00:01:15 a part of me also wqonders if DARKGRAY and LIGHTRED were chosen because they are the same length... 00:04:07 I think...I think I'm going to make a function that takes a color constant, and returns the length of its string representation. 00:04:16 add it to color.cc 00:05:09 actually, could be an array, for all that... 00:07:00 idk, what do you thnk? 00:11:20 -!- kast has joined ##crawl-dev 00:12:18 -!- kats has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:13:46 -!- kats has joined ##crawl-dev 00:15:09 -!- Giomancer has quit [Quit: ASCII a stupid question, get a stupid ANSI!] 00:15:59 -!- kast has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:26:40 -!- kast has joined ##crawl-dev 00:27:11 -!- kats has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:56 -!- kast has quit [Client Quit] 00:38:37 -!- raydarken has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:40:14 -!- raydarken has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43:15 Crocodiles hide under floor (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=711) by nubinia 00:52:00 wasn't that one already reported? 00:53:01 heh "is this what you wanted the crocs to do? I'm not surprised its confused..." ^_^ 01:04:58 the second @play column about crawl is out: http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2010/02/column_play_crawlapalooza_part_1.php 01:08:58 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:11:08 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]] 01:11:45 -!- Siber has joined ##crawl-dev 01:14:51 -!- SiberSchool has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:23:05 -!- SiberSchool has joined ##crawl-dev 01:24:45 hand xbows are going to be removed? 01:25:48 no 01:25:52 they've been gone for a while 01:26:01 -!- Siber has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:26:14 how'd I miss that? 01:26:28 oh well, i never really used them anyway.. 01:28:05 there seems to be a number of errors and omissions from that article... 01:28:22 I've seen at least three "[[check]]" reminders, too 01:28:44 I'm pretty sure you are supposed to remove those before publishing :P 01:29:22 ??silence 01:29:23 silence[1/4]: Kills all sound within 6 spaces, mostly this means no spellcasting. All Gw*8z; and demons are unaffected, as are spit and breath spells. In the books of Charms and Sky. 01:30:00 I thought silence was an unatural and oppressive effect that did little for stealth? 01:32:12 correct 01:32:45 yet another inaccuracy in the article, he says silence boosts stealth... 01:32:52 its not a very good article... 01:37:19 that's what you get from a nh fanboy 01:37:50 but I don't think this series is for crawl experts 01:38:19 I never understood the appeal of NH, I found it intollerable... 01:38:58 I mean, gods that get pissed off if you pray to them? 01:40:05 I would love if this would happen in RL too 01:40:07 I've never played NetHack, but it seems to me a game which is all about doing cool things 01:40:46 its also seems to be mostly about spoilers. 01:41:55 I mean, using a cockatirce corpse as a club? (but don't forget to wear gloves, and for the love of $diety, put it away before moving, lest you fall down a pit trap and be unsavably paralysed by your weapon!) 01:42:59 I think "doing cool things" and "spoiler-heavy" go together, because you need the spoilers to know what the cool things are 01:43:08 oh yes, and female characters are better than male ones, because if you polymorph you can have children who will reamin your loyal pets... 01:43:52 yeah, but its reached the point where its almost impossible to play *without* spoilers... 01:44:23 I think its appeal is emergent behaviour combined with sadistic code and a special sense of humor 01:44:54 well, I agree with the sadistic code, part :P 01:46:05 traps in crawl are "remarkable leathal"? 01:46:33 some people seem to like that. If you listen to people telling of their nethack games, it's like war veterans talking 01:47:03 I always thought traps in crawl were rather forgiving... 01:47:36 (which I like, btw. more of a tactical concern than a deadly fate) 01:48:08 heavily trapped areas in nethack are completely ignorable with a couple resistances 01:48:20 I think Crawl traps need to be more diverse 01:48:45 shafts are definitely a step in the right direction 01:48:49 such as? 01:49:17 poison resistance (for spiked pits, darts, arrows), magic resistance (for levelporters, polytraps) 01:49:55 "all characters should increase their traps and doors skill when they can"? I ignore it half the time... 01:50:43 I mean, I don't want it to get *too* low, but...my primary skills infinately exceed it in importance... 01:51:13 also, it seems weird to see bhaak calling people 'nethack fanboys' 01:51:31 exactly one person in this room is spending effort to keep the nethack branch of the RL tree alive 01:52:30 (maybe two. *wow* this channel has grown) 01:52:36 Hmm? NH branch? 01:53:36 Textmode: in the great tree of game design, the nethack branch consists of nethack, sporkhack, unnethack, slashem, nethack++, nethack--, etc etc etc etc 01:54:08 yeah, they have a lot of forks... 01:55:41 aside, is it just me, or are all the screenshots in the thread of the tiles version? 01:55:47 article* 01:56:28 they are-check the comments 01:57:29 http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/wiki/History 01:57:48 in 20 years you get a lot of fork 01:58:50 although most of the features of the earlier forks landed in nethack. Since roughly 2000 not a lot has been done by the devteam besides incorporating patches 01:59:09 "summon spammals"? I've never heard it called *summon* spammals...just spammals 01:59:44 sorear: I'm just using channel-lingo :) 02:06:07 ....crawl has coup-de-grace rules? 02:06:24 someone needs to step the hell away from the dnd rulebooks... 02:06:48 crawl rules don't have names 02:06:56 coup-de-grace is a fine name for them 02:08:10 what's coup-de-grace in the dnd sense? 02:08:41 finishing blow 02:08:41 purge: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 02:09:19 more like mercy blow. 02:09:43 mercy? i don't call insta-killing a paralyzed foe mercy :) 02:09:54 in the dnd sense, characters in certain positions/statuses can be "just killed". 02:10:14 purge: I was speaking more in terms of the phrase itself 02:10:20 oic 02:11:10 thx 02:11:33 sleep and paralyse are the main ones, I think. 02:17:06 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:44:12 haha, the sticky flame nerf thread now also contains whining about speed randomization 02:44:15 sigh 02:45:22 yay? 02:46:20 ahaha yeah 02:46:22 I'm closing it 02:47:03 yeah, that whole thread is worthless 02:47:24 not even worth responding 02:48:03 they bitching about sticky flame, too? 02:48:10 what a surprise... 02:48:18 Textmode: You are correct. 02:48:44 * Textmode has flashbacks to balancing armor and invis on DoND... 02:48:46 reduce number of messages for butchering (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=712) by rob 02:48:46 If a character is helpless, a full turn action can be performed called a coup de grace 02:49:06 Which is basically a guarateed crit. 02:49:11 IIRC 02:49:34 I though it was more than just a crit. 02:49:51 I don't remember/ 02:49:52 but I can't be assed to check the book, I never liked DnD anyway... 02:50:04 I could go grab my 4e manual right now... 02:50:14 ##crawl-offtopic is that-away. 02:50:15 :p 02:50:26 Right, sorry. 02:50:39 Continue being awesome 02:53:08 ...Where's the awesome? 02:53:22 * Madtrixr leaves for a bit to facilitate awesomeness. 02:53:48 only 6 message lines with default config (?) (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=713) by rob 02:59:35 * Textmode grins and copy-pastes an array definition from C into lua. and writes a function to produce the required values. 02:59:54 I thought that issue got killed already? 03:00:05 no 03:10:20 oh goody, I changed a header file, so now everythign is being rebuilt. I so miss this while I'm doing lua :D 03:10:32 :D 03:10:42 do you have ccache installed? it makes things faster 03:11:19 installing :) 03:11:31 I often write C++ and lua, and then I forget to do compiling after modifying C++ 03:11:38 hehe 03:11:46 Adeon: i do that so often when switching between vaults and wrappers for vaults... 03:11:47 "why didn't that fix it" 03:11:53 03due 07wizlab * rb9fc821de9b3 10/crawl-ref/ (47 files in 7 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into wizlab 03:11:54 do I have to configure ccache? 03:11:55 i write one and then fire up lua and it goes "cannot find wrapper " and I go "???" 03:11:58 Textmode: Yes 03:12:01 Textmode: OS? 03:12:06 linux 03:12:15 What distro? 03:12:18 ubuntu 03:12:43 if [ -x /usr/lib/ccache ]; then 03:12:43 export PATH="/usr/lib/ccache/bin:/usr/lib/ccache:$PATH" 03:12:44 fi 03:12:51 put that in your ~/.bashrc 03:14:00 can use ccache -s to verify it has done something 03:14:08 03due 07vaults * r7a130dc311f1 10/crawl-ref/ (271 files in 31 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into vaults 03:14:53 was that export just to put ccache in my path? 03:15:46 ccache path has gcc, g++ and cc, which point to ccache binary instead 03:16:27 ah, so I need it to override the normal binaries 03:16:59 yeah, when you write "gcc" it goes to ccache, ccache does its magic and everything should work just like before, only faster when you compile something again 03:17:06 * Madtrixr comes back and is satisfied by the awesomeness. Back to lurking... 03:17:53 its still basically using the real gcc in the end, though? 03:18:15 yes 03:18:54 Wizlab portal tile submission (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=714) by purge 03:19:00 Textmode: yes 03:19:11 <333333333333 purge 03:23:08 no make clean... 03:23:47 and I think I've got the highlighting basically working now, just have to test it and find out what I inevitable screwed up :) 03:23:59 yay 03:24:12 (deep-test, I've just been checking spriggans and swiftness so far) 03:28:48 * due fetches mouse blood, pieces of wood 03:28:52 greensnark, greensnark, greensnark! 03:28:59 * due lights a candle in front of a mirror. 03:29:00 greensnark, greensnark, greensnark! 03:29:13 :( 03:29:20 My summoning ritual failed. 03:33:04 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:36:30 -!- Blitz82 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:36:30 hehe 03:36:45 maybe I should try again 03:36:48 * due fetches a chicken and a machete 03:36:52 lol 03:37:11 first mouse.. then chicken.. don't touch the cow! 03:37:19 no, cow would be a bad idea 03:37:21 i may be smote 03:37:44 hehe 03:39:24 -!- Madtrixr has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:39:25 -!- Blitz82 is now known as Madtrixr 03:40:14 -!- Madtrixr has quit [Client Quit] 03:42:43 whats more important? Food, or Tea? 03:44:29 tea 03:44:31 always tea 03:49:08 -!- Siber has joined ##crawl-dev 03:50:17 -!- Siber has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:51:25 xv on a bazaar gives "undescribed portal vault entrance." 03:51:50 I think it's a perm one if that matters 03:52:04 flickering? 03:52:24 -!- SiberSchool has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:52:30 st__: hm, perm may make a difference. 03:52:39 just " a gateway to a bazaar" 03:53:04 yeah 03:53:07 will fix 03:54:08 st__: fixed, thanks 03:54:25 03due * r052ca7a38fda 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/bazaar.des: Fix missing description for permanent Bazaars (clouded). 03:54:56 -!- Siber has joined ##crawl-dev 03:57:40 -!- Siber has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:57:45 -!- Siber has joined ##crawl-dev 04:00:37 does swiftness help spriggans that have been slowed? 04:00:47 Textmode: don't know, this was debated earlier. 04:00:59 :/ 04:01:54 Textmode: didn't help last time i checked 04:02:49 Textmode: no 04:03:04 Textmode: it does, however, help spriggans who are burdened or wearing ponderous gear 04:03:23 movement speed and action speed are capped independantly 04:03:25 hmmm... 04:06:33 -!- Siber has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:10:53 -!- Siber has joined ##crawl-dev 04:17:06 bah 04:17:09 stash tracker is broken 04:17:46 daamn it 04:20:42 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:20:44 damn... 04:21:22 hm? 04:21:32 I was agreeing with you 04:21:46 oh 04:23:36 -!- Kil2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:23:42 it's something new, too 04:24:55 Anyone know how to fix the stash iterator? 04:25:28 * Textmode remains distinctly silent 04:27:27 the l_* files are lua bindings? 04:27:39 yes 04:30:39 oh, it does work 04:35:51 03dpeg * r63268568b843 10/crawl-ref/CREDITS.txt: Add Andrew Minton (minmay) to CREDITS. 04:36:47 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:37:39 hey dpeg 04:38:31 cheers 04:38:39 due: thanks for closing the Sticky Flame thread 04:38:39 heya 04:38:54 dpeg: I discussed it with doy, he agreed 04:38:57 Players telling us that SF is not hilariously overpowered :/ 04:39:03 due: well done! 04:40:21 Of those devs who are here: any objections to moving the ponderous ego to a racial trait (whatever the name)? 04:40:22 where was this thread, anyway? 04:40:28 Textmode: on Mantis 04:40:31 ??mantis 04:40:31 mantis[1/2]: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/ 04:40:32 ah 04:40:50 it basically got to 'this is why i think sticky flame is not overpowered' and huge commennt explanations. 04:40:55 which was basically the 'eh' stage. 04:40:56 yes 04:41:48 There were some sane souls who argued on a sensible level. That touching would possibly make SF useless (there is some truth to this) but the "it's not overpowered!!1!" crowd was louder 04:42:21 freeze and vampiric draining aren't useless 04:42:23 yes 04:42:46 core xii is never right about anything 04:42:49 so we'd have three touching spells: one can slow, another heals, the third does lasting damage 04:42:53 syllogism: :) 04:43:12 dpeg: there's also confusing touch 04:43:21 which is slightly similar 04:43:23 isn't there also confusing touch? or was that changed already? 04:43:30 forgot that one 04:43:37 which is of course also useful 04:43:52 how do we deal with monsters that have sticky flame? 04:43:56 mottled dragons should be okay 04:44:00 but this will also nerf those monsters 04:44:00 its the fact that its unarmed and ungloved that makes them annoying imho 04:44:07 yes, as are the player dracs 04:44:28 due: which other monsters use SF? 04:44:32 -!- raydarken has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:44:32 balrugs, smoke demons 04:44:39 deep elf conjurers sometimes get sticky flame 04:44:45 draconian scorchers 04:44:49 that's it 04:45:01 the rest get the breath 04:45:04 due: well, they would only use SF when adjacent, so more fireball etc.? 04:45:40 !seen by 04:45:40 I last saw by at Fri Feb 5 22:10:36 2010 UTC (12h 35m 4s ago) quitting with message Quit: Lost terminal. 04:46:29 yeah 04:46:32 !tell by There have been no complaints about Ponderous ==> Sluggish at all, I just asked on ##crawl-dev. Can go in, I say. Do you see any obstacles? 04:46:32 dpeg: OK, I'll let by know. 04:46:45 i'm not sure if monsters are coded for adjacent spells 04:46:58 due: well, the SF nerf is not for 0.6 04:47:36 ok 04:48:16 I think that all critical 0.6 issues are in, apart from tiles. 04:49:13 alright, wizmode abuse testing for great justice! ...how does this thing work? :P 04:50:30 dpeg: almost finished troves 04:50:38 yippie! 04:51:06 Textmode: compile wizmode (make wizard) and press &? 04:51:20 yeah, I figured it out 04:51:41 debug is better, imho 04:51:45 and I didn't have to compile a wizmode version, it automatically makes both wizmode and normal version 04:51:49 debug? 04:52:08 it automatically makes both wizmode and normal version? since when? 04:52:32 since as long as I can remember 04:52:41 ./domake.sh 04:53:41 O_o 04:53:46 you *use* that? 04:54:00 ;_; 04:54:11 did i do something bad? 04:54:17 i don't think anyone uses that 04:54:20 it's ancient 04:54:24 so 04:54:29 go into the source dir and type 'make wizard' :) 04:54:30 the first 10x I built crawl I used them 04:54:38 since they stick out in the top level directory 04:54:42 yeah 04:54:45 and just look like they should be the main way to build 04:54:47 if its anchient, why is it still there? :/ 04:54:49 I'm not sure they're used for anything 04:55:09 you could just delete them 04:55:14 or hide them away 04:55:26 #jmf: automate making normal & wizard binaries, until they merge 04:55:28 in the words of an old dev-freind of mine "Get rid ovit!" 04:55:31 well 04:55:45 sorear: are they needed? 04:56:17 actually Noonan has been updating it 04:56:24 heh 04:56:39 or updated once 04:56:50 (the first update in over 2 years 04:57:45 hmm, first test case, Swiftness is highlighted as useless for spriggans, but when slowed it is recommended (which is correct as implemented, though factually incorrect, I'll take that out) 04:58:23 I'd advise deleting them if they are niether updated, nor recommended. 04:58:44 especially since they do stick out as obvious, they look like the proper way :/ 05:01:52 how can I easily aquire necromute? 05:02:03 &o: 05:02:25 &%:all 05:03:23 I am weighed down by my possessions :P 05:03:59 and theres 21 books still at me feet ^_^ 05:06:49 :) 05:07:44 dpeg: This trove wants the triple sword "Caogh". Pay? 05:08:31 what are the red colored spells in the Mem list? 05:08:43 "dangerous" ones, probably 05:08:52 yeah, that seems likely 05:08:52 annihilations, demonology, etc 05:09:00 what does it ask for if there are no suitable items available 05:09:08 syllogism: potions or scorlls. 05:09:14 due: what a beautiful message.... better than sex. Mostly :) 05:09:27 a - [D:6] the -3,+2 triple sword "Caogh" {holy, *TELE rF+ SInv} (1939 gold) 05:09:33 due: or outright money? 05:09:37 what kind of potions/scrolls 05:09:46 syllogism: identify, enchant x, heal wounds, speed, healing. 05:09:49 and a stack of. 05:10:01 dpeg: outright money is always an option 05:10:32 so good 05:10:41 layout is mangled in the casting menu, probably the same thing I had in the mem menu earlier. 05:10:51 is it just random or does it consider what you already have 05:11:02 random 05:11:22 seems to be marking spells that have no effect on undead as useless in lichform 05:12:38 Textmode: you are doing menus? 05:12:47 Will there be a patch? 05:13:09 color highlighting of spells, and yes I plan on submitting when I'm done. 05:13:59 Textmode: didn't you talk about other menus as well, yesterday? 05:14:43 spellcasting memorisation, and book-reading. 05:14:54 yes, I'm testing them now, to see If I got it all right. 05:15:10 is the trove item decided when you enter or when it's generated 05:15:27 when it's generated 05:15:35 so, deterministic at level start 05:17:34 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:17:39 due: hey, I have another idea: what about making Troves untimed, but the pee for getting the quest depends on time? 05:17:47 due: feel free to ignore this :) 05:17:49 "the pee" ;) 05:17:59 whats the intangable title for? 05:18:08 *intagible 05:18:26 "saddsaf the Intangible " 05:18:32 direct copy-paste 05:20:16 due: the advantage would be that players wouldn't experience the heartbreaking view of abandoned trove portals. But had to face heartbreaking prices :) 05:20:29 heh 05:20:39 in theory, it's doable 05:23:03 -!- purge has quit [Quit: reboot] 05:25:27 i can't seem to target myself with corona, how else can I make myself backlit? 05:25:38 tso 05:25:39 Fedhas's sunshine 05:28:13 Invisibility is correctly marked as useless while glowing, necromutation is correctly flagged as hated by my god 05:28:26 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 05:28:26 -!- Zaba has quit [Changing host] 05:28:26 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 05:28:42 but...Regeneration is also marked as forbidden by my god...ah, Necromancy... 05:28:43 does invisibility give the stealth bonus while glowing 05:29:58 feel free to suggest combinations I should test for proper highlighting 05:32:17 I don't think so, i was told to mark invis as useless while glowing... 05:33:41 syllogism: no 05:33:55 swiftness when you've speed 3 05:36:13 oh wait spriggans have that 05:37:33 I'm thinking maybe I should check speed, rather than levels in mut_fast... 05:37:46 you should 05:38:02 nagas only have speed 8 if they've that mutation 05:38:40 I don't suppose its as easy as 'you.speed'? 05:40:47 I'm off to sleep 05:41:03 rest well 05:45:45 how do i check the player's speed? 05:46:28 player_speed()? 05:46:34 player_movement_speed() 05:46:44 ah 05:47:30 1 is the lowest it can go, right? 05:47:49 read the code :) 05:48:23 btw, the naga special case is done after capping it to 6 05:50:13 Sustained spells (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=715) by Core Xii 05:51:07 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:56:19 interesting concept, but I'm not sure it would work, particularly as manapools seem quite chunky. 05:57:09 that sort of continuous drain seems better suited to "smooth" pools (either floats, or large numbers) 05:57:21 plus we'd have to add a command to end spells... 05:58:30 mana is a fixed point number already, rounded down for display 06:00:43 yeah, but players might revolt if theres actually an effect that drains .2 mana per turn 06:01:17 due: nights! 06:03:44 wow, wanderer is nice! 06:03:59 upgraded wanders? 06:04:13 I don't know 06:04:20 if they got upgraded 06:04:49 I remember there being talk about upgrading them. 06:05:17 making them less "challange class" and more "interesting choice" 06:05:17 Wn has been improved ages ago :) 06:05:18 by sorear 06:06:14 casting menu looks properly formatted again 06:06:46 the weights in the ctrl+x menu are not aligned properly 06:06:54 now that you mention formating ;) 06:07:08 !lg * cls=Wn ktyp=quitting || ktyp=leaving s=cv 06:07:12 72693 games for * (cls=Wn ktyp=quitting || ktyp=leaving): 47565x 0.5, 13596x 0.4, 4772x 0.3, 2600x 0.6-a, 2073x 0.4-a, 1184x 0.2, 702x 0.5-a, 201x 0.1 06:07:26 I don't think I did the playerspeed check properly, swiftness isn't marked useless... 06:09:35 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:51 no more --more-- when reaching next level <3 06:17:13 even if I still don't like the monster speed randomization - jumping rats are funny ;) 06:19:37 BR: if show_more option is activated, it'll overwrite the last message 06:20:14 sorry, I meant if small_more is set to false 06:23:40 Napkin: proper Mantis item or !tell, otherwise it's lost :) 06:23:55 yes, sir! :) 06:24:20 did you read about the change to the notification emails? 06:25:36 any other highlighting situations I should test/support? 06:26:18 Napkin: probably ): 06:26:22 erm, :) 06:26:27 every spell when you are confused? 06:27:56 heh 06:28:02 how is the ctrl+x screen called, dpeg? 06:28:03 Think I should do that? 06:28:12 probably not 06:30:17 Napkin: ctrl-x screen :) 06:30:24 Using small_more=false overwrites last message (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=716) by Napkin 06:32:25 hehe, good point, david ;) 06:33:08 Napkin: the thing is that Ctrl-X is not ideal. On the one hand, the commands for x, X, Ctrl-X fit nicely together, but on the other hand, Ctrl-X is so awkward to press. 06:33:24 ja, i agree 06:33:33 Napkin: do you have a better idea? 06:33:33 what about... space? 06:33:54 it's not used anywhere.. i can't imagine people have it bound to a macro or something 06:34:04 while confused, all spells are treated as random uselessness, right? 06:34:28 is there any chance of doing what you were trying to do? 06:34:34 it'll be very easy to show this very informative and important screen 06:34:48 maybe even more info could be added.. like location info etc. 06:35:25 Ctrl+x screen anomalies (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=717) by Napkin 06:37:21 Napkin: good idea 06:37:39 added as note to that last BR 06:37:41 :) 06:38:11 thank you 06:38:52 unless there are objections, I think I *will* highlight all spells as useless while confused. 06:39:23 is that the case? 06:39:45 seems to be random uselessness 06:39:49 are blink, armour enhancement spells, etc all not useless? 06:39:51 summon butterflies at least has the chance of working... 06:39:56 hehehe 06:40:02 oh, i see 06:40:03 hehehe 06:40:12 that would be a joke 06:40:24 change name of all spells to "summon butterflies" :D 06:40:33 when confused 06:40:41 doesn't always summon butterflies though :P 06:41:06 pity :) 06:42:34 summon butterflies is overpowered, if it always summoned butterflies while confused, everyone would take fulsome and carry !oConf as an emergancy quaff. 06:42:35 :) 06:43:07 branch! 06:43:20 ^_^ 06:44:36 there needs to be a trickster job, starts with a book of party tricks. 06:44:41 I'd play it :P 06:44:48 lol 06:47:59 Grr, what do i use for debug prints? 06:48:13 hmm - how would I bind ctrl+x to space? 06:49:18 oh, is the macroing broken for windows console builds? 06:49:31 intangible is a dodging title? i guess that makes sense... 06:49:35 erm.. for linux console 06:50:55 help? 06:51:33 ja, it's broken :-O 06:54:54 Sorry, i can't really help there :/ 06:55:30 "Input Macro Action" no longer accepts ctrl+key (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=718) by Napkin 06:56:11 i used \{24} instead of ctrl+x when inputting the macro - that still works 06:57:57 (m)acro and m(e)nu to \{24} works rather nice, dpeg 06:58:14 for space 07:03:55 -!- Madtrixr has joined ##crawl-dev 07:04:44 TRANS_PIG? theres a pig form in the game? 07:04:55 yes! :D 07:08:35 ??pig form 07:08:35 I don't have a page labeled pig_form in my learndb. 07:08:46 ??trans_pig 07:08:46 I don't have a page labeled trans_pig in my learndb. 07:08:49 ;_; 07:08:59 Wah wahhh... 07:09:00 ?? Kirke 07:09:00 kirke[1/1]: A DCSS 0.6 unique who can make you pink and rooting for truffles. 07:09:10 investigate on her, Textmode ;> 07:09:17 pemanently? 07:09:24 noooo 07:09:32 but for a while :) 07:09:47 new race: Pi 07:10:12 finally a competition for spriggan! 07:10:23 PiCK 07:10:41 obviously, you should specialise in axes. 07:11:28 PiEE, PiIE, pie, yum 07:11:37 hehe 07:12:00 and I think we need a class with the No abv. 07:12:02 NaNo 07:12:51 we have HaHu already! 07:13:47 speaking of which, have halflings stopped sucking yet? 07:13:58 HaHu rocks! 07:14:26 does any other Ha combination work? 07:31:06 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 07:31:57 hi 07:31:57 by: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 07:32:00 !messages 07:32:00 (1/2) due said (15h 5m 53s ago): Yes, sleeping berserk is currently intentional, this could change. It doesn't use hibernate because hibernate deals specifically with cold resistance and other odd things. We could just had a "don't sleep" check if berserk... 07:32:03 Moin rob :) 07:32:05 !messages 07:32:05 (1/1) dpeg said (2h 45m 34s ago): There have been no complaints about Ponderous ==> Sluggish at all, I just asked on ##crawl-dev. Can go in, I say. Do you see any obstacles? 07:32:46 nice; this is a kind of humour I was sure would cause objections 07:35:03 by: I could object now, if you'd like? 07:35:58 omg, that's a terrible choice! :> 07:36:07 j/k ;) 07:36:12 gogogo :D 07:37:11 why isn't my player_movement_speed chack working :/ 07:38:42 hmm, an extra race won't fit into item_def::flags; is an extra field of type item_race_type (new enum) the right way to go, or too wasteful? 07:39:37 03dolorous * ra8723822e3f9 10/crawl-ref/source/goditem.cc: Don't mark weapons of distortion as chaotic or potentially unholy 07:41:19 how is a weapon of distortion not chaotic? isn't that the entire point? 07:42:23 -!- Giomancer has joined ##crawl-dev 07:45:08 dpeg: currently, dragon armours and the like are explicitly prevented from being "racial" 07:45:24 :/ 07:45:34 that might be a problem 07:47:41 guess I'll add a "force" parameter to set_equip_race 07:50:59 just back 07:51:04 by: sounds good! 07:52:38 -!- Enne has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:35 Hi Enne! 07:54:04 Hi, dpeg! :) 07:55:59 Enne: we need another vote on http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=453 07:59:35 vote? 07:59:43 purge: Thanks for pointing that out. :) 08:00:10 Enne: Tiles are the last missing piece for 0.6 =) 08:00:18 Did you talk to Johannaß 08:00:36 Yeah, we had an email discussion. 08:00:50 And? 08:01:14 Perhaps we can deliver 0.6 only in a console version :) 08:01:15 I'm planning to fix the water transparency issue this weekend, and get the tabs in for the spell/item toggle next week or so. 08:01:17 :P 08:01:35 yay 08:01:45 Enne: is the Tiles Todo For 0.6 wiki page up to date? 08:02:15 back later, lunch 08:03:53 can anyone think of anything else i need to test for spell highlighting? 08:03:54 dpeg: I'm less up to date on what art is still missing. jpeg's been on top of that. 08:04:12 It does square with what I think is still needed, but you shouldn't trust me. ;) 08:04:21 or specific synergies i should add to to spell_is_useful? 08:06:09 03haranp * r578e317c959c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (contrib/lua directn.cc directn.h mon-stuff.cc mon-stuff.h): Make target(t)ing describe monster status, enchantments, etc. 08:07:19 Hm. Odd note: Halfling Artificers start with no melee weapon, while troll artificers start with a dagger. 08:07:42 hmm... 08:08:30 So, yeah. Bizzare. :P 08:08:38 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17:31 cool, enne! 08:18:17 hmm - a poll addong for mantis or the wiki maybe? would that be useful? 08:18:33 differentiating between players and devs 08:18:37 fedhas hates necromancy, what other gods hate/love specific schools? 08:18:42 which means... I can't vote :-O 08:18:59 Napkin: I have mixed feelings about that. Most decisions are more...squishy than what a poll allows for. 08:19:16 indeed 08:19:22 It could certainly be useful in some situations, though. 08:19:32 just for some occasions like that tile for fedhas 08:20:18 i'll add it to the todo list ;) 08:20:51 The new book glyph shows up borked in the command help (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=719) by jpeg 08:22:09 should I mark Conj/summ as liked by Vhumet? 08:24:17 I don't think so 08:24:29 why not? 08:24:55 personally I don't like the screen being too colorful 08:27:54 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:30:33 -!- by has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:32:25 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 08:35:35 Napkin: for polls, the mailing list is good enough 08:35:43 someone more familiar with the engine will probably figure out how to make it configurable sooner or later... 08:36:02 by: one thing occurred to me over lunch: there shouldn't be sluggish items of running 08:36:15 Textmode: not sure I like configurable 08:36:25 We had exactly the same wish with autoinscriptions. 08:36:50 well, I'm not doing it, as I don't know how... 08:36:50 ...and while the lack of options may have lost up players (Iainuki?), I still think one good default is better. 08:37:14 well, then we'll work out the kinks... 08:37:45 Napkin: can we get an update? Haran did targeting! 08:37:58 kilobyte will be happy, I hope. 08:43:43 sure 08:48:06 I am a caster with zero food... 08:48:13 Master branch on CDO updated to: 0.6.0-a1-3124-g578e317 (16.5) 08:49:04 thank you 08:49:35 Aim: A killer bee larva (resting, mindless) 08:49:39 :) 08:49:46 cool :)) 08:51:02 may have to slightly reduce the probability of xom polymorphing plants into oklobs as there are always some around the player midgame :P 08:51:44 syllogism: especially with new lair 08:51:48 yes 08:51:51 syllogism: Xom wiki page? 08:52:40 there's a check for there_are_monsters_nearby, with dangerous_only=false 08:53:03 we could just set that to true -- in that case, it would never happen when there's just plants around however 08:53:14 i'd like to see it happen but rarely 08:53:29 but I guess it's hard to get it right with the player resting a lot 08:53:30 wiki then :) 08:54:07 just change it to true :P 08:55:09 rarer is better 08:55:13 imo 08:58:10 amazingly enough the xom wiki page is like 6 pages long and there's no real feedback section :P 08:58:26 isn't there a control levitation spell? or something? 08:58:32 no 08:58:39 flight makes levitation controlled 08:58:48 ah 09:01:26 SPELL_FLY ? 09:03:32 artefacts can't be racial? 09:05:34 03j-p-e-g * r8ec5c1e69b51 10/crawl-ref/docs/develop/release.txt: release.txt: Update information about updating the website. 09:10:00 by: don't know 09:10:11 just lost my Dr to ballistos :) 09:11:03 well, the "sluggish" thing is certainly a mess 09:11:27 by: hm, there might be other ways to get there 09:11:37 for example, ponderous could be an artefact property 09:11:47 so an armour could have an ego and still get ponderous 09:11:50 would that be easierß 09:12:42 no idea 09:20:51 !tell TGW The Kikubaaqudgha vault is awesome. 09:20:51 dpeg: OK, I'll let TGW know. 09:21:28 -!- TGW has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:55 speaking with the devil 09:22:00 strange, i can't seem to select on conjuration spells... 09:22:04 03dpeg * ra5a4e97d867a 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/altar.des: Kikubaaqudgha altar vault by TGW. 09:22:20 <3 09:22:20 TGW: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:22:24 !messages 09:22:24 (1/1) dpeg said (1m 33s ago): The Kikubaaqudgha vault is awesome. 09:22:32 double <3 09:23:27 TGW: are you present in the CREDITS? 09:23:33 dpeg: yes 09:23:58 good! 09:24:12 03dpeg * rd086a66337ed 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/altar.des: Add comments and todo for new vault. 09:26:56 it just...won't match conjuration spells :/ 09:27:07 dpeg: I've added the "sluggish" thing to the Che wiki for future reference; this item property stuff is not for me 09:28:02 by: okay, thanks for looking into this. 09:28:19 I will ask around, perhaps somebody can easily do either this or the randart property. 09:29:55 minor descrepancy: mlist: hobgoblin (sleeping); targetting: A hobgoblin (resting); ctrl+x: A hobgoblin 09:31:19 Napkin: --> Haran needs to know 09:32:13 he reads the tracker, right? 09:32:39 mlist should probably say resting 09:32:40 I don't really know. You're safe if you assign to him. 09:32:59 yes, all three should say resting, I guess 09:36:11 no reported issues with Staves of conjuration? 09:38:53 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:39:11 what about them? 09:39:31 done, dpeg, thanks! 09:40:16 i know.. it was discussed elsewhere, whether ctrl+x should show status or not.. but I believe it would be cool - especially if that screen will be easier to use soon. 09:41:12 Monster status info displayed differently (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=720) by Napkin 09:41:23 st__: grepping seems to show its the only other thing in the code that uses spell_typematch with the conjuration school, and I'm having troubles matching spells of the conjuration school... 09:41:33 Oh.. I think "a scroll labeled EVAEFF STREE" just leaked to be not worth for pickup 09:41:54 could that be? is that known? 09:44:50 shouldn't have been able to use Elyvilon's Lesser Healing on this rat at least once out of 6 times? 09:44:59 or did I miss something? 09:45:20 (apart from the "I" in that first sentence..) 09:45:22 is it asleep? 09:45:36 it was wandering - 09:45:51 not sure if that's ok or not, I know it won't work if the monster is asleep 09:45:52 so i damaged it.. thought that might be necessary - then tried 4 more times 09:46:05 damaging isn't necessary 09:46:25 it just said "Nothing appears to happen." and that I feel more hungry 09:46:44 ok, good to know :) 09:47:49 Napkin: trying to pacify? 09:47:54 yes 09:48:23 I tried in wizmode a little and it seemed impossible until I got 1 invo skill 09:48:31 ?? pacify 09:48:31 healing[2/3]: (not lesser) the god power has about 25% chance of pacifying a hydra with 5 invo. With 10 invo, 69%. 09:48:39 ah, ok 09:48:41 basically its useless at lower levels 09:48:49 unless you farm the skills up :) 09:48:53 victory dance i mean 09:49:37 You have gained Invocations skill! 09:49:39 let's see :) 09:50:33 pity.. apart from "very hungry" and 6mp less.. it didn't do anything to that Goblin 09:50:43 *hobgoblin 09:51:20 animals are easier to pacify than humanoids, stick to weak animals like rats for now 09:51:36 ha, it worked on the next rat on first try :) 09:51:37 (of course mindless monsters can't be pacified at all) 09:51:39 thanks :) 09:52:45 if everything haunt summons can levitate, you should be able to haunt things over deep water 09:52:47 undead and demons are the toughest to pacify 09:57:00 dpeg: around? 09:58:38 @?? freezing wraith 09:58:38 freezing wraith (12W) | Speed: 8 | HD: 8 | Health: 24-64 | AC/EV: 12/10 | Damage: 1912(cold) | Flags: 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(42), 12cold+++, 03poison | Vul: 04fire | XP: 139. 09:59:02 by? 09:59:14 Napkin: yes? 09:59:32 I just remembered 09:59:45 @?? wraith 09:59:46 wraith (16W) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 18-48 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Damage: 1313(drain) | Flags: 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(56), 02cold, 03poison | XP: 168. 09:59:52 that you had email notifications off - and wanted to make sure you saw this report? http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=716 10:00:57 oh, do I not get announcements for all new reports anymore? 10:01:12 no - those are part of the access-level emails 10:02:51 we could tweak that, of course - but I believe pointless and doy won't be happy about that 10:03:23 pointless_, doy: do you not want to be notified of all new issues by mail? 10:03:54 Napkin: I can live with it, but thought it was nice to see every issue at least once, at which point I could decide whether or not it's of interest to me 10:04:21 Ja, I understand 10:04:31 basically. A single notification for new e-mails would be ok, but I don't want notification about every change for issues I'm not following 10:04:36 "new issues" are a special case 10:05:47 " 10:05:47 Anyway, in addition to the things listed by others, the inability to startscum to get good stats, combined with the new importance of STR may also be contributing to feeling of a tougher early game. I know this made me switch away from random combos to pre-planned combos designed to reduce stat waste/ terminally low INT. 10:05:52 I could add a "access-level emails on new issue always".. or even "always emails on new issues" (for interested reporters and updaters too. 10:06:36 the game is harder because you can't startscum as effectively :( 10:07:31 wah wah strength is important 10:07:34 fix it 10:09:53 Well, it probably is true in the sense that many combos get way lower int than you could start-scum before 10:11:29 or, all of them 10:11:36 "You miscast the spell. Nothing appears to happen. The goblin misses you." 10:11:38 that seems wrong 10:11:59 that "the goblin misses you" is being combined with a miscast 10:14:14 all happened in one turn 10:14:24 that's the goal, i think 10:16:13 -!- purge has quit [Quit: .] 10:20:48 -!- raydarken has joined ##crawl-dev 10:26:13 -!- raydarken has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:28:55 -!- raydarken has joined ##crawl-dev 10:30:07 is there an option to not collapse messages? 10:33:35 yes 10:33:38 check the changelog 10:38:21 !tell doy Beep me when you are on, please? Would like to do some more changes to the notification emails :) 10:38:21 Napkin: OK, I'll let doy know. 10:53:20 -!- qbert911 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:22 TGW: it would also be nice to collect unfitting combinations somewhere, so we could consider putting them on different channels 11:02:44 miscasts and attacks are on the same channel? 11:02:45 huh 11:03:04 yes, a lot of the code just does mpr("text"), which is some default channel 11:03:19 most colouring is text-based, not channel-based 11:03:23 ok 11:12:59 is [ getting compressed intentional? 11:13:21 I doubt it 11:13:29 -!- st__ has quit [] 11:21:09 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:29:08 I'd like to couple silence radius to the remaining duration (no problem), but not too tightly, so the remaining duration can't be read off 11:29:22 is anyone aware of some similar effect in crawl? 11:29:51 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:05 I'm thinking of storing a separate offset that walks between -3 and 3, but am hoping for a simpler solution 11:30:11 greensnark: hi! 11:30:19 Hiya :) 11:31:43 or is it not really a problem if it's deterministic? 11:34:23 18:29 <+by> I'd like to couple silence radius to the remaining duration (no problem), 11:34:27 18:29 <+by> I'd like to couple silence radius to the remaining duration (no problem) but not too tightly, so the remaining duration can't be read off 11:34:29 18:29 <+by> is anyone aware of some similar effect in crawl? 11:34:33 1greensnark: do you have an opinion? 11:34:48 (minus those extra lines...) 11:41:42 add a way to search for anything elyvilon would take as a sacrifice (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=721) by TGW 11:43:05 by: I like it 11:45:22 Napkin: Hey, I wrote the history of Stone Soup as you suggested some weeks back :) 11:45:44 I've been in bed with a nasty cold and nothing better to do 11:45:52 by: confusing touch works like that 11:46:08 "your hands are glowing [brighly/very brightly/...] 11:46:10 " 11:46:15 \o/ 11:46:18 greensnarking! 11:46:25 that's excellent! 11:46:34 It's a little long :) 11:46:40 I shall just do a quick review and post it :) 11:46:50 Cool :)) 11:46:56 don't shorten it! ;) 11:47:34 No worries :) 11:48:07 has due already told of that other idea I had for content for the wordpress? ;> 11:50:00 a new category called "Know thy enemy!" - presenting enemies (uniques? most player-kills?) with a nice description including stats and graphical tile - maybe even short advices on how to deal or "don't"s and "do"s 11:50:17 03j-p-e-g * r156979666fcd 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Replace orb guardian tile with Porkchop's new design. 11:50:29 Would anyone be interested in helping on such articles? 11:51:38 That sounds aesome 11:51:51 due writes cool articles 11:51:57 indeed :) 11:51:57 He should start with Mara :) 11:52:01 hahaha! 11:52:05 <3 Mara 11:52:28 I hope you cured your cold a bit? 11:53:45 Johanna asked today about how best to do a presentation of tiles with screenshots, etc 11:53:55 on the wordpress, I mean 11:55:22 of ALL tiles? 11:55:37 I don't think that works good on a wordpress blog 11:55:59 i meant "tiles version of crawl" 11:56:04 :-P 11:56:56 ah, in that case, thumbnails that open into normal-sized versions? 11:57:05 probably, yes 11:57:18 maybe some zoomed in situations too 11:58:09 !tell by condensing the output of things like [ and } is also quite confusing... there probably is going to need to be some way to say "don't condense these messages" 11:58:10 doy: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:58:10 doy: OK, I'll let by know. 11:58:13 !messages 11:58:13 (1/1) Napkin said (1h 19m 52s ago): Beep me when you are on, please? Would like to do some more changes to the notification emails :) 11:58:17 we'll see - i'm looking forward to that :) 11:58:24 hey doy :) 11:58:29 what's up? 11:58:39 http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-post-thumbnail/ 11:58:54 03haranp * r8613cd6b4bf2 10/crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: Fix extraneous periods in monster description prompt. 11:59:03 by and pointless would like to get "new issue" emails 11:59:13 what about you? 12:00:05 most of that is included in wordpress 2.9.1 already now, bhaak 12:00:14 but cropping is indeed nice 12:01:21 what about you, doy? would you want those? or don't mind? or definitely not? 12:01:34 hmmm 12:01:38 don't really have an opinion 12:01:53 heh 12:02:01 whatever's easies 12:02:01 greensnark, what's your opinion? 12:02:02 t 12:02:22 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:25 easiest would be to just not filter on "new issue" emails 12:02:53 but adding another option could be used also by reporters and updaters (which don't get access-level based emails) 12:03:47 -!- haranp has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:01 Hi Haran :) 12:04:04 Hi all 12:04:33 there's still some bugs to be worked out with direction code and submerged/cloud identified monsters 12:09:08 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]] 12:09:44 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:39 Sebi's game just took 3.5gb of physical and 2gb of swap ram, guys 12:11:45 ouch 12:11:54 how many turns/levels/etc? 12:12:08 don't know - immediately killed his game 12:12:34 coredump? 12:13:03 i don't manage to get core dumps in the chrooted environment somehow 12:13:41 crawl@ipx14623:~> whereis-svn.pl Sebi 12:13:42 Sebi the Magician (L1 KeAM) is currently on D:1 after 0 turns. 12:14:02 wait, so it was a brand new game? 12:14:07 i.e. an initialization bug? 12:14:15 either or 12:14:29 not sure exactly when this where file is created 12:15:41 root@ipx14623:/var/lib/dgamelaunch/crawl-svn-578e317/saves> ls -l Sebi* 12:15:41 -rw-r--r-- 1 dgl crawl 148678 Feb 6 19:12 Sebi-2002.01a 12:15:41 -rw-r--r-- 1 dgl crawl 303 Feb 6 19:12 Sebi.where 12:15:58 want to have a look inside? 12:16:14 hm 12:16:22 which version is this? 12:16:31 578e317 12:16:35 ok, send it over 12:16:38 latest, installed today 12:16:49 wait.. does it help you at all if there is no *.sav? 12:16:53 ah 12:16:54 missed that 12:16:56 no, no good then 12:17:09 I'm not much of a guru with save reconstruction tools 12:17:49 ok, I deleted it 12:17:58 good luck next game 12:18:02 heh 12:18:10 might want to look into ulimit 12:18:34 perhaps we should ulimit on startup by default? 12:18:39 yes please 12:18:52 this is very cumbersome to achive in a chroot 12:19:00 although I'm not sure about tiles 12:19:01 *achieve 12:19:11 well, what is DGL written in? 12:19:29 perl, right? 12:19:33 c 12:19:35 no, c 12:19:49 man 3 ulimit 12:20:31 ... and the first paragraph says to use setrlimit(2) instead 12:20:33 "Warning: This routine is obsolete" 12:20:34 (: 12:21:34 so we want to put this into DGL, right after fork() before exec() 12:22:46 yes 12:22:50 i'm almost certain i already did that in past 12:22:55 use setrlimit 12:23:04 but seem to have lost that code 12:24:29 it's only forking for the editors and in ttyrec.c 12:24:49 Crawl tries to do setrlimit itself 12:24:51 we can have it in Crawl itself too, in #ifdef DGAMELAUNCH. 12:25:13 As long as you don't have the game setgid or similar, it should try to dump core 12:25:26 it's not 12:25:47 but since I can't manage to set limits in the chroot, i can't raise the core dump size either :D 12:25:49 by: The new messagewindow message combining is awesome <3 12:25:51 only for RLIMIT_CORE 12:26:05 and only if DGL_ENABLE_CORE_DUMP is set 12:26:17 it does try to _disable_ the limit, too 12:26:35 never seen that DGL_ENABLE_CORE_DUMP option :-O 12:26:45 I think that's defined by default for dgl builds 12:26:49 (since on modern Unices by default ulimit -c is 0 soft, some big value hard) 12:29:08 having ulimit for all Crawl builds is a bad idea since tiles are very likely to load a huge slew of libraries that mmap a load of files and possibly share memory with the X server 12:29:44 for non-tiles, it's probably not a bad idea, and for DGL, definitely a good one 12:29:49 yeah, should just be for dgl 12:30:02 (or really, dgl should just ulimit things itself) 12:30:15 -!- by has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30:53 what coredump size is needed for crawl? 12:31:07 Napkin: do you share DGL sources with rax? 12:31:36 no 12:31:41 Coredump limit around 100M sounds like enough 12:31:54 uuuh 12:31:58 Much larger and a naughty crawl will fill your disk with cores :P 12:32:00 then i should not enable it at all ;) 12:32:07 100mb is enough to do that already :D 12:32:18 Are crashes that common? :) 12:32:43 luckily no :) 12:34:10 Posted: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/?p=304 12:34:13 :P 12:34:17 on a 64 bit machine, I get cores just below 15MB 12:34:41 awesome, greensnark :)) 12:34:48 thank you very much! 12:34:51 dpeg: I'm flattered, but it was actually mostly Iainuki 12:35:17 I should linkify those links 12:35:41 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:00 haha, tina hall 12:37:03 what a nutjob 12:37:35 :) 12:37:45 She was actually not all crazy :) 12:37:54 But yeah, she was pretty crazy 12:38:50 !tell due http://www.it-is-law.com/dump/0001-Monster-XP-tweaks-second-pass.patch (In case you missed it the first time; I also added 3 more since you hadn't patched it in yet. Exactl details for changes are on http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:feedback:monster:experience 12:38:50 Twinge: OK, I'll let due know. 12:39:07 greensnark: now that direction() is actually manageable, I can start looking into other 1500-line functions (like the current shopping code...) 12:39:15 should darts of dispersal let you blink plants? 12:39:26 reading about the map code reminded me of that :) 12:39:37 @??black bear 12:39:37 black bear (02U) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 18-36 | AC/EV: 2/8 | Damage: 4, 4, 4 | Res: 06magic(24) | XP: 140 | Sp: berserker rage. 12:39:39 @??bear 12:39:40 bear (07U) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 21-42 | AC/EV: 4/4 | Damage: 10, 6, 6 | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 198 | Sp: berserker rage. 12:39:57 haranp: Nice work on direction() :) 12:40:14 direction() was scary, eugh 12:40:58 and it appears that all regressions since the old code that I noticed are fixed now, too! 12:41:13 submerged monsters still don't show up 12:41:20 but that will be fixed in around 10 minutes :) 12:41:21 crawl's level compiler was new in stone soup? 12:41:22 wow 12:41:43 doy: yeah, I remember wading through the vault code 12:42:10 that sounds pretty horrific 12:42:43 beta26 maps.cc consisted of one function per vault 12:42:48 but it wasn't really code 12:43:10 stuff like strcpy(map_lines[4], "==9889=="); 12:44:55 Anyone know how random zombie types are determined? (e.g. 'hobogoblin zombie') It seems like Wyvern zombies are still showing up a bit too early 12:45:06 dpeg: is a silence nerf ok for 0.6? 12:45:06 by: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:45:09 !messages 12:45:09 (1/1) doy said (47m ago): condensing the output of things like [ and } is also quite confusing... there probably is going to need to be some way to say "don't condense these messages" 12:46:12 doy: yes, looks like it; overall this condensing seems to be worth doing, right? 12:46:20 yes, definitely 12:47:08 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 12:47:54 03haranp * r8918365ffe4b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (directn.cc directn.h): Handle monsters exposed via clouds and shallow water. 12:48:38 night all 12:48:41 night 12:49:31 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:50:43 twinge: _pick_local_zombifiable_monster_type seems like a good guess 12:51:05 or _define_zombie 12:53:47 and if you change either of them, do me a favour and have one call the other 12:53:52 and smack evktalo while you're at it :) 12:56:15 I'll take a look. (Though I probably will be unable to do any major changes on my own; my C skills are pretty weak.) 12:57:28 is there a tool which prints out functions by how many lines of code they are? 12:57:46 I want to know if to tackle _handle_monster_move, or shopping, or whatever 12:59:42 !source _pick_local_zombifiable_monster_type 12:59:49 Couldn't find _pick_local_zombifiable_monster_type in the Crawl source tree 12:59:54 !function _pick_local_zombifiable_monster_type 12:59:57 Couldn't find _pick_local_zombifiable_monster_type in the Crawl source tree 13:00:02 !function pick_local_zombifiable_monster_type 13:00:04 !source pick_local_zombifiable_monster_type 13:00:10 Couldn't find pick_local_zombifiable_monster_type in the Crawl source tree 13:00:10 Couldn't find pick_local_zombifiable_monster_type in the Crawl source tree 13:00:15 Curses 13:00:19 it's in mon-place.cc:1594 13:00:25 K. 13:01:39 objdump -t crawl | awk '{print $5 " " $6}' | sort -r | grep '^0' | cut -b 10- | c++filt | less 13:01:46 that might work 13:01:57 depends on platform 13:02:12 haranp: could just take henzell's !source function and do things with it 13:02:18 but that's pretty hacky 13:02:30 on ELF systems, for some reason I haven't quite figured out, every code symbol is tagged with the number of bytes in the corresponding function 13:03:14 Hmm. I see a note in the code that says zombies should be same depth as the normal mobs. Where are the mob depths defined? (Not in mon-data where I'd expect) 13:03:40 mon-pick.cc 13:03:42 mon-pick.cc 13:04:40 Ah. 13:09:20 -!- eith_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:11:49 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:12:36 -!- haranp has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:16:25 "habitat" means more like branches and stuff, not depth, right? 13:16:56 terrain type IIRC 13:17:19 Yeah, habitat == water for fish, lava for lava worms and similar 13:18:10 Oh, gotcha. 13:23:28 Bleh, so zombie spawns are purely based on the zombie size value - which should be used for, well, the zombie's size, but instead wolf spiders (for example) will have to be "big" zombies otherwise they'll spawn too early. 13:24:12 purely? 13:24:38 what size are red draconians? I've never seen a red draconian zombie on D:2 13:24:51 draconians are not a large race 13:25:05 but medium zombies are big Z's 13:25:08 yeah? 13:25:17 @??human zombie 13:25:17 human zombie (07z) | Speed: 8 | HD: 7 | Health: 6-98 | AC/EV: 0/7 | Damage: 8 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(1), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 73. 13:25:22 ermph 13:25:26 @??red draconian zombie 13:25:27 red draconian zombie (07z) | Speed: 8 | HD: 14 | Health: 101-134 | AC/EV: 7/5 | Damage: 16 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(1), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 500. 13:25:29 ok you're right 13:25:32 Hmm 13:25:48 Well I could easily be wrong, but that *seems* to be the case anyway. 13:26:33 Simulacrums are the same depth no matter the size, and are both deeper than both zombies for whatever reason 13:27:13 Twinge: there are two branches of the zombie-picker depending on whether you're in a branch like Crypt with no loving monsters 13:27:56 * doy feels like he's in somethingawful for some reason 13:29:35 Gently caress the Crypt 13:29:43 * Twinge snickers 13:29:59 TGW: zombie size is a seperate value, completely seperate from the monster's actual size value. 13:30:06 @??wolf spider zombie 13:30:06 wolf spider zombie (07Z) | Speed: 13 | HD: 8 | Health: 55-79 | AC/EV: 1/5 | Damage: 16 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(8), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 337. 13:31:37 sorear: Draconians don't spawn in the dungeon at all, only by vault. The type of zombie is still weighted by probability of the normal types I believe. 13:32:27 so quicksilver dragon zombies and ogre zombies start appearing at the same depth? really? 13:32:57 -!- greensnark has quit [Quit: Night] 13:34:03 couldn't it just pick an eligible monster and make a zombie of it 13:34:20 -!- SiberSchool has joined ##crawl-dev 13:34:33 if it did that, it should pick an eligible monster for a few dlvls up 13:34:55 since zombies are significantly easier 13:35:00 like, vaults already do that 13:35:12 place:d:6 zombie, etc 13:35:18 Doesn't it already do that? I've never seen a D:4 wyvern 13:35:18 -!- Twinge- has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:20 That's my current theory anyway. But that depth is fairly deep; same as Rakashas, Vampires, Slime Creatures. 13:35:28 it probably does 13:35:39 (Bleh what did I miss) 13:35:52 http://tozt.net/crawl/%23%23crawl-dev-20100206.log 13:35:53 d: 13:35:55 Also skeletons, despite being weaker than zombies, have a higher DL than both types of zombies 13:35:56 Oh right 13:36:40 ogaz: There can be D:5 and D:6 wyvern zombies for sure. 13:36:48 I just saw 2 people die to them :P 13:36:58 Twinge-: that was my point, I've never seen a living wyvern that early 13:37:04 !lg * killer=wyvern min=dlvl 13:37:05 Unknown selector: dlvl 13:37:08 !lg * killer=wyvern min=depth 13:37:09 Unknown selector: depth 13:37:14 !lg * killer=wyvern min=place 13:37:14 318. Jhav the Magician (L2 MuWz), demolished by a wyvern on D:1 on 2009-08-31, with 85 points after 4176 turns and 0:02:47. 13:37:16 !lg * killer=wyvern br=d min=lvl 13:37:16 309. Jhav the Magician (L2 MuWz), demolished by a wyvern on D:1 on 2009-08-31, with 85 points after 4176 turns and 0:02:47. 13:37:21 !lg * killer=wyvern min=place cv>=0.4 13:37:21 228. Jhav the Magician (L2 MuWz), demolished by a wyvern on D:1 on 2009-08-31, with 85 points after 4176 turns and 0:02:47. 13:37:26 !lg * killer=wyvern br=d min=lvl race!=mu 13:37:27 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:37:27 291. dirge23 the Magician (L3 DEWz), slain by a wyvern on D:2 on 2008-12-24, with 141 points after 1632 turns and 0:12:47. 13:37:34 !lg * killer=wyvern br=d min=lvl race!=mu cv>=0.4 13:37:34 209. dirge23 the Magician (L3 DEWz), slain by a wyvern on D:2 on 2008-12-24, with 141 points after 1632 turns and 0:12:47. 13:37:54 !lg * killer=wyvern br=d min=lvl race!=mu cv>=0.4 -2 13:37:54 208. Silwyr the Chiller (L3 DEIE), slain by a wyvern on D:2 on 2010-02-02, with 105 points after 1593 turns and 0:06:12. 13:37:58 !lg * killer=wyvern br=d min=lvl race!=mu cv>=0.4 -3 13:37:59 207. pointless the Grave Robber (L4 DSDK), demolished by a wyvern on D:3 on 2008-08-05, with 133 points after 3532 turns and 0:09:08. 13:38:18 -!- Siber has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:38:20 what 13:38:25 !lg * killer=wyvern zombie br=d min=lvl race!=mu cv>=0.4 13:38:26 475. ekaterin the Skirmisher (L2 VpCK), worshipper of Xom, slain by a wyvern zombie on D:1 on 2008-11-04, with 120 points after 1427 turns and 0:05:39. 13:38:31 !lg * killer=wyvern zombie br=d min=lvl race!=mu cv>=0.4 -2 13:38:32 474. eyhung the Believer (L4 MDHe), worshipper of Elyvilon, mangled by a wyvern zombie on D:2 on 2008-08-07, with 341 points after 2962 turns and 0:09:47. 13:38:34 !lg * killer=wyvern zombie br=d min=lvl race!=mu cv>=0.4 -3 13:38:35 473. Eifeltrampel the Skirmisher (L3 MDFi), slain by a wyvern zombie on D:2 on 2010-01-04, with 96 points after 985 turns and 0:02:29. 13:39:11 yikes, doy :P 13:39:22 !lg * killer=wyvern s=lvl race!=mu cv>=0.5 13:39:23 114 games for * (killer=wyvern race!=mu cv>=0.5): 32x 8, 26x 9, 18x 10, 9x 11, 7x 7, 5x 4, 4x 12, 3x 6, 3x 15, 2x 2, 2x 3, 2x 5, 1x 14 13:39:25 !lg * killer=wyvern zombie s=lvl race!=mu cv>=0.5 13:39:26 231 games for * (killer=wyvern zombie race!=mu cv>=0.5): 88x 5, 52x 6, 28x 7, 12x 4, 12x 3, 10x 2, 9x 9, 9x 8, 4x 10, 3x 11, 2x 12, 1x 15, 1x 14 13:39:44 ##crawl-listgame 13:39:45 so yeah, zombies do show up earlier 13:42:15 Single line message for summons do not colour properly (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=722) by GrimmSweeper 13:42:40 Right now I think this is only a major issue with wyverns. But really, the whole system needs an overhaul :/ 13:43:04 e.g. skeletons appear way later, give more exp, but are strictly weaker... 13:43:33 yeah, that skeleton thing is messed up 13:44:31 I can make a patch to make them appear sooner, but I still have no idea where the XP madness is hiding 13:44:38 !lg * killer=quicksilver dragon zombie s=lvl 13:44:39 7 games for * (killer=quicksilver dragon zombie): 4x 1, 1x 2, 1x 7, 1x 16 13:44:52 !lg * killer=quicksilver dragon zombie s=place 13:44:54 7 games for * (killer=quicksilver dragon zombie): 7x Abyss 13:44:54 !lg * killer=ogre zombie s=lvl 13:44:55 7 games for * (killer=ogre zombie): 2x 2, 2x 11, 1x 8, 1x 12, 1x 10 13:45:15 !lg * killer=ogre zombie s=place 13:45:16 7 games for * (killer=ogre zombie): 2x D:2, 2x D:11, 1x D:8, 1x D:12, 1x D:10 13:45:30 why do quicksilver dragon zombies not show up in the dungeon? 13:45:37 !lg * killer=yaktaur zombie s=place 13:45:41 No games for * (killer=yaktaur zombie). 13:45:43 I think I've seen them in crypt 13:46:00 sorear: Very good question. I'm not sure. 13:47:09 -!- Ero_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:40 sorear: they probably d 13:47:41 o 13:47:47 at about the same rate as quicksilver dragons 13:47:54 (which is effectively nonexistent) 13:48:32 !lg * killer=titan zombie s=place 13:48:32 14 games for * (killer=titan zombie): 2x Abyss, 2x Crypt:5, 1x Crypt:4, 1x Vault:7, 1x Snake:2, 1x Orc:4, 1x Orc:2, 1x D:11, 1x Snake:1, 1x D:27, 1x D:1, 1x D:18 13:48:33 !lg * killer=quicksilver dragon br=d cv>=0.4 s=lvl 13:48:34 10 games for * (killer=quicksilver dragon br=d cv>=0.4): 2x 16, 2x 17, 1x 15, 1x 7, 1x 27, 1x 14, 1x 19, 1x 23 13:48:37 quicksilver dragons are so rare because they're native to D:31 or D:36 13:48:40 !lg * killer=quicksilver dragon br=d cv>=0.4 13:48:41 10. mafalda the Hacker (L15 MiBe), worshipper of Trog, blasted by a quicksilver dragon (bolt of energy) on D:17 on 2009-10-04, with 76292 points after 26594 turns and 2:06:03. 13:48:46 sorear: yeah 13:48:48 D:30 13:48:52 also they have a rarity of like 3 13:48:55 i think 13:48:56 but Twinge says that doesn't matter 13:49:09 Twinge-: the level numbers in mon-pick.cc are 0-based 13:49:11 !lg * killer=iron dragon zombie s=place 13:49:11 2 games for * (killer=iron dragon zombie): 1x Abyss, 1x Elf:1 13:49:12 13:31 < Twinge> sorear: Draconians don't spawn in the dungeon at all, only by vault. The type of zombie is still weighted by probability of the normal types I believe. 13:49:18 that's not how i read that 13:49:41 doy: ah, I read that as "only probability matters, not depth" 13:49:56 well, obviously depth matters 13:50:02 just looking at the killsby stats 13:52:08 Er? 13:52:18 I am not sure depth does matter though - beyond all small zombies being D:9 and all large zombies being D:16. What are you seeing that says it does? 13:52:35 "gameplay experience" 13:52:35 (: 13:52:40 i could be wrong! 13:53:09 Nod. 13:53:18 did you ever find where hd and exp values for zombies and skeletons are set? 13:53:20 !lg * killer=storm dragon zombie s=place 13:53:21 5 games for * (killer=storm dragon zombie): 2x Abyss, 1x Crypt:1, 1x Crypt:2, 1x Tomb:1 13:53:29 I did not. 13:53:55 HD is the same as the base monster for everything except humans that I've seen, though; so that is probably special cased 13:54:11 shouldn't slaves want to get out of the dungeon? 13:54:36 once they're free 13:55:30 TGW: uh who says their home isn't the dungeon 13:55:32 !lg * killer=shadow dragon zombie s=place 13:55:33 2 games for * (killer=shadow dragon zombie): 1x Tar:7, 1x Abyss 13:55:34 plenty of humans live there 13:55:52 @??wyvern zombie 13:55:53 wyvern zombie (07z) | Speed: 13 | HD: 5 | Health: 32-53 | AC/EV: 3/5 | Damage: 16 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(1), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 109. 13:56:24 Speed 13, AC-3, 16 damage is pretty terrifying on ~D:4 13:56:37 And then they give you crap XP to boot :P 13:56:48 @??human zombie 13:56:48 human zombie (07z) | Speed: 8 | HD: 7 | Health: 6-98 | AC/EV: 0/7 | Damage: 8 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(1), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 73. 13:57:04 AC +3 13:57:43 ero_: neutral things don't ever live in the dungeon 13:57:53 TGW: Butterflies! 13:57:55 everything in the dungeon is pleasantly united in killing you 13:58:00 butterflies are hostile 13:58:01 hmmm 13:58:05 they're just not very good at it 13:58:13 TGW: walls 13:58:26 Ero_ earth elementals 13:58:33 actually, I don't think butterflies are hostile(though butterfly zombies are) 13:58:45 ogaz: they're permanently confused 13:58:46 but hostile 13:58:54 permanently confused and have no way to attack 13:59:06 Twinge-: the randomized hd for human zombies is likely because it's generating a normal human 13:59:13 and then zombifying it 13:59:22 6-98 13:59:23 wtf? 13:59:34 base humans, elves, and draconians get randomized hd 13:59:39 Ah ha. 13:59:53 elves didn't look so far off, though I didn't look at draconians 13:59:56 the maximum is sixteen times the minimum 13:59:57 @??draconian 13:59:57 draconian (07d) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 42-70 | AC/EV: 9/10 | Damage: 15 | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(9) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 579. 13:59:59 @??draconian zombie 13:59:59 draconian zombie (07z) | Speed: 8 | HD: 7 | Health: 23-116 | AC/EV: 6/4 | Damage: 12 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(1), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 110. 13:59:59 @??human 13:59:59 human (15@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 15-40 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Damage: 10 | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 264. 14:00:42 human zombie min hp is 2/5 of human min, human zombie mhp is 5/2 of human mhp 14:00:51 while poetic, it's also very silly 14:01:11 i'm not incredibly sure @?? stats should be taken as absolutely accurate for some of this 14:01:16 true 14:01:33 Yeah, I'm looking at human zombies in game. 14:01:45 The XP was still definitely off for skels/zombies in game though, already looked at that 14:02:22 -!- eith_ is now known as eith 14:03:14 yeah, _define_zombie calls define_monster to set up basically all the stats 14:03:29 so define_monster never actually creates zombies 14:03:35 so that hd stuff in there isn't actually used 14:03:39 (i think) 14:03:56 The HP values Gretell gives are accurate 14:04:02 I remember someone saying that zombies get an additional -20% exp or something 14:04:03 yeah 14:04:15 ogaz: well, they're 20% slower 14:04:21 so there's that 14:04:58 @??ogre zombie 14:04:58 ogre zombie (07Z) | Speed: 8 | HD: 5 | Health: 32-53 | AC/EV: 0/1 | Damage: 14 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(8), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 34. 14:05:02 @??ogre skeleton 14:05:03 ogre skeleton (15Z) | Speed: 8 | HD: 5 | Health: 26-43 | AC/EV: 0/0 | Damage: 14 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(0), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 50. 14:05:44 @??ogre 14:05:45 ogre (07O) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 15-40 | AC/EV: 1/6 | Damage: 17 | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 120. 14:05:56 zombies were special cased somewhere to give crap XP that skeletons weren't, basically 14:06:05 yeah, probably 14:06:25 -!- raydarken1 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:09:20 It'd be something like 35% or so, geez. (with skels making up some of that difference by having less HP) 14:09:43 -!- raydarken has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:09:46 hah 14:09:55 it's actually in the most obvious place ever 14:10:14 exper_value? 14:10:14 exp_mod for zombies is 6, for skeletons it's 10 14:10:47 Oh hell 14:10:56 I really thought I hcecked that, seriously 14:11:00 :( 14:11:15 simulacra are also 6 14:11:17 Yep 14:11:21 skeletons should just get bumped down to 6 14:11:38 I dunno, they already take a hit if they have less speed anyway 14:11:42 And you have stuff like 14:11:45 @??wyvern zombie 14:11:45 wyvern zombie (07z) | Speed: 13 | HD: 5 | Health: 32-53 | AC/EV: 3/5 | Damage: 16 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(1), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 109. 14:11:50 Only worth 109 14:11:58 I'll take a look at it, add it to my XP patch 14:12:30 Maybe 8 for both of them or something, I'll examine some examples 14:12:36 shrug, i think for now, bumping skeletons down to 6 is the most reasonable solution 14:13:32 !lg * killer=~skeleton s=killer 14:13:33 how much would they be worth at 10? 14:13:33 343 games for * (killer=~skeleton): 168x a grey snake skeleton, 40x a stone giant skeleton, 15x a spiny worm skeleton, 10x a titan skeleton, 7x a merfolk skeleton, 6x a shadow dragon skeleton, 6x an anaconda skeleton, 6x a rock troll skeleton, 5x a frost giant skeleton, 5x a fire giant skeleton, 5x a hill giant skeleton, 5x an iron troll skeleton, 4x a quicksilver dragon skeleton, 4x a death yak s... 14:13:38 !lg * killer=~zombie s=killer 14:13:39 2325 games for * (killer=~zombie): 669x a wyvern zombie, 298x a killer bee zombie, 202x a giant frog zombie, 130x a yellow wasp zombie, 126x a giant lizard zombie, 88x a giant goldfish zombie, 70x a giant iguana zombie, 61x a brown snake zombie, 60x a giant blowfly zombie, 57x a grey snake zombie, 45x a stone giant zombie, 44x a giant ant zombie, 30x a hound zombie, 25x a scorpion zombie, 24x a ro... 14:13:53 do skeletons not spawn until later? 14:14:02 ogaz: The reason for that is because skeletons only appear by the time ICE DRAGONS appear 14:14:05 if so, why? 14:14:20 Which leads me to my next question - should I go ahead and patch in making skeletons appear sooner too, or should that be a seperate patch? 14:15:13 also: why do zombies and simulacra have hit dice definitions, but skeletons don't? 14:15:30 ??zombie[2] 14:15:30 zombie[2/2]: All derived undead are -2 speed (min 3). Zombies are AC/EV -2/-5, d5+5 hit die; skeletons -6/-7, d4+4; simulacra -2/-5, d4, AF_COLD; spectral things +2/-5, d4+3, AF_DRAIN. 14:16:02 doy: Remember how I mentioned all this needs a complete overhaul? ;) 14:16:17 right, skeletons, zombies, and simulacra all have their hit dice ignored and replaced in _define_zombie 14:16:42 but in their monster definition in mon-data.h, zombies and simulcra also have their own hit dice 14:17:11 I'm guessing zombies were just monsters called 'zombies' at some point in the distant past, maybe. And some of that got left over but overwritten elsewhere 14:17:15 Not sureobviouslyu 14:17:20 also, define_monster includes a section for messing with zombie hd specifically 14:17:31 doesn't do anything to skeletons or simulacra 14:17:40 Twinge-: yeah, that's possible 14:17:44 sorear: ^^ 14:17:44 ? 14:18:51 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 14:19:52 in 1.05, zombies were derived 14:19:58 like they are now 14:20:10 large zombies are speed 6, small zombies speed 7 14:20:41 hp is overriden, hd and most other stats are copied 14:20:59 selection is very simple: 14:21:01 do 14:21:01 { 14:21:01 mons_sec [bk] = random3(52); 14:21:01 } while (xmons_zombie_size((int) mons_sec [bk]) == 0 | xmons_zombie_size((int) mons_sec [bk]) == not_zombsize); 14:21:06 Hah 14:21:18 heh 14:21:58 sorear: Should I make each type of change its own patch, or combine elements together into one patch? 14:27:02 commit between each change 14:27:03 then do 14:27:53 by: man, this message condensation is awesome 14:27:59 git format-patch - --stdout 14:28:04 walking over piles of items no longer requires pressing space all the time 14:30:21 hmmm 14:30:22 Aim: A big kobold zombie (mindless) 14:30:23 (mindless) is unnecessary here 14:31:06 yeah, zombies are always mindless 14:31:25 in particular, anything mindless will always be mindless 14:31:39 Can I generate random monsters based on DL in debug mode? 14:31:47 cast shadow creatures? 14:31:48 (: 14:31:53 &M place:D:5 I think 14:32:09 cool. 14:32:31 I'd say: status effects should be shown only if they can differ between instances of the monster. "confused" is ok (temporary). "friendly" is ok (semi-permanent but differs between instances). "mindless" is bad (no new information). 14:32:41 kilobyte: yes 14:32:51 where did the term DL come from anyway 14:33:17 dlev 14:33:29 'dungeon level' 14:33:33 it's still so much better than you.your_level (WTF!?!) 14:34:06 it still means 'danger level' to me ;) 14:35:36 I also wonder where *that* came from 14:36:03 I think it might've been Vlad's wording, but I'm not sure 14:39:59 Don't suppose I can combine parameters for monster creation? e.g. 'zombie, place:D:2' (which doesn't work) 14:40:21 the comma isn't correct 14:40:30 any zombie place:D:2 maybe? 14:41:36 just 'zombie place:D:2' 14:41:44 large zombie? 14:41:59 nope, that doesn't work 14:43:05 ah ha 14:43:10 "place:D:2 zombie" 14:43:13 have to do it in that order 14:44:16 "zombie place:D:2" works 14:44:38 Er? I tried that first and it didn't work. 14:44:43 you had a comma 14:44:48 I tried it with and without. 14:44:51 maybe you forgot to capitalize D 14:44:53 shrug, works for me 14:44:54 03kilobyte * rfad7d4bcc8b0 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: Forbid amphibious monsters from submerging in floor. 14:45:19 doy: actually, walking over big piles of items shouldn't ever have caused more prompts if I read the code correctly 14:45:44 by: maybe i'm just thinking of walking over piles of items while other things are happening 14:45:47 or something 14:45:56 in any case, i'm getting basically no prompts at all now 14:45:58 which is great 14:45:59 maybe, yes; it may have been buggy also, however 14:46:03 The hell? Huh it works now. D has to be captilizaed or it won't create anything; it was jsut creating random D:2 mobs. 14:46:15 shrug 14:46:28 Twinge-: yeah, sometimes it gives you an error, sometimes it just creates random monsters when it fails 14:46:31 not sure what's up with that 14:47:26 !lg * killer=*zombie place=D:2 race!=mu cv>=0.5 14:47:27 No games for * (killer=*zombie place=D:2 race!=mu cv>=0.5). 14:47:37 ^Any way to do that? 14:47:43 ~ 14:47:50 _define_zombie() has "chance = (ignore_rarity) ? 100 : mons_rarity(cls) - (diff * diff) / 2;" 14:48:02 where diff = mons_level(cls) - 4 - power 14:48:14 !lg * killer=~zombie place=D:2 race!=mu cv>=0.5 14:48:22 96. clouded the Insei (L3 VpTm), slain by a killer bee zombie on D:2 on 2010-02-05, with 131 points after 1374 turns and 0:02:57. 14:48:53 !lg * turn>4000 place:d:1 cv=~0.6 name!=syllogism 14:49:08 4717. wya the Grappler (L13 DSTm), worshipper of Xom, demolished by the royal jelly on Slime:6 on 2010-02-06, with 49299 points after 28770 turns and 3:33:15. 14:49:13 err 14:49:17 !lg * turn>4000 place=d:1 cv=~0.6 name!=syllogism 14:49:17 place= 14:49:25 124. fiyawerx the Charlatan (L4 MuAr), slain by a yaktaur (a +0,+0 whip) (led by a yaktaur captain) on D:1 on 2010-02-04, with 117 points after 12007 turns and 0:10:46. 14:49:32 heh 14:49:42 124?? 14:49:44 !lg * turn>4000 place=d:1 cv=~0.6 name!=syllogism s=name 14:49:51 124 games for * (turn>4000 place=d:1 cv=~0.6 name!=syllogism): 61x KiloByte, 34x heteroy, 9x clouded, 8x meneril, 2x Azeral, 2x fiyawerx, 1x FilthyApe, 1x rob, 1x Stathol, 1x Vizrt, 1x sanka, 1x nyaakitty, 1x Baccano, 1x Dana 14:50:01 !lg * turn>4000 place=d:1 cv=~0.6 name!=syllogism s=killer 14:50:04 124 games for * (turn>4000 place=d:1 cv=~0.6 name!=syllogism): 16x a kobold, 15x , 12x a hobgoblin, 10x an orc wizard, 5x a snake, 4x a gnoll, 4x an orc priest, 4x a giant ant, 4x a goblin, 3x a worm, 3x a chaos spawn, 3x a centaur, 3x an ogre, 3x an orc, 2x a ynoxinul, 2x a giant gecko, 2x a hound, 2x a neqoxec, 2x an orange demon, 2x a beast, 2x a jackal, 1x a smoke demon, 1x a small snake, 1x a... 14:50:11 !lg * turn>4000 place=d:1 cv=~0.6 name!=syllogism s=-killer 14:50:15 124 games for * (turn>4000 place=d:1 cv=~0.6 name!=syllogism): 1x a smoke demon, 1x a small snake, 1x an ice devil, 1x a white imp, 1x a giant newt, 1x a stone giant, 1x an oklob plant, 1x a red devil, 1x a reaper, 1x a yaktaur captain, 1x a yaktaur, 1x a small abomination, 1x a hellwing, 1x a tormentor, 1x a spatial vortex, 1x an imp, 1x an ogre mage, 1x a hellion, 1x a sixfirhy, 1x a rat, 1x a s... 14:50:33 lots of miscasts and god wraths 14:50:39 03j-p-e-g * re020215c2eb4 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godabil.cc main.cc religion.cc religion.h wiz-you.cc): Experimentally use the piety pool for large piety gains (Jiyva, Ely). 14:50:40 03j-p-e-g * r4d1fc6ff49f6 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-you.cc: Fix typo. 14:50:43 03j-p-e-g * r83cab0675cdd 10/crawl-ref/source/food.cc: Prefer swapping to a butchery tool to unequipping gloves. 14:51:27 Ah, looks like killer bee is another small zombie super threat like wyverns. I guess they have to be big zombies too 14:51:48 what? 14:52:02 killer bees are small though 14:52:09 that doesn't make sense 14:52:19 or, we could stop screwing with the zombie sizes and make the generation logical 14:52:27 what tgw said 14:52:30 Yes. but zombie spawns are based on the zombie size, so the only way to limit what type of zombies spawn early right now is by making them big zombies 14:52:43 TGW: Can that be done in time for 0.6 though? 14:52:59 do we really have to limit them. As in we can wait until zombie sizes are fixed 14:53:12 I'm basically lookng at fixing the major issues in patchwork fashion right now. 14:53:15 Could make all everything over a certain weight large, and everything under that weight small 14:53:22 ogaz: monsters have actual sizes 14:53:26 ogaz, or use actual size 14:53:34 syllogism: Well I'm already overhauling the sizes and weights anyway, it'd be trivial to temp-fix the zombie issues 14:53:36 Oh, didn't realize that 14:53:44 I'm not sure if it's an issue 14:53:56 syllogism: Wyvern zombies on D:2 is an issue IMO 14:54:10 shrug 14:54:12 !lg syllogism killer=~wyvern s=killer 14:54:13 2 games for syllogism (killer=~wyvern): 1x a wyvern, 1x a wyvern zombie 14:54:20 d:2 can have killer bees too 14:54:28 !lg * killer=killer bee zombie s=place 14:54:28 298 games for * (killer=killer bee zombie): 99x D:5, 45x D:6, 44x D:2, 33x D:4, 31x D:3, 20x D:7, 7x D:8, 6x D:1, 5x D:10, 3x D:9, 2x D:12, 2x D:11, 1x Temple 14:54:32 !lg * place=D:2 killer=killer bee 14:54:32 10. deathshade the Skirmisher (L3 KoCK), worshipper of Xom, slain by a killer bee on D:2 on 2009-08-25, with 172 points after 1149 turns and 0:04:09. 14:54:38 !lg * place=D:2 killer=killer bee s=god 14:54:38 10 games for * (place=D:2 killer=killer bee): 7x , 2x Xom, 1x The Shining One 14:54:41 hm 14:54:48 nice 14:54:52 Extremely rarely. 14:54:58 i mean, this isn't a recent regression or anything 14:55:01 D:1 can have centaurs, extremely rarely 14:55:07 so i don't think it's really urgent for 0.6 14:55:09 !lg * killer=~wyvern zombie 14:55:15 670. mafalda the Cleaver (L8 MiBe), worshipper of Trog, slain by a wyvern zombie on D:6 on 2010-02-06, with 1473 points after 4862 turns and 0:20:00. 14:55:19 !lg * killer=~wyvern zombie s=place 14:55:19 and we can overhaul the generation in a more sane way for later 14:55:22 670 games for * (killer=~wyvern zombie): 238x D:5, 156x D:6, 74x D:7, 55x D:4, 36x D:8, 29x D:3, 28x D:9, 22x D:2, 12x D:10, 7x D:11, 5x D:12, 2x D:1, 2x D:13, 1x D:15, 1x D:14, 1x Crypt:2, 1x Temple 14:55:22 doy: It's an eas fix, and it's been complained about for a long long time. 14:55:31 Twinge-: but it's a bad fix 14:55:31 22x d:2 is rare 14:55:40 making killer bee zombies large doesn't make any sense 14:55:43 killer bees are more common 14:55:54 doy: Agree, it does need a complete overhaul, and I doubt anyone will be up for completely overhauling it before D:6. 14:55:57 no they aren't 14:56:01 it doesn't look like wyvern zombies are any rarer than any other ood 14:56:05 err 14:56:07 any more common 14:56:31 the issue with wyverns and wyvern zombies 14:56:39 is that they are approximately the same strength 14:56:46 since wyverns have no special abilities 14:56:55 is that an issue 14:56:56 and so wyverns are pretty easy by the time they start spawning 14:57:08 but wyvern zombies are tougher because they show up early 14:57:12 syllogism: i don't think so 14:57:16 Well Wyvern zombies clearly should be large, I don't really know why they aren't. 14:57:18 gretell says wyvern zombies have more health, lol 14:57:20 i'm just saying, that's why they get pointed out so much 14:57:40 syllogism: Maybe not; I just hate near auto-lose situations, even if early. 14:58:10 very rare auto-lose situations, sigmund is a much bigger problem :P 14:58:41 Sigmund is speed 10. 14:58:48 he is still harder 14:58:54 But easier to escape from. 14:59:06 he has slow, confuse, and invisibility 14:59:11 and appears much more often 14:59:11 i'd say that's harder to escape from 14:59:23 even if you only include the cases where he confuses you on turn 1 15:00:00 he doesn't unfortunately have slow 15:00:08 oh 15:00:11 @??sigmund 15:00:11 Sigmund (08@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 3 | Health: 30 | AC/EV: 0/11 | Damage: 5 | Flags: spellcaster | Res: 06magic(12) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 104 | Sp: throw flame, confuse, invisibility, magic dart. 15:00:20 guess i was thinking of jessica 15:00:41 !lm uniq=sigmund 15:00:43 53. [2010-01-29] doy the Conjurer (L8 KeCj) killed Sigmund on turn 8896. (D:3) 15:00:48 !lm uniq=sigmund -2 15:00:49 52. [2010-01-11] doy the Ruffian (L4 GhMo) killed Sigmund on turn 2500. (D:3) 15:01:04 sigmund is showing up a lot less often now, with all the new early game uniques 15:01:23 should do something about that 15:01:25 yeah 15:01:36 increase unique generation! 15:01:57 !tell due hey, with all the new early game uniques, sigmund is now showing up depressingly rarely... we should do something about that(: 15:01:58 doy: OK, I'll let due know. 15:03:47 Huh, I did not realize black/grey/yellow snakes didn't appear in the main dungeon 15:05:02 03by * rab65b16f114e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (message.cc message.h): Export effective message window height with msgwin_lines(). 15:05:06 03by * rf870be64f883 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Fix floor item listing message line calculations. 15:05:07 03by * r751d75980be9 10/crawl-ref/source/message.cc: Add local msgwin_line_length() to read effective message window width. 15:05:09 03by * rcd1feccb53c2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (message.cc mpr.h): Improved joining of short messages. 15:05:11 03by * rc2518ba2f09e 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Disable "Items here: " message joining. 15:05:13 03by * reab5932fe4c8 10/crawl-ref/source/message.cc: Minor cleanup. 15:10:01 Well, I guess they are quite rare, still bugs me a bit :) And I'd feel bad about adding in more, but fixing the size for harpies and wolf spiders would do that :/ 15:10:18 and adding moths of wrath 15:11:52 harpies would be twice as bad as wyverns but twice as rare :P 15:13:07 seriously, i think that just randomly going and changing monsters to be large zombies now isn't a very good solution 15:13:22 we've lived with it for this long, i think we'll survive(: 15:14:28 doy: Yes, as I said it is quite rare and maybe okay for now -- but what I'm saying now is that if I fix the sizes, I'll be adding in 3 or 4 more possible super OOD zombies :\ 15:16:24 maybe hold off fixing zombie sizes 15:16:52 and then for after 0.6, just tie zombie sizes to actual monster sizes 15:16:53 That or I could make the small-but-powerful monsters make no zombies for now 15:16:58 meh 15:17:06 that nerfs necros then 15:17:20 i don't think the current situation is incredibly problematic 15:17:20 Hmm, true. 15:18:30 by: looks great(: 15:20:06 It's a pretty minor nerf to be unable to animate harpies and wolf spiders, but it of course doesn't make sense either :P 15:22:02 -!- Ero_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:22:09 super huge wolf spider zombies don't make any more sense than super huge killer bee zombies, though bees would be more obvious since their corpses are more common. Yes, it isn't hugely problematic, but it sure is annoying :) 15:26:57 @?? wolf spider 15:26:57 wolf spider (16s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 24-64 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 2004(medium poison) | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 454. 15:27:41 Segmentation fault when kraken killed (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=723) by vintermann 15:33:22 Then again, the sizes are so screwed up I could just make wolf spiders massively huge instead of ~halfling sized too, to justify the large zombies! So much of this is arbitrary. (Right now they're rat-sized spiders that weigh more than nagas, hehe) 15:34:57 the poison is stored in a black hole 15:39:41 Alright, this isn't so bad then. Leaves me with only 4 temp fixes - 2 monsters which formerly weren't zombifiable still won't be, and 2 medium-sized monsters which should have small zombies will temporarily have big ones. 15:40:45 bees will still be an OOD early zombie super threat, but rare enough that it won't be too big of a deal. Wyverns and supposed to be large and will become large. 15:41:18 ugh 15:44:49 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:49:30 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 15:57:28 -!- Kil2 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:03:52 03by * r218157d8d2c6 10/crawl-ref/ (docs/options_guide.txt settings/init.txt source/initfile.cc): Make msg_min_height default to 7. 16:03:55 03by * re13581f3e021 10/crawl-ref/source/message.cc: Change max message length for merging from 30 to 40. 16:03:56 03by * r6f3ab2f18713 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-cast.cc: Show actual power in wizard mode spell-casting screen. 16:12:05 03by * r79218e3c9e58 10/crawl-ref/source/areas.cc: Nerf silence. 16:12:39 by: is it nerfed enough that you can make it consistent? 16:13:06 don't know; where is it inconsistent? 16:13:18 in not affecting a bunch of stuff, I mean 16:13:34 nerfed how? 16:13:48 contracting radius? 16:14:06 right, with six turns of player-only silence 16:14:11 haha 16:14:21 that's seems a bit much :P 16:14:43 six?? 16:14:53 the numbers can obviously be tweaked 16:15:19 let's try it like this 16:16:03 I don't know enough about silence to really comment too heavily, but six turns is a long long time in a case like that 16:18:33 for comparison, you can get four turns of paralysis from berserk 16:18:54 you usually don't though 16:19:22 but you can do a lot more when silenced 16:21:32 ??silence 16:21:33 silence[1/4]: Kills all sound within 6 spaces, mostly this means no spellcasting. All Gw*8z; and demons are unaffected, as are spit and breath spells. In the books of Charms and Sky. 16:22:33 are there exceptions to the Gw*8z; and demons? that by itself looks consistent enough 16:22:50 curse skulls 16:23:01 z 16:23:07 oh, they can be silenced? 16:23:11 i thought they couldn't 16:23:16 they used to be able to be silenced 16:23:33 I guess I didn't realize that was covered by z 16:23:51 I think someone made Rakshasas and efreeti unsilencable 16:24:02 Well they're dmeons 16:24:12 And I read somewhere Khufu is unsilencable(not sure on this)? 16:24:32 yes, Khufu is what started the silence discussions I think 16:25:33 !learn edit silence[1] s/and demons/demons, and Khufu/ 16:25:33 silence[1/4]: Kills all sound within 6 spaces, mostly this means no spellcasting. All Gw*8z; demons, and Khufu are unaffected, as are spit and breath spells. In the books of Charms and Sky. 16:26:03 Khufu, Murray and curse skulls have M_NOISY_SPELLS 16:27:51 hi 16:27:51 due: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 16:27:54 !messages 16:27:54 (1/2) Twinge said (3h 49m 5s ago): http://www.it-is-law.com/dump/0001-Monster-XP-tweaks-second-pass.patch (In case you missed it the first time; I also added 3 more since you hadn't patched it in yet. Exactl details for changes are on http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:feedback:monster:experience 16:27:59 !messages 16:28:00 (1/1) doy said (1h 26m 2s ago): hey, with all the new early game uniques, sigmund is now showing up depressingly rarely... we should do something about that(: 16:28:05 :)) 16:28:48 !lm * type=uniq start>=20100101 lvl<7 16:28:52 !lm * type=uniq start>=20100101 lvl<7 s=uniq 16:28:56 Khufu throws INVALID BEAM at you. 16:29:02 due: hi 16:29:14 by: what about skeletal warriors? 16:29:25 Moin due! 16:29:30 Bah, I missed the snarkish green. 16:29:51 he posted something for you! http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/?p=304 16:29:53 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:30:08 oh, awesome 16:30:54 Bah 16:31:00 Kraken are now segfaulting again. 16:31:13 ogaz: skeletal warriors aren't affect either 16:31:15 Apparently dismissing tentacles when they ruin is problematic? 16:31:48 16212. [2010-02-06] KiloByte the Ruinous (L3 MuCj) killed Jessica on turn 3247. (D:3) 16:31:49 but they don't "throw their arms wide" when animating when silenced... 16:31:50 16212 milestones for * (type=uniq start>=20100101 lvl<7): 2532x Ijyb, 1946x Terence, 1903x Jessica, 1548x Sigmund, 701x Blork the orc, 672x Edmund, 515x Prince Ribbit, 441x Crazy Yiuf, 298x Dowan, 295x Duvessa, 265x Pikel, 264x Menkaure, 186x Erica, 185x Jozef, 182x Harold, 181x Saint Roka, 177x Wayne, 175x Francis, 174x Frances, 168x Nergalle, 167x Duane, 162x Rupert, 152x Louise, 140x Nessos, 13... 16:32:51 delete uniq_dummy! 16:33:29 The Angel salutes you <3 16:34:13 TGW: no :p 16:36:42 03j-p-e-g * r1ed765248b6f 10/crawl-ref/source/viewmap.cc: viewmap.cc: Add #ifndef USE_TILE around _get_feat_glyph() definition. 16:36:45 03j-p-e-g * r806551aa06f8 10/crawl-ref/source/ (delay.cc food.cc): Autopickup chunks after butchery involving gloves (un)equipment. 16:39:09 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 16:39:48 03by * r374180330ae8 10/crawl-ref/source/message.cc: Never use last message line when not using the + prompts. 16:39:55 bah 16:40:28 oohooh, due has a harsh morning! 16:40:40 !send due hot black tea 16:40:40 Sending hot black tea to due. 16:40:52 :) 16:41:25 * due pokes dpeg. 16:41:41 I hadn't finished recoding up TGW's vault! 16:41:44 I guess I'll have to do it today. 16:41:54 dpeg quit a few minutes ago 16:42:09 poor guy lost his terminal! 16:42:15 I hope he finds it 16:42:27 -!- Twinge- has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:42:35 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:05 so cool to see the first patches that created stone soup :D 16:43:33 I haven't had a chance to read it yet :( 16:43:52 see - that's why I sent the tea 16:44:01 lean back, sip it and read :) 16:44:52 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:46:58 "Never use last message line when not using the + prompts." 16:46:59 ever? 16:47:13 only for --more-- 16:47:30 due: We also figured out that the skeleton/zombie xp confusion was actually just defined in the mon-data file as an XP tweak directly; somehow I missesd that before, but that is also in the patch now. 16:47:59 Twinge_: Awesome 16:48:03 Twinge_: I will apply in two minutes 16:50:30 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:50:32 by: I L:OVE YOU <3 16:50:35 you nerfed silence yay <3 16:51:05 :) 16:51:52 not sure how much of an effect it will really have, but at least it's not easily renewable now 16:52:06 that'll have a huge effect 16:52:23 yes, very interesting 16:52:53 Master branch on CDO updated to: 0.6.0-a1-3147-g3741803 (16.5) 16:53:05 I see a lack of "knooow not my silence" in ##crawl. :( 16:53:16 well, it just went in like 20 minutes ago 16:53:18 give it time 16:53:18 (: 16:53:24 ... too much know oin the brain 16:53:25 due: Well, I think it'll need to be live on CDO for a little while 16:53:30 Twinge_: Did you catch the multiple patches thing? 16:53:47 due: should we make Khufu silenceable again? he seems to be the only really inconsistent one 16:53:48 I can do "nooooo not my silence" if you want, I'm refraining because it'll involve just pointless, whiny complaining so far :p 16:53:59 by: That was a specific request from dpeg, so ask him? 16:54:13 ok 16:54:34 sorear: I did, but when I started seeing a few other things to adjust as far as monster depths goes too, so figured I might as well wait and make it its own patch instead of taking skeletons on to the other one. 16:54:48 !tell dpeg Can we make Khufu affected by silence again? He appears to be the only really odd one out. 16:54:48 by: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 16:54:54 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 16:55:03 That was a quick host change. 16:55:39 we got his ip :> 16:56:33 .ru mmmm 16:56:53 Does anyone check SF tracker any more? 16:57:04 Twinge_: re the butchering --more-- prompts, I tried a 0.5.2 game on cdo and did get prompted 16:57:21 due: I don't need to - I somehow managed to convince sf to email me every change 16:58:07 ... delightful 16:58:16 by: did you have delay_message_clear on or off? 16:58:18 by: Oh? Are you sure CDO is default settings? 16:58:30 !tell dpeg ood-report: 4 gnolls on D1 16:58:30 Napkin: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 16:58:48 Napkin: That was possible long before the OOD was screwed with 16:59:06 that doesn't matter :) 16:59:16 in one 0.3.3 game I got a pack of gnolls as my first 4 monsters 16:59:18 True, just fyi and all that. 16:59:19 by - want your config resetted? 16:59:28 Gnolls are, for some reason, under the same DL as as Hobgoblins :O 16:59:31 Napkin: yes, please 16:59:42 in dgl menu? 16:59:47 They are lower DL than worms, snakes, and quokkas 16:59:48 they are exactly as out of depth as hobgoblins and jackals 16:59:58 i mean - you left the game, right, by? 17:00:01 yes 17:00:14 all of them? or just 0.5.2 ? 17:00:28 D:1 gnoll packs aren't uncommon 17:00:29 char-name is rob? 17:00:31 just 0.5.2 probably 17:00:32 yes 17:00:35 "alas" 17:00:45 nrook: it was without delay_message_clear 17:00:47 done 17:00:51 thanks 17:00:59 just start a game and it'll copy the default over again 17:01:50 @??gnoll 17:01:50 gnoll (08g) | Speed: 10 | HD: 2 | Health: 8-18 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Damage: 9 | Res: 06magic(8) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 14. 17:01:51 @??worm 17:01:51 worm (04w) | Speed: 6 | HD: 5 | Health: 15-40 | AC/EV: 1/5 | Damage: 12 | Res: 06magic(13) | XP: 12. 17:02:14 Twinge_: I get --more-- prompts when butchering both with- and without delay_message_clear 17:02:32 by: Curious, I'll double check again, pretty sure I did not have any though 17:03:01 Twinge_: Oh? Are you sure CDO is default settings? 17:03:10 ;) 17:04:00 -!- raydarken1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:04:09 Well hello mr. more prompt. I guess I only checked that I had 7 lines in 0.5.2, not the rest. 17:04:15 My mistake 17:04:48 -!- raydarken has joined ##crawl-dev 17:05:15 do we need a plain temple entry anymore? 17:05:30 it seems significantly less exciting than any of the twenty new ones 17:08:07 Idea for minivault: Bubbling pot of stone soup (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=724) by LoginError 17:08:18 Ahaha how... amusing. 17:08:31 A bit too meta. 17:10:30 put the orb of zot at the bottom of a pot of stone soup 17:18:05 heh 17:18:46 Crazy Yiuf made a friendly zombie invisible, which triggered auto-pickup to turn off :D 17:19:04 -!- by has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:19:17 the good part: it turned on, once my friendly zombie got slain ;) 17:22:03 Awesome 17:22:27 Enne: where should I look for starting a "get base tile from tile+offset" rltiles function? 17:22:44 the stuff in rltiles/tool? 17:23:06 Yeah. 17:23:30 "ruthlessly rewritten for clarity", the rewrite was ruthless! No function was spared! 17:23:46 (I was feeling bitter. You should have seen the original.) 17:24:08 I'm not sure I want to :0 17:24:09 *:) 17:25:08 Hm. 17:25:15 We store an array for "count of variations for this tile index". 17:25:18 I think breakfast is required before I try and comprehend tile_list_processor. 17:25:26 You could add an additional array for "offset from base for this variation". 17:27:23 I was actually thinking that would be the quickest and easiest way to do it. 17:27:45 Also, the "need food" was to fix the "low blood sugar = bad brain function"; your code is inherently readable. 17:27:51 Here's the original: http://rltiles.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/rltiles/rltiles/tool/dctile.c?revision=1.4&view=markup#l_162 17:28:21 ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 17:29:01 Strongly agree with ruthless rewrite. 17:29:57 If you wanted to be clever and not make yet another array, you could probably overload the count array, with some assumption that negative numbers are offsets (with a count of 1) and positive numbers are counts (and are the base tile, with an offset of 0). 17:30:01 I'm not sure that's smart or confusing. 17:30:22 Smart but perhaps also confusing in the same breath. 17:30:31 I'll leave it to you to sort out what's best. :) 17:30:39 :) 17:30:49 -!- Enne has quit [Quit: dinner] 17:33:13 Ally targeting me for no apparent reason (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=725) by tinyrodent 17:41:50 gaaaaaah 17:41:54 throwing damage is so broken 18:02:41 Hehehe. 18:11:14 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 18:11:22 Twinge: Oh, your patch 18:11:41 Twinge: http://www.it-is-law.com/dump/0001-Monster-XP-tweaks-second-pass.patch ? 18:14:48 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:14:55 * due pokes Twinge. 18:15:25 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:15:54 * due pokes Twinge_. 18:16:12 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:16:29 Aye? 18:16:40 http://www.it-is-law.com/dump/0001-Monster-XP-tweaks-second-pass.patch = final? 18:16:49 Just applied it, want to know if I can push. 18:16:56 Yes, final. 18:17:19 Excellent 18:17:22 (I imagine some other changes are still needed, but none that I know of now; that's another huge chunk of 'em, so there shouldn't be too many left) 18:17:35 @??joseph 18:17:35 Joseph (10@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 66 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Damage: 9 | Res: 06magic(46) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 806. 18:17:43 Did you tweak Pikel again? 18:17:52 Ah, excellent, thanks. 18:18:02 Possibly some of the other uniques. Yeah Pikel is 983->651 18:18:09 Excellent 18:18:18 I have to write speech for Waynne 18:18:21 Actually 18:18:27 03homelesspete * rf88ad309c662 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: 41 more monster XP tweaks, zombie/skeleton XP fix. (Second XP pass) 18:18:29 Can someone write a list of uniques that use generic mercenary speech? 18:18:46 Or remind me to 18:18:53 I'd like them all to have their own speech come 0.6 rlease 18:22:02 Duane Edmund Frances Frederick Louise Wayne 18:22:15 kilobyte: Thank you. 18:22:21 Frederick has generic speech? Blech. 18:22:28 I'll prioritise. 18:22:30 @??frederick 18:22:30 Frederick (03@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 21 | Health: 159 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Damage: 27 | Flags: evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(140) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 5373 | Sp: mystic blast, b.cold, invisibility, animate dead, iron shot. 18:22:33 Edmund is one of my favourite uniques. 18:22:59 non-generic speech but sucky: Harold Joseph Josephine Jozef Norbert Terence Rupert 18:23:09 terence has amazing speech 18:23:13 he sounds like a stripper 18:23:32 kilobyte: danke 18:25:10 Terence and good speech? He's almost same as Harold, for example (didn't compare the rest yet) 18:25:59 @??large slime creature 18:25:59 large slime creature (03J) | Speed: 10 | HD: 11 | Health: 33-88 | AC/EV: 1/4 | Damage: 44 | Flags: amphibious | Res: 06magic(44), 03poison, asphyx | XP: 822. 18:26:05 @??slime creature 18:26:05 slime creature (03J) | Speed: 10 | HD: 11 | Health: 33-88 | AC/EV: 1/4 | Damage: 22 | Flags: amphibious | Res: 06magic(44), 03poison, asphyx | XP: 423. 18:26:09 @??very large slime creature 18:26:09 very large slime creature (03J) | Speed: 10 | HD: 11 | Health: 33-88 | AC/EV: 1/4 | Damage: 66 | Flags: amphibious | Res: 06magic(44), 03poison, asphyx | XP: 1110. 18:26:26 HP scales as well, doesn't it? 18:26:38 yes 18:26:45 lots of lines are repeats even among those with custom speech 18:26:47 @??titanic slime creature 18:26:47 titanic slime creature (03J) | Speed: 10 | HD: 11 | Health: 33-88 | AC/EV: 1/4 | Damage: 110 | Flags: amphibious | Res: 06magic(44), 03poison, asphyx | XP: 1509. 18:27:22 hp, damage and exp -- I think that's all 18:27:50 Excellent 18:28:55 They merge in corridors when they ca't reach you 18:29:09 And also if they can't otherwise access you, and a closer movement ltes them merge? 18:29:46 They merge if they don't have another move that reduces distance to you (this is just a distance function and doesn't really take obstacles into account) 18:29:53 So, when to slime creatures merge? If you're fighting them in a corridor (a common trick for fighting multiple slime creatures in older versions of crawl), you can expect them to merge immediately. If you're otherwise surrounded, or the closest position is already filled by a slime creature, they'll merge. 18:29:59 *do 18:30:08 Is that correct? 18:30:28 yes, also sometimes if you are diagonal to a group there will be a merge 18:30:35 03sorear * r613597876c91 10/crawl-ref/git-hooks/crawl-ref-cia: Add Twinge to the name remapping tables 18:30:54 Excellent 18:30:56 sorear: Thank you! 18:31:13 Cheers. 18:33:23 03j-p-e-g * r84d9e8c3a699 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/FAQ.txt: Add a FAQ item on labyrinths. 18:33:30 03j-p-e-g * r913797091a7c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/clua/lm_toll.lua shopping.cc): Fix crashes when attempting to examine Ziggurats in the shopping list. 18:33:31 Okay, unmerging? 18:33:32 03j-p-e-g * rde215a216cee 10/crawl-ref/source/shopping.cc: Add a short description for non-items examined in the shopping list. 18:34:03 pointless_: When you're out of sight and they're fleeing, or the closest move to you would let them unmerge? 18:35:06 nerfing *red wasp* xp? really? 18:35:10 well there are a few conditions, they will unmerge when they enter BEH_WANDER, but most of the time they will unmerge if there is open space that doesn't increase distance to the target and no moves that reduce distance to the target (or they have no target) 18:35:15 @??red wasp 18:35:15 red wasp (05y) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 24-64 | AC/EV: 7/14 | Damage: 2304(paralyse) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 626. 18:35:22 wait *what* 18:35:49 so they will unmerge when adjacent to you in open space (but this unmerge is on a coinflip so it may not happen right away) 18:35:51 That is pretty high 18:35:55 pointless_: Excellent 18:37:03 There's also a few circumstances under which they'll unmerge: if you leave them to wander around on their own, they'll eventually become bored and split up. If the closest move to you is an empty space, there's a chance that they'll unmerge. 18:37:07 ? 18:37:11 @??yellow wasp 18:37:12 yellow wasp (08y) | Speed: 15 | HD: 4 | Health: 12-32 | AC/EV: 5/14 | Damage: 1304(paralyse) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(16) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 104. 18:37:21 626 is ridiculously high for red wasps, I think 18:37:39 Twinge_: what did you change it ot? 450/500? 18:37:53 546. 18:37:57 basically there's a chance they'll unmerge when adjacent to you and there is open space that is also adjacent to you 18:37:59 I think that's fine. 18:38:00 626 seems low for a red wasp 18:38:07 sorear: Really? 18:38:11 546 seems so random 18:38:12 @??hill giant 18:38:12 hill giant (04C) | Speed: 10 | HD: 11 | Health: 33-88 | AC/EV: 3/4 | Damage: 30 | Res: 06magic(44) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 657. 18:38:21 I am reconsidering though, I'm not sure if I saw the 7AC when I was looking at it before. 18:38:21 Almost as much as a hill giant? 18:38:32 red wasp >>>> hill giant if you dont have pr 18:38:33 syllogism: I cannot set exact numbers. 18:38:43 Hm. 18:38:46 due: red wasps are faster than hill giants and are guaranteed to instantly kill you if they land a hit 18:38:47 agreed, syllogism 18:38:58 ja 18:39:04 (and you lack PR) 18:39:10 sorear: They don't seem much different to yellow wasps, which are only 104. 18:39:12 But okkay 18:39:15 Red Wasps will almost never appear until D:16 though 18:39:20 due: you arent reading the stats right 18:39:25 Twinge_: that's completely irrelevant 18:39:29 yelllow cause short sleep only 18:39:34 TGW: Not completely, but partially. 18:39:36 damage(13) vs damage(23) is the key 18:39:43 Napkin: They are different paralysis effects?? 18:39:44 red wasps add paralysis faster than it comes off 18:39:44 double the HD is more important 18:39:49 red may keep you sleeping forever 18:39:55 hm 18:40:00 yes! because of the damage, as syllogism said 18:40:02 I don't think I've ever fought one without rPois 18:40:10 so yeah 18:40:14 i got that explained last time I complained about it ;) 18:40:17 Yeah, me neither. 18:40:20 :) 18:40:22 !killsby red wasp 18:40:23 60 games for * (ckiller=red wasp): 2x hayenne, 2x Stabwound, 2x 78291, 2x jenius, 1x tripitaka, 1x Eronarn, 1x Grimm, 1x jdev, 1x ColdPie, 1x lajcik, 1x Qui, 1x Greygar, 1x Archibald, 1x Errol1, 1x talchas, 1x wasd, 1x Kylearan, 1x urethroute, 1x meneril, 1x CFSZero, 1x Ping, 1x thevalrus, 1x Chog, 1x MadDasher, 1x oniyuri, 1x Cerrus, 1x MadStreakr, 1x Eulabeia, 1x Kimball, 1x Atomjack, 1x Pacra, ... 18:40:25 Twinge_: the damage difference is the difference between "short paralysis" and "indefinite chain paralysis" 18:40:28 I've fought once, never again :P 18:40:37 XL10 char - one hit - paralyzed to the end.. dead ;) 18:40:41 well as in after that I never let them close 18:40:52 ok.. that was OOD red wasp in D11 18:41:29 but ok - 500something is not that bad still 18:41:49 not that, ultimately, it makes much different 18:41:51 ce 18:42:07 exactly 18:42:25 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:51 !lg * killer=red wasp s=place 18:42:52 60 games for * (killer=red wasp): 6x Swamp:1, 4x D:18, 3x Vault:5, 3x Swamp:3, 3x Swamp:2, 3x D:19, 3x D:9, 2x Swamp:4, 2x Swamp:5, 2x D:7, 2x Vault:8, 2x D:8, 2x D:11, 2x Vault:7, 2x Lair:6, 2x Vault:3, 2x D:10, 1x D:12, 1x D:5, 1x D:21, 1x D:17, 1x Lair:1, 1x Lair:7, 1x Lair:3, 1x D:22, 1x Vault:4, 1x D:23, 1x Vault:6, 1x D:4, 1x D:2, 1x D:14, 1x Hive:1 18:42:53 the chain paralysis isn't quite as bad as it used to be, it looks like it 18:43:18 !lg * killer=red wasp s=place cv>=0.5 18:43:19 17 games for * (killer=red wasp cv>=0.5): 2x Swamp:2, 2x Vault:3, 1x D:17, 1x Vault:5, 1x D:22, 1x Swamp:4, 1x Lair:6, 1x Swamp:5, 1x Swamp:3, 1x D:10, 1x Hive:1, 1x Swamp:1, 1x D:8, 1x D:9, 1x D:7 18:43:46 !lg * killer=red wasp s=place cv>=0.5 race!=mu 18:43:46 17 games for * (killer=red wasp cv>=0.5 race!=mu): 2x Swamp:2, 2x Vault:3, 1x D:17, 1x Vault:5, 1x D:22, 1x Swamp:4, 1x Lair:6, 1x Swamp:5, 1x Swamp:3, 1x D:10, 1x Hive:1, 1x Swamp:1, 1x D:8, 1x D:9, 1x D:7 18:44:26 anyways, update CDO? 18:45:18 !lg * killer=red wasp s=cv 18:45:19 60 games for * (killer=red wasp): 25x 0.4, 14x 0.5, 8x 0.2, 6x 0.3, 4x 0.1, 2x 0.6-a, 1x 0.5-a 18:45:26 I did keep trying to poke people to look at the list before it got patched, for the record ;) But it could still be changed again if needed. I'll look at it a little more. 18:45:34 they are too rare 18:45:34 !lg * killer=yellow wasp s=cv 18:45:35 291 games for * (killer=yellow wasp): 102x 0.4, 97x 0.5, 39x 0.3, 27x 0.2, 13x 0.6-a, 6x 0.1, 4x 0.5-a, 3x 0.4-a 18:45:58 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:46:25 believe me, highly appreciated work, Twinge :) 18:46:44 and screams of horror are a good sign ;) 18:46:45 They have a 25 weight -- yellows have 30, as do mummies, spiny worms, crocodiles... (in dungeon) 18:46:47 I think it's fine 18:46:54 Napkin: Hehe probably. 18:47:01 I can tweak it bac kup later if necessary 18:47:05 But it's only 60 exp 18:47:11 ok, CDO update then :) 18:47:18 Nod. 18:47:21 @??red wasp 18:47:21 red wasp (05y) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 24-64 | AC/EV: 7/14 | Damage: 2304(paralyse) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 626. 18:47:29 Hm 18:47:42 Napkin: I just updated it and nothing happened :S 18:47:45 @??human zombie 18:47:45 human zombie (07z) | Speed: 8 | HD: 7 | Health: 6-98 | AC/EV: 0/7 | Damage: 8 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(1), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 73. 18:47:49 @??human skeleton 18:47:49 human skeleton (15z) | Speed: 8 | HD: 8 | Health: 5-77 | AC/EV: 0/4 | Damage: 8 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(0), 02cold++, 03poison | XP: 111. 18:47:52 did you update the crawl-ref folder? 18:48:00 I did make clean 18:48:00 there is a... make target for it, i think 18:48:10 oh 18:48:15 374180330 18:48:16 greensnark changed it reacently 18:48:18 that's the top commit :S 18:48:27 make 18:48:41 ohhh 18:48:46 [remote "origin"] url = /var/cache/git/crawl-ref.git 18:48:56 sssh! ;) 18:49:05 I mean, we could even overhaul red wasps a bit, to make them appear sooner but have a little less speed/damage or something. There are options 18:49:05 can you update that? :) 18:49:10 it is 18:49:13 every 5 mins 18:49:16 @??shark 18:49:16 ahhhh 18:49:16 shark (16;) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 21-56 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Damage: 15, 8 | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(28) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 225. 18:49:19 you just got unlucky, i think? 18:49:28 Yeah 18:49:30 could you add the sudo to force it? 18:49:42 Master branch on CDO updated to: 0.6.0-a1-3152-gde215a2 (16.5) 18:49:44 @??red wasp 18:49:44 red wasp (05y) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 24-64 | AC/EV: 7/14 | Damage: 2304(paralyse) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 626. 18:50:13 @??red wasp 18:50:14 red wasp (05y) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 24-64 | AC/EV: 7/14 | Damage: 2304(paralyse) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 540. 18:50:15 sudo -H -u git /var/cache/git/crawl-ref.git/update.sh 18:50:16 THERE we go 18:50:31 could you add that to the makefile, while you are in there? :) 18:53:22 @??shark 18:53:22 shark (16;) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 21-56 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Damage: 18, 9 | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(28) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 204. 18:53:43 @??pikel 18:53:43 Pikel (02K) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 40 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Damage: 9 | Res: 06magic(24) | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 651. 18:53:56 I should probably buff him slightly now too. 18:54:01 @??soja 18:54:01 unknown monster: "soja" 18:54:04 @??sonja 18:54:04 Sonja (05K) | Speed: 14 | HD: 6 | Health: 30 | AC/EV: 2/24 | Damage: 9, 5, 5 | Flags: spellcaster | Res: 06magic(8) | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 315 | Sp: blink, teleport self. 18:54:09 oh, 9, 5, 5, reallly? 18:54:44 15 dam shouldn't be unreasonable, maybe tweak his health a bit. 18:54:47 make him less of an exp fountain 18:55:04 @??slave 18:55:04 slave (16@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 15-40 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Damage: 10 | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 130. 18:55:21 @??big kobold 18:55:21 big kobold (08K) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 15-40 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Damage: 7 | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 98. 18:55:42 you better not touch big kobolds :P 18:55:49 45HP, 11 base damage? I don't know that he needs TOO much of a buff. 18:56:08 -!- Eifeltrampel has joined ##crawl-dev 18:56:09 He's a big big kobold! 18:56:30 Twinge: Yeah, just thinking that 18:56:37 Pikel can show up quite early 18:56:44 might tweak that to 6 instead of 4 18:57:27 03dolorous * rcf82e8e8ec1b 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Add changelog entry. 18:58:34 Season specific uniques (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=726) by Eifeltrampel 18:58:40 Hi! Hoi! Bonjour! Hola! Alô! Hallå! Helas! Mahlzeit! 18:58:46 Salut, Eifeltrampel. 18:59:06 Moin :-P 18:59:09 :D 18:59:16 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:59:54 And Pikel always has a mean weapon! guarantied, isn't it? 19:01:04 Napkin: True, but I've always got the impressoin he was very easy. 19:01:09 !lg * ikiller=pikel s=killer 19:01:09 87 games for * (ikiller=pikel): 56x a slave, 31x Pikel 19:01:13 Hm, maybe not. 19:01:20 he's very not easy 19:01:39 long tange, maybe.. not in close combat :) 19:01:42 *range 19:01:43 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:12:19 http://pastebin.ca/1788614 19:12:28 I'm not posting it yet, just about to start on the list 19:12:33 but if anyone spots any errors, please let me know 19:24:31 !tell Keskitalo Like the new crocodile tile, btw! Looks crocodile-ish. 19:24:32 due: OK, I'll let Keskitalo know. 19:28:56 -!- Timbermaw has joined ##crawl-dev 19:29:35 Timber 19:29:49 hai 19:30:09 Have you ever been to Iguazu falls? 19:30:38 Also: Hey, sup. ^^ 19:31:00 lol this isn't a top for this channel; and i don't remember 19:31:04 topic * 19:31:19 Was just a random question. :P 19:31:53 Just noticed you are brazilian. Or so. 19:32:19 No worries, tho. ^^ 19:32:30 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:32:39 ya.. i was just remembering: i went to some falls here in brazil, but not that one in argentina 19:33:52 *shuts up now* :p 19:34:21 go to ##crawl-offtopic? 19:36:47 @??blue death 19:36:47 Blue Death (021) | Speed: 12 | HD: 12 | Health: 36-96 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Damage: 20, 20 | Flags: 05demonic, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(144), 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison | Vul: 04fire | XP: 1700 | Sp: b.lightning, b.cold, call imp, shadow creatures, teleport other. 19:47:38 -!- syllogism has quit [] 19:54:02 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 20:12:05 !lg * ikiller=pikel s=place 20:12:05 87 games for * (ikiller=pikel): 45x D:4, 16x D:5, 15x D:3, 7x D:6, 3x D:8, 1x D:7 20:12:50 -!- phyphor has joined ##crawl-dev 20:14:09 -!- Giomancer has quit [Quit: When the chips are down, well, the buffalo is empty] 20:14:21 So the D:3 kills are probably all from luring him up to single him out I guess. Even making him D:5 minimum already makes him a fair bit less of a powerhouse, though if you're going to buff his stats also D:6 min is probably better 20:14:56 I think pikel is great now 20:15:28 I might just leave and tweak his HP to 45. 20:15:37 @??pikel 20:15:37 Pikel (02K) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 40 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Damage: 9 | Res: 06magic(24) | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 651. 20:15:47 @??sigmund 20:15:47 Sigmund (08@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 3 | Health: 30 | AC/EV: 0/11 | Damage: 5 | Flags: spellcaster | Res: 06magic(12) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 104 | Sp: throw flame, confuse, invisibility, magic dart. 20:15:52 eh 20:16:36 ts doesn't actually do anything 20:16:38 just a heads up 20:17:34 due: Leave it as d:4 min? I probably wouldn't tweak his HP up if so 20:17:35 ts? 20:17:43 "stop fighting" 20:17:48 ts? 20:18:02 they're keys, you press them and stuff happens 20:18:05 oh 20:18:12 there was no context 20:19:17 Stop fighting! The giant ant bites you. _The giant ant misses you. You hit the giant ant. The giant ant is severely wounded. Your small abomination hits the giant ant! _The giant ant dies! 20:19:24 :) 20:19:26 Nice. 20:19:31 does it do something other than I assume, or should I report that 20:20:39 TGW: it makes your allies stop fighting 20:20:46 however 20:21:00 like, "ta" fighting? 20:21:00 reality is more important than your words 20:21:16 if something attacks you, allies - all of them - will ignore orders and defend you 20:21:43 Stop fightijng! The giant ant bites you. === Attack! 20:21:54 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:22:49 03dolorous * re5bdef8f2c6f 10/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Tweak wording. 20:22:57 a monster's AI state consists of one parameter, the current enemy 20:23:10 'ta' clears the enemies of all allies in LOS 20:23:27 when a monster hits you, all allies have their enemy set to whoever just hit you 20:23:51 now suppose you are far from the fight, @.....xL 20:24:05 Stop fighting! The lich hits your small abomination. 20:24:26 the lich's enemy wasn't cleared, so it attacked who it was fighting 20:24:38 the abomination, seeing as it was attacked, now has an enemy 20:24:59 so it doesn't really do much 20:25:18 how's that differ from "tf?" 20:25:30 that is, follow me 20:25:35 'tf' sets the enmies of all your allies to YOU 20:25:49 so they'll charge at you 20:25:53 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 20:26:04 'enemies' is a misleading term here 20:26:08 'target' is more accurate 20:26:12 there's hacking elsewhere to prevent them from actually attacking, but they will still move as if to attack 20:26:16 "foe"? :) 20:27:19 (there have been a number of quite amusing bugs resulting from this implementation) 20:27:35 hehehe 20:27:38 "cacodemons cast dig at you" 20:27:44 eyeballs stare at you or something? 20:27:55 for instance, Poisonous Cloud beams used to lay down the cloud without checking pbolt.is_tracer 20:28:17 so green death allies tried to shoot you, declined, then did something else, while gassing you as a free action 20:28:33 !lg * ktyp=cloud kaux=~poison place=Hive:4 20:28:35 1. mr0t the Cutter (L11 DSCK), worshipper of Makhleb, engulfed by a cloud of poison gas on Hive:4 on 2006-12-31, with 8268 points after 19432 turns and 5:08:18. 20:28:50 hahaha 20:29:37 Anyone know how monster packs are handled? mon-pick seems to only be based on single mobs 20:29:38 http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=725 20:29:46 seems appropriate for this conversation 20:29:57 Twinge_: mon-place.cc 20:30:21 I want an ally command that says "drop your items and exit stage left" 20:30:23 _choose_band switches off the monster and sets the current active band 20:30:43 _band_member switches off the band and sets the monster being placed for it 20:31:13 @??blue death 20:31:13 Blue Death (021) | Speed: 12 | HD: 12 | Health: 36-96 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Damage: 20, 20 | Flags: 05demonic, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(144), 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison | Vul: 04fire | XP: 1700 | Sp: b.lightning, b.cold, call imp, shadow creatures, teleport other. 20:31:18 Teleport other? 20:31:21 i guess 20:31:25 It's the only resistible spell that they have 20:32:08 teleport other and dig are probably classified as non-harmful spells somewhere, so it's not preventing them from trying to cast them 20:32:19 I think they're tagged as utility 20:32:44 hm, maybe not 20:32:57 due: So this means, for example, whenever an orc wizard would be spawned instead BAND_ORCS is spawned? 20:33:22 yes 20:34:00 why don't kille rbees die as soon as they sting you? :D 20:34:21 ?/m killer bee 20:34:27 "bearing a deadly barb which can sting repeatedly" 20:35:46 :| 20:36:04 doy: a long time ago, there was a FR to reclassify t.o. as a beneficial spell "since I teleport to avoid certain death, I should be able to teleport Jorge the orc warlord away from certain death, but it made him angry. WTF?" 20:36:07 Hmm, but Orc Priest and Orc Warrior have the same band definition, and the definition doesn't ever return orc warriors, yet obviously orc warriors still can spawn in the main dungeon. How's that work? 20:36:09 doy: it went in with little ado 20:36:30 Twinge_: first the band leader is placed, then the band 20:36:43 Ah, ok. 20:36:43 Twinge_: mon-pick coughs up an orc warlord, the band code gives it escorts 20:36:56 mon-place doesn't replace the band leader 20:36:59 it's supplemental 20:37:50 So only single orcs will ever come alone, hmm 20:38:07 * due beats dpeg with a stick. 20:39:39 I'm wondering if extreme OOD generation should skip the band generation? e.g. spawn only 1 yak on D:2 instead of 4 of them 20:39:49 Twinge_: I am for this. 20:39:59 Very for this. 20:40:09 But... it would be difficult to do. 20:40:20 OOD spawns don't know they're OOd spawns, do they? 20:40:23 I suppose they could check absdepth. 20:41:53 I appear to be in a wizlab! 20:42:16 ! 20:42:25 tukia <3 20:42:31 does it tell you which lab you're in? or just henzell? 20:42:32 *Tukima 20:42:46 I don't think it told me 20:42:47 TGW: It does if you hit X. 20:42:53 I'm still debating "You've entered " messages. 20:43:22 Dancing weapon machine :D 20:43:30 if it makes a milestone, it should have that as an entry message 20:43:34 Yeah. 20:43:49 You can't disint the machine 20:43:57 I know that now... 20:44:03 the names give a really good feel of the vault 20:44:22 at least, until the nuts ones like utka are in 20:44:27 I assume these walls are actually stone? 20:44:31 Yes 20:44:35 wikipedia tells me that killer bees should die after stinging, but bumblebees shouldn't 20:44:43 doy: they're magical killer bees 20:44:51 pointless_: The doors are hints, entrances are elsewhere 20:45:13 oh, I was going to try stabbing the machine next 20:45:28 The machine is a feature 20:47:20 pointless_: it only spits out five machines. 20:47:22 er, weapons 20:47:50 I see 20:47:50 I think Tukima's is the most balanced threat/loot wise 20:47:54 It was the first one I did 20:48:02 Dull noise = machine empty. 20:48:10 well it's nice because the weapons can't open doors 20:48:10 Part of the loot is the weapons, too. 20:48:14 Yeah 20:48:22 I already have my scimitar of resistance though 20:48:25 ah 20:48:39 north 20:48:40 due: Yeah, I'm not certain the best way to go about it. Checking current depth would probably work? -- at the top of the Band function, if absdepth + 5 < MonsterDepth, break ; if absdepth + 4 < MonsterDepth && coinflip(), break ; if absdepth + 3 < MonsterDepth && one_chance_in(4), break 20:49:12 pointless_: Did the doors in the walls hint as to there being a room? If oyou hadn't have already mapped it 20:49:17 This means orc priest bands will never appear on D:1 (but can appear on D:2), and Yak packs can't show up until D:8 20:49:34 Twinge_: Hm, unsure. 20:49:36 when I saw them I assumed there would be some way to get to those doors, like the mirrors had a secret door or something 20:49:47 hm. 20:50:00 I'm not tooo concerned 20:50:06 anyway, brb 20:50:10 * due still very, very happy with tukima 20:50:33 That's my initial take on it anyway. It kind of fits thematically too really - when they wander that high into the dungeon, it makes sense that they wandered away from the pack 20:50:35 well I think it's fine since the machine spawns a finite number of weapons 20:51:03 The exact numbers could be tweaked of course, but that's probably a good initial baseline. *seems* easy to code in, but not certain. 20:51:07 -!- purge has quit [Quit: !] 20:52:59 Assuming I understand correctly, For MonsterDepth you'd simply do mons_standard_level(mon_type) and it'll return their depth easily. Not sure on how easy absdepth is 20:53:21 you.your_level 20:53:37 LUARET1(you_absdepth, number, you.your_level + 1) 20:58:02 Hell, maybe I can do that one myself then. Maybe I'll try later. 20:58:28 @??flayed ghost 20:58:28 flayed ghost (05p) | Speed: 10 | HD: 11 | Health: 33-88 | AC/EV: 0/14 | Damage: 30 | Flags: 07undead, evil, lev | Res: 06magic(58), 03poison | XP: 719. 20:58:40 Do flayed ghosts have any special effects other than normal ghost stuff? 20:59:13 no 20:59:23 I wonder why they're depth 22 then 20:59:36 Because they hit bloody hard 20:59:51 30 damage is not hard for 22 20:59:54 @??death yak 20:59:54 death yak (08Y) | Speed: 10 | HD: 14 | Health: 42-112 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Damage: 30 | Res: 06magic(93) | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 1056. 21:00:11 what's the depth on dyaks? 21:00:33 They... don't spawn in the main dungeon, apparently? Thought they did. 21:00:40 so did I 21:00:41 huh 21:00:41 have you guys ever seen titanic slime creatures and their 110 damage thing? 21:00:42 They don't 21:00:52 lair exclusive 21:00:53 you can get them from a lair entrance 21:01:03 well, there you go 21:01:05 Ah, right. 21:01:06 And that butcher vault 21:01:11 D:13 friggin' death yaks :O 21:01:11 or with polyphemus, although I guess he's probably shoals only now 21:01:26 pack monster tougher than a flayed ghost, early as dl 8 21:01:43 Twinge_: D:8 death yaks, even 21:01:55 I should hope not as early as D:8, that'd be ridiculous. I just naturally assumed the vault had a depth restriction 21:01:59 or D:8 hydra 21:02:11 it's weighted very low 21:02:13 it's not that bad, you just need to run around them 21:02:18 and it's not depth-rated 21:03:02 "weighted very low" is almost never enough to justify such things to me :P 21:03:30 they're normal speed melee monsters 21:03:34 * due shrugs 21:03:37 so are flayed ghosts 21:03:38 @??death yak 21:03:38 death yak (08Y) | Speed: 10 | HD: 14 | Health: 42-112 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Damage: 30 | Res: 06magic(93) | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 1056. 21:03:41 D:2 centaur is significantly nastier 21:03:42 ??flayed ghost 21:03:42 flayed ghost[1/1]: The most dangerous non-pghost "p", but by the time you meet it not much of a threat. A staple of Gehenna. Notable as the only mundane undead not resistant to cold. 21:04:10 That entrance has been around for as long as I've played crawl 21:04:13 hmm, what's a better analogue 21:04:16 @??hill giant 21:04:16 hill giant (04C) | Speed: 10 | HD: 11 | Health: 33-88 | AC/EV: 3/4 | Damage: 30 | Res: 06magic(44) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 657. 21:04:24 @??flayed ghost 21:04:24 flayed ghost (05p) | Speed: 10 | HD: 11 | Health: 33-88 | AC/EV: 0/14 | Damage: 30 | Flags: 07undead, evil, lev | Res: 06magic(58), 03poison | XP: 719. 21:04:35 same hp, same damage, big damn club 21:04:36 hill giants are as common on the early D-levels as ogres, now 21:04:43 (what is up with that experience) 21:04:50 Yeah hill giants are DL14 21:04:59 Twinge_: that's not right 21:05:13 or, my luck is consistently awful 21:05:17 Up to 4 less than DL is still pretty common and not that OOD 21:05:22 ok 21:05:23 For reference, hobgolbins are DL5 21:05:27 lol 21:05:28 I've had D:6 hill giants in 0.5 21:05:44 here's a d:10 hill giant right now 21:05:45 -7 and more is very OOD 21:06:01 Hill giants are pushovers if you're a venom mage. :. 21:06:04 -4 is standardish, -5 or -6 is fairly uncommon 21:06:10 gnolls are what? dl 7? 21:06:21 due: flayed ghosts are pushovers if you're a necromancer 21:06:29 or if you're on d:18 21:06:48 Ahhhh done 21:06:49 Gnolls are actually 5 right now too, just spawn less often. 21:07:42 gnolls are scary :p 21:07:47 @??komodo dragon 21:07:47 komodo dragon (04l) | Speed: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 8 | Health: 24-64 | AC/EV: 7/8 | Damage: 3007(disease) | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(32) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 311. 21:07:57 Komodoo dragons are scarier. 21:07:58 Yeah, I'm wanting to push them to 6. 21:08:14 They come either 3-4 in a band 21:08:26 oh yeah that too 21:08:29 they are never alone 21:08:34 i think 21:09:00 Gnolls? 21:09:04 Gnolls always come in bands. 21:09:41 The latest play-testing post is now up! http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/?p=326 Covering all the new changes, plus slime creatures and ugly things! 21:10:00 Yes, always either 3 or 4 (equal chance) 21:10:20 I think Orc Sorcerers are missing a band, incidentally. checking... 21:10:27 * due pants. 21:10:36 Twinge_: They don't place naturally outside of Orc, I think. 21:10:41 and they're partof orc knightbands. 21:11:22 due: or high priest bands, yes. Rarely. But if they spawn by themselves, they just spawn alone 21:12:28 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 21:13:18 I can give them one easily enough I suppose, just mirror the high priest band except have a rare chance for a high priest to be added instead of a 2nd sorcerer 21:13:25 Twinge_: is that bad? 21:13:49 why do they need a band? 21:15:08 It seems rather off? They have only 1 less depth than warlords, who come with a massive band (same as Roka), and only come alone. Even regular orcs come with a band half the time, and every other orc always comes in a band. 21:15:23 They summon, though. 21:16:21 so do high priests 21:16:54 yep, same 2 summon options (animate and demon) 21:16:55 @??orc high priest 21:16:56 orc high priest (09o) | Speed: 10 | HD: 11 | Health: 33-77 | AC/EV: 1/12 | Damage: 7 | Flags: evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(58), 05hellfire | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1008 | Sp: pain, demon, smiting, animate dead, minor healing. 21:16:59 @??orc sorcerer 21:16:59 orc sorcerer (13o) | Speed: 10 | HD: 9 | Health: 18-45 | AC/EV: 5/12 | Damage: 7 | Flags: evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(36), 05fire | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 633 | Sp: b.fire, b.draining, demon, paralyse, animate dead, teleport self. 21:17:27 "The spell controlled blink is now only slightly louder than uncontrolled blink." 21:17:33 I don't think either should be loud 21:17:37 huh sorcerers dont have invis.. i didnt know that 21:17:48 TGW: It was previously ten times louder. 21:18:21 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:18:28 Right now they come alone, on D:19 at the earliest usually, and have those weak stats ;) 21:18:37 due: yeah, that was bad 21:18:43 So stop complaining :p 21:19:38 due: I'll complain a tenth as loudly 21:19:41 deal? 21:19:45 hmm demonologists come in bands too. Lots of bands... 21:20:06 TGW: I'll kickban you, deal? 21:20:11 random2(4) is 0-3, or 1-4? 21:20:16 twinge: 0-3 21:20:22 0-3 21:20:37 random2(1) = 0. 21:20:52 Nod. 21:21:07 It tookk me a while to remember this. 21:21:21 Twinge_ has a bit of a head start, though 21:21:31 what's random2(0)? 21:21:37 -1 to 0? 21:21:53 natural_leader means that the mobs try to follow that leader if possible, e.g. with Pikel? 21:22:08 no 21:22:08 Twinge_: No 21:22:14 !lg * ikiller=pikel killer=slave 21:22:20 natural_leader gives "led by" status. 21:22:26 TGW: random2(0) means 0 21:22:27 hmmm 21:22:28 56. fiyawerx the Skirmisher (L6 OgFi), slain by a slave (led by Pikel) on D:3 on 2010-02-05, with 354 points after 4051 turns and 0:11:35. 21:22:34 Ahh. 21:22:37 submergers now seem even more irritating 21:22:52 doy: Based on my summary? 21:22:54 It could be incorrect. 21:22:54 Twinge_: random2(0) = 0 21:23:00 due: no, based on me playing right now 21:23:03 ah 21:23:08 I had to read the commit message to work out what was going on 21:23:12 Er, commit diff. 21:23:15 Twinge_: unlike a certain other random you may be familiar with... this caught me unawares 21:23:19 SEEING AS THE COMMIT MESSAGES WAS VERY UNCLEAR >:0 21:23:26 it only takes natural numbers? 21:23:33 slain by a golden eye (led by a golden eye) 21:23:38 autoexplore is now quite dangerous, since submergers stay submerged until they're adjacent to you 21:23:46 and now you can't pick off submergers at range either 21:23:53 because they're always submerged 21:23:58 Twinge_: Won't happen, but yes. 21:24:05 It won't? 21:24:07 Twinge_: this is why golden eyes don't have natural_leader 21:24:08 They come in packs 21:24:10 @??golden eye 21:24:10 golden eye (08G) | Speed: 13 | HD: 6 | Health: 6-18 | AC/EV: 0/20 | Flags: lev | Res: 13magic(immune), asphyx | XP: 189. 21:24:16 note the lack of attack 21:24:18 oh right 21:24:20 But they don't get natural_leader set 21:24:30 Thought I took an example with leader, nevermind :P 21:24:53 It happens with uniques and non-same monsters. 21:24:55 we need fish that come in schools 21:25:04 TGW: With black boards and all? 21:25:23 sorear: ADOM's is the same? Though it also has die rolls and such. 21:25:52 Twinge_: Random(0) = 0 .. 2^32-1, random2(0) = 0 21:25:59 Oh, hah 21:26:07 The 0 part specifically you meant, right 21:27:20 Crawl has roll_dice(dice, sides) 21:27:35 but nothing analogous to dice("3d6+2") 21:27:57 most of the time we use random2avg(range, dice) 21:28:01 Huh, Crawl just crashed trying to place monsters in debug mode :P 21:28:06 Twinge_: which monster? 21:28:09 which has the same return range as random2(), but less variance 21:28:16 "place:D::27" 21:28:24 er, minus the extra colon 21:28:28 hm 21:29:52 it made one yaktaur captain then repeated something like 'dplace dplace dplace' on the bottom then crashed (withoutmaking a save) 21:30:45 (I did a repeat 24 times deal) 21:31:45 nice 21:32:15 Also - what the? Just did it again after reopening, spawned a mass like it should... and there's an anaconda. which should only spawn in the snake pits. (They have no numbers for the main dungeon) 21:32:54 Shapeshifter 21:32:58 Ah ha 21:33:00 Right, 21:37:57 Hmm, any easy way to know what a monster's power will be? some bands only happen if the monster has enough power 21:38:06 notify_dgn_event: Lua error: [string "dlmain"]:41: attempt to call method 'xy' 21:38:09 _(a nil value) 21:38:12 oh NICE 21:38:16 Twinge_: I'm not sur ehow that works, sorry 21:39:14 That shouldn't evne *happen* 21:39:18 How can :xy be a nil value? 21:39:34 maybe it should be .xy 21:40:04 due: what should lu give zinnites? 21:41:14 Oh, found it (was less hidden than I expected). Looks like in this case it is the same as you.your_level 21:41:32 TGW: intelligent monster corpses! 21:41:43 Twinge_: silly and impossible 21:42:01 does zin disapprove of gain foo? 21:42:21 Impossible because of an arbitrary no corpse restriction :P 21:42:27 ??zin 21:42:27 zin[1/4]: Zin gives mutation resistance (growing to immunity at maximum piety), feeding if you pray when starving, {recite} (enchantment-type effects on humanoids), {vitalization} ('healing' of all sorts / stat boosts), {sanctuary} (creates a temporary attack-free zone), and ("sometimes watches over you") life saving. 21:42:41 ??zin[2] 21:42:41 zin[2/4]: Donating 9322 gold will give 200 piety, assuming you still have the starting 15. Note that in 0.5 Zin only accepts sacrifices of half your gold, so you will need significantly more gold to pull this off. His feeding will set you to 6000 nutrition, the upper end of satiated, like when you start the game. It costs 5 to 14 piety, weighted towards 10. 21:42:59 ??zin[3] 21:42:59 zin[3/4]: In 0.5.1, Zin followers get the ability to be cured of all mutations, once. 21:43:01 ??zin[4] 21:43:02 zin[4/4]: Switch to Zin if: (a) you come from another good god and ran out of piety; (b) you have plenty of money and want to get Sancturary or feeding quickly. 21:43:04 Bleh 21:43:11 I thought I saw that said somewhere, specifically 21:43:28 "Zin (does / does not) care if you use stat boosting potions." or whatever :P 21:43:28 who can i talk to if there's a bug with fightclub? 21:43:29 Zin dislikes it when you perform cannibalism, you drink blood, you use necromancy, you 21:43:29 use unholy magic or items, you attack non-hostile holy beings, you or your allies kill 21:43:29 non-hostile holy beings, you attack neutral beings, you attack allies, you allow allies 21:43:29 to die, you deliberately mutate yourself, you polymorph monsters, you use unclean or 21:43:29 chaotic magic or items or you eat the flesh of sentient beings. 21:43:44 hmm, poly wand maybe 21:43:51 wand of poly / wand of draining 21:43:53 oh, duh 21:43:58 poly. 21:44:03 both! 21:44:05 Timbermaw: what sort of bug? 21:44:17 TGW: stacks of, though 21:44:22 should I give rMut? 21:44:26 i made a titanic slime creature fight, it split, and the fight wouldn't end 21:44:26 HAHAHA YES 21:44:32 Timbermaw: Ah 21:44:33 due: yeah 21:44:52 be 21:44:59 Timbermaw: Locally or the termcast one? 21:45:07 termcast 21:45:10 Timbermaw: this is well known 21:45:26 1) a necro book, 2) 2-4 any gain foo, 3) wand of poly or draining, 4) rMut 21:45:36 orly? is it to do with splitting or changing form? 21:45:36 maybe cure mut as well 21:45:58 Timbermaw: splitting 21:46:01 TGW: Stats of gain stat seem way too generous. Couldn't you switch to a different good god and vhug them down? 21:46:22 ..ok 21:46:28 due: dagger of chaos! 21:46:30 Even 1, you could drink and if you don't have it IDed yet you get the bonus with no penalty, right? 21:46:39 hmm, maybe 21:47:02 Just doesn't seem like these gifts should be, you know, *useful* ;) 21:47:03 zin would probably resist it for you though 21:47:09 he's a nice guy 21:47:22 Timbermaw: the arena tracks how many monsters are alive by faction, and ends the fight when it reaches 0. Non-standard monster addition or subtraction tends to screw it up 21:48:34 I find it kinda funny that big kobolds only spawn bands the 99.9% of the time they're not insanely OOD ;P 21:48:47 they specifically have a weak exception 21:51:54 beogh jiyva kiku lugonu makh nemelex veh xom yred and sorta sif need items 21:51:56 Centaurs have a real exception, You need to be on D:10 or deeper before they band up. So I could always add in special cases per monster, but the idea of a more global one sounds better 21:51:59 (sif needs more) 21:53:00 siffites could get an incentive to stop casting? 21:53:22 would giving a fixedart be too lame? 21:53:26 a nice ring but with -cast on it? 21:53:48 A manual of non-magic-ability would be quite generous but fit your theme 21:54:13 beogh, a weapon of slay orc surely? 21:54:25 MarvinPA: yeah, that's their current list 21:54:31 a battleaxe or broad axe of slay orc 21:54:37 cool 21:54:43 And scrolls of immolation 21:54:52 We already went over him though, hehe 21:54:59 oh haha, yeah 21:55:15 i made the mistake of read-iding immolation on my first HOPr :( 22:03:38 "unnaturally fast items" for chei = weapons of speed, right? 22:03:45 Yes. 22:03:47 And boots of running. 22:05:26 And quick blades. 22:05:56 does "ego:any" work? 22:05:59 or something similar? 22:06:06 i think weapons of speed and boots of running are probably overpowered for this vault 22:06:15 doy: yeah, I'm not going there 22:06:28 I'm afraid of the wand of hasting too 22:06:42 for beogh, does grey disc work? 22:07:21 ahahaha how amusing 22:07:39 is this the first time that over a month of devtime has been spent for a 1x1 square of the dngeon? 22:07:47 sorear: God, no. 22:07:57 "Feawn". 22:08:06 Not a 1x1 square, but comparably the same. 22:08:12 wait, hm? 22:08:35 TGW: bikeshed painting 22:08:56 i don't think this is bikeshedding 22:09:07 This isnn't really bikeshedding, because the discussion is going somewhere. 22:09:11 it is a lot of effort for a single vault though 22:09:12 (: 22:09:17 doy: Not really. 22:09:21 doy: You should see some of mine. 22:10:18 maybe siffites could get a really good heavy armour 22:10:20 but that worries me 22:10:41 TGW: Robe of the archmagi? 22:10:53 I'm not seeing it 22:11:11 It reduces the amont of EXP you get 22:11:15 Which means less EXP to pt into skills 22:11:19 Which means less piety with Sif. 22:11:22 hmm 22:11:23 Borderline, though. 22:11:55 if there were a way to give selective amnesia I'd do that 22:12:00 maybe it could spawn an OCS for siffites 22:12:09 there is 22:12:15 oh, you're right 22:12:18 brb syntax 22:12:24 randbook disc:ench spell:selectiv_amnesia 22:12:29 there's some way of limiting the number of spells too 22:12:37 is it bad that I wrote that annd can't ermember the exact syntax? 22:13:08 selective amnesia doesn't really fit the theme though 22:13:12 doy: yes it does 22:13:14 it's a god power 22:13:23 the idea is "hey, look what you'd be able to do if you followed me" 22:13:30 but sif followers already can forget spells 22:13:56 yeah but it's one less reason to keep sif if you get the spell 22:14:00 Channeling staff 22:14:10 sif doesn't have any conducts 22:14:16 that is the issue 22:14:19 you have to be redundant then 22:14:24 this is easier for gods with conducts 22:14:24 (: 22:14:30 yeah but they're already done 22:14:31 :[ 22:14:46 so does ego:any work? 22:14:53 tias 22:14:58 Can you make a randart with -CAST? 22:15:08 haha tias 22:15:13 I can probably make patent armour or something 22:15:27 Maxwell's Patent Armour isn't enough, though. 22:16:10 Well there's also the sword of the doom knight, but you can just swap out a weapon so a Ne might actually like it 22:16:23 numspells says "will not always be followed" 22:16:28 hrm? 22:16:31 Yeah. 22:16:36 numspells is occasionally ignored 22:16:39 it should be good, though 22:16:57 if you specify 1, you should only get 1. 22:17:39 when does that happen? 22:18:06 if you specify 6 or so and there's only a few spells available 22:18:10 ah 22:18:14 I can't remember the exact specifics 22:20:09 Hm 22:20:18 Is deleting a cloud as simple as setting env.cgrid(c) = NON_CLOUD? 22:21:08 no 22:21:18 clouds, like monsters, have independant existance 22:21:19 Ah 22:21:20 delete_cloud 22:21:26 what should the owner be? 22:21:27 you need to clear something somewhere else 22:21:28 lugonu? 22:21:29 Excellent 22:21:30 TGW: Lugonu 22:21:47 ok, works fine 22:22:30 I take it CPM is out of the picture 22:22:40 CP/M? 22:22:41 CPM/ 22:22:46 crystal plate, sorry 22:22:49 Oh. 22:22:53 For sif? 22:22:56 yeah 22:23:34 i'd say an ego plate mail is probably as high as is reasonable 22:25:24 ponderous? ;) 22:25:31 (: 22:27:02 ok 22:27:36 jiyva kiku lugonu makh nemelex veh xom yred 22:27:47 eight :[ 22:28:12 lugonu should just do nothing 22:28:14 should lugonites not get anything? 22:28:15 ok 22:28:16 or give some message 22:28:17 maybe 22:28:21 Xom should be an apple. 22:28:27 well I'd have to give it another message anyway 22:28:30 due: chaos weapon? 22:28:39 xom should turn the altar into an apple 22:28:43 only, you can't give brands to random weapons so that would be nuts hard :[ 22:29:09 Define a custom set of weapons each having a chaos brand, and randomly pick one? 22:29:46 too much work 22:30:55 is there an item that gives undead? 22:31:17 zonguldrok? 22:31:27 friendly :P 22:31:39 giving fixedarts is kinda meh anyway 22:31:56 nemelex is basically irreplacable I think 22:31:57 Is reaping applied ot weapons or just ammo? 22:32:05 pointless_: ammo and scythes 22:32:21 but I imagine I can make a non-scythe of reaping 22:32:33 kilobyte might stop you 22:32:51 non-scythe of reaping = i hit u 22:33:44 -!- Timbermaw has quit [Quit: later!] 22:35:41 tome of destruction for makhleb? 22:35:44 ??tome of destruction 22:35:44 tome of destruction[1/2]: Casts random conjurations when read. Power depends on evocation skill. Also explodes on occasion. You might also (un)luckily get a random freezing/poisonous cloud, or a hostile small abomination. The page's writing has no bearing on the spell produced. 22:36:27 I was thinking more rodd of demonology. 22:36:56 does tome work? 22:37:11 i think having multiple options for each god is good 22:37:25 yeah 22:37:26 rod of destruction is also cool 22:37:59 rod of destruction is also better than makhleb's stuff 22:38:02 the perfect makhleb-redundant item is, sadly, the Staff of Dispater 22:38:31 hmm 22:38:37 I think ballisto alignment is broken 22:38:48 set an arena fight Sigmund v 50 giant sport 22:38:50 *spore 22:38:54 from ##crawl 22:39:05 some ballistos will be created with Sigmund's alignment 22:39:48 ??staff of dispater 22:39:48 staff of dispater[1/1]: +4,+4 golden quarterstaff. E(v)oke for 100 hunger, -23 hp, -6 mp, Hellfire (power = 8 * Evo) 22:40:01 that's not really makhleb 22:41:13 Hm. 22:41:16 I broke TGW's vault. 22:41:18 It never places a zombie. 22:41:27 Does it currently? 22:41:31 it's ok, I broke my vault too 22:41:34 it did when I submitted it 22:41:54 the human dies, then the miasma clears, and the corpse turns into a zombie 22:41:58 it's really dramatic and shit 22:42:13 ASSERT(_read_offset+size <= _pbuf->size()) in 'tags.cc' at line 129 failed. 22:42:35 I don't know what that means 22:42:46 someone broke save compat? 22:42:55 I'm not sure 22:43:02 Or corrupt database file 22:43:33 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 22:43:36 Nope. :/ 22:43:51 Or... 22:43:52 if I broke save compatability with a vault I'm going to have a party 22:44:00 or is this unrelated 22:44:15 Unrelated. 22:44:25 aw 22:44:40 It's probably a me-thing. 22:46:14 bah 22:46:15 I quit for now 22:49:34 morning all 22:50:12 It's almost 4pm where you are. 22:51:07 stop looking at clocks! 22:51:52 It's almost 3pm where I am! 22:51:56 And to most Americans, it's late night. 22:52:06 ...so? 22:52:17 It's morning somewhere? I suppose you're right. 22:52:20 greetings standard time! 22:52:39 Its always morning when you enter, and night when you leave! 23:01:06 ??kiku 23:01:06 kikubaaqudgha[1/2]: A god specialised for necromancers, gives the abilities to recall undead slaves, permanently enslave undead and summon reapers. Kiku will give book gifts in the following order: Book of Necromancy, Book of Death, Book of Unlife and finally the Necronomicon. Also see {kikubaaqudgha_reasons}. 23:02:22 I don't think anything works for jiyva, kiku, nemelex, vehumet, xom or yred 23:03:16 xom should turn the altar into a xom acquirement 23:03:23 or a swarm of butterflies 23:03:39 It's not Xom's altar. 23:03:43 i know 23:03:45 (: 23:03:47 -!- qbert911 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:04:34 Make the Robe of Misfortune not as easily identifiable when unidentified. (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=727) by psyshvl 23:04:58 does ring of wizardry do anything for vehumites? 23:05:03 yes 23:05:09 erm 23:05:11 do much* 23:05:23 it stacks with vehumet's bonus 23:06:33 ??lugoun 23:06:33 I don't have a page labeled lugoun in my learndb. 23:06:35 ??lugonu 23:06:35 lugonu[1/3]: Lugonu grants the ability to leave the abyss, {bend space}, banish monsters to the abyss, invoke {corruption}, and teleport freely within the abyss. You can banish yourself instantly at a permanent maxhp cost, and permanently distortion-brand a weapon once at an altar of Lugonu, which can be easily made by using {corruption} in the Temple. 23:07:24 I guess veh and xom could get manuals of invo 23:07:49 Yeah that works 23:08:12 only one option breaks my heart though 23:08:13 :\ 23:08:15 Nod 23:08:55 Give Xom worshippers a gate to the abyss ;) 23:09:01 why 23:09:22 Xom won't help you get out, Lug will :P Shrug 23:13:16 now, if I could just figure out why Conjuration-school matching isn't working... 23:13:29 give xom worshippers a thick transparent stone and metal box filled with loot 23:13:54 3 deep n, then 2 | inside 23:14:12 !oCureMut 23:16:31 if(spell_typematch(spell, SPTYP_CONJURATION)) // <-- this should work, right? 23:17:57 yes 23:18:24 Textmode: What do you need it for? 23:18:47 favored spell highlighting (you'll probably just reef it out, but still...why isn't it working? 23:19:02 all spells are favoured. 23:19:08 We don't need to babbysit the player :0 23:20:05 god favored spells 23:20:28 there are any? 23:21:13 vehumet 23:21:18 mostly 23:21:40 Like I said, you'll probably just reef it out :P 23:22:14 veh also favors shatter, lrd, sandblast 23:22:16 Anyone know why rats are depth:4 compared to goblin's depth:1? 23:22:26 twinge: because they're very tough 23:22:53 either that, or because linley was heavily intoxicated 23:23:04 its fifty/fifty :P 23:23:23 I mean, its fairly obvious from the code that he was on something P 23:27:12 I don't know how to do this without being terribly inelegant 23:27:30 I want it to give a different message and give up if you're worshipping any of six gods 23:31:51 if you.god() == "Lugonu" or you.god() == ... 23:32:24 lua? 23:32:45 You could make the whole thing a big switch statement, and just have case XOM case LUGONU etc. 23:33:32 No switches in Lua. 23:33:34 local gods = {Lugonu = true, Xom = true, etc}; if gods[you.god()] then 23:33:44 or just have the table contain functions 23:33:47 get the idea? 23:33:59 table of functions works too. 23:34:22 function nope() end local gods = { Lugonu = nope, Makhleb = function() ... end, ... } 23:35:36 -!- kats has joined ##crawl-dev 23:40:04 why the hell doesn't it highlight conj spells? 23:41:40 ... 23:42:04 let me refine that, why isn't it working in the casting menu? seems to be fine everywhere else :/ 23:42:33 and *just* conjuration, other spells handled by the same block of code are working perfectly... 23:54:37 due: what do you think about mara's illusion spell against the player using @ rather than p? 23:54:59 Sure 23:55:30 doy: Should be doable, too. 23:55:49 MONS_PLAYER_ILLUSION, '@', WHITE, "player illusion", 23:55:51 :) 23:56:44 heh 23:58:34 builds don't really seem faster to me... 23:58:57 What's the 'depth' fo Vestibule? 30?