00:00 <+greensnark> Naga are immune to floundering 00:01 <+greensnark> Well, they were, I think floundering is gone now 00:07 < Eronarn> did that get in? awesome 00:07 < Eronarn> i don't really agree with totally removing floundering, by the way 00:07 < Eronarn> it's excessive at the current level, but a 10% chance or something would be interesting 00:09 -!- pointless_ [n=chatzill@ool-4576ec48.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 00:09 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v pointless_] by ChanServ 00:10 <@dpeg> pointless_: Hi! 00:10 <+pointless_> Hi 00:10 <@dpeg> pointless_: all Fedhas stuff is in, only the ballistos are left? 00:10 <+pointless_> more or less 00:11 -!- Cryp71c [n=Cryp71c@173-162-21-124-Nashville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:11 <+pointless_> I'm not completely happy with the current evolution UI, and some changes could be made (like making sunlight affect an area instead of inflicting backlit on monsters) 00:12 <@dpeg> agree on sunlight 00:12 <@dpeg> but we need to make sure it's the ability to train Inv with, right? 00:12 <+pointless_> Sure 00:12 <@dpeg> As I said, I found Evolution to be much better than before. 00:12 <@dpeg> Definitely good enough for release. 00:14 <@dpeg> pointless_: so the two proposals are: (1) spores leave a trail. (2) spores can move on their own, creating ballistos only upon explosion. 00:14 <+pointless_> Was non-amphib monsters missing attacks when standing in shallow water removed? 00:14 <+due> Hellooo 00:14 < Henzell> due: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 00:14 <+due> !messages 00:14 < Henzell> (1/3) Mu_ said (9h 14m 15s ago): ask me about my cekugob map 00:14 <+due> !messages 00:14 < Henzell> (1/2) kilobyte said (8h 46m 44s ago): What would you think about rolling boulder traps in Cekugob? 00:14 <+pointless_> dpeg: Yes 00:14 <+due> !messages 00:14 < Henzell> (1/1) dpeg said (19m 26s ago): Are the splashing noise messages gone along with the floundering? 00:14 <@dpeg> due!!! 00:15 <+due> dpeg: Ididn't touch floundering noises. 00:15 <@dpeg> You have been sleeping for TEN hours! :) 00:15 <+due> I know, I needed it. 00:15 -!- Kyrris [n=1@c-67-186-34-100.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 00:15 < Kyrris> @whereis AdeonTwo 00:15 < Gretell> AdeonTwo the Ogre Mage (L24 OgSt), a worshipper of Vehumet, is currently on Vault:8 after 108379 turns. 00:15 < Kyrris> Wrong channel. Whoops. 00:15 <@dpeg> Kyrris: --> ##crawl for that? 00:16 < Kyrris> dpeg: I usually put them in the other order. Confused myself. 00:16 <+due> elly: No +R? 00:16 <@elly> oh, I could do that 00:17 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+o due] by ChanServ 00:17 <@due> dpeg: Happy with the amphib changes? 00:17 <@dpeg> due: yes, a lot! 00:17 <@due> Good, me too. 00:17 <@dpeg> due: I did a fairly radical proposal at submergers. Care to look at it? 00:18 <@dpeg> due: floundering is completely gone by now? 00:18 <@due> Though I believe I have you and Darshan to blame for the initial amphibious speed boost, based on a comment I read in the source. ;) 00:18 <@due> No, floundering is still there! 00:18 <@dpeg> good! 00:18 <@due> I like floundering. 00:18 <+greensnark> Yay floundering 00:18 <@dpeg> so in particular the splashing noises are still in, and Cryptic's patch is not going to waste 00:18 <+pointless_> So do we need the message for monsters missing attacks due to floundering while out of sight/invisible or can I remove it? 00:18 <@dpeg> gotta un-close it now 00:19 <@due> pointless_: We can just reduce the range of the splashing noises. 00:19 <@dpeg> pointless_: if at all, that message should only come up in LOS, imo 00:19 <+pointless_> Yes reducing range is the other option 00:19 <@due> pointless_: I think the messages should stay *if * you ca nsee the monster and its target. 00:19 <+greensnark> dpeg: You get "splashes around in the water" in LOS 00:19 <+greensnark> Might be best to just remove the "splashing noise" 00:19 <@dpeg> greensnark: they were level wide :) 00:19 <+pointless_> you get splashing noise if they are invisible and in sight (probably, I admit I never actually tried that) 00:19 <@dpeg> pointless_: good point 00:20 <+greensnark> I think that's the only case where splashing noise should be retained 00:20 <+greensnark> Invisible but in LOS 00:20 <+pointless_> Ok 00:20 <@due> I like invisible but in LOS splashing noises. 00:21 <@dpeg> ok, someone gotta do that right now? 00:21 <+greensnark> I guess I should remove the band leader setting from Ilsuiw's band 00:21 <@dpeg> cleans up that bit 00:22 <@dpeg> due: an opinion on the submerging stuff? 00:22 <+greensnark> dpeg: I think pointless is on it? 00:22 <+pointless_> I'll do it 00:22 <@dpeg> yay 00:22 <@due> Thanks pointless_! 00:22 < CIA-81> j-p-e-g * rf55474b781b3 /crawl-ref/source/dat/database/FAQ.txt: Use "character background" in the FAQ. 00:22 <@due> I have play-testing posts to write. :o 00:22 < CIA-81> j-p-e-g * re88af52afc27 /crawl-ref/source/rltiles/item/armour/artefact/urand_clouds.png: Use Porkchop's tile for the Robe of Clouds. 00:22 <+greensnark> Gogo playtesting posts 00:22 <@dpeg> due: an opinion is okay for me now, so I can leave it be. Redid that page three times by now. 00:22 <@dpeg> but yes, <3 playtesting posts 00:23 <@due> dpeg: For submerging? Sure, hang on. 00:23 <@due> Changing when monsters submerge and unsubmerge is quite easy, to. 00:23 <@dpeg> to all: my latest proposal has no defensive submerging whatsoever. Instead, kraken get an "emit ink cloud" emergency spell, so they can flee with that 00:24 <@due> I like ink cloud emergency spell. 00:24 <@due> We could use a cloud that only travels through water. 00:24 <@dpeg> yes 00:24 <@due> And it could not use # like thick gloom 00:24 <@dpeg> black water! 00:24 <@due> But instead colour the water darkgrey? 00:24 <@dpeg> yes 00:24 <@due> What do you think? 00:24 <@due> Should it still block LOS? 00:24 <@dpeg> squids are very intelligent and do the ink -- sure! 00:24 <@due> I really like that idea. 00:25 <@due> It's a heck of a lot more interresting than submerging. 00:26 <+greensnark> +1 00:26 <@due> +10 here ;) 00:26 <@due> I'll put it on my todo. 00:26 <@due> I can probably do it in about three minutes, it's just the recompile that would take the time. 00:26 <+greensnark> That serpentine document beginning to straddle the worlds yet? :) 00:26 <+greensnark> I know mine does :P 00:28 <@due> dpeg: Serpentine document? 00:28 <@due> Oh, todo. :) 00:28 <@due> It's just my crawl todo. 00:28 <@due> My work todo is... yeah, let's not discuss that. 00:28 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-158-173.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 00:29 <@due> dpeg: Shark warning? "You hear the faint duh-duh-duh-duh noise of a shark approaching." 00:29 <+greensnark> :P 00:31 <@dpeg> you haven't seen my todo, folks 00:32 <@dpeg> 30 kb text in various files 00:32 <@due> dpeg: Submerges sounds good. 00:32 <@due> dpeg: Convex hull. 00:32 <@dpeg> due: white fin! 00:32 <+greensnark> Crawl needs rafts 00:32 <@dpeg> due: all other water creatures are unseen until they're there 00:32 <@dpeg> the shark has the fin 00:32 <@due> dpeg: How do I take a series of points that always share either an X-axis or Y-axis with another point and generate a polygon? 00:32 <+greensnark> Which the player can paddle, with some appendages outside the raft 00:33 <+greensnark> due: That sounds like a straight line? :P 00:33 <@dpeg> hehe 00:33 <@due> Either a X-axis or a Y-axis. 00:33 <@dpeg> due: wait a moment --- do you know the number of points in advance? 00:33 <@due> dpeg: Yes. 00:33 <+greensnark> Oh 00:34 -!- Twinge_ [n=user@97-124-163-108.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:34 <@due> And they'll always be vertical or horizontal vertices. 00:34 <@due> Never diagonal. 00:34 <+greensnark> So you'd get a convex trapezium? 00:34 <@dpeg> due: you randomly place points, one after the other, so as to increase corners of the polygon each time 00:34 <+greensnark> Oh, any number of points 00:34 <@dpeg> greensnark: trapezoid 00:35 <+greensnark> Ah yes 00:35 <@due> Well 00:35 <@due> Let me ASCII art 00:35 <@dpeg> after that, you go round the polygon and move a point so that it lines up horizontally or vertically to a neighbour _and_ such that no corner is lost 00:35 <+greensnark> But trapezoid implies parallel sides, no 00:35 <@dpeg> no! 00:35 <@dpeg> it is a synonym for 4-gon :) 00:35 <@dpeg> greensnark: trapezium sounds like a chemical element 00:35 <+greensnark> Wikipedia says it must have one set of parlell sides :) 00:35 <@dpeg> taht is a trapez 00:35 <+greensnark> I think generiic "quadrilateral" is what we use in English 00:36 <@due> http://pastebin.ca/1762234 00:36 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-158-173.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:36 <+greensnark> According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the sense of a figure with no sides parallel is the meaning for which Proclus introduced the term "trapezoid". This is retained in the French "trapézoïde", German "Trapezoid", and in other languages. 00:36 <@due> Basically, I would like to put "BoundsMarkers" at each corner of that. 00:36 <+greensnark> ^^ from Wikipedia 00:36 <@dpeg> due: this is not convex 00:36 <@due> Then have a Lua function that goes "point is in bounds". 00:36 <@due> dpeg: Ah, what is convex then? 00:36 <@dpeg> greensnark: interesting 00:36 <+greensnark> due: No inward-dips 00:36 <@due> Ahhhh. 00:37 <+greensnark> No two points in the body should have a connecting line that leaves the body 00:37 <@dpeg> "no inward-dips" <3 00:37 <@due> Okay, that makes sense. 00:37 <@due> So it would be more like a circle around it? 00:37 <+greensnark> No no :) 00:37 <@dpeg> due: check my algorithm above 00:37 <+greensnark> It doesn't have to be circular 00:37 <@due> Yeah 00:37 <@due> I suppose it depends on the original shape. 00:38 <@dpeg> due: but you will get at most 8-gons with your condition 00:38 <@dpeg> ie. convex + adjacent corners have same x or y coordinate ==> number of corners < 9 00:39 < Kyrris> And if they have to share a coordinate with both neighbors, you will always get a rectangle. 00:39 <@due> Okay. 00:39 <@dpeg> due: does 8 suffice? 00:39 <@due> dpeg: Hm, I'm not sure. 00:40 <@dpeg> due: then you have to loosen one restriction 00:40 <@due> Basically, my idea is that each corner is a Marker, then from that list of markers it works out whether or not the given point is inside of the polygon. 00:40 <@due> The other option is to just apply the marker to every point inside the polygon. 00:40 <@dpeg> sounds as if convex is more crucial 00:40 <+greensnark> Markers are big memory hogs :P 00:40 <@due> greensnark: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. 00:40 <+greensnark> And traversing lots of markers would be expensive 00:41 <@due> Yup. 00:41 <@due> Hence why I thought corners might be simpler. 00:41 <+greensnark> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_in_polygon 00:42 <@due> Oh, hello. 00:46 <@due> Anyway, greensnark! 00:46 <@due> I can't remember what I was going to ask you. 00:46 <@dpeg> something about troves, I bet 00:46 <@due> Actually, no, troves are doing okay. 00:46 <@dpeg> hey! 00:46 <@due> I just need to finish writing all the item_def wrappers. 00:46 <+greensnark> Sounds like fun. Not :P 00:47 <@dpeg> there was a comment about "golem factory" on SA 00:47 * due doesn't read SA these days. 00:47 * due barely reads SF. 00:47 <@dpeg> it was generally positive but had some thing to say 00:47 <@dpeg> due: neither do I, but someone linked a Shoals story 00:47 <+greensnark> Yeah, whoever it was liked the golem factory, but thought it was too easy 00:47 <@due> which one is golem factory? 00:47 <@dpeg> exactly 00:48 <@dpeg> no idea :) 00:48 <@due> Oh, golem_gauntle_mu. 00:48 <@due> Neil's golem vault. 00:48 <@due> It has an ancient lich. How is it too easy? 00:48 <+greensnark> Pretty soon SA will come to realise that saying something is too easy there has consequences :P 00:48 <@dpeg> nothing beats two ancient liches 00:48 <@dpeg> behind glass 00:48 <+greensnark> Eek 00:48 <@dpeg> okay, three liches 00:49 <+greensnark> Three's much better 00:49 <+greensnark> A crawly number 00:49 <@due> but sure, we can add extra liches. 00:49 <@due> Heh 00:49 <+greensnark> I can't believe you shortchanged us with two liches in Crypt:5 00:49 <@dpeg> four ancient liches meet behind ancient glass 00:49 <+greensnark> Crawl demands three 00:49 <@due> Someone said "I don't get crawl's obsession with 27" somewhere recently 00:49 <+greensnark> Noooo, not 4 00:49 <+greensnark> 3! 00:49 <@due> And I was like "3 cubed?" 00:49 <+greensnark> 4 is a very inauspicious number in China 00:49 <@dpeg> greensnark: I don't believe in numbers 00:49 <@dpeg> greensnark: yes 00:49 < hashc> i don't get nethack's obsession with candles 00:49 <+greensnark> dpeg: Who says you have to believe in numbers :P 00:49 <@dpeg> but 9 is good there? 00:49 < Kyrris> dpeg counts by naming everything. 00:49 < hashc> i don't get adom's obsession with corruption 00:50 <+greensnark> dpeg: Yes, I think so 00:50 <@due> 4 is evil. 00:50 <@due> I like 33. 00:50 <+greensnark> The goofy Indians who believe in numerology also think 9 is hotness 00:50 <@dpeg> greensnark: I recall a time when I got scolded by the team for mentioning a desire for 27 gods 00:50 <+greensnark> :P 00:50 <@dpeg> but we will get there....slowly 00:50 < hashc> none of the 27 will be a stealth god 00:51 <@dpeg> the really cool thing is that there will be 27^3=3^3^3 species/background/god combos 00:51 <+greensnark> Actually, one of the 27 will be a stealth god 00:51 <@dpeg> hashc: hey! 00:51 <+greensnark> But nobody will notice they're there! 00:51 <+greensnark> Harhar, stealth god, geddit, harhar 00:51 <@dpeg> yes! the altars will be camouflaged 00:51 * due chortles. 00:51 < hashc> you need sInv to find them 00:51 <@due> Hm 00:51 <@due> Invisible altar! 00:51 <@due> I still need to do Grinder. 00:52 <@due> dpeg: Can I still do the imp unique torturer? :D 00:52 < Kyrris> Special-case it to the floor glyph? 00:52 <@dpeg> due: yes, but perhaps not now 00:52 <@due> Yeah 00:52 <@due> It's on the "do after troves" list. 00:52 <@dpeg> greensnark inadvertently announced 0.6 to be ready in four weeks 00:52 <@due> "of flame of flame" death notices. 00:52 <@due> What? 00:52 <@dpeg> yes! 00:52 <@due> Are we seriously aiming for four weeks? 00:52 <+greensnark> I said I'd like it to be :P 00:53 <+greensnark> We can totally do it if AC mechanics are settled by Monday :P 00:53 <@dpeg> due: I am trying to hint at FEATURE STOP without the evil words :) 00:53 <@due> WizLanbs probably won't be ready. :( 00:53 <@dpeg> greensnark: they will be 00:53 <@dpeg> due: don't worry 00:53 <@due> dpeg: I'm still doing crocodiles and alligators, but I'll leave everything else for 0.7. 00:53 <+greensnark> due: You can put in the ones that are ready and push the rest to 0.7 00:53 <@dpeg> there are some we can use, and they will grow 00:53 <@due> dpeg: I'll just trim out all the unfinished ones for 0.6, I think. 00:53 <@due> dpeg: Yeah. 00:53 <@due> greensnark: Yes, exactly. 00:54 <@due> greensnark: Though tiles aren't finished at the minute, I'll maybe do a feature stop on doing more WizLabs and just finishing polishing the ones existant. 00:54 <@dpeg> having one or two or so is good, so players know the concept and someone may even help with the work! 00:54 <@dpeg> existEnt 00:54 <@due> I <3 ents. 00:54 <@due> I love my todo list "of flame of flame deaths", "crocodiles and alligators, oh my!" 00:55 <@due> "inky squid bop". 00:55 <+greensnark> I don't think a feature stop is necessary, but 0.6 should be branched off 00:55 <+greensnark> SO that major new changes keep going to master 00:55 <@due> Yeah, that's a really good idea. 00:55 <+greensnark> Until 0.6 is branched, it won't start stabilising towards releasability 00:56 <@due> I agree. 00:56 <+greensnark> And merging between branches should be a lot easier with git 00:56 <@dpeg> due: if you don't feel like doing the submergers, that's completely okay. I asked you because you also did the amphibiousness bits but I will surely bugger the other ones. For example, our tiles fraction could do some serious work, too. 00:56 <@due> dpeg: It's just a matter of tweaking monsters::wants_submerge, I think. 00:56 <@dpeg> due: I think my proposal does a bit more... 00:57 <@due> Well, yeah 00:57 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-152-56.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 00:57 <@dpeg> hidden approaching etc. 00:57 -!- purge_ is now known as purge 00:57 <@due> But basically disabling submerging while fleeing is easy 00:57 <@dpeg> they shouldn't flee 00:57 <@due> Yeah. 00:57 <@due> purge! tile push! 00:57 * due pushes purge. 00:57 < purge> how about instead of alligators, we make alligator men! 00:57 < purge> :D 00:57 < purge> with a bite attack! 00:57 <@dpeg> purge: declined :) 00:58 < purge> we will call them allitaurs 00:58 -!- Cryp71c [i=Cryp71c@c-68-53-104-165.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58 <@due> dpeg: I'm moving giant lizard's colour and glyph and name, but it'll have roughly similar stats, and even similar icon. 00:58 <@due> Er, s/icon/tile/g. 00:58 < purge> due: huh? 00:58 <@dpeg> due: okay 00:59 <@due> Giant lizard lightgreen 'l' becomes 'crocodile brown t', with similar stats and appearances. 00:59 < hashc> randomly replace the Hall of Blades with the Library, full of spellcasters and spellbooks 00:59 <@due> Crocodile really emphasises the threat level of giant lizards for the early game, I think. 01:00 <@due> And it also makes them more flavourful when they get their 0.7 constrict. 01:00 <@dpeg> hashc: that's not good enough. Need kicking spellbooks. 01:01 <@due> Animated spellbooks. 01:01 <@dpeg> but only after the effing dancing weapons dance 01:01 < hashc> ^ 01:01 <@due> They cast the spells that are found within them. 01:01 < purge> due: for the bush burning tile why can't you overlay the fire cloud tile with transparency? 01:01 < hashc> animated book of the Warp 01:01 < purge> well lemme look at it in photoshop... 01:01 <@due> hashc: Prrecisely <3 01:01 <@due> purge: That might work! 01:01 <@due> Okay, I love the idea of an animated spellbook. 01:02 <@due> annimated book of annihilations. 01:02 <@dpeg> I love the idea of a burning spellbook. 01:02 < Cryp71c> lol would that mean you could walk in as a Trogg-worshipper and af ? 01:02 < Kyrris> Those would make awesome additions to wizards' labs. 01:02 <@dpeg> scrap that, I also love the idea of any other burning book 01:02 < TGW> hi trog 01:02 <@due> Cryp71c: Exactly. 01:02 <@due> dpeg: :o! 01:02 < Kyrris> Spellbooks they're famous for that you have to deanimate to claim. 01:02 < Cryp71c> lolguyz, I cleared Library as Be! 01:02 <@dpeg> due: it is my cultural heritage 01:02 <@due> :( 01:03 < Cryp71c> I do like the idea of a caster-flavoured replacement for the HoB 01:03 <@due> My cultural heritage is illiteracy, so I suppose that's not much of a difference. 01:03 < Kyrris> Especially Tukima, obviously. 01:03 <@dpeg> due: hey, not serious. But there's plenty of books which deserve it. 01:03 <@due> dpeg: I didn't think you were serious, just to clarify :) 01:03 <@dpeg> due: "Don't worship idols of paper and wood!" :) 01:04 * due does. 01:04 <@due> I love books the most. I am like the anti-Trog. 01:04 <@dpeg> My son can read! :) 01:05 <@due> Hooray! 01:05 <@due> Okay, 9 emails left, then play testing post. 01:05 <@due> Should I cover the Temple today? 01:05 <@due> I thin kthat might work. 01:05 <@dpeg> good idea, perhaps also mention the new and modified gods, at least in passing? 01:06 <@dpeg> as this is why we got there in the first place 01:06 <@due> That's coming in "Come Jiyva With Me" :) 01:06 <@due> Which I'll post sometime during the week. 01:07 <@dpeg> cool 01:08 < Twinge> dpeg: Yes, there is basically one guy behind it. And he's even sitting in #freenode (and was antagonizing the ops there, though not enough to get banned.) {Off topic, I know - but I can't talk in ##crawl right now :P} 01:08 <@due> ... really? 01:09 <@due> That seems odd. 01:10 <@dpeg> Twinge: losers without a life, nothing to get excited about. Thank the gods that the defences are working. 01:11 <@due> Email done, finally! 01:11 * due dances with Frances. 01:17 <@dpeg> sent an email to syllogism =) 01:17 <@dpeg> (still working on the AC front) 01:18 < Twinge> dpeg: Apparently most IRC networks are protected against similar by simply forcing you to give a randomzied ping reply on connect or something to that effect, which Freenode is lacking. 01:19 <@elly> actually, a lot of networks are now protected by zlining you immediately if your first command is POST :P 01:19 <@dpeg> elly: so freenode is behind the times? 01:19 <@elly> yes 01:19 <@elly> intentionally, I believe 01:19 <@elly> they are migrating to a new ircd in less than two weeks and can't be bothered to hack the old one 01:23 < Twinge> Ah. 01:24 <@due> So for the next two weeks, as many people as possible will take advantage of it. 01:27 <@elly> more or less 01:28 <@due> Need music. 01:29 <@elly> my headphones broke :\ 01:29 <@due> :( 01:29 * due faxes new ones over. 01:29 <@elly> I wish :P 01:31 < CIA-81> rburnham * r728ac87d58d1 /crawl-ref/source/ (monster.cc stuff.cc stuff.h): 0000460 : "you hear a splashing noise." message leak 01:31 < CIA-81> pointless_ * r795832d886be /crawl-ref/source/ (monster.cc stuff.cc): Fix call to player_can_hear used for the monster splashing message 01:31 < CIA-81> pointless_ * r96b195144c4a /crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Fix an assert triggered by drawing sunlight in the console version 01:31 <@due> Hooray 01:31 <@due> pointless_: What do you think about sunlight harming shadows and vampires? 01:31 <@due> Or at least causing the "fear" state in nthem. 01:32 <+pointless_> I don't really care, it doesn't seem important so I didn't bother doing anything with it 01:32 <@dpeg> perhaps simply a message would suffice 01:33 <@dpeg> "This battle-hardened vampire does not fall for cheap tricks like this. The vampire spawns 10.200 rats." 01:33 <@due> dpeg: Mwahaha, that's good, too. 01:33 <+pointless_> I think a good change would be to make sunlight illuminate the aoe for some number of turns, and after making that change we could make vampires/shadows avoid those squares 01:33 <@due> pointless_: That would be nice, also. 01:33 <@dpeg> pointless_: good thinking! 01:34 <@dpeg> pointless_: I am a bit confused about the splashing noise message. Didn't we mean to only print it for invisible, floundering monsters in LOS? 01:34 <+pointless_> that's what it should do now 01:34 <@dpeg> good 01:35 <+pointless_> ok it's not really checking LOS, just a distance function 01:35 <+pointless_> so something out of LOS diagonally to you may still cause the message, but it seems unimportant 01:35 <@due> dpeg: when's the earliest and latest ranges for overflow altars? 01:35 <@dpeg> 3-9, I believe 01:35 <@dpeg> but may be 2-9 01:35 <@dpeg> pointless_: that's okay 01:36 * due checks. 01:36 <+pointless_> any opinions on friendly wandering mushroom AI? I'm thinking about making them follow you and only stop moving when hostiles are in sight 01:36 <@dpeg> pointless_: what do they do right now? 01:36 <@due> dpeg: Same as hostiles. 01:37 <+pointless_> They do the avoid your LOS thing 01:37 <+pointless_> that hostiles do 01:37 <@dpeg> ah 01:37 <@due> dpeg: 2-9. 01:37 <@dpeg> thanks 01:38 <@dpeg> well, would be cool if they followed the player, but only moving out of sight 01:39 <+pointless_> That's what they do now basically. It's kind of weird and they seem to get stuck easily 01:40 <@due> Yeah, it's odd. 01:40 < purge> due: uploaded with burning bush, what do you think? 01:41 < Ashenzari> Burning bush tile submission (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=518) by purge 01:41 < purge> well, if that one is used, that takes care of another category on the wiki :D 01:47 <@due> purge: Hm, interesting 01:48 < purge> interesting? that doesn't sound good.. whats wrong with it? 01:49 <@due> I don't know, maybe the flame cloud should be more transparent? 01:49 <@due> Also: dpeg, we need a burning bush Beogh altar vault. 01:50 < purge> due: i thought it should stand out from the surroundings since its the source of burning, not just a cloud 01:50 <@due> Hm, yeah. 01:51 <+pointless_> Oh I had some kind of error last night with a trog altar. I got this message sequence: Found a bloodstained altar of Trog. The book bursts into flames! Trog roars with delight! ERROR: Trigerrable already removed 01:51 <@dpeg> due: :) 01:51 <@due> pointless_: :( 01:52 < purge> due: I kind of like it the way it is so i'll wait to see what jpeg/enne/kesk think :) 01:52 < Cryp71c> due, how do you guys keep up (on the wiki) with things that have met the approval of enough people to implement and such? I noticed that most of the brainstorming pages are (as the name suggests) lists of ideas 01:52 < purge> oh but i thought of a problem.. i need it animated don't I.... 01:52 < Cryp71c> Do discussions take place elsewhere, or just on irc and via msgs? 01:52 -!- Noeda [n=mikko@romeo-15.srv.hosting.fi] has joined ##crawl-dev 01:53 -!- Kyrris is now known as Hidwiwi 01:53 <@due> Cryp71c: We don't. :) 01:53 <@due> Usually there isn't much that needs approval of a lot of people. 01:53 <@dpeg> Cryp71c: just ask (on the wiki, the list, or here) whether something is codeable! Anything you're interested in right now? 01:54 <@due> Yeah. 01:54 <@due> A lot of the time it's a "coder decides" issue. 01:54 < Cryp71c> dpeg, well I've tried to help shorten the list of active bugs, both by reporting old (or already fixed) ones and tackling some of the ones that I seem capable of doing. 01:54 < Cryp71c> dpeg, but with as complex and numerous as everything tends to be, its difficult 01:55 <@due> Hehe, yeah. 01:55 < Cryp71c> For instance I went through some of the mutations code to see if the 'getting fire facets while also getting ice facets' might be something I can fix...and I've found the area where that logic would go 01:55 < Cryp71c> But it seems *slightly* outside my reach 01:55 <@due> Yeah, I don't like touching that code. 01:55 <@due> It's scary. 01:55 -!- Adeon [n=mikko@romeo-15.srv.hosting.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:56 < Cryp71c> It looks very elegantyl wrote, and undocumented....which makes it difficult to follow. 01:56 <@due> dpeg: Re: vaults with visible fish, we could enforce a no_submerge flag. 01:56 <@dpeg> due: yes 01:56 <@dpeg> Cryp71c: are you interested in taking up stuff other than bugs? 01:57 < Cryp71c> dpeg, certainly 01:57 <@due> dpeg: I'll see if I can do a percentage of the stuff today, then. 01:57 <@dpeg> Cryp71c: hm, what to do, off the top of my hat? 01:57 <@dpeg> Cryp71c: contributors usually start with interface stuff 01:58 < Twinge> Xom additions! 01:58 < syllogism> dpeg: the new formula seems to more than halve gdr for everything but the crystal plate 01:58 <@dpeg> syllogism: ah, so the quadratic effect is too strong 01:58 -!- SiberSchool is now known as Siber 01:58 <@due> Also, giant lizard -> crocodile. Alligator will be a new monster for swamp. 01:58 <@dpeg> but you may have that already covered by bug hunting 01:58 <@dpeg> due: that's good 01:59 -!- Hidwiwi is now known as Kyrris 02:00 -!- ogaz_ [n=chatzill@169.236.122.209] has joined ##crawl-dev 02:01 < Cryp71c> dpeg, I don't mind contributing wherever stuff needs to get done. Obviously, something that isn't incredibly complex might minimize the amount of help I have to get from here, but anything is fine. 02:01 -!- ogaz [n=chatzill@169.236.122.209] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 02:01 -!- ogaz_ is now known as ogaz 02:01 < Cryp71c> Whether that's documentation, interface, wherever. 02:01 -!- Iainuki_ [n=NoOne@unaffiliated/iainuki] has joined ##crawl-dev 02:03 < Cryp71c> I work as a programmer, so I can pick up mostly anything, given a fair amount of time 02:03 <@dpeg> Cryp71c: have a glance at http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:interface:interface 02:03 <@dpeg> this is full of stuff, ask me about priorities :) 02:03 <@due> dpeg: Can you prof my Temple post? 02:04 <@dpeg> due: sure, where? 02:04 <@due> ... proof. 02:04 <@due> dpeg: http://pastebin.ca/1762315 02:04 <@due> Not so much proof for english, but just sanity. 02:04 < CIA-81> pointless_ * r629a7ffc5d08 /crawl-ref/source/ (godabil.cc religion.cc): Make toadstools generated by decomposition neutral again 02:04 -!- Noeda is now known as Adeon 02:05 <@dpeg> due: yes, very good stuff! 02:05 <@due> dpeg: Excellent. 02:06 <@due> I like how an ease of development change for us just created massive tactical questions for the player. 02:07 < Cryp71c> brb 02:07 <@dpeg> due: yes! I was always aware of it, but there was... opposition :) Also, the earlier proposals were more radical (e.g. not granting access to all altars by D:9) 02:08 <@due> I love the current system. 02:09 < purge> due: i uploaded a second version, is that better? 02:10 <@due> Ooh, I like that more. 02:10 <@due> The only other thing I would do is trim the fire away from the bottom of the bush, where the stump is? 02:11 < Cryp71c> dpeg, I'll take an extended look at that list and see what pops, but I'm interested not only in contributing, but in learning...so if you feel the need to assign me something which needs to get done and would help me become more attuned to how crawl operates (at least interface wise), by all means. Just !tell me if anything comes to you. 02:11 < Cryp71c> I'm heading out for a bit. 02:11 <@dpeg> Cryp71c: many thanks, have fun 02:11 <@due> Cryp71c: Have fun! 02:12 <+sorear> Wait, floundering is gone? 02:12 <@due> sorear: No, it's not. 02:12 <@due> sorear: Water attack bonus is gone. 02:13 <@due> There was a misunderstanding. 02:13 * sorear is catching up on mantis 02:13 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [-o due] by due 02:13 <+due> Yeah 02:13 <+due> Floundering is still there, because I think it's interesting. 02:14 <+pointless_> dpeg: so I'm looking at this bug: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=265 what's the problem with just preventing toadstools from spawning in damaging clouds? 02:15 <@dpeg> pointless_: is this still a problem -- do you still get punished? 02:15 <+pointless_> you can probably get piety loss for toadstools getting created in flame clouds you placed 02:16 <@dpeg> ah, I see 02:16 <@dpeg> even for neutral (not player generated) toadstools? 02:17 <+pointless_> In this case the kill would be attributed to the player and they would get (minor) piety loss for killing a protected species 02:17 <@dpeg> hm, not sure 02:17 <+due> "You kill endangered species! Fedhas sic RPSCA on you!" 02:17 <@dpeg> pointless_: encouraging players to not use cloud spells could be interesting 02:18 <+pointless_> Well ignoring the issue is an option, but in the bug you seemed to want to change kill attribution rules for clouds or something, which seemed excessive to me 02:19 <@dpeg> yes, I distance myself from that :) 02:20 <+due> The amazing backpedalling dpeg! 02:20 * due tunes in for the show? ;) 02:20 < Kyrris> Fedhas already somewhat discourages explosion spells. Also giving clouds problems could be interesting for conjurers. Could be reallyannoying. 02:20 <+due> (We love you anyway.) 02:21 <+pointless_> Well I don't care about this issue all that much, it's easy enough to prevent toadstools etc. from spawning in damaging clouds or we can leave it as is. 02:21 <@dpeg> pointless_: yes, let's wait with that 02:24 -!- Kyrris [n=1@c-67-186-34-100.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:27 <+due> Oh, we need tree in water tiles for swamp before we can push 0.6. 02:27 <+due> I'm not sure how best to go about doing this, but tree in shallow water should probably do it. 02:28 <+due> Oh 02:28 <+due> Amulet of stasis, does that stop rot? 02:29 <@dpeg> it shouldn't 02:29 <+due> Hm. 02:29 <+due> Why not? 02:29 <+due> It stops petrification. 02:30 < purge> due: uploaded a third version, please comment which is your favorite, then i'll see what others say and make an animation out of the favorite 02:30 < purge> also, please delete the other in game pics besides in_game_all 02:31 <+due> Ooh, like that one the most. 02:31 <+due> Done. 02:32 < purge> thanks 02:32 <+due> And comented. 02:32 < purge> due: actually i do too lol 02:32 < purge> i have a feeling it will be unamious 02:33 < purge> but i'll wait and see what at least jpeg has to say 02:33 <@dpeg> due: stopping rot is not good 02:33 <@dpeg> you carry it with you as a get-rid-of-rot item 02:33 <+due> Hm. 02:33 <+due> I don't mean getting rid of rot 02:34 <+due> It doesn't affect slowing or hasting that's already existant 02:34 <+due> So if you are rotting 02:34 < ogaz> I would say that stasis should only stop magical effects, while rot is more of a physical effect(if that makes any sense) 02:34 <+due> And you put it on, nothing should happen 02:34 <+due> But it could be used to prevent the initial start of rot, say via miasma. 02:35 <@dpeg> hm, I think it's full enough already 02:36 <+due> Okay 02:36 < Eronarn> what does it do currently anyways 02:36 <+due> then we have no intention of providing any form of rotting resistance for the player? 02:36 * due doesn't care eithe rway. 02:38 <@dpeg> due: we never had one! 02:38 <+due> Yes, but miasma never depended purely on rotting resistance before! 02:39 <+due> (Well, no as far as i know.) 02:44 <+due> Almost finished the first page of commits. 02:45 <+due> Another... two to go. :/ 02:59 -!- cgrcykrt [n=lld@76-238-168-63.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 02:59 < cgrcykrt> Hi all. It seems we are again seeing javascript based flood spam. If you are experiencing this, please do not click the links in the messages as they will cause you to repeat the spam. More information is available at http://peoplesprimary.com. Thanks! 02:59 < cgrcykrt> Hi all. It seems we are again seeing javascript based flood spam. If you are experiencing this, please do not click the links in the messages as they will cause you to repeat the spam. More information is available at http://peoplesprimary.com. Thanks! 02:59 -!- cgrcykrt [n=lld@76-238-168-63.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:59 <@elly> dammit. 02:59 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+o due] by ChanServ 02:59 <@elly> I'd hoped to avoid doing it to this place as well 02:59 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+R] by due, elly 02:59 <@elly> oh, hi due :P 02:59 <@due> :p 03:00 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [-o due] by due 03:01 < ogaz> 8 consonants 03:04 -!- areems [i=c46hkMdx@Doberanala-1-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 03:04 -!- areems [i=c46hkMdx@Doberanala-1-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:07 -!- syllogism [i=syllogis@85-131-29-172.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 03:07 -!- nfennughli [n=uvpwven@223.105.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined ##crawl-dev 03:08 -!- nfennughli [n=uvpwven@223.105.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Broken pipe] 03:10 -!- fxbl [n=scrqt@c-24-10-200-153.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 03:10 -!- fxbl [n=scrqt@c-24-10-200-153.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [K-lined] 03:15 -!- emukaokrufmg [n=ixabilyi@129.215.71-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 03:15 -!- kloeri__ [n=kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16 -!- emukaokrufmg [n=ixabilyi@129.215.71-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [K-lined] 03:17 <+due> kloeri__: Thanks. 03:17 <+due> On "3 days ago"! 03:17 <+due> Arg. 03:17 <+due> Thankfully, I am just summarisinng the whole messagewindow change as one block, so I can ignore most everything else. 03:18 < kloeri__> heh 03:18 <+due> I should do play-testing summaries more often, they usually take me all day to write. 03:28 -!- purge [n=IceChat7@d192-24-82-173.try.wideopenwest.com] has left ##crawl-dev [] 03:29 <+due> kloeri__: I can't set mode -e on myself. 03:30 -!- purge_ [n=IceChat7@d192-24-82-173.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined ##crawl-dev 03:31 <+due> purge_: Can you speak okay? 03:31 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v purge_] by ChanServ 03:31 <+purge_> umm i just registered this nick 03:31 * due has no idea if +v helps with +R. 03:31 <+due> Ah, good. :) 03:32 <+due> Are you identified to it? 03:32 <+purge_> -v me and let me try 03:32 <+purge_> yeah 03:32 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [-v purge_] by ChanServ 03:32 <+due> How about now? 03:33 -!- purge_ [n=IceChat7@d192-24-82-173.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:34 <+due> I'll probably just take +R down shortly, there doesn't appear to be any more hits. 03:36 -!- ogaz [n=chatzill@169.236.122.209] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:36 < Cryp71c> Alright, I'm back.. 03:36 <+due> Welcome back. 03:36 <+due> dpeg has skedaddled, though. 03:36 < Cryp71c> due, this may sound dumb....what language is dcss written in? :P 03:36 -!- purge_ [n=IceChat7@d192-24-82-173.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined ##crawl-dev 03:36 <+due> C++! 03:36 <+due> Lua. 03:37 < Cryp71c> lol, is it pure lua? It doesn't look like it 03:37 <+due> Vault syntax, Perl, with a dash of flex and bison throw in. 03:37 <+due> The stuff in dat/clua/ is pure Lua. 03:37 <+due> The stuff in dat/des/* is Vault syntax. 03:38 < Cryp71c> and the .cc .h files are c++? or perl? 03:38 < Cryp71c> It looks like c++, but I wasn't sure. 03:38 < Cryp71c> There are little touches of definitely not C++ syntax 03:38 <+pointless_> those are c++ 03:38 <+pointless_> such as? 03:38 < Cryp71c> pointless_, the if def DEBUG code doesn't appear like standard C++ 03:39 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+o due] by ChanServ 03:39 <@due> #ifdef DEBUG is C++ 03:39 <+pointless_> things that start with a #, such as #ifdef or #define are preprocessor directives 03:39 <@due> That's a standard preprocessor statement, no? 03:39 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [-R] by due 03:39 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [-o due] by due 03:39 <+due> purge_: I'll take it down for now, the onslaught seems to have stopped. 03:39 < purge_> thanks :) 03:40 < Cryp71c> ah, perhaps that's why its unfamiliar, I don't think we did much preprocessor stuff in my academia 03:40 <+due> The C++ is usually esoteric, I've found. 03:41 <+due> There's a lot of macroes and weird things. 03:41 < Cryp71c> Working with the crawl source has rekindled my <3 for compiled languages. I think that's what I'll look for in my next job. 03:41 <+due> It hasn't for me. 03:41 < Cryp71c> ;) 03:41 <+due> Waiting for everything to recompile after altering enum.h? 03:42 <+due> Argh. 03:42 < Cryp71c> due, ah compilinig is part of the fun! 03:42 < Cryp71c> Well...maybe not for open source projects you're volunteering for 03:42 < Cryp71c> But its fun enough when you're being paid to wait for it to compile :P 03:42 <+due> Hehe. 03:42 < Cryp71c> Paper-ball basketball, anyone? 03:43 <+due> YAY PAGE 1! 03:43 < Twinge> http://xkcd.com/303/ 03:44 < Cryp71c> haha, yep :) I tried to explain that comic to my wife in the car the other day...I don't think I adequately conveyed the message, showing her might've been more effective. 03:46 <+due> purge_: I *love* the palm tree. 03:47 <+due> For the Dessert branch. :D 03:49 < purge_> cool :) 03:50 < purge_> unique cookie monster? 03:55 -!- purge_ is now known as purge 03:55 < Cryp71c> due, do you have any idea where the description code is at when you target a monster? 03:57 <+due> Cryp71c: The targetting interface stuff? 03:57 < Cryp71c> yeah 03:57 <+due> Cryp71c: I'm not sure, HAran's been doing a lot of work on that recently... 03:58 < Cryp71c> due, ah..was going to look into the shortening targetting description stuff so there's less message spam. 03:58 <+due> Ah, Haran's been working on that :) 03:58 <+due> ... I think? 03:58 < Cryp71c> Does he/she ever get on IRC? 03:58 <+due> haranp? Yes, but I haven't seen him since last week. 03:59 <+due> Oh, also, s/him/em/g. 03:59 <+due> I am not actually sure on preferred pronoun, someone will likely clear this up. 04:01 < Cryp71c> hrm, I guess I'll mention a few options to dpeg and hope that he knows what haran ( / other people) are working on. 04:02 <+due> Oh, hooray, up to las tnight. 04:11 <+due> Oh 04:11 <+due> Can someone close the remove slime creatures from swamp bug? 04:11 <+due> Ort I'll do it when I'mfinished the playtesting post. 04:13 -!- dpeg [n=dpeg@dis.angband.pl] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 04:13 < MarvinPA> can only the person who reported the bug close it, when it's resolved? 04:13 < MarvinPA> or admins 04:13 <+due> Admins can, or the person who reported it. 04:14 < Cryp71c> I can close my own bugs? I didn't see that option before 04:14 < MarvinPA> yeah 04:14 <+due> We prefer that people do that, so that they confirm it is fixed. 04:14 < MarvinPA> hit 'my view', and there's a section for "awaiting confirmation of resolution from me" 04:14 <+due> "Fixed, closing" -> "Fixed, marked as resolved, please confirmthat it is and close". :) 04:14 < MarvinPA> yeah exactly, that's the best way to do it 04:15 < MarvinPA> but there are lots and lots of resolved bugs that have not been closed :( 04:15 < Cryp71c> yep, none there 04:15 < Cryp71c> But I've only reported a few things 04:15 < MarvinPA> the other project i use mantis on, it's a private database though, so all the testers have access to close resolved bugs once we've checked them 04:16 < MarvinPA> i guess here it does make sense do ask people to check their own bugs once they're resolved 04:16 <+due> Yeah, we go through eventually and mark resolved bugs as closed if nobody else has. 04:16 < MarvinPA> to ask* 04:27 <+due> Can we remember to re-wordwrap commit messages by others when pushing them? 04:28 <+due> DONE 04:28 <+due> HOORAY 04:33 <+due> I'm going to update CDO trunk builds as well, even though they just got done recently. 04:35 < CIA-81> due * r8ee56eafe02c /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/altar.des: Hopefully fix "Triggerable already removed" issues with burning trog altar. 04:44 < TGW> kilobyte: are you here? 04:49 -!- TGW is now known as TGWi 04:51 < Ashenzari> Tree tiles "improved" submission (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=520) by purge 04:57 < Cryp71c> !tell dpeg Not sure what's already being worked on (by Haran or others), but "Trim down monster descriptions" and "Highlighting important events" ideas. 04:57 < Henzell> Cryp71c: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 04:59 < Twinge> Cryptic: Clearly you should work on adding tons of new Xom stuff :) 04:59 < Twinge> (That is, all the stuff I was thinking about adding, until I looked at the code and had no idea how to procede :P) 05:00 <+due> xom stuff isn't that bad. 05:01 < Cryp71c> Twinge, lol 05:02 < Twinge> due: Nope, it's pretty good, but there's always room for more=) 05:03 < Cryp71c> Twinge, I wouldn't mind doing that, given I had some guidance to work off of. 05:03 < Twinge> "You open the door. The door slams shut in your face. You hear Xom stifling a chuckle." 05:03 < Cryp71c> from due or dpeg or whoever knows about the godcode 05:03 < Twinge> Nod. 05:04 <+due> Well, dpeg doesn't code. ;) 05:04 <+due> And I don't know any of the Xom code, you should probably contact jpeg, she did a lot of that code. 05:09 <+sorear> dpeg wrote the old shoals map generator 05:09 <+sorear> you know, the perfect circles one 05:12 <+due> Yeah. 05:12 <+due> He *can* code and has done before, but he doesn't do much coding for crawl. 05:35 -!- Iainuki_ [n=NoOne@unaffiliated/iainuki] has quit [] 05:40 -!- Timbermaw [n=riquez60@200.175.209.46.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit ["later!"] 05:43 < Cryp71c> !lastseen jpeg 05:44 < Cryp71c> .. isn't it !lastseen? 05:45 <+due> !seen, and jpeg doesn't use IRC. 05:45 < Henzell> Sorry due, that person is dead. 05:46 <+due> You'd be better to email ): 05:46 < Cryp71c> ...I could've sworn I saw her in here once... 05:46 <+due> *:) 05:46 <+due> Nope. 05:46 < Cryp71c> c-r-d or is her email on he wiki under her user? 05:48 <+due> You should be able to reply to one of her comits. 05:48 <+due> j-p-e-g@users.sourceforge.net 05:49 < Cryp71c> yep, found it. Thanks 05:50 < Cryp71c> so since dpeg doesn' code much, is he a coordinator of sorts for the grand *direction* crawl is going in for .6 and .7? Does anyone fulfil that niche? Obviously it seems as if most of even major implementations just go through the approval of the main devteam 05:50 <+due> He is the head designer. 05:51 <+due> He has the final say over everything. 05:57 <+due> I decided to go with swiftness for alligators. 06:00 < purge> when wearing the robe of clouds, the "you are standing in rain." messages can be a little annoying 06:00 < purge> because you walk through rain alot when just walking around 06:00 <+due> Yeah, they shouldn't stop autotravel. 06:01 < purge> they don't, just spam 06:01 -!- TGWi [n=TGW@c-68-61-239-31.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left ##crawl-dev [] 06:01 <+due> Ah. 06:02 <+due> Difficult, to be honet. 06:02 < purge> its not that bad i suppose 06:02 -!- stabwound [n=someone@node510.wl-a.pppoe.execulink.com] has quit [] 06:03 -!- stabwound [n=someone@node510.wl-a.pppoe.execulink.com] has joined ##crawl-dev 06:03 <+due> Heya, a stabwound! 06:06 < stabwound> what, where? 06:06 <+due> :) 06:08 <+due> Hey, this works pretty well for alligators. 06:09 <+due> Oooh, crocodiles are excellent. 06:15 -!- pointless_ [n=chatzill@ool-4576ec48.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]"] 06:22 -!- Cryp71c [i=Cryp71c@c-68-53-104-165.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:42 -!- ogaz [n=chatzill@adsl-76-198-70-175.dsl.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 07:04 -!- eith [n=eith@86-41-102-58-dynamic.b-ras2.lmk.limerick.eircom.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:04 <+due> sorear: Ping. 07:05 <+sorear> Pog. 07:06 <+due> sorear: :) I'm trying to limit how often alligators should cast swiftness on themselves, so they don't spam it; I was looking at storing you.num_turns in mons->number when they cast it, and checking against that in ms_waste_of_time. 07:06 <+due> But mon->number is an unsigned int, whereas you.num_turns is long. Obviously this is unsafe. 07:06 <+due> So, should I switch to using monster props instead? 07:08 <+due> (I was going to use move_energy and speed and the sixfirhy system, but it just looked odd.) 07:08 <+sorear> don't use ms_waste_of_time 07:08 <+due> No? 07:08 <+sorear> that's a horribly kludgey hack 07:09 <+due> Hm. 07:09 <+sorear> ms_waste_of_time should be for ... wastes of time 07:09 <+sorear> not *making* things impossible 07:09 <+due> Hm. 07:09 <+sorear> but telling them that it's impossible beforehand 07:09 <+due> Ah. 07:09 <+sorear> you could do both mons_spells(?) and ms_waste_of_time 07:09 <+sorear> but doing it only in the latter is confusing, wrong, and invites bugs 07:10 <+sorear> that said, I *would* just store the turn number 07:10 <+sorear> signed int can hold numbers up to 2 billion on all computers we care about 07:10 <+due> ah, so it's a safe conversion? 07:10 <+sorear> so what if alligators act odd in really long games :) 07:10 * due laughs. 07:10 <+due> Okay. 07:10 <+sorear> it's not /safe/, but it's safe enough 07:10 <+sorear> !lg * max=turn 07:10 < Henzell> 516492. Stabwound the Farming Skullcrusher (L27 MuSu), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, escaped with the Orb and 111 runes on 2008-03-09, with 9425283 points after 92568259 turns and 128:15:16. 07:11 <+sorear> 92 million turns 07:11 <+sorear> if anyone beats stabwound by a factor of 20, it's OK if alligators stop using swiftness 07:11 * due laughs. 07:11 <+sorear> especially now that we have the OOD clock 07:11 <+due> Yeah. 07:11 <+sorear> and if someone decides to wait 2 billion turns in the temple with a mummy just to stop alligators 07:12 <+sorear> well, that's why we arm rax with a clue-bat 07:12 <+due> :D 07:12 <+due> The mechanism? It *looks* cool. 07:12 <+due> I'm also limiting how long they're swift for, so every so often they put on a short burst of speed and eat you. 07:12 <+sorear> (personally I think we should make going over 2 billion turns an insta-death) 07:13 <+due> "Outside, the world ends. Sorry, but your quest for the Orb is now rather pointless. You die..." 07:13 <+sorear> (it would simplify the code a lot, because currently the code is terrified of storing turncounts and just uses relative time everywhere) 07:14 <+sorear> if a turn is a standard D&D turn, 2 billion turns equals 680 years 07:14 <+due> "You die ... of old age." 07:15 -!- Kyrris [n=1@c-67-186-34-100.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 07:17 <+due> sorear: Oh, do you know anything about the foe choosing code? I had a quick look through it, as alligators are supposed to be timid, but I understood neither heads nor tails or it. 07:18 <+sorear> very little 07:18 <+due> I might pester the snark which is green instead, then. 07:26 -!- haranp [n=haranp@di8-37132.dialin.huji.ac.il] has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v haranp] by ChanServ 07:26 <+due> haranp! Heya. 07:26 <+haranp> Hi 07:26 <+haranp> How do I move my current set of changes to a branch? haven't run commit yet 07:27 <+due> Um, git checkout -b , then commit them? 07:27 <+due> You might have to stash them first. 07:27 <+haranp> I'll need a tiles person to look over my changes because they seem to have made targetting very very slow on tiles 07:28 <+due> :( 07:28 <+due> haranp, do you know anything about how monsters choose a foe? 07:28 <+haranp> not much 07:28 <+due> Bah. 07:29 <+due> Alligators are not supposed to attack unless you get close (say, within 5 squares), or attack them (ranged). 07:31 -!- Mu_ [i=Mu@cpc14-live9-0-0-cust109.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##crawl-dev 07:31 <+haranp> I'm not much help there 07:32 <+due> Yeah, will pester Darshan. 07:32 <+due> Mu_! 07:32 <+due> Mu_: Feature freeze on Wizllabs for possible early 0.6 release. 07:32 < Mu_> what's that mean 07:32 < Mu_> the log still isn't logging 07:33 <+due> There's mild talk of them releasing 0.6 early (in four or so weeks). 07:33 < Mu_> does that mean we can't make new wizlabs 07:33 <+due> We can 07:33 <+due> Just can't merge them to 0.6 07:33 <+due> And we need to finish off what we've got for release! 07:34 <+due> Okay, brb. 07:34 -!- by [n=rob@g225111091.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v by] by ChanServ 07:34 <+by> hello 07:35 < Mu_> hi by 07:36 -!- by [n=rob@g225111091.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 07:38 < Mu_> due i started makin a cekugob but i still sometimes get disconnected features even when i do teh validate thing 07:39 -!- by [n=rob@g225111091.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined ##crawl-dev 07:39 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v by] by ChanServ 07:39 < Mu_> probably because i'm using subvaults (??) 07:41 -!- ogaz_ [n=chatzill@c-67-187-226-4.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 07:42 -!- ogaz [n=chatzill@adsl-76-198-70-175.dsl.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 07:45 -!- ogaz_ [n=chatzill@c-67-187-226-4.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left ##crawl-dev [] 07:46 -!- ogaz [n=chatzill@c-67-187-226-4.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 07:51 <+by> greensnark: any news on ranged attacks + submerged creatures? should I push the beam.cc changes? 07:52 <+haranp> how do I pull in master changes on a branch? git pull [what] ? 07:52 <+by> haranp: hi; dpeg said you were working on the targetting prompts: feel free to change message.cc as required 07:52 <+by> git merge master 07:52 <+haranp> by: message.cc is unchanged 07:52 <+by> or 07:52 <+by> git rebase master 07:52 <+due> Mu_: Hm, should be able to fix that up 07:53 <+due> I'm trying to decide. Should alligators be speed 9 or 10 by default? 07:53 <+due> 9 makes them quite slow and easy to escape. 07:53 <+haranp> Current branch direction-rewrite is up to date. 07:53 <+by> ok; it seemed there might be some need to overwrite parts of an old prompt 07:53 <+haranp> but I'm only synced up to decb6b25c768d8e4ea0a2af37e5b4c699d86b036 07:54 <+due> Is master up to date? 07:54 <+haranp> no 07:54 <+by> I guess "git merge origin/master" might work better 07:54 <+haranp> aha 07:54 <+by> I'd assumed that local branch master was updated 07:56 <+due> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crocnest.JPG Soon, soon! 08:02 <+haranp> ok, now how do I push? 08:02 < CIA-81> by * re64a17d5a264 /crawl-ref/source/spells2.cc: Don't abort vampiric draining freely if no monster present. 08:02 < CIA-81> by * rf62438ab20fe /crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: Rename _mons_submerged_in_water to _mons_exposed_in_water. 08:03 < CIA-81> by * rc4f5129ce7d5 /crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Don't allow beams to affect submerged monsters. 08:03 < CIA-81> by * r667e710dbaad /crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: Never target submerged monsters. 08:03 < CIA-81> by * rbe1ab9342e8b /crawl-ref/source/spells2.cc: Disallow Freeze and Vampiric Draining from affecting submerged monsters. 08:03 <+due> Niiice. 08:04 < ogaz> :( 08:08 <+by> ogaz: ? 08:08 <+haranp> when doing "git push" it says "everything up-to-date" 08:08 <+by> git push origin direction-rewrite:direction-rewrite 08:08 <+haranp> this will push branch direction-rewrite? 08:08 <+by> though there must be an easier way to do that? 08:08 < ogaz> by: I dislike fish, so I always go out of my way to kill them 08:09 < ogaz> This change is probably a good thing, though 08:09 <+haranp> fatal: Invalid revision range 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..a537b5aa969f5f3a8fcead227a8553333813ceba 08:09 <+by> that's just the hook scripts failing 08:10 <+haranp> so was it pushed? the mail seems suspicously short 08:10 <+by> probably; the hooks don't handle branching well 08:10 <+due> Yes. 08:10 <+haranp> yay :) 08:11 <+due> haranp: Yep, worked, I just checked it out. 08:11 <+haranp> ok, now the tiles people need to tell me why it's so bloody slow 08:12 <+due> :) 08:12 <+haranp> fatal: Invalid revision range 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..a537b5aa969f5f3a8fcead227a8553333813ceba 08:12 <+haranp> sorry, mispaste 08:13 <+haranp> ok, off for a hike 08:13 -!- haranp [n=haranp@di8-37132.dialin.huji.ac.il] has quit ["leaving"] 08:13 <+due> See ya :) 08:13 < Twinge> ogaz: Fish shouldn't submerge much at all anymore from waht I've heard 08:13 <+due> Twinge: They will. 08:14 <+due> I haven't done any changes to the submerge code yet. 08:14 < Twinge> Ah. 08:15 < Twinge> soonish, then 08:16 <+due> They will submerge, just not to flee. 08:16 < ogaz> Will this also stop people from magic darting trapdoor spiders to death? 08:16 <+due> Yes. 08:19 < Kyrris> Will this have a very large impact on swamp? 08:19 <+due> Yes. 08:20 <+due> The change I made last night will have a bigger impact. 08:20 <+due> No water attack bonus. 08:20 < Kyrris> Hm. 08:21 < Kyrris> More surprises, less incentive to futz with every single enemy, less risk, more reward for performance. 08:21 < ogaz> Including for swamp worms? 08:21 < Kyrris> Should bring the annoyance level way down, then. 08:21 <+due> ogaz: Anything. 08:22 < Kyrris> Cool. I like fish being less of a headache. 08:26 <+due> Bah, this change means updating minor version. 08:28 < ogaz> Are swamp worms still a threat after the change? 08:30 <+by> !tell haranp New direction() in tiles isn't slow for me at all -- are you just experiencing general tiles slowness? 08:30 < Henzell> by: OK, I'll let haranp know. 08:30 <+by> !tell haranp Also hurray for direction() cleanup. 08:30 < Henzell> by: OK, I'll let haranp know. 08:35 <+due> Yees, hurray! 08:56 < Napkin> Moin! 08:59 <+due> Bah 08:59 <+due> How do I add a new cloud type and keep it sane? 08:59 <+due> Incremenet CLOUD_X by one if it's below the new type? 09:00 <+by> morning Napkin 09:00 < Napkin> Good morning, Rob :) 09:01 <+by> due: don't understand the question 09:01 <+due> by: I'm adding a new cloud type (ink, for kraken), but as it's opaque, it has to go into the middle of the cloud enum. 09:02 <+due> by: If I bump minor version, and then check against that for all loaded clouds that havebeen shifted, and increment them by one, it should be safe, yes? 09:02 <+sorear> due: don't bother with minor versions for this 09:02 <+due> Bump major instead? 09:02 <+sorear> due: loading an old game will have the wrong cloud types. That's OK, because clouds are temporary 09:02 <+due> Ah, true. 09:08 < Napkin> erm... is this really the proper tile? http://crawl.develz.org/info/?q=orb%20guardian 09:10 <+due> Yes. 09:10 <+due> It's a jelly-baba, surprise! 09:10 * due munches. 09:11 <+due> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jelly_baby <-- Do you get them outside of the UK/australia? 09:11 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+o due] by ChanServ 09:11 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [-o due] by due 09:11 <+due> Wrong hannel. 09:13 -!- MarvinPA-2 [n=marvin@cpc2-aztw19-0-0-cust376.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14 <+due> Heya MarvinPA-2. 09:15 < MarvinPA-2> hallo 09:15 -!- Vandal [i=Incite@cpe-75-185-204-99.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 09:16 -!- MarvinPA [n=marvin@cpc2-aztw19-0-0-cust376.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:16 -!- MarvinPA-2 is now known as MarvinPA 09:23 -!- Jampy [n=Jampy@c-67-168-196-117.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:44 -!- henryci [n=henry@c-71-232-165-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 09:48 <+due> Hm. 09:48 <+due> We should probably dump jellyfish and make them interesting. 09:52 < Eronarn> due: jellyfish could be made a shoals-only thing that gets washed up /w the tide 09:52 < Eronarn> in large numbers 09:53 <+due> Oooh, excellent idea 09:53 <+due> but I was thinking splitting to two new jellies and dumping the current one; 09:53 <+due> blue bottle and irukandji. 09:53 <+due> blue bottles levitate above the water 09:53 <+due> and irukandji are absolutely tiny and should have a curare sting. 09:55 <+due> I think we should just do that. 09:57 < Eronarn> disagree with curare, they're too cool IRL to have such a boring in-game effect 09:57 <+due> Then why do you think? 09:58 < Eronarn> i think that we shouldn't add more water monsters unless they're really interesting, or can come out of the water in some way 09:58 <+due> I'm saying get rid of the current boring jellyfish and make them interesting. 09:59 < Eronarn> i don't think that what would pass for an interesting land monster is enough on water monsters, tbh 09:59 < Eronarn> it just seems like a change for the same of a change - and this is coming from me, i *like* change 10:00 <+due> A jellyfish that can fly is boring? 10:00 < Eronarn> i'm certainly not going to complain if you make jellies a bit more interesting but i don't think it will actually result in them being... interesting 10:00 <+due> They just have to provide an iteresting threat. 10:00 <+due> Rather than "eh, it's a jellyfish". 10:00 < Eronarn> oh, i'm in favor of flying jellyfish - i thought you meant like, at the surface of the water 10:00 < Eronarn> (as in, can't submerge) 10:02 <+due> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Man_o%27_War#Structure 10:02 <+due> they have to submerge to live. 10:02 <+due> The portuguese man o' war is seriously my favourite jellyfish. It's just really cool. 10:02 <+due> Irukandji are great, sure. 10:03 < Eronarn> i'm partial to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaucus_atlanticus :) 10:04 <+due> That's pretty cool, too. 10:06 < Twinge> How is number of chunks determined btw? If it can be customized, Jellyfish (whatever type they turn into) shouldn't make so many chunks 10:06 <+due> They're probalbly "giant jellyfish" at the minute. 10:06 <+sorear> ZAngband has the portuguese man o' war 10:07 <+sorear> Twinge: it's a function of corpse mass 10:07 <+due> Ooh, does it? 10:07 <+sorear> Yes, they have an instadeath melee attack 10:07 <+sorear> Not fun at all 10:07 <+due> Ah 10:08 <+sorear> jellyfish are currently listed at twice the weight of humans 10:08 < Eronarn> due: what about temporarily just removing jellyfish, adding flying jellyfish, leaving the design space open for when water monsters are revisited 10:08 <+due> That... needs to fix. 10:08 <+due> *needs to be fixed. 10:08 < Eronarn> so many monster weights need to be fixed, anyways 10:08 < Eronarn> and sizes 10:08 <+due> I should probably push alligators, but I'm loath to do so at the minute... 10:08 <+sorear> as heavy as hippogriffs 10:08 < Eronarn> it's not really worth worrying about 10:08 <+due> That's a big jellyfish. 10:09 <+due> Should I push alligators even withoout the attitude tweaks/ 10:09 <+due> greensnark, greensnark, greensnark! 10:12 <+due> Hm. 10:15 < Twinge> I guess I could look at mob weights a bit at some point maybe 10:18 < Eronarn> i'd look through it but it's really not a top priority so 10:20 < Twinge> Eronarn: It's plain text and something that I can both read and edit without any external help -- there's a fairly limited number of things that fall into that category, hehe 10:22 < Eronarn> Twinge: did i tell you about the approach i want to do for doing it? 10:25 <+due> Hm. 10:30 <+due> Hm, okay, ink works. 10:32 <+due> Well, ink cloud works. 10:32 < Eronarn> but what about magic markers 10:34 <+due> Oh hey, it works really well. 10:35 <+due> Anyone want to see? 10:37 < Twinge> Eronarn: No. 10:38 * due fetches 2cc of mouse blood, dribbly candles, and some sticks. 10:39 -!- Ero_ [n=ero@ip72-192-30-30.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40 -!- syllogism [i=syllogis@85-131-29-172.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40 -!- Jampy [n=Jampy@c-67-168-196-117.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41 < Jampy> hey napkin you there? 10:41 < Napkin> Hi Jampy - what's up? 10:46 < Twinge> Oh, d'oh - ##crawl is still +R 10:46 <+due> elly: Can you drop +R in ##crawl? 10:48 <+due> Okay 10:48 <+due> I'm termcasting 10:49 <+due> Bah. 10:49 <+sorear> <3 Cute 10:49 <+sorear> Purple plush kraken of lov 10:49 <+due> Yes. <3 10:49 <+due> What do we think of the ink? 10:49 <+due> The problem is that it won't leave the tentacles, who also won't run away. 10:49 <+due> So it's kinda annoying. 10:50 <+sorear> tentacular embrace is a two-way street... 10:50 <+due> Now, it looks better on # than on no glyph. 10:50 <+due> Does anyone want to see it on no glyph? (which is what David asked for) 10:50 <+sorear> no glyph? 10:50 <+due> The cloud 10:50 <+sorear> the rest of the map is shifted to the left to fill the hole in reality? 10:51 <+due> :) 10:51 <+due> Precisely. 10:51 <+sorear> NO. 10:51 < MarvinPA> that totally be should be a lugonu ability 10:51 < MarvinPA> :P 10:51 <+due> No to the glyphless ink? 10:51 < Mu_> i like no glyph 10:51 <+sorear> Holey reality 10:52 <+due> Oh 10:52 <+due> I like no glyph, but it's kinda difficult to see what's ink and what's not. 10:52 <+due> (Ink and out-of-LOS). 10:52 <+sorear> I'm for # 10:52 <+due> Okay, let's go wit #. 10:52 <+due> Okay... 10:53 <+due> Fleeing kraken's tentacles should also flee. 10:55 <+due> Okay, back in a bit. 11:05 * due back. 11:06 < Napkin> wb! 11:06 <+due> Hiya Napkin! 11:06 < Napkin> can tentacles be targetted now? 11:06 <+due> I'm not sure 11:06 <+due> No :( 11:07 < Napkin> it was a bit cumbersome to have to press Z and target them manually 11:12 -!- ogaz [n=chatzill@c-67-187-226-4.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:16 <+due> I love the effect. 11:16 <+due> But the tentacles need to flee as wlel. 11:17 -!- Jampy [n=Jampy@c-67-168-196-117.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:23 <+due> Does mag_immune mean a monster will never flee? 11:24 <+sorear> no 11:24 <+due> Hm. 11:24 <+due> Eh, back in a bit. 11:31 -!- dexap is now known as paxed 11:32 < Twinge> Eronarn: What was your weight approach? 11:35 * due attempts the rite of greensnark summoning once more. 11:39 <+greensnark> Yo 11:39 <+greensnark> "So you thought you could elude me. Fool!" 11:40 <+due> hooray, greensnark! 11:41 <+due> greensnark: If I push alligators, can you make them timid? 11:41 <+due> As in, they only acquire a foe if attacked by that foe, or if approached more than 4 or so squares? 11:41 <+greensnark> I can't get to it right now, but yes, push the change and I'll do it eventually 11:42 <+due> Awesome. 11:42 <+due> I've no idea how to do it. 11:42 <+due> But they're awesome! I went with swiftness. 11:42 <+greensnark> Neither do I, but I can poke around :P 11:43 <+due> You have a higher chance of success. 11:43 <+due> I managed to get it stuck in an endless loop. 11:43 < cbus> morning 11:44 <+due> Heya cbus. 11:45 <+greensnark> Crazy Swedes waking up at noon 11:45 <+greensnark> :P 11:48 <+due> Okay, kraken + ink? awesome. 11:48 <+due> greensnark: Want me to start termcasting again so you can see it? 11:48 <+greensnark> due: Not right now :/ 11:48 <+due> Okay. 11:49 <+due> It doesn't always work, but when it does, it's awesome. 11:50 <+greensnark> Apparently someone saw the flame cloud on water effect and got terrified by the amount of steam :P 11:50 <+due> Hehe, yeah. 11:51 < cbus> greensnark, nah, was up at 10 11:51 < cbus> and a bit at 7 11:51 < st_> due: can I see? 11:52 <+due> st_: Sure 11:52 <+due> st_: See it? 11:52 < st_> nice 11:57 <+due> Okay, I think that's enough futzing. 12:00 <+greensnark> Miaow 12:00 <+greensnark> Call ees done 12:01 <+due> Hooray 12:01 <+due> I am just checking something on alligators, then I'll push 12:02 <+due> Excellent, patrolling alligators work. 12:03 <+due> Puuuush 12:05 < CIA-81> due * rd619ec97ac10 /crawl-ref/source/ (18 files in 8 dirs): Add (rename) crocodiles and alligators. 12:05 < CIA-81> due * r9ea65f561297 /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/ (branches/volcano.des portals/volcano.des): Move volcano.des to the right folder, spellcheck. 12:05 < CIA-81> due * rbc4a1481e323 /crawl-ref/source/ (mgen_enum.h mon-pick.cc mon-place.cc): Let alligators spawn regularly in Swamp. 12:05 < CIA-81> due * r21cb4595aaee /crawl-ref/source/ (12 files): Kraken no longer submerge while fleeing, but squirt clouds of ink. 12:05 < CIA-81> due * r7d59d745cd33 /crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: Alligators now generate as patrolling, unless they're in a band. 12:05 <+greensnark> Rock band alligators 12:06 <+greensnark> What instrument would they play? 12:06 <+greensnark> The trombone? 12:06 <+due> Trombone! 12:06 < Mu_> can someone -R ##crawl 12:06 <+greensnark> due has ops there, right? 12:07 <+due> Nope 12:07 <+due> Napkin: Can you set mode -R in ##crawl? 12:09 <+greensnark> Saturday morning, nto a good time for a Napking sighting :P 12:09 <+due> He was around... two hours ago. 12:09 <+greensnark> His morning starts at approx 5pm his local time on Saturdays, I thought :P 12:09 <+due> True 12:15 -!- Ero_ [n=ero@ip72-192-30-30.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:20 < Napkin> huh`? 12:20 < Napkin> :-P 12:21 <+due> greensnark: Will you be able to do a couple of paragraphs of write up onn the OOD changes? 12:21 <+due> I decided that "Why, isn't that ood?" is the perfect post title. 12:21 <+greensnark> Nooooooo 12:21 <+due> :( 12:21 <+due> I don't understand them! I just hand-waved through them on the play-testing post. 12:22 <+greensnark> I can put it on the wiki, but I want players to be pleasantly surprised :P 12:22 <+due> Fiine. 12:22 <+greensnark> It's pretty simple though 12:23 <+greensnark> The game wants a monster for depth X 12:23 <+greensnark> It sometimes applies a moderate fuzz to the level X, up to +7 12:23 <+greensnark> And it occasionally decides it wants a super OOD, and adds up to +27 to (X+fuzz) 12:23 <+due> !lg * kaux=~of flame of flame 12:23 < Henzell> 5. nmf the Magician (L6 DEEE), worshipper of Vehumet, shot by a centaur (arrow of flame of flame) on D:5 on 2010-01-21, with 748 points after 6554 turns and 0:20:53. 12:23 * due trying to fix this now. 12:23 <+greensnark> And then it picks a monster appropriate for the depth (X+fuzz+superoodfuzz) 12:24 <+due> Ahh. 12:24 <+due> I think I knew that! 12:25 <+greensnark> The OOD changes make it more likely that the moderate and super OOD increments will be applied with time spent after 3k turns 12:25 -!- hashc [n=hash@adsl-68-76-123-64.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 12:25 <+greensnark> Spent on level, i.e. 12:25 <+due> Okay. 12:25 <+greensnark> And in the other direction, they make monster respawns less likely as time goes on 12:25 <+due> But more and more likely as the number approaches 9k turns? 12:25 <+due> So, spawns are less likely, but those that do spawn are more likely to be ood? 12:25 <+greensnark> So you will get fewer higher quality respawns, but the supply will dry up completely after 15k turns 12:25 <+greensnark> Yes 12:25 <+due> Awesome. 12:27 <+due> Aw, nobody wanted to watch my furious grepping? 12:27 <+due> Gah. 12:28 < st_> I switched over to csplat :( 12:28 <+greensnark> !lg * splat Shoal 12:28 < Henzell> 1. trucutru the Eclecticist (L22 HuWz), worshipper of Vehumet, blasted by a merfolk aquamancer (great wave of water) on Shoal:5 on 2010-01-05, with 250081 points after 70341 turns and 8:24:24. 12:28 <+due> That's okay. 12:28 <+greensnark> <3 12:29 <+greensnark> Adeon fetched the Shoal rune in a remarkably hilarious raid yesterday 12:29 < syllogism> why is that the only Shoal "Splat" 12:29 <+greensnark> splat = high level 12:29 <+greensnark> !lg * Shoal max=xl 12:29 < Henzell> 76. trucutru the Eclecticist (L22 HuWz), worshipper of Vehumet, blasted by a merfolk aquamancer (great wave of water) on Shoal:5 on 2010-01-05, with 250081 points after 70341 turns and 8:24:24. 12:29 <+greensnark> !lg * Shoal max=xl -2 12:29 < Henzell> 75. LordSloth the Swashbuckler (L19 MfSt), worshipper of Okawaru, mangled by a merfolk (a +0,+0 trident) (led by a merfolk javelineer) on Shoal:2 on 2010-01-20, with 208850 points after 62056 turns and 6:39:38. 12:30 <+greensnark> High level players don't die in SHoals :P 12:30 -!- henryci [n=henry@c-71-232-165-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:30 < syllogism> !lg * Splat Swamp 12:30 < Henzell> 53. Solvent the Carver (L15 HuAE), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, blasted by Norris (divine providence) on Swamp:5 on 2010-01-16, with 61964 points after 39124 turns and 3:08:58. 12:30 <+greensnark> splat exemptions for fun uniques there 12:30 <+due> !lg * Donald 12:30 < Henzell> Malformed argument: Donald 12:30 <+greensnark> It relaxes the xl rules for Norris and Xtahua and stuff :P 12:30 <+due> !lg * killer=Donald 12:30 < Henzell> 11. saren the Carver (L10 HEPa), worshipper of The Shining One, demolished by Donald (a +3,+5 long sword of flaming) on Orc:1 on 2010-01-22, with 5319 points after 10777 turns and 0:57:36. 12:31 <+due> Still oly one. 12:31 <+greensnark> Ohh due 12:31 <+due> Maybe he needs another buff? 12:31 <+greensnark> Adeon met Donald and confused him 12:31 <+due> Oooh 12:31 <+due> Hehe. 12:31 <+greensnark> And Donald quacked <3 <3 <3 12:31 <+due> I KNOW 12:31 <+due> I got that one in via the "wall of text" feat. 12:31 <+greensnark> Useful feat :P 12:32 <+greensnark> syllogism: You should look at that Adeon rune :P 12:32 <+due> Push two thousand lines of Donald text, include a few questionnable ones... 12:32 < syllogism> the what 12:32 <+greensnark> !lm Adeon rune=barnacled -tv:<2:>2 12:32 -!- Zaba_ [n=zaba@about/goats/billygoat/zaba] has joined ##crawl-dev 12:32 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v Zaba_] by ChanServ 12:32 <+greensnark> Something about that ttyrec does massacre FooTV though 12:32 < Henzell> 1. AdeonTwo, XL24 OgSt, T:99051 (milestone) requested for FooTV. 12:33 <+due> ARGH THIS DRIVES ME CRAZY 12:33 * greensnark hands due a snow-cone. 12:33 < Mu_> what you doin 12:34 <+greensnark> Mu_: The validate thing doesn't work for subvaults yet, sorry 12:34 -!- Zaba [n=zaba@about/goats/billygoat/zaba] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:34 < Mu_> ;,( 12:34 <+greensnark> And my subvault fu was insufficiently strong to fix it last night 12:34 <+greensnark> I should look at it again 12:34 < Mu_> i would be grateful 12:34 <+due> greensnark: It's just the kaux line for HEnzell that's borked, and I have o idea how to work it. 12:34 <+greensnark> Looking at the subvault code, one feels a deep, prayerful respect for Enne who wrote it :) 12:34 <+due> Oh, good, I thought that might've been the case. 12:34 <+due> Enne is absolutely amazing. 12:34 <+due> Where does it pick the kaux line from? 12:34 <+greensnark> Adeon game is on 12:34 <+greensnark> FooTV <3 12:35 <+due> greensnark: Do you know where the kaux line is fetched frm? I can't work it out. 12:35 < syllogism> nice 12:36 <+due> ... omfg 12:36 <+due> That's... 12:37 <+due> !killsby sea snake 12:37 < Henzell> No games for * (ckiller=sea snake). 12:37 <+due> ... wow. 12:38 <+due> Really wow. 12:38 <+greensnark> He should have stayed and fought the kraken :P 12:38 <+greensnark> due: kaux line for what? 12:39 <+due> !lg * kaux=~of flame of flame 12:39 < Henzell> 5. nmf the Magician (L6 DEEE), worshipper of Vehumet, shot by a centaur (arrow of flame of flame) on D:5 on 2010-01-21, with 748 points after 6554 turns and 0:20:53. 12:39 <+greensnark> I believe that's the beam's name or such 12:39 < Mu_> any idea why crawl hangs whenever i bring up the shift-x map? :p 12:39 <+due> greensnark: The actual death line is correct, but the kaux line that Henzell uses it somehow stacking another "of flame" on. 12:39 <+greensnark> Mu_: Someone else reported an X bug 12:39 <+greensnark> Is it hanging reliably? That save would be handy 12:40 < cbus> hmm, nice 12:40 < Mu_> i just pulled and recompiled and it's every character i make as soon as i bring up the map 12:40 <+greensnark> due: Look at beam.cc bolt::internal_ouch 12:40 < cbus> vampiric GSC 12:40 <+greensnark> Mu_: OS, terminal size? 12:40 < cbus> too bad its the same issue as distortion based blunt weapons (that you have to pay a steep price EVERY time you have to switch to butcher 12:40 < Mu_> vista, default 12:41 <+greensnark> I think syllogism also had this crash 12:41 < cbus> (one issue with the new vampiric behaviour) 12:41 <+greensnark> Might be a messagewindow interaction with Windows libs 12:41 <+greensnark> syllogism: Did you file a bug for the X crash? 12:41 <+due> greensnark: Ah, interesting, thanks. 12:42 <+due> What's the DGL build flag again? I cannot remember. 12:42 < cbus> greensnark, was that considered in the vampiric brand change? 12:42 <+due> USE_DGAMELAUNCH? 12:43 <+due> Oh, it is, cool. 12:43 <+greensnark> cbus: I didn't realise there was a change? 12:43 < cbus> greensnark, there was, you pay a price on wield now 12:44 <+greensnark> Oh, I wasn't following that discussion 12:44 < syllogism> greensnark: No 12:44 <+due> That was a while back. 12:44 < cbus> It sticks to your hand! b - the cursed giant spiked club of Ragnarok (weapon) {god gift, vamp} 12:44 < cbus> so trog gives cursed weapons? 12:45 < syllogism> you don't really need a save, it hangs every game 12:45 < syllogism> every time 12:46 <+greensnark> Hang or crash? 12:46 < syllogism> crash 12:46 <+due> Hey, cool. 12:46 <+greensnark> Let me open up the VM of doom 12:46 <+due> Not the VM!!! Oh god, no! 12:46 <+greensnark> One thing I have to say for Win 7, it's pretty 12:47 <+greensnark> Although I guess Vista was too, but I didn't look at Vista much 12:47 < cbus> should I post a BR or FR about the vamp change and blunt weapons? 12:47 < cbus> greensnark, now you have to be satiated to use a vamp weapon and you get a cost on wield and nothing else 12:47 <+greensnark> Oh 12:47 <+due> cbus: it would be an FR, there is no bug. 12:47 < cbus> due, well the bug is that vamp weapons are useless on blunt weapons 12:47 < cbus> vamp brand 12:48 < cbus> its a game design bug :) 12:48 <+due> No 12:48 <+due> It is a feature request. 12:48 <+due> There is no bug. 12:48 <+greensnark> Do vampiric weapons still feed the player? 12:48 <+due> :p 12:48 <+due> greensnark: Yes. 12:48 <+greensnark> Sounds a little too strong for them to feed and heal the player and cost no nutrition 12:48 <+greensnark> On edged weapons 12:49 <+due> The hit is like 4000 nutrition. 12:49 <+greensnark> Yes, but one time 12:49 <+greensnark> You don't ever have to unwield an edged vamp weapon 12:49 <+due> Maybe I'm wrong about satiation the. 12:49 <+greensnark> And vampiric weapons are very very strong 12:49 <+due> *the. 12:49 <+due> dpeg and sorear had the originaal idea ad hammered it out. 12:50 <+due> It seemed relatively solid. 12:50 <+greensnark> Meh, I seem to have killed my vmware network services :P 12:50 <+due> :D 12:52 <+greensnark> I accidentally powered off my switch yesterday, and vmware's nat service apparently will respond to dhcp requests on 192.168.1.0/24 12:53 <+greensnark> And I was trying to connect to my DSL modem's web interface to see wtf was going on, and instead I was connecting back to my desktop's web server 12:53 <+greensnark> Much confusion and hilarity later I rage-killed vmware' 12:53 <+greensnark> :P 12:55 <+due> Sounds like fun. 12:56 <+greensnark> It's all these cheap power strips 12:56 <+greensnark> Just moving the table shook the switch's power plug loose :P 12:56 <+due> Bah. 12:57 < Napkin> oops: 12:57 <+greensnark> Napking! 12:57 < Napkin> -You climb downwards. 12:57 < Napkin> mlua error: /crawl-svn-577f5d3/dat/clua/lm_trig.lua:664: Too many vault items for item_pickup 12:57 < Napkin> You sense a powerful magical force warping space. 12:57 < Napkin> when I entered Zot5 12:57 <+greensnark> Hm 12:57 < Napkin> Hi greensnark :D 12:57 <+due> Bah. 12:57 <+due> I've seen that happen before. 12:57 <+due> That's when there's mmoer than one item on the rune. 12:57 <+due> Or orb. 12:57 <+greensnark> Napkin: Sounds like picking up the orb may not re-enable teleport control on Zot:5 :P 12:57 <+due> Which really makes no sense. 12:58 <+due> and no, it won't. 12:58 < Napkin> oh? 12:58 <+greensnark> Yes, exercise caution 12:58 <+greensnark> Your game just got harder :) 12:58 < Napkin> should i recreate the level? 12:58 <+due> I need to fix those, shouldn't be auto. 12:58 < Napkin> ooohh.. nooooes! 12:58 <+due> Napkin: Might be a good idea. 12:58 <+greensnark> No, don't 12:58 < Napkin> seriously? 12:58 <+due> No? 12:58 <+greensnark> The zot map will get marked as used, so your new Zot:5 won't have an orbv 12:58 <+due> Nice. 12:58 < Napkin> oh - why so? 12:59 <+due> They're not allow_dup. 12:59 <+greensnark> The game cannot generate the zot map twice 12:59 < Napkin> isn't that contra-productive? 12:59 < Napkin> what if something happens.. like Eifel had no Snake:5 12:59 <+due> Wh am I not getting a highscore file? 12:59 <+due> is USE_DGAELAUNCH=y not enough/ 13:00 <+greensnark> In Eifel's case regenerating Snake:5 would have worked, becaus Snake:5 has an alternative 13:00 <+greensnark> The default for all maps is not to be reused, mainly so that random maps don't appear multiple times 13:01 < Napkin> oh, ok 13:01 <+due> Bah 13:01 < Napkin> so.. just play, right? 13:01 <+due> None of my deaths is making a hiscores file. :/ 13:01 <+greensnark> due: debug build? 13:01 <+due> Napkin, what is the option you need fo rthat? 13:01 <+due> Yes 13:01 < Napkin> hiscore file usually always gets created 13:01 <+greensnark> You have to enable a compile flag to score wizard characters 13:01 <+due> make debug -j2 USE_DGAMELAUNCH=y 13:01 <+due> Hm 13:02 < Napkin> no extra option 13:02 <+due> It worked earlier 13:02 <+due> When I was testing ghost kills 13:02 < Napkin> wish me luck! 13:02 <+due> Or... that wasn't deaths. 13:02 <+greensnark> Build with make debug EXTRA_FLAGS='-g -DSCORE_WIZARD_CHARACTERS' -j2 USE_DGAMELAUNCH=y 13:02 <+greensnark> Napkin: You have Haste, you really have to screw up on a giant scale to die :) 13:02 <+due> greensnark: <3 13:02 <+greensnark> When in doubt, Haste :) 13:02 < Napkin> screwing up is my second name :D 13:03 -!- dpeg [n=dpeg@dis.angband.pl] has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+o dpeg] by ChanServ 13:03 <+due> dpeg! 13:03 <@dpeg> I am not really here! 13:03 < Henzell> dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 13:03 <+due> dpeg: kraken and ink clouds are in! they look and work really well! 13:04 <+due> I'm not really here either. 13:04 <@dpeg> due: :) 13:04 <+greensnark> Yay ink 13:04 < Napkin> Moin david! 13:04 <@dpeg> Hi everyone! 13:04 * greensnark proposes that kraken write rude messages with ink on the beach 13:04 <+due> greensnark: +1. 13:04 <@dpeg> Do people think that the submerging proposal is good enough for 0.6? 13:04 <@dpeg> didn't look at the wiki 13:04 <+due> "Your momma was a squid, and your father stank of fish." 13:05 <@dpeg> greensnark: and here I thought the kraken would write sequels to Euclid's elements. 13:05 <+greensnark> dpeg: They could do that too 13:06 <+greensnark> kraken mathematician 13:06 <+due> Alligators are also in, as are the kraken changes. 13:06 <+greensnark> ^^ new monster 13:06 <+greensnark> I suppose they'd use octal 13:06 <+greensnark> They have eight tentacles, right? 13:06 <@dpeg> greensnark: is there any other base? 13:06 <@dpeg> octal for life 13:07 <+greensnark> octopode octal mathamancer 13:07 <+due> All your base are belong to 8. 13:07 <@dpeg> it is a shame that humans developed ten fingers 13:07 <+greensnark> Hey, I happen to like my little fingers 13:07 <@dpeg> should scrap that evolutional experiment and start afresh 13:07 <@dpeg> greensnark: 12 would be much better 13:07 <+greensnark> Oh, granted 13:07 <@dpeg> better primes 13:08 <+greensnark> I thought you were suggesting base 8 13:08 <@dpeg> no, I think 2*2*3 is very good 13:08 <+due> Not 3*3*3? 13:09 <@dpeg> due: no, not really :) 13:09 < Mu_> dpeg can you make ##crawl -R? :o 13:09 <@dpeg> life != Crawl, sadly 13:09 <+greensnark> cc1plus.exe: out of memory allocating 2503859700 bytes 13:09 <+greensnark> I think MinGW is trying to communicate here :P 13:09 <@dpeg> Mu_: don't think so, wouldn't also know how 13:09 <+greensnark> More prosaically, I think a compile check is failing :P 13:09 <+greensnark> Napkin can do -R on ##crawl 13:09 <@dpeg> greensnark: is that a program that adds one to a number? 13:09 <+greensnark> Napkin: Can you -R ##crawl 13:10 <@dpeg> Napkin? 13:10 < Napkin> sure 13:10 <+due> Rax is also around. 13:13 < Napkin> Hi Rax :) 13:13 <@rax> Hello! 13:13 <@rax> Sorry I did not get to the thing you wanted me to do, the last week has been maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaadness 13:13 <+due> Keskitalo! 13:13 < Napkin> hehe, no problem at all :) 13:14 <+due> Hm, I think "of flame of flame" is fixed. 13:14 <+due> !lg * kaux=o\ flame of flame 13:14 < Henzell> No games for * (kaux=o\ flame of flame). 13:14 <+due> !lg * kaux=of flame of flame 13:14 < Henzell> No games for * (kaux=of flame of flame). 13:14 <+greensnark> Meh, this MinGW compile failure has me snorgled 13:14 < Napkin> I am rsyncing learndb with my account for now - but I'd like other's that help building cdo versions and windows builds to do so too, one day - no hurry :) 13:14 < Napkin> ^^ rax 13:15 <@rax> *nods* 13:15 <+due> greensnark: Snorgled = you are about to go berserk? 13:15 < Napkin> enjoy your weekend then, rax :) sounds like you earned it :D 13:16 <+due> !lg * vmsg=~of flame of flame 13:16 < Henzell> 5. nmf the Magician (L6 DEEE), worshipper of Vehumet, shot by a centaur (arrow of flame of flame) on D:5 on 2010-01-21, with 748 points after 6554 turns and 0:20:53. 13:16 <+due> Hm. That makes no sense. 13:17 <@rax> Napkin: Well, I don't know about "earned," but "successfully crawled out of the wreckage of the week to enter" at least. :) 13:17 <+due> Napkin: Can I get that line out of the scorefile on CDO? 13:17 < Napkin> hehe 13:17 <+Keskitalo> due: Hey! 13:17 <+Keskitalo> I hereby announce a general "hey!" 13:17 <+due> Keskitalo: Crocoiles! I tried to recoloure the giant lizard tile, but it was a failure. 13:17 < Napkin> lol, due 13:17 < Napkin> Hey too! 13:18 <+Keskitalo> due: I have a vivid mental image of trying to apply spray paint. 13:18 <+due> Keskitalo: I lost a foot in the struggle. :/ 13:18 <+Keskitalo> Aw. 13:18 <+due> Napkin: As in, is there a sane way for me to get to the sore file on CDO so I can grep it to work out what the incorrect line is? 13:18 <+due> Or if tthere even is an incorrect line? 13:18 <+due> Oh, hang on. 13:19 <+due> Ahah! 13:20 <+due> ... Argh, so I never fixed the root properl. 13:21 < Napkin> of course, due 13:22 < Napkin> cd ~dgl/.. # there are the crawl versions and all score files readable for user crawl 13:23 <+greensnark> There's a convenient http URL as well 13:23 <+greensnark> Although I can never recall what it is offhand 13:23 < Napkin> oh, right - you could also go ~crawl/website/ 13:23 < Napkin> there are links to all score files 13:24 <+greensnark> Napkin: Has the Windows build run successfully recently? 13:24 <+greensnark> MinGW on Windows is dying with a complete fubar error message on spl-cast.cc :P 13:24 < Napkin> oh? yes, I think Eino built them yesterday 13:24 <+greensnark> Hm 13:24 < Napkin> lemme check 13:25 <+greensnark> I think Mu_ also built today 13:25 <@dpeg> can one of you crazy tiles people have a look in Haran's branch? 13:25 <+greensnark> So it's weird 13:25 <+greensnark> dpeg said the 'T' word 13:25 < Napkin> \o/ 13:25 < Napkin> -- Press RETURN to compile (0.6.0-a1-2629-g7d59d74) -- 13:25 <@dpeg> greensnark: I lost a sister to the tiles. 13:26 <@dpeg> I tell, sprites are a hard drug. There is no "I'll just have a look, I could quit every time". 13:26 <+greensnark> :P 13:29 <+Keskitalo> dpeg: :/ 13:29 <+Keskitalo> Poor Johanna. 13:30 * Napkin whispers: greensnark admitted to looking at the tiles on the knowledge bots website a lot! :> 13:30 <+greensnark> Learn thy enemy :P 13:30 < Napkin> haha 13:30 <+greensnark> That's aaaalll it was :P 13:30 < Napkin> CXX spl-book.o 13:30 < Napkin> CXX spl-cast.o 13:30 < Napkin> CXX spl-mis.o 13:30 <+Keskitalo> Mwahaha. 13:30 <+greensnark> I do not have a secret cache of uniques that I look at 13:30 <+greensnark> I specifically do not have a pinup of the Tiamat tile 13:30 <+greensnark> So get your minds out of the gutter, people 13:31 < Napkin> worked fine here, greensnark 13:31 <+greensnark> Napkin: Yeah, I think I have to upgrade my Mingw 13:31 <+greensnark> Napkin: Thanks for checking 13:32 < Napkin> I'm using now i686-pc-mingw32-gcc (GCC) 4.4.0 13:32 < Napkin> if that helps? no problem, greensnark 13:37 <+Keskitalo> due: I added the croc to the 0.6 tiles agenda (to Further improvement welcome) 13:37 <+due> Keskitalo: Thanks! 13:40 < Napkin> oh, another error 13:41 < Napkin> when I try to walk to the waypoint I created about 10 spaces away: mlua error: /crawl-svn-577f5d3/dat/clua/lm_trig.lua:189: Triggerable already activating 13:41 <+due> Sigh. 13:41 <+due> I'm sick of that hated error. 13:41 <+due> Are there any fog machines on the level? 13:42 < Napkin> i don't know - Zot5 - haven't seen any yet 13:42 <+due> Ah. 13:42 <+due> That'll be the Orb pickup. 13:42 < Napkin> ^G < works, ^G doesn't 13:42 <+due> Probably conected to that error. 14:02 <+due> Er 14:02 <+due> I've got arrows stuck in trees 14:02 <+due> is this normal 14:06 <+greensnark> syllogism: This spreadsheet is <3 14:07 <+greensnark> The new EV formula seems rather generous with EV in heavy armour 14:08 <+due> ... ARGH 14:09 <+due> So, not only did the setup_missile_beam auto-poison ammo, so does the mon-act code. 14:09 <+greensnark> Yay! Not? 14:09 <+greensnark> :P 14:10 <+due> And it doesn't ever use ammo_name, which is why we're still getting of flame of flame. 14:11 < Napkin> heh - there was a "remove curse" scroll on my orb! 14:11 <+due> That's infuriating. 14:11 <+greensnark> !won Napkin 14:11 * Napkin whistles innocently * 14:11 < Henzell> Napkin has not won in 337 games. 14:11 <+greensnark> Ohh 14:11 <+greensnark> We have a first winner on our hands 14:11 < Napkin> _my_ orb in a bit ;) 14:11 <+due> Ohhhh, oh. 14:11 * greensnark tunes in. 14:11 <+due> This I have to see :) 14:11 <+due> @whereis nappkin 14:11 < Gretell> No where information for nappkin (). 14:12 <+greensnark> Run run run 14:12 <+due> Run! Get out! Go! 14:14 <+due> Napkin: Rest on an up stair to regain MP. 14:16 <+due> Run! 14:18 <@dpeg> greensnark: comment on the AC wiki page, for what it's worth 14:18 <+due> dpeg: Napkin is winnig! 14:18 <@dpeg> and yes, syllogism spreadsheet is awesome 14:18 <@dpeg> due: bug! 14:18 <@dpeg> @whereis napkin 14:18 < Gretell> No where information for napkin (). 14:18 <@dpeg> !whereis napkin 14:18 <+due> @whereis Napkin 14:18 < Gretell> Napkin the Annihilator (L27 HEFE), a worshipper of Vehumet, is currently on D:8 after 210391 turns. 14:18 < Henzell> 337. Napkin the Firebug (L4 HEFE), slain by MarvinPA's ghost on D:3 on 2010-01-08, with 206 points after 5868 turns and 0:25:01. 14:18 <@dpeg> HEFE, very nice 14:19 <@dpeg> also HEFE = YEAST 14:19 <@dpeg> (or yeest?) 14:19 < Napkin> \o/ 14:20 <+greensnark> dpeg: It's not too bad, actually 14:20 <+greensnark> It sounds like it'll make medium armours actually worth considering 14:21 <+greensnark> Can we implement the new numbers or are we waiting to fix something? 14:21 <+due> I have to sleep. 14:21 <+due> I'm sick of this bloody "of flame of flame" bug. 14:21 <@dpeg> greensnark: we can implement them 14:21 <+greensnark> dpeg: Yay 14:21 <@dpeg> the only criticism left was about GDR 14:21 <+greensnark> due: I thought you fixed them? 14:21 <+greensnark> dpeg: You mean which formula to use, or criticism as in: it's still too bad/good 14:22 <@dpeg> but syllogism emphasised that it's good enough -- don't use the NewRR formula, it is way too complicated 14:22 <+due> greensnark: I did but then I didn't. the Issue is combining flaming arrows with a flaming bow. You currently get "glowing xyz of flame". 14:22 <@dpeg> simple == good 14:22 <+due> It should just be " of flame". 14:22 <@dpeg> <--- simple person 14:22 <@dpeg> due: the proper solution is to have no more branded launchers 14:22 <@dpeg> erm, brands of ammo and launchers should be disjoint 14:22 <+due> They're supposed to be. 14:23 <+due> The effect is purely textual. 14:23 <+due> And I can't track down to where the actual issue is. 14:24 <@dpeg> due: I mean that launchers of flame shouldn't exist at all :) 14:24 <+due> Hm. 14:24 <+due> No, I think that's too extreme. 14:24 <@dpeg> but we didn't discuss launcher brands properly 14:24 <+greensnark> So nobody's going to shoot me for putting in the new AC numbers, right? 14:24 <@dpeg> no 14:24 <+greensnark> Do the new numbers apply to monsters as well :P 14:24 <@dpeg> instead, throngs of Crawl groupies will come to your house 14:24 < cbus> re 14:24 <@dpeg> greensnark: I thought so! 14:25 <+greensnark> Ooh, that's going to make Dispater Mr. Invincible 14:25 < cbus> dpeg, the new vamp brand doesn't work that good on blunt (need to butcher with other weapons) 14:25 <@dpeg> greensnark: well, individual tweaks may be needed later on :) 14:25 <@dpeg> cbus: this is true 14:26 < cbus> dpeg, might be a strong word, but its useless for blunt :) 14:26 <+greensnark> Just kidding, monster stuff shouldn't be changed without careful review 14:26 < cbus> (same issue as distortion on blunt) 14:26 <+greensnark> In particular monsters will need some way to assign skills 14:26 < cbus> (unless you are a mummy) :) 14:26 < CIA-81> dolorous * r4afa74bf0698 /crawl-ref/source/mon-grow.cc: Make snapping turtles level up into alligator snapping turtles, and make 14:26 <+greensnark> And answering questions like "What is Dispater's base AC and armour skill?" will be tricky until that's been thought out 14:27 <+greensnark> Noooo! They're different animals :P 14:27 <+greensnark> Crawl evolution: kill stuff to morph species :) 14:27 < cbus> The ogre head splits into two heads 14:27 < cbus> :D 14:27 < cbus> The ogre becomes a two-headed ogre. 14:29 <@dpeg> greensnark: gotta tell dolorous 14:29 <@dpeg> due: awesome blog entry 14:29 <@dpeg> a lot of work, it shows 14:29 <+due> :) 14:29 <+due> It took me most of the day. 14:30 <+due> dpeg: We were talking about how many "giant" monsters theere are. 14:30 <+due> There's a percentage that could easily just have the "giant" token removed and remain interesting. 14:31 <+due> giant iguana --> iguana, at least. 14:31 < cbus> giant bat -> bat 14:31 < cbus> :D 14:31 <+due> There's 25 monsters that have "giant" in them, though some are actually hill giants/etc. 14:31 <+due> cbus: Agree. 14:32 < cbus> giant cockroach (ok maybe a normal cockroach might not be that frightening, but still{) 14:32 <+due> We can say in the description that they're huge. 14:32 <+greensnark> I think the deal is that these are small and pretty harmless monsters in real life 14:32 <@dpeg> yes 14:33 <+greensnark> "giant orc" would be irrelevant and inappropriate, but "giant ant" sounds reasonable to me 14:33 <+due> Yeah, I got that. 14:33 <+greensnark> I'd find a plain "ant" amusing :P 14:33 < cbus> "huge ant" 14:33 < cbus> "humongous ant" 14:33 < cbus> :D 14:33 <+due> I just feel the "giant" is overused. 14:33 <+due> "gargantuan cockroach". 14:33 <+greensnark> Oh, yes, we can use different adjectives 14:33 <+greensnark> I thought the proposal was to remove the adjectives altogether 14:34 <+due> No, no. 14:34 <+due> There are some cases where removal would work fine. 14:34 <+due> Others where it's odd. 14:34 <+greensnark> "high-BMI lizard" 14:34 < cbus> weight challenged lizard 14:34 < Mu_> unusual size 14:34 <+greensnark> Oh yes 14:34 <+greensnark> rodents of unusual size 14:35 <+greensnark> But I don't think they exist 14:35 <+due> http://www.colombiahotels.travel/wiki/images/d/d6/Giant_iguana.jpg 14:35 <+due> Iguanas are pretty big. 14:35 <+due> Well, they can be. 14:35 <+due> ... O_O http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/midorcas/animalphysiology/websites/2008/Belcher/marine-iguana.jpg 14:36 < Mu_> swamp drake 14:36 <+greensnark> Can we have walruses? :P 14:36 * greensnark <3 walruses 14:36 < cbus> btw 14:36 < cbus> GSC are pretty sweet 14:36 <+greensnark> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Noaa-walrus30.jpg 14:36 <+due> Walri can come later. 14:37 <+due> Okay, gonna sleep. 14:37 <@dpeg> nights Jude! 14:37 <+greensnark> Those teeth are soo cute 14:37 <+greensnark> Could have them in the ice cave 14:37 <+due> greensnark: <3 Thanks for looking into the alligator foe thing. 14:37 <@dpeg> due: sorry, once again: the anti-submerging ideas are okay? 14:38 <+due> dpeg: Yes, I am for them all. 14:38 <@dpeg> cool 14:38 <@dpeg> should get those into 0.6 14:38 <+due> dpeg: rob already started coding up some of them 14:38 <@dpeg> yay 14:38 <+greensnark> Hurray 14:38 <+due> dpeg: No atacking submerged creatures 14:38 <@dpeg> urgent: the shark bits :P 14:38 < cbus> get the tutrtles from diskworld 14:38 < cbus> :D 14:38 <+greensnark> So can we finish AC by tomorrow and release 0.6 by Valentine's day? :P 14:38 <@dpeg> yes 14:38 <@dpeg> only need to wait for henryci's patch 14:38 <+due> I have a short to-do list... 14:39 <+due> Finish the d-items for Troves 14:39 <+due> Which is basically just the few wrapper functions I need to identify items properly 14:39 * greensnark gives due adrenaline injections. 14:39 <@dpeg> greensnark: Valentine's day is Oct 7, right? 14:39 <+due> The blasted of-flame-of-flame deaths... 14:39 <+due> greensnark is doing alligator foes. :D 14:39 <@dpeg> greensnark: also, why do you know? 14:39 <+greensnark> These germans are crazy :P 14:39 <+due> And the wizlab cleanup. 14:39 <@dpeg> Fuck the Valentines! 14:39 < Mu_> wizlab cleanup, best cleanup 14:40 < cbus> hmm, do poisonous needles not spawn in stacks larger than 5-6 anymore? 14:40 <@dpeg> yes 14:40 <+due> cbus: Nope. 14:40 < cbus> hmm 14:40 < cbus> doh *drop blowgun* 14:40 <@dpeg> they're better now 14:40 <+greensnark> due: Could allow needles to spawn in their original quantities 14:40 < cbus> better? 14:40 <+greensnark> Poisoned darts are much better 14:40 <+due> greensnark: Hm. 14:40 <+greensnark> Needles are the same 14:40 <+due> Okay. 14:40 <+due> Sigh, my pretty if case will become ugly again. 14:41 < cbus> ?? nikola 14:41 < Henzell> nikola[1/1]: !tv !78291 killer=Nikola 1 14:42 < cbus> @?? nikola 14:42 < Gretell> Nikola (@) | Speed: 9 | HD: 18 | Health: 190 | AC/EV: 1/9 | Damage: 20 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: magic(120) | Chunks: contaminated | XP: 3665 | Sp: shock, chain lightning, blink, b.lightning. 14:46 <+due> Oh, before I go 14:46 <+due> Are we seriously considering releasing 0.6 next month? 14:47 <+greensnark> I would like that, yes, but I don't set release dates :) 14:47 <+due> Okay, cool. 14:47 <+due> Nacht, -dev ;) 14:49 <@dpeg> the one thing that's missing from 0.6 is DS, will go into 0.7, I talked to Sorear about this 14:49 <@dpeg> greensnark: we never set release dates so far! 14:50 <@dpeg> greensnark: once the AC is in (whoever does this, a commit message as explicit as greensnark's last one please) 14:50 <+greensnark> Oh 14:50 <@dpeg> I will write a mail to c-r-d with the plan 14:51 <+greensnark> I was planning to write "AC changes" :P 14:51 <@dpeg> yes, I hoped so :) 15:04 < Napkin> hmm "Fritraewk" is not known to either Gretell nor Henzell? 15:04 < Napkin> Is he a special guy? 15:11 < Ashenzari> Penetration brand inventory tile (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=521) by Porkchop 15:16 -!- Vandal [i=Incite@cpe-75-185-204-99.woh.res.rr.com] has joined ##crawl-dev 15:23 < cbus> are slime craetures meant to split back to their original parts when bringing them up stairs? 15:37 <@dpeg> Napkin: lurker/spammer? 15:37 <@dpeg> Vandal: Hi there! 15:37 -!- Kyrris [n=1@c-67-186-34-100.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left ##crawl-dev [] 15:37 < cbus> reporting it as ab ug then since no reply 15:41 < Ashenzari> slime creatures unsplitting on stair ascent (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=522) by cbus 15:48 <@dpeg> see you later, switching OS 15:48 -!- dpeg [n=dpeg@dis.angband.pl] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:56 -!- Timbermaw [n=riquez60@200.175.209.46.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07 -!- dpeg [n=dpeg@dis.angband.pl] has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+o dpeg] by ChanServ 16:17 < CIA-81> haranp direction-rewrite * rdbb4f7ba3877 /crawl-ref/source/ (directn.cc directn.h item_use.cc): More improvements to direction(). 16:17 < CIA-81> haranp direction-rewrite * r67be55e3c377 /crawl-ref/source/ (30 files in 8 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into direction-rewrite 16:18 <@dpeg> yay! 16:18 <+greensnark> dpeg: The AEVP calc is for body armour only, right? 16:18 <+greensnark> Or does it apply to things like bardings 16:18 <@dpeg> greensnark: yes, only body armour does anything 16:18 <+greensnark> Because currently bardings carry their own EVP 16:18 <@dpeg> greensnark: also, note that the heavy/light distinction should go away 16:18 <+greensnark> So are those simple, unmodified EVP? 16:18 <@dpeg> greensnark: ah, didn't even now that :) 16:19 <+greensnark> dpeg: Yes, light/heavy armour elimination is clear 16:19 <+greensnark> I'll just leave bardings as an unadjusted EVP, they're only -2 16:19 <@dpeg> ok 16:19 <+greensnark> We can change it later if necessary 16:20 < Napkin> sorry to interrupt - greensnark, did you finish with ctrl+c and clean_map? 16:20 <+greensnark> Napkin: Yes, is it not working? 16:20 < Napkin> just asking, because I still have this one issue opened in Mantis 16:20 < Napkin> will check it now :D 16:22 < Napkin> or.. I will modify the savegame backup/transfer script first :) 16:32 <+greensnark> The adjusted shield penalty (ASP) formula mentions size_factor 16:32 <+greensnark> I presume this is different from the EV size factor of (SIZE_MEDIUM - body_size) 16:32 <@dpeg> greensnark: yes, because shields of different sizes affect species differently 16:33 <+greensnark> Because the EV size factor is larger for smaller species 16:33 <+greensnark> Oh ok, I'd isunderstood 16:33 <+greensnark> So what is the conclusion: SP - d(shieldsskill) / (5 + size_factor) 16:34 <@dpeg> yes 16:34 <+greensnark> Larger size factor (smaller body) = larger shield penalty, which is what we want, right? 16:34 <@dpeg> exactly 16:34 <+greensnark> Cool 16:34 <@dpeg> for Trolls and Ogres, shields don#t matter as much 16:34 <@dpeg> I am not fully sure that the randomness is necessary there. 16:35 <+greensnark> The randomnness is a problem there, actually :P 16:35 <+greensnark> It affects displayed EV :P 16:35 <@dpeg> greensnark: bad! 16:35 <@dpeg> greensnark: can you estimate that nothing bad happens if we simply take the mean value? 16:36 <+greensnark> Looks fine to me 16:36 < Ashenzari> mana minibar too long (g7d59d74) (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=523) by ortoslon 16:51 < CIA-81> haranp direction-rewrite * r9b4a7a57aebb /crawl-ref/source/ (directn.cc directn.h): Always print items when just_looking. Fix capitalization. 16:52 * greensnark goes to get coffee. 16:58 < Mu_> greensnark do you think you can get the validate thing to play nice with subvaults ? 16:59 <+greensnark> Mu_: I'm doing the AC change, but I shall get to validation after that 16:59 <+greensnark> I didn't fully understand how to retrieve subvault glyphs from the parent vault after the vaults are merged 16:59 <+greensnark> Currently the validation code just says "Subvault? Call it floor, LOL" :P 17:00 < Mu_> ok :p thank you 17:03 < Napkin> prost, greensnarking! 17:07 <@dpeg> greensnark: afaiu, you shouldn't fiddle with subvaults after they're placed. 17:08 -!- Zaba [n=zaba@ip102.148.adsl.wplus.ru] has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v Zaba] by ChanServ 17:09 < Napkin> script to automatically upgrade all saves to the latest possible version works \o/ 17:10 <@dpeg> Napkin: you are a hero! 17:11 < Napkin> lol, no 17:11 < Napkin> but greensnark told me to take a break from playing :D 17:11 < Napkin> btw, there is a dpeque char in a version from November idling :> 17:12 <+greensnark> dpeg: Mu_ is using a validate hook on a parent vault, which is always returning true because the parent vault is not able to see inside subvaults and doesn't know what features are intervening, and assumes they're floor 17:12 < stabwound> I have a character from the august tournament still going 17:12 < stabwound> just started playing it again the other day 17:12 < stabwound> I wonder if I'll finish before 0.6 17:12 <+greensnark> stabwound: Play trunk :P 17:12 <+greensnark> It's fun! 17:12 < stabwound> my lag is too high to CDO :( 17:13 <+greensnark> Oh 17:13 -!- pointless_ [n=chatzill@ool-4576ec48.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##Crawl-dev 17:13 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v pointless_] by ChanServ 17:13 <+greensnark> dpeg: Is Zin on the 0.7 agenda? 17:13 <+greensnark> I tried a DEHu of Zin, and I've had a lot of trouble gaining piety :P 17:13 <+greensnark> I guess gold sac is needed 17:14 < Napkin> ~200ms, stabwound 17:14 < stabwound> yes 17:14 < Napkin> where are you? 17:14 < stabwound> canada 17:14 <+kilobyte> speed of light sucks :( 17:15 < Napkin> routed through the netherlands - interesting 17:15 <+kilobyte> but it still should be 120-140ish 17:16 <@dpeg> greensnark: yes, Enne couldn't foresee marker madness when he came up with subvaults. 17:16 < stabwound> yeah, I get around 75ms to CAO, which is perfect, but 200ms is way too high for me 17:16 <+greensnark> dpeg: For the spellcasting penalty: New Race Mod: 25 for elven, -15 for dwarven, 15 for race match (plus an indirect effect if you get virtual armour skill) 17:16 <+greensnark> The formula doesn't quite explain how virtual armour skill factors in there :) 17:16 < Napkin> nothing I can do, sorry, stabwound 17:17 <@dpeg> greensnark: There is a full plan for zin and I had hoped that dolorous might be able to code, but doesn't look like it. 17:17 -!- Zaba_ [n=zaba@about/goats/billygoat/zaba] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:17 < stabwound> ahh, it's no problem :P 17:17 <+greensnark> Should the virtual armour bonus be applied to AEVP? 17:17 < Napkin> tried 3 hosts in germany I have access to - all have 200ms to you 17:17 -!- eith [n=eith@86-41-102-58-dynamic.b-ras2.lmk.limerick.eircom.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 17:17 <+kilobyte> when pinging you (and my route goes through Germany), I see that >70ms of your ping is waste inside your ISP 17:17 <@dpeg> greensnark: I have no idea! :O 17:17 <+greensnark> I mean, in the AEVP, should it be using plain Armour skill 17:17 <@dpeg> yes 17:17 <+greensnark> Or base armour skill + bonus for racial equipment 17:17 <+greensnark> I'm guessing the former 17:18 <+greensnark> Which means I don't understand the "plus an indirect effect if you get virtual armour skill" :) 17:18 <@dpeg> !seen drpraetor 17:18 < Henzell> I last saw DrPraetor at Sat Jan 16 17:59:02 2010 UTC (6d 22h 19m 28s ago) quitting with message Connection timed out. 17:18 <+kilobyte> us-chi01a-ri2-gi-3-0-0.aorta.net is 153ms, a.core3-i.ip.execulink.net is 167ms, then you are at 220ms 17:18 <@dpeg> greensnark: this is only about racial armours, rightß 17:19 <+greensnark> dpeg: It's only for the spellcasting penalty for racial body armours worn by players of the same race, yes 17:19 <+greensnark> We can resolve this later 17:19 <@dpeg> I did play CDO from Toronto well, but I may be too slow to notice lages. 17:19 <@dpeg> greensnark: yes, exactly 17:19 <@dpeg> We didn't discuss racial traits properly anyway. 17:20 <+greensnark> Hehe, my routing to cdo goes through Los Angeles :P 17:20 <+greensnark> And then to Washington and Frankfurt :P 17:20 <+kilobyte> Napkin: a different issue: most of big changes for 0.6 went in very recently, so stats/milestones/kills/etc from pre-release versions will really muddle the water 17:20 <@dpeg> greensnark: it is missing Auckland! 17:21 < Napkin> they always were, kilobyte 17:21 <+kilobyte> Napkin: what about marking pre-release games somehow? 17:21 < Napkin> that's why there is no stats about them etc 17:21 < Napkin> what for? 17:21 <+greensnark> !lg * src=cdo x=alpha 17:21 <+greensnark> Wake up Henzell 17:22 < Napkin> once 0.6 is released, 0.6 will get a blank logfile & milestone & score file 17:22 <+kilobyte> most queries include just the version, I don't remember ever seeing someone issuing a query with source 17:22 < Henzell> 71118. [alpha=y] soldroz the Shooter (L6 HEAM), slain by a wyvern zombie on D:6 on 2010-01-23, with 602 points after 4094 turns and 0:16:12. 17:22 <+greensnark> svn games should be marked alpha=y 17:22 <+kilobyte> it would suck to lose the games from the logs, though 17:22 <+greensnark> Most queries don't use it, yes 17:23 < Napkin> oh, that's something you need to ask the henzell maintainer 17:23 <@dpeg> don't lose games, we need them for statistics 17:23 <+kilobyte> right, my idea would be to mark the games as 0.6a or some such 17:23 <+greensnark> Hm, I could do that 17:23 * greensnark puts that on todo. 17:25 < Napkin> thanks, greensnark 17:25 < Napkin> :) 17:25 <+greensnark> Maybe I can include alpha games in the main CAO scoring pages as well, marked as such? 17:25 <+kilobyte> dpeg: choose colours: acid blobs : light cyan, or acid blobs: yellow, Royal Jelly: light magenta, Dissolution: light cyan 17:25 <+greensnark> I should ask rax 17:25 <+kilobyte> greensnark: would be great! 17:25 <@dpeg> greensnark: yes yes yes 17:26 <+greensnark> rax has to agree :) 17:26 <+greensnark> rax: You around? 17:26 <@dpeg> unfortunately, I just annoyed Rachel, better somebody else asks 17:26 <@dpeg> kilobyte: what are acid blobs now? 17:27 <+kilobyte> dpeg: light cyan, but the commit message says clearly "tentatively". I just had to choose something when taking light green for big slime creatures. 17:28 <+kilobyte> since that was a single recolouring, not three 17:28 <@dpeg> kilobyte: hm, seems as if AB->lightcyan was easiest. What do you think= 17:32 <+kilobyte> well, I like the three changes option slightly better but only before taking the number of changes into account. Inertia means that the one change option is slightly better, probably. 17:33 <+kilobyte> But if we don't know, we may toss a coin or something :p 17:33 <+kilobyte> Either is better than keeping the FR open. 17:34 <@dpeg> kilobyte: agreed 17:35 <@dpeg> kilobyte: there is one more reason to not change colours too much: less work on tiles needed. 17:35 <@dpeg> so let's keep a yellow Royal Jelly, okayß 17:35 <+kilobyte> cool. 17:38 < Napkin> i'd like to update CDO - anything in the near queue I should wait for? 17:38 <@dpeg> Napkin: yes, wait for greensnark 17:38 <+greensnark> AC changes are still 2 hours away 17:39 <+greensnark> I need to sanity-check and write up the commit exegesis :P 17:39 <@dpeg> worth the wait :) 17:39 < Napkin> one last pre-AC/EV overhaul build it is :D 17:39 <@dpeg> greensnark: commit message longer than the commit itself? :) 17:39 <@dpeg> how do I switch branches in git? 17:39 <@dpeg> git brach SituationalMadness ? 17:40 <+greensnark> git checkout 17:40 <+greensnark> If you don't have a local branch corresponding to the remote branch yet: git checkout -b origin/remotebranchname 17:40 < Napkin> git branch 17:40 < Napkin> first 17:40 <@dpeg> thanks 17:41 <@dpeg> Napkin: how's your dad doing? 17:41 < Napkin> dying bravely 17:41 < Napkin> ;) 17:41 <@dpeg> :) 17:42 <@dpeg> To be honest, I loved the feeling of certain death when playing 4.1. 17:42 < Napkin> a bit frustrated about dying to be honest 17:42 < Napkin> will play with him this evening a bit 17:50 < Napkin> *phew* 17:50 < Napkin> "SQLite does not enforce the length of a VARCHAR. You can declare a VARCHAR(10) and SQLite will be happy to let you put 500 characters in it. And it will keep all 500 characters intact - it never truncates." 17:50 < Napkin> that just saved my butt :D 17:50 < Napkin> Master branch on CDO updated to: 0.6.0-a1-2630-g4afa74bf0 (16.1) 18:03 <@dpeg> Haran's new targeting interface kicks a buttload of asses. 18:03 < Twinge> rodents of unusual size <-- capybara! 18:15 <+kilobyte> hmm, Cheibriados nuking your piety for removing ponderousness really deserves a message. 18:15 <@dpeg> kilobyte: yes! 18:15 <@dpeg> btw, does Che still give piety if you eat your bread and are full? 18:17 <+kilobyte> not anymore, it gave any meaningful piety only if you worn gourmand and scummed levels 18:17 <+kilobyte> "Cb REALLY dislikes you throwing away his blessings." -- would be good if not for gender reference 18:18 <+kilobyte> but using a male ending kind of fixes the gender anyway 18:18 <+kilobyte> what other message would you use? 18:18 <+greensnark> Hm, for combat bonuses, the new formulas specify penalties for shield + 1.5 hander 18:18 <@dpeg> yes, I think that is intentional 18:19 <+greensnark> Which means I have to up the stats of 1.5 handers and remove the existing random bonus for no-shield, correct? 18:19 < Twinge> 'Cb REALLY dislikes you removing the blessing of ponderousness', etc. 18:19 <+greensnark> 1.5 handers currently have stats that assume you're using them with a shield 18:19 <+greensnark> And if you go shieldless, they get to-hit and dam bonuses 18:19 <@dpeg> aha! 18:19 <+greensnark> Since the new formula factors in the shield math as penalties, I should up their base stats, right? 18:20 <@dpeg> "Cb disapproves of your removal of this item." 18:20 <+kilobyte> dpeg: it doesn't convey -67 piety, when mere -5 give bit fat messages and put you in penance 18:21 < Twinge> 67??? 18:21 <+kilobyte> s/bit/big/ 18:21 < Napkin> yes, please, greensnark :> 18:21 <+kilobyte> yes, currently you lose 1/3 piety for removing ponderousness. That's... extreme, especially for a grossly underpowered god. 18:21 <@dpeg> greensnark: yes, I think that is the only sane way 18:21 < Twinge> Cb is 'deeply saddened' by... 18:22 <@dpeg> kilobyte: I don't think that the piety loss is the final solution 18:22 < Twinge> It's not like losing even 1/5th of it would be a small amount :P 18:23 < Napkin> Keskitalo? 18:24 * greensnark mews. 18:24 <+greensnark> Hand and half bonus was being applied after skill multiplier 18:25 <+greensnark> Ok, I shall boldly go and make 1.5 handers rock :P 18:25 < Napkin> \o/ 18:25 <+greensnark> +1 base to-hit and damage :P 18:25 < Napkin> pffff :-P 18:25 < Napkin> :D 18:25 <+greensnark> Base damage :P 18:25 <+greensnark> Which is very valuable :) 18:27 <@dpeg> greensnark: the +1 right in the weapon stats, yesß 18:27 <+greensnark> I do feel a powerful disinclination ot make broad axes more popular, so I'll give them the miss :P 18:27 <+greensnark> Damn, polearms :P 18:28 <+kilobyte> you can't overimprove polearms, they were nerfed into oblivion 18:28 <+greensnark> I think the new word for demon tridents will be "ridiculous" :P 18:29 <+kilobyte> even when they were capable of speed, no one sane used them on non-merfolk 18:29 <+greensnark> Demon tridents have always been pretty respectable, though 18:29 <+greensnark> And you can get them off impalers now :P 18:30 <@dpeg> I like polearms of reaching. 18:31 <+kilobyte> dpeg: what about removing the reaching brand and making it a property of polearms? 18:32 <+kilobyte> that would make Shoals harder, too 18:33 <@dpeg> kilobyte: I have toyed with this idea for a long time. 18:33 <@dpeg> Never got enough support to just do it. 18:33 < CIA-81> kilobyte * rcfdaf57f2fb0 /crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Add another grade for piety loss after mere -10 "extremely guilty". 18:33 < CIA-81> kilobyte * r26ebeafe33e9 /crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Give a message when removing ponderousness as a CB worshipper. 18:34 <@dpeg> Now is not the time, but I hope we can get weapon specials in 0.7. And then all polearms should be reaching, yes. 18:34 <+kilobyte> you want support? If someone disagrees, give them the stats of weapon types used. 18:34 <@dpeg> kilobyte: well, by that argument we can remove Nagas right away :) 18:34 <+kilobyte> !lg * ktyp=winning skill=polearms 18:34 < Henzell> 145. undermind the Minotaur Porcupine (L27 MiMo), worshipper of Trog, escaped with the Orb and 14 runes on 2010-01-17, with 9320925 points after 111500 turns and 11:42:58. 18:34 <+kilobyte> !lg * ktyp=winning skill=axes 18:34 < Henzell> 391. xyblor the Axe Maniac (L27 DDSt), worshipper of Makhleb, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2010-01-22, with 1471821 points after 89183 turns and 9:24:56. 18:34 <+kilobyte> !lg * ktyp=winning skill=maces&flails 18:34 < Henzell> No games for * (ktyp=winning skill=maces&flails). 18:34 <+kilobyte> !lg * ktyp=winning skill=maces 18:34 < Henzell> No games for * (ktyp=winning skill=maces). 18:35 <+kilobyte> !lg * ktyp=winning skill=~maces 18:35 < Henzell> 85. tehpwn the Shatterer (L27 DSCK), worshipper of Makhleb, escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2010-01-21, with 1619212 points after 132807 turns and 9:55:39. 18:35 <+kilobyte> !lg * ktyp=winning skill=long blades 18:35 < Henzell> 186. Yavar the Swordmaster (L27 SEEn), worshipper of The Shining One, escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2010-01-21, with 2215764 points after 129493 turns and 15:31:20. 18:37 <+kilobyte> if Nagas suck compared to other races, they should be improved. The definition of "balance" is having all races roughly as good. 18:38 <+greensnark> Actually that's not strictly the case 18:38 <+greensnark> Game balance is more to present a reasonable challenge to players of any species at any point of the game 18:38 < eith> thats balance for multiplayer games 18:38 <+greensnark> Having one race be distinctly easier than anotheri s fine 18:38 <+greensnark> Right, balancing species vs each other is important for multiplier PvP style 18:39 <+greensnark> Not so much for Crawl 18:39 <@dpeg> kilobyte: the point is that Naga are completely fine and still unpopular. 18:39 <+greensnark> Dear lord, I typo horribly 18:39 <@dpeg> This is why the numbers are a bit misleading and we have to get information about over/underpowered in other ways. 18:39 <@dpeg> greensnark: also, interpunction is endangered today. 18:40 * greensnark does not recognise "interpunction" :) 18:40 <+greensnark> Punctuation? 18:40 <@dpeg> ah, may be 18:40 <@dpeg> I have Anglised the German word. 18:41 <+kilobyte> I'm not sure if being unable to escape from fights (save for teleport) is fully covered with beefs they get 18:42 <+greensnark> I'm making some changes to the delay penalties 18:42 <+kilobyte> and there are races strictly better than other. Mi < MD in all regards if you forget skills neither of them wants anyway. 18:43 < eith> this is good though, it gives varying difficulty levels 18:43 <@dpeg> kilobyte: Naga does not have to compete with Dwarf, they only need to be good enough to be viable and fun. They are, and they even have a niche. 18:43 <@dpeg> kilobyte: labyrinths! 18:44 <+kilobyte> dpeg: ok, labirynths and slightly better RM, so almost strictly 18:44 <+kilobyte> !apt MD 18:44 < Henzell> MD: Air=150, Armour=60!, Axes=65!, Bows=150, Conj=120, Xbows=90, Darts=120, Div=130, Dodge=110, Earth=70, Ench=150, Evo=67, Exp=130, Fighting=70!, Fire=70!, Ice=130, Inv=75, Long=90, Maces=70!, Nec=160, Poison=130, Polearms=110, Shields=70!, Short=80, Slings=120, Splcast=208, Stab=130, Staves=120, Stealth=150, Summ=150, Throw=120, Tloc=150, Tmut=120, Traps=80, Unarmed=100 18:44 <+kilobyte> !apt Mi 18:44 < Henzell> Mi: Air=170, Armour=80, Axes=70, Bows=90, Conj=170*, Xbows=90, Darts=90, Div=170, Dodge=80, Earth=170*, Ench=170, Evo=127, Exp=140, Fighting=70!, Fire=170*, Ice=170*, Inv=97, Long=70!, Maces=70!, Nec=170*, Poison=170*, Polearms=70, Shields=80, Short=70, Slings=90, Splcast=234, Stab=100, Staves=70!, Stealth=130, Summ=170*, Throw=90, Tloc=170*, Tmut=170*, Traps=120, Unarmed=80! 18:44 <@dpeg> bows! 18:44 < syllogism> it's pretty insulting Mi even have a higher exp modifier 18:44 <@dpeg> and additional UC 18:45 <@dpeg> of course MD is better than Mi but it's not a huge issue imo 18:45 <@dpeg> also, I have plans to make dwarves small, as they should be 18:45 <+kilobyte> bows matter for hunters, and MD get crossbows which are much better than bows. 18:46 < syllogism> would be weird if they couldn't wield axe+shield 18:46 <@dpeg> syllogism: small shield :) 18:46 < syllogism> no one would play them then :P 18:46 <+kilobyte> what really matters are aptitudes for skills you are likely to use 18:46 <@dpeg> I don't care! 18:48 <+kilobyte> Armour: 60/80. Best weapons: 65/70. Exp: 130/140. Shields: 70/80. Fighting: 70=70. T&D: 80/120. Evoc: 67/127. Invoc: 75/97. 18:49 <@dpeg> sure 18:49 <@dpeg> make dwarves small would help 18:50 <@dpeg> syllogism: could also rule that dwarven shields come in all sizes and that dwarves can use them 18:50 <+kilobyte> greensnark: when re-statting weapons, have you taken into account that handedness is a factor of race? So most gear is 1.5-handed or 2-handed for small races currently. 18:50 <+greensnark> No, I hadn't 18:50 <+kilobyte> greensnark: long swords are 2-handed, falchions 1.5-handed 18:50 <+greensnark> I haven't dealt with the hand-half changes yet, they're messy 18:51 <+greensnark> But I think there's no need to worry about the non-base-hand-halfers anyway 18:51 <@dpeg> okay, Go time 18:52 <@dpeg> targeting interface is on a good way 18:52 * greensnark is mired in delay calcs :P 18:52 <@dpeg> together with AC nerf, we're ready to go :) 18:52 <+kilobyte> 2-handed stuff never degrades to 1.5 or 1 though, so I'd say it's better to keep 1.5 bonuses instead of changing the stats and adding maluses 18:53 <@dpeg> that may be a bit late 18:53 <+greensnark> This will need some iterations anyway 18:53 <+greensnark> But I haven't examine the hand-half mess in depth yet :P 18:55 -!- TGWi [n=TGW@c-68-61-239-31.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 18:58 <+kilobyte> the issue is, you'd have to give falchions big stats and degrade them depending on race, which leads to a bigger mess compared to the current system 18:59 <+greensnark> No, I think falchions have decent base damage 18:59 <+greensnark> I haven't reviewed any of that in detail yet 18:59 <+greensnark> I'll get to that soon :) 18:59 <+kilobyte> I mean, if you want to give people penalty for wielding 1.5-handed with a shield 19:00 <+greensnark> I'm not very worried about that, actually 19:00 <+greensnark> Shields are very strong currently :) 19:00 <@dpeg> yes 19:00 <+greensnark> But in any case, this will just be the first iteration 19:00 <+greensnark> Changes are almost inevitable :) 19:00 <@dpeg> although there's a trend to use 2-handers again, for damage purposes 19:00 -!- dpeg [n=dpeg@dis.angband.pl] has quit ["Atari!"] 19:06 <+kilobyte> idea: instead of varied base damage, we can store weapon stats assuming 1-handedness and calculating 2-handed/1.5-handed bonus on the fly 19:07 <+kilobyte> like, weapon acquirement code assumes a 1/1.5-handed weapon is worth the same as a 2-handed weapon with 1.5* the damage 19:13 <+greensnark> For simplicity I'd prefer retaining the current base damages 19:13 <+greensnark> The hand-half bonuses were defined with ref to base humans, so we fix their base stats 19:14 <+greensnark> After that, if small races want to avoid shield penalties, they can skip shields or beef up their shield skill 19:14 <+greensnark> If the shield penalties are too high, let's just fix that 19:14 <+greensnark> We may want to do more complex things, but that's better pushed past 0.6 19:15 <+greensnark> The simplest changes that work for 0.6 is what I'm looking for :) 19:16 <+greensnark> I'm still pretty unsure about these new delay and tohit/todam modifiers for combat 19:17 < Ashenzari> minor change to 1.5-handed weapons (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=524) by TGW 19:20 <+greensnark> Naughty TGW :P 19:21 < TGWi> ? 19:21 < TGWi> I'm not even sure what you're talking about 19:21 < TGWi> I just joined here, saw "1.5" and said "oh yeah I should FR that one thing I've been sitting on forever" 19:24 <+greensnark> What were the conclusions on armour/dodging training? 19:24 <+greensnark> Do both of them train normally now? 19:25 <+greensnark> Ok, I'm going to make them do just that, and we can fix the breakage later :P 19:26 -!- by [n=rob@g225111091.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:26 -!- by_ [n=rob@g225109219.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined ##crawl-dev 19:26 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v by_] by ChanServ 19:26 < stabwound> is the CDO tracker the official one now? 19:27 <+greensnark> stabwound: Yes, pretty much 19:27 < stabwound> ah, okay 19:31 <+doy> so has anything important happened in the past day or so? 19:31 * doy doesn't feel like reading scrollback 19:32 <+greensnark> Hell has no wrath like scrollback spurned. 19:32 <+greensnark> It will gnaw on your dreams! 19:34 <+greensnark> First iter of AC changes should happen within an hour or three 19:34 <+doy> nice 19:37 < Ashenzari> Inconsistent missile ID (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=525) by tinyrodent 19:38 -!- Twinge_ [n=user@97-124-172-151.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 19:39 <+by_> stabwound: subjectively, use_fake_player_cursor=true helps a lot with lag for me 19:39 -!- by_ is now known as by 19:42 < Ashenzari> Centaur Paladin tile (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=526) by Porkchop 19:42 < TGWi> greensnark: does that include capless dex? 19:43 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-152-56.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:43 <+greensnark> For the first iteration, yes 19:44 <+greensnark> It's likely to be hit by a stepdown pretty fast though :P 19:44 < TGWi> <3 19:45 <+doy> oh hey, stabwound's back 19:45 <+doy> (: 19:46 <+greensnark> Armour + Dodging training needs a close look 19:46 <+greensnark> !tell dpeg I'm skipping Armour/Dodging/Stealth training changes for now, since there's no consensus there. 19:46 < Henzell> greensnark: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 19:46 <+greensnark> !tell dpeg This means we still have the heavy/light distinction for skill training porpoises. 19:46 < Henzell> greensnark: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 19:47 < Ashenzari> Identified branded ammunition not behaving properly (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=54) by Eronarn 19:57 < Ashenzari> Inconsistent wield messages (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=527) by tinyrodent 20:02 -!- ogaz [n=chatzill@c-67-187-226-4.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 20:05 -!- NoX1ouS [n=samimyll@tuomi.oulu.fi] has quit ["leaving"] 20:09 -!- Enne [n=enne@cpe-076-182-101-004.nc.res.rr.com] has joined ##crawl-dev 20:09 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v Enne] by ChanServ 20:15 < Iainuki> greensnark: What's under discussion for that? 20:15 <+greensnark> Iainuki: Skill training, you mean? I'm not sure that has been discussed much at all 20:15 < Iainuki> Yes. 20:17 < Ashenzari> Autoexplore bug (Tiles) (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=528) by Eifeltrampel 20:19 -!- Cryp71c [n=burnhamr@c-68-53-104-165.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19 < Cryp71c> Twinge_, hey I wanted to touch bse with you, are the Xom changes you had in mind on the Xom wiki? 20:27 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-161-108.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 20:32 -!- Twinge_ [n=user@97-124-172-151.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:34 -!- hashc [n=hash@adsl-68-76-123-64.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 20:36 < CIA-81> by * r917cc2df17cd /crawl-ref/source/ (25 files): Split out did_god_conduct and some other things to godconduct.{h,cc}. 20:38 -!- Twinge_ [n=user@97-124-161-197.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 20:40 < Twinge_> Cryptic: My ISP is fubar, especially this time of day, so I may be disconnecting a lot :/ 20:40 < Twinge_> I'm not sure how many of the good Xom ideas I've seen or thought up are on the wiki, I'll have to check it out 20:40 <+doy> by: godconduct.cc:886: error: ‘_dock_piety’ was not declared in this scope 20:42 <+by> huh, thanks 20:45 < CIA-81> by * r788a92e75cce /crawl-ref/source/godconduct.cc: Fix compile. 20:46 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-161-108.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:49 < Cryp71c> Twinge_, k let me know which you were thinking of, and I'll run them past the others and then implement them 20:50 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-174-185.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 20:50 < Cryp71c> Twinge, did you get the message I just sent? 20:52 <+doy> is there a reason that resting is so incredibly slow now? 20:52 <+doy> pressing 5 takes like 3 seconds 20:53 <+doy> autoexplore takes a good amount of time too 20:54 -!- Twinge_ [n=user@97-124-161-197.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:55 <+greensnark> A lot of players have complained about it 20:55 <+greensnark> Are you using a debug build? 20:55 <+greensnark> I should profile it sometime 20:55 <+by> doy: now as compared to when? 20:55 -!- Twinge_ [n=user@97-124-156-102.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 20:56 <+greensnark> One thing that would be nice is if resting could avoid redrawing the screen 20:56 <+greensnark> But I don't think that's the main culprit 20:56 <+doy> yeah, this happens even when there's no redrawing to be done 20:56 <+by> greensnark: that's trivial to do but feels weird when around friendly monsters and clouds 20:57 <+doy> although the cursor does tend to just hang out over in the hud when resting 20:57 <+doy> which is kinda weird 20:57 <+greensnark> by: Well, I'm usually not interested in what's happening during the rest :) 20:57 <+by> the window is very probably entirely redrawn at least once each turn 20:57 <+greensnark> One update when the rest is over is a-ok with me :) 20:57 <+doy> by: shrug, it wasn't like this last time i actually played 20:57 <+doy> but that was like a month or so ago 20:58 <+greensnark> The game also redraws the stats area 20:58 <+by> doy: one month ago is after the viewwindow and LOS changes, so that's good information 20:58 <+doy> i first noticed it when messing around in wizmode when i was testing out the new monster generation stuff 20:59 <+doy> but i hadn't really done anything since the messagewindow merge either 20:59 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-174-185.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:59 <+doy> !lg 20:59 < Henzell> 758. doy the Skirmisher (L1 DrCr), slain by a hobgoblin (a +0,+0 club) on D:1 on 2010-01-18, with 47 points after 204 turns and 0:00:39. 20:59 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-157-164.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 20:59 <+doy> !lg -2 20:59 < Henzell> 757. doy the Chopper (L6 DrCr), slain by an ice beast on D:5 on 2010-01-18, with 557 points after 7481 turns and 0:37:44. 20:59 <+doy> !lg -3 20:59 < Henzell> 756. doy the Skirmisher (L1 DrCr), slain by a hobgoblin (a +0,+0 club) on D:1 on 2010-01-11, with 26 points after 163 turns and 0:00:27. 20:59 <+doy> hmmm, don't know if it was a problem in those games 20:59 <+doy> !lg -4 20:59 < Henzell> 755. doy the Skirmisher (L3 DrCr), slain by a giant gecko on D:2 on 2010-01-11, with 152 points after 1182 turns and 0:03:54. 20:59 <+doy> !lg -5 20:59 < Henzell> 754. doy the Skirmisher (L3 DrCr), succumbed to poison on D:3 on 2010-01-11, with 218 points after 2418 turns and 0:05:37. 20:59 <+doy> !lg -6 20:59 < Henzell> 753. doy the Sneak (L5 VpAs), slain by an orc (a +0,+2 orcish falchion) on D:4 on 2010-01-11, with 434 points after 3974 turns and 0:22:08. 20:59 <+doy> !lg -7 21:00 < Henzell> 752. doy the Ruffian (L3 GhMo), slain by a gnoll (a +0,+0 flail) on D:2 on 2010-01-11, with 76 points after 1289 turns and 0:03:39. 21:00 <+doy> shrug 21:00 <+greensnark> When I was testing Napkin's save for the clean_map stuff, I noticed that hitting 'X' took a looong time to bring up the level map 21:00 <+greensnark> On a debug build 21:00 <+greensnark> It happened only with his save, too :P 21:00 <+doy> X is fine for me, but i don't use debug builds, so 21:00 <+greensnark> And this is on my desktop, which isn't a slouch 21:00 <+greensnark> I should reexamine that save sometime 21:01 <+by> greensnark: check c37c87 if you want to make changes there 21:01 <+doy> oh, on an unrelated note 21:01 <+doy> we really should consider changing to 8-character short hashes 21:01 <+doy> we're starting to get collisions with 7 21:03 <+doy> git log --abbrev-commit --pretty=oneline | cut -f1 -d' ' | grep -v '^.......$' 21:03 -!- Twinge-- [n=user@97-124-171-163.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 21:04 <+doy> that lists 10 commits that are ambiguous at 7 characters 21:04 <+doy> the collisions are all with non-commit objects so far, but it's still irritating when feeding into things like git show 21:05 <+doy> oh, no, one of the collisions is two commit objects 21:05 <+kilobyte> for git-describe, we can go to another namespace by creating a new tag, we already have 0.6.0-a0 and 0.6.0-a1 21:06 <+doy> kilobyte: sure, but i want to be able to just copy the rev and say "git show " 21:06 <+doy> and have it work 21:07 <+kilobyte> "git show 0.6.0-a1-2634-g788a92e" works 21:07 < Twinge--> The Xom wiki section is pretty awkward; the 'New ideas' section seems to actually be the 'jpeg is planning on implementing these' section :P 21:07 <+doy> oh really 21:08 <+kilobyte> it also works by counting commits by the last named tag, so the hash part is used only for non-linear parts 21:09 <+kilobyte> of course, in places where we use a hash rather than the version string (git describe), your observation about too short hashes remains valid 21:10 <+kilobyte> heh, I see CDO was just changed to use 9 characters rather than 7 :p 21:11 <+doy> (: 21:11 <+doy> i guess napkin's already ahead of me! 21:12 <+kilobyte> but really, any reason to not crack open -a2? 21:12 <+doy> shrug, any reason *to* do it? 21:13 <+kilobyte> less risk of hash clash, and someone did -a0 and -a1 before, that's all 21:13 <+doy> i'd say wait for the ac stuff to go in, and tag it as -b0 21:13 <+doy> and mark that as the feature freeze 21:15 <+doy> but if someone who knows more about our build system wanted to go through and add --abbrev=9 or whatever to our git describe invocations, wherever they are, that would be nice too 21:17 <+kilobyte> it's used in four places, 3 in makefile, 1 in util/gen_ver.pl 21:17 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-157-164.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [No route to host] 21:19 <+kilobyte> since it's just a disambiguation for non-linear history, it would just make version numbers longer, though 21:19 -!- Twinge_ [n=user@97-124-156-102.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [No route to host] 21:19 <+kilobyte> unless we detach the hash from commit count somewhere 21:19 <+doy> shrug, 22 vs 24 characters isn't a big deal, really 21:20 <+kilobyte> right 21:20 <+doy> actually 21:21 <+doy> just using --abbrev on its own makes git figure out how many characters to use to be non-ambiguous 21:21 <+doy> that's probably the best solution 21:22 < CIA-81> by * r7149ab91fba3 /crawl-ref/source/ (9 files): Split out godprayer.{cc,h} from religion.cc. 21:23 <+doy> for git-describe anyway 21:24 <+kilobyte> oh, indeed the man page says it will use more when needed. Cool! 21:24 < CIA-81> greensnark * r29850c7c4740 /crawl-ref/source/ (8 files): AC/EV changes as outlined on CDO wiki. 21:26 <+doy> for places where we use just the bare hash (if those exist?) should probably specify --abbrev=9 specifically 21:26 -!- Twinge-- is now known as Twinge 21:27 <+doy> since later commits could make them ambiguous after the fact 21:39 <+kilobyte> CDO banner is the only place where we use a bare abbreviation of a hash, as far as I know 21:40 < TGWi> hey, who was removing misleading randart names? 21:40 < TGWi> "[weapon] of Pain" is still a candidate 21:40 < TGWi> which has the same problem as the rest 21:40 <+greensnark> of Insufficient Pleasure 21:47 < CIA-81> kilobyte * r8e9310a21b4d /crawl-ref/source/dat/database/rand_wpn.txt: Don't use "of Pain" as a randart name. 21:47 < TGWi> kilobyte: cool! 21:47 < Napkin> hey guys, what's with the abbrev thingy? 21:48 < Napkin> suddenly 9? 21:48 < Napkin> did it grow by itself because it became necessary? 21:48 <+doy> Napkin: did you not do that? 21:48 -!- Mu_ [i=Mu@cpc14-live9-0-0-cust109.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place."] 21:49 -!- Cryp71c [n=burnhamr@c-68-53-104-165.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:49 < Napkin> no, i compiled like always - and saw that the abbrev given by git-describe was suddenly 9 21:49 < Napkin> luckily sqlite ignored my varchar(7) setting in the column ;) 21:50 <+doy> oh, heh, it looks like that revision is ambiguous even at 8 chars 21:50 <+doy> so yeah, something probably did just autoexpand it 21:51 < Napkin> I adjusted the scripts - so CDO is abbrev=9 safe now ;) 21:51 <+doy> good 21:51 <+doy> (: 21:51 <+greensnark> doy: Napkin won his first server game today :) 21:51 <+doy> nice(: 21:51 < Napkin> \o/ 21:51 <+by> Napkin: congratulations 21:51 < Napkin> thank you :) 21:52 <+doy> !lg napkin 21:52 < Henzell> 338. Napkin the Farming Annihilator (L27 HEFE), worshipper of Vehumet, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2010-01-23, with 1217491 points after 210566 turns and 37:34:22. 21:52 < Napkin> I blame a big part on greensnark! :> 21:52 < TGWi> grats napkin 21:52 < Napkin> how did I become farming :-O 21:52 <+greensnark> 200k turns :P 21:52 < Napkin> too much of resting? 21:52 < Napkin> aahhh 21:52 < Napkin> :D 21:53 <+by> there must be something wrong with the turn counting... 21:53 <+by> !lg 21:53 < Henzell> 1512. rob the Imperceptible Farmer (L27 DDTh), worshipper of Sif Muna, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2010-01-22, with 1104074 points after 323468 turns and 31:45:48. 21:53 < TGWi> violetj: elly: rax: help help 21:53 < syllogism> is there really 21:53 <+by> syllogism: doubt it 21:53 <+greensnark> TGWi: ? 21:53 < TGWi> the bots are getting pretty bad in ##crawl 21:53 < syllogism> OPs can't really do much about that, besides +r 21:54 <+greensnark> Huh, where are the bots? 21:54 < eith> they get auto-killed though 21:54 < MarvinPA> they figured out ctcp now, yeah :/ 21:54 < TGWi> syllogism: that was what I was hoping 21:54 < TGWi> syllogism: it worked last time 21:54 < MarvinPA> greensnark: they're not spamming messages anymore, but ctcp versions 21:54 < MarvinPA> so +R won't stop them i think 21:54 <+greensnark> Oh 21:55 <+greensnark> Yeah, I /ignored ctcp requests when the last notice suggested it 21:55 < MarvinPA> yeah, that is probably a good idea :P 21:55 < TGWi> greensnark: how does that go down? 21:56 <+greensnark> I did /ignore *!*@* CTCPS 22:00 < Napkin> thanks, greensnark 22:01 <+greensnark> Napkin: ? 22:01 < Napkin> I missed the wall message, where they told to set that ignore 22:01 <+greensnark> Oh, that 22:01 < Napkin> you repeated it, I repeated it in window 1 ;) 22:01 <+greensnark> :) 22:10 < CIA-81> by * r364737a546fd /crawl-ref/source/ (player.cc player.h tags.cc tags.h): Add field player::che_saved_ponderousness. 22:10 < CIA-81> by * r9d6ab8d275d2 /crawl-ref/source/ (player.cc player.h): Optionally count melded armour in player_equip_ego_type. 22:10 < CIA-81> by * rbc868ace6609 /crawl-ref/source/godprayer.cc: Enable Cheibriados prayer, tracking ponderousness at start and end. 22:10 < CIA-81> by * r978a9999a276 /crawl-ref/source/it_use2.cc: Don't cut piety for unpondering during prayer. 22:10 < CIA-81> by * r1511ae9402e5 /crawl-ref/source/godconduct.cc: Make DID_UNPONDEROUS piety cut depend on level. 22:11 < TGWi> what's chei prayer do? 22:11 < TGWi> ponder you? 22:12 <+by> TGWi: nothing currently, just allows temporarily removing ponderous armour without piety loss 22:12 < TGWi> I didn't know there was piety loss for that 22:13 < MarvinPA> so if you put it back on before the prayer ends you're okay? 22:13 < MarvinPA> no piety loss that is 22:13 <+by> MarvinPA: yes 22:13 <+by> TGWi: it's new 22:13 < MarvinPA> cool 22:13 < TGWi> by: was there a problem? 22:13 < TGWi> that seems kind of silly 22:13 <+doy> TGWi: it was added when you became able to ponderousify non-body armour 22:14 <+doy> because otherwise you could just leave ponderousness on your gloves or whatever, and just take it off to run away 22:14 <+doy> and that's dumb 22:14 <+by> there was an issue before: switching armour to fight weak opponents is not fun 22:14 < TGWi> could make pondered non-body armour just take a long time to equip/dequip 22:15 < TGWi> since it's a chei-only effect 22:15 -!- scarf [n=scarf@unaffiliated/ais523] has joined ##crawl-dev 22:15 < MarvinPA> but now, you would stay ponderous most of the time and pray+remove ponderous gloves if you want to fight something strong without being slow? 22:15 <+doy> what by said still applies though 22:15 <+doy> there's still the piety scumming by constantly switching armour issue 22:15 <+by> MarvinPA: I'm in the process of addressing that 22:15 <+doy> which is also dumb 22:16 < MarvinPA> okay, well i've never got very far with chei and i don't know exactly what you're aiming for either way :P 22:17 < CIA-81> by * r7fe2bb4e80a9 /crawl-ref/source/player.cc: During Che prayer, removing ponderous armour doesn't speed you up. 22:18 < TGWi> that doesn't seem any less dumb 22:18 <+by> ? 22:19 < TGWi> prayer to retain a brand of armour you're not wearing 22:19 < TGWi> seems like you could keep pondered forever without actually using any equipment, yeah? 22:19 < scarf> the prayer has to end sometime 22:20 < TGWi> no it doesn't 22:20 <+by> other prayer effects will come; perhaps even disallow movement entirely 22:22 <+doy> maybe prayer should just not allow anything to speed you up, at all 22:22 <+doy> including things like removing ponderousness 22:22 <+doy> but should also make you slower with time 22:22 <+doy> so eventually you can't move 22:23 <+by> it's true that 7fe2bb doesn't work well; I still don't think it's appropriate to call it "dump" 22:23 < TGWi> prayer that makes you slow is the second coming of praying before kills 22:23 <+by> s/dump/dumb/ 22:23 < TGWi> doy was calling the alternative dumb :| 22:24 < scarf> doy: as in, can't move in any direction? 22:24 < scarf> or as in, blue jelly with unchanging in NetHack? 22:24 < scarf> (context: the bug basically means you don't get any more turns ever, all game, you just have to sit there and watch) 22:25 < CIA-81> by * rb2163f1ee0f1 /crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Revert "During Che prayer, removing ponderous armour doesn't speed you up." 22:25 * TGWi high five 22:25 <+doy> it should preserve your overall speed, but the 'slower with time' thing should just affect movement, i guess 22:27 <+by> I think I'll just leave it as is, for now; the piety loss mechanic is in, and someone else will have to come up with a way to discourage abusing prayer 22:30 <+by> or, as a quick fix before something better comes up, just make prayer cause overall slowness? 22:32 < TGWi> "prayer that makes you slow is the second coming of praying before kills" 22:32 < TGWi> ie tedious 22:32 < TGWi> people would also pray before using slouch, etc 22:39 < Twinge> !tell Cryp71c I added my comments to the exisiting Xom ideas on the wiki and added a handful of other ideas as well. Maybe start with the things that both dpeg and I think are good ideas and are also interesting to you or easy to do? 22:39 < Henzell> Twinge: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 22:40 <+by> !tell dpeg Prayer for piety-safe changing is in now; prayer still needs some effects to discourage the same old abuse during perma-prayer. 22:40 < Henzell> by: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 22:40 -!- Eifel [n=Eifel@dslb-084-063-022-059.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 22:40 < Eifel> hi 22:41 -!- Twinge_ [n=user@97-124-153-30.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 22:45 <+by> TGWi, scarf, doy: if you have ideas for Che prayer (or how to solve the issue differently), please add to the Che wiki 22:46 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-171-163.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Operation timed out] 22:46 < TGWi> I'm unclear as to what issue you're trying to solve 22:46 < scarf> I'll need to read up on how exactly Che works, first 22:46 <+doy> TGWi: allowing armour swapping without getting a piety hit 22:46 < scarf> I'm not good at playing slow characters, so I've never managed to test him 22:47 < TGWi> doy: can't you just do that 22:47 <+doy> "just do that"? 22:48 < TGWi> allow armour swapping without getting a piety hit 22:48 <+doy> but how? 22:49 < TGWi> remove the piety hit? 22:49 < TGWi> like the prayer but always 22:49 <+doy> so... then people can just take off their ponderous armour whenever they want to run away 22:50 < TGWi> so make it take a long time 22:50 < scarf> ok, so the issue is that what we want is that players should choose whether to slow themselves for long periods of time, or not 22:50 < scarf> but not keep swapping 22:50 -!- Twinge_ is now known as Twinge 22:50 < Eifel> Is crawl a funny game??? I just read the german description of the ubuntu crawl packet. 22:51 < scarf> Eifel: the description for NetHack makes it out to be much funnier than it is 22:51 < scarf> so I assume that whoever's packaging them does that for all roguelikes 22:51 <+by> TGWi: leave all the rats and goblins alive, go upstairs, change clothes, go downstairs, kill them 22:52 < Eifel> scarf: they even translatet stone soup to german.... 22:52 < scarf> what about armour becoming unponderous when it's removed, and pondering it gives you a piety hit? 22:52 < TGWi> scarf's solution is interesting! 22:52 < scarf> I'll put it on the wiki 22:53 <+doy> dpeg wants ponderousify to also make the armour better, eventually 22:53 <+doy> not sure how that would interact with those plans 22:53 < bhaak> Kerkerkrabblersteinsuppe? 22:53 <+by> scarf: great, thanks 22:53 < bhaak> sounds yummy :) 22:54 < Eifel> Steinsuppenvariante von Dungeon Crawl. 22:54 < TGWi> doy: attach the bonus to chei instead of the armour 22:54 < TGWi> +X AC per pondered article 22:54 <+doy> TGWi: possible 22:54 <+doy> dpeg was talking about the potential for it creating randarts, but i think i disagree with that anyway 22:54 < TGWi> yeah don't do that 22:55 < bhaak> Translation is a matter of luck. I know that :) 22:55 <+by> it's not ideal that you can make a GDA of ponderousness but not a robe of resistance of ponderousness... 22:55 < TGWi> I forget, is anything about GDA ideal? 22:56 <+doy> did we ever knock down the ac of gda? 22:56 <+doy> or were we just talking about it 22:56 <+by> yes, I think so 22:56 < TGWi> yeah you did 22:57 < TGWi> it's 11 I think 22:57 < scarf> randartifying things has the risk of ruining some really good armour; it would be a high-risk strategy 22:57 < scarf> and some players don't like that 22:57 -!- hashc [n=hash@adsl-68-76-123-64.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:57 < Eifel> Something shouldn't be translated at all 22:57 <+doy> scarf: well, that's not really a reasonable argument 22:57 < scarf> well, yes 22:57 < scarf> I'm more thinking aloud 22:58 <+doy> crawl is all about high-risk strategies, whines about that are probably some of the most annoying ones 22:59 < scarf> hmm, I reached Snake:5 today for the first time 22:59 < scarf> and it struck me as a) looking like a branch end, and b) being relatively easy for one 22:59 < scarf> I died on Snake:4 before I got the rune, to a single anaconda 22:59 < scarf> rather than the mobs on the level below 22:59 <+by> scarf: then you were probably lucky on Snake:5 22:59 <+doy> scarf: lair and orc are the only branches without actual branch ends 22:59 <+by> hasted greater naga can be terrifying 22:59 < Eronarn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZWus82h3MY&feature=player_embedded required viewing for anoyne who doesn't support adding more plant monsters :D 23:00 <+doy> "looking like a branch end" is intentional for most of the game 23:00 < scarf> I was basically going downstairs, summoning a few demons, waiting until something came next to me and then going upstairs 23:00 < scarf> (it /is/ a branch end, right?) 23:00 <+doy> yes 23:00 < TGWi> eronarn: there are the dudes that completley curl up when you touch them 23:00 <+by> I sometimes think Snake has 6 levels, which has caused some nasty surprises 23:01 <+doy> anacondas are tough, but not really anywhere near the difficulty of greater nagas 23:01 < scarf> the greater nagas were much easier 23:01 < scarf> summon, summon, summon, summon, run 23:01 < scarf> (100 turns later) you feel a bit more experienced 23:01 < scarf> if they got anywhere near catching up with me, I went up a level and did it agtain 23:01 < scarf> *again 23:02 <+doy> !lg ais523 23:02 < Henzell> 32. ais523 the Cleaver (L8 MDFi), worshipper of Okawaru, blasted by an orc priest (divine providence) on D:6 on 2010-01-01, with 1372 points after 4329 turns and 0:23:29. 23:02 < scarf> doy: local 23:02 <+doy> lame 23:02 < scarf> not really, I rarely play Crawl while I have an internet connection 23:02 <+doy> makhleb? 23:02 < scarf> yep 23:02 <+doy> yeah, that's a reasonable strategy 23:02 < scarf> I was leaking piety rather through Snake, but got it all back towards the end 23:02 <+doy> pretty heavy on the piety though 23:03 < MarvinPA> makhleb can handle snake:5 quite nicely, yeah 23:03 < scarf> ah, must have just been lucky in my choice of god 23:03 <+doy> makhleb is pretty good all around 23:03 < scarf> I can appreciate how insanely hard Crawl is to balance 23:03 < scarf> because all sorts of things are trivial for one character, and near-impossible for another 23:04 <+doy> yup 23:04 < scarf> there was one hilarious time that I quit in the entry vault because I was getting close to starving to death in it 23:04 < scarf> it was the one with lots of plants blocking your way out, and I was playing a pure caster with very little way to kill them 23:04 < ogaz> doy: well, there's the hard snake:5 and the easy snake:5. The easy one is somewhat underwhelming 23:04 <+doy> ogaz: true enough 23:04 <+doy> although depends on how you play it 23:05 < scarf> strangely, I think things like symmetry make a branch end much harder 23:05 < scarf> it makes a huge difference whether monsters catch up to you all at once or one at a time 23:06 < scarf> same in regular levels too, come to think of it, but less obvious 23:07 -!- kloeri__ [n=kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Broken pipe] 23:07 -!- kloeri__ [n=kloeri@0xbcb112e8.vbrnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined ##crawl-dev 23:11 -!- Twinge_ [n=user@97-124-171-76.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 23:19 < scarf> is "graphics" in Mantis used for display bugs in tty as well as in tiles? 23:19 < scarf> or should it just be "bug report"? 23:19 <+doy> 'graphics' is more of a subcategory of feature request 23:19 <+doy> all bugs should be 'bug report' 23:19 < scarf> ok 23:28 < Ashenzari> travel_delay=-1 or explore_delay=-1 causes strange display as summons expire (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=529) by ais523 23:28 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-153-30.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:29 < scarf> hmm, how do you correctly create Pikel and his band in wizmode? I'm trying to chase down a bug 23:29 < CIA-81> j-p-e-g * rbdf649316405 /crawl-ref/source/rltiles/UNUSED/monsters/centaur_paladin.png: Add a variation of Nessos' tile to UNUSED, for a future CePa unique. 23:30 < scarf> oh, &M pikel band 23:38 < CIA-81> Enne * r1b43f5a16b55 /crawl-ref/source/tilereg.cc: Make flying actors not appear to be in water. 23:38 < Ashenzari> "monster_attack() for monster 'freed slave' consumed no energy \\ 'freed slave' has same energy as last loop" (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=530) by ais523 23:46 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-173-243.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 23:52 -!- Twinge_ [n=user@97-124-171-76.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:58 < Ashenzari> "All hogs revert to their human forms" for non-transformed hogs (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=531) by ogaz