00:02:51 -!- henryci has joined ##crawl-dev 00:03:13 -!- mumblerit has quit [] 00:06:20 !messages 00:06:20 (1/1) Cryp71c said (8m 47s ago): Implemented a patch for removing DS Blink / Teleport mutations a while back. Looks like its quietly slipped through the cracks, and I hear you're the DS specialist nowadays :) Feel free to take a look if you have time: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=502 00:06:50 Cryp71c: New DS are not going to make 0.6 00:07:12 are they going to be rolled back to how they are in 0.5? 00:07:16 yes 00:07:18 aww :( 00:07:42 dpeg has pushed the 0.6 feature deadline ahead by two months, DS polish won't make it 00:07:44 my only win so far was on a trunk DS, they're cool! 00:07:58 ah, fair enough 00:08:48 sorear, :( is there an official .6 feature deadline? Anyway we can get the DS changes to make it in time? 00:09:12 The day after tomorrow 00:09:19 rofl..yeah..maybe not. 00:09:44 sorear, the DS changes will remain in trunk though, correct? 00:09:53 Correct 00:10:03 Put spell reagents back in the wield menu (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=602) by OG17 00:10:36 The 0.6 development cycle was far too long, we're hoping to release 0.7 *before* 2012 00:10:49 When was .5 put out? 00:11:14 !lg * cv=0.5 1 x=start 00:11:21 1. [start=2008-07-11] Tityrus the Spear-Bearer (L8 CeCK), worshipper of Lugonu, mangled by a yak on D:8 on 2008-07-12, with 2110 points after 7106 turns and 0:42:43. 00:12:02 That's not terrible...1 year and 4 months for .6 00:12:03 !lg * cv=0.5 min=start x=start 00:12:07 205793. [start=-01-] Lemuel the Skirmisher (L0 XXFi), starved to death on D:1 on 2008-10-15, with 0 points after 1447 turns and 0:01:25. 00:12:15 !lg * cv=0.5 min=start xl!=0 x=start 00:12:21 205787. [start=2008-07-06] DrP2 the Archmage (L27 HEWz), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, blasted by a greater mummy (divine providence) on Tomb:2 on 2008-07-14, with 568867 points after 164351 turns and 35:34:03. 00:12:36 Oh 00:12:46 That includes pre-release games 00:12:50 !lg * cv=0.5 min=start xl!=0 x=start src=cao 00:12:56 166781. [start=2009-06-13] test the Caller (L1 MfSu), slain by a snake on D:3 on 2009-06-13, with 24 points after 172 turns and 0:00:47. 00:13:31 So how was the .6 cycle too long when it only took you...6 months to put it out and you're expecting .7 to take 2 years? 00:13:44 8* 00:13:55 8 months* 00:14:14 I'm not 00:14:24 I thought .6 took 2 years and I wanted .7 to be sooner 00:14:29 I have no sense of time :/ 00:14:50 lol, gotcha...I think. 00:15:08 So are all DS-related commits being held off until the .6 release is ready? 00:15:35 But DS-as-they-are is the 0.6 rlease, yes? 00:15:46 So quick polishes should be okay. 00:15:57 There's no sane way that I can think of to revert them back to how they used to be. 00:16:32 due, idk...sorear said way back ^^ that DS were being rolled back to their .5 state 00:16:40 which..yeah, would be very tough 00:16:46 Wow, really? Huh. 00:17:05 Yeah I don't see that workign out very well, actually. 00:17:06 Considering how integrated the mutation changes are into the current trunk code, I can see that taking more time than polishing them would. 00:17:07 Well wait. 00:17:23 Yeah IDK. 00:20:44 sorear, well in any case, because of DS not making it into the .6 release, my patch can't be done until after .6 is released (to prevent from confusing up the trunk build any more).. ? Am I somewhat near what's going on? 00:28:25 -!- henryci has left ##crawl-dev 00:33:09 Eh, you can !tell me, I'm heading to bed. 00:33:12 -!- Cryp71c has quit [] 00:37:47 !tell Cryp71c No, it can go in. 00:37:47 sorear: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 00:38:44 due: I don't think it would be too bad - the mutation changes are *mostly* confined to roll_demonspawn_mutations 00:40:15 So I just need to delete roll_remonspawn_mutations, put in the 0.5 demonspawn(), replace the current demonspawn level_change clause with the old one 00:41:04 Ah. 00:41:12 You just mean the method of gaining the mutations, not the actual mutations? 00:41:25 Right 00:41:42 Okay. 00:41:44 That makes sense. 00:41:50 I don't think any of the old DS mutations have actually been axed yet 00:42:10 There's still the HP% for mutated spell-like abilities, and the mapping overhaul 00:42:13 But 0.5 00:42:25 But 0.5 DS can still exist with those 00:42:31 Yeah. 00:42:34 That makes a lot of sense. 01:09:21 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 01:09:43 good morning! 01:10:11 hey rob! 01:10:21 today is not argh central, hooray. 01:14:05 what do you think of Lemuel's idea of just randomizing movement cost instead of total energy? 01:17:04 That was what I thought the original idea was. 01:17:39 no, it currently randomizes the amount of energy gained per turn 01:18:20 so in melee, a monster that takes 10 energy for attacking might get two attacks at once occasionally 01:20:49 Yeah. 01:20:51 I understand that 01:20:52 03nrook * r9e9125fb4d43 10/crawl-ref/source/spells4.cc: Make fulsome distillation not prompt the player when there is only one corpse. 01:21:28 When it ws originally proposed, I was, "Oh yes, that's an excellent idea!" And then I said "Movement energy only, right?" and someone said "No, all energy." 01:21:32 And I think I made a :/ face. 01:21:53 weel, there's no such thing as "movement energy" 01:23:04 randomizing just movement wouldn't really help with pillar dancing or kiting, would it? 01:23:38 doy: I think it would 01:24:22 hmm 01:26:58 say a monster has 79 energy, gets 10, moves for 9, it gets a free hit 01:38:51 by: Yeah. 01:39:00 by: I forget the exact terms and how everythiing works. 01:39:11 hmm, I get back and the same discussion :) 01:39:44 cbus: Go away, we'll see if it hapens again. 01:39:57 cbus: nobody can seem to get over it d: 01:40:30 due, I'm not entering the energy discussion again :) 01:40:39 I pretty much said all I can think off 01:41:18 * due points at topic. 01:55:02 man, been a while since i played a conjurer 01:55:13 i forgot how incredibly squishy kenku are 01:55:23 xl6, 28 hp 01:56:42 on the other hand, my first kecj hasn't splatted by d:5, regardless of the speed changes 01:57:02 !lg 01:57:03 1258. bookofjude the Eclecticist (L14 SpVM), worshipper of Fedhas, blasted by Saint Roka (divine providence) on Orc:4 on 2010-01-29, with 54374 points after 45964 turns and 3:17:23. 01:57:05 :( 01:57:05 you doing playtesting on the speed stuff? :) 01:58:46 cbus: would be kinda hypocritical of me not to! 01:59:01 might try it out too, if the connection allows me too (sucky 3g) 02:03:57 why does the innate 'fly' ability of kenku have an mp cost? 02:04:03 that seems really odd 02:05:08 I have no idea, it seems silly. 02:19:52 bah 02:20:03 quaff-iding berserk rage is kinda dangerous 02:22:49 something tells me that napkin didn't read the "don't speculate" part 02:30:14 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 02:30:21 Morning 02:30:38 hello 02:31:07 morning dpeg 02:32:01 What is our convention? 02:32:11 switch (p) or switch ( p ) ? 02:32:28 I do switch (p) 02:32:32 ok 02:32:41 but switch( really long expression that needs to be seen ) 02:32:56 one single letters here 02:33:44 for 0.6 DS, are we using the 0.5 model or the current incomplete trunk model? 02:33:54 I thought the former, but the question came up 02:36:10 Heck, I don't know. 02:36:27 sorear: The guaranteed growth could stay, I think. 02:36:51 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:01 the guaranteed growth, but no other changes, leads to a pretty ridiculous race 02:37:11 very high chance of rF+++ or speed 3 etc 02:37:34 * sorear is amused by the huge amount of fallout from the speed change 02:37:41 Talk about fallout. 02:38:03 players == wimps 02:38:54 sorear: yes, I know. Le sigh. 02:39:18 i'm really liking this "not hanging out in ##crawl anymore" thing 02:39:22 much less annoyance 02:39:23 yeah 02:39:42 doy: but ##crawl has degenerated from our absence. Little talk, I saw. 02:40:37 I told them all to stop whinging and play the bloody fucking changes before passing judgment, and then left. :) 02:40:43 (I slunk in a few hours later.) 02:41:02 * dpeg likes the effing expletives! 02:41:13 They wer ejust going off of each other. 02:41:22 And there was only one person who'd actually played it and was making sane ccomments on it. 02:41:29 Who was it? 02:41:32 Elliptic 02:41:41 Ah, he's a good guy, yes. 02:41:56 He's not too sure about the change. 02:42:06 I think it just requires a change of mindset and tactics. 02:42:28 yes 02:42:52 For pedagogical reasons alone we cannot give right now. 02:43:17 *give in 02:44:27 It is a nerf to melee, sure. 02:45:11 Someone pointed out that it means that missile-users can come onto the screen and shoot at the same time. 02:45:21 rob suggested making it a movement-only instead of an everything-only change. 02:47:53 i barely noticed the change when i played beyond it randomly putting a square between me and things i was running away from 02:48:00 due: yes, it can surely be modified 02:48:12 dpeg: That would address most of the perceived negative things, I think. 02:48:23 And retain it as purely a kiting/door dancing nerf. 02:48:31 Mu_: same here. I mean, I *saw* it and I wondered for a moment, then I liked how the monsters behave a bit less mechanically now. 02:48:43 by, ping. 02:57:58 back 02:58:11 Hey rob. 02:58:38 by: I suggested your suggestion about making it movement only. 03:00:44 it was Lemuel's suggestion on the wiki 03:00:54 I also suggested something. 03:01:08 note that it won't necessarily help with monsters moving into view and then shooting 03:01:20 s/necessarily// 03:01:32 I suggested that a monster which got an extra action from the +1 may only use it for movement. 03:01:34 Hm. 03:01:45 dpeg: I'm for this. 03:02:01 by: Because they'll use less energy for moving into view, and still have energy left over to shoot? 03:02:09 yes 03:02:27 It'll reduce the occurences though, surely? 03:02:30 Maybe I misunderstand. 03:05:06 dpeg: I'm not sure how your proposed change would work 03:05:14 was just about to ask you :) 03:05:31 I want to make sure that the extra action is only spent on movement. 03:05:36 There must be a way to achieve that. 03:06:53 03dpeg * r1b139c3dd7ed 10/crawl-ref/source/overmap.cc: Very minor tweaks to Ctrl-O screen. 03:07:00 re the extra ranged attacks, making the "notice the player" cause a little energy could help 03:07:13 s/cause/cost/ 03:07:20 * due for this. 03:07:40 When it was first suggested, I thought it would be purely for movement. 03:07:47 I still don't like the idea of it applying to everything. 03:10:20 -!- scarf has joined ##crawl-dev 03:11:06 we could have separate action and movement energy, with add_energy giving +10 to action and +9-11 to movement, and any actions subtracting the used energy from both counters 03:11:31 by: is this an attempt to nerf pillar-dancing? 03:11:31 movement would be allowed for moveenergy >= 80, other actions for actionenergy >= 80 03:12:08 we're discussing alternatives to the current energy+-1 experiment 03:12:33 Pillar dancing already got nerfed to hell and back :) 03:12:35 what if movement was allowed if energy >= 80 + random2(2) 03:12:52 er, - 03:13:08 sorear: interesting 03:13:13 that woudl do the trick 03:13:17 average speeds of monsters don't change, but sometimes they can take moves 'early' 03:13:20 that might have the same effect 03:13:29 without the need for separate counters? 03:13:32 but: it won't allow monsters to hit you when pillar dancing 03:14:29 yeah, true. 03:14:33 hm 03:15:15 either version would prevent hitting during pillar dances, I think 03:15:44 arg, not good 03:19:52 !tell kilobyte Hi Adam, just talked to Jude. It'd be great if you could do the submerger change, so he can focus on the troves. Thanks! 03:19:52 dpeg: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 03:20:12 I currently like randomizing movement cost + energy cost for noticing the player, but I'm not sure we should make any changes this quickly 03:21:04 by: no, we shouldn't. 03:21:17 pillar dancing monsters being able to whack you is crucial 03:21:19 03by * r56544e87726d 10/crawl-ref/source/message.cc: Revert "An attempt at preventing "double" more prompts." 03:21:56 by: any hope for the Cheib changes, so I can test the god? 03:22:36 dpeg: so many things :) message window also needs work 03:22:41 dpeg: will try today 03:22:45 I understand. 03:22:55 But I can hear a god weeping. Slowly. 03:23:12 Very slowly. 03:23:19 Ponderously! 03:23:36 What about a rule stating that no monster may act twice, so they'll have to spend one action with movement? 03:23:56 Also breaks the breaking pillar dancing, no? 03:24:41 dpeg: that would horrendously nerf executioners, monster haste, orbs of fire, Snorg etc etc 03:25:21 We could just make the -1/+1 rarer. 03:25:44 Twinge indicated that there was instances of monsters coing into view and attacking the player via missiles at least every second level. 03:25:48 *coming. 03:25:55 due: no? 03:26:48 * due doesn't know, sigh. 03:26:49 trying the energy change btw 03:27:39 isn't "moderately wounded" supposed to be coloured? 03:27:57 03by 07movespeed * rb5f40eae1170 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Revert "Randomise monster energy slightly." 03:29:51 i don't think that separating energy into separate movement and action energy is the way to go 03:30:07 we really don't need to be making the system any more complicated than it already is 03:32:13 i don't particularly like making the randomization only apply to move speed, but if that would be acceptable and would keep us from being pressured into doing other sillier things, i'd be okay with it 03:33:58 SpWz[summ], why did I never think of this before? 03:34:19 due, they work nicely/ 03:35:59 @?? centaur 03:35:59 centaur (07c) | Speed: 15 | HD: 4 | Health: 12-32 | AC/EV: 3/7 | Damage: 10 | Res: 06magic(16) | XP: 111. 03:36:12 by: what is your change? 03:36:41 10:20 <+by> I currently like randomizing movement cost + energy cost for noticing the player, but I'm not sure we should make any changes this quickly 03:36:53 dpeg: note this is on a branch 03:37:00 branches are good. 03:37:19 by: I note! 03:43:42 IMO, nerfing pillar dancing is good just because it's bad for optimal strategy to be boring 03:43:47 pillar dancing is the pudding farming of Crawl 03:51:11 ooh, btw, the speed change also nerfs poison + running 03:51:18 (so that includes assassins) 03:52:12 unless you outspeed the opponents 03:52:15 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:52:22 cbus: how so? aside from having to maybe run one turn earlier? 03:52:23 I suspect it's going to make swiftness better 03:52:40 by: presumably corners 03:52:48 if you go round a corner and see a monster, you're now at range 1 03:52:53 or 2 03:52:54 by, one turn is alot if you have to reapply poison 04:15:47 03by 07movespeed * rb4307e0d2168 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Randomize movement energy loss. 04:15:52 03by 07movespeed * r776298257a22 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h mon-util.h monster.cc): Add energy usage type for noticing the player. 04:15:54 03by 07movespeed * r0652bec2fe35 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-behv.cc: Make monsters lose energy when noticing the player. 04:19:18 wait, does that mean they won't get to attack on that turn? 04:19:34 If they come into view and notice you, they won't attack on that turn. 04:19:44 As in, if they move into view. 04:19:45 that's terrible, sorry 04:19:49 What? 04:19:52 Oh, for fuck's sake. 04:19:54 -!- due has left ##crawl-dev 04:20:31 not if the player moves into their view then? 04:21:56 -!- jld has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:23:17 syllogism: they should still get an attack, just not two 04:23:50 i.e., they usually start with +10 energy, lose 4 for noticing you, and another 10 for acting 04:24:12 -!- jld has joined ##crawl-dev 04:29:07 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 04:29:16 so 04:29:23 TGW points out that iguana are six feet long 04:29:24 in some instances 04:29:30 do we still need to call them giant iguana? 04:30:06 Just "iguana" is fine with me. 04:30:08 also, spammals is still massively overpowered. 04:30:14 Keskitalo: I really want just "iguana". 04:30:42 Green iguanas are three to six feet long. 04:30:50 That's as big as a human. 04:37:31 spammals is even better than summon flame for keeping distance 04:37:42 and better than summoning demons as Makhleb, too, because it's cheaper 04:37:55 (against anacondas I really was just summoning demons to displace them for one turn of distance) 04:45:28 I honestly htink spammals needs to become xl2. 04:51:13 scarf, 3's or 1`s? 04:51:27 cbus: 3s 04:51:33 you can't meaningfully spam 1s 04:51:41 you won't need to either :) 04:51:41 and I didn't have enough piety to generate them anyway 04:51:54 amazingly, an anaconda can one-shot most 3s 04:52:19 on the plus side, sometimes I ended up with a horde of anaconda zombies 04:52:29 why do necromancy yourself when you can summon demons to do it for you? 04:53:57 Okay, I am definitely changing iguanas. 04:54:02 Gila monsters only grow to two feet long. 04:55:52 Also, why don't they have a poison attack? 04:57:43 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 04:58:18 03by * rfab2318e7c5e 10/crawl-ref/source/godconduct.cc: Fix godconduct.cc indentation. 05:06:10 @?? bat 05:06:11 unknown monster: "bat" 05:06:13 @?? giant bat 05:06:15 giant bat (15b) | Speed: 30 | HD: 1 | Health: 2-5 | AC/EV: 1/14 | Damage: 1 | Flags: sense invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(1) | XP: 1. 05:06:26 @?? killer bee 05:06:27 killer bee (07k) | Speed: 20 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 2/18 | Damage: 1008(poison) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(12) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 61. 05:07:01 it seems weird to me that poisonous monsters with poisonous chunks are vulnerable to rather than immune to poison 05:07:39 scarf: maybe it's because you're not skilled enough to separate the poison from the rest? 05:08:06 by: I don't understand what you just said 05:08:28 the bee has poison in some part 05:08:29 Should I give gila monsters a poison attack? 05:08:52 maybe the character is too dumb to cut that part away 05:08:57 ah 05:08:58 oh, rob 05:09:24 just an attempt at rationalizing the fact :) 05:09:41 if (Options.autoinscribe_cursed) 05:09:41 if (you.weapon()->inscription.find("was cursed") == std::string::npos) 05:09:44 add_inscription(*you.weapon(), "was cursed"); 05:09:45 Why does that not work? 05:11:04 how does it not work? 05:11:28 it doesn't add the inscription ever. 05:11:40 Instead of just when the inscription doesn't already contain "was cursed". 05:14:25 due: don't know; I'd have to start a debugger 05:14:34 bah. I'll try compiling again 05:14:39 it was supposed to be a quick fix last night 05:14:52 ut that's the right syntax, yeah? 05:15:32 I tend to think that if expressions like that compile, they're usually correct 05:15:44 that may be a wrong assumption with C++ though :) 05:15:51 * due fetches C++ in a nutsheell 05:20:12 @?? executioner 05:20:12 Executioner (151) | Speed: 20 | HD: 12 | Health: 36-96 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Damage: 30, 10, 10 | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(144), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 2369 | Sp: pain, haste. 05:20:40 @?? orb of fire 05:20:40 orb of fire (05*) | Speed: 20 | HD: 30 | Health: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | Flags: 11non-living, see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 04hellfire+++, 02cold, 10elec++, 09poison+++ | XP: 11717 | Sp: b.fire, polymorph other, fireball. 05:21:33 dpeg: for che piety, should faster monsters give more piety? 05:22:53 dpeg: should hasted monsters be considered fast? should monsters that can haste be considered fast? 05:23:16 Monsters that are hasted should be considered abhorrent, more so than monsters that are simply fast. 05:23:29 Because they've changed themselves to be faster, instead of making themselves slower. 05:23:42 (My opinion) 05:29:58 ... okay 05:30:38 Did someone turn autoinscirbe_cursed off? 05:33:05 Okay, something is wrong wiith my build. 05:33:08 -!- due was kicked from ##crawl-dev by due [No, something is wrong with YOUR BRAIN.] 05:33:10 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 05:33:11 That felt good. 05:38:50 03due * rdbd733c53b38 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Rename "giant iguana" to "iguana". 05:38:52 03due * r0f8e2e0cd2c4 10/crawl-ref/source/spells3.cc: Fix "was cursed was cursed was cursed" ad infinitum. 05:39:01 Oh crap 05:39:07 I didn't mean to push that iguana one just yet 05:40:09 less time will be spent deliberating 05:40:09 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 05:40:36 unless someone protests, let's consider the issue finished 05:40:40 !messages 05:40:40 (1/1) dpeg said (2h 20m 48s ago): Hi Adam, just talked to Jude. It'd be great if you could do the submerger change, so he can focus on the troves. Thanks! 05:40:42 iguanas? 05:40:49 yeah 05:40:52 Oh 05:40:57 I hadn't fixed the .des and description files 05:41:13 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 05:41:14 ah 05:41:16 hiya zaba 05:41:32 03due * rb4f4e76f122a 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Fully finish the giant iguana -> iguana change. 05:41:36 giant ant shoul stay as is 05:41:42 giant bat, too. 05:42:01 Sigh, most of the rest aren't really dropable. 05:42:12 though I am responsible for giant leech. 05:43:12 an ant is freaking two millimeters long; in Crawl, one kills squishy chars dead and produces several chunks worth of food 05:43:48 Yeah. 05:43:56 however 05:43:57 @??worm 05:43:58 worm (04w) | Speed: 6 | HD: 5 | Health: 15-40 | AC/EV: 1/5 | Damage: 12 | Res: 06magic(13) | XP: 12. 05:44:08 They're not "giant worms". 05:44:35 -!- syllogism has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:44:37 We don't *have* to use scale adjectives just to go "omg this is a big threat because it's BIG"; all monsters are usually a threat, we can say, "Actually, this monster is larger than any bat you've *ever* seen." in the description. 05:46:08 giant bats aren't a big threat 05:46:13 they're just, larger than normal bats 05:48:48 -!- Zaba_ has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:48:53 moin 05:49:06 hiya 05:49:16 I want to make a hydra-shaped Swamp ending. 05:50:13 hm 05:50:15 I though tso 05:50:25 the lernaean hydra is wrong, it doesn't breathe poison 05:52:17 but many players have rPois in swamp 05:52:31 doesn't matter 05:52:36 historically wrong! 05:57:29 -!- scarf is now known as scarf|away 05:57:39 -!- scarf|away is now known as scarf 06:00:51 Zaba: Around? 06:01:02 yes 06:01:16 Zaba: http://pastebin.ca/1770651 06:02:20 I like the general idea, but not that shape. 06:02:27 what branch is that for? 06:02:37 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:02:41 Swamp. 06:03:40 has anyone read Revelation Space (yes this isn't ##crawl-offtopic)? Wondering if it's worth checking out 06:04:07 hm 06:04:26 due, I kinda like the idea, too 06:04:32 are there plans for animating the tiles in the tiles mode of crawl? 06:04:46 bhaak: yup. 06:04:53 due: cool 06:07:21 tiles require a high-end machine for the equivalent of a 1990 era game (there was a lot of tile ones then). And now you want to have 1995-era graphics (animated tiles)? Who will have the machine for THAT? 06:07:36 I have a netbook, does that count? 06:08:35 1995-era graphics just for animating tiles? dude, I had animating tiles on the Amiga at the end of the 80ies 06:08:58 are there plans for animating the tiles in the ASCII mode of crawl? 06:09:07 bhaak: that's done with things like runes already 06:09:13 they change colour every step 06:09:24 btw, how do you turn that off? it's rather confusing for a bot to deal with 06:09:24 I mean, common. I mean popular games like Warlords (1, 2) or Heroes of Might and Magic (1, 2, 3) 06:09:37 due: You broke tiles!! 06:09:41 Keskitalo: Oh? 06:09:47 scarf: redefine it in .crawlrc 06:09:49 Keskitalo: What's wrong with it? 06:09:50 scarf: or altars. but I don't mean every step, I mean realtime 06:09:52 Error (dc-corpse.txt:42): couldn't load image 'giant_iguana'. 06:09:52 Error (dc-main.txt:14): include failed. 06:09:56 :/ 06:10:08 Oh 06:10:09 Bah 06:10:10 (I just tried update-mingw-tiles) :) 06:10:18 * due fixes 06:10:18 bhaak: ttyrec would have even more of a fit than Crawl currently gives it 06:10:24 due: Thanks. :) 06:10:38 scarf: who cares? :) 06:10:52 bhaak: well, I do, to some extent 06:11:03 03due * r2cf65be4db05 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-corpse.txt: Fix tiles. 06:11:06 and I imagine rax and paxed do just because it would make server maintenance a bit worse 06:11:49 NetHack has to rewrite the screen only when you blank it (inventory, etc). Crawl has to do that every move thanks to scrolling. 06:11:49 scarf: if the player doesn't move, it would only be updating single tiles, not the whole screen (what it does, if you move in one direction because of the centering on the playeR) 06:12:00 Error (dc-mon.txt:41): couldn't load image 'iguana'. 06:12:01 Error (dc-corpse.txt:42): couldn't load image 'iguana'. 06:12:05 :| 06:12:25 well, water and lava would be among the first tiles to animate 06:12:25 That makes no sense 06:12:26 bhaak: I was under the impression that Crawl tended to update the screen arbitrarily anyway, which is why crawl ttyrecs are so much bigger than nethack ttyrecs 06:13:04 scarf: I thought, it was mainly because the whole map moves, when you move. 06:13:18 Keskitalo: That doesn't makee any sense. 06:13:26 bhaak: even then, many of the individual squares will stay the same 06:13:27 Keskitalo: Can you check to make sure tha tthere's a dc-mon/animals/iguana.png? 06:14:19 why would there be 06:14:32 if you didn't rename it? 06:14:37 syllogism: I did rename it. 06:14:50 I don't see it 06:14:52 scarf: but doesn't crawl sent a redraw even for the ones that stay the same? ttyrec just saves the stream of bytes that comes through, it doesn't save the screen as a whole (and so can't notice that just redraw a certain position with the glyph that was already there) 06:15:03 due: You probably forgot to git add it+ 06:15:09 Oh, bah. 06:15:10 Thanks. 06:15:14 No problem. :) 06:15:24 kilobyte: that water and lava aren't animated in tiles mode where what ticked me to that question 06:15:27 bhaak: that's the issue, what I remember from previous discussions was that Crawl keeps redrawing squares that stay the same, even when there's no reason to, and bloating the ttyrec size that way 06:16:00 03due * rcb1ee35260f7 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-mon/animals/iguana.png: Whoops. 06:16:19 bhaak: doy seems to be the expert on this, but I think curses only sends out what has actually changed 06:16:48 bhaak: and the amount of calls to refresh() has been greatly reduced since a few months ago 06:16:54 Keskitalo: Okay, that should be fixed. 06:17:11 bhaak: would be interesting to see if the ttyrecs improved 06:18:11 I meant to go Sif Muna. 06:18:13 curses tries to guess what would be the optimal way. Usually that means not changing the squares that stay the same, although it may be cheaper to rewrite them than to reposition the cursor. 06:18:21 by: oh, I completely forgot that crawl uses curses. Yes, that should mean that only real changes get sent 06:19:19 I remember some web ttyrec player; anyone have the link? 06:19:42 there's a java version 06:19:51 http://www-masu.ist.osaka-u.ac.jp/~kakugawa/misc/ttyplayer/index-en.shtml 06:20:15 the only web one I know is: http://www.alt.org/nethack/ttyrecscreen.php 06:20:29 but you really want ipbt 06:22:03 IPBT is nice. 06:22:05 ipbt is INSANELY slow 06:22:19 not really; it has a very slow startup, and is then insanely fast from then on 06:23:36 yeah, ipbt is good stuff 06:23:48 some time last winter someone posted a link that showed how much worse crawl ttyrecs played in some online player 06:24:31 a couple of minutes is not just "very slow", especially when my termplay can analyze the whole file in 0.01sec. 06:24:40 ipbt has somewhat nicer UI, though 06:25:20 kilobyte: does termplay allow rewinding? 06:25:33 yeah 06:26:28 by: re Che piety: my proposal is to compare only base movement speed (so without hasting/slowing) 06:26:29 the difference is, ipbt keeps a separate image of EVERY SINGLE FREAKING FRAME in memory. This means it takes several hundred megs for your average Crawl ttyrec. 06:27:28 dpeg: and just a flat 1 piety if speed is higher than averag? or more piety for faster? 06:27:48 by the way, is there any way to see god penance from inside the game? 06:27:51 and is there meant to be? 06:28:41 due: Build done, thanks! 06:28:43 dpeg: I think you should be rewarded somehow for killing hasty monsters 06:28:59 scarf: Ctrl-O right now, but that's debatable. You can always come to an altar of that god and pray. 06:29:07 by: more piety (could be random) depending on speed difference,yes 06:29:24 kilobyte: except in the case of Lugonu, who has special-cased prayer under penance 06:29:27 ok; I'll just use a mons_fastness function that can be adapted 06:29:30 scarf: this doesn't work for good gods though (you'll always get "XXX is ready to forgive your sins") 06:29:30 by: Ruinous Time still awards hasted monsters! 06:30:02 and you can always ?: and search for mollify messages 06:30:21 Re Iguana: I approve of getting rid of "giant", but I don't think now is the best time. Couldn't this have waited until 0.6 is out? innocous changes like this always lead to trailing errors, be it mosnter descriptions or whatever. 06:30:29 -!- dpeg is now known as dpegwork 06:30:34 dpegwork: I can revert, if necessary. 06:30:40 dpeg: re hasty: not for mechanical reasons, more for flavour 06:30:59 dpegwork: But I think I've hit every monster description and file relevant. 06:31:18 BTW, I fixed the bug when Chei allowed you to cast haste on monsters just to slouch them. 06:31:41 so if a monster is hasted, it was because it did that itself 06:31:45 kilobyte: yes, he dislikes hasting others now, right? 06:31:56 by: yeah 06:32:09 the only problematic case I see is the possibility of keeping around a monster with haste other 06:34:25 hrm, what does mons->speed >= 100 encode? 06:34:43 Oh 06:34:43 100? 06:34:47 Are we branching 0.6 soon? 06:34:56 There's an issue with tiles that still hasn't been resolved. 06:35:29 !source monsters::add_enchantment_effect 06:35:35 Lines pasted to http://pastebin.com/m7d345a1c 06:35:47 kilobyte: check ENCH_HASTE there 06:36:19 due: Which issue? 06:36:38 it looks like (speed >= 100) is some kind of flag 06:37:21 Keskitalo: Transparency on some platforms (specifically my work machine). 06:37:51 Ah, Enne is working on that am I correct? 06:38:39 Keskitalo: Yeah, the latest changes made don't seem to fix it, though. 06:49:25 dpegwork, Zaba, Keskitalo: http://pastebin.ca/1770702 Shape I'm playing with for a swamp ending. 06:53:52 Three chambers, I like it. 06:54:52 Looks a bit like a guy partying wildly, or a tree in the wind. 06:56:42 !tell greensnark Do you remember about the issue that monsters::fix_speed works around? Also, what does monsters::speed >= 100 mean? 06:56:43 by: OK, I'll let greensnark know. 06:59:26 I'm here :) 06:59:26 greensnark: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 06:59:42 hello greensnark :) 07:00:09 There were bug reports with monsters that had absurdly large speed_increments 07:00:25 Either a problem with restoring saves or memory corruption 07:00:34 Keskitalo: It's suppose dto be a hydra head. 07:00:39 fix_speed may not be necessary now 07:01:15 may remove it in a general monster speed clean-up after 0.6, then 07:01:30 Yes 07:01:40 When are we branching 0.6? 07:01:42 due: Will it grow another if you LRD it off? (I'm sure you could script that :)) 07:01:44 I believe it was also used in the monster level-up code to set the new speed 07:01:53 Keskitalo: Hehehe, too painful. 07:02:00 but a fun idea. 07:02:17 Oh 07:02:30 I'm just checking mons_base_speed for now, but do you happen to know what speed>=100 encodes? 07:02:40 greensnark: I broke the Lua that puts reagents in the wield menu. Can you look at this at some point in time? 07:02:43 by: "Impossible speed" :) 07:03:27 Reagents? 07:03:37 Oh wield.lua? 07:03:40 Yeah. 07:03:47 Oh. 07:03:55 ch_item_wieldable probably isn't being called properly. 07:03:59 -!- Giomancer has joined ##Crawl-Dev 07:04:01 greensnark: hasting or slowing a monster scales monsters::speed or (monsters::speed - 100) 07:04:01 I should be able to fix it, no worries. 07:04:09 (I'll look at the commit that fix ch_item_can_butcher, etc). 07:05:51 by: I see that 07:06:00 I do not recall that code :) 07:06:20 ok; mon-data.h doesn't have anything with over 30 it appears 07:06:24 I don't think it is possible for speed to exceed 100 under any circumstances currently 07:07:13 there's a check in the main monster energy loop against speed >= 100 that could really do with a comment :) 07:07:32 err did something break monster debugging info 07:08:00 by: Yeah, I have no idea what that's trying to do :P 07:08:04 it's not showing anything when I x them 07:08:15 greensnark: ok, don't worry, I thought you might know 07:08:43 oh you've to press D now 07:08:49 seems unnecessary 07:09:01 I wonder if zelgadis put in special-casery for >100 speeds 07:09:23 He did the work on splitting monster activity cost into move/swim/attack/fire/etc. 07:09:49 * by goes to git blame 07:09:58 Does Cb do things to monster speeds? 07:10:03 Unnatural things? :P 07:10:31 greensnark: shouldn't; piety is supposed to be off absolute monster speed, so I had to find out how to get at that 07:10:57 Oh, ok 07:11:24 and mon->speed seemed questionable considering these >= 100 checks 07:11:41 greensnark: should it be callboolean(blah, "s") 07:11:43 or "is"? 07:12:06 Ah, just i. 07:12:28 is is because autopickup gives an item as well as a string 07:13:20 Yes, 'i' is the code for item now 07:13:28 Was it pushing a lightuserdata? :) 07:13:33 yeah 07:13:36 But that didn't seem to fix it 07:14:01 You should also add an mprf(MSGCH_ERROR to report errors 07:14:12 That is, after the call, check clua.error.empty() 07:14:15 greensnark: the code is older than stone soup 07:14:16 If not empty, print the error 07:14:25 Good idea, thanks 07:14:37 by: Awesome, it can probably be safely removed :) 07:14:58 by: In scrollback I see you were wondering about the 70 base for speed_increment 07:15:08 That was because b26 handled paralysis by setting speed_increment to 0 :P 07:15:09 due: giant bat -> bat is fine, but probably aren't any of the others. Considering their damage and speed, they really don't even need to be larger than normal bats, even. 07:15:34 and speed_increment used to be unsigned 07:15:35 Twinge: I think the rest will be left for 0.7. 07:15:41 well, 0.7 I guess 07:15:57 by: Yeah, I think I changed it to signed after getting a few bugs with wrap around 07:16:09 If speed increment wraps around, the game pegs CPU until the monster has exhausted its actions 07:16:12 And that takes a while :P 07:16:15 heh 07:16:17 lol 07:16:28 that could make for some nice splats, also 07:16:51 b26 had a lot of horrifying wtf bits of code 07:16:56 due, that swamp ending looks nice 07:16:59 And that was after years of cleanup by the 4.0 team :P 07:17:51 -!- lorimer has quit ["brb"] 07:18:22 by: Actually, if you're doing cleanup, maybe you could rename speed_increment to available_energy or something? 07:19:20 -!- lorimer has joined ##crawl-dev 07:19:26 due: Fair enough; I can see it's spread across 50 bajillion files instead of just 1 like the weight/size tweaks ;) 07:21:13 Why are there so many functions that are confusing multi-line returns with #ifdefs thrown in for good measure? 07:22:16 monster speed cleanup (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=603) by rob 07:22:36 greensnark: Does work, I am an idiot, I don't have clua bindings compile. 07:23:21 ? 07:23:29 CLUA_BINDINGS is set by default now, I think 07:23:34 Oh, is it? Hm. 07:23:39 It has to be explicitly unset if you don't want it 07:23:55 I'm pretty sure it's just an error in the script that's being hidden because errors are nto printed 07:25:10 Ahah 07:25:22 Adding lua_file = "lua/wield.lua" made a difference. 07:25:36 I got a segfault! 07:25:42 (To my .crawlrc) 07:25:52 Yay segfault 07:25:59 Or not yay? 07:26:07 repl:4: '=' expected near 'd' repl:3: ')' expected (to close '(' at line 1) near 'c' repl:1: attempt to call global 'ch_item_wieldable' (a nil value) 07:26:16 Oh, that's not it. 07:26:16 That's not a segfault! 07:26:23 No, I got "INVALID INSTRUCTION" 07:26:31 ?! 07:26:32 Hm. Maybe I give up. 07:26:35 sigill? 07:27:03 Yeah 07:27:18 that sounds like something's been miscompiled 07:27:31 Recompiling and trying it in gdb now. 07:27:44 (Pasted the wrong thing above.) 07:27:55 ah, it seems to work now. 07:28:09 That was weird. 07:28:25 Cosmic rays :P 07:28:31 I'll say. 07:28:41 At least it's not an underground lake filled with chlorine. 07:29:07 bah, if you change your armour while wearing a cloak of ponderousness it costs you a large chunk of CB piety :/ 07:29:25 is there a plan for what's changing with him? 07:29:46 Don't make your cloak ponderous? 07:30:25 that does sound annoying though, does it warn you? 07:30:36 no warning 07:30:52 although there's no warning for taking off any ponderous item, even as a side effect of changing armour 07:31:23 Yeah, messages are kinda important.. 07:31:29 i think a lot of the new gods could use more warnings and prompts 07:31:35 http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=296 :D 07:31:39 MarvinPA: Please file stuff and make lists! 07:31:44 ! 07:31:58 but yes, that is a seperate thing, i'll make a report for that too 07:34:00 03due * r721a4e7bc515 10/crawl-ref/source/invent.cc: Fix reagents not appearing in wield menu. (#602) 07:34:42 I should probably go through and check all Lua function calls. 07:37:20 Prompt when removing ponderous armour as a Cheibriados worshipper (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=604) by MarvintheParanoidAndroid 07:41:07 Keskitalo: I commented again on the baby alligator thing; your thoughts? (If you have time.) 07:42:21 Portal spell prompt missing up/down symbols (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=605) by syllogism 07:43:51 does haste double the duration of... haste 07:44:32 hey dood i put a haste in ur haste so u can haste faster while you haste 07:44:35 (sorry) 07:44:57 due: I'm fine, thanks for the resolution. 07:45:48 Keskitalo: I'm very attached to "baby alligators". I'm currently drawin ga swamp map :) 07:45:53 Er. Sewer map. 07:45:59 Aww! That rocks. 07:46:07 death's door gives you 70+ turns of invulnerability at speed 6 while hasted 07:46:28 is "alligator snapping turtle zombie" a bug, by the way? I couldn't figure out whether it was or not, so I haven't reported it yet 07:46:33 followed by one turn of vulnerability after which you can cast it again 07:46:46 scarf: Not a abug. 07:46:51 of course if you are moving fast the monsters will probably not even get to act 07:46:53 Turtle zombies <3. 07:47:04 someone should do a death's door speed run 07:47:06 scarf: Do you mean the name? Alligator and non-alligator snapping turtles are unrelated species. 07:47:14 it's the name I meant 07:47:17 Ah. 07:47:19 it looks like two names have got merged somehow 07:47:24 It's not :) 07:47:31 alligator snapping turtle is a cousin of the snapping turtle. 07:47:40 @??alligator snapping turtle 07:47:41 alligator snapping turtle (09t) | Speed: 8 (swim: 60%) | HD: 16 | Health: 112-176 | AC/EV: 19/1 | Damage: 50(reach) | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(64) | XP: 1125. 07:47:42 @??snapping turtle 07:47:43 snapping turtle (03t) | Speed: 9 (act: 80%; swim: 60%) | HD: 10 | Health: 30-90 | AC/EV: 16/5 | Damage: 30(reach) | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40) | XP: 281. 07:47:47 unrelated to 07:47:49 @??alligator 07:47:49 alligator (12t) | Speed: 10 (act: 80%; swim: 60%) | HD: 12 | Health: 36-108 | AC/EV: 5/9 | Damage: 30, 15 | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(48) | XP: 1089 | Sp: swiftness. 07:47:55 But the name confusion++. 07:48:00 although that would be a hilarious Xom idea (unfortunately too hard to implement in tiles), "orc newt" or whatever 07:48:31 Keskitalo: Oh, still here? 07:48:37 Keskitalo: Did the rusting drain tile for Sewers go in, btw? 07:49:58 @??baby alligator 07:49:58 baby alligator (02t) | Speed: 12 (swim: 60%) | HD: 7 | Health: 21-56 | AC/EV: 1/11 | Damage: 20 | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 263. 07:55:45 03by 07che * rd6fa61fd5060 10/crawl-ref/source/godconduct.cc: Revert "Make DID_UNPONDEROUS piety cut depend on level." 07:55:48 03by 07che * rfebb03e62a79 10/crawl-ref/source/it_use2.cc: Revert "Don't cut piety for unpondering during prayer." 07:55:51 03by 07che * r025f0d922d75 10/crawl-ref/source/godprayer.cc: Revert "Enable Cheibriados prayer, tracking ponderousness at start and end." 07:55:53 03by 07che * r7500f71d9624 10/crawl-ref/source/ (player.cc player.h): Revert "Optionally count melded armour in player_equip_ego_type." 07:55:56 03by 07che * r962aca832a17 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Revert "Add another grade for piety loss after mere -10 "extremely guilty"." 07:55:57 03by 07che * r4ba7f0d8dacb 10/crawl-ref/source/ (player.cc player.h tags.cc): Revert "Add field player::che_saved_ponderousness." 07:55:59 03by 07che * r98b41f16e0b0 10/crawl-ref/source/godconduct.cc: Revert "Give a message when removing ponderousness as a CB worshipper." 07:56:00 03by 07che * rf3937104d96b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h godconduct.cc it_use2.cc): Revert "Cheibriados piety loss for unequipping ponderous armour." 07:56:04 03by 07che * rba57119f95ec 10/crawl-ref/source/ (tags.cc tags.h): Bump minor version for previous revert. 07:56:37 this would have been a lot less work if people had weighed in re Che earlier 07:57:05 03by 07che * r98aa8c95f48c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-util.cc mon-util.h): Convert mons_is_fast to mons_fastness. 07:57:11 03by 07che * r9ecba229098a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godconduct.cc mon-stuff.cc): Use mons_fastness() to determine Che piety gain. 07:57:42 I like the branch name 07:57:46 Che Guevara 07:58:03 yes 07:58:04 my Che feedback is that I've never managed to get a character who'd like to worship him to the temple 07:58:07 due: Portal tiles need a little code I think? Haven't checked though. 07:59:18 Keskitalo: Need none. 07:59:23 Keskitalo: Can work straight away; shall I put it in? 08:00:28 (All the work has been done. :)) 08:02:07 by: re: 592, there's inconsistency regarding the number of lines between the console and tiles version: tiles shows less than 7 lines if there's not enough space. 08:03:50 It's funny.. with window height set to 600, you get less lines than when it's set to 500; because at 500, the font size is scaled down and more lines fit. 08:03:57 ah 08:04:14 Keskitalo: http://pastebin.ca/1770759 A quick mock-up of what I was intending. 08:04:20 We'll make the font start scaling when we start losing lines. 08:04:23 would setting msg_min_height to 7 with tiles help? 08:04:25 There'll be some more exits along the way, will loot and alligators at the end. 08:04:54 due: Looks cubey and sewery! 08:05:05 due: Can you dig the sewer tile issue for me? 08:05:09 * due doing now. 08:05:21 Might need to add a new Lua wrapper, but it should be okay. 08:05:39 (Might not reset the ... no, it sshould. This is exactly why Enne suggested I do it slightly differently. :D) 08:07:36 Keskitalo: which on did you prefer? 08:08:04 Grate1 or grate2? 08:08:19 by: No effect. 08:08:19 I'll put them botth in, so you can decide. :) 08:08:30 due: Hold on.. 08:09:19 -!- scarf is now known as scarf|away 08:09:37 1: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/file_download.php?file_id=23&type=bug 08:09:37 due: It's too crude to use yet imho. 08:09:41 ah, okay. 08:10:50 -!- scarf|away is now known as scarf 08:11:03 I mightt use one of them as a placeholder anyway to make sure that the code works properly. 08:12:11 Keskitalo: In theory, all that should be neaded is a e.tile("O = sewer_entry") in the sewer_portal() function, after adding the tile to dc-dngn.txt. 08:12:39 The only problem that might exist is whether or not the feature change changes the tile properly... but I see no reason why it shouldn't. 08:32:42 Night folk. 08:34:30 due: Night! 08:38:11 It's not the font size that gets scaled, the whole screen buffer is first drawn in a larger resolution, then scaled down. 08:47:05 03haranp * r5f6162a4a066 10/crawl-ref/source/ (21 files): Nuke a whole lot of old-style casts, and remove some casts completely 08:47:07 03haranp * rfcb892452aa7 10/crawl-ref/source/ (directn.cc godprayer.cc): Change (fix?) gold donation behaviour. 09:03:29 -!- scarf is now known as scarf|away 09:06:08 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 09:10:40 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 09:12:16 03Keskitalo * rba924a0dbde7 10/crawl-ref/ (docs/options_guide.txt source/tilesdl.cc): Make do_layout respect msg_min_height option. Clarify the options_guide entry for it. 09:22:36 greensnark: feel like correcting my overview description here? http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:feedback:speed_randomization 09:23:25 03haranp * rb1084de265d5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (directn.cc directn.h): If a monster is over deep water or laval, mention it in the Aim line. 09:23:29 bhaak, scarf|away: the issues with crawl being really dumb about updating the screen should be pretty much fixed 09:24:32 that said, it still does create larger ttyrecs, just because of the map scrolling (and message area scrolling) stuff 09:26:49 why doesn't *-dir work? 09:29:35 the no_vi_keys thing breaks it 09:37:58 it's seems to be working for me 09:38:09 oh? 09:38:21 do you have no_vi_command_keys.txt included? 09:38:33 oh, no 09:38:53 how do i add that? does that stop the crazyness with the f keys? 09:39:28 hjklyubn disappear 09:39:42 include = no_vi_command_keys.txt in your init 09:39:47 cool 09:40:00 (but it breaks *-dir) 09:47:54 no_vi_command_keys.txt breaks *-dir (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=606) by TGW 09:52:19 -!- scarf|away is now known as scarf 09:52:55 allow transformations through cursed equipment (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=607) by TGW 09:53:45 i thought some transformations did 09:54:01 some do 09:54:03 like, vampires can't go batform with cursed equipment when they first get it 09:54:05 the more powerful ones do 09:54:09 then they level up a bit and they can 09:54:10 hmm 09:54:20 but "powerful" isn't really well defined 09:55:48 maybe all transformations could have a chance of failing if it needs to meld cursed equipment, depending on tmut skill 09:55:53 The question is: do you want a cheap transformation to allow you to recklessly try all armours. (A: no!) 09:56:05 MarvinPA: chances won't help 09:56:10 ah yeah, good point 09:56:14 dpegwork: but would it do that? 09:56:28 aah actually yeah, it wouldn't let you unwield it surely 09:56:38 now that we have melding 09:56:44 when you transform back it unmelds 09:56:49 and you can unwield melded stuff 09:56:51 can't* 09:57:12 doy: let me rephrase: "try armours recklessly without effect on your forms" 09:57:57 require confirmation for aborting scroll prompts (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=608) by TGW 09:58:15 dpegwork: i don't think that's much of an issue 09:58:19 i guess it only really affects transmuters wanting to use spider form, and low level vampires wanting to use bat form? 09:58:29 i think it affects ice form too 10:00:31 dpeg: you mean the armour that you're *not using?* 10:00:51 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:52 if you're fighting primarily with forms, you don't generally care about good armour either 10:01:15 sorear, you there mate? 10:01:15 Cryp71c: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:01:19 !messages 10:01:19 (1/1) sorear said (9h 23m 32s ago): No, it can go in. 10:01:29 what can go in? 10:01:45 TGWi, my -Blink -Tele as DS Mutation patch 10:01:48 Mutations* 10:02:02 you mean removing those mutations? 10:02:07 Yes 10:02:09 ok 10:02:28 +MP is also being discussed too, or it was last I heard. 10:02:49 Cryp71c: what happened to your nick? 10:03:11 dpegwork, I left IRC on at work under 'Cryptic' but apparently the real owner has come back to IRC 10:03:16 He ghosted me out of it sometime yesterday 10:03:31 -_- 10:03:49 -!- scarf is now known as scarf|away 10:04:17 :/ 10:04:21 -!- dpegwork has quit ["leaving"] 10:04:34 ...nooo! was typing up a message to him. 10:05:28 03dolorous * r7ad2e159d5f5 10/crawl-ref/source/ouch.cc: Switch ouch.cc to C++-style includes. 10:05:30 03dolorous * r2361941a8cb8 10/crawl-ref/source/ (ouch.cc stuff.cc stuff.h): Remove integer_sqrt() and replace it with sqrt(). 10:05:55 doy: Let me take a look 10:05:59 i'm curious what "C++-style includes" means 10:06:12 #include 10:06:17 vs #include 10:06:26 ah 10:06:28 who does that 10:06:37 I wanted to talk to you guys about cross-facet mutations, or certain mutation lines interacting together with DS (although I know the DS changes aren't makng it 10:06:43 Some C++ shops are crazy about such things :P 10:07:17 For instance: I once almost flubbed an interview because I did using namespace std; for one of the programming questions 10:07:19 today's my last day at a c++ shop! 10:07:30 greensnark: that would flub an interview? 10:07:37 Apparently the interviewer had a deep seated hatred for using namespaces, even in examples 10:07:39 some people 10:08:05 doy: Well, it also didn't help that I'd sneered at design patterns a few minutes before that :P 10:08:10 haha 10:12:16 doy: okay, so realtime updating separate from player interaction, please ;-) 10:12:27 bhaak: hmm? 10:13:09 -!- scarf|away is now known as scarf 10:13:33 doy: animation is dependent on player pressing keys instead of real animation and one argument against it was ttyrec would get even larger :) 10:13:43 how do I help test the new speed-randomisation code? 10:13:49 well, yes, that's a separate issue 10:14:08 scarf: play trunk builds? 10:14:16 doy: ah, is it in trunk mainline? 10:14:19 scarf: yes 10:14:19 I'll just pull and recompile, then 10:14:36 bhaak: realtime animation would still make for ridiculous ttyrecs 10:14:55 hopefully there'll be decent results on its earlygame effects next time I suffer from a bout of procrastination 10:15:29 there's also the issue that crawl's main loop is still just a getch() loop, pretty much, it would have to be redone to do some kind of busy waiting 10:15:41 which would probably be annoying 10:15:59 didn't branch the latest speed tweaks 10:16:02 doy: halfdelay if you can get away with it 10:16:05 err didn't rob 10:16:17 although I'm not sure if it's available on all platforms, so it might be unusable 10:16:28 doy: yes, I know. nethack's main loop for tty is the same. But I was looking into it for interpreting mouse clicks through telnet and it would be possible without a lot of annoying coding 10:17:36 scarf: something like select(2) should be available on all platforms 10:17:36 syllogism: he branched to mess around with some different variants 10:17:45 but the original change is still in master 10:17:47 what do you guys think about mutations (or modifications to the standard mutations) which only happen if two facets are present? Eg, you have a certain set of scales and you also have the fire facet, so at scales 3 instead of getting the bonus AC, you remain at the Scales 2 AC bonus and also get rF+, or perhaps get a 'firey envelope' (fire dmg return) 10:17:55 bhaak: yes, but that doesn't interrupt on keypresses 10:18:01 like halfdelay does 10:18:15 scarf: it does 10:18:32 scarf: if you do the select on stdin 10:18:50 scarf: how would it not interrupt on keypresses 10:18:54 that's the whole point of select 10:19:00 doy: it interrupts on data on a stream 10:19:09 scarf: and stdin is a stream 10:19:15 exactly 10:19:16 my brain managed to disconnect the keyboard from stdin, somehow 10:19:19 I've been teaching too much java 10:19:22 (: 10:19:31 look, I have to have a day job somehow 10:19:59 even in java is System.in a stream :) 10:20:31 bhaak: yes, but it's rare to use it for input 10:20:51 and you certainly wouldn't typically expect it to be connected to the keyboard 10:21:12 the main thing i remember from my java class in college was that dealing with stdin/out/err was a complete pain 10:21:32 scarf: you shouldn't expect it to be, but on which OS isn't it? (besides mobile phones?) 10:21:56 bhaak: any OS which line-buffers stdin by default, or that typically starts programs from a GUI 10:21:58 which is all of them 10:22:17 stdin doesn't react to keypresses other than newline and control-D by default 10:22:19 doy: stdin/out/err works okay, as long as you stay on a "per line" basis, anything else like curses is a horror 10:22:22 and then it gives you the whole line at once 10:22:41 changing that setting used to be a mess, it's one of the reasons curses was written i think 10:22:43 *I think 10:22:46 and likewise, termcap/termlib 10:23:21 scarf: right, that's correct 10:23:39 -!- murphy_slaw_ has quit [] 10:23:50 so I suppose you'd have to port curses to Java, and why would anyone want to do that? 10:24:13 well 10:24:18 to whom do I complain about {was cursed}? 10:24:22 at this point those interfaces are a lot more standardized 10:24:25 TGWi: the tracker 10:25:31 doy: heh, the funny thing is that nowadays you can assume all the world's a VT102 10:25:43 and yet, that terminal's been obsolete for decades 10:30:59 What's the line for compiling from git again? make something something? 10:31:19 less make 10:31:20 just 'make' 10:31:28 or 'make wizard' if you want wizmode 10:31:29 shows you all the options on the first lines 10:32:03 felirx: you mean "less makefile" 10:32:09 -!- SiberSchool has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:12 tabfill :( 10:32:33 heh, you try to tab-complete ordinary hard-to-spell words on IRC too? 10:32:55 everything! 10:33:35 Hmm. "sh.exe": make: command not found" 10:33:57 probably install make 10:34:04 Twinge: which OS are you on? 10:34:10 Cygwin? 10:34:11 WinXP 10:34:12 but really, if you don't have make, you likely don't have gcc, etc 10:34:25 you'll need to go find and install Crawl's build dependencies 10:34:32 Well I've done this before using make, so this seems odd :P 10:34:33 msysgit's netinstall is the easiest way to get it to compile 10:35:08 Must've been from the OTHER Git I guess. 10:35:12 doy: Updated now 10:35:17 greensnark: thanks 10:35:17 (: 10:36:45 Yeah I guess that was it. Forgot that there were 2 Gits here :P 10:36:51 -!- ogaz has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]"] 10:38:51 We should eventually move to a unified energy system for players and monsters 10:38:56 yes 10:39:01 It won't even be very hard now 10:39:05 Maybe 0.7 :) 10:39:24 a time system that's independent of the player's speed would be great 10:39:24 (: 10:39:29 Yeah 10:39:44 player_speed * monster_speed / 10 causes no end of rounding fun :P 10:40:12 should start a 0.7 todo list on the wiki 10:44:35 ##c-ot discussion suggests that we need alligator leather armour 10:45:20 polymorphing an alligator corpse should give alligator-skin boots! 10:45:22 um, i mean 10:45:40 you mean enchanting 10:45:50 you've been watching too many NetHack speedruns, obviously 10:46:33 Can we have alligator sandwiches as food items? 10:46:38 They could be snappy 10:46:42 speaking of, should check and see how maud's been doing lately 10:47:04 doy: 2495 turns 10:47:06 -!- Siber has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:47:07 baby alligator sandwiches 10:47:08 the 2500 barrier has been broken 10:47:11 yeah, saw that one 10:47:27 I doubt that one will be beaten for a while, not even by Maud himself 10:47:41 looks like nothing of note since then 10:48:37 2500 turns of what? 10:48:57 elly: turns to win NetHack 10:49:07 Maud ascended with a turn count of 2495 10:49:11 hey guys, just a heads-upautoexplore 10:49:17 autoexplore kills you with ice form 10:49:29 oh, because it explores into water and then times out? 10:49:31 TGWi: to the tracker! 10:49:31 yes 10:49:49 can I call that major? 10:49:53 TGWi: yes 10:49:54 as in "majorly pisses me off?" 10:49:55 cool 10:49:56 ah, nice 10:50:13 autoexplore should never kill you (directly anyway) 10:50:13 (: 10:50:48 levitation uses your natural "can swim" state for determining autoexplore, transformations should probably use that too 10:52:36 Would anyone else go along with the idea of a more tree-like structure for mutations, or is that just me? 10:53:13 Ice form autoexplores into water (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=609) by TGW 10:53:15 Cryp71c: ds mutation structure has been discussed to death, add your ideas to the wiki if you want them considered 10:53:30 mmm 11:06:16 -!- MarvinPA has quit [] 11:07:06 !lg syllogism 11:07:07 2757. syllogism the Farming Englaciator (L1 HEIE), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, escaped with the Orb!. on 2010-01-28, with 250008 points after 209486 turns and 21:26:39. 11:07:14 !lg syllogism -tv 11:07:14 2757. syllogism, XL1 HEIE, T:209486 requested for FooTV. 11:08:54 syllogism: so, planning on submitting that bug? 11:08:55 d: 11:10:42 ??score 11:10:44 new score[1/2]: [your gold + modified xp + value of inventory (winners only) + 1000*(different runes + 2)^2 (winners only) + (250,000 * different runes)*(25,000/(turns/different runes)) (winners only)] 11:10:57 ??score[2] 11:10:57 new score[2/2]: modified xp = 0.7* xp up to 250,000 + 0.4* xp between 250,000 and 1M + 0.2* xp between 1M and 3M + 0.1* xp above 3M 11:11:22 also, where did that extra 8 points come from 11:12:35 i didn't drain all the xp 11:13:12 ah 11:14:48 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:53 runes and the orb are sacrificable (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=610) by doy 11:24:57 demonic runes are worth 10,000 and count towards deck of dungeons... 11:25:27 on the way up, sacrificing runes would make sense if you were a nemelexite 11:25:29 hmmm 11:25:31 after all, you don't need them any more 11:25:44 for comparison a book of annihilations is worth 1,150 11:25:59 and regular books 300ish 11:26:05 I think crawlians like hauling runes to the top 11:26:08 i suppose that's reasonable, in a twisted kind of way 11:26:14 certainly not the orb though 11:26:15 it also prompts you several times 11:26:30 Adeon: as opposed to the NetHack tactic of abandoning the invocation artifacts on the vibrating square, even though they're actually useful? 11:26:42 hmm, seems like strange behaviour from Crawl players 11:26:53 Adeon: crawl only tracks the runes that you bring up with you 11:26:57 you get points for them 11:27:00 -!- Zaba_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:01 so if you want to get credit for a 15-rune win 11:27:02 you have to 11:27:13 yes, but that's like talking about conducts in nethack 11:27:20 a basic win is what people "should" be aiming for on some level 11:27:24 also, they're the main component of score 11:27:28 and really, a 0-rune win isn't that much less impressive than a 3-rune win 11:27:39 and score is actually reasonably meaningful in crawl 11:27:43 and at least, startscummed abyssal runes have basically no effect on score 11:27:51 I know that one from experience 11:27:55 well 11:28:03 they only count towards score if you win 11:28:05 ??score 11:28:05 new score[1/2]: [your gold + modified xp + value of inventory (winners only) + 1000*(different runes + 2)^2 (winners only) + (250,000 * different runes)*(25,000/(turns/different runes)) (winners only)] 11:28:31 score for non-winners is just gold + xp 11:28:33 i think if you leave you get half of the value of inventory? or was that changed 11:28:41 ??old score 11:28:42 old score[1/1]: [your gold + ((your experience * 7) / 10) + value of inventory, only if you won + (number of different runes^2 * 1000, only if you won)] or 99,999,999, whatever is less (THIS ONLY APPLIES <= 0.3.4) 11:29:05 shrug 11:29:40 heh, so in NetHack, score's only meaningful if you lose, in Crawl, it's only meaningful if you win? 11:29:59 it's meaningful in crawl if you don't win too 11:30:11 in the same sense as nethack 11:30:29 what's that same sense? 11:30:42 doy: losing score if you buy things, where gold has no other use? 11:30:48 and XP is mostly determined by luck early on 11:30:49 in nethack score is only meaningful until you *could* win 11:30:52 a measure of progress to compare non-winning games against each other 11:31:00 if you get a nice powerful ghost or unique, you get loads of exp 11:31:31 no one cares about xl<15 scores really 11:31:36 it averages out eventually 11:31:40 yeah 11:32:27 hmm, this channel seems to really hate the early game 11:32:33 not at all 11:32:39 what? 11:32:45 I only know the early game :-( 11:33:49 03by 07che * raef256462711 10/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Call armour_wear_effects after ponderifying equipped armour. 11:33:51 03by 07che * re30f19e90142 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files): Make Che support the use of ponderous armour per dpeg's design. 11:33:59 my experience with new Crawl players (both myself and other people I've introduced) is that the early game tends to be deadly (for some classes) or really boring (For others) 11:34:41 this is, as in, before-temple early game 11:34:57 and even though I'm better now than I was, it still takes half an hour or so to reach temple, with mostly formulaic play 11:34:58 we've been trying quite a bit to make it more interesting 11:35:14 which reminds me, I've never seen Dowan and Duvessa together 11:35:19 nearly always, I've killed them separately 11:35:24 scarf: being a plaything of Xom is fun even if you have no clue what's going on 11:35:25 yeah 11:35:36 they need some ai logic to try to stick together 11:35:39 bhaak: not really, I find it less fun than the other gods in fact 11:35:41 same with pikel and his slaves 11:35:46 -!- lorimer has quit ["testing, brb"] 11:35:54 scarf: You don't know from fun! 11:35:59 -!- lorimer has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36:03 it's just a whole load of arbitrary events 11:36:12 If your game is too formulatic, insert Xom. Easy! 11:36:20 Twinge: the issue is, the game is /still/ formulaic 11:36:26 just with a higher chance of dying arbitrarily 11:36:34 normally from the lack of a god that's actually usable tactically 11:36:55 (Xom's rather uncontrollable, so although he helps, there's no tactics involved in using him; you just have to take him as he is) 11:37:18 xom at least tries to be tactically interesting now 11:37:24 used to be a lot more random 11:37:37 -!- Zaba has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:37:50 doy: it's rather like watching a fight between two monsters, though 11:37:50 Shrug. I don't find the early game that formulatic myself. The early mid-game is more formulatic to me 11:38:01 ok, xom's one of the monsters and he's using you as his weapon 11:38:05 * doy agrees with Twinge 11:38:07 but it's still a rather passive role to take 11:38:35 scarf: what do you think would make xom better? 11:38:50 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:09 doy: better in terms of gameplay would be if there was some more direct way to influence how he acts 11:39:12 but that really screws up the flavour 11:39:17 meh 11:39:18 yeah 11:39:25 plenty of other gods to pick if you want that 11:39:30 !log syllogism god=xom ktyp!=winning max=sc 11:39:31 124. syllogism, XL27 NaFi, T:199310: Can't locate remote morgues with v<0.4 11:39:32 (I rather like the suggestion that xom should respond to scrolls of random uselessness...) 11:39:41 !log syllogism god=xom ktyp!=winning place=abyss 11:39:41 1. syllogism, XL27 DSTm, T:598022: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/syllogism/morgue-syllogism-20080709-213525.txt 11:40:04 can't manipulate him like that anymore though :P 11:40:11 wow at those mutations 11:40:33 yeah, xom used to be ridiculous about mutations 11:40:37 AC 76, EV 35 11:40:43 was a bug that meant you never actually lost any 11:41:12 I suppose the question is, how did you contrive to die with stats like that? 11:41:18 also a sort-of bug in that scale mutations weren't exclusive 11:41:20 suicide 11:41:30 doy: I think it might be good to make it slightly more likely overall for him to help you out and slightly less likely for him to screw you. I'd kind of like to see him considered a little more for a god choice in comparison to the others instead of a joke/challenge god exclusively. Not a big concern though. 11:41:44 syllogism: why? suiciding to avoid an illegitimate win? 11:41:57 (that looks like a screwed-up passwall, which I suppose is a reasonable way to suicide) 11:41:58 well I guess and I found that death message more interesting 11:42:19 and it was fitting given the ac mutations 11:42:20 makes it easier to search for games later too 11:42:21 (: 11:42:25 can't really move around with +64 worth of ac :P 11:53:24 -!- gal_bolle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:52 03by 07che * r3ebfe9c7dea7 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Give Che piety for monsters with hasty spells. 11:53:54 03by 07che * rf6f5b63df26d 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Che messages for gaining/losing ponderous support at *. 11:53:56 03by 07che * r3f1595aa4e9d 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-you.cc: Change wizard_set_piety to use lose/gain_piety. 11:57:31 -!- Twinge- has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:18 -!- Twinge_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:47 -!- Twinge-- has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:00 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:15:09 03by 07che * r042abbcf039c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h food.cc godconduct.cc): Che gives piety for eating perma-food when full. 12:17:14 03by 07che * r929bb7055a47 10/crawl-ref/ (28 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into che 12:18:23 -!- Twinge- has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:21:28 -!- scarf has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:24:53 -!- by has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:24:56 -!- by_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:12 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:30:11 Twinge--, lol how many accounts can Twinge get!? 12:30:37 how difficult to type can your one name get? 12:31:24 -!- by_ is now known as by 12:33:01 Someone should commit my 'Remove blink / teleport patch' to trunk. I'm tired of getting them as muts :P 12:34:13 there are already too few mutations 12:34:20 DS mutations 12:34:38 blink is pretty terrible 12:34:53 syllogism, idk, its been agreed that it was to be removed. 12:34:54 we should make a decision about what state we want to leave ds in for 0.6 12:35:06 yes, once other mutations are added 12:35:16 if DS overhaul isn't going to be finished for 0.6, like seems to be the case, those shouldn't be removed 12:35:40 doy, I would like to see the DS overhaul go into .6 but that just may not be feasible. 12:36:08 as* 12:36:24 yeah, we'd need someone to actually take on the project, and we're kinda running low on time 12:36:33 !tell dpeg Che is in master, with stat boosts and resists for ponderous armour, new piety mechanism (piety for faster-than-average monsters and eating perma-food when full) 12:36:33 by: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 12:36:35 really don't want to delay 0.6 any further 12:37:07 !tell dpeg dat/descript/gods.txt needs updating by someone who writes text. 12:37:08 by: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 12:38:50 anyone know where piety decay is handled? 12:39:07 religion.cc i think 12:39:39 that doesn't really help :) 12:39:45 handle_god_time 12:39:59 thanks! 12:41:20 I wonder, does 14 v 16 v 17 for the one_chance_in(x) to lose piety really make a difference? 12:41:37 not much, but it's called once every 20 turns 12:45:12 I guess it's good flavour if Che doesn't urge you to hurry by decaying piety... 12:45:40 plus moving slow increases decay 12:46:19 but it should decay fast enough that waiting for fast respawns doesn't allow farming piety 12:46:34 you get so few respawns now it doesn't matter much 12:46:58 alright, I'll leave it at constant then for now 12:50:48 -!- Timbermaw has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:13 Certainly not much decay. Sif level might be fine 12:51:24 -!- Phil_Bordelon has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:35 -!- Phil_Bordelon has left ##crawl-dev 12:54:27 Er, should an immobile statue be allowed to be under 'Wandering' status? 12:55:16 no 12:55:18 which statue? 12:56:05 The special vault-made one, so it's not surprising that it's an exception - archer statue 12:56:20 @?? statue 12:56:21 statue (158) | Speed: 10 | HD: 8 | Health: 70 | AC/EV: 12/1 | Damage: 20 | Flags: 11non-living | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 561. 12:56:58 Twinge--: file a bug! 12:59:53 k 13:01:48 bleh, +R prevents me from even fixing my name, hah 13:04:19 Archer Statue can have 'Wandering' status (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=611) by Twinge 13:07:44 -!- Siber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:20 Using new "x" clears message window (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=612) by Napkin 13:14:25 we need an option to autotoggle certain skills 13:14:34 that would be such a good thing 13:14:52 so I could lua it and skip using m 13:23:56 -!- TGWi has left ##crawl-dev 13:24:24 Option to start with a skill off (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=613) by TGW 13:24:32 -!- SiberSchool has quit [Connection timed out] 13:30:26 -!- felirx has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:51:43 -!- Giomancer has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:53:34 -!- Twinge-- is now known as Twinge 14:06:25 hi, i think i have a bug. the game displays a shop that doesn't exist 14:08:45 -!- felirx has joined ##crawl-dev 14:09:22 Timbermaw, it displays the bug in ctrl + o or actually on your map? 14:14:12 -!- felirx has quit ["leaving"] 14:15:40 -!- felirx has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:29 oh, ctrl o 14:17:03 and in the map there's a greyed /, next to the stair and traps found count 14:17:17 and it's also not a bazaar 14:17:31 Timbermaw: is this on cdo? 14:17:39 no, local 0.6 14:17:54 maybe it was a portal vault, how early is this 14:17:58 can you file a bug and upload the save? 14:18:07 sure 14:18:10 it's in lair 2 14:18:19 same level as the fedhas shrine, if it means anything 14:18:29 i'll file a bug 14:28:29 -!- Twinge-- has joined ##crawl-dev 14:34:44 Shop is displayed but does not exist (save attached) (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=614) by Timbermaw 14:35:09 neat 14:37:08 Timbermaw: hmm, is there just that one .sav file? doesn't windows crawl create a .zip? 14:38:08 oh, and have you checked if it's under a plant, maybe? 14:38:41 no zip, just a bunch of files 14:38:51 if it's under a plant the plant would have a background right? 14:39:57 indeed 14:40:04 found it :S 14:40:14 =p 14:40:17 it should be branded 14:40:32 yeah, it was branded 14:40:34 darn 14:40:51 there's a bug that a monster on a feature will overwrite the colour in the feature line at the top 14:41:27 on the map view? 14:41:40 yes; that would probably explain your grey \ 14:42:13 ideally, travel would take you next to it 14:42:15 yeah, the plant that was above it is green tho 14:42:29 but it's not green on the level map 14:43:17 right xD, but yeah! if your character would move next to the place where the shop is... 14:43:25 would be terrific 14:44:27 since when we use autoexplore we have no idea where it could be exactly 14:45:36 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:45:41 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 14:47:20 by the way, can i close the report myself? 14:47:34 try? I should think so 14:48:23 i dunno how to.. i can change the status to acknowledge or feedback 14:49:09 maybe you can't 14:49:25 You can't 14:49:30 I've tried to on a number of times 14:49:56 okay 14:50:07 closed 14:50:34 by, do you have any opinions on DS as they are in trunk? I've heard some say there aren't enough mutations to warrant taking out some that are scheduled for removal and such. 14:50:35 thanks 14:50:48 Cryp71c: no opinions, no 14:51:19 Cryp71c: this is the case, yes 14:51:55 however it is only the case because (last time I checked in) there were very few new implemented mutations 14:52:07 there are many more that are in various stages of design but not implemented 14:52:45 we need people to come up with new mutation ideas, design those mutation ideas into actual playable mutations, and implement those mutations in the current scheme 14:55:24 -!- Twinge-- has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:24:43 -!- Twinge-- has joined ##crawl-dev 15:29:20 Cryp71c: Hi! 15:32:14 -!- by has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:33:51 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 15:34:02 cheers 15:34:02 dpeg: You have 6 messages. Use !messages to read them. 15:34:06 aha 15:34:08 !messages 15:34:08 (1/6) due said (7h 40m 26s ago): Six uniques on Orc:3. What needs to be done to chances after placing a unique? 15:34:18 !messages 15:34:18 (1/5) syllogism said (7h 37m 7s ago): Eight. 15:34:36 Hm, what will be next? Be my guest, and guess the number! 15:35:17 Nine? 15:35:29 Twenty-seven? 15:36:06 * dpeg gives sorear our specially selected grand prize! 15:36:08 !messages 15:36:15 (1/4) syllogism said (7h 38m 47s ago): Nine. 15:36:19 :) 15:36:26 !messages 15:36:26 (1/3) hayenne said (7h 37m 21s ago): ten 15:36:44 I am fond of our players. They can count! 15:36:53 That's unheard of in modern video gaming. 15:37:07 !messages 15:37:07 (1/2) by said (3h 34s ago): Che is in master, with stat boosts and resists for ponderous armour, new piety mechanism (piety for faster-than-average monsters and eating perma-food when full) 15:37:15 !seen by 15:37:15 I last saw by at Fri Jan 29 21:32:14 2010 UTC (5m 1s ago) quitting with message "Lost terminal". 15:37:22 damn, missed him :( 15:37:27 !messages 15:37:27 (1/1) by said (3h 19s ago): dat/descript/gods.txt needs updating by someone who writes text. 15:37:56 Well, none of our players and only very few developers are literate. We're happy they can count! 15:41:02 Can someone confirm whether Che is in his own branch or in master? 15:41:38 in master 15:41:39 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:42:11 doy: Great. I am asking because there was a dedicated Che branch, right? 15:42:36 i thought that was just created yesterday for by to work in 15:42:41 and then he merged it today 15:42:41 okay 16:36:43 hrm, did I d/c? 16:37:34 It would seem not... 16:38:17 dpeg, I've heard some talk, I was curious to find out what the word was on the DS conditions and .6? Are the DS changes being rolled back to how they were in .5 for .6 ? 16:38:56 dpeg: If it's relevant, In testing I got 5 or more uniques (even counting e.g. Duv+Do as just one) spawning on the same level slightly more than once every 2 games on only a D:1-D:27 dive (no branches) when I was looking at it maybe 3 or 4 weeks ago 16:39:01 -!- Twinge-- is now known as Twinge 16:39:52 should get greensnark to run some unique generation tests this weekend 16:41:38 When I first stareting noticing it, I think I remember due saying like "well as long as they aren't spawning that many together every other game or something its fine", and then I did some 15 od dtests and they were ;) 16:42:39 Cryp71c: new DS will not be finished for 0.6. Not clear what will happen. 16:43:10 Twinge: yes, unique overload we're aware of. Happens to us, too. 16:43:32 one thing that might help is to make the chances of unique placement not dependent on the number of remaining maps 16:43:35 just make it a fixed chance 16:43:44 and if there aren't any left, just bail out 16:43:48 dpeg, I see. Well I was going to run it by people...I'll probably stick it in the Wiki for discussion, but had thought about there being a chance for two separate facets - when both are present on a DS - to interact together to form slightly different lvl 3 muts of one of the involved facets. 16:44:03 But ofc, I'll stick the whole idea on wiki when I have a moment. 16:44:15 Cryp71c: it's a lot of code though... 16:45:19 dpeg, yeah I thought about that too..IDK of its feasibility, 16:47:01 Cryp71c: have to get the primary facets right before thinking of secondary features like this, imo. That doesn't mean that you should stop thinking about it :) 16:54:07 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:31 dpeg, what facets are unimplemented from the DS brainstorm site 17:09:17 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 17:09:21 Cryp71c: many 17:09:53 We should not try to squeeze DS into 0.6. sorear will be around to do DS later, so there's no hurry. 17:12:08 dpeg: did you talk to jpeg? she seems to feel that ds, noise, and div should be finished for 0.6, since we started them 17:13:03 yes, I am trying to reach her 17:13:22 will talk to her 17:13:39 DS: a 0.6.1 goal? ;) 17:13:41 okay 17:15:25 -!- Anym has joined ##crawl-dev 17:52:53 -!- Timbermaw_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:53:26 hi 17:53:33 hey 17:53:41 playtesting time :o 17:54:18 dpeg: Should an extra one_chance_in(3) of breaking out of the unique placement loop after we've successfully placed a unique suffice? 17:54:31 meh 17:54:49 Hi! 17:55:09 due: yes. Wouldn't that just mean changing one of our two numbers? 17:55:40 No. 17:55:42 -!- Cryp71c has quit [] 17:56:07 the more i think about it, the more i like placing all uniques at game start, really 17:56:19 doy: I'm for that, too. 17:56:43 doy: yes, that would help 17:57:01 due: well, one of our numbers did allow to modify chances for subsequent uniques?! 17:57:04 But that is 0.7 17:57:08 dpeg: Nope, none of them. 17:57:14 does that mean that they wouldn't be able to placed in vaults? 17:57:15 A is the initial chance of placing a unique. 17:57:30 ogaz: No, nothing lke that. 17:57:39 adding in more chances at random points to tweak around distribution based on (admittedly strong) anecdotal evidence just seems like it would lead in the wrong direction 17:57:56 if we want them to be evenly distributed, then we should just do that directly 17:57:59 B is the chance of placing a unique if there are a low number of uniques already on the level. 17:58:07 doy: well, we have two parameters but I forgot what they did :) 17:58:16 one_chance_in(A) of staying in the loop 17:58:25 due: what is A right now? 17:58:28 2 17:58:31 It was 3 17:58:41 But when it was 3, people complained that there weren't enough uniques. 17:58:44 with 3, it barely generated any uniques 17:58:46 ah, so having 8 uniques on your level is 1/128 17:58:58 which will happen easily, given the hundreds of games played 17:59:02 and B is 5 17:59:24 And it's num_uniques_available chances in 5 of continuing to place uniuqes. 17:59:32 yes 17:59:50 due: setting A=3 should improve matters 17:59:55 hmmm, hold on... 18:00:02 <+doy> with 3, it barely generated any uniques 18:00:06 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:12 3 is too highand 2 is too low :) 18:00:23 What about 2 chances in 7 instead of one chance in 3? 18:00:53 ah, never mind 18:00:56 due: well, we could replace the current 1/A by A/100 18:01:05 due: how about just evenly distributing uniques over their possible levels at game start? 18:01:08 d: 18:01:19 doy: Then you'd get 1 or 2 uniques per level. 18:01:25 It still needs to b a random distribution of uniques. 18:01:28 -!- Twinge-- has joined ##crawl-dev 18:01:33 yes 18:01:37 due: what? 18:01:49 it would be a random distribution 18:01:57 i didn't mean 'evenly' like that 18:02:00 Okay 18:02:07 So we still need a good formula 18:02:11 Otherwise we'll get clumping :) 18:02:12 i just mean, for each unique, place it at a random depth 18:02:18 that's valid for that unique 18:02:38 Hm. 18:02:47 due: we don't want all uniques in every game 18:02:48 There still needs to be a chance of failure. 18:02:52 sure 18:02:53 We don't want all uniques. 18:03:04 pick random number of uniques to do this for 18:03:40 -!- xesis has joined ##crawl-dev 18:03:52 alternatively, do this for each unique, and then remove placed uniques in such a way as to reduce clumping 18:03:56 -!- xesis has quit [Client Quit] 18:04:16 doy: there should be an easier solution 18:04:19 dpeg: Ar eyou happy to just not get "was cursed" if an item is fully identified? 18:04:32 for example, we could have a penalty for each additional unique 18:04:35 dpeg: i don't see this solution as being particularly hard 18:04:43 due: yes, of course 18:04:47 doy: It means rewriting the interface for 0.6. 18:04:54 "pick a random group of uniques" "for each unique, pick a random place for it" 18:04:55 doy: something different: did you talk to Charles? 18:04:57 that's it 18:05:05 dpeg: ah, forgot... i've been kinda busy 18:05:07 dpeg: "only if you didn't see it get cursed" = rather painful. 18:05:10 i'll do it this weekend 18:05:13 thanks 18:06:01 Nuke a whole lot of old-style casts, and remove some casts completely 18:06:01 (you don't need to cast an X* to a void* and you don't need to cast 18:06:02 due: the interface isn't that complicated to begin with 18:06:02 arguments to math.h functions such as sqrt.) 18:06:19 Wasn't one of the casts for sqrt required because it was breaking MSVC? 18:06:34 not a clue 18:06:58 can wait for msvc people to complain, i guess 18:07:21 heh 18:07:44 (for what it's worth, i don't really see the benefit in c++-style casts in general, but meh) 18:07:52 When are we branching? 18:08:23 -!- Timbermaw has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:10:36 I have no idea! 18:11:00 It needs to be soon! 18:11:09 "needs to be"? 18:11:47 Doesnt' it? 18:12:06 I suppose not. 18:15:39 Unnecessary --more-- when passing over a stack of items. (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=615) by LordSloth 18:16:14 -!- Cryp71c has quit ["leaving"] 18:18:12 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:19:43 Might need to delay the playtesting post until tomorrow. 18:21:23 -!- Timbermaw_ is now known as Timbermaw 18:24:04 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 18:24:09 hey dev 18:24:27 Hi! 18:24:37 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 18:25:19 hi 18:26:27 me? 18:26:37 yes, hi TGWi. 18:26:48 hi due! 18:26:51 I see we have a branch honouring Che Guevara! 18:26:58 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 18:27:02 Che Branch? 18:27:20 purge! <# 18:27:23 reading the logs, you seem to have meant bmh :[ 18:27:23 yes! 18:27:34 TGWi: No, I meant hi to everyone that had just joined. 18:27:35 TWGi: Nah, due doesn't like me ;-) 18:27:36 due! :D 18:27:42 purge, did you ever do another version of the sewer grate? 18:28:14 negative. I take it your implementing unique portal gates now? :) 18:28:38 I was going to see if it worked and Eino said you were still working on it :o 18:28:54 definately the current submission needs work 18:29:21 I'll take a look at it 18:29:33 re: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=593 Can I get a tip with regards to where I can find this code? 18:29:54 stash.cc most likely. 18:30:17 I presume this bug goes beyond using an unstable sort function 18:31:35 Yes. 18:35:56 dpeg: What is our official release date that we're working towards? 18:36:10 -!- TGWi was kicked from ##crawl-dev by dpeg [dpeg] 18:36:17 March 1 18:36:35 Okay. 18:36:46 -!- TGWi has joined ##crawl-dev 18:37:01 I don't think giving naga's orb of destruction is a good idea. 18:37:12 what do you suggest? 18:38:03 @???greater naga 18:38:04 greater naga (04N) | Speed: 8 (act: 80%) | HD: 15 | Health: 45-120 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Damage: 27 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 1576 | Sp: b.venom, mystic blast, haste, poison arrow, teleport other, teleport self. 18:38:14 Give them another copy of poison arrow. 18:38:18 They're already quite buff as it is. 18:41:12 do monsters have ood yet? it seems fun 18:41:56 There's a statue vault with it. 18:44:19 @?? vampire mage 18:44:19 vampire mage (06V) | Speed: 10 | HD: 8 | Health: 24-56 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Damage: 7, 1505(vampiric) | Flags: 07undead, evil, spellcaster, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(64), 02cold, 03poison | XP: 631 | Sp: b.draining, summon undead, invisibility, animate dead, teleport self. 18:44:26 @??naga mage 18:44:26 naga mage (05N) | Speed: 8 (act: 80%) | HD: 7 | Health: 21-56 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Damage: 17 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(56), 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 353 | Sp: b.venom, mystic blast, haste, poison arrow, teleport other, teleport self. 18:44:41 could replace imb on magi? 18:44:47 TGWi: what??? 18:44:50 snake is plenty easy and more iood is a good thing 18:44:51 are you kidding? 18:45:00 heh 18:45:01 I don't know, am I? 18:45:04 Yes, you are. 18:45:07 o 18:45:08 that would be a bit extreme, probably 18:45:11 ok* 18:47:00 -!- Mu_ has quit ["Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place."] 18:52:30 -!- timecircuits has left ##crawl-dev 18:54:32 -!- gal_bolle has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:58:15 -!- bmh has quit [] 19:00:09 * due off. 19:01:11 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:31 -!- syllogism has quit [] 19:18:31 -!- Twinge-- has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:26:10 -!- Twinge-- has joined ##crawl-dev 19:26:36 purge: Do you think you'd be able to do a "dark tunnel"? 19:28:17 purge: I basically envisioned something the shape of a door. 19:28:51 -!- Anym has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]"] 19:31:05 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:47:35 do monsters use ?blink? 19:47:38 I've never seen that 19:47:43 but terence was gripping one 19:52:42 -!- Vandal has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:13:27 -!- dpeg has quit ["sleep"] 20:15:27 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 20:17:17 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [] 20:20:18 -!- Turbo has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:25:26 -!- Iainuki_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:32:13 -!- Twinge-- has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:44:26 @??mara 20:44:26 Mara (13R) | Speed: 10 | HD: 18 | Health: 140 | AC/EV: 10/14 | Damage: 30 | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(144), 10elec++, 03poison | XP: 5818 | Sp: mislead, mara summon, b.fire, player ghost, pain, teleport self. 20:44:30 @??azrael 20:44:31 Azrael (04R) | Speed: 10 | HD: 11 | Health: 88 | AC/EV: 10/5 | Damage: 12 | Flags: 05demonic, lev | Res: 06magic(44), 04fire+++, 03poison | Vul: 12cold | XP: 1588 | Sp: b.fire, sticky flame, fireball, hellfire, hellfire burst. 20:44:34 @??efreet 20:44:34 efreet (05R) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 21-56 | AC/EV: 10/5 | Damage: 12 | Flags: 05demonic, lev | Res: 06magic(28), 04fire+++, 03poison | Vul: 12cold | XP: 337 | Sp: b.fire, fireball. 20:50:30 -!- bhaak has quit [card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:50:31 -!- ogaz has quit [card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:50:31 -!- cbus has quit [card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:50:33 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 20:50:34 -!- cbus has joined ##crawl-dev 20:51:32 -!- Twinge-- has joined ##crawl-dev 20:59:16 -!- Timbermaw has quit ["later!"] 20:59:52 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 21:08:30 -!- Twinge has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:20:35 Is charles around? 21:22:48 03due * re211096e8a60 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Tweak Mara resists, experience levels. 21:27:17 -!- SiberSchool has joined ##crawl-dev 21:34:13 -!- siber2 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:34:20 -!- Siber has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:34:21 -!- siber2 is now known as Siber 21:35:12 03dolorous * r2f29aed70730 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Remove the M_ACTUAL_SPELLS flag from fake Maras, for consistency with 21:35:39 Ah, thanks 21:51:27 -!- SiberSchool has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:01:10 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:04:00 -!- bmh has quit [Client Quit] 22:06:56 -!- Iainuki_ has quit [] 22:32:02 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 22:36:43 Cave portal entrance tile(for volcano) (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=616) by purge 22:36:59 Argh, brb 22:38:30 -!- eith has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:44:56 hmm, you can no longer join ##crawl unless you register a nickname? :| 22:46:13 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [] 22:47:10 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 22:47:10 Apparently 23:00:50 purge: elly set that up, we were being attacked by spambots 23:01:19 I've finished the write-up for Chei and Fedhas. 23:01:46 http://pastebin.ca/1771643 23:01:55 Can someone fact-check the two finished gods for me? 23:43:30 -!- by has joined ##crawl-dev 23:43:50 hi 23:52:57 -!- Turbo has joined ##crawl-dev 23:57:46 -!- TGWi has quit ["Leaving."]