line. 04:50:05 Napkin: I was trying to keep it short too :P 04:51:06 Textmode: I don't understand line 802 in spl-book.cc. 04:51:08 hehe 04:51:32 "still at it, though" -> no comment posted yet ;) 04:51:33 Textmode: I'm assuming you meant that colour =spell_highlight to be in the block where colour = LIGHTBLUE currently is? 04:51:56 So am I correct in reading that vault generation is the same as main dungeon? (So vault:1 off of d:15 would be exactly like d:16, save maybe some uniques.) 04:51:57 I almost wrote a description of the wand of door creation trick to bottle up the bigroom monsters 04:52:05 I'm glad I restrained myself 04:52:12 I still have scars from that bigroom farming episode 04:52:29 Haha. I never bothered to pacify the big room, no reason to 04:52:31 Twinge: yes 04:52:46 I just followed the guidebook to see if it actually worked :P 04:52:48 due: possibly, I remember trying several locations for that line in that function. I'm pretty sure I tried that possibility at one point, but I couldn't say so with certianty 04:52:49 And it did :P 04:52:49 wait wait 04:53:07 what just caused this channel crossover? 04:53:20 And then... I, uh, fell into a stomafillia farming stupor 04:53:20 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/?p=304#more-304 04:54:07 5ah 04:54:08 ah 04:55:11 due: I have to confess, I find of most of the menu functions very hard to follow... 04:56:14 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 04:56:18 These numbers are going to be harder to fiddle than I thought, Crazy non-weight over-weighted weights... 04:56:58 hi 04:56:58 by: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 04:57:02 !messages 04:57:02 (1/1) greensnark said (1h 51m 48s ago): ./crawl -arena 'hydra v hydra delay:0' consistently crashes messagewindow. If you have time, could you check out why? 04:57:05 Welcome to the jungle! 04:57:08 Hi by :) 04:57:17 greensnark: great history post! 04:57:22 by: Thanks :) 04:57:35 Napkin made me do it :P 04:57:37 greensnark: great post... it's a shame I already knew most of it 04:57:39 green: Indeed. All the more fun and challenging, right? :P 04:58:10 Twinge: I had to write place-pop to adjust monsters in Shoals, because it is impossible to make changes without that script :P 04:58:36 4.1 had saner monster selection, iirc 04:59:49 green: I can see why! I can intuit the changes readily enough with normal weightings, but not so easy how they are actually implemented... 05:00:09 there's a patch on the SF tracker that tries to clear up the monster choice stuff a bit -- not to be applied, but might help in understanding 05:00:25 wow, 4.1 orb run spawns suck 05:00:36 mostly X and hell hounds with a few 234 05:00:59 He's escaping with the orb! Quick, throw a token effort at him! 05:01:17 "Send someone we won't miss" 05:01:22 the game wasn't designed to get that far 05:01:30 greensnark: yeah yeah, I'll be right there :P 05:02:36 greensnark: 4.1.2a uses the same monster choice algorithm as DCSS 0.1 05:02:42 Oh 05:02:43 Textmode: It's fine, I just cleaned up your code to our convention :) 05:02:50 (1-in-5000 chance of instant level 27 ood, yum) 05:02:52 I thought Brent said he was going to fix it 05:03:01 due: coolbeans. 05:03:16 greensnark: do you get the arena crash in a debug build, too? 05:03:34 by: Only tested in a debug build,a ctually 05:03:46 * by stops non-debug build 05:04:01 greensnark: he could have! 4.1 source trees get traded on the underground market, I might have an old one 05:04:07 it didn't crash for me just then, so I thought it might have to do with message length 05:04:09 or rax might have cut it with something 05:04:31 by: Muting the diagnostic channel didn't fix the crash when I tried it 05:04:37 I heard rax cuts 4.1 source trees with svn :o 05:04:44 ah, got it 05:05:01 rax is awesome 05:05:01 D:2 OOD 150 games -- 1 Jelly, 3 Scorpions, 3 Orc Priests, 9 killer bees (2 packs), 5 hounds, 1 phantom, 1 iguana, 2 giant beetle, 6 orc wizards, 2 ogres, 2 ice beasts, 4 giant ants. That is a *lot* of OOD. 1 in 4 games for a major OOD spawn or thereabouts 05:05:23 1 in 4 major ood on D:2 sounds right 05:05:36 most of those aren't very scary 05:05:39 orcs aren't OOD 05:05:43 The bees are scary 05:05:51 is jelly really ood 05:05:54 But I don't think any of those are particularly ood 05:07:01 Into the "m"s. 05:07:03 * due taps impatiently 05:07:17 Yeah, that looks like a nice monster mix to me, barring the bees 05:07:22 That's up to +10 depth 05:07:25 The bees is pretty scary. 05:07:32 As in, seriously scary. 05:07:37 4 yaks in D3! 05:07:39 Can we just get singles instead of packs? 05:07:57 Yeah, I can change that 05:08:02 yay greensnark <3 05:08:03 \o/ 05:08:12 Afternoons! 05:08:12 Keskitalo: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 05:08:16 !messages 05:08:16 (1/1) due said (9h 43m 44s ago): Like the new crocodile tile, btw! Looks crocodile-ish. 05:08:21 due: Great! :) 05:08:22 Hi Eino! :) 05:08:28 Hi Marc! 05:08:29 Hey eino. 05:08:33 Hi Jude! 05:08:48 Hey Jude! 05:08:52 Sorry 05:08:58 * due makes it bad. 05:09:02 I'll be good now 05:09:02 * due takes sad song, makes it worse. 05:09:11 due: I'll make up the anti-pack for OOD thing along with all this other stuff so it's all together 05:09:24 Oh, Twinge is doing anti-pack stuff? Awesome. 05:10:29 Why did Haran want me smacked? :) 05:10:50 Or green can, either way. I mentioned what I had in mind earlier - a check at the top of the band generation function that compares absdepth to the monster's depth rating and makes it never a pack past a certai point, or sometimes not a pack if only moderately OOD 05:10:53 Keskitalo was nnaughty? 05:10:59 I have no idea, but I'm happy to oblige if he did' 05:11:06 Hm. 05:11:07 * greensnark smacks Keskitalo. 05:11:52 * Napkin giggles * 05:12:21 FR: Notes that show in the main playing screen. I really need to remember I have dispersal ammo. 05:12:22 due: so what happens now? 05:12:35 Ah, I can quiver it. 05:13:17 Textmode: I wait for the compile to finish. 05:13:24 ah 05:13:30 ^_^ 05:15:26 due's compile times are of the order of Milankovitch cycles 05:17:01 Oh, this does explain why earlier I was getting 5000 stone giants on D:27 and not nearly as many frost/fire giants, when I thought frost_fire should = stone! 05:17:04 I touched a couple of headers, too. which probably isn't helping... 05:17:17 Textmode: You hit defines.h :) 05:17:35 yeah :/ 05:17:48 Excellent so far. 05:18:01 I'm kinda thinking if maybe I should of put the COL_* constants in the "wrong" place, just to avoid that... 05:18:03 Hm 05:18:16 You hit I, and m, but not z? 05:18:17 Ah, the targeting improvements are so nice. 05:18:22 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:19:14 z? 05:19:25 the spellcast menu isn't highlighted? 05:19:31 "the sight of a monster wearing a shield in 4.1 was enough to make the best Crawl player cringe" :D 05:20:20 its working for me :/ 05:20:24 Hm. 05:22:00 Erm.. a I supposed to pick up 1972 gold from a trove that cost 1600 or so? 05:22:06 Or did it forget to charge me? 05:22:17 1972 is so last century, dude 05:22:20 Keskitalo: Beh. 05:22:25 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 05:22:27 We needa non-gold acquirement flag. 05:22:35 I wrote one but got told off for it. 05:22:37 So... how do random draconians spawn with no random maps and having 0 weight? 05:22:58 Where are they spawning? 05:23:17 Shapeshifters? 05:23:30 Could be shifters, yeah 05:23:36 D:13 in this case. shapeshifters... maybe. I guess the script doesn't report them as shapeshifters? 05:23:53 Yeah, the script just uses the name 05:24:13 "Question: why is such-and-such? It seems impossible!" "Answer: Shapeshifters, it's always the shapeshifters, every time." 05:24:25 It's shapeshifters. 05:24:30 Are they unflavoured draconians? 05:24:39 They're only possible as shapeshifter and polymorph targets. 05:25:15 Yep. There was a human too 05:25:27 Shifters confuse me every time 05:25:37 This makes no sense. 05:27:42 Is this the chewbacca defence 05:27:43 why do I get the feeling you are talking about my code? 05:27:46 Something to-do with grey 05:27:52 Here, look at the monkey, look at the silly monkey 05:28:32 ah, that...not pretty. 05:28:39 Textmode: the z? menu has issues with greys. 05:28:58 the z menu has issues. 05:29:53 Also, green: Looks to me making rats having a lower depth only very slightly increases their spanwing on D:1, while significantly decreasing their spawning on say D:8-D:10. Guess it depends on how important of a food source they are? ;) 05:30:01 Yeah, it's supposed to be darkgrey is there's nothing in range. 05:30:13 Hmm... 05:30:20 Textmode: Will upload tthe altered patch 05:30:25 That might explain a bit... 05:30:47 Textmode: http://sprunge.us/SAZd 05:30:51 oops 05:30:54 ignore that 05:31:03 Twinge: How much more common on D:1? 05:31:08 yes, thats the problem exactly! 05:31:15 Textmode: http://sprunge.us/gHbH insted 05:31:22 * Textmode hits head. 05:31:33 I'm more interested in D:1 than D:8-D:10 05:31:43 D:8-D:10 have a nice mix of monsters, so an extra rat or two is ignorable 05:31:47 D:1, otoh 05:32:39 Textmode: Feel free to just apply that patch, commit it, and then diff off it and send me the output of git diff. 05:33:22 I can just ammend the current commit. 05:33:22 once I've fixed the problem :P 05:33:31 8-10% more common if they were depth 1, for example. Not saying it's the right way to go for sure, just tossing some info about 05:33:47 with delayed messaging, do we actually want the more prompt to clear the window 05:34:41 by: I don't think it needs to clear the window 05:34:49 Unless clear_messages = true 05:35:12 I thought players want to see old messages 05:35:23 And the --more-- is just to keep them from missing messages because of scrolloff 05:36:04 Haunt is very strong 05:36:35 Can we reduce the longevity of Haunt summons 05:36:40 5 is excessive for such a strong spell 05:36:41 Which is hilarious 05:36:48 Considering it used to be the worst spell in the game 05:36:55 they go away when the target monster dies? 05:37:01 No 05:37:08 one interesting question is, however, what *is* the correct coloration for spells with no visible target? 05:37:09 (that was a suggestion) 05:37:22 That might make it too weak 05:38:09 IOOD is also a fair bit too strong 05:38:15 Are we fixing these for 0.6? 05:38:29 Reducing OOD hp might help 05:38:53 There's also Haste, which has been too strong for several releases :P 05:39:02 IOOD hp might be just right for monster-cast IOOD 05:39:06 I had a huge argument with OG17 about whether or not being able to target allies with Haunt was a bug or not. 05:39:06 But Haste is soo tricky 05:39:10 I reckon it's a feature. 05:39:11 The game has been balanced around Haste :/ 05:39:28 Considering Summon Wraiths previously didn't target it or have limitations about when you can cast it. 05:39:29 I think targeing arbitrary monsters with Haunt is cool and can stay 05:39:32 And targetting an ally is useless... 05:39:37 I dislike haunt on allies 05:39:40 But 5 longevity is high 05:40:01 And monster AI cannot handle being surrounded intelligently 05:40:17 Reminds me, I should see if it's easy to fix pathfinding in trees 05:40:30 I saw a game where Rupert went berserk in a little V-shaped clump of trees 05:40:30 by: Someone was screaming bloody murder omg omg omg massive bug massive bug omg omg omg. 05:40:35 by: I got a bit frustrated. 05:40:37 And the fool couldn't find his way around the trees 05:40:48 Before or after the zerk 05:40:55 I don't think it's a massive bug, but it's exploiting game mechanics 05:41:48 If the duration is reduced, it's no tmuch of an exploit. 05:41:49 Doies anyone remember b26 greater mummies? 05:41:49 and a relatively pointless one at that. 05:41:49 They summoned undead around the player <3 05:41:57 All monster summon undead spells targeted the player <3 05:42:01 It made the Tomb quite interesting 05:42:05 lol 05:42:12 Yummm 05:42:49 casting haunt at someone should summon creatures that are allied with you but that oppose the target 05:43:58 this is not possible with crawl's alignment system 05:45:44 when targetting allies 05:45:45 It would be nice to make alignment more flexible 05:45:45 Using a simple faction system 05:45:50 We could also do hilarious multi-way fights in the arena :P 05:45:50 I would suggest to make haunting something friendly make it turn on you 05:45:50 by: Yesss! 05:45:50 I supported that. 05:45:50 The summon duration also needs reducing :P 05:45:50 re IOOD, I want to see it given to monsters; options: Geryon, Murray (vestibule is nicely open), one of the ancient lich spell books (would like to see some orbs in the Zot:5 chambers), (some?) greater naga 05:45:51 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:46:34 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:46:41 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS development channel! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl (new and improved! and possibly buggy... let doy know) | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/ | Instant win: angel complaints is issue #666. 05:46:41 Enslave Maurice? :P 05:46:49 greensnark: Don't think he an steal from monsters. 05:46:53 aww 05:46:58 What? NOOOOOO 05:47:24 *can 05:47:29 Even NetHack nymphs can steal from other monsters :/ 05:49:01 !fight maurice v orc warrior ; potion of heal wounds 05:49:05 Hm. 05:49:10 Nymphs are the single best thing in NetHack 05:49:37 Doesn't look like it. 05:49:38 Also, strongly disagree. 05:49:40 They produce such hilariously goofy encounters 05:49:48 What, about nymphs? :P 05:49:57 You need to look at it with a sense of humour 05:50:32 One of my earliest nymph encounters ended with me running away from her wielding Vorpal Blade :P 05:50:34 I couldn't stop laughing :P 05:51:39 I hate nethack. 05:52:51 03by * r15419324920f 10/crawl-ref/source/message.cc: Fix message window clearing after disabled more prompts. 05:53:17 Hum. Anyone know how I'd go about making a spreadsheet formula to give odds on a rand2avg check being lower than a number? :P 05:56:29 I don't know what that means. 05:57:06 Twinge: are you in pick_random_monster? 05:57:26 !lg mars 05:57:30 173. mars the Exhumer (L3 OgDK), worshipper of Yredelemnul, slain by a killer bee on D:2 on 2010-02-07, with 152 points after 1815 turns and 0:04:38. 05:58:22 Early/ood killer bee packs are worse than early yak packs. 05:59:56 any silence nerf reactions on ##crawl? 06:00:01 We need a unique in a long black coat. 06:00:15 by: None so far. 06:00:24 The screams are still echoing from just suggesting a sticky flame nerf, though. 06:00:32 Really? 06:00:38 oh, the sticky flame nerf isn't in? 06:00:40 I didn't see any complaints on sticky flame in ##crawl 06:00:50 Well, not that I can recall 06:00:55 surely the SF nerf is going ahead, though? 06:01:01 and What silence nerf? 06:01:32 by: No, I closed the ticket because it was getting rarghy. 06:01:56 due: I'd have thought you closed the ticket and did the nerf :) 06:01:57 I'm not sure how monsters deal with SPFLAG_DIR spells that are range 1. 06:02:03 by: Yes, I'm working on the monster generation stuff. 06:02:10 And dpeg said to leave it for 0.7. 06:02:35 due: ah; it's unfortunate to have the ticket closed with the nerf not in 06:02:36 due: I want to get the odds for: The average of 2 random numbers being lower than a given static number. 06:02:54 Twinge: did you read the patch I pointed to before? I've worked these numbers out before 06:03:10 http://sprunge.us/KTTj 06:03:44 by: I didn't yet; I'd rather look at it in spreadsheet form if possible though. 06:04:06 Oh looks like you have a formula of some sort in there though, yeah. Hmm. 06:04:23 by: Yeah, but it was just going to keep getting "nooo you can't and this is why" comments. 06:04:30 I couldn't work out how to close commenting without closing the issue. 06:04:41 due: Let them complain? 06:04:52 It doesn't hurt anyone :) 06:05:08 greensnark: some people get all the emails :) 06:05:10 due: Still like range 2 myself :) 06:05:13 greensnark: They seemed to think it would help. :) 06:05:15 by: Aha! :P 06:05:26 by: Yeah, I get all emails. 06:05:46 I suppose I should enable mantis emails again :) 06:05:53 One of these weekends :P 06:06:34 by: That formula should be what I was looking for, thanks. (Though it seems odd that its split into two subofmrulas, hehe) I'll give it a try tomorrow. 06:07:56 don't remember, it's been a long time; the intention was for that patch to not change behaviour 06:07:57 Can shifters be zombies? 06:08:07 No 06:08:20 Found a loophole in the shifter clause, have you? :) 06:08:27 LOL 06:09:05 green: Perhaps! Why are there red draconian zombies in the main dungeon :( 06:09:51 Uniique band. 06:10:31 Or a vault 06:10:31 or queen bee zombies. or sea snake zombies. With no random maps and no uniques. 06:10:50 The -nomaps option unfortunately affects only random vaults 06:10:57 scratch queen bee, that one is normal, but the others not so much. 06:11:01 Not temple entries, not overflow temples, not any other branch entries 06:11:19 green: Well this is D:27, do those vaults apply here? 06:11:42 does the graveyard special room have drac zombies? 06:12:01 Could be 06:12:09 Special rooms are also unaffected by -nomaps, yeah 06:12:15 -nomaps is a very loose clause :P 06:13:10 Monstly I'm trying to figure if zombies/skeletons use the normal spawn data/weights or not 06:13:47 Delete rooms.des? 06:13:52 That will probably break things though. 06:15:39 Hey, that worked, no breaking :) 06:17:32 also - wow, I don't think golden dragons or quicksilver dragons are supposed to basically never spawn even on D:27, haha. I'll have to fix that 06:19:40 Quicksilver dragons are intended to be vanishingly rare 06:19:53 Except for vaults that request '8' OODs 06:20:13 Right now D:27 is literally about half made up of stone giants, yaktaurs, deep trolls, and wisps :( D:27 diversity, meet D:1 diversity! (okay not quite, since that remaining 50% is made up of 10 times as many mobs, but still) 06:20:58 Also, wait, what? 1.00% | merfolk (D:27) I guess it's just a really popular shapeshifter choice? ;O 06:21:55 We should report shapeshifters as shapeshifters :P 06:22:36 Well in 300 irerations I made 1 quicksilver dragon skeleton and 1 golden dragon total. 06:22:40 Yes, definitely. 06:23:04 Even in debug mode they still hide as normal mobs until you go over them and view their debug info 06:26:11 -!- by has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:26:27 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:27:15 Twinge: golden dragons and quicksilver dragons basically never spawn on D:27, I don't see much of a problem 06:27:35 Twinge: they're from a special pool of monsters that gets tapped into for '8' in vaults 06:27:40 8 = DL * 2 monster 06:27:53 lots of 8s in Crawl greater vaults 06:28:01 so you get golden dragons, ancient liches, etc 06:28:37 (in particular, Vaults:8) 06:28:44 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:50 Cheers 06:28:50 dpeg: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 06:28:57 Moin David! 06:29:03 !messages 06:29:03 (1/4) Cryp71c said (1d 17h 22m 2s ago): (simple) patches attached to 0000283 (Stick Flame Nerf) and 0000295 (Save Macros on Exit) 06:29:14 !messages 06:29:14 (1/3) by said (13h 34m 26s ago): Can we make Khufu affected by silence again? He appears to be the only really odd one out. 06:29:36 !tell by Sure, especially with your recent changes to silence. 06:29:37 dpeg: OK, I'll let by know. 06:29:37 * sorear waves 06:29:42 Hi Stefan! 06:29:50 !messages 06:29:50 (1/2) Napkin said (13h 31m 20s ago): ood-report: 4 gnolls on D1 06:30:02 Napkin: Das ist alles im normalen Bereich =) 06:30:05 !messages 06:30:04 (1/1) due said (4h 43m 25s ago): Giant frog on D:2 after 832 turns. :) 06:30:18 due: You too, my son? 06:30:25 well he is smiling 06:31:01 true! 06:31:12 giant frog on D:2 is quite deadly, of course 06:31:28 !tell Cryp71c Thanks for the patches. The Sticky Flame nerf has to wait until after 0.6 release. The macros patch could go in, but would need a dev to review the code. (I can't!) 06:31:28 dpeg: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 06:32:53 Hm? 06:33:33 dpeg: Heh, well, giant frog near the stair I came down D:1 frfom, right after I got on the level. 06:33:39 Not particularly ood, but still pretty scary. 06:34:09 dpeg: Hit a snag with troves, too tired to look ttonight, will do so tomorrow or so. 06:34:14 dpeg: New play-testing post is also up. 06:34:31 Textmode: Hit me up tomorrow night with the fixed patch if you can, thanks. 06:34:39 okay. 06:34:51 thanks for your help 06:35:05 'welcome 06:35:41 Okay, bedd. 06:36:25 rest well 06:36:51 dpeg: I had a minor issue trying to clean up tgw's kiku altar... it doesn't always work 06:37:00 dpeg: and my "fixed" code doesn't work at all, can't figure it out. 06:37:26 due: yes, the blog is awesome right now. 06:37:45 Also, greensnark started writing literature recently. 06:37:51 Yes, I noticed 06:37:55 I'm looking forward to his memoirs 06:37:59 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:11 due: I tested TGW's vault.... and it worked. 06:38:11 I should have added some quotes from Shakespeare 06:38:19 dpeg: Yeah, but not always :) It's fine 06:38:32 greensnark: Is there any reason why dgn.create_monster would fail to work? 06:38:35 greensnark: You should have pointed out the numerous instances where Shakespear quotes you! 06:38:40 greensnark: And return a blank monsters* metatable? 06:39:18 greensnark: ie, dgn.create_monster(blah, blah, "blahspec") returns a usertabLE OBJECT... where mons.pos = nil, mons.name = nil, etc. 06:39:44 due: that may be the same problem which caused runrest_ignore_monster to fail? 06:39:45 by: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 06:39:53 by: Oh, interesting. 06:40:01 due: It should return nil if it cannot create a monster 06:40:13 greensnark: "Should" being the operative word. 06:40:19 Yes 06:40:36 If it's returning a junk wrapper instead, that's a bug 06:40:53 Hang on 06:41:15 greensnark: http://sprunge.us/ZfIc 06:41:30 greensnark: It's storing the monster in dgn.persist.kiku_mons or something os I could access it via the in-game Lua interpreter. 06:41:35 Worked kinda well, excep tthat it didn't work. 06:41:48 You may be triggering the monster turn safety checks 06:41:57 Hm. 06:42:01 Grumble. 06:42:02 That exists to prevent user scripts from keeping persistent references to monsters 06:42:12 Yeah. 06:42:17 There's enough coders around that I may ask for help. 06:42:27 greensnark: Can we skip that check if it's a non-managed VM? 06:42:57 due: Yes 06:43:24 Well, Che needs help. Which of the following will be easier: adding a new racial trait (a la "dwarven", only now "sluggish") or to make "ponderous" a proper randart property (rather than an ego). In both cases, the intent is to allow Che warriors to make ego armours slow. 06:43:49 Racial trait should be easier, I think. 06:43:55 Randart properties would bring all the randart baggage with them 06:44:04 Including the inability to enchant stuff, unless we removed that restriction 06:44:13 if ((!mw || mw->turn != you.num_turns || !mw->mons) && CLua::get_vm(ls).managed_vm) 06:44:24 greensnark: I was about to say that. 06:44:29 dpeg: Maybe we should allow randarts to be enchantable? :) 06:44:46 * due against this. 06:45:01 They used to be fixed enchantment primarily because all their properties were generated by reseeding the RNG 06:45:08 Yeah, it's a bit of a can o worms 06:45:21 its a big change...not to be taken lightly... 06:45:27 It's cannier of wormser than deep water not destroying items. 06:46:20 having Che stuff be randards has pros and cons 06:46:23 it is an option 06:46:57 greensnark: Is that the right managed_vm check? It's the same one as assert_dlua. 06:47:00 (a) you'd forfeit the option to enchant armour (hence the choice of when to ponderousify your ego items?), but (b) it'd be acid proof 06:47:11 how does making an item a randart affect item value 06:47:12 dpeg: Acid... yeah 06:47:26 From a purely gameplay/design POV, I am not sure which solution I like better. 06:47:35 Which is why I asked the coders :) 06:47:52 greensnark: O_o It's placing the monster on the other side of the level. 06:48:12 due: You alredy made the change? 06:48:17 In any case, if we go the randart way, I definitely don't want enchantibility of randarts (and neither an exception for slowing randarts]. 06:48:20 Or do you want me to change it? 06:48:30 greensnark: Well, I just tried the vault again with magic mapping. 06:48:40 local mons = dgn.create_monster(pt[1].x, pt[1].y, "generate_awake human zombie") 06:48:49 Is *not* placing it at pt[1].x, pt[1].y, vbut halfway across the levle. 06:49:01 What is pt[1].x anyway 06:49:06 What source file is this 06:49:09 pt = dgn.marker_pos 06:49:22 greensnark: http://sprunge.us/ZfIc 06:49:37 I thought it was maybe randomly teleporting the monster because of a miasma cloud, but I added code to clear clouds. 06:49:53 You sure it was your human zomie? :) 06:49:56 Yes 06:49:57 Try giving it a name 06:49:59 okay 06:50:05 Also, don't use that code, it borks save files. 06:50:18 Apparently dgn.persist doesn't cope well with storing monster files. 06:50:36 :P 06:50:41 Yeah, it can't save userdata 06:50:57 You can just save it in any global, doesn't have to be in dgn.persist 06:51:09 Here: fred the human zombie (hasn't noticed you, mindless) 06:51:12 Halfway across the level 06:51:29 Also ,my managed_vm check didn't work. Is &^t considered a managed VM? 06:51:51 greensnark: http://sprunge.us/jIdc <-- current version 06:52:09 Shower, back in ten. 06:52:37 Hm, does anyone have an opinion on ponderous racial trait vs ponderous randart property? 06:53:44 Seems best to handle it as a racial trait 06:53:50 ok 06:54:45 We seem to have an unused block of 4 bits just below the existing item racial flags 06:55:23 When I say handle it as a racial trait, I really mean a flag independent of the racial flag 06:55:43 Because I don't see what ponderousness has to do with the item being elf/orc/dwarf stuff 06:55:44 -!- by has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:55:44 by had a look yesterday but distanced himself from the problem after seeing the code :) 06:56:22 by's DSL can sense Cheibriados discussions and protect him by disconnecting 06:57:02 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:57:06 greensnark: you could say that elves etc. simply don't make ponderous items. 06:57:14 greensnark: yes! :) 06:57:55 I am not sure we want "dwarven ponderous crystal plate mail of fire resistance" :) 06:58:28 dpeg: But I thought ponderousness is a quality the player can add at any time? 06:58:47 :P 06:59:05 Isn't it just an invocation to Cb? 06:59:20 It'd be odd for the thing to lose its dwarfness when it becomes ponderous 06:59:33 I guess we could change the name 07:00:10 greensnark: oh, that is a good point 07:00:25 Makes me run to the randart property camp, actually. 07:01:07 Who closed the insane amount of Mantis items yesterday? 07:01:20 It wasn't me, it was the one-eyed man 07:01:30 All right, I did it! And I'm glad I did it! 07:01:39 Might be due :) 07:03:10 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 07:03:10 -!- Zaba has quit [Changing host] 07:03:10 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 07:03:17 The main disadvantage of the dat/des subfolder split is that I now have to use find to locate des filoes :P 07:04:04 I see the name "variable" and think, "Huh, can't be anything good in there!", and I go scrobbling around in special instead :P 07:04:17 :) 07:04:22 Er "builder" instead 07:04:36 dpeg: That was Johanna, I think. 07:06:40 Yeah, the human rises from the dead and then hurriedly takes a flight to Tasmania for a vacation 07:07:43 Being killed by miasma is a very stressful experience, you know 07:08:00 heh 07:08:13 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 07:08:21 greensnark: Agree. 07:08:24 Is it the miasma? 07:08:47 No, but the create_monster wrapper does not force_pos 07:08:52 Ahhh. 07:08:58 Bugger. 07:10:06 Although ziggurats use the same code, so that's weird 07:12:16 Here: A human (foul pestilence, moderately wounded, poisoned, fire blocked by 07:12:19 a translucent rock wall) 07:12:23 That's a human that needs help 07:12:43 So does my delete cloud wrapper 07:12:52 Placing the vault them immediately &G causes a segfault 07:13:31 * due forgot the bounds checking. 07:14:40 greensnark: I think the only think that'll help him is 'animate dead' :P 07:15:31 Conveniently enough, Kiku is abou tto cast this. 07:15:39 :D 07:16:13 Does negative AC cause you to take extra damage/ I've always wondered. 07:16:13 ely heal other 07:16:28 no 07:16:30 syllogism: If it doesn't die, you win a prize. 07:16:36 do you 07:16:57 No. 07:17:52 heh, wandering water mocassin is attacking a fungus 07:17:56 Surprise! 07:18:39 due: It looks like the Lua is trying to create the zombie before the human has officially snuffed it 07:18:54 Ahhh. 07:18:57 Hm. 07:19:03 So the dungeon builder finds the human sitting there and puts the zombie in Hawaii instead 07:19:04 That is v. annoying. 07:19:22 So the monster_dies trigger should happen after it's actually removed the monster? 07:20:17 Do you want me to commit this so you can fix that? :) 07:20:42 I don't know if there's any code that relies on having the dying monster around so it can do unnatural things with it :P 07:20:53 Hm. 07:20:57 I could teleport the monster first? 07:21:26 That would work, but it would mean the monster's corpse winds up in the White House 07:21:42 "Mr. President a human just teleported in and died in the first bedroom!" 07:21:42 easily fixed 07:22:08 I'll just tell it to delet the corpse at the monster's position. 07:22:20 will cause issues if the human is teleported on top of a human corpse 07:22:21 You could use a timer and activate it the next turn after you're told the monster died 07:22:25 I'm not sure I care enough. 07:22:33 Too much like hard work. 07:22:34 Does anything else use monster_dies and want the old monster? 07:23:16 I guess we could uproot the monster from the grid before telling Lua 07:23:26 hm 07:23:30 lm_trig checks 07:23:32 That would also fix this 07:23:35 local midx = ev:arg1() 07:23:35 local mons = dgn.mons_from_index(midx) 07:23:46 mons_from_index would still work 07:23:49 Okay 07:23:55 But anything using mons_at() would draw a blank 07:24:02 Shoulld be fine. 07:24:09 I'll double check Zonglydrook. 07:25:16 dpeg: in the poll, the question "If you take part in the Crawl tournament: where did you hear about it?", why did you ask "if you take part"? It occurred to me that hearing about it and taking part are two different things ... 07:26:31 Haha, dpeg has been caught out using non-orthogonal criteria! 07:26:36 * greensnark hands bhaak a cookie. 07:26:58 ey cool 07:27:03 notify_dgn_event: Lua error: ...ackages/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/source/dat/clua/iter.lua:556: Point (-2,5) is out of bounds 07:27:06 bhaak: Took you a while, though :P 07:27:29 Sigh 07:27:32 Sleepytime 07:27:36 That poll has practically joined the choir invisible 07:27:54 Remind me to write an in_bounds wrapper. 07:27:57 Why isn't there one? 07:28:07 I'm sure I wrote one already. 07:28:12 Oh, maybe that was for l_dgnbld. 07:28:27 he's the mathematician, he probably has a reason :) 07:28:33 There's always a reason with dpeg. 07:28:36 Goodnight for real, folk. 07:28:58 greensnark: I'm at that question right now and there's an insane amount of "didn't take part but heard about it on ..." answers :) 07:31:18 Poll archeology? :) 07:31:48 greensnark: no, poll clones :) there's a nethack poll following crawl's poll 07:32:48 seems I haven't spammed the internet enough, where were you hiding? ;-) 07:33:24 Oh, that NH poll is still going? :P 07:33:30 I responded to it in my youth 07:33:35 Before I got all this white hair :P 07:33:59 Yeah, I was wondering what happened to the poll results :) 07:34:14 well, I got a bit overwhelmed by work. But I'll close it today 07:35:50 due: If you're still around, uprooting the dead monster makes this work 07:36:10 I wonder what else uses that event 07:37:05 * greensnark checks the royal jelly. 07:41:04 03greensnark * r609e8d3028a8 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-stuff.cc mon-util.cc mon-util.h monster.cc): Remove monster from mgrd before firing death event to Lua (due). 07:42:50 !tell by Thanks for the arena msg fix 07:42:51 greensnark: OK, I'll let by know. 07:43:59 Has someone fixed the invisibility brokenness yet? 07:44:18 greensnark: thanks for finding the bug :) 07:44:18 by: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 07:44:22 !messages 07:44:22 (1/2) dpeg said (1h 14m 45s ago): Sure, especially with your recent changes to silence. 07:44:26 !messages 07:44:26 (1/1) greensnark said (1m 35s ago): Thanks for the arena msg fix 07:44:55 re invisibility, there's not really a bug there, just some strangeness 07:45:20 you need stealth to be able to lose an adjacent monster 07:45:25 Oh? dpeg filed a bug 07:45:36 Oh, that old thing 07:45:43 That should be fixed anyway 07:46:25 there's also the proxPlayer stuff in handle_behaviour, but I'm not sure if that ever actually has any effect 07:47:09 the probabilities in there may not take into account that handle_behaviour can be called quite often per turn 07:47:37 greensnark: what do you mean by "fixed"? 07:48:02 The various fudges to make monsters notice the player when close by 07:48:10 Some of them were mine, I think :P 07:48:28 the proxPlayer stuff has your name, yes 07:48:30 It's been a todo for a long time, though :P 07:48:59 Yeah, the fudges should be tossed 07:49:36 but it doesn't seem to be really broken; a monster losing you due to stealth should probably be messaged so this can be learned 07:49:50 Does it actually use stealth value? 07:50:04 just the skill (one chance in stealth skill / 3) 07:50:09 I see someone fixed sense invisible for friendlies <3 07:50:13 That's also been broken forever :P 07:50:29 yes, that was me playing a SESu in the elven halls with call canine familiar 07:51:04 they attack adjacent enemies now 07:51:09 That's good 07:51:28 Hm, I have to fix the monster pathfinding around trees thing before 0.6 07:51:36 Swamp is really pretty silly with the current state of affairs 07:51:53 But blech, monster movement code :P 07:52:06 I've also made invisibility work against sense invisible monsters: they can't see you if you're far (> 4 distance) away 07:52:24 Sounds good 07:52:25 I hope that's not too much of a nerf for those 07:53:28 the monster pathfinding seems to be quite broken, also with glass and doors 07:54:14 but all I've done is quarantine some of the code into mon-pathfind and mon-movetarget :) 07:54:35 Any refactoring should be an improvement 07:54:50 Every time I look at that code I have to spend a few hours relearning where the major pieces are :P 07:55:40 it seems that a lot of pathfinding code was piled on top of the broken old monster movement code, which makes things a little confusing 07:55:42 In fact, I generally start from world_reacts and work my way from there, because I can never remember the names of the monster action functions :P 07:56:20 oh, there's also the confusion between move (as in turn) and move (as in move) 08:02:38 @?? hydra 08:02:38 hydra (09D) | Speed: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 13 | Health: 39-104 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Damage: 18 per head | Flags: amphibious | Res: 06magic(52), 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 1214. 08:04:19 greensnark: rats (I_ANIMAL) pathfind better than hydra (I_INSECT) 08:04:30 what other monsters are misbehaving in the swamp? 08:04:34 Rupert :P 08:04:38 @??Rupert 08:04:38 Rupert (05@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 16 | Health: 123 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Damage: 21 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(106) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 2993 | Sp: paralyse, confuse, berserker rage. 08:04:47 We should include intelligence in that output 08:05:00 I spectated a game where Rupert was caged by just three trees 08:05:12 He just had to step SW or NE to move around them 08:05:37 yes, he's not doing it for me in wizard mode either... 08:05:39 Instead he stayed there for 10 turns, went berserk, and then lost berserk while the player waited for him :P 08:10:25 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 08:10:40 greensnark: I'll try to fix the pathfinding 08:11:55 by: Awesome, thanks :) 08:12:32 it amuses me to no end that my lua is more successful than due's 08:13:13 TGW: I thought it was your Lua that did the raise-zombie thing? 08:13:48 well, only if it leaves a corpse 08:14:01 due is doing something or other to it but it's broken, apparently 08:15:34 03greensnark * r22cbbebdf0b4 10/crawl-ref/source/ (l_mons.cc scripts/place-population.lua): Make place-population report shapeshifters correctly, and merge hydras and ugly things when counting. 08:15:36 Maybe we should just add support for corpse-gen? 08:15:52 I would appreciate that 08:17:06 how does kiku do it 08:17:16 What does Kiku do? 08:17:20 gives you corpses 08:17:36 You could always programmatically generate corpses 08:18:04 But there was no code to create corpses as items named in .des files 08:18:26 wait the kiku ability now costs only 100 nutrition 08:18:52 and only 2 piety 08:19:13 and you get 5-9 corpses at high invo 08:19:27 Yum-yum 08:19:54 that seems a bit generous :P 08:20:50 is it possible to rename traps in vaults? 08:21:38 hrm, it would still do something when you step on it 08:21:42 back 08:21:47 'lo dpeg 08:21:59 now it's somewhat viable to make a 100+ ac abomination 08:22:04 did you see the lugonu altar? it's pretty much done 08:22:32 dpeg: Ok to add support for generating corpses in .des files 08:22:33 ? 08:24:21 I complain to napkin about the tracker, right? 08:24:34 bhaak: well, we're interested in where *participants* heard about the tournament :) 08:24:41 You ask him for help with the tracker, yes :P 08:24:55 bhaak: that's a different question than asking how word of the tournament was spread 08:25:28 dpeg: Admit it, you used all answers, whether or not they participated :P 08:25:31 greensnark: well, I'm wondering if it's possible that people could be let to delete their own files 08:26:59 03j-p-e-g * r91adc1744692 10/crawl-ref/source/util/FAQ2html.pl: Add a script FAQ2html.pl that translates FAQ.txt into docs/FAQ.html 08:26:59 03j-p-e-g * rcb7e25fd796c 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/FAQ.txt: Tweak FAQ.txt to make it work nicely in html format. 08:27:03 03j-p-e-g * r0bf80e9666d3 10/crawl-ref/docs/FAQ.html: Actually add the generated FAQ.html. 08:27:04 Sounds reasonable 08:27:04 03j-p-e-g * r6be404bd97be 10/crawl-ref/ (docs/FAQ.html source/dat/database/FAQ.txt): Update location of development documentation listed in the FAQ. 08:28:38 greensnark: yes, corpses in des files are okay. I will have to be very observant that we don't get tons of corpses littering vaults "for flavour". 08:28:50 Oh, you get to check vaults for abuse :) 08:29:05 I wanted the occasional Lab furniture vault with a skeleton :P 08:29:37 "corpse in glass"? 08:29:43 No glass! 08:29:51 Just the corpse :P 08:30:03 greensnark: corpses are fine. They could just be overused. On the other hand, we already have very strict policies against overuse of oklobs, fog or glass. 08:30:09 :P 08:30:17 9x9 glass walls, a bit of shallow bloody water in the middle and a rotting corpse 08:30:35 The policy is: "Please avoid overuse of fogs or oklobs by caging them in glass." 08:30:38 We need a vault with blood-spattered glass behind oklobs in clouds of miasma, surrounded with rotting corpses 08:31:39 hey, my vault has fog and a corpse in glass :[ 08:31:52 dpeg: so it was deliberate? and what did you expect to conclude? 08:32:33 bhaak: the tournament has been announced on irc, SA, usenet and some other places 08:32:42 actually you can get over 600 ac abomination though that's not quite possible outside wizmode. How many turns does it take for a corpse to rot away? 08:32:47 TGW: yes, it is a very good vault for these reasons alone 08:33:36 I wonder how far jpeg is from making a HTML out of the manual. 08:34:04 Add a pre tag before and after and call it a day :P 08:34:28 We should use something like restructured text 08:34:30 and cerebov still killed it :P 08:34:32 Or POD, since we have Perl 08:34:54 or LaTeX :) 08:35:11 Or Latex, yeah, since it's not a build-critical thing 08:35:22 And dpeg has a latex fetish :) 08:35:36 I know, I've seen his pstricks! 08:35:55 greensnark: I had a go at ReST once but not enough time. 08:36:07 I've never used it myself ;P 08:36:12 bhaak: the pstricks have been generated by a package :P 08:36:13 I've used POD 08:36:42 Paul proposed using markup languages. 08:37:03 * Zaba proposes troff and hides 08:37:20 troff and troll! 08:37:29 dpeg: really? I thought the overflowed bars where from a human 08:37:48 bhaak: there is a package bardiag.sty. 08:38:13 Which makes drawing bar diagrams very convenient in Latex. 08:38:36 i prefer R :) 08:38:41 R? 08:38:51 the open source S :) 08:39:04 http://www.r-project.org/ 08:39:31 Eek, dpeg doesn't know R?! 08:39:36 Even I've heard of R :P 08:39:38 These are completely different things. 08:39:51 greensnark: I am acquainted with the letter R for 30 years now. 08:40:08 Oh! 08:40:24 I think you have 3 years on me 08:40:32 R seems to be an open source equivalent for SigmaPlot or SPSS which is very desiarable, of course. 08:40:42 Either you learned languages late, or I'm pretty close to old-fogeyhood myself ;P 08:40:49 greensnark: prenatal education! 08:42:49 with maximum preparation a 400+ ac abomination is possible ingame 08:43:13 Why do we allow such ridiculously high AC for twisted resurrection? :P 08:43:24 Cap it at 40 and call it a day :P 08:43:35 At least stepdown at 40 08:43:38 yes 08:43:40 +1 08:44:04 it wasn't really possible until kiku started gifting cadavers 08:44:11 Of course, I still wouldn't use twisted resurrection unless kilobyte's idea is implemented 08:44:25 Where the corpses drag themselves towards each other and merge 08:44:38 0.7 on that :) 08:44:42 Does Kiku drop all the corpses in one heap? 08:44:47 no, all around you 08:44:50 you've to apportate them :P 08:45:03 Ok, I'll wait for 0.7 and superior twisted resurrection :P 08:45:07 and kill the fungi with refrigeration 08:45:17 I can't even be bothered to wield chunks for simulacrum :P 08:45:18 or maybe you can surround yourself with allies 08:46:14 kiku ability + corpse rot seems pretty powerful :P 08:51:09 syllogism: I made that character, it was pretty fun 08:51:38 it was a warper with pp and apport 08:54:58 dpeg, hey, sup? 08:55:40 dpeg, I got a new tsumego for you thats supposed to be "somewhat challenging" ;) 08:55:48 dpeg, http://justplaygo.com/images/uploads/problem20.png (black to play) 08:59:35 cbus: Yesterday, we had a look at the problem. 08:59:55 cbus: cannot open link :/ 09:00:09 me neither 09:05:15 http://justplaygo.com/index.php/C5/ 09:05:16 can't? 09:08:52 03by * ra9af525338b3 10/crawl-ref/source/losparam.cc: Make trees and plants block opacity_no_trans. 09:08:53 03by * raf55d9e7e9d2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-pathfind.cc mon-stuff.cc): Hack monster pathfinding to respect opacity_no_trans. 09:10:24 Something knocks down a tree! <3 09:11:19 Something shouts "timber"! You die... 09:11:25 by: awesome 09:11:44 Yay, pathfinding fix <3 09:12:04 (I wasn't involved in knocking down trees, just testing how the Lernaen hydra dealt with the changes) 09:12:25 it still doesn't spawn anywhere, does it 09:12:51 It does 09:12:57 thing I've got the line I was looking for, question is what to do about it... 09:12:57 Only one Swamp vault uses it, though 09:13:11 should be a chance for it to spawn on the orb, with the orb chamber filled with trees 09:13:14 greensnark: that's okay, rarity as with Murray 09:13:19 @?? the lernaean hydra 09:13:20 the 27-headed Lernaean hydra (08D) | Speed: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 30 | Health: 150 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Damage: 18 | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(120), 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 7599. 09:13:25 since the greying of out-of-range spells is a feature, killing if for the sake of spellhighlighting seems...silly. 09:13:26 hey someone gave it more hp :P 09:13:30 It's likely to give players a nasty surprise when they do get it :P 09:13:47 I look forward to the first splat :P 09:13:54 Might be a few months though :P 09:13:57 !lm * uniq=~lernaean 09:14:01 !lg * place=swamp:5 s=-killer 09:14:21 Grimm got the buggy version today :/ 09:14:56 there should be a swamp vault with a lernaen hydra simulacrum 09:15:13 that would instakill anyone without rc :P 09:15:19 :P 09:15:31 3d30 x 27 + normal damage :P 09:15:31 03greensnark * r7b71f78f9369 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/builder/uniques.des dungeon.cc): [597] Fix uniques not being placeable on encompass levels (Murray could not be generated). 09:15:53 5-headed hydra simulacrum is quite enough to instakill in my experience 09:16:14 ...maybe tighter intergration? add rangecheck as an (optional) check in spell_is_useless, thus out-of-range spells adopt useless coloring... maybe? 09:16:24 3. [2010-02-07] Grimm the Convoker (L19 SESu) killed the 27-headed Lernaean hydra on turn 63805. (Swamp:5) 09:16:24 302 games for * (place=swamp:5): 1x a giant brown frog zombie, 1x a very large slime creature, 1x eith's ghost, 1x glassbeat's ghost, 1x a swamp drake, 1x Norris, 1x a five-headed hydra simulacrum, 1x a large slime creature, 1x a giant brown frog, 1x a giant blowfly, 1x a death drake, 1x a spectral eight-headed hydra, 1x a ten-headed hydra, 1x an insubstantial wisp, 1x a 14-headed hydra, 1x an ice... 09:16:46 would help consolidate some otherwise rather disparate code, and puts me in a better position to handle it "properly"... 09:17:00 that first point is almost worth it on it's own... 09:17:08 saving for a trove or blowing all the money in a bazaar? 09:17:21 zzzz 4 the 27-headed Lernaean hydra simulacra 09:17:22 Can we make Murray more common :P 09:17:24 I could probably move that artifact check into spell_is_useless, too... 09:17:29 Textmode: sounds good 09:17:30 certainly fits. 09:17:34 blow it, the trove will be gone anyway before you have the money 09:17:41 by: sadly 09:17:46 syllogism: Hot :P 09:17:47 but new troves will be in soonish 09:17:57 Maybe I should make the Lernaean hydra a regular hydra again :P 09:18:00 dpeg: little worried about overstepping my bounds, is all :P 09:18:01 greensnark: is Murray eligible for creation by nowß 09:18:07 @?? the Lernaean hydra simulacrum 09:18:07 unknown monster: "the Lernaean hydra simulacrum" 09:18:15 dpeg: Yes 09:18:17 Textmode: improving the code is good 09:18:30 0.07 Murrays per Vestibule :P 09:18:32 greensnark: then it's trivial to make him less rare. Just tweak the WEIGHT. 09:18:40 I guess the worst that can happen is that the patch gets tossed back to me again... 09:18:50 What do we want the chances of Murray to be? 09:18:55 the 27-headed Lernaean hydra simulacrum bites the stone giant for 11! 09:18:55 the 27-headed Lernaean hydra simulacrum freezes the stone giant! 09:18:55 The stone giant dies! 09:19:28 greensnark: 1/6 perhaps? 09:19:29 What is the HD of the simulacrum? 09:19:35 30 :P 09:19:41 Nasty :P 09:19:51 dammit geany! I said no tabs! 09:19:52 I could make it leave a vanilla hydra corpse instead 09:20:01 it's not really a problem 09:20:05 It'd still get its full complement of heads 09:20:12 won't the simulacra disappear pretty quick 09:20:17 Yes 09:20:25 And the chunks also rot pretty quick 09:20:33 So it's not really exploitable 09:20:40 plus no one uses the spell :P 09:21:35 argh, maybe I'll just make a trigger to switch tabs -> spaces on commit... 09:21:58 The 27-headed Lernaean hydra evaporates and reforms as a boggart! 09:22:03 hd 30? 09:22:11 @??the Lernaean hydra 09:22:11 the 27-headed Lernaean hydra (08D) | Speed: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 30 | Health: 150 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Damage: 18 | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(120), 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 7599. 09:22:34 It probably couldn't find a suitable target :P 09:22:40 Did you have to use vulnerability? 09:22:51 The 27-headed Lernaean hydra evaporates and reforms as a human! 09:22:57 no, but that was a lucky roll 09:23:22 The 27-headed Lernaean hydra evaporates and reforms as a quicksilver dragon! 09:23:28 At last, eh :P 09:24:06 The 27-headed Lernaean hydra evaporates and reforms as a goblin! 09:25:11 I will need to tighten up spell_is_useless, in that case, since it'll start controlling what you can actually cast...unless, Z (vs. z) lets you cast anyway... 09:25:27 (probablly still worth tightening it up, though) 09:26:16 you can pass a flag for colouring vs disallowing 09:26:30 dpeg: Looks like I can't get any better than a 10% chance of Murray 09:27:37 And Murray is the only unique eligible for Hell apart from old man Geryon 09:27:38 by: yeah, I'm kinda hoping not to have to though, because then I'd probably have to start bluring the line between the menu code and the highlighting code... 09:28:00 Wasn't it possible to meet Margery in Hell? 09:28:07 In previous versions 09:28:14 !lg * Hell killer=uniq s=killer 09:28:15 One game for * (Hell killer=uniq): 1x Antaeus 09:28:16 greensnark: ah, this may be because we throttle unique chances for underpopulated levels. 09:28:19 10% is good. 09:28:38 dpeg: Yes, dungeon.cc only allows 10% chance of trying to pick a unique in Hell 09:29:17 the lernaean hydra seems to attack once per turn 09:29:17 greensnark: 1/10 Murrays is ok 09:29:30 syllogism: How old is your code 09:29:39 lol, I accidentally made it "if(spell_is_useful) grey = true;" ^_^ 09:29:43 2-3 days 09:30:24 Take latest :P 09:30:48 dpeg, just a quick question, what do you do about a keima corner enclosure on hoshi? :D 09:30:51 I fixed it in 453197072 09:31:02 I broke it when changing its size and species :P 09:31:19 cbus: 4-4 + 3-6? 09:31:42 yeah 09:32:06 3-3 and 4-3 are standard 09:32:16 3-3 vs 3-6 only yields a ko? 09:32:38 naked, yes 09:32:59 also, this is unfortunately not ##crawl-go. Yet. :) 09:33:07 dpeg, hehe, ok :) 09:33:34 !lm * uniq=~lernaean -2 09:33:40 2. [2010-01-29] 78291 the Scorcher (L20 DGFE) killed the 27-headed Lernaean hydra on turn 84103. (Swamp:5) 09:33:49 actually, i don't think this check does anything my highlighter doesn't already do... 09:35:27 would anyone complain if I tried to consolidate coloring in the bookread, memorisation, and casting screens? (particularly the bright blue tint that appears in books) 09:36:28 Textmode: go ahead 09:36:44 but note that visual distinction between the screens is not necessarily bad 09:37:49 Hmm... 09:38:10 by: excellent comment on the seasonal uniques. 09:41:30 death channel seems to work on everything but the Lernaean Hydra 09:49:26 The robe of misfortune sure is a hot topic. 09:49:54 Some on SA thinks the swamp is shockingly dangerous :P 09:50:12 And apparently Snake Pit is a lot easier 09:50:19 Are they playing b26 or something :P 09:50:47 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:38 open spaces "freaked him" so he went to do Vaults instead :P 09:51:49 SA? 09:51:56 ??sa 09:51:56 sa[1/4]: 0.5 Thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3155652&pagenumber=1#lastpost 09:53:00 Cannot trust a random player report. Even worse, it can happen that the whole player base is organised in group thinking. Then you can't trust anyone. But mostly, there's a little grain of truth in all the rumbling. You simply have to find it between the lines. 09:54:06 _You kill the orc! The orc hits the toadstool with an uncursed runed orcish scimitar! 09:54:10 _The toadstool is destroyed! You hit the orc. You feel guilty. "You will pay for your transgression, mortal!" 09:54:15 What is going on here? 09:54:22 it was distracted? 09:54:34 oh fedhas 09:54:38 The orc didn't want to die until it settled scores with the toadstool that killed its father 09:54:40 I don't thikn so. A bunch of plain orcs. 09:54:50 Oh, these were two different orcs? 09:55:13 ah, I rarely have this 09:55:15 why did it hit that toadstool 09:55:24 when they attack my toadstools, I get the blame 09:55:36 erm, forget it folks 09:55:42 pain dagger :) 09:55:53 fedhas doesn't like necromancy? 09:56:01 yes 09:56:07 is there a wizcmd to make an item with -tele? 09:56:12 z - the dagger of Termination (weapon) {pain, rPois rC+ Stlth+} 09:56:21 my only source of rP 09:56:28 Textmode: just make =oStasis? 09:56:33 Why didn't he get upset when you killed that orc with it 09:56:33 does fed care if you wield it? 09:56:58 TGW: no 09:57:19 greensnark: I still had mana for that kill :) 09:57:21 syllogism: thanks 10:07:55 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:00 78291 the Covered (L4 MDFi), slain by an unseen horror on D:3, with 321 points after 1882 turns and 0:03:07. 10:09:17 !lg * killer=~unseen horror s=place 10:10:06 888 games for * (killer=~unseen horror): 214x D:10, 182x D:11, 97x D:12, 81x D:9, 69x Abyss, 68x D:8, 54x D:13, 28x D:7, 27x D:14, 17x D:6, 10x D:16, 9x D:15, 5x D:3, 5x D:18, 4x D:5, 4x D:4, 3x Lair:1, 3x Vault:1, 1x Lair:3, 1x Orc:2, 1x D:19, 1x Vault:5, 1x Lair:2, 1x Lair:7, 1x Vault:6, 1x D:17 10:10:25 !lg * D:3 killer=unseen horror s=cv 10:10:26 5 games for * (D:3 killer=unseen horror): 2x 0.1, 1x 0.3, 1x 0.5, 1x 0.6-a 10:10:27 syllogism: could be a vault 10:10:37 don't think so 10:12:29 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:03 pointless_: Hi there! 10:14:04 We should fix monster gen for 0.7 10:14:08 03greensnark * r90cdd10e897a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (actor.cc actor.h fight.cc): Restore active armour training to 1.5 per successful train attempt -- went to 1 when light/heavy training distinction was removed (78291). 10:14:09 Hi 10:14:14 Move to a saner system for picking monsters 10:14:34 seconded. 10:14:39 'lo pointless_ 10:14:41 greensnark: would you add it to the 0.7 list? 10:14:46 Ok 10:16:45 dpeg: ballistomycetes 10:17:21 pointless_: did not test your branch yet :/ 10:17:29 I apologise. 10:17:34 oh well 10:17:42 Playing Fedhasites and Cheibriadites only these days, though. 10:17:51 !lg . 10:17:51 787. pointless the Gelid (L27 DSCj), worshipper of Fedhas, escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2010-02-07, with 1510151 points after 156057 turns and 7:48:50. 10:17:57 where is your fedhas win dpeg? 10:17:59 pointless_: if you think status quo is good, let's merge the branch. 10:18:06 !whereis dpeg 10:18:07 878. dpeque the Grave Robber (L1 KeNe), quit the game on D:1 on 2010-02-07, with 20 points after 0 turns and 0:00:04. 10:18:12 @whereis dpeg 10:18:13 dpeg the Destroyer (L15 HEWz), a worshipper of Fedhas, is currently on Snake:2 after 63031 turns. 10:18:20 pointless_: I am not that good. 10:18:40 One of me Cb's died to ballisto explosion, btw :) 10:19:01 I imagine you couldn't run away very well... 10:19:07 indeed :P 10:19:30 but it was my fault, even with old ballistos 10:19:46 pointless_: again, I am serious about merging. 10:19:49 Do it! :) 10:20:07 I'm going to I just have to make sure it's not completely broken in tiles 10:20:42 well it's definitely doesn't work in tiles, but I have to make sure it doesn't crash the game or anything 10:22:53 pointless_: ah, thanks for thinking of tiles. 10:23:06 pointless_: Fedhas is in a very good shape by now. 10:38:30 Are we on track for March 1 :P 10:38:46 greensnark: sure! All critical items are taking care of 10:38:49 What about Che Guevara, is he ready for the glorious revolution? 10:38:53 I mean Cheibriados 10:39:13 CheibeBrot needs some help. 10:39:26 But the god is fun, at last. (Wasn't so in the beginning.) 10:39:41 So tiles, Cb and testing feedback are the only things holding up 0.6? 10:39:45 Yay, we're almost there 10:39:47 yes 10:39:54 well, and bugs 10:40:03 Yeah, bugs :/ 10:40:43 Are we planning to branch after tiles and Cb are in? 10:40:55 Enne: good idea 10:41:13 !seen henryci 10:41:13 I felt like 0.5 branched late (relative to the release date). 10:41:13 I last saw henryci at Fri Feb 5 19:17:41 2010 UTC (1d 21h 23m 32s ago) quitting with message Client Quit. 10:41:28 I wanted two more bits for Ctrl-O :) 10:41:39 I'd also like an early branch, preferably before mid-Feb :) 10:41:55 Although it looks like most devs aren't putting in breaking changes on master 10:41:56 Cb has three issues: (1) Must be able to ponder on ego armous. (2) Wrath is too timid. (3) Piety gain must depend on your slowness. (4) In principle, with (3) you can scum piety. 10:42:04 Of these, only (1) and (3) are really important. 10:42:43 Is the AM class release-ready? 10:42:51 I never played one. 10:42:55 Likewise 10:42:58 But I trust Jude. 10:43:13 due worked on general archery improvements, no? 10:43:28 What's the special starting trick for the AM class? 10:43:33 well, we got the patch by cryo, then mayhem ensued and Jude sorted it out 10:43:44 You finish chopping the butterfly corpse into pieces. 10:43:45 _You see here a chunk of butterfly flesh. 10:44:15 Textmode: what's so odd about that? Tasty butterflies, should be part of every cuisine. 10:44:20 Ah, book of Brands 10:44:25 taste the rainbow? 10:44:29 Yeah, that should be a useful start 10:44:35 Cause fear is a nice touch 10:44:46 Bit pricey though 10:44:59 Damn butterflies 10:45:05 miscast? :P 10:45:08 The Changelog will have 20 kb :) 10:45:19 Butterflies are like kiwis in POWDER 10:45:29 The only difference is that I can safely murder butterflies 10:45:36 Whereas kiwis would usually stomp on my face when I tried :P 10:45:42 In the early levels at least :P 10:48:37 a single set of kiku cadavers can take an azure jelly from 70 max hp to 417 :P 10:49:02 Are you getting dreams of azure jelly world domination again 10:49:10 I thought you already did that 10:49:17 And the dungeon thanked you when you left :P 10:49:48 syllogism offers his blood to perform dark rituals 10:50:00 I was testing that but a royal jelly walking over some heavy corpses reminded me of it :P 10:50:00 can I make another whiny request for vaults? 10:50:10 it would help if "good_item weapon ego:foo" worked 10:50:51 NetHack's level editor allowed you to specify large boxes, and further specify whether they contained cats :P 10:51:04 I don't think that feature was used anywhere :P 10:51:11 I wasn't* 10:51:19 Nethack has a level editor?? 10:51:21 Although I guess they used it to place the castle wand in its chest 10:51:29 Yes 10:51:36 Well, level compiler, sorry 10:51:41 Not an editor program 10:51:55 Oh, ok. 10:59:57 03j-p-e-g * rf954f2533370 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/player/hair/ (knot_red.png ponytail_yellow.png): Tweak two player doll hair tiles. 10:59:58 03j-p-e-g * r53e07349767e 10/crawl-ref/source/tilereg.cc: Indent player editor command list. 11:00:01 03j-p-e-g * ra031a2d6c8de 10/crawl-ref/source/ (spells4.cc spells4.h spl-cast.cc): Abort Fulsome Distillation without costs if there aren't any corpses. 11:00:03 03j-p-e-g * r02be416e7305 10/crawl-ref/source/spells4.cc: Use menu colours for colouring corpses in the distillation prompt. 11:04:35 03pointless_ * r1b692010864a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (15 files): Merge ballistomycete changes from spore_trails 11:04:39 yay 11:04:44 03pointless_ * r09cbcdb67529 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://crawl-ref.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/crawl-ref/crawl-ref into local_master 11:04:45 All hail the loose ballisto! 11:07:20 -!- Ero_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:01 Hi Eronarn! 11:10:43 there's the "nethack map construction helper" http://www.maroon.dti.ne.jp/youkan/nethack/nhmapcon.html although it isn't feature complete AFAIR 11:13:29 03greensnark * r2bafbfdd3159 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dungeon.cc mon-place.cc mon-place.h): Disable bands for OOD monsters (due). 11:13:32 hi dpeg 11:14:20 noo 11:15:20 does IOOD make any noise? 11:15:24 !lg * killer=skeletal warrior s=place cv=~0.6 11:15:25 20 games for * (killer=skeletal warrior cv=~0.6): 7x Abyss, 2x D:12, 2x D:13, 1x Vault:1, 1x Vault:4, 1x Crypt:1, 1x D:1, 1x D:11, 1x D:7, 1x D:17, 1x D:14, 1x D:15 11:15:36 dpeg: didn't seem like it 11:15:43 bad bug 11:15:50 it should be louder than fireball 11:16:06 it should make whooshing noises when moving 11:16:33 It should hand monsters near it refreshing mugs of black coffee :) 11:16:48 what's going to happen to player OOD? 11:17:24 by: I'd start with slashing damage by a lot 11:17:24 Hmm, well the casting menu function is considerably shorter... 11:17:34 maybe not by a lot 11:17:40 greensnark: darkgrey coffee 11:17:41 lowering hp and making it very noisy helps quite a bit 11:17:45 @?? orb of destruction 11:17:45 orb of destruction (16*) | Speed: 30 | HD: 5 | Health: 50 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Flags: 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 04hellfire+++, 12cold+++, 10elec++, 09poison+++, 08acid+++ | XP: 0. 11:17:48 maybe ev too 11:18:02 ughhh, more noisy spells/ 11:18:11 lowering hp is a mistake, I'd INCREASE it to effectively infinity 11:18:18 but make monsters not target it 11:18:42 biting a ball of disintegration is bad for your teeth :p 11:18:45 Unless they can shoot through it, it's still very useful to act as moving cover 11:18:58 shooting through it is a good idea 11:19:08 Players fire off one IOOD and then shoot bolts through it, while being protected by it from things like crystal spear 11:19:13 I think due to monster AI, it's very hard to balance IOOD as both player and monster spell 11:20:09 03pointless_ * ra4b097865af7 10/crawl-ref/source/abl-show.cc: Give a more informative message when Fedhas' spores fail. 11:20:21 Ero_: it makes a lot of sense that IOOD is very noisy, noß 11:21:03 kilobyte: I think monsters should be able to attack the orb. 11:21:29 Think of it as an interception -- so it's not on the trajectory anymore, hence useless. Not biting of balls. 11:21:57 I say this because it seems easiest gameplay-wise. 11:22:08 melee attacks seem just wrong 11:22:12 other solutions may require much more logic on behalf of the monsters 11:22:22 dpeg: there are issues with monsters meleeing the orb; it puts inappropriate focus on the mechanics of the speed system 11:22:45 why should it be a significant difference if you shoot at range 2 or range 3? 11:22:47 I wonder if implementing projectiles as monsters wasn't a mistake. 11:22:50 -!- kats has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:23:26 Hmm. How do I revert back to a specific point again? Not using these git commands often enough to memorize them yet :P 11:23:29 kilobyte: could be, now the box is open 11:23:44 I feel kind of silly asking this, but what's the actually functional way to say dgn.create_item(x, y, "quarterstaff ego:brand") ? 11:23:48 03Enne * r8cdc8ec710e9 10/crawl-ref/ (7 files in 3 dirs): [470] Fix opaque white shallow water in tiles. 11:24:03 brand being an actual brand... it yells at me about how brand isn't an ego 11:24:05 dpeg: most of the code can be moved to some other mechanism 11:24:14 and without the quotes it expects a ) after quarterstaff or something 11:24:16 I'd love some feedback on the issues raised in dcss:feedback:magic:spell:iood; currently I still prefer IOOD as monster only 11:25:12 it's a fun spell though 11:25:12 dpeg: does your HEWz have IOOD yet? 11:25:25 by: I am using IOOD now for the first time, and it kills everything easily. 11:25:26 -!- kats has joined ##crawl-dev 11:25:35 how many things actually use the count returned by scan_artefacts()? 11:26:00 syllogism: of course, and I love the messy dungeon it creates. Feels overpowered right now, though. 11:26:00 please have a look at that wiki page, so you can perhaps comment on the issues raised 11:26:06 by: yes, will do, of course 11:27:03 the initial energy can be changed 11:28:07 it already loses one move worth, since otherwise it would appear to move 4 squares on the first turn 11:28:21 Also, does anyone feel Annihilations can be found too often just on the floor? 11:28:31 (1 square by the virtue of being spawned not in the player's square, then 3 for the turn) 11:28:32 perhaps 11:28:48 though usually i've just bought it 11:28:48 can we replace MST_LICH_IV's iron shot with IOOD? 11:29:01 by: should I randomize the initial energy? 11:29:13 kilobyte: randomizing initial energy more would be good re the speed objection, yes 11:29:52 a lich would do 8d16 damage with it 11:29:54 by: giving it to liches and perhaps even foo annihilators could be good, right now only some pan lords have it 11:29:59 kilobyte: I was imagining the very orb to be like a ball lightning. And people tried to alter the trajectories of these (with success depending on the report you get). So monsters attacking the orb is not out of the question, for ,e. 11:30:11 syllogism: how much do they do with iron shot? 11:30:12 -!- kast has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:44 I can see IOOD work quite well in Zot:5 11:30:45 3d44 11:30:49 (for liches) 11:31:27 syllogism: that seems like a good replacement, then; similar max damage, but a little less variance, right? 11:31:30 ancient lich 8d19 11:31:39 by: perhaps, it also always hits at close range 11:31:57 but need not hit at all at large range 11:32:02 yes 11:32:10 you can blink out of the way, noß 11:33:10 Can we rename it to IEO 11:33:16 Iskenderun's Explosive Orb 11:33:54 -!- kats has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:33:57 Orb of Destruction sounds a little boring 11:33:57 sure, why not? 11:34:09 the ancient lich blew itself up with the orb :P 11:34:15 I'd like to keep the Iskerendun in there. 11:34:17 by casting it twice in a row 11:34:18 syllogism: success! 11:34:28 by: the '[' screen looks ugly with message joining 11:34:53 Monsters casting OOD should check that there's no coaligned orb too close to them 11:35:11 jarpiain: it shouldn't be joining anymore 11:35:15 greensnark: yes, they should be all intelligent enough for this 11:35:19 ok 11:35:34 * dpeg envisions new a portal vault: Iskerendun's Ballet. 11:35:45 jarpiain: if you find other problems, can you add to dcss:feedback:interface:messagewindow on the wiki, please? 11:36:01 -!- kast has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:36:21 -!- kats has joined ##crawl-dev 11:37:24 syllogism: how do you test monster spell damage? wizard mode? 11:37:34 debug 11:37:43 &M ancient lich spells:orb_of_destruction 11:38:07 03pointless_ * rc18bf312b3cb 10/crawl-ref/source/main.cc: Give Fedhasites a message about not walking through trees. 11:38:57 Did someone fix the odds of Xom turning a plant into an oklob? 11:39:01 no 11:39:47 Monsters should be able to cross known shafts (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=731) by jpeg 11:40:42 Hmm...if I'm wearing a Amulet of stasis, why is 'scan_artefacts(ARTP_PREVENT_TELEPORTATION, false)' returning 0? 11:40:54 artefacts? 11:41:28 hmm, I think I follow you... 11:41:33 What should I be using? 11:42:16 stasis_blocks_effect 11:42:33 ofcause, this is the check I pulled from the casting menu, does that mean it never worked? 11:42:45 nice, had an ancient lich shoot a bolt of cold through its orb 11:43:14 Yeah, tracers can figure damage done to thingsi n the way 11:43:23 Although that's apparently buggy for throw icicle 11:43:26 :P 11:43:37 I should check throw icicle 11:45:45 so...I have to expressly check for both artefacts, and the amulet of stasis? 11:46:44 or add a convenience function that checks whether teleportation is possible? 11:46:46 If this is for blocking teleport only, you could create a new function that does both checks 11:46:54 Yes, what by said 11:47:31 03by * r01aa19db9325 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-spll.h: Give some liches IOOD. 11:47:36 ooh 11:47:38 -!- kast has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:05 I'm more surprised that hasn't been done already... 11:48:16 Stasis is new 11:49:05 If you're checking both effects, check for randarts blocking teleport first 11:49:16 Since stasis will produce noises and auto-id when it acts :P 11:49:48 There's already an item_blocks_teleport function 11:50:01 Which checks teleport blocking and stasis 11:50:03 it menu highlight code, it can't act because the player hasn't actually done anything... 11:50:10 -!- elly has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:50:52 Ah, then you need to pass an extra flag to stasis_blocks_amulet to check whether the amulet is identified 11:51:12 -!- kats has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:51:30 Does the % screen list "teleports prevented"? 11:52:35 greensnark: thats still not right, it shouldn't highlight as useless unless the player *knows* its an amulet of stasis... 11:53:05 Textmode: Like I said, pass an extra flag to check if the amulet is identified 11:53:34 I'd have to create such a parameter 11:53:38 Yes 11:53:53 calc_unid is what it's usually called n other places 11:54:20 i'd rather make a function to test for *any* blocking item... 11:54:38 Any item blocking teleport, correct 11:54:46 Isn't that what we were discussing here? 11:54:50 alternately, I could patch the artefact function to also account for things like the amulet, or would that break things? 11:55:22 % really doesn't need to show lev 11:55:28 there's a status and it's an ability 11:55:42 again, ah, there is only Rnd and Ctrl Teleport 11:55:46 --again 11:55:59 Textmode: Don't make scan_randarts check stasis 11:56:08 Stasis is very different from the prevents-teleport property 11:56:31 Mostly because stasis makes noises when it acts :P 11:56:49 the sort of noise that wakes stuff up? 11:56:53 Yes 11:56:55 huh 11:57:44 TGW: agreed 11:57:57 I think % could be better with "Teleport: [suppressd | random | controlled]" 11:58:05 well 11:58:22 yeah 11:58:52 and if ctele is being merged with cfly.. 11:59:01 03greensnark * r500125851722 10/crawl-ref/source/xom.cc: Make Xom less likely to polymorph plants, since Lair and Shoals now have lots of plants. 12:00:02 -!- eith has quit [] 12:00:09 display "cFly" or "cTele" if only one is up, but instead of having slots for both you could just say "Control: +" 12:00:12 spell noise for conjurations is = spell level, right? 12:00:39 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:49 kilobyte: yes (casting noise) 12:00:57 kilobyte: the beams also make noise I think 12:02:29 on the starting and ending point 12:02:42 wait... the beam code does that, right? 12:03:09 there's a noise field with the ZAP_* 12:03:10 if so, IOOD will already have the noise since it calls the beam code to do actual damage 12:03:35 aren't there special cases, eg. for Fireball? 12:03:51 kilobyte: I am sure my IOODs didn't wake anything so far 12:04:30 ZAP_IOOD has noise field 0 12:04:56 not sure it's not a dummy zap in some form 12:05:19 it is dummy, and 0 means "default" 12:06:20 why doesn't IOOD disintegrate corpses? 12:06:33 that way the spell would be worse for some gods :) 12:07:02 it blows them up? 12:07:02 dpeg: uhm, it does? 12:07:03 usually 12:07:39 okay 12:07:48 just wondered because I thought I got a corpse 12:08:09 haven't you seen chunks flying all over the place? :P 12:08:11 it should blow player chunks out of you 12:08:24 twinge: hey? 12:08:52 centaur is worth 111 exp, human is 264 12:08:59 by: it's consistent with monsters: there's blood but not actual chunks until the target actually dies 12:08:59 03greensnark * r426c914a6ebe 10/crawl-ref/source/ (8 files): Make "oStasis behave more consistently with ARTP_PREVENT_TELEPORT (Textmode). 12:09:07 human have variable hd 12:09:17 oh, I should stop trusting gretell 12:09:33 greensnark: didn't have to do that, you know :P 12:09:35 kilobyte: yes; does IOOD killing you actually spread chunks? :) 12:09:45 that one was like 537 though 12:09:49 huh 12:10:24 by: there's a different death type (KILLED_BY_DISINT), but it only affects the death message and Henzell's logs 12:10:36 by: actual chunks would be pretty moot :p 12:11:44 Shoo, spider. I am not a suitable frame for you web... 12:11:46 kilobyte: there is a Xom effect that resurrects you =) 12:11:57 oo 12:15:05 dpeg: cool. We lack corpses for many player races, though. 12:15:23 syllogism: ok, perhaps it was only talked bout 12:15:25 dpeg: but we can add these; the only problem would be tiles crap 12:15:49 dpeg: oo as in that would be funny 12:16:10 he does resurrect you 12:16:23 kilobyte: language! 12:16:52 "Oh my, that was a funny toy. I want more of that!" :) 12:17:00 indeed, I shouldn't use such naughty words as "tiles" :-p 12:17:33 When can we get rid of the console version? That's an 0.7 feature, right? ;) 12:17:52 sigh 12:18:02 At least there is concensus on the common enemy. 12:18:03 I hope. 12:18:51 player races without corpses: halfling, spriggan, kenku, demigod, demonspawn. The last two can technically be any of other humanoid races. 12:20:30 are there other Item effects that disable spells? 12:20:32 easy solution: let's axe halflings! Spriggans can come in 0.7 unless you shoot down my Forest idea. Someone mentioned demonspawn monsters too. 12:20:58 bird-brain corpses can be fun (tastes like chicken!) 12:22:55 03pointless_ * r08300701a056 10/crawl-ref/source/godwrath.cc: Use the circles version of Fedhas' oklob retribution more often 12:23:05 03pointless_ * rf40811b84585 10/crawl-ref/source/ouch.cc: Make Fedhas congratulate you on dying. 12:23:14 Hah. 12:23:45 dpeg: Are you on board with changing Fedhas' anti-necromancy conduct? 12:23:55 pointless_: no, please tell me 12:24:19 The idea is for Fedhas to only hate specific spells that disrupt the natural flwo of decomposition, rather than Necromancy in general 12:24:22 apparently there was some discussion about changing it to be anti-necromancy that affects corpses - so no animate dead, no spells using chunks instead 12:24:34 I can get the list due, myself, and others came up with, 1 sec 12:24:44 pointless_: that last commit is amazing 12:25:09 indeed 12:25:10 03greensnark * re0ae6c579d8e 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-spll.h: [585] Fix aquamancers firing icicles through friendlies. 12:25:13 :) 12:25:33 Animate Dead, Animate Skeleton, Fulsome Distillation, Simulacrum, Sublimation of Blood, Twisted Ressurection, Necromutation, Cig's Degeneration. 12:25:44 pointless_: there are pros (fits the flavour better) and cons (more complicated to describe and remember). 12:25:52 I don't have problems with it. 12:25:59 remembering won't be hard, because they'll be color coded in game 12:26:10 :) 12:26:12 ok I'll go ahead with it 12:26:14 yes, that's okay 12:26:18 Text: =) 12:26:22 hey, that breaks my vault :[ 12:26:23 also if not in textmode? 12:26:36 TGW: suffer. 12:26:59 dpeg: hmm? 12:27:01 dpeg: I'll look at tiles, I'd guess the conduct coloring already works there but I haven't really played tiles in a long time 12:27:02 TGW: You could give necro books that specifically have 1 or more of those spells 12:27:07 TGW: it breaks your vault? 12:27:16 oh, that vault. 12:27:21 Text: His Lug vault based on giving you what your-- yeah 12:28:22 Highlight is working now, but now I seem to have broken the range testing on the casting menu... 12:29:01 greensnark: You asked about AM earlier; I've played a couple of HEAM's of F, gooood fun. Unnerfed poisonous ammo! Cause Fear is a life-saver against hydras. 12:29:16 potion mimics should shatter and explode 12:29:37 03kilobyte * rb850c5b4acc9 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-project.cc: Randomize IOOD's initial move, slowing it a bit so there's no guaranteed 12:29:38 greensnark: Worth noting is that I used the branding spells on melee weapons a lot. 12:29:39 03kilobyte * r026c81c21b6d 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-project.cc: Assign the IOOD's final beam loudness so it causes noise on hit. 12:29:41 From SA: I found a cool little portal full of kobolds and gnolls with electrocution weapons. At first I was disappointed because I thought maybe the weapons were supposed to be the reward, which would've been useless to my monk, but one random orc was carrying 8 gain dex potions and 5 gain strength potions. I dunno what occasion he was saving them for, but I'm glad he did." 12:29:56 Keskitalo: Nice 12:30:00 greensnark: haha 12:30:13 TGW: ouch, if a mimic gets hit with something that destroys its potion, we're fucked 12:30:35 I thought it could "only" have 8 potions 12:31:00 Monsters have only one potion slot, so I'm not sure how he managed that, yeah :P 12:31:09 Unless that was increased 12:31:15 one slot 12:31:57 -!- by_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:57 -!- by has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:32:04 -!- by_ is now known as by 12:32:08 who made the hat of pondering? 12:32:17 Sounds like due 12:32:21 I'm a fan 12:32:43 Wasn't that one of Gastronok's? 12:32:49 yeah 12:32:56 jpeg did 12:32:59 MR Int+5 MP+10 12:33:04 and, you know, ponderous 12:33:21 Does the ponderous effect affect Gastronok? :P 12:33:33 I didn't notice 12:33:33 @?? gastronok 12:33:34 Gastronok (04j) | Speed: 5 | HD: 20 | Health: 150 | AC/EV: 2/1 | Damage: 40 | Flags: amphibious, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(80) | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 2131 | Sp: airstrike, slow, swiftness, small mammals, cantrip. 12:33:52 Gastronok fills me with unholy terror 12:33:55 Much like sheep 12:33:56 due has this freaky property where every single idea of his is good. Using puns for mechanics is bad, so as you can see, it couldn't have been done by him :p 12:33:58 the fight was basically me wasting my !conf, and then holding my berath while blade handsing him 12:34:00 I can't wait to fight an orb lich. In my experience with Mara's illusions, the easiest way to tackle an orb is with an orb. Orb duels in Zot:5 sound awesome :P 12:34:04 It's not that I'm afraid he'll kill me 12:34:14 But if he does manage to kill me, I'll never live it down :P 12:34:15 I think I got it... 12:34:25 greensnark: airstrike is pretty nuts 12:34:34 !lg * killer=gastronok s=name 12:34:36 34 games for * (killer=gastronok): 3x clouded, 3x TGW, 2x Zicher, 2x Kyrris, 2x quru, 2x crepe, 1x MarvinPA, 1x Lemuel, 1x murphyslaw, 1x Firo, 1x mars, 1x rob, 1x zergloli, 1x polystyrus, 1x Vandal, 1x Karagy, 1x Xiberia, 1x minmay, 1x Napkin, 1x Cryptic, 1x Eifeltrampel, 1x MUMMY, 1x b0rsuk, 1x Baccano, 1x nubinia, 1x bookofjude 12:34:39 TGW: Yes, but I know he has airstrike 12:34:41 And I know his speed 12:34:49 we're number one! 12:34:51 So there's no reason ever to actually give him time to use it :P 12:34:53 also, airstrike isn't as bad as it used to be 12:34:54 ??tgw[2] 12:34:55 he might slow you :P 12:34:55 tgw[2/5]: !lg * place=volcano 1 12:34:59 ??tgw[3] 12:35:01 tgw[3/5]: first death to aizul! first volcano death! most Yiuf kills as of 20010117! 12:35:09 !learn edit tgw[3] s/$/ tied for most gastro deaths!/ 12:35:09 tgw[3/5]: first death to aizul! first volcano death! most Yiuf kills as of 20010117! tied for most gastro deaths! 12:35:12 One of my shoals visits had me land between an impaler and a sheep 12:35:16 Guess what I tried to kill? :P 12:35:17 greensnark: Saw your earlier place-pop patch, but 1) shapeshifters still seem to be hiding under their aliases, and 2) what dod you mean by merging hydras and ugly things? 12:35:20 Not the impaler! 12:35:31 !lg * killer=sheep s=name 12:35:32 56 games for * (killer=sheep): 2x Lemuel, 2x splat, 2x Johan, 2x dirge23, 2x MadDasher, 2x TGW, 1x grogan, 1x Tityrus, 1x Radicchio, 1x Leibowitz, 1x oxeimon, 1x diablo, 1x concept, 1x Jovan, 1x coweater, 1x rabid, 1x veisix, 1x ChickenMan, 1x daf, 1x heteroy, 1x jeykey, 1x sumonz, 1x DarkAnt, 1x Drenmar, 1x Meow, 1x reid, 1x daftfad, 1x eliotn, 1x gunofdis, 1x Qlqri, 1x simul, 1x akhripin, 1x Dal... 12:35:36 Twinge: It works for me 12:35:39 greensnark: Can we get the sticky flame vulnerability for sheep? 12:35:52 Yes! 12:36:19 green: Hmm well I just updated from git, re-compiled, and I'm still showing up with e.g. "elf" on the list 12:36:23 I think it should be in the form of spreading from an adjacent sheep to another. 12:37:01 Keskitalo: Hi! 12:37:07 Hi dpeg! 12:37:07 Sheep forest fire 12:37:17 Twinge: Does it merge hydras for you? 12:37:22 Oh yes, we can use the forst fire algorithm ;) 12:37:41 Actually, sheep should ignite faster than gunpowder 12:37:48 And concentrations of sheep should blow up in massive fireballs 12:37:53 re AM: I have hope that there might be a combined background, for melee and missiles branding 12:37:57 Kesk: I don't know what that's supposed to mean :P 12:38:26 oh, right 12:39:04 Yes, it does 12:39:21 Do you have any shapeshifter in the list 12:39:25 anyway, night all 12:39:26 Maybe the elf was from a vault or something; I thought I had the des files still gone but apparently not, let's see 12:39:29 Pack animal (all Y) behaviour idea: if any of them get confused, berserk, fearful, charmed; all of the same pack do. 12:39:44 Keskitalo: <3 12:39:49 No, still have 'elf' even without the des files 12:39:57 That would make yak packs hilarious :P 12:40:00 Needs more dangerous states though. 12:40:10 "Horny" 12:40:14 eek. 12:40:15 And 'draconian', etc. 12:40:28 Twinge: Do you have any "shapeshifter" in the list 12:40:33 If not you're probably missing a recompile 12:41:12 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:41:26 I do not - but as I said, hydra is merging... 12:42:14 The hydra merge will happen even without C++ recompile 12:42:21 The hydra merge is all in the Lua code 12:42:31 The shapeshifter thing relies on a new C++ funciton 12:43:17 Oh, hum, there was an error on compile, so yeah that could be. 12:43:29 Didn't notice that previously... 12:44:01 Oh, I had a crawl.exe process open, whoops 12:44:22 Yaks should get a stampede ability :P 12:44:33 Swift movement and extra attack damage 12:44:39 And instakill vs low-hp small monsters 12:45:00 'tiny' size and non-flying =) 12:45:08 Spiderform? :P 12:45:20 green: That works, cheerio. 12:45:24 Vs player it would just be a damage bonus 12:45:28 -!- kast has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:45:30 Spiderform could be (and might alright be) 'small' 12:45:33 !tell dpeg Yaks need a chew-cud ability. 12:45:33 greensnark: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 12:45:37 so many good ideas :) 12:45:37 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:45:56 We should add llamas just so they can spit at players 12:46:02 I'm definitely for making actual use of monster sizes, it'll mean me fixing them all will have an actual reason, hehe 12:46:19 Fire llama, with spit sticky flame? 12:46:34 Enne D: 12:47:01 green: It works now, huzzah 12:47:46 Cool 12:48:34 -!- raydarken1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:41 Lliquid fllame llama 12:49:21 Keskitalo: we need you for 0.6! 12:49:47 dpeg: Whhaaat, mee? Explain immediately! 12:50:25 Kesk: Suggesting 'llama that spits sticky flame' implies that you hate the players, thus making you a good dev candidate! 12:50:25 Keskitalo: Has been drinking fermented llama milk 12:50:36 Keskitalo: vaults, testing, goodwill :) 12:50:58 Twinge: Keskitalo is a proper member of the devteam :) 12:51:06 Twinge: Thanks for the vote of confidence! I'm a dev already though :P 12:51:20 dpeg: Okay, sounds good! 12:51:35 Don't be deceved by Keskitalo's pleasant exterior; demonic ichor runs through his veins! 12:51:47 :O D:15 titan wat 12:52:17 could be evil_zoo 12:52:19 My laptop is blowing up though. I'm not sure I can manage a replacement. :P 12:52:26 By D:15 the player had better take what they get :P 12:52:53 Super OOD rolls activate at level generation time past D:13 or so 12:52:55 syllogism: Maybe, I'm not getting a repeat. 12:53:15 If he's running with -nomaps, evil_zoo will not be the culprit 12:53:56 Napkin: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=730 -- we should delete b0rsuk's save. 12:54:33 Every bug should include the name of someone on the team in the subject line :) 12:54:39 My first meeting with Mara. 12:54:40 That almost guarantees it'll be looked at quick :P 12:55:00 you met him several times but ran away :P 12:55:07 dpeg: Please put up a long fight before you die 12:55:20 I hate it when players splat immediately, or worse, kill Mara 12:55:35 glowing demon whip of reaching 12:55:35 sure to delete, Keskitalo? 12:55:38 In my last game I put an exclusion on him and left the level 12:55:50 pointless_: That's dreadful :P 12:56:04 I know. 12:56:05 Think of all the fun I missed 12:56:06 pointless_: I did the same, but on the way back out of Snake I am now proud user of IOOD 12:56:11 I mean, all the fun you missed! 12:56:25 Can Mara clone IOOD, I wonder 12:56:29 He probably can :P 12:56:34 Not gonna lie, the only time I've seen Mara I also put an exclusion on him and left the level ;O 12:56:48 Come on people, you can do better than this 12:56:52 I haven't met Mara yet :P 12:57:00 !lm * uniq=Mara s=name 12:57:00 101 milestones for * (uniq=Mara): 8x hyperbolic, 6x 78291, 5x clouded, 5x N78291, 5x trucutru, 5x Sticking, 4x Ahrin, 4x MarvinPA, 4x Yavar, 3x moq, 3x polystyrus, 3x pingpong, 3x Cryptic, 3x Omniguy, 2x Zicher, 2x syllogism, 2x MUMMY, 2x Stathol, 2x Grimm, 2x pointless, 2x DashNine, 1x chukamok, 1x bookofjude, 1x Napkin, 1x KiloByte, 1x heteroy, 1x Butch, 1x Gilly, 1x purge, 1x wya, 1x Kyrris, 1x... 12:57:08 do I delete b0rsuk's save, guys? 12:57:13 Napkin: As far as I can tell it cannot be salvaged. It's trying to load a vault that doesn't exist anymore (it's actually been renamed I think). 12:57:15 -!- kast has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:22 greensnark: Rrright? :) 12:57:26 I was intending to go back and maybe try him; that game is still active. That character already had about 500 near-deaths already though! 12:57:31 It cannot be salvaged without a hex edit or des file change, yes 12:57:55 greensnark: the only time i found mara, i died within two turns, so 12:58:04 didn't even get a chance to do anything 12:58:07 so - what would mean that such a change needs an increase to the major_tag? 12:58:12 doy: Yeah, that's no fun 12:58:23 We need a good fight before the player bites it :P 12:58:56 doy: Did I tell you how one my midgame characters died when some monster openen a door and, look, who's there -- a ghost of doy. I didn't get any action at all. 12:59:02 Napkin: No, we'd need to edit the name of the vault in b0rsuk's sve 12:59:07 dpeg: still bitter about that? 12:59:08 (: 12:59:13 Or we'd need to rename the vault in the .des file 12:59:26 Since it's just a temple save, it'd probably be easier to ask him and delete it 12:59:37 We should also fix the game so that we don't try to look up vaults by name 12:59:47 Names are just intended to prevent duplicates and for debugging 13:00:29 My first good game on cao I was running from a komodo dragon and sawtooth's ghost sneaked up behind me and blasted me :/ 13:00:50 messages him 13:00:51 thanks 13:00:51 I hadn't met the ghost before, and I do think he could have at least introduced himself before shooting 13:01:03 Hehe, I didn't even think of asking. :) And you call *me* nice. 13:01:41 greensnark: Obviously, technically, we should bump the major version when renaming maps as it is :)) 13:01:54 Keskitalo: Yeah, which is extreme :P 13:01:57 that is my fault, sorry about that 13:02:09 b0rsuk will never forgive 13:02:10 Matthews been away for a while though, he did the flexible temples. 13:02:30 If we're picking one temple at start of game, we should just generate the temple right away 13:02:39 So that we don't run into missing-vault-syndrome 13:03:23 dpeg: That problem would've been hard to foretell :) 13:03:47 dpeg: Thanks for the sane names for my temples in any case! 13:04:08 temple_firellama_002 now? 13:04:09 Keskitalo: no sweat 13:04:28 food again, later 13:04:32 * Keskitalo googles "rhombus" 13:04:40 green: might be worthwhile to add -norooms and -noentry as flags for place-pop too if easy, seems like a pretty useful check 13:06:35 Yes 13:07:15 The 0.6 page needs a list of vaults/code/options that are parametrized for testing. 13:07:43 What would be a good headline for that section? :) 13:08:42 "Currently set for testing"? 13:08:58 Hm? 13:09:06 What vaults are parameterised for testing? 13:09:18 Slime Entry with a guaranteed Jiyva vault for instance. 13:09:38 Does it also have a guaranteed Jiyva servant to look after the altar? :P 13:09:55 Like, say, an acid blob? :) 13:10:10 Probably not, as it should be easily accessible. :) 13:10:17 Excellent :) 13:10:25 "Currently parametrized for testing"? Is that English? 13:10:26 Any, um, oklobs? 13:10:46 Keskitalo: Add it to the Feedback requested section? 13:10:47 parametrized seems suspiciously close to gibberish 13:11:03 woah http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/parametrized 13:12:20 jpeg says there can be upto 8 uniques on a level? 13:12:26 Has that happened to anyone 13:12:27 10 is the record 13:12:28 :P 13:12:29 green: I've seen 8. 13:12:38 That's a lot :P 13:12:41 !lm * type=uniq place=orc:3 s=game_id 13:12:48 272 milestones for * (type=uniq place=orc:3): 14x , 10x 590902, 6x 588526, 5x 589172, 5x 585960, 5x 585733, 4x 587712, 4x 590972, 4x 598015, 4x 589759, 3x 586691, 3x 597335, 3x 587848, 3x 589097, 3x 594654, 3x 596322, 3x 594370, 3x 590836, 2x 586089, 2x 587330, 2x 584996, 2x 586690, 2x 583735, 2x 584803, 2x 590100, 2x 588338, 2x 589049, 2x 587225, 2x 588909, 2x 585001, 2x 590094, 2x 598323, 2x 586... 13:12:49 I've also seen 7, and 6, and 5 (more than once) 13:12:49 I thought people were complaining about two or three :P 13:13:21 green: No, I was trying to tell you this earlier, 5+ uniques on a level is actually pretty common right now 13:13:26 !lm * gid=590902 place=Orc:3 s=killer 13:13:26 10 milestones for * (gid=590902 place=Orc:3): 10x a hill giant 13:13:28 orc is a poular gathering place, it's the gold I suppose :P 13:13:31 Urgh 13:13:35 !lm * gid=590902 place=Orc:3 s=uniq 13:13:36 10 milestones for * (gid=590902 place=Orc:3): 1x Nergalle, 1x Eustachio, 1x Erolcha, 1x Donald, 1x Norbert, 1x Harold, 1x Joseph, 1x Agnes, 1x Nessos, 1x Psyche 13:14:28 !lg * id=590902 13:15:06 1. Sticking the Severer (L14 DrBe), worshipper of Trog, slain by a hill giant (a +0,+0 giant club) on D:13 on 2010-01-29, with 53651 points after 35100 turns and 2:02:00. 13:16:39 Can chaos weapons come up with reaping? 13:22:46 Rupert looks excited. 13:22:55 beautiful 13:23:05 by: ? 13:23:21 just speech, but I like it 13:23:31 -!- Enne has quit [Quit: *poof*] 13:27:21 can the player pick up things when berserk? 13:33:19 Yes 13:34:32 -!- Ero_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35:19 back 13:36:18 -!- Kil2 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:36:51 is it intentional that the X map is making exclusions for monsters i havent seen yet in the local ascii version posted on cdo/trunk? 13:37:03 Mm, D:4 hill giant 13:37:06 it is a bug 13:38:23 k 13:38:48 but not reported, is it? 13:40:23 Hm, in 500 runs over the main dungeon, D:13 wins the simultaneous uniques prize with 11 uniques 13:40:56 og17 is raining on all of my parades 13:41:12 !lm * place=d:13 type=uniq s=gid 13:41:13 5038 milestones for * (place=d:13 type=uniq): 201x , 7x 349653, 6x 587932, 6x 519713, 5x 393405, 5x 528125, 5x 384534, 5x 406893, 5x 579053, 5x 348769, 5x 580910, 4x 378312, 4x 247819, 4x 432729, 4x 90289, 4x 497228, 4x 594080, 4x 331818, 4x 454456, 4x 401365, 4x 498777, 4x 337017, 4x 409982, 4x 546632, 4x 579284, 4x 586649, 4x 369217, 4x 575669, 4x 358777, 4x 598985, 4x 192714, 4x 598015, 4x 3910... 13:41:29 Standard deviation for the unique distribution looks pretty acceptable, but the extreme cases are pretty extreme :) 13:41:32 !lm * place=d:13 type=uniq s=gid cv=~0.6 13:41:33 385 milestones for * (place=d:13 type=uniq cv=~0.6): 18x , 6x 587932, 5x 580910, 5x 579053, 4x 575669, 4x 594080, 4x 579284, 4x 582352, 4x 598015, 4x 588782, 4x 586649, 4x 598985, 3x 587186, 3x 589255, 3x 585733, 3x 591350, 3x 578047, 3x 587888, 3x 585331, 3x 582664, 3x 581120, 3x 592608, 3x 591090, 3x 579100, 3x 577482, 3x 585022, 3x 577621, 3x 587984, 2x 590116, 2x 583970, 2x 578094, 2x 591309, ... 13:42:02 D:13 unique average is 0.87, max is 11, sigma 1.3 13:42:23 greensnark: yes, we have a parameter that makes further uniques less probable. Or perhaps we should :) 13:42:29 green: Basically I think it'd be good if the, er, most common extreme was 4 instead of 5. If it was centered around that it'd probably be a lot more reasonable 13:42:48 I think the average and SD are fine 13:43:01 Just need a hard cap or to make uniques less likely the more that are placed 13:43:21 It already is supposedly less likely to place the more that are always placed, or so I was told 13:43:40 could increase that effect maybe, or step it up again once 3 are placed and again once 6 are placed or something 13:43:47 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:13 I'll leave the number twiddling to dpeg 13:44:16 :) 13:44:30 how about incrementing A in the loop? (each iteration, or with a chance) 13:44:31 Twinge: it's less likely the more that are placed, but only if there are only a few left to place 13:44:47 doy: Oooh, so as more uniques got aded, that became less relevant 13:44:53 Twinge: yes 13:45:01 especially in the midgame, which has a whole lot of uniques 13:46:09 03greensnark * r907a602007a9 10/crawl-ref/source/scripts/place-population.lua: Add -groupuniques option to merge uniques into one record in place-population.lua. 13:46:49 by: yes, should be done. Right now, A is an integer, it might be better as a fraction 13:46:49 How do I figure out the mass of an armour? (for knowing wether it'll train armour or dodging more) Is it similar or equal to the weight? 13:47:02 yes :P 13:47:05 each loop through starts with a 0.5 chance of breaking out, and each unique placed has a (5-min(number of uniques left, 5)) in 5 chance of breaking out 13:47:08 I was thinking of having it non-constant 13:47:24 by: yes, could also be done. I wanted to start with a simple system. 13:47:28 i think B should just not be tied to the number of uniques left 13:47:38 Propose something :) 13:47:53 just have one parameter 13:47:54 Napkin: Mass should probably be aum*10, basically. (Or, ignore the decimal) 13:47:57 The B effect is only there so that you don't see the same old unique in the same places (those with few uniques) 13:48:00 . 13:48:04 I propose to add an A++ to the loop 13:48:16 by: yes, that sounds reasonable 13:48:16 yeah, get rid of B and just do A++ each loop 13:48:17 or so 13:48:19 by: Sounds good to me 13:48:40 doy: but the B justification is good 13:48:43 dpeg: i don't see how it accomplishes that? 13:49:05 doy: if the unique pool is small, chances for getting a unique is lower. That's the intention. 13:49:39 this ties unique generation to the order you travel through the dungeon though 13:49:46 which is kinda weird 13:51:18 as in: the later levels you visit that are at the same depth will likely have a smaller chance of having a unique 13:51:32 which uniques show up where already depends on this 13:51:38 doy: I am not sure how you can prevent that effect without placing all uniques in advance. 13:51:48 yes 13:51:56 dpeg: well... then maybe we should place all uniques in advance(: 13:52:10 for 0.7 though, probably 13:52:14 but i think it's a good idea 13:52:34 -!- MarvinPA-2 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:37 I don't think it's worth it. 13:52:57 There are so many vaults who want to place uniques, so you have to generate the whole dungeon in advance. Portal vaults and all. 13:53:31 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:54:06 not really 13:55:44 considering 80% of the uniques have been hired to kill you, it seems plausible they'd follow you around 13:58:32 03kilobyte * r033400da40ac 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Drop an obsolete check for kraken submerging. 13:58:33 03kilobyte * r15b3bfe982ce 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Bring trapdoor spiders in line with other submergers. 14:03:53 Meh, game crashed in the middle of a stats run with by's suggested change :P 14:04:01 Apparently the acquirement code has its doubts 14:04:18 For some reason when handing out armour it's checking to ensure that the item is not a missile launcher 14:05:12 with A++, D:13 average is 0.61, max is 4, sigma 0.8 14:05:14 Oh, it's checking the weapon 14:05:50 Sounds much better 14:05:53 my computer is slow, but at least it doesn't crash :) 14:06:18 This is obviously one of those annoyingly rare crash bugs :P 14:06:43 with A++ after three uniques have been placed, average 0.76, max 5, sigma 1.03 14:07:16 Aha, operator precedence fail in effects.cc 14:07:27 This is why more people should use Emacs :P 14:07:31 nice script btw :) 14:07:34 It indents your lines where the real operators are :P 14:08:06 does emacs do the horrible cond? a : b spacing? 14:08:08 * by hides 14:08:18 by: Thanks :P 14:08:32 Yeah, it does horrible ?: spacing :P 14:08:42 But its indentation of && and || is top notch :P 14:09:38 03greensnark * rb7dc864044c3 10/crawl-ref/source/effects.cc: Fix rare crash in acquirement code (misplaced parenthesis). 14:10:37 Hey, the person who made the mistake is also an Emacs user :P 14:10:49 He must have been using some other editor for that change 14:13:51 Can we make the A++ change? 14:13:55 This would be a good time 14:14:07 We still have enough run up time to make sure uniques are not too rare now in playtesting 14:14:35 < GrimmSweeper> Also, my Silence range absolutely blows. 14:14:55 back 14:14:55 Enlarge ur S1l3nc3 r4ng3 14:15:17 replacing M_NOISY_SPELLS by M_ACTUAL_SPELLS to make Khufu silenceable sounds right? 14:15:29 that should be the title of the next playtesting post 14:15:33 by: Yes 14:16:33 I am fine with the uniques nerf. 14:16:56 -!- MarvinPA-2 is now known as MarvinPA 14:16:57 looks like you get max range at power 50, so he must have like enchantments 5 :P 14:17:08 greensnark, dpeg: do you prefer A++ for each unique, or only after 3 have been placed? 14:17:29 I like the second option 14:17:36 * greensnark wants MOAR uniques, ROAR 14:20:22 by: dito 14:20:35 !lg * ikiller=Khufu 14:20:35 1. Grimm the Demonologist (L22 SESu), worshipper of Vehumet, blasted by a hellion (burst of hellfire) (summoned by Khufu) on Crypt:1 on 2010-02-07, with 315797 points after 83818 turns and 7:03:28. 14:20:38 03by * r12ab201379bb 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Fix message joining for "Things that are here:" variant. 14:20:39 03by * rf803c1e61678 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Make Khufu silenceable again. 14:20:41 03by * rec5210d9e6bf 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Reduce chance of large unique clumps (greensnark, dpeg). 14:20:41 ^^ Silence :P 14:26:04 Shoals are as dangerous as they were 6 XLs before. 14:26:21 Shoals are pretty easy if the player is good! 14:26:22 by: I love the message condensing! 14:26:24 Or so I'm told :P 14:26:56 Yeah the message condensing and targeting changes are awesome 14:27:03 0.6 interface rocks 14:27:05 Keskitalo: thanks! if you find messages that shouldn't be merged, can you add to the wiki? 14:27:34 Right after dpeg says Shoals are tough I log in and see him fighting a butterfly and two orcs 14:27:44 hehe 14:27:46 This is not the kind of thing I expected :P 14:31:30 by: Okay, I'll try to keep an eye out for them. 14:34:17 ??silence 14:34:17 silence[1/4]: Kills all sound within 6 spaces, mostly this means no spellcasting. All Gw*8z; demons, and Khufu are unaffected, as are spit and breath spells. In the books of Charms and Sky. 14:34:41 03greensnark * r382d8eb1a8e8 10/crawl-ref/source/scripts/place-population.lua: Fix references to Shoal:X in place-pop usage text. 14:35:02 !learn edit silence[1] s/, and Khufu// 14:35:03 silence[1/4]: Kills all sound within 6 spaces, mostly this means no spellcasting. All Gw*8z; demons are unaffected, as are spit and breath spells. In the books of Charms and Sky. 14:35:15 !learn edit silence[1] s/; demons/ and demons/ 14:35:15 silence[1/4]: Kills all sound within 6 spaces, mostly this means no spellcasting. All Gw*8z and demons are unaffected, as are spit and breath spells. In the books of Charms and Sky. 14:35:38 Hell damage causes ally to become hostile (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=732) by tinyrodent 14:35:50 !learn edit silence[1] s/ and demons/12345R/ 14:35:51 silence[1/4]: Kills all sound within 6 spaces, mostly this means no spellcasting. All Gw*8z12345R are unaffected, as are spit and breath spells. In the books of Charms and Sky. 14:35:57 Oh, we still hve that bug? 14:36:02 That's an ancient classic :) 14:36:05 heh 14:36:08 I could have sworn it was fixed at some point 14:36:20 Someone surrounded by X in Gehenna got a surprise, as I recall 14:37:28 I still need someone for the last two bits of Ctrl-O. 14:37:32 -!- elly has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:46 What are the last two bits 14:37:55 If they're <5m work, I'm your person! 14:38:06 And I'd like to clarify that m = minutes, not months 14:38:15 (1) Distinguish between accessible and inaccessible altars. This may be a hard nut. 14:38:26 Ah, that needs the travel cache change 14:38:31 Several hours work :P 14:38:31 (2) For branches you could have met by now, print: Temple: D:4-7 14:38:39 (2) should be easier 14:38:41 Can we add those to the wiki 14:38:47 On the 0.6 page 14:38:57 Want me to do that? 14:39:11 Well, it'S not urgent 14:39:14 is submerging done? 14:39:23 but since we touched 0.6, it'd be good to finish this if we can. 14:40:07 on (2): When you end up in the range of a branch, print the "Temple: D:4-7" (etc.) in darkgrey; collected after the branches you already found 14:40:15 I'll add it to the good-to-have thing 14:40:19 doy: now is a good time to ask kilobyte. 14:40:22 greensnark: thank you 14:40:30 kilobyte: you here? 14:40:41 i ran into a water area on my last game, and it seems like submergers are even more annoying now than they were earlier 14:40:57 since now autoexplore isn't even sort of safe 14:41:22 and now you can't kill submerging monsters at all unless you're adjacent to them 14:41:25 doy: that's a better form of annoyance 14:41:36 doy: monsters should not submerge any more 14:41:55 dpeg: monsters always are submerged unless they can attack you 14:41:58 from what i could tell 14:43:01 if you step next to a submerged monster, it unsubmerges and attacks, and if you step back, it immediately resubmerges 14:43:13 doy: yes, submerging is now for attacking rather than fleeing, which should improve matters a lot 14:43:29 oh, if taht happens, it's not the intention 14:43:35 (well, at least not my one :) 14:44:32 it's kinda annoying to autoexplore into a shark with no warning, when you're a kenku with like 42 maxhp d: 14:45:15 doy: no, that is just a matter of getting used to a change (and perhaps modifying the interface) 14:45:47 greensnark: kudos once more for the tides, they're so sexy 14:45:47 at the very least, being able to put a travel stopper on submerged things would be nice 14:46:33 doy: I think we miscommunicate. My plan was that some monsters may submerge, but only for attacking purposes. So once the shark bit you, it will not submerge again. 14:47:04 dpeg: sure, i think that would be a lot better 14:47:30 i also think that there should be a way to make autoexplore not run you up next to a submerged monster though 14:47:53 it would have to be ~ visible 14:47:58 yeah 14:48:03 which they are currently 14:48:29 (i also thought that the ~ weren't supposed to be visible unless you were closer to them) 14:48:56 doy: yes, that part of the plan is that submerged monsters are visible, if at all, only if you're near 14:49:39 could someone collect an talk with Adam about thisß 14:49:45 I am texing in parellel 14:49:52 busy times 14:51:36 < elliptic> why is there a shaft on lair:8? 14:51:57 known bug 14:52:02 it doesn't actually do anything 14:52:20 Keskitalo: I was so close to dying to a frost giant in an ice cave just now 14:52:57 st_: Cool - did you have to leave? 14:53:35 nope, killed it with a wand of fire (I tried to take it in melee at first) 14:54:53 03pointless_ * r508e7aa14019 10/crawl-ref/source/ (14 files): Make Fedhas only care about necromancy that affects corpses/chunks 14:55:10 pointless_: Yay! 14:55:37 Well it's a big usability problem right now, but I guess someone is working on highlighting for specific spells? 14:56:03 yes, but not a dev 14:56:17 let's hope Textmode will pull through 14:56:20 Textmode is. That'll help about Zin/chaotic spells as well. 14:56:25 well if he flakes out I'll do it 14:56:55 dpeg: from your proposal on the wiki: "There is no submerging in general, but by the above rule, the monster would automatically become hidden again if cannot attack you anymore (for most water creatures, if you step away from the water)." 14:57:18 uh oh, a snapping turtle 14:57:29 doy: oh shit! :) 14:57:32 (: 14:57:44 doy: what do you think, do we want that? 14:57:59 I think I recall what I was thinking. 14:58:24 I think it's ok: you can kill submergers, at the risk of standing next to them 14:58:51 by: yes, that was the plan 14:59:04 and they won't have today's annoying flee/submerge cycle 14:59:35 So submerging things no longer flee? 15:00:48 they can still flee, but submerging is not a means of flight anymore 15:00:50 they should fight to the death, but they will submerge if you step away 15:00:56 so they cannot attack anymore 15:01:06 the only exception I'd make is for kraken 15:01:11 kilobyte: Hi, there you are :) 15:01:35 doy: so, is anything actually wrong with the current setup, apart from autoexplore not stopping when an ~ emerges? 15:02:21 Interesting 15:02:38 A sea snake submerged, putting out its sticky flames, but was engulfed by steam right after :) 15:02:47 I guess it evaporated the water! 15:03:05 dpeg: I have to go to bed in 0.5hr, can you fit your splat into that? :) 15:03:29 monsters still submerge when there's a cloud above them, I thought it's better to keep that 15:03:41 That's good to have 15:03:43 :)) 15:03:50 It's also a handy way of shutting up an electric eel early <3 15:04:11 oops 15:04:12 i think it's the autoexplore thing that was the most annoying part 15:04:35 dpeg is having a little strife with snapping turtles 15:04:55 Which means the probability of a glorious splat on Shoals:$ is nearly one 15:05:00 interesting X knows that \ is a lab 15:05:11 X is for X-ray! 15:05:26 hmmm, that should probably be fixed 15:05:37 Wherever dpeg goes he meets a snapping turtle soon after 15:05:51 read fear? 15:05:54 @?? snapping turtle 15:05:54 snapping turtle (03t) | Speed: 9 (act: 80%; swim: 60%) | HD: 10 | Health: 30-90 | AC/EV: 16/5 | Damage: 30(reach) | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40) | XP: 281. 15:06:24 (steam, (water), almost dead, mesmerising) 15:06:37 anything defined as MAX_MONSTERS+k needs to go 15:06:55 MHITYOU? :) 15:07:11 thanks to Fear! 15:07:24 syllogism: ah, didn't read your suggestion 15:07:28 a good one :) 15:07:29 greensnark: for example 15:07:31 by: It used to be defined as an int literal :) 15:07:44 <3 15:07:46 Guess who was surprised when MAX_MONSTERS changed :P 15:08:43 dpeg tried autoexplore in the lab :P 15:09:23 May I suggest a luck penalty for each use of digging in labs :P 15:09:51 digging often just makes it harder :P 15:10:15 syllogism: not for me :) 15:10:32 Meh, OOD is too strong :P 15:10:39 poor loot 15:10:42 yes, indeed 15:10:45 I can't believe dpeg was having troubles with turtles with OOD :P 15:10:48 you got a wand of hasting :P 15:10:49 wand of hasting is poor loot? 15:10:56 that's above average for a lab d: 15:11:00 Hey, he has high standards :P 15:11:11 doy: already had one :) 15:11:18 he just wants shiny armour and jewellery 15:11:27 very okawaruian 15:11:36 What?! 15:11:38 Where's my splat :P 15:11:45 greensnark: I will die if I keep playing .) 15:11:57 Is that a bad thing? I can't make out :) 15:12:01 hehe 15:12:08 I owe pointless_ a Fedhas win. 15:12:11 Allrighty, good night :) 15:12:14 And I want see some kraken! 15:12:16 nights! 15:12:17 -!- greensnark has quit [Quit: Nighty night] 15:12:54 !lg * ktyp=winning god=fedhas 15:12:54 4. pointless the Gelid (L27 DSCj), worshipper of Fedhas, escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2010-02-07, with 1510151 points after 156057 turns and 7:48:50. 15:13:06 !lg * ktyp=winning god=~chei 15:13:08 1. hyperbolic the Englaciator (L27 NaIE), worshipper of Cheibriados, escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2010-02-04, with 1959151 points after 100844 turns and 13:03:39. 15:13:17 !lg * ktyp=winning god=~ji 15:13:17 4. MarvinPA the Slayer (L27 DSCK), worshipper of Jiyva, escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2010-01-21, with 1675085 points after 134366 turns and 13:57:26. 15:13:24 oh, there are wins already, nice 15:13:45 !lg * ktyp=winning god=zin 15:13:45 41. PigVomit the Intangible (L27 SpPa), worshipper of Zin, escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2010-01-28, with 1575816 points after 151579 turns and 15:25:09. 15:15:35 !lg * ktyp=winning s=-god 15:15:35 2221 games for * (ktyp=winning): 1x Cheibriados, 4x Fedhas, 4x Jiyva, 37x Kikubaaqudgha, 41x Zin, 46x Beogh, 55x Yredelemnul, 59x Elyvilon, 69x Xom, 79x , 80x Lugonu, 109x Nemelex Xobeh, 170x The Shining One, 173x Vehumet, 206x Makhleb, 261x Trog, 283x Sif Muna, 544x Okawaru 15:16:41 !lg * ktyp=winning s=-god cv>=0.5 15:16:42 849 games for * (ktyp=winning cv>=0.5): 1x Cheibriados, 4x Fedhas, 4x Jiyva, 11x Zin, 13x Beogh, 14x Xom, 19x Kikubaaqudgha, 22x Elyvilon, 28x Lugonu, 32x Yredelemnul, 32x , 46x Vehumet, 63x Nemelex Xobeh, 67x The Shining One, 105x Makhleb, 114x Trog, 124x Sif Muna, 150x Okawaru 15:17:14 150x Okawaru GRRRR! 15:17:21 so zin, xom, kiku, ely, and lugonu are worse than having no god at all 15:17:22 (: 15:17:57 doy: I don't know about you, but I generally feel good inside the minority :) 15:18:11 And K, E, L are all good. (K only now.) 15:18:46 !lg * ktyp=winning god= s=race 15:18:46 79 games for * (ktyp=winning god=): 59x Demigod, 4x Hill Orc, 3x Spriggan, 2x Demonspawn, 2x Merfolk, 2x Naga, 1x Troll, 1x Human, 1x Ghoul, 1x Grey Elf, 1x Deep Dwarf, 1x Kobold, 1x Halfling 15:19:37 doy: did you reply on the submergers? Should something be done? 15:20:23 !lg * ktyp=winning role!=be role!=pa role!=pr role!=he role!=ck role!=dk s=god 15:20:34 1578 games for * (ktyp=winning role!=be role!=pa role!=pr role!=he role!=ck role!=dk): 507x Okawaru, 278x Sif Muna, 173x Vehumet, 132x Makhleb, 105x Nemelex Xobeh, 73x , 59x The Shining One, 50x Trog, 44x Lugonu, 40x Xom, 33x Kikubaaqudgha, 27x Elyvilon, 23x Zin, 19x Yredelemnul, 7x Beogh, 4x Fedhas, 3x Jiyva, 1x Cheibriados 15:20:47 !lg * ktyp=winning role!=be role!=pa role!=pr role!=he role!=ck role!=dk s=god cv>=0.5 15:20:47 595 games for * (ktyp=winning role!=be role!=pa role!=pr role!=he role!=ck role!=dk cv>=0.5): 142x Okawaru, 122x Sif Muna, 64x Makhleb, 62x Nemelex Xobeh, 46x Vehumet, 30x , 26x The Shining One, 22x Trog, 17x Kikubaaqudgha, 14x Lugonu, 13x Yredelemnul, 11x Elyvilon, 8x Zin, 7x Xom, 4x Fedhas, 3x Beogh, 3x Jiyva, 1x Cheibriados 15:21:29 heh, trog drops sharply if you don't count berserkers 15:21:30 (: 15:21:45 as does tso 15:21:48 for paladins 15:22:28 need to cut back on starting gods :) 15:22:30 doy: also, ^ 15:23:37 !tell henryci Henry, are you still up to doing the "Temple: D:4-7" bit? People are pressuring for branching! Cheers, David 15:23:37 dpeg: OK, I'll let henryci know. 15:24:20 !tell kilobyte it'd be nice if there was a way to make autoexplore/travel not run you adjacent to submerged monsters... the current implementation doesn't do much to make autoexplore any more safe to use than previously (pretty sure it's even less safe now) 15:24:20 doy: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 15:25:36 doy: wouldn't that just mean that autoexplore considers all ~ as dangerous? 15:25:46 (which seems very reasonable) 15:26:26 that could work, once the "don't show ~ unless you're close to them" goes in 15:27:06 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 15:27:14 doy: true. So we should treat all ~ like 0.5 fish: autoexplore will happily walk around it, but not next to it? 15:28:50 !tell due I missed a trove today (well, it was too expensive). Sniff :) 15:28:50 dpeg: OK, I'll let due know. 15:30:02 is there any particular reason labyrinths have metal at the border instead of say "unnaturally hard rock wall"? 15:30:02 dpeg: that would work 15:30:26 by: no. Probably only bad reasons. 15:30:36 by: I support undiggable rock wall. 15:30:38 really, just making it normal rock wall would probably be better 15:30:45 doy: no! 15:30:45 why does it need to be undiggable? 15:30:52 because of players 15:30:54 they'll dig 15:31:02 for what purpose? 15:31:03 doy: you're not supposed to dig around the border when the minotaur is close to the border 15:31:23 ah, i guess 15:31:32 could just not place the minotaur near the border 15:31:33 (: 15:31:39 doy: if you are in the rock wall section, you can dig anyway. Digging the boundary is only for cheaters! 15:32:09 i don't see the difference, really 15:32:34 doesn't the lab use almost the whole space 15:32:50 !tell kilobyte Sorry for !tell spam but we kept talking... It seems as if autoexplore should treat all ~ (submerger indicators) like 0.5 fish: don't stop autotravel for them, but don't walk next to them either. If you agree but want to pass the buck, please do so. Otherwise object :) 15:32:50 dpeg: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 15:33:17 how to make a labyrinth in wiz-mode? 15:33:19 doy: well, you are the person who wrote the lab script. Not sure we can trust your judgement when it comes to mazes. 15:33:24 d: 15:33:33 &l 15:33:35 by: &L lab_entry_d (or so) 15:33:51 that would be &P 15:33:55 err 15:34:03 &l not capitalized makes a lab under you 15:34:06 no need to play an entry vault 15:34:11 place 15:34:12 ah, interesting 15:34:32 hmmm 15:34:39 what is the green trail on the X map 15:34:44 thanks! 15:34:49 spore? 15:34:55 in a lab? 15:35:33 * doy points to my termcast 15:35:46 weird 15:36:01 you can shatter the border 15:36:05 looks good 15:36:11 yes but there's nothing behind it 15:36:20 by: if you have shatter, it doesn't matter anyway :) 15:36:23 two or three diggable squares 15:36:32 you can run all you want in the lab anyway 15:37:22 not sure how digging the border really helps 15:37:38 anymore than digging inside the border 15:38:34 syllogism: you might be able to dig right next to the minotaur in some labyrinths 15:39:10 that seems pretty marginal 15:39:18 syllogism: no, it's not. 15:39:48 doy: if you wait for the lab to change those green squares get spread around (??) 15:39:50 by: undiggable rock is okay. But given the talk here, I see there is a reason to have a visibly undiggable boundary. 15:39:59 syllogism: how weird 15:40:10 maybe it's some debugging info 15:40:14 doy: the green line may be connection from your spot to the minotaur? 15:40:18 dpeg: no 15:40:18 is that mold? 15:40:20 it's not 15:40:25 and fprop corruption? 15:40:30 it only shows up on the X map 15:40:33 it may still be related to testing lab changes? 15:40:41 and yeah, is now just randomly spread around 15:40:50 including on walls 15:41:04 dpeg: it says "unnaturally hard rock wall", that should be enough 15:42:34 03by * r1192336ab87d 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Make outer labyrinth wall permarock. 15:43:06 doy: what are you doing :P 15:43:16 shatter is fun! 15:43:17 (: 15:44:00 labyrinth_add_blood_trail highlights 15:44:20 I did see some blood trails by the green squares 15:44:23 but why do they move around :P 15:44:50 by: thanks 15:44:58 godconduct.cc: In function ‘bool did_god_conduct(conduct_type, int, bool, const monsters*)’: 15:45:02 godconduct.cc:919: error: size of array ‘compile_check_c1’ is negative 15:46:15 When did we get compile-time asserts? 15:46:19 by: while you're at it, do we want to add the message blurb when entering a lab? 15:46:47 can fighting and weapon skill no longer be trained up to 2 on plants/fungis? 15:46:53 Napkin: yes, only 1. 15:47:08 ah, ok - thanks 15:47:10 03by * rf0247fb55a33 10/crawl-ref/source/godconduct.cc: Fix compilation (DID_CORPSE_VIOLATION name). 15:47:16 Enne: for years now, it looks like 15:47:23 Heh. 15:47:24 Napkin: there wasn't even discussion. I think it was done for symmetry with Spellcasting. 15:47:40 yeah, makes sense 15:47:54 dpeg: you can do that if you want; I don't like the message 15:48:16 You enter a dark and forbidding labyrinth. The outer maze is made of rock, followed by a part of stone. The innermost section is made of metal. There resides the minotaur. 15:48:19 that's the one 15:48:28 by: come up with a better one! 15:48:48 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:50:49 no, why? :) 15:51:23 You enter a dark and forbidding labyrinth. The minotaur guards the treasure inside a metal part of the maze. You will have to traverse the rock and stone parts to get there. 15:51:54 Where are our native speakers? All asleep, probably. 15:54:33 those messages are far too explicit in my opinion 15:55:26 ah, I see 15:55:58 if we had a "look up this place" thing, it might fit there 15:56:08 ?/B 15:56:27 dpeg: Did I say I only learnt about that command like two weeks ago? 15:56:47 You enter a dark and forbidding labyrinth. The harder the walls get, the closer you are to the centre? 15:56:52 Keskitalo: no. But it's all there :) 15:57:09 It's a good command. 15:57:22 it would be nice if the "distant snort" were reproduced inside the labyrinth somehow 15:57:38 Why does a flying monster like a hippogriff stop burning over water? 15:57:44 by: this is a good point. 15:58:10 "You hear a snort, reverberating metallically." 15:58:19 something in that direction, with better language 15:58:26 oh, nice 16:01:30 Nice idea in a SA post: generate new levels for escaping with the orb. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3155652&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=146#post372027305 16:02:22 meh 16:02:30 (to new post-game levels specifically) 16:02:51 i do like the idea of the orb actually corrupting the dungeon on the way back up though 16:03:04 I have a treatise about a post-game, where you fight all the gods (and generally die :) 16:07:12 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:07:19 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 16:14:07 seems like people are finally coming around to the whole speed randomization idea 16:14:39 also, is bailey loot supposed to be so ridiculous? 16:15:08 doy: what did you get? 16:15:25 some A*****d variants have done speed randomization for years 16:15:26 some of the baileys don't seem to have loot at all 16:15:38 dpeg: just reading on sa, seems like people are getting like 13 potions of gain ability, 16 scrolls of enchant weapon, etc 16:15:46 I'd guess it has a bigger effect there, since band depends on instant escapes 16:17:25 doy: you cannot get 13 potions of gain dexterity 16:17:41 dpeg: 8 dex and 5 str 16:18:07 that may be possible 16:19:05 you get one item of ITEM: potion of experience q:2 w:30 / potion of cure mutation q:3 w:30 /\ potion of gain intelligence q:8 / potion of gain strength q:8 /\ potion of gain dexterity q:8 16:19:39 so only one stat booster (and then 8 potions) 16:20:31 http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3155652&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=149#post372169910 16:21:38 doy: it's not possible :) 16:21:56 might be worth running some tests at least 16:24:34 doy: there is exactly one match for "dex" in bailey.des. And that's the one I showed to you. 16:24:45 It is not possible, the player reports are not reliable. 16:31:22 03pointless_ * r0f3bc7705f58 10/crawl-ref/source/ghost.cc: Revert 51c89be, let ghosts worship Fedhas again 16:33:36 what effects does ghost religion have? 16:35:12 Their god gets put on their description string 16:35:31 by: there will be more effects in the future 16:47:06 good night 16:47:31 Hi, dpeg. Night, dpeg. 16:55:22 !tell greensnark You might also want to merge mimics of the same type for place-pop too. 16:55:22 Twinge: OK, I'll let greensnark know. 16:56:00 by: having to specifically look at every wall to know you're at map border in labirynths is a pain 16:56:16 by: what about either using some other wall type or recolouring them? 16:58:01 kilo: What dod you change on trapdoor spiders btw? Just their submerging behavior? 16:58:43 Morning folk 16:58:43 due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:58:47 night dpeg! 16:59:05 !messages 16:59:05 (1/1) dpeg said (1h 30m 15s ago): I missed a trove today (well, it was too expensive). Sniff :) 16:59:07 :) 16:59:11 Twinge: right. 16:59:15 due: meow! 16:59:31 Hey kilobyte! 17:00:20 dpeg, EV:38 by the end of lair :D 17:01:07 44 emails? 17:01:13 kilobyte: go ahead with recolouring -- don't know how to do that; open sea would probably not be appropriate? 17:01:29 Recolouring? 17:01:58 What are we recolouring? :D 17:02:08 kilobyte: also, it's quite easy to tell you're at the outer wall just because it's straight 17:02:25 due: labyrinth now has permarock border 17:02:31 Ah 17:02:38 Instead of metal? I am ultra for this. 17:02:52 by: it's usually obvious, but not always -- so you'd have to use 'x' to be sure 17:03:35 it's hardly worse than before, where it wasn't always obvious which kind of metal it is 17:04:00 but as I said, I won't object to changing it -- make it trees if you like :) 17:04:14 border metal always touched rock, center metal always touched stone 17:04:49 doy: Hey, my original new labs proposal had a rugged boundary =) 17:05:05 Trees would be confusing, I think. 17:05:06 doy: it just gets worse. Do you get all of them? 17:05:19 If at all, we should use recoloured undiggable rock. 17:05:19 kilobyte: you can also remap permarock in your options I think (which would be useful anyway) 17:05:36 trees would look just silly in lab 17:05:41 no trees 17:05:51 -!- by has quit [Quit: sleep] 17:06:10 since the lab doesn't use real map borders, crystal walls would have to be protected somehow 17:06:21 a maze made of trees with a ______ at the end 17:06:22 so that means it's best to use paint 17:06:55 except, there's a problem: which colour to choose? :p 17:07:09 03haranp * r64a6c9bbf4a5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (directn.cc main.cc spl-cast.cc spl-cast.h travel.cc travel.h): Code cleanup and reorganization, mainly for process_command(). 17:07:28 kilobyte: let's settle this right here 17:07:38 I am for darkgrey 17:07:39 colour is infinitely impossible 17:07:44 why not darkgrey... 17:07:45 huh? 17:07:46 what dpeg said. 17:07:55 dpeg: Colour discussions are always amusing. 17:08:05 * dpeg tries to wrap his heady head around "infinitely impossible". 17:08:52 !tell by IOOD feedback at http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:feedback:magic:spell:iood 17:08:52 dpeg: OK, I'll let by know. 17:08:52 Oh, due: You already did a simple fix for no bands for OOD then? 17:09:02 kilobyte: also for you, of course, but by just left 17:09:32 Twinge: No? 17:09:38 kilobyte: I'd like to move "submergers" from Critical to Feedback. Is everything in? 17:09:40 I went to bed, so unless I've been coding in my sleep (infinitely possible). 17:09:43 dpeg: ;) 17:09:48 oh, someone else did, they just had your name on the fix 17:10:05 I'm just reading my email 17:10:33 dpeg: yeah, we'll see what else needs to be fixed, for now only the issue of autotravel near ~ was raised 17:10:46 kilobyte: yes, I collected that for you in the !tells. 17:10:52 Should be a sane solution. 17:11:29 It's a much more complicated fix than the one I was gonna do, but it looks like it works, hehe. (I started wondering when I genned a D:7 or whatever with only one yak) 17:11:49 Twinge: Darshan did it, invoking my name :) 17:12:11 Ah, that's what I thought he might do. 17:15:09 a swamp worm just unsubmerged, while remaining sleeping 17:16:34 st_: you can see it now 17:17:03 yeah I guess 17:22:36 kilobyte: I think I broke kraken by adding the unsummon-tentacles-when-fleeing thing. 17:22:42 did I report that *-dir is broken with no vi command keys? 17:22:56 ok, yes, sorry 17:23:33 -!- Eifeltrampel has left ##crawl-dev 17:23:36 ok, sleeps for real 17:24:02 Oh, I like rob's fix for uniques. 17:24:08 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: zzz] 17:44:52 Something that might be cool would be to have water creature visibility partially based on their size - you can easily see a shark in shallow water, for example, even if a few steps away 17:47:13 due: hey? 18:26:26 due: I just fought a kraken, if fled and inked me without any issues 18:42:24 Hmm, looks like barely OOD mobs still spawn in packs like normal. I think he treated it like D:1 was depth 1 when it's actually depth 0. Simply changing the +5 to a +4 would fix that 18:45:59 -!- Siber has joined ##crawl-dev 18:46:21 -!- raydarken1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48:03 -!- raydarken1 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:49:24 -!- SiberSchool has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:00:38 -!- Siber has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:43 -!- Siber has joined ##crawl-dev 19:14:13 -!- yobbo has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:39 hi, are any developers around? 19:24:04 hi, they were here a little while ago 19:24:31 got a question? Maybe i can help? 19:29:28 I am only just barely here 19:30:01 TGW: not really here 19:31:37 is there a way to pick a random member of a table? 19:39:02 you mean like 19:39:08 random_element 19:39:25 yobbo: everyone with a + in front of their name is a developer 19:39:37 as are several people without 19:39:45 so yes, lots of developers 19:39:47 however 19:39:51 do not ask to ask 19:39:56 arr sorry got distracted dying in crawl >< 19:40:08 i made a patch that fixes a crash, can someone look at it? 19:40:09 if a developer comes online, say, 5 hours from now, and sees 'hi, anyone here?' 19:40:12 what can they do? 19:40:13 sorear: that's probably what I mean 19:40:15 absolutely nothing. 19:40:34 if a developer comes online 5 hours from now and sees 'I have problem XYZ' 19:40:42 the developer can leave an answer 19:40:52 TGW: you do not want that 19:40:58 TGW: it does not work as one would expect for some odd reason 19:41:18 TGW: you want... 19:41:23 local table = {"blah", "blah"} 19:41:32 yobbo: is the crash bug filed on mantis? is the patch attached to it? 19:41:35 local result = table[crawl.random2(#table)+1] 19:41:58 due: that's pretty much what I had before :[ 19:42:00 TGW: random_element works oddly for some odd reason. 19:42:02 actually 19:42:03 yes it's at http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=628 19:42:05 let me try typing it out again, maybe I was stupid 19:42:18 -!- Enne_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:23 Enne! Hi. 19:43:17 :( re: OpenGL. 19:43:22 TGW: There might be a utility function for it 19:43:56 TGW: local result = util.random_from({"blah", "blah"}) 19:44:16 -!- Enne has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:44:16 -!- Enne_ is now known as Enne 19:44:18 ooh 19:45:25 yikes, not again 19:45:30 stdarg.h :( 19:45:39 yobbo: what kind of cpu do you have 19:45:42 sorear: I just looked at that link and saw "va_list" 19:46:01 I believe the only appropriate response is "Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo." 19:46:08 amd64, running ubuntu 64 bit 19:46:20 stdarg.h makes me want to hurt somebody 19:46:52 the C89 committee would have had trouble making a *more* trap-filled system 19:47:11 I think varargs was better, at least from a UI POV 19:48:07 anyways, I'm not going to apply this because it *is* going to break the game for *somebody* and I don't have testing resources 19:50:06 Solution: assign to neunon. 19:50:07 the patch looks fine to me 19:50:09 yeah 19:50:14 that's what I did 19:50:44 yobbo: You would not believe the amount of trouble we have had with va_list, varags, etc, stupidity. 19:51:01 crawl never used varargs 19:51:11 varargs went out of style before Crawl was started 19:51:14 va_copy, then? 19:51:16 NetHack uses varargs 19:51:18 Ah. 19:51:28 va_aaaargh, more like. 19:51:30 varargs was deprecated in 1989 19:53:28 varaaaaargh. 19:54:04 -!- due changed the topic of ##crawl-dev to: DCSS development channel! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl (new and improved! and possibly buggy... let doy know) | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Welcome to va_aaaaaargh hell! Please leave your compatability at the door. 19:55:01 Did I misspell compatability? I don't think so. Hm. 19:55:36 due: I sure would believe, even after finding where it was crashing it took me 30 mins to figure out what was wrong with the code 19:56:08 yobbo: I give you 80% odds that your fix will make it start crashing on some *other* platform 19:56:13 yobbo: I'm honestly sure that we've used that combination of va_copy before. 19:56:15 most likely Windows/MSVC++ 19:56:26 It's delightful fu. 19:56:30 *fun. 19:57:09 due: <3 19:57:25 it works 19:58:13 Yay. 19:58:14 * due gone. 20:07:51 bleah 20:11:24 -!- raydarken1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:15:35 dgn.create_item(x, y, fixed_brand_weapon("draining")) works fine, but I can't figure out how to get something like dgn.create_item(x, y, "scroll of holy word q:2-4 / fixed_brand_weapon('draining')") to work 20:16:23 I guess I could type it out, but then it takes a ton more space and I have to type it out three times 20:20:58 -!- raydarken1 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:27:54 -!- Iainuki_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:32:11 http://pastebin.ca/1789693 20:41:36 yred gets draining? 20:42:18 and TSO: book of Undeath w:5" <- should be book of unlife i think? 20:43:16 yes and yes 20:43:46 as in you're right and both are fixed but I'm too lazy to update it 20:44:32 heh 20:45:54 "scroll of holy word blah / " .. fixed_brand_weapon('draining') 20:46:16 you know, I probably should have figured out 20:46:24 You probably should've 20:46:35 are you doing weapon weighting in a function? you shouldn't 20:46:44 oh 20:46:46 * due click pastebin 20:46:53 :P 20:47:01 you shouldn't do it like that 20:47:16 why not? 20:47:21 it's easy to weight 20:47:25 because it's only one item 20:47:42 bah 20:47:46 also shouldbe local item 20:47:48 not item = blah 20:47:50 due: ":( re: OpenGL" ?? 20:48:02 what's the difference? I haven't noticed one 20:48:08 TGW: Global versus local. 20:48:17 TGW: item = blah = making a new global variable called "item". Do not do this. 20:48:28 hm that does sound bad 20:48:39 Enne: A pity that you've had to go back to the old one and make thee new one an option. 20:48:49 so wait, should I do that differently or not? 20:48:58 due: At least it works now. Or, I hope it does. 20:49:03 Yeah 20:49:05 I'll check tomorrow 20:49:08 TGW: Yes. 20:49:16 TGW: You should be saying "local item = {blah bla god stuff}" 20:49:32 erm, not that part, I'm changing that right now 20:49:48 using another function for the weapon 20:49:53 the first thing you didn't like 20:49:55 TGW: Nah. 20:49:59 ok cool 20:50:00 TGW: It doesn'tt really matter that much. 20:50:07 what was the other option? 20:50:24 Write a function that converts a list of weapons and an ego into a string that's a weighted list then pass that back. 20:50:40 That means you can weight the items individually and let the game's RNG pick stuff instead of using Lua. 20:51:16 Enne: I haven't had a chance to look at the reverse tile base lookup yet, going to play around with it now while I have lunch. 20:51:23 (Spent most of yesterday writing the play-testing post.) 20:51:42 loving the posts btw due 20:51:43 =) 20:51:55 Kil2: Thanks! 20:53:17 -!- Enne has quit [Quit: sleep] 20:54:45 -!- Ero has joined ##crawl-dev 20:54:55 Oh, no, an Ero! 20:54:57 * due runs away. 20:59:19 oh man, it works perfectly 20:59:45 Surprise! 20:59:49 That doe snot happen often. 20:59:55 Usually you spend five hours trying to work out why 20:59:58 then you realise you've found a bug! 21:00:40 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 21:01:59 http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=729 21:02:03 can someone delete _fixed? 21:02:27 Done 21:02:57 now you tell me I deleted the wrong one 21:03:08 no, that was right 21:03:49 yay 21:03:49 I think the lugonu one is done 21:04:01 I'll look at it tonight 21:04:09 woo 21:11:05 I don't know what to do next 21:11:11 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 21:12:31 TGW: Create a Kiku vault that involves the drowning of small children. 21:13:13 haha 21:13:15 I could 21:14:59 And everyone will hate you! 21:15:15 Maybe a baby alligator would be more appropriate. 21:16:57 hm, that cloud is purple smoke 21:17:01 should it be translocational energy? 21:18:23 oh, you know what? 21:18:50 can you remove water from a level? 21:19:08 sunlight? 21:19:12 with lua 21:23:55 sup 21:23:56 Vandal: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 21:24:05 I've been working for the last month 21:24:23 Seems you guys haven't slowed down for a moment though :) 21:28:51 type !messages :[ 21:32:00 "in the slow crusade to turn Cheibriados into a meaningful entity, there are four obstacles. If you're in a hurry, skip (1)-(4) and read about the specific proposals." 21:32:05 for some reason this is immensely funny 21:33:03 yea i found it funny too :) 21:42:37 TGW: Yes. 21:46:29 how? 21:46:38 dgn.terrain_changed 21:46:46 rather, is there a vault does that? 21:47:49 TGW: there's a couple. what exactly do you want to do 21:49:12 veh altar on an island that blows up the water all dramatic-like, or something 21:50:24 Bleh, why do craw.vcproj and tilegen.vcproj keep showing up as uncomitted changes? updating submodule fixed the lua one I think, but these 2 persist 21:50:36 what does that? 21:50:47 because you're using VC and VC changes them? 21:51:33 Er, no? I don't even have VC installed :P 21:52:16 ok, found a volcano 21:58:08 heh, the misuse of stdarg stuff was my fault 21:58:27 it used to be that that function had a hard limit of 200 characters or something dumb 21:58:52 doy: yeah, :)) 21:58:59 doy: we should've just increased the hard limit. 21:59:03 meh 21:59:08 amusing 21:59:15 stdaaaaaaargh 21:59:34 it is actually possible to get varargs stuff correct, and it's a lot less dumb overall when you do 22:00:17 are you sure? ;) 22:00:46 for the specific use of implementing printf wrappers, yes 22:00:47 (: 22:01:14 :) 22:01:22 due: Do you know how the super-OOD generation works right now? I think it could use just a nudge towards happening less often; nothing drastic. 22:01:40 meh, i like the current level of ood generation 22:01:45 Twinge: No. 22:01:51 Twinge: I've no idea how any of it works :) 22:01:57 with the change to make bands not appear, it should be more reasonable already 22:04:22 Somewhat, yeah 22:08:31 in any case, i'm going to apply yobbo's patch 22:08:47 Okay 22:08:50 Have fun 22:08:57 I look forward to the stdaaaargh discussion when I get home. 22:09:11 because it is more correct than the current code anyway 22:09:13 -!- Iainuki_ has quit [Quit: Iainuki_] 22:09:21 and we are already using c99 features 22:09:40 if it breaks on msvc, we can fix that later 22:12:34 Autoexplore malfunction (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=733) by Nobody 22:15:00 yobbo: What name do you want for CREDITS? 22:16:03 03doy * r189aaad139d8 10/crawl-ref/source/message.cc: more proper stdarg usage (yobbo) 22:17:13 hmmm credits should be organized into tiles, patches, vaults, etc. so it shows what people did 22:18:12 but then I couldn't pretend to be important 22:19:26 It doesn't take much to get into credits 22:19:33 exactly 22:19:34 i was put in for contributing 2 tiles way back 22:19:48 now i think i've actually earned my place a little more heh 22:19:51 sorear: "Thomas Iorns" I guess :) 22:19:55 purge: Probably unecessary; I imagine there's a lot of overlap, and it'd be annoying to go bakc and credit specific people to specific things I think 22:20:27 way back when, I got in for a tiny tweak to levdes.vim 22:21:04 how in the world are you supposed to keep the credits file up to date and alphabetical 22:21:09 when the names are in three columns 22:21:19 isn't there a script that makes the credits for you 22:21:28 ah, perhaps 22:22:54 util/columnise-credits.pl 22:22:57 or something 22:23:27 maybe it should be a spreadsheet so you could just put a X in each column that the person did work in 22:24:33 I'd look even less important then :[ 22:25:14 As regards the Robe of Misfortune description rewarding spoiled players - perhaps there should simply be another 'fabulously ornate robe' added to the list of unrandarts 22:25:47 i really don't think that unrandarts are a big deal 22:26:08 i mean, we have vaults that are dangerous if you don't know what's inside them 22:26:17 but are avoidable if you recognize them 22:28:52 eh, it's a minor quibble but a valid minor quibble 22:29:18 haha, i originally got into CREDITS for bug reports about delay_message_clear 22:29:21 (: 22:29:33 it was basically unusable when i started playing 22:29:51 i use delay_message_clar; thanks! 22:29:55 *clear 22:30:42 i badgered greensnark into making it actually worth using, even as he repeatedly made fun of me for it 22:30:45 (: 22:31:46 originally all delay_message_clear did (hence the name) was wait to clear the message area until it was filled up all the way, rather than every turn 22:32:12 actual scrolling came about when i was like "who could possibly find this useful" 22:32:16 (: 22:37:49 huh, kornel kisielewicz is in CREDITS 22:38:14 who? 22:38:21 doomrl author 22:38:24 ah 22:45:37 what did kornel do? 22:46:05 git blame CREDITS 22:46:20 laaazy 22:46:22 sorear: i already checked through the history 22:46:25 it doesn't seem to say 22:46:30 it usually doesn't 22:46:34 it's usually "added x to credits". 22:46:36 he was added with the same batch of additions that i was 22:46:47 but i can't find his name or irc nick in the logs 22:49:25 oh wow, i had no idea how old shoals actually was 22:49:37 initial implementation in april 2007 22:49:40 oh really? 22:49:46 and it takes until '10 to make it Awesome. 22:49:51 when was 0.4.5? 22:50:11 jan 09 22:50:18 ah 22:50:25 so it was in trunk since then? 22:50:53 it's been in trunk since right after the release of 0.2 22:51:18 wow. 22:51:30 I thought it was an 0.5ism 22:51:36 bodes well for getting other new branches added. 22:51:40 (: 22:52:44 Treasure chest open and closed tiles (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=734) by purge 22:58:36 Hehe, so far my depth tweaks result in: 3% fewer rats/goblins/kobolds/hobgoblins/bats on D:1. Huzzah? 22:59:50 Huzzah! 3% mor ewhat? 23:00:40 small snakes, giant mites, quokkas (mostly quokkas) 23:01:01 A *little* more colorful of a D:1 anyway 23:01:47 I also made gnolls more common, but rarely come in packs on D:1 (stil possible) 23:01:48 what depths did you tweak? 23:02:05 what's the cloud name for conjured flame 23:02:05 doy: Not much so far, this is the first actual testing I've done to changed numbers 23:02:20 http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:feedback:monster:depth 23:02:59 i think a more general "pack monsters always show up earlier as single monsters" implementation (with a few exceptions where it doesn't make sense, like slime creatures and ugly things) could be an improvement 23:03:09 rather than changing individual monsters 23:04:17 doy: Well, OOD spawns no longer show up in packs, but that still leaves a couple cases that are borderline OOD 23:04:35 @??ogre zombie 23:04:35 ogre zombie (07Z) | Speed: 8 | HD: 5 | Health: 32-53 | AC/EV: 0/1 | Damage: 14 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(8), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 51. 23:04:39 @??ogre skeleton 23:04:39 ogre skeleton (15Z) | Speed: 8 | HD: 5 | Health: 26-43 | AC/EV: 0/0 | Damage: 14 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(0), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 45. 23:04:43 @??ogre 23:04:43 ogre (07O) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 15-40 | AC/EV: 1/6 | Damage: 17 | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 120. 23:04:54 And going by the monster, in some cases, allows for some interesting options, e.g. allowing the bands some of the time, or allowing smaller bands, etc. 23:05:11 sure 23:06:22 but i think having the normal behavior being "single monsters early, packs later" rather than "always packs" would be better 23:06:31 and we can tweak individual monsters from that 23:07:24 Perhaps. I don't know that that owuld require any fewer tweaks though, either way works 23:23:54 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:33:03 -!- TGW has left ##crawl-dev 23:51:16 -!- raydarken1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:47 @??prince ribbit 23:51:48 Prince Ribbit (11F) | Speed: 14 (swim: 60%) | HD: 6 | Health: 40 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Damage: 20 | Flags: amphibious, spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 302 | Sp: teleport self. 23:52:30 !killsby prince ribbit 23:52:30 790 games for * (ckiller=prince ribbit): 13x TGW, 10x Tenaya, 10x Stormfox, 10x KiloByte, 9x 78291, 9x Vesto, 9x clouded, 8x heteroy, 8x IamThem, 8x nmf, 8x eben, 7x Cryptic, 7x Zicher, 6x Leibowitz, 6x henryci, 6x crawlie, 6x Shane, 6x Kyrris, 5x Arival, 5x Ahrin, 5x bmoore, 5x Chog, 5x Mong, 5x b0lt, 5x Mietteloaf, 5x LordSloth, 5x oxeimon, 5x DashNine, 5x Johan, 4x DrPraetor, 4x Shock, 4x assas... 23:53:03 -!- raydarken has joined ##crawl-dev