00:06 < Ashenzari> "You hear a splashing noise" message leak (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=460) by caotto
00:20 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-175-97.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
00:29 -!- Twinge_ [n=user@97-124-160-197.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
00:35 -!- Twinge-- [n=user@97-124-166-57.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
00:37 -!- Twinge- [n=user@97-124-154-241.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [No route to host]
00:40 -!- Twinge_ [n=user@97-124-160-197.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
00:45 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-175-97.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [No route to host]
00:48 < Napkin> sorear?
00:48 <+sorear> yes?
00:48 < Napkin> any idea why gretell doesn't know about the archer statue?
00:48 < Napkin> I just updated monster-trunk - but that didn't help
00:49 <+sorear> Gretell only checks the actual monster database
00:49 < Napkin> and archer statue is not in it?
00:49 <+sorear> there is no 'archer statue' monster in the database
00:50 < Napkin> how come?
00:50 <+sorear> it is possible for vaults to define monsters that aren't in the Crawl core
00:50 < Napkin> oh
00:50 < Napkin> that's a nice feature for vaults, but gretell not able to give info is suboptimal
00:51 < Napkin> could that statue just be added?
00:51 <+due> Oh
00:51 < Napkin> hey, moin Due! :)
00:51 <+due> Napkin: Perhaps Gretell could generate vaults and the statistics of monsters found in them?
00:52 -!- Twinge-- is now known as Twinge
00:52 <+due> Otherwise I can make you up a patch by hand for the vault-specific monsters.
00:52 < Napkin> urgs - definitely out of my league
00:52 <+due>  Should I speak to Darshan?
00:52 < Napkin> any idea, sorear?
00:53 < Napkin> or mister magic might have, true ;)
00:53 <+due> How does it generate monsters?
00:54 <+due> &M in wizmode or something like that?
00:54 <+due> If it's using monster specs, perhaps we could just give Gretell alises for the monster specs?
00:54 <+due> As in, "archer statue" = "statue name:archer name_suffix etc"
00:55 < Napkin> mons_spec spec = mons.get_monster(0); <- that what you were asking for, right?
00:56 < Napkin> mon_list.get_monster() that is
00:56 <+due> Oh, interesting.
00:56 <+due> In that case, you should be able to pass it a spec.
00:56 < Napkin> and later dgn_place_monster()
00:57 <+due> Is the source on git?
00:57 < Napkin> But greensnark and sorear made "monster" do something useful - in the beginning I just did a dirty hack
00:57 < Napkin> well, wait
00:57 < Napkin> now it is
00:57 < Napkin> you remember the url?
00:57 <+due> No, sorry
00:57 <+due> And I'm leaving in two minutes. Can you PM it?
00:57 < Napkin> sure thing
00:58  * due runs.
01:17 < TGW> I am a fan of new swamp
01:18 <+due> I am a great fan of any changes to swamp.
01:18 < TGW> due: replace all monsters with swamp worms
01:19 <+due> ... no.
01:19 <+due> Not those sort of changes.
01:26 < TGW> by the way
01:26 < TGW> ice form needs to be amphibious
01:26 <+due> Hm.
01:26 <+due> You're right, it should be.
01:27 < TGW> cool!
01:28 < TGW> should I FR that?
01:28 <+due> Yes, I think it's a good idea.
01:39 <+due> !tell dpeg Can you link to the CDO blog from the main page of crawl-ref.sourceforge.net? A friend of mine who follows DCSS development thought the blog was cool, but that it might be a good idea to link it from the "project home", as it were.
01:39 < Henzell> due: OK, I'll let dpeg know.
01:42 < Ashenzari> Make ice form amphibious (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=461) by TGW
01:47 < Eronarn> 18:56 <+due> Otherwise I can make you up a patch by hand for the vault-specific monsters.
01:47 < Eronarn> would it be possible to like, have a "special monsters" file
01:48 < Eronarn> rather than storing them in the vault itself
01:48 <+due> Why bother?
01:48 < Eronarn> still the simple lua to generate them, but store it in another place so there's one clear thing to look at when you want to know where all the non-mon-def monsters are located
01:48 <+due> hm.
01:48 <+due> Sure, it's doable.
01:49 <+due> It would be saner to store the actual text definitions there.
01:49 < Eronarn> yes, and that way if multiple vaults use the same monster
01:49 < Eronarn> you can't get updates to only one version
01:49 <+due> It's a pain though, I'll have to thin kabout it.
01:50 < Eronarn> due: it could also be just a documentation file automatically generated by searching for any new commits that add any of the monster-modification properties
01:50 <+due> Or it could be a lua parser instead.
01:50 <+due> That would be simpler + saner.
01:51 < Eronarn> something would definitely be nice, though
01:51 < Eronarn> we may also want to visit the custom monsters in general - dpeg has already noted he doesn't want them getting out of hand
01:52 < Eronarn> i think they're a *great* thing, but i wonder if we shouldn't instead make it easier to add new "real" monsters
01:55 <+due> We're limiting custom monsters to specific portal vaults and really, really limited to some vaults.
01:55 <+due> Such as archer statues, etc.
01:56 <+sorear> that stuff isn't limited to portal vaults though
01:56 <+sorear> Mu's ancient champions :(
01:56 <+due> sorear: Yeah, which is going to become a portal vault eventually.
01:56 <+due> And my mutated, fire-breathing rats.
01:56 <+due> <3
01:57 <+due> Got to run, bye.
01:58 < Eronarn> ancient champions?
02:03 -!- ogaz [n=chatzill@adsl-76-198-70-175.dsl.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
02:03 < CIA-81> Enne * r227420e531ae /crawl-ref/source/ (14 files in 3 dirs): Tile transparency in water without overlays.
02:07 -!- AceTetra [n=AceTetra@97-126-73-66.tukw.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
02:08 < TGW> I don't see what the problem with making monster creation easier is
02:09 < TGW> opens up way more than what vaults do now, and it all has to go through devs anyway
02:22 < Eronarn> yes, agreed
02:28 <+due> TGW: Darshan was moving all monster creation into Lua, anyway.
02:28 <+sorear> I begin to suspect that he gave up
02:28 < TGW> due: does that make it easier?
02:28 <+due> Yes.
02:29 <+due> Infinitely.
02:29 <+due> sorear: My thoughts precisely.
02:29 < TGW> I don't know how it works now
02:29 <+due> Currently, creating a new monster means giving it a new enum value in enum.h
02:29 <+due> And defniing the relevant information in mon-data.h
02:29 <+due> Then recompiling and debugging.
02:29 < TGW> lol
02:29 <+sorear> Let's delete enum.h while nobody is looking
02:30 <@elly> :P
02:30 <@elly> I want to delete defines.h for angband
02:30 <+due> Why?
02:30 <@elly> because it makes my life difficult
02:30 <+sorear> elly: does 'make' after any change to defines.h take 20 minutes?
02:30 <@elly> no
02:30 <@elly> it makes my life difficult in the sense that it causes there to be many arrays which must align with those in defines.h
02:31 -!- Netsplit kubrick.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Zannick, timecircuits, +pointless_
02:32 <@elly> after a clean:
02:32  * elly starts a make
02:32 <@elly> ~/s/angband/src$ time make -f Makefile.std 2>/dev/null 1>/dev/null
02:32 <@elly> real    0m21.128s
02:32 <@elly> user    0m19.200s
02:32 <@elly> sys     0m1.524s
02:32 <@elly> not exactly irritating
02:33 <+due> Die, angband, die.
02:33 <+sorear> let's, uh, find out what compiler Elly is using and port Crawl to that
02:34 <+due> Hehehe
02:34 <@elly> sorear:
02:34 <+due> Is angband C++, though?
02:34 <@elly> ~/s/angband/src$ gcc -v 2>&1 | grep 'gcc version'
02:34 <@elly> gcc version 4.4.2 (Gentoo 4.4.2 p1.0) 
02:35 <@elly> sorear: it is probably this:
02:35 <@elly>  smartctl -a /dev/sda | grep 'Model:'
02:35 <@elly> Device Model:     SAMSUNG SSD PB22-JS3 FDE 2.5" 256GB
02:36 <@elly> or this:
02:36 <@elly> Mem:          3951        706       3245          0         25        532
02:36 <@elly> or this: ~# cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep bogo
02:36 <@elly> bogomips        : 5053.88
02:36 <@elly> bogomips        : 5053.73
02:36 <@elly> :P
02:38 <+sorear> more memory does not mean faster compiles
02:38 <@elly> yes it does; more room for the kernel to keep fs caches
02:38 <@elly> (not that it matters for an ssd)
02:38 <+sorear> once you exceed the working set, though
02:38 <@elly> sure
02:39 <+sorear> g++ on Crawl uses only about 100MB of RAM + disk
02:39 <@elly> gcc doesn't use much ram compiling angband, really
02:39 <@elly> but anyway, the CPUs and disk are very relevant :P
02:40 <+due> heading home, back later
02:48 -!- pointless_ [n=chatzill@ool-4576ec48.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
02:48 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v pointless_] by ChanServ
02:53 -!- timecircuits [n=Adium@pool-71-246-66-203.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
02:53 -!- Zannick [n=mick@PROTEUS.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined ##crawl-dev
03:08 -!- B0RG1N [n=brgn@166.205.137.82] has joined ##crawl-dev
03:09 -!- B0RG1N [n=brgn@166.205.137.82] has quit [Client Quit]
03:22 -!- nrook [n=nrook@ip68-14-16-167.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
03:59 -!- N78291 [n=null@130-127-45-6.chouse.resnet.clemson.edu] has joined ##crawl-dev
03:59 < N78291> are trees buggy? monsters don't seem to be treating them as wall for beam targeting
04:07 -!- AceTetra [n=AceTetra@97-126-73-66.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
04:12 -!- eith [n=eith@86-40-245-49-dynamic.b-ras2.lmk.limerick.eircom.net] has left ##crawl-dev ["Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away"]
04:12 -!- eith [n=eith@86-40-245-49-dynamic.b-ras2.lmk.limerick.eircom.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
04:20 < CIA-81> pointless_ * r856be18105f4 /crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Let players cast sunlight on themselves
04:25 < TGW> why is strong poison lightgrey?
04:34 <+due> N78291: Hm, they might be.
04:34 <+due> N78291: They're considered a solid feature though, so I'm not sure why. Is this a single layer of trees, or two layers of trees?
04:35 < N78291> just one row of trees
04:35 < N78291> maybe it is that firedrake breath won't ignite trees?
04:35 <+due> Hm, firedrake breath should ignite trees... 
04:35 <+due> They should be treating it like transparent glass though.
04:36 < purge> !tell dpeg can you ask jpeg to look at http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=449 and post comments about the video i uploaded
04:36 < Henzell> purge: OK, I'll let dpeg know.
04:37 <+due> I'm for it, myself.
04:37 < purge> due: I'd like jpeg to be on board too though :D if she still thinks the clouds look bad i will redo them
04:38 <+due> I like the clouds myself.
04:38 <+due> I'm still trying to work out how best to implement thick gloom in tiles.
04:38 <+due> Currently, it's using a 32 x 32 purple overlay.
04:39 < TGW> couldn't you make the whole thing transparent purple
04:39 < purge> and its supposed to basically be pure darkness right?
04:40 <+due> purge: Well, gloom--it's thick shadow, but not pure darkness.
04:40 <+due> TGW: That's what's currently being used. It's fugly.
04:40 < TGW> hey I don't know how big a tile is
04:41 < purge> due: slightly transparent black doesn't look good?
04:41 < N78291> how about the lantern of shadows effect?
04:41 <+due> N78291: Interesting. I'm not sure what that is in tiles, but good idea.
04:43 <+greensnark> Can lantern of shadows produce thick gloom too? :D
04:43 <+due> greensnark: I like the idea. A greensnark!
04:44 < TGW> cure mut just failed to cure either of two mutations
04:44 < TGW> I've no amulet
04:45 < TGW> are there any mutation loss messages containing "in a puff of smoke?"
04:46 <+due> Not that I know of.
04:49 -!- ortoslon [n=chatzill@host-89-31-115-253.academ.org] has joined ##crawl-dev
04:50 < Xiberia> maybe it was a shapeshifter potion of cure mutation
04:50 < Xiberia> that was sleeping when you picked it up
04:51 < TGW> rCorr save chance could bear to use a more logical formula, I think
04:51 < TGW> erm, the enchantment save
04:51 < TGW> from acid
04:51 <+due> What, +4?
04:51 < TGW> it's useless at 1-2 and pretty much full at 4
04:51 < TGW> ??acid[2]
04:51 < Henzell> acid[2/3]: If an item is not immune: having resist corrosion saves the item 9 times out of 10. Failing that, dwarven items and crystal plate mail save 4 times out of 5. Failing that, the item's plus (from 0 to 4, positive or negative) will cause it to save 6%, 18%, 34%, 58%, or 98% of the time.
04:52 < TGW> could use the mulch save, for example
05:03 < Eronarn> i think it's be a lot more interesting if you had to hit +9 for full immunity, but +0 was much higher immune
05:05 -!- eith [n=eith@86-40-245-49-dynamic.b-ras2.lmk.limerick.eircom.net] has quit [No route to host]
05:09 -!- Iainuki [n=NoOne@unaffiliated/iainuki] has joined ##crawl-dev
05:11 <+due> There's only one problem with the baba yaga hut idea.
05:12 <+due> What glyph do we use for the hut?
05:13 <+greensnark> 8
05:13 <+due> Hm.
05:13 <+greensnark> Unless it's a multitile monster
05:13 <+due> Not multitile, no.
05:13 <+due> \?
05:13 <+greensnark> Is it a monster or a feature?
05:13 <+greensnark> \ also works
05:14 <+greensnark> But use the arch char so that players who change it also get the right character
05:14 <+greensnark> As also the DEC/unicode folks
05:14 <+due> Hm
05:14 -!- N78291 [n=null@130-127-45-6.chouse.resnet.clemson.edu] has quit ["exit"]
05:14 <+due> I suppose 8 works.
05:14 <+greensnark> Does the hut attack? :D
05:14 <+due> I'm not sure.
05:14 <+greensnark> It should be amphibious
05:14 <+due> I think it should be able to trample you.
05:14 <+greensnark> With duck feet!
05:14 <+due> # maybe?
05:15 <+due> # seems more hut-like.
05:15 <+greensnark> \ is better
05:15 <+due> I'll ask dpeg :)
05:15 <+greensnark> But the player will be surprised by a moving \ that beats them up
05:15 <+due> Are you cgoing to code up alligators and crocodiles todya?
05:16 <+greensnark> No, they're all yours :)
05:16  * greensnark has to work today.
05:16 <+sorear> Wait, are people actually implementing the hut? :/
05:16 <+due> Yes.
05:16 <+greensnark> Hut would be good as a multitile monster, but that'd be a lot more work
05:16 <+due> Unless dpeg says no.
05:16 <+sorear> If I thought there was a nonzero chance it would be implemented I would have complained when it was filed
05:16 <+greensnark> Maybe postpone the hut
05:16 <+due> Or there is major "nooo!".
05:16 <+greensnark> Someone already requested Baba Yaga?
05:17 <+sorear> But I was lazy and I counted on the coders to Just Know it was a bad idea
05:17 <+greensnark> Apparently there are other people with good taste
05:17 <+due> The other option is that we could just have a "hut" map like Crazy Yiuf's in Swamp.
05:17 <+sorear> due: I would like that better.  Even if it occasionally shifted.
05:18 <+due> Hm.
05:18 <+due> A moving multi-tile map?
05:18 <+sorear> Treating the hut as a one-tile monster raises lots of icky internal consistancy problems.
05:18 <+sorear> Unless you make it blue and flying.
05:18 <+due> Well, that was the intent.
05:18 < ortoslon> have whips been boosted?
05:18 <+due> Not so much flying but walking around on pseudolegs.
05:19 <+due> sorear: http://images.elfwood.com/art/r/e/reuben/reubencdodd_baba_yagas_hut.jpg
05:20 <+sorear> (what, no comment on the blue flying one-tile hut?)
05:20 <+due> I didn't realise there was anything to comment on?
05:20 <+sorear> I would make it look like Yiuf's vault, but with a bit of Lua fanciness so it occasionally shifts over
05:21 <+sorear> as in, bulk-copy the map 1 tile in some direction
05:21 <+due> The idea was that you had to chase it around the map first.
05:22 <+sorear> And once you get in, you shift with it.
05:22 <+due> It's really not doable at the minute, to be honest.
05:22 <+sorear> that sounds like a challenge
05:23 <+due> I'd really like to have it literally move around the map though!
05:23 <+sorear> I could do that!
05:23 <+due> At high speed!
05:23 <+due> Until you hit it enough so that it breaks!
05:23 <+due> And baba yaga comes out and eats you!
05:23 <+sorear> It could have flame generators mounted on each side
05:24 <+sorear> Described as 'A jet engine.'
05:24 <+due> Heheheh.
05:29 -!- Cryp71c [n=Cryp71c@c-68-53-104-165.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
05:29 < Cryp71c> Do trolls not get claws anymore?
05:30 <+due> Just started one, have "Claws for hands" mutation.
05:30 < Cryp71c> due, ah, yeah. sorry was looking at %
05:32 -!- ogaz [n=chatzill@adsl-76-198-70-175.dsl.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Success]
05:34 <+pointless_> So why does monsters::get_foe return null  for friendly monsters that have foe == MHITYOU? 
05:35 < Zannick> foe == MHITYOU means they're trying to move to your location
05:35 <+pointless_> Yes I know
05:35 <+pointless_> Why doesn't monsters::get_foe return a pointer to the player in that case?
05:36 < Zannick> i guess get_foe returns the enemy they want to hit?
05:37 <+greensnark> pointless_: get_foe returns only stuff that the monster will be willing to attack, I think
05:37 <+pointless_> Do we want to keep it that way?
05:37 <+greensnark> It'll probably break stuff if changed
05:38 <+greensnark> You'd have to inspect all uses of get_foe
05:38 < Zannick> i think the foe variable is poorly named, though
05:38 < Zannick> considering it's not always the 'foe' in the same respect
05:38 <+greensnark> Zannick: A lot of variables are
05:38 < Zannick> that tripped me up when i was reading through that awhile ago
05:38 <+pointless_> I'm looking at a bug where monsters::get_foe is being used incorrectly, so I guess I'll just fix that
05:38 <+greensnark> pointless_: Could add a get_target() that always returns the foe
05:38 <+greensnark> Or similar
05:43 -!- Cryp71c [n=Cryp71c@c-68-53-104-165.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
05:48 < TGW> nikola is just unfair
05:48 < TGW> he's like a titanic slime, but he starts merged and he attacks at range
06:00 < CIA-81> pointless_ * rd4abb0d1e06a /crawl-ref/source/mon-behv.cc: Fix allies making a beeline for the map origin when out of LOS
06:05 -!- Henzell [n=henzell@crawl.akrasiac.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
06:06 -!- Henzell [n=henzell@crawl.akrasiac.org] has joined ##crawl-dev
06:08 -!- purge [n=IceChat7@d192-24-82-173.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit ["!"]
06:22 <+greensnark> w00t
06:23 <+greensnark> Google search for "Dungeon Crawl" finally puts DCSS above the obsolete dungeoncrawl.org site
06:23 <+greensnark> We have overcome <3
06:23 <+greensnark> Only took four years :P
06:26 < TGW> next stop: linley's dungeon crawl
06:26 <+sorear> <3
06:27 <+sorear> #5 and #6 for 'crawl'
06:27 <+sorear> with dungeoncrawl.org at #8
06:28 < TGW> cao is #1 for me
06:28 <+greensnark> If you're signed in, try signing out
06:28 < TGW> hm yeah
06:28 <+greensnark> Signing in makes Google treat you differently
06:28 <+greensnark> Based on your past searches
06:28 <+greensnark> And past clicks
06:28 < TGW> we're behind a youtube video? seriously?
06:28 <+greensnark> :P
06:29 < TGW> can we assassinate chris brown? I think it would be justified
06:29 <+pointless_> That would just make the youtube video more popular
06:29 < Zannick> i see a link that says "view customizations" which i can click
06:29 < Zannick> then i can click to view without improvements
06:29 < Zannick> in case you don't want to log out of google
06:30 < TGW> cao is still #4
06:30 < TGW> interesting that it's higher than the sourceforge
06:49 -!- Vandal|LT [n=dissiden@cpe-75-185-204-99.woh.res.rr.com] has quit []
07:05 < ortoslon> sourceforge's higher for me
07:05 < ortoslon> i have web history turned off
07:05 <+doy> cao is #4 for "crawl" for me
07:05 <+doy> which is pretty sweet
07:06 <+doy> sf being #6
07:07 < CIA-81> greensnark * re15bfc7dc651 /crawl-ref/source/dat/uniques.des: Don't allow Ilsuiw to appear on Shoal:1-2.
07:14 -!- Mu_ [i=Mu@cpc14-live9-0-0-cust109.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##crawl-dev
07:21 -!- pointless_ [n=chatzill@ool-4576ec48.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]"]
07:27 -!- hashc [n=hash@adsl-68-76-123-64.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
07:32 < TGW> I had high hopes for that commit when I saw "don't allow ilsuiw to appear..."
07:32 < TGW> but one line break later I was plunged back into spiralling depression
07:33 <+greensnark> She's generated invisible on Shoal:1-2
07:38 -!- hashc [n=hash@adsl-68-76-123-64.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
07:38 -!- henryci [n=henry@c-71-232-165-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
07:39 < henryci> Has there been any consideration to moving the current project to Github?
07:41 -!- ortoslon [n=chatzill@host-89-31-115-253.academ.org] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]"]
07:44 <+doy> killing pikel and going from xl5 to xl8 seems excessive, to me
07:45 <+greensnark> @??Pikel
07:45 < Gretell> Pikel (K) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 40 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Damage: 9 | Res: magic(24) | Chunks: poisonous | XP: 983.
07:46 <+greensnark> Something about his slaves' xp being attached to him as well
07:46 <+doy> yeah
07:46 <+greensnark> It is a rather delicious parcel of xp
07:46 <+greensnark> Since he's pretty easy to separate and extinguish
07:46 <+doy> yeah
07:55 < Twinge> And it was 1050 before I tweaked it :P  Everyone insisted that it stay high though...
07:55 < Twinge> Maybe if the pack AI was improved and they stuck together more or something
07:59 < henryci> What about a recall ability if he gets seperated?
08:02 -!- syllogism [i=syllogis@85-131-29-195.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##crawl-dev
08:15 < TGW> @?spiny worm
08:15 < Gretell> spiny worm (w) | Speed: 9 | HD: 12 | Health: 36-96 | AC/EV: 10/6 | Damage: 32(acid) | Res: magic(48), acid+++ | Vul: poison | Chunks: poisonous | XP: 542.
08:15 < TGW> @??spiny worm
08:15 < Gretell> spiny worm (w) | Speed: 9 | HD: 12 | Health: 36-96 | AC/EV: 10/6 | Damage: 32(acid) | Res: magic(48), acid+++ | Vul: poison | Chunks: poisonous | XP: 541.
08:16 < TGW> where does it say spiny worm attacks are poisonous?
08:22 <+doy> sounds like something sorear would know
08:22 <+sorear> somewhere in fight.cc
08:23 < TGW> shouldn't gretell know?
08:23 <+sorear> no
08:23 <+sorear> because it's not actually in the monsterdb
08:23 < TGW> :|
08:29 -!- ogaz [n=chatzill@adsl-76-198-70-175.dsl.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
08:42 -!- syllogism [i=syllogis@85-131-29-195.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
09:06 < CIA-81> greensnark * rf7867134d3d5 /crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Scale berserk maxhp also by 1.5 (hp was 1.5x, maxhp was 2x).
09:08 <+doy> heh, i thought something seemed off with berserk hp
09:08 <+doy> didn't bother to actually look at it closely
09:09 <+greensnark> My mistake :)
09:10 <+due> Hii.
09:10 < Henzell> due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
09:10 <+due> !messages
09:10 < Henzell> (1/1) greensnark said (44m 16s ago): Mara can apparently create player illusions while not in player LOS
09:10 <+due> Hm.
09:10 <+due> Yes, he can.
09:11 <+due> henryci, no, but there's discussion about moving it.
09:11 < henryci> due what's stopping people?
09:11 <+due> Er.
09:11 <+due> I've no idea? It's not serious discussion.
09:11 <+due> More of "wouldn't it be nice".
09:11 <+due> SourceForge has sufficed for the time being.
09:12 <+due> My todo list, it is long.
09:12 <+due> greensnark: Should I make alligators and crocodiles then?
09:12 <+greensnark> Maybe pick one?
09:12 < henryci> After I check in the CTRL+O stuff, you think I'd be able to champion that effort?
09:13 <+due> greensnark: I'd like both, but the question is which is the more "powerful".
09:13 <+due> @??big fish
09:13 < Gretell> big fish (;) | Speed: 10 | HD: 4 | Health: 12-32 | AC/EV: 1/12 | Damage: 8 | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: magic(16) | XP: 41.
09:13 < henryci> My company relies on github for so much that I've come to see a lot of value in having somebody else managing the project hosting.  Ep, since it would be free for Crawl.
09:13 <+due> It also means finding a new colour for big fish.
09:13 <+due> Or should I use a glyph other than ; for alligators/crocodiles?
09:14 <+due> Also, I need to sort out this blasted marker.
09:14 <+doy> alligators/crocodiles could be t
09:14 <+due> doy: ooooh.
09:14 <+due> Brown and yellow t!
09:15 <+due> greensnark: Thoughts?
09:16 <+due> I'm thinking blue t, baby alligator; lightblue t, alligator; yellow t, crocodile.
09:16 <+due> And alligator packs!
09:17 <+greensnark> People have trouble distinguishing alligators and crocs in real life :)
09:17 <+greensnark> What's the difference going to be in Crawl?
09:17 <+due> We'll also need gharials.
09:17 <+due> I've no idea.
09:17 <+due> Maybe just do alligators, then?
09:17 <+greensnark> Yes, I think picking one would work better
09:18 <+due> What do you think of gharials?
09:18 <+greensnark> They're cuuute
09:18 <+greensnark> Oh, you mean as monsters
09:18 <+due> I knooow.
09:18 <+due> Yes.
09:18 <+greensnark> I'd suggest restricting them to portal vaults with fresh wter
09:18 <+greensnark> Not in the Swamp
09:18 <+due> True.
09:19 <+greensnark> Although we violated the habitat rule big time with turtles :)
09:19 <+due> Okay, so alligators and baby alligators for Swamp!
09:19 <+due> Heh.
09:19 <+greensnark> Both the turtles are supposed to be freshwater turtles :P
09:19 <+due> Awkward!
09:19 <+greensnark> They evolve fast in the magical environment of the Crawl dungeon
09:19 <+due> Of course.
09:20 <+greensnark> If you do include alligators and crocodiles, need a way to differentiate them
09:20 <+greensnark> Maybe make crocs stronger, but alligators in packs, etc.
09:21 <+Keskitalo> due: re: alligators/crocodiles, please replace giant lizard with one (rename + amphibious would suffice for a start)
09:21 <+greensnark> And some Swamp minivaults with ambush alligators
09:23 <+due> Keskitalo: Hm.
09:23 <+greensnark> Alligator god in Swamp
09:23 <+greensnark> :P
09:23 <+due> greensnark: Alligator packs! A mummy alligator with five young.
09:23 <+greensnark> For a moment I thought you meant mummified alligator
09:23 <+due> Actually, converting giant lizard into an alligator isn't that bad of an idea.
09:23 <+due> Do we want to dump giant lizards?
09:24 <+greensnark> Why not, they're not very interesting
09:24 <+due> That's what I was thinking.
09:24 <+Keskitalo> due: Oh, I guess you will do a lot more functionality.. anyway, I still think getting rid of plain boring monsters would be good.
09:24 <+due> But how t omake alligators more interesting
09:24 <+Keskitalo> due: Yes, not a bad idea! :)
09:24 <+Keskitalo> due: Glad you agree. :)
09:24 <+greensnark> Alligators could grab the player and keep them from fleeing
09:24 <+Keskitalo> Only consideration is that their power should be about the same.
09:24 <+greensnark> It would be a fair bit of code though
09:24 <+due> greensnark: That sounds like hard work.
09:24 <+due> Keskitalo: That's why I'm kinda unsure.
09:25 <+greensnark> Alligators could run in short bursts
09:25 <+greensnark> So a short-lived swiftness-like effect?
09:25 <+greensnark> I think real crocs can match a running human over short distances
09:25 <+due> Oooh, now that is interesting.
09:25 <+greensnark> Don't know about real alligators :P
09:25 <+Keskitalo> greensnark: There's a few monsters where such grab/hug is suggested: nagas, new snake for Snake, bears, kraken tentacles..
09:25 <+due> I think the actual speed would be an interesting one.
09:26 <+due> Now the question is whether or not it could be done just by using energy and movement.
09:26 <+due> We could also give them tail slap attacks.
09:27 <+Keskitalo> due: jpeg is going to link to the blog on the crd home page, there was just some trouble updating the page
09:28 < Eronarn> Gharials! :3
09:28 <+greensnark> Gharials should catch fish
09:29 < Eronarn> Gharials should be in rivers in Desert
09:29 <+greensnark> And alligators should occasionally go after a yak :P
09:30 < ogaz> that's one hungry alligator
09:32 < Eronarn> one thing that could make alligators more interesting: they are not as aggressive as other monsters
09:32 < Eronarn> can refuse to take interest, or lose interest, if they'd need to move too far to get you
09:33 <+greensnark> That's a good idea
09:33 <+greensnark> They shouldn't acquire a foe unless it attacks them or gets too close <3
09:33 <+due> Keskitalo: Ah, awesome.
09:34 <+due> greensnark: Now that sounds interesting.
09:36 < Eronarn> that could be interesting for some shoals monster, too
09:36 < Eronarn> - maybe the "sharks have ` as fins" thing, but half the time you get a dolphin instead of a shark
09:36 <+due> Hehehe.
09:36 < Eronarn> so if you see a ` you can't tell whether it's going to come after you or not
09:36 <+due> We have dolphins?
09:37 <+Keskitalo> Then TSO blasts you with holy fire.
09:37 < Eronarn> due: no, but they'd work well in shoals with that gimmick
09:37 < Eronarn> and the normal fish in shoals are boring, anyhow
09:37 < Eronarn> so i wouldn't feel bad about replacing them with more sharks/dolphins, really
09:37 <+due> Normal fish are boring.
09:38 <+due> Did I show off my Snake-ending-in-progress?
09:38 <+due> http://sprunge.us/JJaG
09:38 <+Keskitalo> Nice shape. :)
09:38 < Eronarn> oh niiiice
09:38 <+due> Keskitalo: On second thoughts, if we're going to limit alligators to Swamp, maybe replacing giant lizards isn't a good idea.
09:38 < Eronarn> is it going to be a big guardian serpent vault?
09:39 <+due> Eronarn: I've no idea; I'm still not sure about the shape.
09:39 < Eronarn> due: one of the proposals is that no good items spawn on snake 1-5, but that an equivalent amount are inside a big vault at the end of snake 5
09:39 <+Keskitalo> due: hey.. ..sewer alligators.. !!
09:39 <+due> Keskitalo: Well, yeah.
09:39 <+Keskitalo> :)
09:40 <+due> Keskitalo: But I meant, in general, they aren't going to spawn outside of Swamp.
09:40 <+due> Portal vaults are fine.
09:40 < Eronarn> @??giant iguana
09:40 < Gretell> giant iguana (l) | Speed: 10 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 5/9 | Damage: 15 | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: magic(12) | XP: 36.
09:40 < Eronarn> @??giant lizard
09:40 < Gretell> giant lizard (l) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 15-40 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Damage: 20 | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: magic(20) | XP: 104.
09:41 <+due> I think they should be made more interesting (fire-breathing, say), but replacing them with alligators would mean removing them from the early part of the game, if we wanted them swamp-unique, or making them not swamp-unique.
09:41 < Eronarn> hm... replace iguanas with crocs, giant lizards where giant iguanas used to spawn (maybe 1 dlvl lower to account for being tougher)?
09:41 <+due> Eronarn: I'm leaning towards that, actually.
09:41 <+due> Or something like that.
09:41 <+due> If alligators are rather timid and will leave you alone, then crocodiles should be the opposite.
09:41 <+greensnark> Don't remove early game iguanas
09:41 <+greensnark> The early game is becoming too easy
09:42 <+due> (Not the replacing iguanas bit
09:42 <+greensnark> Actually it's well into too-easy territory
09:42 <+due> Really?
09:42 <+greensnark> Yep
09:42 < Eronarn> greensnark: you must've misread - i don't mean cutting iguanas from early game
09:42 <+due> Hm. I still die pretty regularly.
09:42 < Eronarn> i mean replacing them with lizards
09:42 <+greensnark> Only the uniques and orc priestses liven it up
09:42 <+greensnark> Eronarn: Yeah, but you'd have to push them deeper
09:42 < Eronarn> greensnark: only a level, tops
09:42 <+greensnark> Which would mean no early iguanas
09:42 <+due> Where's the imbalance from?
09:42 < Eronarn> and a level isn't even strictly necessary
09:42 < Eronarn> @??giant lizard
09:42 <+due> Maybe we need to tweak threat generation. What do we want!? More ogres! When do we want 'em?! Now!!! On D:2!
09:42 < Gretell> giant lizard (l) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 15-40 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Damage: 20 | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: magic(20) | XP: 104.
09:43 < Eronarn> @??ogre
09:43 < Gretell> ogre (O) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 15-40 | AC/EV: 1/6 | Damage: 17 | Res: magic(20) | Chunks: contaminated | XP: 120.
09:43 < Mu_> are you still meant to get trash mutations first on DS, the first three i just got were regen, regen, cold res
09:43 <+greensnark> due: Mostly from the lovely new missiles <3
09:43 <+due> greensnark: Needles?
09:43 <+greensnark> Darts of flame can pwn practically anything you care to name
09:43 < Eronarn> Mu_: DS on CDO is not in any way representative of what it is going to look like eventually
09:43 <+due> Okay, they should be made rarer.
09:43 <+greensnark> Needles less so, because there you need a blowgun
09:43 < Mu_> aight
09:43 <+greensnark> But lots of good dart ammo available early
09:43 <+due> greensnark: I've sutck with the original branded ammo generation.
09:43 <+due> Which I think is now pretty unbalanced.
09:44 <+greensnark> Darts of poison are quite strong now, and generated in generous quantities
09:44 <+due> Poisoned ammo is on my list of quantity nerf
09:44 <+greensnark> Two darts of poison will clean the clock of anything short of D&D :P
09:44 <+greensnark> In the early dungeon
09:44 < Eronarn> ...hm
09:44 <+greensnark> Uniques are good to stir up difficulty, but early uniques still feel too rare
09:44 <+due> greensnark: We can tweak this by having a different balancer for the earlydungeon.
09:45 <+greensnark> Aye
09:45 <+due> anyway, alligators: slow, but have bursts of fast speed; are timid, and will only pick you as a foe if you attack them.
09:45 <+greensnark> Or get too close!
09:45 < Eronarn> greensnark: how would you feel about: drop giant lizard, recycle glyph for crocs/gators, buff giant iguanas to halfway between current and current giant lizards. "giant lizard" is a boring monster name, the two have too similar a niche, iguana could stand for a buff anyways
09:45 <+due> greensnark: Is setting them patrolling and giving their area of water as a patrol point  possible when generating?
09:45 < Eronarn> (with no change in giant iguana depth)
09:46 <+greensnark> Yeah, giant lizards can go
09:46 < Mu_> they should have stealth in the water too :p
09:46 <+greensnark> Or be changed
09:46 <+due> Giant lizards are still an interesting early therat.
09:46 <+greensnark> due: Yes, can be done pretty easily
09:46 < Twinge> @??giant lizard
09:46 < Gretell> giant lizard (l) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 15-40 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Damage: 20 | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: magic(20) | XP: 104.
09:46 < Twinge> @??giant iguana
09:46 < Gretell> giant iguana (l) | Speed: 10 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 5/9 | Damage: 15 | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: magic(12) | XP: 36.
09:46 <+due> greensnark: Excellent.
09:46 < Eronarn> with my proposal, giant iguana: +1 HD, +3 damage or so
09:47 <+due> greensnark: So really, the only thing that needs to be tweaked is how to do bursts of speed.
09:47 <+due> HD 4 with dam 17?
09:47 -!- ortoslon [n=chatzill@host-89-31-115-253.academ.org] has joined ##crawl-dev
09:47 < Mu_> don't sixfirhy have something like speedbursts
09:47 < Eronarn> yes
09:47 <+due> Mu_: Yes.
09:47 <+greensnark> due: Swiftness effect with suitable messages
09:47 <+due> Mu_: Thank you for the reminder.
09:47 <+due> greensnark: That's another option.
09:47 <+due> greensnark: Give them a special ability that gives them swiftness temporarily.
09:48 <+due> And store turncount that they last used the ability or something like that.
09:48 < Eronarn> due: yes, HD 4 dam 17. No change in where they spawn. It's not going to make giant iguanas broken hard early-game, and it makes them close enough to giant lizards to fill the exact same niche they do in lair
09:48 <+greensnark> Why, they can just use the spell, can't they?
09:48 <+greensnark> All you need to change is the spellcasting message
09:48 <+due> greensnark: Hm, true.
09:48 <+due> Oooh, perfect.
09:48 <+greensnark> But if you need a dramatic burst of speed, the sixfirhy thing may be better
09:49 <+greensnark> And dramatic is good
09:49  * greensnark is not familiar with sixfirhies.
09:49 < Eronarn> people have been wanting frogs to jump for a while
09:49 < Eronarn> greensnark: do nothing for a while, then go VERY fast for a while
09:49 <+greensnark> I had a frog FR :P
09:49 < Eronarn> @??sixfirhy
09:49 < Gretell> sixfirhy (4) | Speed: 30 (move: 60%) | HD: 6 | Health: 18-48 | AC/EV: 2/20 | Damage: 12(elec) | Flags: demonic | Res: magic(48) | XP: 260.
09:49 <+greensnark> Frogs should have a chance of dropping dead when they croak :P
09:49 -!- ortoslon [n=chatzill@host-89-31-115-253.academ.org] has quit [Client Quit]
09:49 < Eronarn> i can't wait to see the first person splat on one
09:49 < Eronarn> it's going to be awesome
09:51 < Eronarn> due: Your vault really needs an ouroboros, now that I look at it.
09:53 -!- ogaz [n=chatzill@adsl-76-198-70-175.dsl.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
09:53 <+due> Hm
09:54 <+due> Yeah, swiftness is a good idea, but maybe not quite like this.
09:54 <+greensnark> due: Snake needs Kukulkan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukulkan
09:54 <+due> Sixfirhy is good, but I think I'd go with speed 20 or so as the base.
09:55 <+due> 30 is justt too much for bursys.
09:55 <+due> Anyway, door thingies.
09:55 <+due> greensnark: It's being called three times. I think my code is faulty.
09:55 <+due> greensnark: would you mind haivng a look?
09:56 <+due> http://sprunge.us/ENNA
09:56 < Twinge> Swamp needs capybara :D
09:57 <+greensnark> due: Shouldn't it be called 3 times?
09:57 <+greensnark> You have 3 + in the vault
09:57 <+due> It is being called three times.
09:57 <+due> But my opening either of the sets of doors is lifting the flag on all of htem.
09:57 <+greensnark> Oh
09:57 <+due> Oh.
09:58 <+due> :)
09:58 <+due> recompile, place the vault, then generate a human or something outside and then teleport inside and yell.
09:58 <+due> It'll hang around one of the doors.
09:58 <+due> If you open the other, it'll open the one it's next to immediately.
10:00 <+greensnark> One sec, nubinia v Ilsuiw :D
10:00 <+due> Also, some alligators will
10:00 <+due> ooo
10:00 <+due> some alligators will generate as albinos
10:00 <+greensnark> nubinia used a teleport trap :/
10:00 <+due> :(
10:00 <+due> naughty
10:01 <+due> HHAHA turtle <3
10:03 <+greensnark> What branch is this patch for
10:03 <+due> Iskenderun's Mystic Bastion
10:03 <+due> No branch in particular.
10:03 <+greensnark> It wants an lm_door.lua and I don't have it
10:04 <+due> Oh
10:04 < Eronarn> due: but if we add albino alligators, why not albino snakes? :)
10:04 <+due> lm_door isn't in that patch, odd.
10:05 <+due> Eronarn: Because albino alligators are cuter.
10:05 <+due> greensnark: http://sprunge.us/CPgJ
10:05 < cbus> @whereis pingpong
10:05 < Gretell> pingpong the Minotaur Blade (L17 MiFi), a worshipper of Trog, saved on Crypt:1 on 2010-01-15 after 43609 turns.
10:05 < cbus> hmm, might quit that char :)
10:07 < Mu_> due will you fix dis now :p
10:07 <+due> oh
10:07 <+due> Yes yes yes
10:07 <+due> I'm just going to revert hell.des to an old version where it worked
10:07 <+greensnark> notify_dgn_event: Lua error: ./dat/clua/lm_door.lua:44: table index is nil (x2)
10:08 < Mu_> oki
10:08 <+due> greensnark: O_O
10:08 <+due> greensnark: Hm.
10:08 <+due> Oh.
10:08 <+greensnark> Don't you get that? :)
10:08 <+due> No, I don't
10:08 <+greensnark> Huh, strange
10:08 <+greensnark> I just opened a door and got that
10:09 < Ashenzari> Destroyable artifacts?  What? (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=462) by Kyrris
10:10 <+greensnark> due: I guess you mean self.props.door_restrict or self.props['door_restrict']
10:13 <+due> Yeah.
10:14 <+due> I think I fixed that already, but it got lost in a stash somewhere?
10:14 < Twinge> Ooh, the yellow r glyph is free.  Ready for Capybaras.
10:15  * due looks that up.
10:16 < Mu_> never before have i seen such an oblong head
10:17 <+due> Back, ass...
10:17 <+due> Whenever I want dis-mu, it gives me dis-old three times.
10:18 < Mu_> i don't like the implication
10:18 < Mu_> ;-)
10:18 <+due> Mu_: Fixed.
10:18 < Mu_> thank you
10:20 < CIA-81> due * ra263b6c9d9ba /crawl-ref/source/dat/hells.des: Fix statues in dis_mu not coming to life (Mu_).
10:21 <+greensnark> due: function RestrictDoor:new(pars) props = props or { }
10:21 <+greensnark> 'props' and 'pars' are different
10:21 <+greensnark> You're creating a new global called props
10:21 <+greensnark> And every new door reuses it
10:33 < Napkin> moin guys!
10:33 <+greensnark> It's Napkin the great and terrible.
10:33 < Napkin> HARHAR!
10:33 < Napkin> :>
10:33 < Napkin> greatly hungry and terribly tired, yes!
10:34 <+Keskitalo> Me too! Heyah Napkin!
10:34 < Napkin> Hey Eino! :D
10:35 <+Keskitalo> I believe I have the first version of a project plan!
10:35 < Napkin> \o/
10:35 < Napkin> gj!
10:36 <+greensnark> What's the name of your project? "The Turtle Tapes"?
10:37 < Napkin> hey greensnark, would you have an idea how to teach Gretell to handle "@?? archer statue" ?
10:38 <+greensnark> Hm, tricky
10:38 < Napkin> this cute statue seems to be defined by a vault only - if I understood due correctly
10:38 < Napkin> then I asked the right man :)
10:38 <+greensnark> :P
10:38 < Napkin> :D
10:39 <+greensnark> It would need code to run all the vault chunks, look for monsters with custom names, and save the monster name and def to a sqlite db
10:40 <+greensnark> It'd need Crawl to be patched :P
10:40 <+greensnark> Or could just override dgn.mons, hm
10:40  * greensnark considers it.
10:42 <+greensnark> Either way it would complicate life :P
10:42 <+greensnark> The existing monster binary doesn't know or care about .des files, that'd have to change
10:42 < Napkin> isn't that what we are looking for?
10:42 < Napkin> ;)
10:43 < Napkin> off topic - why did you suggest to learn mephitic cloud, btw? First I thought it's a scroll of fog replacement - but I heard monster can look through it?
10:43 < Napkin> is there a replacement spell for fog?
10:43 <+greensnark> To confuse monsters
10:44 <+greensnark> It's particularly useful against things like elves and dracs
10:44 < Napkin> ah
10:44 <+greensnark> And merfolk :P
10:44 < Napkin> hehehe
10:44 < felirx> and ocrs!
10:44 <+Keskitalo> greensnark: It's the usability project for DCSS here in our faculty; there's been a few mails on the ML; I saw dpeg mention it to you briefly. We have a couple of students (me included) evaluating the usability of DCSS and doing also user studies (testing with fresh players) on it.
10:44 < Napkin> finally found repell missiles, btw :D
10:45 < Napkin> Keskitalo - tiles or non-tiles?
10:45 <+greensnark> Keskitalo: Yes, I'm familiar with it, but you need a catchy codename :)
10:45 <+greensnark> We should start doing catchy codenames for 0.X releases of Crawl as well
10:45 < Napkin> \o/
10:45 <+greensnark> So many open source projects do it :P
10:45 < Napkin> and give master aka former trunk a name too!
10:45 <+Keskitalo> greensnark: That is so true, "the usability project" is kind of bland. :)
10:45 -!- henryci [n=henry@c-71-232-165-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit []
10:46 < felirx> ukkos -> ukkonen -> thunder, gogo!
10:46 <+Keskitalo> Napkin: We'll do tiles - we can observe users on the servers already, but our tiles users we don't know as much about.
10:46 < Napkin> yeah
10:46 < Napkin> It was quite interesting to see my dad do his first steps in tiles :)
10:46 < Napkin> first rune yesterday, btw! :D
10:47 < Napkin> after about a month of playing, I'd say
10:47 <+Keskitalo> Napkin: Yeah, that was fun to read about too. :) That's what we'll be doing, although just shorter tests. :)
10:47 <+Keskitalo> Napkin: Pretty well done!
10:48 <+Keskitalo> I'm not actually sure if I ever got a rune pre-SS, so it might have taken me about 8 years or so. :)
10:48 < Napkin> woah!
10:48 <+Keskitalo> I do remember dying to the Swamp rune vault in b26 (without knowing what it was).
10:48 < Napkin> hehe
10:48 < Napkin> well, he's using the "Knowledge Bots" thoroughly and is asking me a lot of questions :)
10:51 < CIA-81> kilobyte * r6501bd6f99cd /crawl-ref/source/spells2.cc: Stop puny magic like Sticks To Snakes from messing with artefacts.
10:52 <+Keskitalo> Napkin: Yeah, I read some mailing list posts and the crawldev google group back then a bit, but not as much as one would now
10:53 < Napkin> yeah, I can imagine
10:53 <+Keskitalo> Just watching ##crawl teaches a lot about the game. I've even managed to win nowadays!
10:53 < Napkin> :))
11:14 <+due> Hi.
11:14 <+due> greensnark: I <3 you.
11:15 <+due> I thought it would be something so stupid.
11:16 <+due> greensnark: I'm assuming that if the monstes lookup uses monster specs to do stuff, you could just have a table like... "archer statue" -> "statue name:archer name_suffix <stats> ; bow . arrow q:30 blah blah".
11:17 <+due> I was going to look at the code and write something for it, but eh, lazy.
11:18 <+greensnark> That was my original plan
11:18 <+greensnark> But Crawl doesn't keep the "statue name:foo" around in any usable form
11:18 <+greensnark> It gets parsed into a mons_spec
11:18 <+due> Yeah, and then it places the modified monster...
11:18 <+due> Oh, but right.
11:18 <+due> You aren't working off the modified monster?
11:19 <+greensnark> The monster stats can use a mons_spec
11:19 <+greensnark> But I don't want to reload .des files each startup :P
11:19 <+due> Hooray, hooray, for the circus!
11:19 <+greensnark> So...
11:19 <+due> Why would it need to reload .des files eeach startup?
11:19 <+greensnark> Because the monster stuff is in the .des
11:19 <+due> Oh.
11:19 <+due> Right.
11:19 <+greensnark> The custom named monsters
11:19 <+due> Hey, hit me. I'm stupid tonight.
11:20 <+greensnark> So the current Grand Plan is to load all .des files once, find all mons_specs with names set, generate stats up front and save the stats into a sqlite db :P
11:20 <+greensnark> So that future runs can just query the db
11:21 <+greensnark> I'm not sure it's worth the effort though, is it? :D
11:21 < Napkin> it does sound nice, though
11:21 < Napkin> maybe, we should do that will the whole monster list, greensnark?
11:22 <+greensnark> Well, there are things like zombies and skeletons and stuff
11:22 < Napkin> then we wouldn't have to recompile monster-trunk at all and I could add updating that db to the CDO update script
11:22 <+due> It would be worth the effort, i think.
11:23 <+greensnark> Well, monster-trunk would still be around to produce the descriptions
11:23 <+due> However, reflavoured monsters should oly really exist as statues and the occasional vault.
11:23 <+due> Some of which will be converted to portal vaults.
11:23 < Napkin> "descriptions"?
11:24 <+greensnark> I mean we'd still need monster-trunk around for @??
11:24 <+greensnark> Whether it works up-front or not
11:25 <+greensnark> Handling all monsters up front would be a pain
11:25 < Napkin> oh, yes
11:26 < CIA-81> due * rcf61d02e8b5e /crawl-ref/source/ (8 files in 2 dirs): New events: door opened, closed. Lua marker for door restriction.
11:27 <+due> greensnark: Thanks, I had hoped it was something so stupid.
11:28 <+greensnark> Glad to help
11:28 <+due> Okay, reducing size of all poisoned ammunition stacks
11:28 <+greensnark> Maybe just darts
11:29 <+due> Not arrows and bolts and sling bullets?
11:29 <+greensnark> Those don't seem so common so early
11:29 <+due> It's easier to just do it to all poisoned ammo...
11:29 <+due> :|
11:29 <+greensnark> :P
11:29 <+due> BUT FINE
11:30 <+due> I'm trying to churn out as many things on my to-do list as I can.
11:30 <+due> greensnark: What do you think about a dlua items library that uses userdata--as well as converting the current items library to using userdata?
11:30 <+due> The dlua one would move all the increase/decrease and destroy stuff out of clua.
11:31 <+greensnark> Why not
11:31 <+due> and it would also allow for better item interatction with vaults (knowing exact info).
11:31 <+greensnark> Yes
11:31 <+due> We also need a &" equivalent for floor items.
11:31 <+due> ...
11:31 <+due> &', nm.
11:31 <+due> Might be nice if it ID'd everything though.
11:33 <+due> !lm greensnark uniq=dowan
11:34 < Henzell> No milestones for greensnark (uniq=dowan).
11:34 <+due> ...
11:34 <+due> Still?
11:34 <+due> Also, I still take offense to the indication that my commit messages are insufficient. I regularly have two or more paragraphs explaining everything. :p
11:35 <+greensnark> !lm * uniq=Dowan 1
11:35 < Henzell> 1. [2009-09-01] KiloByte the Ducker (L7 SpHe) killed Dowan on turn 5896. (D:5)
11:35 <+greensnark> !lg . start>20090901
11:35 <+due> sorear: Ping?
11:35 < Henzell> 26. greensnark the Archer (L13 HaWn), worshipper of Makhleb, blasted by Francis (divine providence) on Shoal:3 on 2010-01-14, with 22809 points after 25561 turns and 2:16:22.
11:36 <+greensnark> No D&D in 26 games!
11:36 <+due> Well, that's not unreasonnable.
11:36 <+greensnark> Actually I got them once in Orc :P
11:36 <+due> Oh, never mind.
11:36 <+greensnark> But I had to leave in a hurry
11:36 <+due> sorear: Never mind, found it.
11:36  * sorear grumbles
11:37 <+due> sorear: I'm changing Mara's summon blame chain to "woven by". Is this problematic?
11:37 <+sorear> no
11:38 <+due> Demonic monsters cannot be polymorphed, yes?
11:38 -!- henryci [n=henry@c-71-232-165-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
11:39 <+due> Eh.
11:40 < Mu_> right
11:40 <+due> Hm.
11:41 <+due> greensnark: N78291's illusion breathed at him, didn't it?
11:41 -!- ortoslon [n=chatzill@host-89-31-115-253.academ.org] has joined ##crawl-dev
11:41 <+greensnark> No, it threw stone arrow at him
11:42 <+due> Hm.
11:42 <+due> dlua monster interface might also be night
11:42 <+due> *nice
11:43 <+greensnark> It seems fixed now
11:43 <+due> Ah
11:43 <+greensnark> Possibly broken by that pghost/pan lord spellcasting bug :P
11:43 <+due> Nope
11:43 <+due> "a's ghost throws stone arrow at you"
11:43 <+greensnark> Oh
11:43 <+greensnark> I just tried it here and it worked ok :P
11:44 <+due> Odd
11:44 <+greensnark> Maybe there's only a chance of that message?
11:44 <+greensnark> And it says "Foo's illusion", not "Foo's ghost" her
11:44 <+greensnark> *here
11:44 <+due> Well, that's beam catchall cast
11:44 <+due> Nope, got it again.
11:45 <+due> This seems to be the case with any ghost.
11:45 <+due> It's not using generic spellcasting messages for ghosts.
11:45 <+due> I think that's "file a bug and beg someone else to fix it" territory.
11:46 <+greensnark> "John Doe's ghost gestures at you while chanting."
11:47 <+greensnark> Why do you see different behaviour? :P
11:47 <+due> :(
11:47 <+due> I am bork'd.
11:47 <+due> whoa, I just killed it though
11:48 <+due> greensnark: Weird, you're right. It does do odd things.
11:52 -!- ortoslon [n=chatzill@host-89-31-115-253.academ.org] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]"]
11:53 <+due> ??donald
11:53 < Henzell> donald[1/1]: He is a fellow adventurer, just like you, but different in that he can't fight to save his life.
11:54 <+Keskitalo> Regarding reflavoured monsters, I have a local commit that makes the humans in erik_1 be called cavemen, and gives them the slave tiles. I think this is a nice instance of use, cosmetics-wise.
11:56 <+due> That's a cool idea!
11:56 -!- henryci [n=henry@c-71-232-165-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
11:58 <+Keskitalo> Does that mess with the lookup bot business?
11:58 <+due> Welll
11:58 <+due> @??caveman
11:58 < Gretell> unknown monster: "caveman"
12:01 <+Keskitalo> due: Thanks for the frost vs imps tip :)
12:02 <+Keskitalo> Should Fedhas object to bone lantern?
12:02 < Eronarn> Keskitalo: Fedhas as currently, yes.
12:03 <+due> Keskitalo: You're welcome! I don't remember making it. :)
12:03 <+due> Oh.
12:03 <+Keskitalo> I think I'll check how that's handled now.
12:03 < Eronarn> Hypothetical Fedhas that doesn't arbitrarily hate necromancy but just using bodies for undeath... possibly still yes. Shadow goes against sunlight.
12:03 <+due> Gaah. 
12:04 <+Keskitalo> Eronarn: That's a nice point!
12:04 < Eronarn> Then again - fungi don't need to photosynthesize
12:07 <+Keskitalo> Ahh, Fedhas objects, it's just bone lantern gets id'd only after the first shadow summon, not when wielded.
12:07 <+due> Fedhas - God of Sunlight and fluffy Bunnies?
12:08 <+Keskitalo> Oh yes. Razor-teethed fluffy bunnies. Ely gets the cuddly fluffy bunnies.
12:08 <+greensnark> Do we have fluffy bunnies?
12:08 <+Keskitalo> greensnark: We have the peaceful quokka guarding the Ely altar.
12:08 <+greensnark> Aww, cute
12:08 < mr0t> heh
12:08 <+due> We have fluffy clouds.
12:10 <+kilobyte> shouldn't the quokka get name:fluffy_bunny name_replace? :p
12:10 <+kilobyte> BTW, it's hostile to monsters (and they fight back)
12:11  * kilobyte seen the big fish (another Ely altar) slaughter a pack of gnolls.
12:12 <+greensnark> That is awesome
12:14 <+due> Okay, it's Donald flavour overhaul!
12:14 <+Keskitalo> due: \o/
12:14 <+Keskitalo> kilobyte: That's Ely for you!
12:14 <+due> Hm, he may need a buff.
12:14 <+due> !killsby Donalld
12:14 < Henzell> No games for * (ckiller=Donalld).
12:14 <+Keskitalo> The monsters are antipacifists. :|
12:14 <+due> !killsby Donald
12:14 < Henzell> 10 games for * (ckiller=Donald): 1x coweater, 1x Toad, 1x yap, 1x splat, 1x Manslay, 1x MrPeeps, 1x Sebi, 1x Eronarn, 1x wolverian, 1x Nexos
12:14 <+due> Wait, is it duane or donald that we were making the complainer?
12:15 <+greensnark> Can we give Donald the lower body of a duck :P
12:15 <+Keskitalo> greensnark: Twisted minds..
12:15 <+due> DEPTH:  10-13, Lair, Slime, Snake, Swamp, Vault, Shoal
12:15 <+due> I want him to show up in a lot of branches so he gets time to complain.
12:15 <+due> He also needs a buff.
12:15 <+greensnark> If he shows up in the later branches he'll be offed before he can draw breath
12:16 <+due> True.
12:16 < st_> could his stats be dependant on where he is?
12:16 <+due> st_: Yes.
12:16 <+kilobyte> Donald needs an axe.  And not to wield.
12:16 <+due> greensnark may kill me for doing that, though.
12:16 <+Keskitalo> I feel that is against a feature which I like about uniques: you know what you're facing. And can share war stories with other players.
12:16 <+due> kilobyte: I'm buffing him and making him interesting. 
12:17 <+Keskitalo> (I don't like e.g. how Erolcha's spellbook can be different from game to game.)
12:17 <+due> Well, I was thinking that if he's an adventurer, he levels up as he heads down the Dungeon.
12:18 <+greensnark> Maybe Donald should literally be just like the player :P
12:18 <+greensnark> Pity Mara already does illusions :)
12:18 <+due> Heh.
12:19 < CIA-81> due * r26fa45ccfe5b /crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc: Tweak needle brand weights and some stack sizes (greensnark).
12:19 < CIA-81> due * rfa4afe65f75e /crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: Mark Mara's summons as "woven by" instead of "summoned by".
12:19 < CIA-81> due * rae857123a34b /crawl-ref/source/mon-speak.cc: Include Branch name in speech prefixes.
12:19 <+Keskitalo> due: "Donald" would be less meaningful, you'd have to say "Donald on D:11" or "Donald on Vaults:1" (although you'd actually need to say the absolute depth).
12:20 <+due> Well, I would make it branch-dependent.
12:20 <+due> The other option is to just anchor him in Swamp, Shoals or Snake.
12:20 <+due> And buff him accordingly.
12:20 <+due> Late Swamp, Shoals or Snake, even.
12:20 <+due> We could also include early Vaults in that regard.
12:20 <+greensnark> Give him duck body if he's going to be in watery places :P
12:20 <+Keskitalo> Buff and relocation is cool.
12:21 <+due> Okay.
12:21 <+due> Let's go with that then!
12:21 <+greensnark> "You see the semi-huma-my-god-what-is-that-thing body of Donald here"
12:21 <+due> Okay, complaining speeches.
12:22 <+due> "Tides? God, what were they thinking!"
12:22 <+due> "I hate brackish water so much. It stinks, it looks terrible..."
12:22 <+due> "The hissing sound snakes make? I hate it. And the slithering, eurgh."
12:22 <+Keskitalo> Glorantha has ducks. :)
12:22 <+due> "Rooms, rooms, rooms, rooms... all of them empty! Argh!"
12:22 <+Keskitalo> due: Sounds wonderful :D
12:23 <+due> Okay, re: Buff.
12:23 <+due> How many hours should he spend at le gym?
12:23 <+due> Frances/Francis stats, perhaps?
12:24 <+due> Or maybe Louise.
12:25 < Twinge> I think it's fine if he varies on depth - just have the description imply such.  It also seems fine if Donald is weak-ish for whatever depth he's on; things can be fun and interesting even if they aren't difficult, sometimes.
12:25 < Mu_> let him spawn crypt, elf, blade too ;-)
12:25  * greensnark still wants Donald to be a ducktaur.
12:25 <+due> Twinge: Non-difficult means people just ignore him.
12:25 <+due> @??donald
12:25 < Gretell> Donald (@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 54 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Damage: 8 | Res: magic(33) | Chunks: contaminated | XP: 365.
12:25 <+due> How about 84hp, 21 dam, HD11?
12:25 < Mu_> "There isn't even a rune, why is this seven levels long?"
12:25 < Twinge> I mean, he doesn't need to be THAT weak ;)
12:26 <+greensnark> @?? orc warrior
12:26 < Gretell> orc warrior (o) | Speed: 10 | HD: 4 | Health: 16-40 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Damage: 20 | Res: magic(16) | Chunks: contaminated | XP: 133.
12:26 <+due> Mu_: Or, "I think this place goes down forever. Maybe there's turtles at the end..."
12:26 <+due> @??orc knight
12:26 < Gretell> orc knight (o) | Speed: 10 | HD: 9 | Health: 36-99 | AC/EV: 2/13 | Damage: 25 | Res: magic(36) | Chunks: contaminated | XP: 688.
12:26 <+due> I was thinking more orc knight/warlord stats.
12:26 < Mu_> "A great mace doesn't even have a blade."
12:26 <+due> Mu_: ... Yes.
12:26 <+due> Mu_: <333
12:26 < Twinge> But I mean, I kinda thought he was a unique unique because he was a weakling, and that always seemed fine :P
12:26  * greensnark says the duck word again.
12:26 <+due> Twinge: He was, to me, just another of the countless faces of human unique.s
12:27 <+kilobyte> Death to humans!
12:27 <+due> @??orc warlord
12:27 < Gretell> orc warlord (o) | Speed: 10 | HD: 15 | Health: 60-165 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 32 | Res: magic(60) | Chunks: contaminated | XP: 2895.
12:27 <+due> Let's go with slightly less than orc warlord stats.
12:27  * greensnark pesters due for Donald the ducktaur.
12:27 < Mu_> "Why would anybody inter a butterfly?"
12:27 <+due> HD14, dam 26.
12:27 <+due> greensnark: No ducktaur. Sorry.
12:28 <+greensnark> :'( :'( </3
12:28 <+due> No <300 year old cultural references. :(
12:28 <+due> So sayeth El Ploog.
12:28 <+greensnark> We're just ahead of our time :P
12:28 <+due> I think I might give him a nice, Maud/Margery-esque weapon.
12:28 < Twinge> Ducktaurs!  OooOOO!
12:29 -!- by [n=rob@g225122139.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined ##crawl-dev
12:29 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v by] by ChanServ
12:29 < Mu_> give him a draining weapon and make him complain about 'xp loss'
12:29 <+due> NO DUCKTAURS.
12:29 <+Keskitalo> Mu_: Yes!
12:29 < Mu_> or is that too meta :p
12:29 <+due> Slightly too meta, I think.
12:29 <+Keskitalo> Hmm.. without mentioning experience points explicitly?
12:30 <+due> DEPTH:  Swamp, Snake, Shoal, Vault, Crypt, Blade
12:30 <+due> Elf, too, perhaps?
12:30 <+Keskitalo> greensnark: We got turtles, we can get ducktaurs one day.
12:30 <+due> I'm not sure about Orc.
12:30 <+greensnark> Keskitalo: Aye, I shall bide a wee
12:30 <+due> "Orcs complain a lot. I hate it."
12:30 <+due> No, we need Orc.
12:30 < Mu_> why not everywhere :)
12:30 <+due> Maybe late orc.
12:30 <+due> Mu_: Too easy.
12:30 < Mu_> hive?
12:30 < Twinge> due: I was trying to make it to the tune of Duck Tales, but 'oooOOO' is hard to convey in text
12:31 <+due> DEPTH:  Swamp, Snake, Shoal, Vault, Crypt, Blade, Elf:2-7, Orc:3-4
12:31 <+due> Anyone think that's too easy?
12:31 <+due> I might limit him to early Vault and early Crypt.
12:31 <+greensnark> Well, his stats as discussed last seemed pretty non-threatening
12:31 <+due> @??orc warlord
12:31 < Gretell> orc warlord (o) | Speed: 10 | HD: 15 | Health: 60-165 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 32 | Res: magic(60) | Chunks: contaminated | XP: 2895.
12:31 <+due> Is that too threatening for those depths?
12:31 <+greensnark> warlord stats?
12:31 <+due> Yees.
12:32 <+due>     { {AT_HIT, AF_PLAIN, 26}, AT_NO_ATK, AT_NO_ATK, AT_NO_ATK },
12:32 <+due>     { 14, 0, 0, 84 },
12:32 <+due>     3, 10, MST_NO_SPELLS, CE_CONTAMINATED, Z_NOZOMBIE, S_SHOUT,
12:32 <+greensnark> Yeah, better than orc knight
12:32 <+due> Is what I've currently got.
12:32 < Twinge> @??orc knight
12:32 < Gretell> orc knight (o) | Speed: 10 | HD: 9 | Health: 36-99 | AC/EV: 2/13 | Damage: 25 | Res: magic(36) | Chunks: contaminated | XP: 688.
12:32 <+due> It's not *quite* orc warlord stats.
12:32 <+by> hi
12:32 <+greensnark> by!
12:32 <+due> by! We're buffing uniques!
12:32 <+greensnark> hi bye by
12:32 <+by> yay
12:33 < Mu_> warlords are pretty buff
12:33 <+greensnark> My proposal for Donald the ducktaur has been cruelly rejected :P
12:33 <+due> Okay, so not quite warlord is buff.
12:33 <+due> Donald the Duck Warlord.
12:33 <+greensnark> Donald the Ducklord?
12:33  * due drowns greensnark. In a duck pond.
12:33  * greensnark quacks in protest.
12:34 < Mu_> if he's near warlord levels you could put him in slime
12:34 <+due> Ooh, true.
12:34 <+due> I might limit him off Elf:7.
12:34 <+due> "I hope there's a rune at the end!"
12:34 <+greensnark> No no
12:34 <+greensnark> "This rune's all mine!"
12:34 <+by> make donald fast and near invincible but without attack, and always seek out the player?
12:34 <+greensnark> In Elf
12:34 <+by> that way he can do plenty of complaining
12:35 <+due> Hooray, ctcp flood.
12:35 <+due> The global messages just get more and more depressingevery day
12:36 < Mu_> is there any reason for the repeated attacks?
12:36 <+due> Stupid?
12:37 <+greensnark> Jerkidemic
12:37 <+greensnark> Ok, ok, if ducks are out
12:37 <+greensnark> Donald the Goosetaur?
12:38  * greensnark looks for bird names starting with "D"
12:38 <+due> /cs op ##crawl-dev
12:38 < Mu_> leave him human but give him the amphibious flag and say no more ;p
12:38 <+greensnark> Donald the Dodo? :P
12:38 <+kilobyte> yay for dodos! :p
12:39 <+due> I'm inclined to do Mu's suggestion.
12:39 <+due> And include "For some odd reason, he's taken to the water like a duck, and can swim like a hydra."
12:39 <+due> in his descrpition.
12:39 <+greensnark> Aha!
12:39 <+greensnark> That works :P
12:39 <+due> Hopefully we can sneak it past El Ploogo.
12:40 <+greensnark> "like a common water fowl"
12:40 <+due> Ooh, yes.
12:40 <+due> Not including duck is good.
12:40 <+greensnark> :P
12:40 <+greensnark> "like the water fowl of your choice"
12:40 <+due> Yes!
12:40 <+due> Okay, complain-y speech time.
12:41 <+due> greensnark: Oh, bah.
12:41 <+due> greensnark: shortname is "Orcish Mines". Pushing that into prefixes will cause probblems, yeah?
12:41 <+greensnark> No idea
12:41 <+due> Oh
12:41 <+due> it works!
12:42 < Mu_> "I hope I find Deconstruction because I really want that sword."
12:42 < Mu_> ;p
12:42 <+due> "Maybe I should've gone to Mage School after all...
12:42 <+greensnark> Give him some terrible cringeworthy puns too
12:43 <+due> Sure.
12:43 <+greensnark> "Don't be a sword loser" <-- OOTS references verboten? :P
12:43 <+greensnark> Just kidding :P
12:43 <+kilobyte> you can see that line elsewhere too, it's not specific to OOTS
12:43 <+due> OOTS?
12:43 <+due> We have a smokey the bear reference, somehow I think we can get away with little things.
12:44 <+kilobyte> and it does suck, but that's the point
12:46 <+kilobyte> just found it in a post from 1996
12:46 <+due> Found what?
12:48 < Twinge> OOTS = Order of the Stick, webcomic
12:48 <+due> Oh..
12:49 -!- ortoslon [n=chatzill@host-89-31-115-253.academ.org] has joined ##crawl-dev
12:49 <+due> Okay, Orc complaints.
12:49 <+due> Hit me, people!
12:50 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "What do they mine anyway? I've never seen them mine anything."
12:50 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "Have you ever seen an orcish miner? Me neither."
12:50 < Mu_> where are all the items
12:50 < Mu_> why is it so dark
12:51 <+by> some complaints about the smell?
12:51 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "What do they mine anyway? I've never seen them mine anything."
12:51 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "Have you ever seen an orcish miner? Me neither."
12:51 < cbus> you should add an orcish miner unique :)
12:52 < cbus> "The orcish miner that got bored of mining"
12:52 <+due> Okay, onto the elven halls!
12:52 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "Why is it so dark? Have they never heard of torches?"
12:52 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "I bought a lantern at a shop, but it didn't work. I hate that."
12:52 <+due> (for orc)
12:53 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "They're so pretty, I think it must be a glamour."
12:53 < Mu_> why'd they put this place in a mine anyway
12:54 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "I hope this rune is worth it!"
12:54 < Mu_> where'd all my scrolls go
12:54 <+kilobyte> "I need a drink.", this is always appropiate.
12:54 <+due> kilobyte: I'll probably add generic complaints in a minute
12:55 <+due> however: @The_monster@ says, "Why did I leave my potions and scrolls outside? I need a drink."
12:56 <+kilobyte> "You lug a keg of dwarven spirits and it suddenly catches on fire... bleh."
12:56 < Mu_> what's with all the strange gestures
12:56 <+due> Okay, Swamp!
12:56 <+due> Mu_: Oooh, no, that's good!
12:57 <+due> Swamp!
12:57 < Mu_> elf: a cloud of freezing what?  swamp: a cloud of foul what?
12:57 <+kilobyte> you can have >10 lines about mosquitoes
12:57 < Mu_> haha
12:57 <+kilobyte> I HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE THE BASTARDS.
12:57 <+due> YES.
12:58 <+due> NetHack reference coming up.
12:58 <+due> "I should've genocided mosquitoes."
12:58 < Mu_> boo hss
12:59 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "I left my flaming weapon at home."
13:00 <+due> What else to complain about?
13:01 <+due> Shoals!
13:02 <+kilobyte> "Not a single pirate around"
13:03 < Mu_> the sirens don't even sound that good
13:03 <+greensnark> "My name is Donald Deepwood and I'm a mighty pirate!"
13:04 <+due> greensnark: <3
13:04 <+due> greensnark: I have half a mind to w:1 that in.
13:04 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "Where'd the sea come from? I thought this place was underground."
13:05 < Mu_> great now i can't reach the ground
13:05 < Mu_> how complex can speech triggers be
13:05 <+due> Is there a way to make Donald swim without giving him the amphibious bonus?
13:06 <+due> Not complicated enough, sorry.
13:06 <+due> greensnark: I noticed that there's the capacity for Lua in the monster description files; is there capacity for Lua in the monster speech files, with the monster object being passed in? :D
13:07 <+greensnark> No idea, that's zelgadis' handiwork
13:07 <+greensnark> For all you know, it's already supported
13:07 <+due> Yeah.
13:07 <+due> Zelgaaaaadiiiis, where are youuu!
13:07 <+due> Okay, slime pits.
13:07 < Mu_> that kraken looks photoshopped
13:07 < Mu_> ;p
13:07 < Mu_> where are all the items
13:08 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "Harpies stole my lunch. I hate harpies."
13:08 <+due> compare
13:08 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "A jelly ate my lunch. I hate jellies."
13:09 <+due> I'll also give him Yiuf's chatty flag.
13:10 <+by> in shoals/snake/swamp, donald should complain that he can't find the missing branch
13:10 < Mu_> this place is the pits
13:10 < Mu_> works for snake too :p
13:10 <+greensnark> "I'm looking for Ms Medusa, have you seen her?"
13:10 <+due> by: I love that idea.
13:10 <+due> greensnark: in Shoals?
13:10 <+greensnark> Yerss
13:10 <+greensnark> Give him a buckler of reflection :P
13:11 <+greensnark> Or a shield, whatever he carrie :P
13:11 <+due> Hehehe.
13:11 <+greensnark> Medusa is Greek myth, right? :P
13:11 <+due> "It's all greek to me"--need to work this in.
13:13 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "My other sword rusted away completely. I hate that!"
13:15 < Mu_> i feel like i'm being watched
13:17 < Mu_> oh    i always freeze up when i think i'm being watched
13:18 <+kilobyte> does Donald do gods?  Okawaru's gifts are an endless source of complaints...
13:20 <+due> kilobyte: No, but it would be a nice idea.
13:22 < Mu_> make him say unbearably optimistic things when confused ;p
13:22 <+due> He should show up in Temple.
13:22 <+by> he could complain about the player's current god
13:23 < Twinge> due: Would be kinda neat to have him show up non-violently in Temple
13:24 <+greensnark> When killed Donald transforms into a paperclip and permanently inhabits the monster listing?
13:25 <+due> greensnark: <3.
13:25 <+due> Papercliptaur.
13:26 <+due> Should donald submerge?
13:26 < Mu_> temple: "nobody could pronounce that."
13:26 <+due> <3
13:27 <+due> I'll do generics once I'm finished the branche.s
13:27 <+due> will do gods as wlel.
13:27 <+by> need a talking weapon that gives unhelpful suggestions based on the current situation: "Why don't you just meph cloud those centaurs?"; "I told you to learn Dispel Undead."; "Why didn't you bring a potion of speed?"
13:27 <+due> by: Named Kring!
13:29 <+greensnark> The Singing Sword will get madly jealous if you have the other sword in inventory
13:29 <+greensnark> And will animate itself to fight it
13:29 <+by> nice
13:31 <+due> An adventurer just like you, trying to find the Orb. Despite his hatred of
13:31 <+due> water, he takes to it like a water fowl of your choosing.
13:31 <+due> (if you are merfolk)
13:31 < Mu_> that sounds really awkward :p
13:31 <+due> Yeah.
13:31 < Twinge> 'of your choosing' definitely sounds off in the description
13:32 <+due> "Unlike you, and despite his hatred of it, he takes to water like a fowl of your choosing."
13:32 <+due> Blame greensnark.
13:32  * due dumps "of your choosing".
13:32 < Twinge> Go with his first one without it, yeah
13:33 <+greensnark> "like a water fowl. Don't call him "Duck"!" :P
13:33 < Mu_> An adventurer just like you, trying to find the Orb. His peculiarly webbed feet make him an excellent swimmer.
13:33 < Mu_> ? :p
13:33 <+greensnark> Mu_: <3
13:33 <+due> Too extreme.
13:33 <+greensnark> We wants ducktaurs.
13:33 <+greensnark> My precioussss
13:33 <+due> You will not get ducktaurs.
13:33 <+due> You will get frogs.
13:33 <+greensnark> :'(
13:34 < Twinge> frogtaurs?
13:34 <+due> No, frogs.
13:34 <+due> Poison dart frogs.
13:35 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "A death ooze cooed at me. That's naff."
13:35 <+due> Is "naff" colloquially wrong?
13:35 -!- Zaba_ [n=zaba@ip102.148.adsl.wplus.ru] has joined ##crawl-dev
13:35 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v Zaba_] by ChanServ
13:35 < Twinge> It makes no sense to me, but I'm not certain it's wrong
13:35 <+due> s/coos/jiggled
13:36 < Mu_> naff means like 'not trendy' :s
13:36 <+greensnark> "Did you see the pseudopodia on that death ooze! Hot!"
13:36 < Mu_> also i haven't heard that word since the early 90s :p
13:36 <+due> What?
13:36 <+due> naff is like... icky/gross/smelly/disgusting.
13:37 <+due> Like minging.
13:37 < Mu_> maybe different over here
13:37 <+due> Where isMu!
13:37 < Mu_> england
13:37 <+due> Hm.
13:37 <+due> It's definitely used in Scotland, at least last time I was there.
13:38 < Mu_> 'this place doesn't look very sturdy'
13:39 < Mu_> after walls of slime get added :p
13:39 <+due> Okay, snake pit.
13:39 <+due> Hi Zaba_!
13:39 <+by> "I really don't care for poison."
13:40 <+Zaba_> moin due
13:40 -!- syllogism [i=syllogis@85-131-29-195.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##crawl-dev
13:40 <+due> oh, though
13:40 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "Someone said I could use acid to solve all my problems. It just made them worse."
13:40 <+due> I think this is brilliant, if I do say so myself.
13:40 < Mu_> 'what's with all the hissing'
13:41 < cbus> Jessica should say "Is that just a magic wand or are you happy to see me" when fighting wizards
13:41 <+by> "What do I need a barding for?"
13:41 < Mu_> gahaha
13:41 <+due> by: <3
13:42 <+by> "Robes are for girls."
13:42 < cbus> "Never trust a guy in a robe"
13:42 < cbus> quote butchering from a movie, hmm, hatever it was called :)
13:42 < cbus> someone going to a parallell universe
13:42 < cbus> recent one (comedy)
13:43 <+due> I am deliberatly including all sorts of stupid comments people make about stuff.
13:43 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "What sort of name is moccasin? Sounds like a pair of shoes."
13:43 < Twinge> HAH
13:44 <+by> "Brown snakes, black snakes, grey snakes? This guide is useless..."
13:44 <+due> <3!
13:44 <+due> Perfect.
13:45 <+due> I'm kind of blocked for Snake.
13:45 <+by> some complaint about the blocking powers of naga warriors with shields would be appropriate, but I can't think of anything
13:46 <+due> "Did all the warriors here go to shield school or something?"
13:46 -!- Zaba [n=zaba@about/goats/billygoat/zaba] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:46 < Mu_> 'so are the fast ones naga or not'
13:46 <+by> yes
13:46 <+by> heh
13:46 <+due> Mu_: That's better than my @The_monster@ says, "There's a difference between guardian serpents and nagas? I never noticed."
13:47 <+due> Hm.
13:47 <+due> I'm not sure I can get away with this line
13:47 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "What sort of name is 'naga' anyway? Naga, nagger. I hate naggers."
13:47 <+due> (Not at all meant to be racist untiil I just looked at it and realised.)
13:48 < cbus> due, its probably a reference to "that nigger guy" episode of south park :)
13:48 <+due> cbus: It's not!
13:48 < cbus> then its justa ripoff _
13:48 < cbus> :)
13:48 <+due> I was thinking up homonyms for naga.
13:49 < Mu_> i think it's supposed to be ironic because donald himself is a nagger :p
13:49 <+due> Mu_: Exactly.
13:49 < Mu_> i prolly wouldn't put it in though because of precisely that misinterpretation :s
13:50 <+by> "What sort of name is 'naga' anyway? They're not even good at nagging."; though that goes in a slightly different direction
13:50 <+due> by: <333 I like both.
13:50 < Mu_> use that one :)
13:50 < Mu_> 'those fast ones should put their clothes back on'
13:51 <+due> Hm
13:51 <+due> I think Aizul might still get a barding
13:51 <+due> i need to double check that
13:51 < cbus> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naggers
13:51 < cbus> btw
13:52 <+by> "So naga are stealthy? Don't make me laugh."
13:52 < Mu_> makes sense they'd still be able to wear bardings actually unless they're totally different sizes
13:52 < cbus> "Maybe a new pair of sneakers would make you stealthier"
13:52 < cbus> ;)
13:53 < Mu_> "Would you guys hurry up?"
13:53 < cbus> "Hurry up, the snail is catching up"
13:55 <+due> Vaults!
13:55 <+due> @??giant snail
13:55 < Gretell> giant snail (j) | Speed: 4 | HD: 14 | Health: 70-112 | AC/EV: 7/2 | Damage: 18 | Flags: amphibious | Res: magic(56) | Chunks: poisonous | XP: 244.
13:55 <+due> @??naga
13:55 < Gretell> naga (N) | Speed: 8 (act: 80%) | HD: 5 | Health: 15-40 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Damage: 17 | Flags: see invisible | Res: magic(40), poison | Chunks: poisonous | XP: 108 | Sp: poison splash.
13:55 < cbus> ;)
13:56 < Mu_> well vaults are subject to change so
13:56 < cbus> there should be a unique snail that is fast :)
13:56 < cbus> The snail that beat the rabbit in a race ;)
13:56 <+by> "Don't bother going further, it's all the same. Can't stand it."
13:57 < Mu_> "Hey didn't I see you guys in D?"
13:57 <+due> Vaults is subject to change.
13:58 <+due> I should probably leave it for now.
13:58 <+due> I'll just make him not spawn there for now
13:58 <+due> Blade!
13:58 < Mu_> "They never drop hides for me."
13:58 <+due> Then crypt.
13:59 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "They may as well put a portal to the Abyss at the bottom of the stairs."
13:59 <+by> Vaults: "Don't bother, there's only junk at the bottom."; "The Vaults? They should have called it The Dumps."
14:00 <+due> Hm.
14:00 <+by> Vaults: "I feel like half the man I was before coming here."
14:00 <+due> Hehehe
14:01 <+due> I need more blade ideas or I'll have to dump them.
14:01 <+by> "half the man" could also work for Blade
14:01 <+due> We don't push God names in?
14:02 < Mu_> "How did I get over here?"
14:02 < Mu_> "They don't even dance."
14:02 <+due> for David: @The_monster@ says, "I thought dancing weapons might, you know, dance?"
14:02 <+by> :)
14:02 <+due> HAHA YES
14:02 < Mu_> gahaha
14:02 < Mu_> "What's a bardiche?"
14:03 < Mu_> oh way i'm straying away from complaints and into Neebert territory
14:03 -!- Zaba_ [n=zaba@about/goats/billygoat/zaba] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
14:03 <+due> Neebert?
14:03 <+by> are there weapon types that don't generate in Blade?
14:03 <+due> Yeah.
14:03 <+by> he could complain about not finding the weapon type he's wielding
14:03 < Mu_> there were NPC's in baldurs gate called neeber or something that would follow you around and ask stupid questions every second
14:04 < Mu_> "What's a mage?" "That axes looks sharp." etc
14:04 <+by> "Animated weapons are so last century."
14:04 < Mu_> "One of these has to be speed."
14:05 < Mu_> "I'm hungry."
14:05 < Mu_> better for crypt maybe :p
14:05 <+due> Hehehe.
14:06 <+due> Or just a general complaint.
14:06 <+due> Okay, that's a full page.
14:06 <+due> NExt!
14:06 -!- Spads [n=spacehob@unaffiliated/spads] has joined ##crawl-dev
14:07 <+due> I'm also going to push gods into speech prefixes as well.
14:07 <+due> Crypt!
14:08 < Mu_> "my neck hurts"
14:08 <+due> Neck hurts?
14:08 < Mu_> vampires
14:08 <+due> Oh, HEHE.
14:09 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "Is it cursed, or does it curse? I can never tell."
14:09 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "Curse skulls, curse toes... What next?"
14:09 < Mu_> "why would someone inter a butterfly?"
14:09 < Mu_> "this isn't even all that spooky"
14:09 < Mu_> "how did they even end up in those cages"
14:10 <+by> "That ghoul gave me heartburn."
14:11 -!- Zaba [n=zaba@ip102.148.adsl.wplus.ru] has joined ##crawl-dev
14:11 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v Zaba] by ChanServ
14:11 < Mu_> "where are all the doors"
14:12 <+by> "I just hope it's not the liches in glass."
14:12 <+due> @The_monster@ says, "Have you seen a sarcophagus full of treasure around? Me neither."
14:12 < Mu_> "the mummy wasn't that great."
14:12 <+by> "The same junk as everywhere else."
14:12 <+due> Hehehe.
14:13 <+by> "Nothing to eat, either."
14:13 < Mu_> "why is it so quiet"
14:14 <+due> okay
14:14 <+by> "They don't even play music."
14:14 <+due> Needs more orc, too
14:15 <+due> More Snake Pit, Blade and Orc, actually.
14:15 <+due> And Elven Halls.
14:15 <+by> "The Crypt, The Tomb. What's next, The Coffin?"
14:18 <+by> "These orcs are so stupid, they ate their rune."
14:19 < Mu_> "how come this gold doesn't weigh anything?"
14:20 < Twinge> Fight, soldier, knight... I don't care about the elven military system!
14:21 < Twinge> *Fighter.  And could be better phrased I think, but something along those lines
14:22 <+due> Crap, is that the time?
14:22 <+due> I think this will have to wait until tomorrow for finishing.
14:22 <+due> Or I could just push now.
14:22 < Mu_> trust your heart
14:26 < Mu_> due i just did dis and the statues didn't come to life :s
14:26 <+due> On CDO?
14:26 < Mu_> local
14:27 <+due> New build?
14:27 < Mu_> yep
14:27 <+due> Your map?
14:27 < Mu_> yep
14:27 <+due> :|
14:30 <+due> Pushed donald!
14:31 < CIA-81> due * reb2694d6baa8 /crawl-ref/source/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Buff Donald, and make him considerably more interesting.
14:32 < Mu_> oh wait i was working in wizlab
14:32 <+due> Mu_: Hehehe
14:32 <+due> I'm just merging them
14:32 < CIA-81> due wizlab * rfd6cab9f7ce0 /crawl-ref/ (17 files in 6 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into wizlab
14:32 < CIA-81> due wizlab * r6d4f3a0282cd /crawl-ref/source/dat/wizlab.des: Tweak Wucad Mu monster weights.
14:32 < CIA-81> due wizlab * rbe0954da38f1 /crawl-ref/source/dat/wizlab.des: Tweak Cloud Mage colours slightly.
14:33 < CIA-81> due wizlab * r315a29e5e823 /crawl-ref/ (128 files in 17 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into wizlab
14:33 < syllogism> vehumet still doesn't give piety for demon kills? :(
14:34 < CIA-81> due vaults * rc46e87cd08c0 /crawl-ref/ (128 files in 17 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into vaults
14:34 < Mu_> okay it does actually work ;-)
14:34 <+due> :D
14:34 <+due> Good.
14:34 <+due> Sleeepytime.
14:35 <+due> Goodnight!
14:35 < Mu_> night due
14:36 -!- AceTetra [n=AceTetra@unaffiliated/cateater] has joined ##crawl-dev
14:39 <+by> due: night; great work on donald, the commit is fun to read
14:40 < cbus> cloud mage?
14:40 <+due> by: Thanks, though  a lot of the stuff came from her.e :)
14:40 <+due> *:)
14:40 <+due> I still want to do Gods and general stuff.
14:40 <+greensnark> Night due, nice work :)
14:40 <+due> Okay, actual sleep!
14:41 <+greensnark> "gold doesn't weight anything" :)
14:43 < cbus> @The_monster@ says, "These orcs are so stupid, they must've eaten the rune."
14:43 < cbus> lol
14:43 < cbus> best one
14:43 < cbus> :D
14:44 <+greensnark> !tell due Once we have alligators Donald should ask for alligator sandwiches. The snappy variety.
14:44 < Henzell> greensnark: OK, I'll let due know.
14:44 < cbus> are there any references to snakes on a plane in snake pit?
14:44 < syllogism> i hope not
14:45 < Twinge> cbus: If not, I imagine we can remedy that!  At least a plane-shaped vault or something :)
14:45 <+greensnark> cbus: My Donald the ducktaur idea got shot down for some reason :P
14:45 < cbus> twinge, best one would be "I hate these motherfucking snakes on my motherfucking level" or something
14:45 < cbus> but that wouldn't be ok :)
14:45 < cbus> (because of the mf words)
14:45 < cbus> :D
14:46 < cbus> greensnark, doh, I was thinking of donald the duck
14:46 < cbus> greensnark, I liked your idea :)
14:46 <+by> greensnark: I didn't even get the "duck" reference for some reason
14:46 < Twinge> Sure, and that's something Donald could definitely say if you rephrase.  And it'd definitely need to be 'I've HAD IT with these...'
14:46 < syllogism> now that we've turtles, we've to start lobbying for ducks
14:47 < cbus> @The_monster@ says, "I don't understand half of what these people say. It's all Greek to me."
14:47 < cbus> thats the dorkiest speech ever
14:47 < cbus> :(
14:47 < cbus> makes me sad
14:47  * greensnark relobbies due for "My name is Donald Deepwood and I'm a mighty pirate" :/
14:47 < cbus> mighty deep elf
14:47 < cbus> :D
14:47 <+greensnark> How can we not have Monkey Island references :P
14:47 < cbus> true
14:47 < cbus> :D
14:47 < cbus> we do though
14:48 < cbus> murray
14:48 <+greensnark> Murray's too rare :P
14:48 <+by> I've never seen murray
14:48 < Twinge> Boris should say "I am invincible!"
14:48 < Twinge> (It even fits!)
14:48 < cbus> I'll be back
14:49 < Mu_> i think i've had him once but i skip vestibule if i'm not doing hells.
14:50 <+by> Henzell says I've only been to hell 23 times -- how rare is he?
14:50 <+by> !lm * br.enter=hell
14:50 < Henzell> 2177. [2010-01-18] syban the Farming Annihilator (L27 MuSt) entered the Vestibule of Hell on turn 2625065. (Hell)
14:50 <+by> !lm * uniq=murray
14:50 < Henzell> 127. [2010-01-06] Qui the Blademaster (L26 KoPr) killed Murray on turn 108657. (D:21)
14:51 <+kilobyte> greensnark: one of Murray's lines is literally about the three-headed monkey
14:52 < AceTetra> i keep hearing about monkey island. how do i experience it?
14:52 -!- ortoslon [n=chatzill@host-89-31-115-253.academ.org] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]"]
14:53 < Mu_> it's an old point and click adventure game
14:54 <+by> AceTetra: look for scummvm
14:55 < AceTetra> huh, scummvm points me right back to freenode
14:55 < AceTetra> "no warez". typical.
14:58 < cbus> greensnark, add a 3-headed monkey monster unique :)
14:59 < cbus> greensnark, make it throw bananas for a lot of damage
14:59 < Napkin> food! \o/
14:59 < AceTetra> more monsters should have multiple heads!
14:59 < Napkin> not a lot of damage, though
14:59 < AceTetra> two-headed ogres are just not enough
14:59 < cbus> acetetra, hydras :)
15:00 < AceTetra> please make me fight a 20-headed ogre, with 20 giant spiked clubs
15:00 < Twinge> Ace: It's called a Titanic Slime Creature
15:00  * AceTetra hits cbus with a giant spiked club and sets his terminal to 81x26
15:02 <+kilobyte> Not knowing Monkey Island is a crime akin to not knowing OOTS.
15:03 <+kilobyte> google for "Monkey Island longplay", there's a recorded walkthrough you can watch
15:03 <+kilobyte> certainly beats watching most movies
15:03 < Twinge> Hmm, that might be worth it.  Never felt like going back and actually palying it, as point-and-click adventures is practically the one genre I don't like
15:04 <+kilobyte> someone also drawn 1/3 of it as a comic: http://www.worldofmi.com/features/comics/vink/
15:13 < AceTetra> ok but i've read all of OOTS. i'm only a half criminal then?
15:13 < AceTetra> Welcome to ThorPrayer.
15:16  * Spads fights like a dairy farmer
15:17  * AceTetra fights with a GSC, lets a centaur attack twice, dies
15:17 < cbus> spads, I am rubber you are glue
15:17 < CIA-81> by messagewindow * r01864d170620 /crawl-ref/ (268 files in 24 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into messagewindow
15:18 < AceTetra> what was that about?
15:18 < AceTetra> cani get a 5-line message window now?
15:18 < CIA-81> by messagewindow * r59eebf4486c5 /crawl-ref/source/ (cio.cc cio.h menu.cc travel.cc): Remove maxcol parameter from cancelable_get_line.
15:19 < CIA-81> by messagewindow * rc41633330722 /crawl-ref/source/ (message.h notes.cc): Use msgwin_get_line for note taking.
15:19 < CIA-81> by messagewindow * r83ab3b51332b /crawl-ref/source/ (message.cc message.h): Add msgwin_get_line.
15:19 < CIA-81> by messagewindow * r1a45c20c828d /crawl-ref/source/message.h: Copy cancelable_get_line_autohist to msgwin_get_line.
15:19 < CIA-81> by messagewindow * rcff89ad3eefb /crawl-ref/source/luaterp.cc: Convert luaterp to use msgwin_get_line.
15:19 < CIA-81> by messagewindow * ra5c9ad488231 /crawl-ref/source/message.cc: Flush old message in msgwin_get_line.
15:19 < CIA-81> by messagewindow * r716d7984728d /crawl-ref/source/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into messagewindow
15:19 -!- purge [n=IceChat7@d192-24-82-173.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined ##crawl-dev
15:24 <+by> !tell due You may want to try out branch messagewindow for more pleasant luaterp behaviour.
15:24 < Henzell> by: OK, I'll let due know.
15:25 < cbus> can you add items from a shop to the shopping list btw?
15:25 < Ashenzari> fixed angel, allowed for dynamic weapon. (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=463) by Porkchop
15:26 <+by> yes, @ key I think
15:26 < cbus> ahh nice
15:26 <+by> AceTetra: you've been able to have a five-line messagewindow for quite a while, I think?
15:27 <+by> or was it just change from 7 to 6?
15:27 < AceTetra> by: i tested and it failed in like August, but i'd better test again
15:28 <+by> I believe you filed feature requests, and I implemented those partially?
15:28 < AceTetra> oh, i didn't check anything i might have filed
15:29 < AceTetra> if you could give links i might be able to test better
15:30 <+by> I would have to search the tracker just the same
15:30 < AceTetra> i do remember something about changing from 7 to 6, but i forgot the verbiage
15:31 < AceTetra> anyway, 19+6<24, so i'm still investigating
15:32 <+by> commit 6858bd
15:32 <+by> you should be able to specify msg_min_height = 5 in options
15:33 < AceTetra> oh, i was using msg_max_height
15:33 < AceTetra> testing now though
15:40 < AceTetra> hmm no, it doesn't work. the viewport is still 17 tall
15:40 < AceTetra> there's just 2 unused lines
15:45 <+by> works for me with msg_min_height = msg_max_height = 5
15:48 < CIA-81> kilobyte * r7db34a316920 /crawl-ref/source/mon-project.cc: Try multiple times to place an orb, there are claims it can randomly fail.
15:49 <+by> this novel-like comments in try_pathfind are scary
15:49 < AceTetra> by: i tried that and it didn't do anything
16:01 -!- sorear_ [n=stefan@ip72-220-237-239.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
16:01 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v sorear_] by ChanServ
16:13 -!- sorear [n=stefan@ip72-220-237-239.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:13 -!- Cryp71c [n=Cryp71c@173-162-21-124-Nashville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
16:30 -!- eith [n=eith@86-40-245-49-dynamic.b-ras2.lmk.limerick.eircom.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
16:45 <+by> what would be a good property to check to get monsters to cut down plants? this should include plants and fungi, but not butterflies or oklob plants or statues
16:46 <+by> mons_is_stationary and zero xp?
16:47 < cbus> -An alligator snapping turtle skeleton comes into view.
16:47 < cbus> longer names please
16:48 < cbus> @?? alligator snapping turtle skeleton
16:48 < Gretell> alligator snapping turtle skeleton (z) | Speed: 6 | HD: 16 | Health: 97-125 | AC/EV: 13/0 | Damage: 46 | Flags: undead, evil | Res: magic(0), cold++, poison | XP: 761.
16:48 < cbus> only z
16:49 -!- ortoslon [n=chatzill@host-89-31-115-253.academ.org] has joined ##crawl-dev
16:52 -!- ogaz [n=chatzill@adsl-76-198-70-175.dsl.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
17:02 -!- eith [n=eith@86-40-245-49-dynamic.b-ras2.lmk.limerick.eircom.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"]
17:03 -!- eith [n=eith@86-40-245-49-dynamic.b-ras2.lmk.limerick.eircom.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
17:07 -!- GeoBSD [n=geobsd@lns-bzn-52-82-65-126-59.adsl.proxad.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
17:11 < Cryp71c> by, that sounds good to me, I can't think of anything which might inadvertently fall into those 2 categories that isn't a plant, except for ballistocymetes..idk if they give any xp
17:13 < GeoBSD> hi, i updated git and now i can't play my saved games : "*.sav is invalid. Major version mismatch : 15 (want 16)" how to fix ?
17:14 < syllogism> downgrade or delete saves
17:14 < syllogism> they aren't compatible
17:14 < GeoBSD> not fun
17:14 < TGW> does shapeshifter exp depend on the form?
17:14 -!- LordSloth [n=ls@adsl-64-182-120.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
17:15 < syllogism> just downgrade
17:15 < LordSloth> Does anyone know how to add a new page to the brainstorming section of the wiki?
17:15 < TGW> because that seems problematic
17:15 < TGW> lordsloth: you need permission
17:15 < LordSloth> Would someone be willing to add a jewellery page to the items index?
17:15 < LordSloth> Sorry, rings
17:16 < LordSloth> There's already amulets
17:16 < TGW> lordslot: the list of people with wiki permission is something like "devs, napkin, eronarn, vandal"
17:17 < GeoBSD> do you know what are the changes in the format syllogism ?
17:17 < LordSloth> I could do something like email, but I'll just leave the request here in IRC and take care of things later. I've still got my online notebook.
17:20 < LordSloth> The ring of regeneration is currently auto identifying, right?
17:20 < CIA-81> by * r7c2d3651258c /crawl-ref/source/ (mon-util.cc mon-util.h): mons_is_firewood: Monsters that other monsters may cut through.
17:20 < CIA-81> by * r4080444e4626 /crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Allow monsters to cut through plants.
17:21 < TGW> yes
17:21 < LordSloth> Thanks. I'm trying to come up with some ring ideas, particulary ones that may be cursed, not autoid, and found at low levels, not with all negative consequences.
17:21 <+by> LordSloth: done
17:21 < LordSloth> Thanks
17:22 < LordSloth> I'll put it up there once I get my second or third idea together.
17:22 < Cryp71c> Is anyone familiar with the player_can_hear function in stuff.cc? I was checking a bug report and would've thought that that particular function would check distance so that you wouldn't get level-wide messages if you were REALLY far away....and it doesn't.
17:22 <+by> it's probably just whether the player is capable of hearing?
17:22 < Cryp71c> by, yeah, it checks if silenced and whatnot.
17:24 < Cryp71c> But that seems very..incomplete.
17:25 < Cryp71c> Unless, obviously, the function is used extensively without the distance check intentionally
17:25 < LordSloth> by: @!page?
17:25 < LordSloth> Are the parts in ^comments?
17:26 < Napkin> LordSloth, go to the mantis tracker and create an issue requesting permissions in the "WIKI" project (selectable at the top right)
17:26 <+by> LordSloth: those were automatically filled int
17:26 < LordSloth> Got it, napkin
17:26 <+by> LordSloth: I'd suggest just copying from the amulets page
17:27 < LordSloth> will do before noon. Thanks, by.
17:28 <+by> Cryp71c: we could give player_can_hear a second argument "noise" that defaults to LOS radius?
17:29 < Cryp71c> by, yeah that's what I was thinking, except we would have to set the default to level wide, otherwise every other use of player_can_hear would need to be recoded.
17:29 < Cryp71c> Since level-wide seems to (strangely) be the default
17:30 < Cryp71c> I'll take care of it, i havn't worked on much recently anyways
17:32 <+by> probably, those calls should be integrated with noisy somehow; on the other hand, I fear for stealth play if the noise stuff is done more "realistically"
17:32 < Cryp71c> by, except I'm thinking instead of LOS, something like 20ish tiles away
17:33 <+by> yes, that's probably reasonable
17:34 < LordSloth> by: does this look okay for a start? I'll work on it a bit more over the day, I hope
17:35 < LordSloth> Hang on, I feel stupid
17:35 < LordSloth> http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:item:template
17:35 < LordSloth> I can't imagine this link points ot the right place, but ..
17:36 < LordSloth> Ah, got the name wrong somehow.
17:37 <+by> it seems you edited dcss:brainstorm:item:template instead
17:37 < TGW> I feel that the restriction on cursed equipment with regards to forms is extremely unnecessary
17:37 < LordSloth> Sorry.
17:38 < TGW> I'm assuming it's a relic from when melding didn't exist
17:38 < LordSloth> Reverted
17:38 < TGW> but it doesn't seem to do anything but penalise unlucky transmuters at XL 3-5
17:38 < TGW> 3-4 even
17:40 < LordSloth> there, right page now.
17:40 < TGW> while it may somewhat degrade the importance of curses, I think it's fair to allow cursed equipment to melf
17:40 < TGW> meld*
17:42 < Cryp71c> by, is there anything inherently *wrong* with me including coord.cc in stuff.cc so I can use distance_from ?
17:46 < Ashenzari> Requesting wiki permissions (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=464) by LordSloth
17:47 < Cryp71c> nevermind. scope.
17:59 <+by> TGW: removing the restriction sounds good to me
17:59 < TGW> cool
18:00 < TGW> will put that on my list of underhanded transmuter buffs, right below amphibious ice form
18:02 -!- dpeg [n=dpeg@dis.angband.pl] has joined ##crawl-dev
18:02 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+o dpeg] by ChanServ
18:02 <@dpeg> cheers
18:02 < Henzell> dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
18:02 <@dpeg> !messages
18:02 < Henzell> (1/2) due said (16h 22m 50s ago): Can you link to the CDO blog from the main page of crawl-ref.sourceforge.net? A friend of mine who follows DCSS development thought the blog was cool, but that it might be a good idea to link it from the "project home", as it were.
18:02 <@dpeg> !messages
18:02 < Henzell> (1/1) purge said (13h 26m 15s ago): can you ask jpeg to look at http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=449 and post comments about the video i uploaded
18:02 <@dpeg> can you here, can you there :)
18:03 < syllogism> dpeg: I made a handy spreadsheet that calculates all the new ev/ac/spell failure stuff
18:04 <@dpeg> syllogism: new vs old?
18:04 <@dpeg> syllogism: and many thanks! Where is it?
18:04 < syllogism> that too, though I couldn't get the old ev formula to match ingame results so I hid it :P
18:04 <@dpeg> hehe
18:04 <@dpeg> syllogism: did you see Sam's comments on the old EV formula?
18:05 < syllogism> re: aevp, yes
18:05 <@dpeg> syllogism: and what's your very own opinion about the changes? Correct direction? Too far, not far enough?
18:06 < syllogism> where's that old formula even used
18:06 <@dpeg> !tell due I think Johanna did this already? She has an uncanny ability to do the things mentioned elsewhere.
18:06 < Henzell> dpeg: OK, I'll let due know.
18:07 < syllogism> I don't have an opinion yet, it's better than the old one but there may be some issues
18:07 < syllogism> race size doesn't seem to have much effect
18:07 < syllogism> that's not a big deal assuming small races also have high dex
18:08 <@dpeg> syllogism: bring them up somewhere, please (wiki is good)
18:08 < syllogism> do you have open office, excel or something
18:11 <@dpeg> open office
18:11 <@dpeg> can you send it by mail?
18:11 < syllogism> yes
18:11 < syllogism> I don't actually have your mail, I think
18:12 < Cryp71c> does you.get_los() return an integer representing the player LOS radius?
18:12 <+by> grep get_los actor.h player.h
18:12 <+by> (and no)
18:13 < Cryp71c> by, yeah i was looking through the actor and player stuff
18:13 <@dpeg> syllogism: got my address?
18:13 < syllogism> yes
18:13 <@dpeg> I've got to supervise an exam. Back in an hour.
18:36 < cbus>  The sea snake shaped shifter is moderately wounded.
18:36 < cbus> on land?
18:38 < Cryp71c> cbus, what's wrong with that?
18:44 -!- ortoslon [n=chatzill@host-89-31-115-253.academ.org] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]"]
18:45 -!- ortoslon [n=chatzill@host-89-31-115-253.academ.org] has joined ##crawl-dev
18:46 < TGW> (sea snakes are not aquatic)
18:46 -!- ortoslon [n=chatzill@host-89-31-115-253.academ.org] has quit [Broken pipe]
18:46 -!- ortoslon [n=chatzill@host-89-31-115-253.academ.org] has joined ##crawl-dev
18:49 -!- ortoslon [n=chatzill@host-89-31-115-253.academ.org] has quit [Client Quit]
18:53 -!- by [n=rob@g225122139.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
19:01 < TGW> spider form probably shouldn't make the player brown
19:07 <@dpeg> back
19:08 < Napkin> wb!
19:12 < Cryp71c> What to do with bug reports which should be closed but havn't been? Leave them be or can I report them to someone? (I like to see the bug list get shorter and cleaner)
19:13 <@dpeg> Cryp71c: can send a mail to me, for example
19:14 < Cryp71c> dpeg, k..didn't know if anyone with access to close bugs would get aggrivated at me sending em to them. !msg or email?
19:16 <@dpeg> when I am here and active, msg is good
19:18 < Cryp71c> !msg dpeg  Potentially closable bug report : http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=416
19:19 < Cryp71c> !tell dpeg  Potentially closable bug report : http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=416
19:19 < Henzell> Cryp71c: OK, I'll let dpeg know.
19:19 < Cryp71c> there we go
19:20 <@dpeg> already closed :)
19:20 < Henzell> dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
19:22 -!- ortoslon [n=zoob@host-89-31-115-253.academ.org] has joined ##crawl-dev
19:22 -!- ortoslon [n=zoob@host-89-31-115-253.academ.org] has left ##crawl-dev ["Leaving."]
19:25 < TGW> either that or we can change it to cockroach form
19:29 < Cryp71c> Where are the skills / items at for starting packages?
19:30 -!- Spads [n=spacehob@unaffiliated/spads] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
19:32 < Cryp71c> !tell dpeg Potentially closable bug report : http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=61
19:32 < Henzell> Cryp71c: OK, I'll let dpeg know.
19:36 -!- MarvinPA [n=marvin@cpc2-aztw19-0-0-cust376.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit []
19:37 <@dpeg> damn
19:37 < Henzell> dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
19:39 <@dpeg> Cryp71c: no, 61 is a good idea
19:39 < CIA-81> j-p-e-g * r847e2272f889 /crawl-ref/ (settings/dvorak_command_keys.txt source/tilereg.cc): Handle reassigned keys correctly for the Tiles version's mouse commands.
19:39 < Cryp71c> ah, k.
19:39 < CIA-81> j-p-e-g * r0d339bb7a4f1 /crawl-ref/source/tilereg.cc: Fix a debugging statement.
19:40 < CIA-81> j-p-e-g * r9855f968a64d /crawl-ref/source/tilereg.cc: Fix adjacent Ctrl-clicks having no effect (trap disarming, opening doors).
19:40 < CIA-81> j-p-e-g * r194ed9dabfe4 /crawl-ref/source/tilereg.cc: Remove shift-click running as travel-by-mouseclick is much superior.
19:40 < CIA-81> j-p-e-g * rdd710175cac0 /crawl-ref/source/ (command.cc macro.cc macro.h tilereg.cc): Move insert_commands() methods into macro.cc.
19:40 < CIA-81> j-p-e-g * rbd992184d295 /crawl-ref/source/ (macro.cc macro.h tilereg.cc): Display real keys for commands in the Tiles' tooltip.
19:40 < CIA-81> j-p-e-g * r9c98e9264220 /crawl-ref/source/ (chardump.cc macro.cc macro.h): Comment out list_all_commands and remove its call from chardump.cc.
19:40 < CIA-81> j-p-e-g * r1d8b9f4c3898 /crawl-ref/source/ (command.cc macro.cc macro.h tilereg.cc tutorial.cc): First steps to make tutorial messages respect key bindings.
19:40 < CIA-81> j-p-e-g * r07b89cf28400 /crawl-ref/source/message.cc: Also replace the tutorial's Ctrl-P reminder with the appropriate key.
19:40 < Cryp71c> lo
19:40 < Cryp71c> lol*
19:41 < Cryp71c> dpeg, sorry...I've grepped quite a bit and havn't found it, where are starting packages located?
19:41 -!- by [n=rob@g225108062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined ##crawl-dev
19:41 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v by] by ChanServ
19:42 < Cryp71c> !tell dpeg Closable (Already Implemented) : http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=175
19:42 < Henzell> Cryp71c: OK, I'll let dpeg know.
19:42 <@dpeg> Cryp71c: don't have to !tell me when I'm here :)
19:42 < Henzell> dpeg: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them.
19:42 <@dpeg> Cryp71c: yellow snake = anaconda in trunk?
19:43 < Cryp71c> dpeg, I presumed so, I've never run into yellow snake, but I've encountered anacondas on a regular basis.
19:43 < syllogism> gray snake
19:43 < Cryp71c> furthermore, those anacondas were constricting me
19:43 <@elly> shy is jpeg not here?
19:45 < Napkin> hey - again nobody told me of some exploit in the wiki
19:45 < Napkin> was nobody using it today :-O
19:46 <@elly> er, s/s/w/
19:46 < Napkin> Hi Elly!
19:47 < Napkin> good questions
19:47  * Napkin pokes dpeg *
19:49 < Napkin> dpeg: XL20, 1 rune from Snake5, died to hydra simulacrums in Swamp :)
19:50 <@dpeg> elly: jpeg is never here :)
19:50 <@elly> yes; why not?
19:50 <@dpeg> elly: she doesn't like irc
19:50 <@elly> aw
19:50 < TGW> check your messages, you're driving me crazy
19:50 <@elly> we aren't scary!
19:50 <@dpeg> Napkin: nice!
19:50 <@dpeg> syllogism: so not anaconda yet? (Thanks for ods, too.)
19:51 <@dpeg> elly: well, I can understand it. It is an insane timesink :)
19:51 <@elly> heh :P
19:51  * elly has evolved the ability to ignore IRC when necessary
19:51 <@dpeg> Napkin: wait, there was abuse on CDO?
19:51 <@dpeg> elly: yes, for example I almost never bother with ##crawl these days.
19:52 <@elly> the only reason I am in ##crawl is because I have ops there and am keeping order
19:52 < Napkin> No, there probably wasn't
19:52 < Napkin> but it would be nice if people using the wiki more often than me would beep me when there is a "Danger, cross-scripting bug found - please upgrade!!!" warning at the top of every wiki page ;)
19:53 <@dpeg> elly: but is there much to do? I don't know how uncivilised ##crawl became in my absence, though I heard bad stories. "Almost as bad as #nethack", for example :)
19:53 <@dpeg> Napkin: I don't even know what the bug is.
19:54 <@elly> dpeg: there have been a lot of annoying bots over the past few days :( it's usually okay
19:54 <@elly> I am there so I have scrollback when someone like sorear asks for op attention there
19:54 < Napkin> doesn't matter if you know exactly about the bug.. I'm just saying - if there is a bright warning, it would be cool if someone would inform me
19:54 < Napkin> I op'ed elly
19:54 <@elly> yes you did :P
19:55  * elly wants permanent ops now! :P
19:55 < Napkin> of course someone complain about permanent ops :D
19:55 < syllogism> do you have to have an admin access to see it
19:55 < syllogism> I didn't see any bright warnings :P
19:55 < Napkin> and i think ##crawl has become a harsh place sometimes
19:55 < Napkin> good, syllogism :-P
19:56 < Napkin> then at least _something_ is working ;>
19:56 < Napkin> :D
19:58 <@dpeg> Napkin: well, the only time I noted something's odd was that weird new user (which I noted because I get all the emails). And you know I reacted to that, even if slow.
19:58 -!- by [n=rob@g225108062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
19:58 < TGW> napkin, I think you should take a look at my game
19:59 < Napkin> me?
19:59 < TGW> ok, maybe not you... reconnection solved it
19:59 < TGW> The spell fizzles. (x35)
19:59 < TGW> You don't have enough magic to cast that spell. (x32230)
20:00 < Napkin> did you fall asleep on your keyboard?
20:00 < TGW> no
20:00 < Napkin> or if your cat playing too?
20:00 < TGW> some loop or something
20:00 < Napkin> *is
20:00 < Napkin> ?V ?
20:02 < Napkin> oh - it's not about the Lua error: Can't find "lua/eat.lua" - it's about the loop?
20:02 < Napkin> well - nothing I can do... I think
20:02 <@dpeg> oh, Kenkus can carry so little
20:02 < Napkin> what terminal are you using?
20:02 <@dpeg> I wonder who is responsible for that
20:03 < Napkin> low strength is really harsh now..
20:03 < TGW> napkin, putty
20:03 < TGW> eat.lua has been deceased for a while
20:03 <@dpeg> Napkin: that's good!
20:04 < Napkin> isn't it a bit too harsh?
20:04 < Napkin> and melee chars can carry half the dungeon with them :D
20:04 < Napkin> branches even! ;)
20:09 <@dpeg> no, I don't think it's too harsh :)
20:09 < Napkin> damn...
20:09 < Napkin> it was worth a try
20:10 < Napkin> but reminds me of the 350 +7 bolts Eifeltrampel had in his last game :>
20:10 < Napkin> carrying with him!
20:11 -!- timecircuits [n=Adium@pool-71-246-66-203.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has left ##crawl-dev []
20:12 <@dpeg> Napkin: priorities!
20:12 <@dpeg> if you skip on lunch, you can carry a few more bolts :P
20:12 < Napkin> hehehe
20:16 -!- GeoBSD [n=geobsd@lns-bzn-52-82-65-126-59.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:22 < Ashenzari> Polyphemus with yak cloak and beard (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=465) by Porkchop
20:28 < Eronarn> g'morning
20:29 <@dpeg> Hi
20:40 < Napkin> Hey Eronarn 
20:40 -!- nrook [n=nrook@ip68-14-16-167.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
20:40 < TGW> FR: liposuction trap
20:41 < cbus> what stuff are needed for shoals?
20:41 < syllogism> 200+ hp
20:41 < cbus> doh, I'm at 191
20:41 < syllogism> :P
20:41 < TGW> you could probably make it with 102
20:42 < TGW> 192*
20:42 < syllogism> wand of flame are useful as a melee type for breaking mesmerization
20:43 < cbus> hmm, might try later, first some go
20:56 -!- henryci [n=henry@c-71-232-165-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
20:59 <@dpeg> oh, Growth + Evolution <3
21:00 < Napkin> guys - monsters.txt should have 1 descriptive line per entry, right?
21:01 < Napkin> (apart from those conditional lines like "He smells terribly")
21:03 < TGW> sorear_ here?
21:03 <@dpeg> Napkin: no, could (and should) be more.
21:03 < Napkin> shit
21:04 < Napkin> most only had one line when I checked
21:04 < Napkin> now Eifeltrampel is stumbling over a few that have more
21:04 <@dpeg> well, we used to have only one, but that wasn't good
21:04 <@dpeg> some are better already
21:04 < Napkin> then I need to adjust the parsing
21:05 <@dpeg> and Vandal volunteered to add more descriptions
21:05 <@dpeg> ideally, descriptions should say something about the *monster in Crawl*
21:05 < Napkin> probably need to use perl then.. *sigh*
21:05 <@dpeg> what's up?
21:05 <@dpeg> Is this a problem?
21:05 <@dpeg> Ah, with the new, cool monster browser?
21:05 < Napkin> nono, don't worry
21:06 < Napkin> it'll just take some time
21:06 < Napkin> i already have an idea how to do it :)
21:06 < Napkin> it's just... perl!
21:07 < Napkin> a language for people that got bored by syntax ;>
21:08 < nrook> dpeg: Have you considered just having x% of incoming xp devoted to "passive" skills like armour?
21:09 <@dpeg> Napkin: I fully agree. Even I can understand Perl, a clear indicator that a lot is wrong with that language.
21:09 < Napkin> hehehe
21:09 <@dpeg> nrook: hm, I don't think that's the best approach.
21:09 <@dpeg> I do think that Armour and Dodging should train differently...
21:11 < nrook> dpeg: It's hard to think of an alternative, though; the obvious "train on getting hit" seems to lead inevitably to goofy scumming issues.
21:12 <@dpeg> no, "train on hit" can be done well
21:12 -!- by [n=rob@g225108062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined ##crawl-dev
21:12 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v by] by ChanServ
21:13 <@dpeg> well, actually, it should be "train on not getting hurt" (Armour) and "not getting hit" (Dodging), with chances for training the closer the effect is
21:13 <@dpeg> so that rats don't help any
21:13 <@dpeg> and in return, train faster
21:17 < Eronarn> I like the passive approach, but then use weightings based on what your combat has been like
21:17 <@dpeg> passive training is not good, imo
21:17 <@dpeg> anything with "waiting" isn't
21:18 -!- Mu_ [i=Mu@cpc14-live9-0-0-cust109.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place."]
21:19 < Eronarn> dpeg: no, not waiting - just not actively trained directly (rather, one or the other always trains in combat, but the proportion of the training depends on which is being used more, and amount of training is tied to amount of incoming XP rather than amount of times you've been getting hit)
21:21 <@dpeg> well, having the xp pool work slightly backwards in time will hopefully help mitigate victory dancing anyway
21:21 < syllogism> wait what
21:21 < AceTetra> yeah huh
21:22 < Eronarn> thirded huh
21:22 < Eronarn> when did that get changed
21:22 < syllogism> it didn't
21:24 <@dpeg> syllogism: what didn't?
21:24 < syllogism> whatever the plan for xp pool is
21:24 < syllogism> it didn't get implemented yet that is
21:24 <@dpeg> syllogism: more context please -- what did I get wrong?
21:24 < syllogism> or did it?
21:25 <@dpeg> no idea what we're talking about :)
21:25 < syllogism> you were talking about "the xp pool working slightly backwards in time"
21:26 < AceTetra> victory dancing is very silly indeed, so i'm interested in anything anti-victory-dancing
21:26 < AceTetra> it's the least pleasant part of my early game
21:26 <@dpeg> syllogism: that's a plan only
21:26 < syllogism> yes, which is what I'm saying
21:26 <@dpeg> AceTetra: it's not so easy to get it right
21:26 < syllogism> Eronarn thought it was already in
21:26 <@dpeg> syllogism: oh, I never intended it.... oh
21:27 < AceTetra> dpeg: exactly, i have no idea what would be better
21:27 <@dpeg> AceTetra: well, there are some ideas. Check the wiki.
21:28 -!- Twinge-- [n=user@97-124-155-162.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
21:29 -!- hashc [n=hash@adsl-68-76-123-64.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
21:32 < AceTetra> by wiki, you mean http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?title=CrawlWiki right?
21:32 < syllogism> no
21:32 < AceTetra> thought so
21:32 < syllogism> http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:experimental_skill_pool_changes
21:33 -!- AceTetra changed the topic of ##crawl-dev to: DCSS development channel! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | <@dpeg> "Look, Ceasar, I bought a new broom." |Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php
21:33 < AceTetra> ugh stupid keyboard, i wanted a space
21:33 -!- AceTetra changed the topic of ##crawl-dev to: DCSS development channel! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | <@dpeg> "Look, Ceasar, I bought a new broom." | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php
21:35 < AceTetra> oh wait, the funny quote goes at the end huh
21:36 < Napkin> and leave out doku.php
21:36 -!- AceTetra changed the topic of ##crawl-dev to: DCSS development channel! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl.| Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/ | <@dpeg> "Look, Ceasar, I bought a new broom."
21:36 < Napkin> thanks :)
21:36 < AceTetra> thanks for saying that before i changed the topic again :P
21:37 < AceTetra> ugh trivial formatting. i can never be satisfied.
21:37 -!- AceTetra changed the topic of ##crawl-dev to: DCSS development channel! | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki/ | <@dpeg> "Look, Ceasar, I bought a new broom."
21:45 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-166-57.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [No route to host]
21:54 -!- hashc [n=hash@adsl-68-76-123-64.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
21:55 -!- Kyrris [n=1@c-67-186-34-100.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
21:56 < TGW> is there any legit use for alter self?
21:57 < Kyrris> Mutating.
21:58 < AceTetra> legit?!
21:58 < AceTetra> i think if it's in the source, it's legit
21:58 < AceTetra> Adeon's rng prediction was legit
21:59 < AceTetra> also, yeah, alter self is meant for mutating randomly
22:02 <@dpeg> TGW: yes, grinding for a good mutation set. AS will definitely change.
22:02 < TGW> I mean
22:02 < TGW> is there any way to use AS that isn't scumming
22:03 < TGW> p'raps it should take some MHP or something
22:03 < TGW> but give better sets
22:03 -!- syllogism [i=syllogis@85-131-29-195.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
22:03 <@dpeg> this is my first caster who made good use of Guardian Spirit
22:03 <@dpeg> TGW: sure, AS can be modified
22:04 < TGW> dpeg: my dgtm appreciated it somewhat
22:04 < TGW> cast ice form before combat (it lasts freaking forever) and hey, 20 free hp
22:05 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-174-93.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
22:07 < Kyrris> dpeg: Summoners can get a lot of mileage out of GS, too, since they can preload all their combat ability.
22:07 < Kyrris> It's really a nice effect, for the playstyles that it doesn't lead to the certain death of.
22:07 <@dpeg> Kyrris: yes. I think it's a nice tactical option.
22:08 < Eronarn> TGW: what i want it to do: cast in battle, it gives you a set of related and useful mutations, but may include negative ones (like *RAGE). when it wears off the mutations fade away but have a chance to stick as permanent ones
22:09 < Kyrris> Eronarn: Something like a Battle Form spell?
22:09 < Eronarn> Kyrris: yes
22:09 < Kyrris> But randomized, so as to differentiate it from the actual forms.
22:09 < Eronarn> right
22:09 < Eronarn> ok, time to go shopping
22:10 < Kyrris> You'd need to create a list, like the DS list, for it to draw from.
22:10 < Kyrris> Because Random Good just means scales.
22:10 <@dpeg> gotta go, too
22:10 -!- dpeg [n=dpeg@dis.angband.pl] has quit ["bye"]
22:11 <+by> better fix "random good" by weighting the mutations appropriately
22:12 < Kyrris> Oooooor.... trimming the number of scales colors be just having them draw on ?random's glow list.
22:12 < Kyrris> You are almost completely covered by shining umber scales.
22:12 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-174-93.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
22:13 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-160-179.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
22:16 < TGW> are there more mutations like the poison stinger for dr tails?
22:16 < TGW> 'cause that's really cool
22:22 < Kyrris> Dr tails, and Naga breathclouds.
22:22 -!- Twinge-- [n=user@97-124-155-162.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [No route to host]
22:23 < TGW> s'there already an FR for apportation + stack behavior?
22:23 < TGW> because it's a bit ridiculous at the moment
22:28 < Cryp71c> Where can you find the assignments for starting gear?
22:30 < TGW> ??start
22:30 < Henzell> I don't have a page labeled start in my learndb.
22:30 < TGW> there was a good spoiler somewhere
22:30 < TGW> not sure
22:30 < TGW> ??learndb
22:30 < Henzell> learndb[1/1]: Try ??howtousethelearndb. A html page of learndb entries is at http://crawl.akrasiac.org/learndb.html
22:31 < TGW> ??hp
22:31 < Henzell> hp[1/2]: see http://www.normalesup.org/~grasland/Crawl/crawlSS_052_start.txt for spoilers. Fighting bonus = skill*xl/5
22:34 < Napkin> omg, that auto-explore but is most annoying in shoals
22:39 < Napkin> *auto-explore bug with plants
22:43 < Kyrris> What's this bug?
22:46 < Napkin> that it stops at plants
22:46 < TGW> have you seen new swamp?
22:46 < TGW> it's great
22:46 < Napkin> on the other hand it does, it it's a plant in a walkway
22:47 < Kyrris> It also refuses to walk around neutral monsters.
22:48 < Kyrris> That's pretty annoying.
22:48 < Kyrris> Or maybe only butterflies.
22:50 < LordSloth> TGW: swamp is back in trunk now?
22:50 < TGW> yes
22:50 < TGW> you get 2 of swamp, snake, shoals
22:50 < LordSloth> So, I'm gonna start a merfolker
22:50 < LordSloth> Transmuters are ogres, in my hart.
22:51 < AceTetra> oh, the 2-of-3 idea is in now? that's cool
22:51 < LordSloth> I'm not especially excited by crusader, but i've played one too many ice lementalists...
22:52 < LordSloth> venom mage, stalker, enchanter, someting completely diff
22:52 < LordSloth> stalker
22:52 < TGW> EE
22:53 < LordSloth> Venom mage merfolk hybridise easy enough. I'll have to figure out what I'm doing with a stalker.
22:53 < LordSloth> should be interesting
22:53 < LordSloth> !lg * char=mfst ktyp=winning
22:53 < Henzell> 1. 78291 the Acrobat (L27 MfSt), worshipper of Zin, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2008-11-16, with 864707 points after 116352 turns and 5:47:09.
22:54 < LordSloth> One?
22:54 < LordSloth> !lg * char=mfst xl>10 s=ktyp
22:54 < Henzell> 27 games for * (char=mfst xl>10): 16x mon, 9x beam, 1x quitting, 1x winning
22:54 < LordSloth> Not too popular
22:54 < LordSloth> My mission: Find a use for project noise
22:55 < LordSloth> Projected Noise is a level 2 spell?!
22:55 < nrook> I bet you could use project noise to ninja some runes
22:55 < AceTetra> LordSloth: yeah, i find more uses for stuff that doesn't make noise
22:56 < AceTetra> i carry stones just to wake up monsters silently
22:56 < LordSloth> How loud is project noise?
22:56 < AceTetra> LordSloth: an integer between 1 and 50
22:56 < LordSloth> practically speaking?
22:56 < AceTetra> there are a lot of noisy things, and it's very difficult to list them
22:56 < LordSloth> Softer than a shout, roughly the same, or loud as lightning
22:56 < ogaz> LordSloth: this one time, I needed to victory dance ench and I didn't have corona or confusing touch. That's the only time I found a use for projected noise
22:56 < AceTetra> so, practically, i have no fucking clue
22:57 < LordSloth> really, fo rme there are only three states
22:57 < AceTetra> i tried to source dive sounds and i regret it
22:57 < LordSloth> Quiet, shout, and omygod the jellies are coming
22:57 < AceTetra> total clusterfuck
22:58 < Cryp71c> determining sounds for anything which uses a ZAP_ is easy, they're grouped together in one of the header files, iirc...but yeah, for missiles, who knows.
22:58 < AceTetra> basically, all noisy stuff calls some subroutine with an integer expressing how noisy it is
22:58 < AceTetra> beyond that, i had no idea how to understand any of it
22:59 < AceTetra> someone else please write a guide to crawl noise
23:00 < AceTetra> also, change all the verbiage to 'sound' instead of 'noise'
23:01 <+by> LordSloth: projected noise makes noise with range 30
23:02 < AceTetra> see, i could read that it's a 30-intensity noise, but i don't know if that's round like LOS, or an absolute distance
23:03 < AceTetra> i stopped at exactly that point
23:03 <+by> you just need to read noisy(): it's LOS-like distance I think
23:04 < AceTetra> oh, which file was that in again? windows won't search .cc files for some stupid reason
23:05 < AceTetra> it's very silly indeed
23:06 < AceTetra> how do i search the source on windows anyway? is it all uploaded to a wiki or something?
23:14 -!- Twinge-- [n=user@97-124-160-118.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
23:14 -!- Kyrris [n=1@c-67-186-34-100.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:23 < TGW> I'm unclear as to why plants have rPois
23:27 -!- AceTetra [n=AceTetra@unaffiliated/cateater] has quit ["mIRC has gone mad. I must kill it."]
23:28 -!- AceTetra [n=AceTetra@97-126-73-66.tukw.qwest.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
23:30 -!- Twinge [n=user@97-124-160-179.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [No route to host]
23:32 -!- pointless_ [n=chatzill@ool-4576ec48.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
23:32 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v pointless_] by ChanServ
23:34 < Eronarn> TGW: some poisons work on both plants and animals, others do not
23:34 < Eronarn> i guess it is assumed that all poisons in crawl are animal-only ones
23:35 < Eronarn> (note that real life poisons also vary heavily by species: there is a classic example of a certain poison that kills fish, yet doesn't poison them enough to make them inedible)
23:38 < Ashenzari> Steel ammo description has duplicate "three" (http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=466) by minmay
23:44 -!- Kyrris [n=1@c-67-186-34-100.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
23:44 -!- neunon [n=neunon@unaffiliated/neunon] has joined ##crawl-dev
23:44 -!- mode/##crawl-dev [+v neunon] by ChanServ
23:48 < Cryp71c> AceTetra, you can use windows search to search the contents of a file, directory, etc.
23:51 < TGW> what does this channel think of removing octogon layouts for lair?
23:51 < TGW> they don't really look nice with the new layout
23:51 < AceTetra> Cryp71c: it refuses to search in .cc files though
23:52 < TGW> acetetra: make everything a .txt
23:52 < AceTetra> TGW: i always hate octagon levels
23:52 < AceTetra> ok, how do i automatically txtify the cc files?
23:52 < Kyrris> linux
23:53 < Cryp71c> TGW, lair can have octogon layouts?
23:53 < Kyrris> ;D
23:53 < AceTetra> not only do i not have a spare machine to run linux on, ubuntu wouldn't work with vbox at all
23:53 < AceTetra> yeah, never seen an octagon in lair
23:54 < AceTetra> i saw one on D:4 once, i think. it ended my game hard. :(
23:55 < AceTetra> it was a very shallow octagon with an orc band including two orc wizards. there was no way to get past that
23:56 < Eronarn> TGW: it'd be nice to have an octagon-like layout that was a forest clearing
23:56 < Eronarn> but the current octagon could go, yeah
23:57 < AceTetra> i would like octagons more if they didn't have all the < together
23:57 < AceTetra> i could have dived if i didn't have an orc wizard band monopolizing all the <
23:57 -!- Twinge-- is now known as Twinge
23:58 < TGW> well, it doesn't really work in new lair as well as the closer layouts
23:58 < TGW> it doesn't play differently at all
23:58 < TGW> the level ruiner doesn't remove corridors or anything, it just makes it look ugly
23:59 < TGW> the game should generate milestones for vaults
23:59 < cbus> do you need levi to finish shoals?